Flats Reacts To The Fall Of Ball In Overwatch 2
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2023
- Check Out The Original Vid: • The Fall of Ball
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I like the bit where he tried to kill lifeweaver 1v1 and did absolutely nothing
And then immediately dies when the Sombra arrives lmao
It's hilarious.
Accurate representation of Ball
it’s crazy because as someone who likes playing lw, i’ve literally seen this happen to balls chasing me a few times, the risk vs reward on getting a kill with ball is insane
weaver also picked up a health pack, calm down silver
The adaptive shield "immunity" I wonder if we have a character that has something like that *cough* orisa *cough*
it would be nice if it was just for the first 3 seconds after activation and for that time the shield colors purple that its visible for everyone. after the 3s it would turn blue like normal.
@@maxmoch6044I would have it a little more different of color for colorblind people but that’s such a good idea
@@stixjr1864There are colorblind settings in Overwatch, so it wouldn’t really matter what the default is.
Can’t have do it all characters though. Flip the scenario and imagine if Orisa had Ball’s mobility.
I hate Orisa don’t make me defend her
No. I agree. Not every character needs that. But ball is missing something and when the hog rework is finally out ball will be the worst pick in ow2. So he needs changes and CC imunity that you can play arround (kinda like you can play arround bastion centry form) would be the best thing for ball and not that anoying for the enemy team @@Guthbox
I think it's important to understand that while in OW1 there was a lot more hard CC, there was also another tank to assist in taking that punishment. Now with only one tank, getting hard focused with soft CC (which has become a lot easier since everyone just shoots the tank anyways) is in essence the same thing
Zen + Anna + Sombra + Torb + Orisa
Discord + Sleep/Nade + Hack + Two Tap Head Shot + Stun Lock Combo
Ball: "Pain."
Soft CC feels way more harsh than hard CC too. You can move, but not really.
Its like they say "its better to have no internett than slow internett"
Removing some cc could improve with other problems too. I for example love playing tank but as soon as I go past mid master elo I don't enjoy it at all cause ppl know how to focus you well and deny having fun with all those cc. The Options you got is to stop playing your favourite role or to smurf and deny other ppl of having fun.
@dennisschluter2695 Perhaps the best option would be to expand the tank roles passive knockback reduction to include a cc reduction of 15% to 35%. This way the cc abilities won't need d to be adjusted on each individual hero, breaking every sing one as the agonizing string of tweaks and ballance adjustments go through. It would also make tanks feel tankier, if not important again.
@Colomodo it's just literally staggering yourself instead of instantly getting deleted. That's the only difference imo.
You actually can see your character suffer at real time for a extended period of time instead of instantly getting deleted.
I think the anti body-blocking change would be perfect for ball, it would make him a little easier to play and improve his quality of life incredibly
True, but it probably wouldn't push the character into play, just be a nice mini buff
@@ashirii8347 For someone who plays pretty much only Ball, that would be amazing for me. Body blocking is one of the worst things happening to me. Not only does everyone switch to CC characters to counter you, but whatever they play, technically ANYONE can be CC to Ball with body blocking. Essentially everyone can screw you if they get close to your face (which I assume most people do unconsciously since they can't aim, and don't want to miss, so they get close. And those that do it consciously , in an organized way are a complete menace to me) . Ruins your momentum which is required for most of your gameplay.
@@mitkoogrozev what rank are you? I tried playing on ball for 2 weeks and went from low silver to mid diamond with him. But now im just completely stuck and unconsistent as half the games are full of counters. Im pc btw
@@capten272 Ball is so horrible, once you get into high elo its just over for you. In metal ranks its tolerable because people are ass and you can win even with trash heroes, but once they start noticing you exist its just so unfun.
I really am enthralled with the idea of ball being in dps. It might be the closest and fastest thing they can do to hot fix him.
His whole kit is about displacement though. If they felt compelled to move Doom over to tank in order to preserve his cc they aren’t going to do the inverse with Ball
it would be fun for an event or something to try out but i agree his kit would have to change so much it wouldnt feel like ball anymore
@@TheWorldTurntle Why he has mostly soft cc like how they like most dps?
@@TheWorldTurntlethey could also just reduce the knock back it does by ALOT
@@21Light12 Ball has high mobility and more than 1 source of cc that are both multitarget unlike the DPS you’re referring to. Blizzard is not going to allow you to rebound chain multiple targets 6 times on a DPS variant of Ball.
No one outside the tank role has that amount of potential cc on their kit. They set the precedent with Doom and they’re too stubborn to admit their faults. The only realistic way forward with Ball that preserves his current gameplay is staying in the tank category.
There is only 1 ball player left in the world that makes ball look fun, competitive and makes it work and that's Chazm...he is fucking nuts!
And even you can notice he has to tryhard at times because the role sucks
Moreweth is pretty good with ball also. Not has mechanical as chazm and maybe not quite as good overall, but he’s very fundamental and pretty basic with ball and gets tons of value with him.
You should check him out on RUclips.
@@ItzSpritzan overwatch player willing to admit that someone is good but isn’t the best? That’s heresy! Your required to call him trash and say ball diff!
@@Bro1212_What is bro yapping about
I just love that chazm did a road to grandmaster deathless on ball right when this came out
Yeah but chazm is literally the best ball in the game. Almost perfect mechanics and tech
Chazm is in his own meta
You can't nerf Chazm.
He is the BALL GOD...Second to none...His skills is on its own level.
Nobody accept for zinzor can play ball like chazm. To say indirectly that ball is good because the best ball in the entire world clutched golds is just dump.
Playing what you think is fun is a sentiment that a lot of people forget. I like picking the fun tanks in casual play, but if I start doing good they go Orissa and every dps counter in the game. Like holy shit, I just want to take some time to mess around with Rein or throw games as ball. Every single tank I go up against swaps to Orissa if they’re doing poorly.
There was a qp game where me and the enemy tank were both Junker Queen. Our team got crushed 90% of the round, but when we finally won one team fight, the enemy switched to Orisa. Like whyyyyy. It was fun having JQ duels even though we were clearly losing
For real
youre implying theyre having fun playing orisa + sombra too. Sometimes i switch to sombra just to afk hack ball because the rat wont die at all. If ball made me regret picking 80% of my hero pool, should i let him have fun ?
TBH its the same with every tank imo, since it requires "focus fire" from 2-3 people to have any hope of killing them. Tank being the only "tank" in the team make them impossible to have a fair fight, either they be sandbags when they dont have cooldown, or they sneeze and you teleport to spawn
@@MefoWhonah if you gotta play sombra against doom or ball your not doing enough against the healers or it’s a skill issue. Admitting to not doing anything but hacking the tank to “stop them from having fun” is sad asf your what makes overwatch bad the switch as soon as I die twice out of spawn. If they have no hitscan you the type to play pharah even if your already winning you have no skill fr
@@lonniegalloway227 well ye it is skill issue. You can claim that youre a better sombra than me anytime and i dont really care tbh. I might eexaggerated the situation for dramatic effect but if you take it as face value, it is what it is. Switching to what you dont want to play is bad in both ends, that was my point. If you cant get it from that then there you go.
And yea i do switch to pharah mostly against junkrat/sym because playing against spam is so fun xdd
bella is frowning somewhere rn
who
@@jakube1066pretty sure they mean bellaboo, she’s a popular ball main
Good
I’m pretty sure ball players are the only people who know who bella is
Who tf is bella
13:07 is the best way I’ve ever heard someone describe ball play in 2023
I had a guy argue to me that a tank shouldn't be able to kill someone if it lands all of its moves. The shit blew my mind.
I regularly have near top if not top elims with Rein everytime I play him.
Only trouble comes against Orisa,Reaper,and bastion and even then I can more then hold my own especially against a reaper being that reaper is my main so I know how they think.
6v6 was so much better. Junker queen would have been such a sick off tank
Agreed❤
Facts.
I would shit my pants if I was stuck between a JQ and any other tank
heck no.
Yess, I would be so okay too if they had to tweak them a little like a bit less health but JQ would be so sick alongside Rein or a Zar.
Literally most of my diamond dps losses are because we had passive healbot supports while the other team had an Illari or a Bap out fragging everyone in the lobby while also maintaining the healing our supports had.
Support dictates victory in almost all of my games its absurd. Unless your tank is just getting hard diffed or the DPS are insane on the other team its always just supports dropping the ball because they don't realize they're throwing by not trying to kill things and relying solely on the tank or dps to do it while the other supports are hard carrying with frags AND heals.
Agree, I played a game of each support character last night for a little challange to myself and even though I barely play half of them only lost like two games.
Kiriko can basically ignore her own team the whole game and just one tap the enemy dps. Add in a map with good highground and she is a monster. Enemy team was calling me an assassin by the end of the game 😂
Moira was one I lost on but we had a hog so idk what else you can really expect lol. Also the whole enemy team left and backfill is always super unbalanced.
@@AtomicSluggYou can still lose a lot going high elim no deaths as tank too
tanks dictate the outcome of the game. a tank that gets a hard pocket and doesnt move out of LOS like most do, is able to take as much space as their heart desires
@@AtomicSlugg dumbest take here. tanks dictate the outcome of the game because they control how much room their team has to work with. if the enemy team is running dps supports, thats because you're not giving your team enough room to work, otherwise they'd have to swap to a dedicated support to keep up with damage output. if you go 35-0, you're abandoning your team, leaving them no space to work with, thats why you're low masters. in GM a good tank easily wins games. the enemy needs to gap your DPS big time to stand a chance
@@bladeclanhalo3oh really? So if playing tank is that easy why does no one want to queue for it and why does every high level player agree they playing tank sucks?
All these Ball doomsayers just make me appreciate Chadzm so much more. He never sees it as a "Ball doesn't work" he just sees it as a "he's not optimal right now, other heroes just need to be nerfed". While I don't agree with his statement that he wouldn't care if Ball did get reworked into a DPS, I love his passion and his unwillingness to swap off. That is true resilience. That is what it means to say "Fuck it, we Ball"
That’s just Chazm though. Every character has a player that’s 1% of the 1% that will make the hero work regardless of where they sit in the meta.
ZBRA was top 10 in S1 when Doom was by far the worst pick in the game. You don’t withhold adjustments that benefit everyone else that desperately need them just because a very select few make it work.
Player is good ≠ Hero is good.
Genji isn't A or S tier because Necros or Alvicate are really good at him.
Same for Doomfist with GetQuakedOn and ZBRA.
Roadhog with Cyx.
Etc.
@@SpiritedFalcon My bad i forgot the OW community can't read. I never said Ball is good, I said that he is not optimal, as in there is no situation EVER where you would stop and say, "Damn, a Ball would be good here". Every other tank gets infinitely more value for less effort. I did also say that other heroes should get their oppressive kits nerfed so Ball can stretch his legs a little.
@Randomness662 replied to the wrong person. Mb.
We call those people unhelpful
I have this idea. We should add a second tank like the other roles have. I feel like it would help so many areas of the game.
Never gonna happen blizzard doesn’t care for the game
ball is in a really similar spot to doomfist. Needs insane skill just to compete with other characters. you buff them, they break the game. Thats because they arent the issue its other characters.
Except not really because doom can thrive in the chaos and when you see an opportunity, punch into wall and one shot them.
Except Ball, I think during season 2 or so, was considered broken and then they nerfed adaptive shields. I main Ball myself and have played in diamond lobbies. Yeah the CC is a problem at the highest levels but Ball is fantastic in lower elos because you can just buy time for your team. That's Ball's new trick. Buy time. Not kill
@@nathancasey7712 lamp, cleanse, boop, bash, rock, hook, javelin, nade, any form of healing, hack, dva eat, zarya bubble, etc stop that from happening. Sure that happens in lower elos but other characters simply have better kits and numbers.
Yep the counters takes 0 skill
Lol you're pretty spot on with the tank mindset on balance. They really are the most analytical and big brain thinking types. They also have to look out for their team which makes them more fair and willing to put up with things, even if they don't exactly like it.
Funny enough, this mindset kinda persisted in me, despite me being a Support main in OW2.
You can see me arguing for Ana, Zen, etc. nerfs pretty constantly if you’re in an OW discord w/ me. (I play Ana as a secondary and play Brig as a primary lol)
It’s because having a brain is actually a requirement in order to get value on the role (minus Orisa) unlike the other roles
@@TheWorldTurntle I’d disagree on that. Dps and support are more suited for small scale tactics and faster decision making (dps specially). Tank is more larger scale, 2-3 steps ahead of thinking. It’s just as a lot of OW players now are picking up on, is that fact that supports don’t have to think as hard as the other roles
Tanks honestly need a 25% increase of HP and permanent 10% damage reduction
@@commandoch12i5 You say you disagree but your last sentence pretty much confirms my take to be true😅
I’ll concede that my comment doesn’t apply as much to some DPS picks because flankers like Genji/Tracer actually have to be proactive with their decision making.
Ow3 will be 4v4 or 7v7(1 Tank 2dps and 4 Support)
5 support, 1 DPS and 1 tank.
Gotta pay for the extra player
Your spot on about the philosophy that some players actually believe that tanks can’t do damage and they have no rights. Support is pulling all the fun out of the game right now, you can’t kill them, and the mains themselves are so whiny about their characters getting nerfed. It’s such a bad state we’re in right now. Tanks SHOULD be able to secure kills by themselves 1v5, if you solo shatter or flux a whole team, you should be able to secure at least ONE kill, but you can’t, that’s the issue
what kind of take is this? supports arent pulling fun out of the game. good tanks are. tanks have insane survivability plus basically the same damage output as actual dps.
tanks can and do solo kill constantly. this video is based on ball, a character who can easily go in to the supports, kill one, and run away with little resistance, even brig, a defensive support, gets melted by ball.
flats is expecting to be able to shatter 5...and then casually stroll up to the supports to kill them. that wont happen unless you're right on top of them
The worst part is, im still dropping 30elims games on tank while both my support and Dps are half or less in elims and im being told to swap off which ever tank im on. Like you guys are playing the easiest/free heros and complaining about ME???? bro gime a break
@@gtbpr_00 you're focusing on supports while your team have no frontline and you're trying to blame your team. you are the problem. tanks are the strongest. if they have one and your team dont, they win
@@bladeclanhalo3the problem being that just in the support class there are so many ways to either shut down a tank directly or negate what they are doing, for instance take a Sigma (which I play) or like a Zarya. You can pump constant damage but if you take heat off for a few seconds to retreat or reload more often than not your target just gets away or gets healed right back. And it's hard to dive supports when they constantly keep their tank alive. More often than not this just comes down to a battle of attrition, where the tanks are the meatbags with a job of just eating cooldowns while dps get a couple picks and supports do everything else. Sure I know that the job of the tank is to tank but if you arent asleep, walled off, shielded off, antid, hacked, stunned, and booped, then it feels like you either retreated from the fight or are just dead
@@bladeclanhalo3play him for a while - even in QP. And realize this is a bad take
Even hard Widow mains have evolved to also play Sombra in the rare case that the enemy tank picks Ball. If they get killed even once by one, they immediately swap. Huge respect to the Widow players that keep trying again and will grapple over and over ignoring me and trying to kill my team anyway
Nah widow onetricks don't deserve love
We don't talk about widow. Or her mains...
Long Live Hamston
I think adaptive shield should become a barrier with a set amount of health, like 500. That would counter hack, sleep, hinder nade, and other cc's.
There shouldn't be a hinder nade to begin with, this shit is annoying as fuck and it's NOT NEEDED, cas can easily 2 shot like everyone who isn't a tank, why would he need to cc too? Hate this character
I was queueing tank the other day on a cp map and my team was getting destroyed by a widow. I was playing Dva and went to dive the widow to deal with the issue but my supps said that I shouldn't go dive. Now I'm not the highest rank, playing high gold to low plat, but I figured that someone would realize that we would need to dive the widow but no one seemed to get it until I said about it. Mind you my team had a genji and a kiriko so I wasn't the only one who could have dealt with this. I feel that tank just gets blamed for way to much most of the time and that comes from someone who doesn't play tank very often. I also think that dive tanks work well but players around my rank seem to either get that the tank is diving or they don't. If I play my main role of dps, when I see a dva/winton I don't just assume that they will play with the team and not contest highground/ take space so I don't get why other players just assume tanks aren't going to dive in that situation. Maybe I'm just stupid but I don't know.
Then you should ask how many widow kill that the genji have. I have situation where I can deal with the widow as hanzo by 1shotting her, while the whole time my dva running straight to her to join the widow-kiriko-ana party while im getting fisted by doom. I learnt to accept that sometimes its just not meant to be, just do your best and go next.
As someone who's good friend mains Ball has his primary tank, I can confirm that it can still be terrifying to encounter
i used to go 40-1 in diamond lobbies as ball now i quit playing him cause everyone switches to sombra and hog and instantly counter me without using 0% of their brain
@@Kiddos77 Shocking they didn't go Mei/Cass to seal the deal, good ball isn't fun to play against in any context, it's just Orisa/Hog syndrome but he's just harder to play, no less annoying, just more skill intensive than the other two.
For adaptive shields (Ball otp here btw) make activating shields a cleanse effect, rather than full cc immunity. Shields can be activated while ccd or not, but if activated while ccd, it does a mini self suzu for the ball, like 1.5 secs of immunity. I think thats a fairer take than pressing E and becoming a non cc-able primal winton. If get-out-of-jail free cards are the OW2 way, then adaptive shields should offer a cleanse as well.
As a Ball main here too, I agree. But, I don't think it should grant any immunity at all, just cleanses it with no damage or CC immunity and gives shield like normal.
@@bryanryan5875 Prob cc immunity for 1 sec upon activation of shields instead of cleanse. Cleanse doesn’t stop your initial momentum from getting killed, so u prob are still screwed after getting CC’ed (also doesn’t change the effectiveness of boops)
Also, this makes sure low elo balls aren’t more annoying to face while still addressing the weakness of ball in higher ranks (could even be 0.5sec immunity)
i completely agree as a fellow ball otp
As another fellow ball specialist. I concur.
Activateable at all times regardless hack or stun. Cleanse effect only no immunity. Same overhealth.
But also the no body block would be soooooo nice. So many times it would be nice
I should have read the comments before posting has similar thoughts on this
As a support main, tank secondary, there's far too much healing in the game that tank can't do any damage at all.
I honestly believe they made a good move removing CC from dps and support, but they went back on it.
Tank should have all the CC, dps should have all the nuke ability, and healer should only have nullified/buff/debuff/escape ability. Mobility creep is the safes creep to have as long as support have escape ability.
there is a lot of healing because there is too much damage
@@bladeclanhalo3that’s why we need number tweaking. lower damage = lower healing = more room for tanks to do proper damage
@@defaultdan7923 and you expect us to break through perma shielding from sigma/ram or even orisa. Maybe make it so shield take more dmg the longer theyre up, so you can realistically reduce dmg. But tbh how much dmg is enough? Do i need to hit 5 out of 6 cass's shots to kill somebody ? is that fun ?
@@MefoWhoram and orisa aren’t valid orisa doesn’t have a shield ram is barely up only rein and sig have “perma”shield
@@thelostwanderergames4287 shield as in anything, it can be meat shield or imaginary shield like dva, sorry if i wasnt clear
Fundamentally 5v5 is the source of so many of OW2s issues because the majority of the roster wasn't designed for it and they haven't been given ground up reworks for 5v5 so you have this mix of some characters being OP and others being useless which only gets worse as with each new character the gap between widens as those characters are built for 5v5 and blizzard has every incentive to make those characters stronger as they are the ones that can make them money over older characters
10:00 Yeah, that's fair. Alot of support and some dps players really freak out when there character is touched. For example, if I say something like make Ana's antinade cut healing in half instead of preventing it entirely, I would be hung for treason and deemed a Ana hater even though she is my favorite character.
Ana nade is fine, I know it was probably an example, but your actually crazy if you think it needs a nerf
@@everilliem3292bro ana nade is incredibly obnoxious.
There's a lot of legitimate issues though. Mercy players keep getting screwed over not only by devs throwing things at the wall and seeing what stick, but having Mercy herself get bugged into oblivion to the point where some of the bugs are legitimately game breaking. Brig's giganerf on her new ult which is ALSO bugged + her whipshot going through people when their hitboxes change (Hog when Vaping, Ram when in Punch Form, Bastion in Turret Form, etc) is also basically game breaking. I think Supports need a rework if only to just fix the bugs they somehow managed to create with OW2.
What's funny is even 50% healing is still a death sentence, they just don't see that because its technically a nerf
@@everilliem3292It is a example, but it is also something I think she might need as a potential change given all the hate I have seen directed at her lately. Now, do I think this is the exact change she needs, no. But it's just something I have thought about to make her slightly weaker/less polarizing.
The worst part of having to listen to them call it "soft CC" was that I knew it was hard CC for Ball and a lot of other tanks.
As a tank/ball main it's been sad watching tank counterplay become just getting to turnoff my hero for free. Why did this ever become a thing?
Surprisingly as a Ball main myself I find this "soft CC" not to be not an insane issue unless at the much higher levels of ranked even then so you literally just have to keep moving and not stop as Ball. Literally had a Cass miss his grenade as I was standing in front of him. Don't know how but he missed
@@Antonio-ys5zd Starting even in low diamond everyone can land CC reliably on all roles. The character just loses agency immediately if the other team picks the right things. Also if the soft CC can shut off my hero then its not soft
@@mawnticores6928 I beg to differ especially if you are playing your hero to the best of your abilities. Take sleep dart for example. Easy to dodge unless that Ana holds it until you are literally on top of her but she can't kill you on her own. Sombra and Mei and even Sym you can get away. Cass is annoying but you still have adaptive shields to tank his damage. You are never completely shut down from playing Ball. You are a tank of speed and survival. CC slips you down but does not mean you will die unless, just as Flats said, you try to 1v5 a team
@@Antonio-ys5zd First, if it’s 1 dps and another support, esp if that support is zen, you’re gonna get shredded with 1 cc even with adapative shields. Cass can also shred through ball’s shields real fast.
Second, u don’t hv to kill ball to win. If the Ana holds her sleep until ball is about to kill her (usually means he’s on top of her), and ignores ball while he’s attacking her the entire time (ofc still strafing), you’re practically down a tank for the entire duration, not to mention the second support can quickly top up Ana if she gets low
@@listlie again you are assuming the team is together which isn't necessarily all cases
As a ball player i appreciate the thumbnail 😂
Tank player here.
I miss 6v6, my favorite game mode was 2cp, and I also miss open queue being the main game mode. It solved the queue issue and made the most sensible players get an edge beyond skill. I think instead of all these overhauls, what they should have done is add a tank queue and an open queue that both go into the same competitive mode and matchmake for the same games. Tank queue locks you to tank but open queue you can choose any character. Tank queue would essentially be an instant game. Dps would share the same queue with support, since they are essentially the same role anyway.
You could even do it 1/5 v 1/5 1 tank and 5 open per team, back to teams of 6. Could even do a 1/3 v 1/3 making teams of 4.
You could also just set limitations, separate off tank and main tank so that when one player chooses an off tank for example, that section becomes grayed out for everyone else so that you don't have double shield or goats. Can't have more than 3 healers or 3 dps per team. Once someone choose a third dps the role becomes greyed out for everyone else. Can't have more than 2 tanks, once you have a 2nd tank the role becomes greyed out. If you queue for tank you are basically cheating, it's function is basically to have a game instantly but dps and support are greyed out permanently. Games can be made without a dedicated tank player technically, but the allure of instant games should balance that out, or have games with 2 locked tank players.
Man I swear, I cannot kill lifeweaver as ball, he’s so goddamn slippery
That beginning made me respect flats so much more a streamer letting a video they wanna react to actually get some love and also saying hey this a good vid right here we get to it later I hate that we have to say these things
15:43 the engine was rebuilt for pve i believe, not 5v5 and if i am not mistaken there is a 6v6 gamemode that cycles in arcade and its possible in custom games so if 6v6 really couldn't work then custom games shouldn't be possible with 6v6 as everything is built around the engine. Please correct me if i am wrong as i dont feel like laoding up overwatch rn to check.
Your 1/2 right. The engine can handle 6v6. The real issue is I think would be balancing. All tanks would need to be nerfed, passives eliminated, and after all that we would be right Back to double shield except now it would be sig-ram.
@@zrally2107 your 100% right on that, I was just trying to say that the engine isn’t the issue at hand and that it’s totally possible and that it is other factors that make going back to 6v6 not worth it.
Hey flats not sure if you'll get a chance to see this, but what would you think about ball's fireball leaving the ground he rolls over on fire for 2-3 seconds after he passes through? I feel like it fits his kit and helps him make space for his team while he sets up his second come around. It would slightly change how he plays and his priorities, but I feel I always have too much time waiting for my team to get into position anyway, this is a way you could help them do that
This idea is really good
fair take, but I think more would still need to be done for top level players. It's the same issue with his ult. There's too many ways to just avoid it
@ashirii8347 honestly I think it would help with that too, you can trap people between the two or block their ways out
Bro, you're going to just give Wrecking Ball permanent Torbjorn ult? wtf? You do realize that fireball isn't hard to get, right? You can hold the grappling hook for like 5 seconds and spin in circles and stay on fire the entire time. And if you're really good, you can engage with fireball through a team, and then bounce off a flat wall, do a 180 with your camera, and keep fireball going in the opposite direction. Can you imagine being in a small corridor and having ball boop you back so you have to stay inside, but he lights the ground on fire, and then piledrives you so you can't run away from the fire? This idea is cool conceptually, but impossible to execute.
As a ball player, this is a great way to make the character disgustingly op. I don't want people to hate ball even more, I just want to play the game.
As a ball main i'm a bit biased towards ball balance, but after eating all that cc and seen countless ana/sombra/mcass swaps I'd love for ball to get a self cleanse while activating adaptive shields just for the lols.
I think if he had an ability that was a little booster, that would be cool. Not to impact enemies but to allow you to get the movement you need sometkmes
9:40 I think this is caused because tanks typically have to swap and dont become attached to a specific character in comparison to the rest of the general population. Most people dont have time and or patience to expand their pool when their charater works. In a weird way you gotta defend your character like a friend.
So i dont think tank players are inherently more reasonable (ego trip). They're just less attached now.
flats imitation of hamter getting hacked basically being a spider that fell from the ceiling in the wrong living room got me laughing so hard
10:39 I think the reason why tank players are more willing to say to nerf a character that they like is because tank players are more conformed to a role rather than a character. It’s more likely to be tank main vs junkerqueen main, where-as with dps/support it’s more likely to be genji main vs dps main.
On average Tank players know more matchups. I will literally swap to Winston if I see that their Genji or tracer is walking all over my team, (or if their supports are being turds on zen/ana.) I'll hard lock Sigma Zarya,or Dva if they go Sojourn, Soldier, Bastion, etc... Reaper players, Sombra, Junk rat, they'll usually end up getting duffed with Ram or Hammer Slammed. Best part is that I don't just insta swap to counter, I try counterplay first because if I can win into my worst matchups with the hero I want then When I've reached a high enough skill level, I can just delete the value from an enemy team comp with whatever's most appropriate for myself and the situation. I would say it's about as satisfying of a prospect as being a one trick would be, it's just easier to learn matchups faster when you one trick.
OW2 5v5 should've been 2 tanks/2 dps/1 support, and you can't change my mind on this.
Zenyatta would be a literal throw pick then, that’s a wild take man
This reaction be ballin'
Once I saw the game was changing to 5v5, my mind immediately went to how Ball, Zarya, and Hog mainly would struggle to fit when their role in OW was to enable or disrupt rather than frontline. Sure Hog can still hook into one-shot (might keep this post-rework idk) and Zarya is either top tier or low depending on her balance but Disruption instead of frontline doesn't work when that trade off requires the rest of the team to be able to function without a Tank around them. Either the impact boops or DPS Ball is what he needs, Zarya can work with more tuning.
This video really hit hard when I first watched it. I picked up the hero very quickly after release, and peaked out in OW1 at about 4300 by one-tricking him (even running it successfully into goats) before season 18 crept up and introduced role queue. I thought that he would benefit from the switch to OW2, but he was only hurt. I barely play him anymore, and I logged nearly 500 hours on him between release and the end of OW1. Sad stuff.
Random bad idea of Adaptive shields. Now instead of you just using it to survive you can use it to increase the damage of your piledrive lol. X~amount of shields used while using piledriver gains ~x amount of damage
I agree with pretty much everything but this also applies for pretty much every tank specially for dive tanks, for me there is two ways Blizz could fix this either remove most if not all CC from none tank characters or give tanks characters a new passive to make CC and debuffs have 50% or so less effect and or duration on them kinda like they did with Ana sleep.
The rolling small boop sounds like an awesome and fun idea
What if you made the adaptive shields do that but if you crack the added health before the ability times out it increases the duration of the cooldown? This would I feel create the idea of agro for people to focus fire him trying to get the reward of his cooldown being extended drawing fire from his allies, But as well granting him all that freedom of movement to maintain his ability to disrupt and perform as a distraction tank to soak up damage.
I also like the idea of giving him a nudging shove like you can do to your teammates. Its nothing you can use to push or boop just sorta bully weave your way through a crowd. And if you wanted it to do damage do like 5-15 for first contact with that player after x time of movement without slowing down. I wouldn't go any higher then a quick melee though.
I could see this being a passive for all tanks to have the ability to shove enemy players with basic WASD/Move stick movement as they are all rather large in size.
As a high master gm player flats is not joking I hated ball the most with two tanks especially on sniper 😂 it made me so mad that I just played mei and chased them whole game yea I was tilted
1 shotting people from Narnia is more insufferable than running Ball. Glad I made you roadkill in OW1 o7
Bro got mad he didn't get to one shot ppl across the map
@@pepsiman2 so you rather play against some punching bag that never die but disrupt you every 5s ? I'm not excusing widow but playing against ball/doom/orisa or whatever that cant die is literally OW1 with double shield n goat
RIP the infinite hook 😢
the mini displace sounds kinda like a controllable perma cc in the right hands. scary
The slight boop would make ball feel so much better to play but I think a cc resistance would ideal not immunity but like cc doesn’t affect him as much. Like Mcree nade wouldn’t slow him down as much as other heroes or hack doesn’t last as long and sombra doesn’t get as much of a damage boost on a hacked ball
Bro finally I been eating on u to do this vid. My boy yeatle is epic.
The bit talking about Sojourn Orb is definitely because it obliterates mines, along with dynamite, concussion mine, mei wall, doom slam, and any barrier. Again, not a great ult nowadays against most comps.
I feel like a short burst dash that's on a Hanzo leap cool down that boops would be a good chance.
Also replace adaptive shield with and ability that ignores cc for a few seconds and gives damage reduction.
Every time i here something talking about the death of ball, i just think of chazm
Tanks should be able to 2v1 easily and sometimes 3v1. They should be able to do that because that's what their team already forces them to do half the time, it's the tank versus the enemy team with supports jammed up their ass and sometimes the dps will do something too.
i saw somebody in chat say '2 tanks 1 support' and i just wanna say that im pretty sure thats the meta in paladins
I hope people will appreciate that Yeatle is one of the best players that will ever touch the game.
Overwatch 2 players won't remember when this man marched up the entire competitive ladder, sat at #1 World, and just sorta... Chilled for a bit.
Not even a pro player btw. I highly recommend "Year of the ball"
that whole 7:00 section is really interesting looking back at it. the self heal hints at some ideas of reencouraging individual play. this could mean great things for tanks
"we got to think of so much more when someone runs at us than kill them or survive" Meanwhile mercy mains are coping that they need to analyze every situation like its rocket science over using blue vs yellow beam, a no cooldown no resource ability.
Honestly, the immunity isn't a terrible idea. I think if they made it a super brief window (almost like a parry) to cover something you know is coming could be fun and rewarding. And it could become a mind game for the opposing side of learning when the ball tends to try to use the invuln and popping him with cc before or directly after, etc.
Idk I'm just free-Ballin here
Just spit-balling an idea, huh?
Ball parry would go so fucking crazy
i think that making adaptive shields make shield recovery faster and give cc immunity instead of giving like 300 overhealth a good change it would be unique and cool cause it would activate during combat as well and he needs as dps increase as well
I've always advocated for more shots in the clip for ball. The amount of shots he has is just too short to be able to confirm kills in 1v1s...
how did you summ up the whole video in the first minute
I have been saying for years that adaptive shield should work like a parry.
If you time the shield with a stun, you get a benefit. Whether that is temporary stun immunity, or more shield per target nearby, or even a temporary dmg buff to fireball/pd damage. It should be a skillful move and would fit the fighter “footsies” design of ball.
A fun buff for ball's ukt would be to make the mines track players if they come to close.
Lets say a 5m to 10m radius around the mine field.
When a player enters said area 2 or 3 mines start following them at about 90 ish % player movement speed . So you can technically outrun them but they will be hot on your ass.
Also buff the damage on his guns with about 10% and lower the head shot multiplier by 0.2.
He could also use like 20 more bullets in a mag but that might be overkill if you up his damage.
Maybe give him a bit easier boop.
Like a speed boost on ground only , that gives you the boop aura ball gets when moving fast so you wont need to graple something to get the speed. Kinda like sonic's ball dash . This acts like a kind of boop or cc and can be used in a lot of ways.
It should have quite a cooldown though so it cant be spammed.
During April Fools this year they gave Ball the hunter-seeker mines. Maybe 20% player speed, but still terrifying
I'd be interested in an adaptive shield rework where while the temp shields are up ball can't have negative effects BUT can be displaced. Eg: can't be anti'd, slept, hindered, etc. But can still be hooked, pinned, javelined, etc. I believe it would make way for some breathing room for plays and the ball can be assured they can be healed during adaptive shields
It’s amazing to come back to this today when ball is the meta tank for season 9 😂
13:00 as a ball main, this made me want to cry how accurate that is
As a support I agree tanks tend to have the best perspective of balance. A lot of supports, more so in medal ranks, will talk about how weak they are when its really just a skill issue. Yes supports will need peel sometimes - but if you are incapable of defending yourself in even optimal situations thats a skill issue
10:49 damn the tank glazing is crazy
Man, the launch of overwatch 2 was the most fun I had on ball ever in OW. CC wasn’t cancer so I could actually play the game. I even hit GM
Wanting your character to be good should never be seen as whining, and even if it was it works, look at the support role. Enough complaining and they’ll make you immortal. With that in mind, give JQ 1k HP 😂
Notice how Lucio players just don’t complain at all
I miss playing Ball sm, I literally spent all my tank games as him in OW1. I think that adding him to dps (with proper adjustments like base hp and damage) would be the best option for now.
they could give him a 3 second fortify after a pile drive, or a fortify that varies based on how many enemies he hits with the pile drive.
Considering that the characters name is wrecking Ball, I feel like the timer that limits how long you can use his grapple combine with how long the cool down is on the grappling hook just doesn’t put enough emphasis on the whole main gimmick of his kit I think at least one of those timers needs to either be reduced or completely removed or both of them reduced a little bit. And just to clarify, I suppose I should say that my reduced, I mean for the timer on how long he’s allowed to use his grapple, for it actually should be increased, technically. because I was to be honest when he was first released yet true that the ability to infinitely stay grappled in swinging through the environment was to P. I would say it’s true appoint can definitely be made that now that there’s 100 ways to stand slow him down cc sleep hike etc. there are enough counters to somebody constantly staying grappled and swinging around environment that it wouldn’t happen now anyway if they got rid of that grappler limit for example.
Heres my bad take- what if we made his adaptive shield like orisa fortify so he cant be stunned and slept and such.
EDIT: i posted this before it was mentioned so nevermind lol
I think that might make him too strong, I think he should be immune to stuns when he’s in fireball mode, that would be a lot more fair. Shields last for a long time and fireball only works if you have the space to get going and doesn’t last long.
It's almost like you watched the video
@@donovan4222that one's actually decent
@@donovan4222 thats fair
@@scarecr0w630 i made the take literally a minute before it was mentioned then it got mentioned so i was like welp there goes that.
Didn't Flats say he'll quit OW2 like a millions in all his videos? Now he's saying he "doesn't care" which just means he really does care. 🤷
They should probably change adaptive shield to just a regular shield ability, it could be like Winton's April fools bubble shield that follows him around, but with a smaller radius. They would need to tweak the health numbers and duration to compensate, but it would be the best and fairest way to give ball cc "immunity". Because that way you can still counter it by closing the gap and get inside it in time, and this shield would also help isolating targets from their supports.
That small boop idea would be very nice
10:49 as someone who mains Mercy and Ana; I mostly talk about making Mercy a bit more complex like putting her damage amp on a limited bar amount that she could use and healing the same teammate too much decreases the healing amount over time by a small amount.
Same, I don't play mercy anymore but making her stronger on the condition that it takes a higher amount of skill to get value out of would make excellent.
Give cc immunity in some of his kit. Like during first few seconds of Adaptive shield, at max speed, or during pile drive. That way bad plays can be punished.
15:00 when we talk about cc, we have to talk about how many ways they introduced to cleanse/pull/lamp/ress tho.
Yeattle was Hamter Yoda. I miss his ball videos with him diffing everyone
solution, just give us the first version of ball. with the sonic spin dash, old pile driver, and his dual flame throwers then just give him winstons bubble but attach it to his body. it'd work great pinky promise
or the other direction and give his attacks armor strip where the damage you deal towards armor will be direct and not reduced by said armor then 2 grapples. plus he used to soft counter orisa then some switch flipped in some blizzard emplyee and said you know what we need the horse to have no fun abilities. but it all started with the orisa fortify headshots being a thing and ball could 1-2 clips on her and shes dead if out of line or without her sheild. because fortify used to force you to not move as fast and Wrecking ball could just out manover around her. but then he got slowly nerfed over time now with the change to 5v5 they did jack didly to help him in anyway to 2 because once again orisa overnight became a hard counter for wrecking ball then every character added makes his case worse tbh
here's a few more ideas make people hit by full speed boop light on fire and maybe a more simple idea like a rock where wrecking ball might have a medium speed mode and if he hit them they get booped a little and take a little damage and possibly a unique low momentum passive like instead of or normal passive when you fall off something you will do a tiny but of a upward boop and tiny bit of damage. and his attaptive sheilds were like winston's bubble but with adaptive sheild info and possibly some rework to his bullets because they are almost useless like i don't think any character but winstons basic shock. like his gun were for finishing off enemies so what if his guns had ammo efficiency gets better with the more damage hes dealt meaning he can mechanically combo his abilities for more damage. so VERY OUT OF POCKET IDEA but Adaptive sheilds should shock people you run into but don't bump into. and maybe make mine fields mines more like sea mines like fewer mines but alot larger like the mines in the first archive mission like 4 giant ones instead of a bunch of tiny ones. plus itd be a bit nicer tuning because wreckingball is in a horrible spot atm
Just give Ball an ability like Orisa’s fortify where he counters CC for a very short duration, like 5 seconds. However don’t give him the damage resistance.
A good ball can still be a bit of a pain in Push maps because of how long the game mode lasts and how the game functions (i.e. the way you gain and lose the lead)
I feel like ball should ignore the tank passive, or give him a cc reduction immunity at certain speed. And make it so that he will have a certain damage amount he can receive before he is able to get affected by crowd control. Like 50 hp so that its harder to stop him but you can stop him
Maybe make adaptive shields give less health but give cc immunity for the first few seconds?
As a Doom player that had played quite a bit of Ball, Doom ult is better because it charges his punch.
For the CC immunity idea, maybe have that be part of when he's in "fireball" form instead. Couldnt CC him on the engage, but you could as he goes up for a piledriver
precisely what I thought as well... balanced, rewarding, and fits into his kit.
6:20 I feel the same way. I remember in ow1 if risen hit with his charge you were died the second he hits the wall, (unless you somehow managed to stop him) but now it almost seems like a dickens tracer can survive one (obviously an over statement) but still it’s unbelievable
Buff doom
I think, that may be a thing in qp, bcs he just has little health and falls over but for role queue he is extremely fun to play...except for some cc but that is every character, but overall fun
So in the same comment you want to buff a cc character and you're complaining about cc characters
The irony.
Buff his ult and he's good to go.
As a ball main ive been punching air since his last balance change.
18:39 I was thinking they could just implement the teammate pushing / no teammate collision thing with enemies for ball specifically.
i feel like the only decent possible buff would be a passive momentum is like you both said. where by rolling forward without turning and allowing some strafing so long as you don't do a hard turn or pull back, you gain that ramming momentum without the need for the grapple hook. that or maybe change the ult to a spike ball, allowing him to basically do a junkrat bomb wheel without the boom and enhances ramming and drop slam damage and even climb up and ride walls for a limited time and then maybe eject the spikes upon the end for final last little damage. that's my opinion anyway.
Flats whats your opinion on only tanks having the ability to soft cc? Like only letting tanks have it so they can claim pressure and space more and it brings back dps and supps
Someone mentioned in the chat they never felt truly countered in ow1 but they do in OW2 and I agree. There were definitely counters to certain components but they weren't guaranteed value you had to work for it even running hitscan into pharmacy you had to be smart or tank busters still had to work around a second tanks cooldowns and pressure.
I feel like as a tank player in OW2 coming from thousands of hours in OW1. It's so mind numbingly easy to have 2-3 very apparent counters to a certain hero it doesn't feel fun or worth it to try and push through all that when even your QP matches end with a bastion sym/mei swap after first fight on a non meta tank.
Road hog is a titanium peashooter now😂
so the main issue with Ball is that he forces the team to play without a frontline to fail at dealing with the hyper heal creep in the backline. what if Ball has a passive where as long as he's alive and outside of spawn he provides his entire team with a small amount of shield health. like 25 or 50 (numbers can be tweaked). like Sym's old shield gen ult. if he dies or is in spawn, the team doesn't get the SH. or maybe the whole team gets adaptive shields when he activates it (not the full 1000 but like a portion of it, maybe 10-15% of it).
I do agree with the minor boop passive, there have been too many times where I set up an engagement and a tracer blinks into my path and stops me or an tiny egyptian lady moves back a bit and stops me before the flames turn on. I don't even mind if it doesn't do any damage, I just need the movement. I do think tanks should be able to body block Ball, though. but tell me why a tiny japanese girl is able to stop a giant metal boulder by simply existing.
Oof that bit about sombra chasing ball around hacking them, and one of my comp matches I had a actually decent hammon tank and what was one of their DPS's option to do literally just went Sombra and follow them around invisible I watched it in the replay he just immediately went Sombra and did not leave our ball alone just chasing him everywhere spamming hack as soon as it came off