DEBATE: Was Arteta Right To Go For Referees?
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2023
- The Kick Off debates Arteta vs the referees
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It would be nice if they just admitted they massively messed up not getting the CL offside system. Just go get it now and stop messing it up every week on the one thing they should be getting right 100% of the time without any excuse.
The PGMOL can't be blamed for not having the automated offside when it was the clubs that (inexplicably) voted against it
Funnily enough they also can't admit they messed up when they got the decison right for the goal, the panel has now reviewed it and judged it to be correctly awarded, well done to the officials on the day
@@benjtho399 The so called independent panel are ex refs
@potentialswillrule tell me you haven't read the article without telling me you haven't read the article
It's refs and ex players
But sure you keep avoiding the information that's been put out there to help you deal with the fact that your teams title race is over 🤣 whatever helps you sleep at night
@@ajtct98 The clubs voted that way under advice from the PGMOL. Which means the PGMOL must have told them some good reasons not to. If I'm a club owner I'm going to listen to the supposed experts more than I am my own opinions.
"If the ball is touching the paint, its in play"
What happens when the ball stays in, but is in the air? Schrodingers balls
terrible point by that guy. camera on the line at all times as a requirement would surely be a better suggestion.
Should be like in volleyball where it's not out until it touches the ground outside the court
@@KobraTHFC I actually like that
@@antonyallen8025 would be kinda problematic in stadiums with big space around the field like West Ham's stadium though now that I think about it
I really wish people would actually watch when Arteta made the ‘mistakes’ statement.
Firstly it wasn’t directly in response to the Liverpool Spurs match(30/9/23). Infact it was a week later (6/10/23)
The statement he gave after that game was in support of Liverpool.
The ‘mistakes’ statement was in response to a question about ‘refs not being allowed to officiate games for teams that they’ve made recent mistakes’.
It was a loaded question because the reporter was insinuating corruption. Imagine the backlash if Arteta affirmed beliefs of Ref corruption! Which is why he answered with, “we all make mistakes”.
U can easily research this on this very app!
It’s a shame that RUclips ✌️‘influencers’ aren’t doing the proper research. Instead they pick lazy journalism & condemn with made up narratives. When in reality, Arteta did back Liverpool & answered a leading question, intended to make it seem as if he was accusing PGMOL of corruption.
Why would Arsenal make a club statement for another club?
Yeah but I genuinely don’t know why the clubs haven’t banded together behind closed doors to demand better refs considering the amount of money at stake. Some clubs have survived or bent relegated off the backs of horrible decisions costing clubs millions, costing teams potential trophies and a ton of money
That guy tried to make the worst point ever , he didn’t see arsenal do a statement for Liverpool 💀
Because arteta and arsenal fans have made it out (including in this video) that their crusade is against bad refereeing, so if they really believe in it, thats an ideal occasion to call it out.
The new Arsenal guy is a good addition, hope you bring him more to the panel
If you’re on about Bhavs no he isnt
@@technodiscofool no not the guy with the headband I'm talking about the other one
@@arcverson4963 thank god 😂 Bhavs is a helmet man
Other guy is very good though
VAR has turned the game into the frightful situation where we leave a game arguing about the decisions and not enjoying the football anymore, every little incident examined until they find a way to disallow a goal or award a red card, sad demise of a great game.
I respectfully disagree with that. We've been complaining about officiating long before VAR, hence the call for it in the first place. The problem is what the problem has always been and that's the officials themselves. The hierarchy of PGMOL needs an overhaul.
Yes. Every manager that’s consistently affected by the referees should be taking a stand.
He's literally pushed him UNDER the flight of the ball, hence where it lands on his back, without the push he heads it away.
Yet gabriel didnt appeal for it. Immediately, he points to the ball being out, and doesnt protest about the "foul"
logically any complaints would go in order of when they happened@@thedunyadoneya2628
People who keep saying Gabriel dove forward don't understand momentum. Gabi was in the position to get the ball perfectly all he needed to do was propel himself up and he wins it, as he was pushing himself up joelinton pushed him at the exact moment Gabriel was pushing up catching him mid-movement. So that's why it looks like he dove sort of under and forward.
People keep talking about Joelinton's arms, what about Gabriel’s legs. You try stooping and have someone push you in the back. What happens to your legs? At least one of them comes forwards to try and brace against the push, it’s literally limbic brain instinct, your legs don’t fly out behind you like Superman
@@jamesbothoms6009my brother from cum, please try and follow those exact instructions with 200+ pounds pushing you in the back.
Gabriel dived. Take some accountability for a poor performance.
@@jamesbothoms6009 yes, that’s usually true if you're standing upright with both your feet planted flat on the ground, if pushed one foot instinctively goes forward to stop yourself but thats not true in this situation Gabriel is already coming in with a very wide stride, and leaning a bit forward from slowing down that’s right before Joelinton contact is made. If you watch the clip again slowly you can see that at really no point does Gabi really have both feet planted down even the leap he takes starts from his right leg propelling himself up which even shows more of a reason that any little nudge on him would have sent him off course from making contact with the ball
@@alexanderhowcroft8779 i really don think it was a poor performance from both the defences at least like both did a good job in limiting the other teams from creating just look at the Xg. We only deserved a draw from that game which wouldn’t have been a bad result in my opinion Newcastle are very good, especially at home. Aside from this incident they only had 0.16 xG all game.
arsenal fan; honest i dont care about the goal im just confused how bruno didnt get a red before the half ended.
I'm still confused how Havertz was still on the pitch mate
@@dylanstevenson5737because there have been atleast 10 challenges worse than the Havertz one this season that have only received yellows? Was it reckless? Absolutely. Have players made contact with the studs (not the teailing leg as Havertz did) in a similar tackle and only received a yellow. Absolutely. Look at the Kovacic challenge on Odegard. If you honestly think the Havertz challenge is worse then you are absolutely delusional.
Read the referee panel review
No mistake on goal
Mistake on havertz red - unanimous decision
Mistake on bruno red - split decision
Arsenal fans should be thanking PGMOL the worst decision of the game was in your favour, but at least you know now so can stop crying yourself to sleep
@@iainwright2301 that's just not true is it
When it was Liverpool everyone laughed, told Klopp and fans to stop moaning and that Spurs game had WAY MORE significant moments but this one thing in the Newcastle game has caused this much outrage. People missed the chance to call for change after the Spurs game imo
Arteta calling it a disgrace while having one shot on target is not talked about enough
arteta backed klopp btw
He didn’t
@@CJ-ih4oh Yes, he did. Arteta on the Diaz offside goal:
"Everybody is trying to have a really clean and honest game but at the end you have to earn the right to win it and play in the conditions that the rules allow. When that doesn't happen it's extremely frustrating."
The Gunners manager, who'll lead Arsenal out in the Champions League on Tuesday against French side Lens, was also quizzed about VAR in general, with criticism more rife during the new season than ever. "We had some big discussions before the start of the season and everyone had the right intentions to improve the game and find the best way to take it forward," Arteta explained.
"When they explain all the processes of what they're trying to do it sounds really logical, but in the heat but when you're talking about millimetres and interpretation of other things like the frames of the camera it's very, very different. It's a shame that it's happening but at the moment we haven't got the right answers I think."
In practical terms, try jumping up right when someone's got 2 arms on your upper back, its impossible. That is as clear a foul as you'll ever see, not to mention he assists gordon with his ARMS.
English football fans have truly bottled it this season. If there was ever a time to demand or atleast push for a change in refereeing department it’s been this year.
There’s never been more pressure on referees due to controversial decisions week in week out but instead of demanding for a change, everyone made it personal or about the clubs and just laughed at one another. Embarrassing.
The dude in the addidas top didn't watch that game
The ref had lost the game well before that
Also it's happened to Newcastle lots of times
strangely always in games against teams in big 6 red aye
When played in real time and not just watching the freeze frame, Gabriel is already on the way down to flick the ball backwards and also remember that Gabriel did not even protest against the "shove". The only contentious part was the offside but even that wasnt conclusive so to stick to the on field decision is right because without VAR it would have been a goal anyway.
Inconsistency is the clear issue. This week we have seen hand balls given from 1 yard but not from 10 yards. Red cars given in games where the same tackle got yellows in others
Mate when has it ever been OK to put both of your hands on someone’s head?
With the offside, does the ball go forwards? Also, if you're an Arsenal fan who can mention Bruno but not Havertz then you've already lost the argument
When a situation MUCH worse happened to Liverpool and they stood firm to try and make a change they were met with “banter” from other fans and professionals, including Arteta.
Move on it happens🤷🏼♂️
I think we can all agree that most people hate VAR
Somebody tell the mix engineer to drop the highs on the mic cause damn on headphones the sibilance is too much
The difference between Bhavs and Jacob is hilarious, Bhavs is such a football twitter tactico, Jacob is a realist calling exactly what he sees. If you cannot see that Havertz is hampering Arsenal then you're beyond deluded.
I would have had sympathy for the goal if Havertz got a red card for the attempted murder on Longstaff.
I don't think Bryan knows how momentum works. You don't necessarily "go together" when you push a player. Joelinton mid air pushes gabriel with both his hands down. You don't "go with the player" in that circumstance.
why is the camera so zoomed in? not used to it...
I've just checked the result it was definitely a goal
the strength of joelinton doesnt matter. contact is contact as evident from city’s pen against arsenal at the emirates when they won 2-1
Read the referee panel review
No mistake on goal
Mistake on havertz red - unanimous decision
Mistake on bruno red - split decision
Arsenal fans should be thanking PGMOL the worst decision of the game was in your favour, but at least you know now so can stop crying yourself to sleep
@@benjtho399 ah yes, the well respected and trusted referee panel. get a grip
With the push both his feet were in the air. When you push someone u plant your feet. He was climbing on his back but the defender ducked! Not saying it wasn’t a foul. I think all shoves and climbing from behind should be punished but unfortunately this happens on every cross and corner!
Geordie going on about how Gabriel's gone forward and down to header away...how come he didn't get to head the ball away then?
Because Joelinton pushed him away with two hands - that's a foul anywhere on the pitch
Its doesnt matter if look natural or not , you cant say to a player sorry your leg git snapped it didnt look natueral until we seen your bone hanging out your leg. The fact if the matter is joelinton push gabi and handballs the ball whilst have his arms in a unatural position and now newcastle have had var go against them so swings and round abouts.
I completely agree with everything he said about referees and var get rid of it
I think the rules are just too hard to judge. The five people at the table couldn't agree if it was a foul. Not sure Europe is where to go after looking at the liverpool and United games this week. Just remove Var then we have a ref watch it once in real time. Will there still be issues 100% but at least it will be in real time and we can celebrate goals.
Gabriel was pushed and that should have been a foul, absolutely no subjectivity about that.
Who's the lad in the adidas?
Yeah that Toney offside cost Arsenal the title. Not the other games they completely bottled
Brian is actually getting me annoyed he is soo delusional when it’s about Newcastle if that was other way round would b a different story 😂😂😂😂
All what happened is enough to not give a goal
Funny how the foul on Gabriel for a pen isn't spoken about. He was held for 6 seconds and shouts to the ref before being pulled down
The point is Ref gave it a goal on field. and none of the 3 instances are clear enough for VAR to 100% say that Ref made an error and the goal should be disallowed . Just everyone discussing it for a week is proof of that. so they can't disallow it because they are not sure. that is fair.
if the ref would have disallowed the goal on field, vice-versa, VAR would not have had enough proof to make the goal stand. which also would have been fair.
just one of those things really, not that big of a controversy.
Then they shouldnt have a 5 minute var break
“Not a big controversy” as everyone is talking about it
@@kuraee they are talking about it because arsenal are whiny bitches and cant accept loosing a game.
But VAR has bigger decisions wrong every week.
Honestly I much prefer this new versions of the kick off.
CHECK COMPLETE: BOURNEMOUTH AND DORTMUND BOTH WANTED IT MORE
For Arteta he was spot on because of the points that were potentially not given to Arsenal for incomplete var or match officiating previously.
The bold man is making stuff up now
James is bang on Gabriel is literally begging for a free kick he does it constantly and usually gets away with it especially at home remember the United game?
The elephant in the room is Partey not in the side
Dan burn is an excellent actor
Let's be honest we weren't disappointed that var cost us a point but because we didn't do enough to win the game ... Newcastle were the better team... No need for this
everyone seems to ignore the offside?
You can say it is out because it is out of play and the Arsenal manager is right and spot on
Read the referee panel review
No mistake on goal
Mistake on havertz red - unanimous decision
Mistake on bruno red - split decision
Arsenal fans should be thanking PGMOL the worst decision of the game was in your favour, but at least you know now so can stop crying yourself to sleep
You can see the ball has gone out r you ok with the white head phones
The Man U one was and is less out of the filed than Arsenal is more out of
Forget whether it was a goal or not, we arent having this conversation if VAR did its job on Bruno elbow, simple....and ya, havertz is straight pony
these shenanigans didn't happen only to Arsenal...... VAR room has been "on fire" since the season started at multiple games and we're barely 1/3 of the season in...... but offcourse when Arsenal speaks about the issue, it will be "international news" :D didn't see anyone this outraged when other teams criticized those incompetent muppets...... not mentioning, this isn't the first time VAR fucked us this season
Was a 100% a foul in the modern day. It gets given pretty much every other time. End of. We see it week in week out.
VAR was not serious at all
Bhavs is so deluded, hes like Ty V2. The other Arsenal dude actually has good takes on Arsenal which is rare for an Arsenal fan
In real time the ball went out and all of it
cant prove it was out of play though
Both sides and teams looked equaly
Whats the name of the arsenal fan?
I watched all of the game and watched it again we the Arsenal should have not lose its a real joke
Arteta is 100% correct. That was one of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen.
Not really, the goal is at worst debateable but probably valid. The rest yes, should've been red for Bruno and Havertz.
@@brunoactis1104 Yeah, right. The goal was offside, handball, a push in the back, and out of play in the build up but apart from that completely fine.
@@adtastic1533please read the rules of the game. It would only have been ruled out for handball if Joelinton had scored himself, that’s been the accidental handball rule for ages now. Offside? Maybe don’t get your explanation of the offside rule from Lee off AFTV, because he is wrong. The two players between the player receiving the ball and the goal only applies if the ball is played forwards. If the player receiving the ball is further away from the goal than the ball originally was, that rule doesn’t apply. See Sterling squaring the ball to Jackson when 2v1 with the keeper on Monday night
@@brunoactis1104havertz a red? You idiots are the reason why football going downhill
@@jamesbothoms6009 It's you who needs to read the laws of the game. Ball to hand of an attacking player is always hand ball and never a goal. Doesn't matter if it's in the build up. VAR just failed to see it.
Not people
'Teams have found you out this season' We're top of our CL group and are 1 point off the top losing our only game becuase of a referee. Jesus christ almighty. Lets not forget Timber, Partey, Odegaard, Jesus being out for large parts of the season and our fully fit start XI yet to start together this season and its mid November
If you frame the argument at the other end of the pitch, the exact same goal and circumstances against Newcastle and arsenal win the game, does brian keep the same energy.
If thats kai havertz with two hands on the back of schar and passing to Martanelli behind the keeper do you support the decision.
Its so simple to see its a wrong decision but tribalism will let VAR ruin football.
If its simple to see that it's wrong why has the refereeing review panel said that it should have stood and that havertz and bruno should have been sent off? When will you arsenal fans just accept you lost and the worst decision of the day was havertz still being on the pitch, you lost the game, take the accountability for a bad day at the office and stop playing the victims, move on
@@benjtho399 The havertz tackle the worst decision? Go get your eyes checked mate, because the Bruno G elbow is a clear red and should have been checked by VAR. Havertz tackle could have a been a red and if it was I would have no complaints against it.
But the goal should not have stood. I have no issue with newcastle winning and saying arsenal had a poor day. But Newcastle did nothing to win that game. Poor VAR.
But we move, enjoy your champions league run lol
@RizwanKhan-fb2qv go read the panel review
Goal - correct decison
Bruno red - wrong decision
Split decison from the panel
Havertz red - wrong decison unanimous decison
I didn't even read the rest of your message there's no need the panel have made it pretty clear, your opinion is irrelevant
P.s. enjoy your top 4 race, title race lasted long 🤣
cry more VARsenal enthusiast 😂😂😂
There is a picture when the ball is just going over raya and joelinton is jumping with 2 hands on Gabriel’s back. How can anyone say that it’s not a foul
was a foul as a spurs fan
The ball went out of play and Newcastle should of gone down to 10 men and Arsenal should of had a three kick and it was offside
Read the referee panel review
No mistake on goal
Mistake on havertz red - unanimous decision
Mistake on bruno red - split decision
Arsenal fans should be thanking PGMOL the worst decision of the game was in your favour, but at least you know now so can stop crying yourself to sleep
The embarrassing part is Arsenal fans think it only happens to them, every team gets calls against them regularly
just let the machines run the game. Humans are flawed beyond repair.
12:45 You won't notice the refs being bad in the champions league being bad for your club because the premier league refs can't referee the premier league club's games 😂
As a Porto fan, Anthony Taylor managed the Porto vs Barcelona game and a penalty for a shirt pull in the box wasn't given and even a clear Barcelona hand ball wasn't given either. It's the best league in the world with sadly the worst referees.
Anthony Taylor is such an incompetent idiot I swear. Consistently gets it wrong and I’ve seen it first hand multiple times as a chelsea fan
Jesus christ I've heard a hell of a lot of nonsense on this video.
It is a push and offside and out of play Newcastle should of gone down to ten men and Arteta is not over reacting at all
Did the Havertz incident just not happen, give it a rest ffs
Read the referee panel review
No mistake on goal
Mistake on havertz red - unanimous decision
Mistake on bruno red - split decision
Arsenal fans should be thanking PGMOL the worst decision of the game was in your favour, but at least you know now so can stop crying yourself to sleep
@@benjtho399 Because the refs clearly never get anything wrong do they? Who gives a fuck what the panel says? It's made up of PGMOL officials, they're hardly going to go against their mate are they? We already know from Mike Dean that they have that kind of approach.
your either pregnant or you are not. Two hands on the back is pretty obviously a foul. Slight push, big push, it doesn't matter.
bruh has the world ended???? Teams have found Arsenal out???? 3 points off top, top of the champions league group yet people are acting like we aren't as good. Holy overreaction...
You aren’t as good as you were last year mate😂
Lets stop the Havertz bashing, he was good. He's finding his role and a springboard and space vacator. Phillips was 50mil and hasnt played yet Havertz for 65mil is being treated as a disaster
So havertz was bought for his height. Nice 😂
I wonder what the scouting idea for bringing in Havertz was, because we already have two exciting young Attacking CMs.
One has grown up and played in the younger English leagues alongside the two prospering wingers that are currently in the first team.
The other is a Porto youth development player who had an exciting season before his transfer to the Emirates.
Neither are given anything close to the minutes Kai is given, and yet, across all comps, Emile (0G, 1A) is equal on assists and 1 goal away from tying Kai (1G, 1A) in 900 less mins played and Viera (1G, 3A) has equal goals and 2 more assists in 800 less minutes played.
The only reason Kai gets game time is justification for his price tag. Pepe 2.0 but without the handful of goals...
Bruno did it two times
It is not hard at all
The ref and var was and is rubbish at the weekend
WC games and group CL games do not often/ever have the intensity/pace or PL games. They're vastly easier to ref and yet there is still shocking decisions. Refs are human beings and thus make mistakes. Does the standard of common sense in refs need to go up...yes.., but that wont mean every PL game is perfectly refereed. VAR was suppose to remove obvious mistakes. Its not suppose to make every game perfect ffs. The younger generation of fans are just cry babies.
You go to the pub after the game, complain about the $hit ref and then move on.
This aged a little poorly, independent review show both players should have been sent off and the Goal was correct....
12:46 ahhahaha no. Pre VAR? Yes UCL refs were the best. Since Var? Nope. Absolutely terrible I would argue a lot worse than any league. It makes the Scottish refs look like they might have a brain cell.
Nah everyone laughed at liverpool and now they're all boring
i agree pl refs are bad but champions league refs are no better
Is Geordie so delusional now that he can't admit it was awful refereeing. I hope every Newcastle fan is not as unbearable as Geordie now they have a good team. Also I don't support any Football team. Losing your integrity for a sports team is why I dislike sport. The decisions I saw were terrible and I've seen even worse recently in the NFL to a point where it looked like match fixing.
Reactionary football channel
Is this Chelsea fan ok
15:00 - ARTETA DIDN'T SAY THAT ABOUT THE LIVERPOOL SPURS INCIDENT, STOP THE LIES, HE WAS ASKED A TOTALLY DIFFERENT QUESTION. ARTETA BACKED KLOPP 100%
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
You cant’t win a title with your manager being this nervous and crazy on the sideline. Arteta should be the cool one and keep his players in ckeck, not give them more stress.
This is just laughable, some of these clowns berating officials when they clearly don’t know the rules themselves. They keep going on about offside and two players between the ball and the goal 🤦🏻 they must’ve been really confused when Sterling and Jackson kept getting 2 on 1 with Spurs' keeper and it not being offside. It’s like they don’t understand that where the player is in relation to the ball also matters.
This Arsenal fans' mustache is laughable
Newcastle had a ball judged to go out of play vs Dortmund (it never) and it lead to them scoring.. no club statements, no crying.
If we could see multiple angle's of Joelinton and real time clips there would be a lot more context
We dont
Quality goal ⚫⚪⚽
The ball was played backwards to Gordon so therefore it is not offside if the ball went forward then it is offside. Gordon is also behind the last Arsenal player so still onside behind 2 players is nonsense. How long has that guy been watching football ?
Shock the gooners don't think it's a goal and don't mention havertz but mention Bruno 😂