How Todd Phillips Created ‘Joker’ with Joaquin Phoenix - IndieWire Awards Spotlight
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- Опубликовано: 23 фев 2020
- Phillips' comedy background helped him to improvise with Phoenix (who's poised for his fourth Oscar nomination) to create the chaos at the center of the movie.
Writer-director Todd Phillips is not someone accustomed to being in the public eye, except for the brief time when he’s promoting a movie. He’s been making smash comedies like “The Hangover” at Warner Bros. for some 15 years. After the long ramp-up for his tenth film, “Joker,” when he convinced two successive Warner Bros. management teams to greenlight a $60-million deep-dive character study of a DC villain, he had no clue that bringing “Joker” out into the world would be so rough. It all started when “Joker” entered the competition at the Venice Film Festival and won the Golden Lion.
At which point “you have a target on your back,” Phillips told me in our video interview, above, in which the director sets the record straight on several things that were misconstrued during the “Joker” media blitz - ahead of its torrid $1 billion global box office, from his feelings about making comedy today to star Joaquin Phoenix’s unconventional approach to publicity, including that controversial Jimmy Kimmel clip.
When Phillips and screenwriter Scott Silver (“The Fighter”) set out to use the motor of the comic-book films to explore the “lack of empathy in the world,” they had no idea that the film would be so divisive, or accused of inciting violence. Phillips found the experience of being attacked and quoted by the media “brutal,” he said. “There was a lot of pearl-clutching that goes on.”
What he’s proud of, is that with his biggest budget to date, Phillips and his creative collaborators - production designer Mark Friedberg, costume designer Mark Bridges, and cinematographer Lawrence Sher - elegantly evoked ’80s New York in DC-universe Gotham, inspired by period movies, from “Network” to “Taxi Driver.”
Travis Bickle and Martin Scorsese references are all over “Joker.” Scorsese was going to produce it at one point; his producer Emma Tillinger Koskoff continued at the helm when he became overloaded by “The Irishman.” And Robert De Niro plays a talk show host in “Joker” close to Jerry Lewis’ role in “The King of Comedy.”
Phillips’ comedy background helped him to improvise with Joaquin Phoenix (who’s poised for his fourth Oscar nomination) to create the chaos at the center of the movie. “Making films is jazz, it is not math,” Phillips said. “A movie is a living, breathing organism.”
And Phillips asked Icelandic composer Hildur Guðnadóttir to compose some music off the script, which became not only another character in the film but a huge influence on the production and, especially, Phoenix’s performance as troubled Arthur Fleck. Phoenix had no idea what to make of “Joker” when he first read it. But the more he went over it with Phillips, and shared the possibilities of what he might do with Fleck - an undernourished, beaten-down, sad-sack smoking clown with a sick mom, a rich fantasy life, and a dangerous desire for attention - the more he realized he had to face his fear.
The actor pushed and tested Phillips, as he does with all his directors. Phoenix brought up the idea of dancing in the pivotal public bathroom scene following the Joker’s first kills on the subway, when shooting three bullies makes him feel better. Shot on the seventh day of production, Phillips played Phoenix the first piece of music sent from Guðnadóttir. Phoenix was immediately affected by it as Sher started filming with two hand-held cameras. The actor did a menacing dance through a couple of takes.
After that Phoenix worked telepathically with Phillips, and it added layers to the script, as the director and actor played around with what was fantasy and reality - a theme that has haunted the film ever since.
What’s next for Phillips: “I am closed for repairs.” 
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![[SPOILERS] JOKER Director Q&A | TIFF 2019](/img/1.gif)
Joker 1989: throw him into a vat of toxic waste.
Joker 2019: throw him into society.
Nothing is more toxic than society
I'm always impressed by how intelligent and thoughtful people who have a background in comedy are. Great interview and powerful film.
Todd Phillips giving brilliant insights, illustrating the freedom he gave to showcase the true artistry of all the parts. He said at about 17:50 that movies are made three times-once when you write them, once when you shoot them and then when you edit them. I've always admired the editing, especially in Joker, creating the twists and turns, identifying just the right shade of emotions in a scene, such as kindness, and turning that emotion inside out to show the result of cruelty, for example. The editor really needs to be a disciplined partner with the writing and the director. There are so many powerful decisions to show points of view which added a special layer of alchemy along with the music score. The sum of all of these parts, especially with Joaquin- allowing us to see his kindness, purity and vulnerability traits injected into Arthur (I imagine you cannot portray these qualities unless you actually have them.) Together it was all pure magic.
So true
'Making films is jazz, not math'
Todd Phillips seems like such a kind hearted person and One of the best directors in Hollywood. He creates such a masterpiece, adult thought provoking powerful film with a very important social message.
So true
just watch taxi driver
people can’t even compare the two thesis of the movies (Taxi Driver and joker). Yes they both are critiques of society but I’ll show u the difference:
Whatever CHANGES travis is REAL: prostitution pumps and porno theatres. The film was a critique on this exact kind of destructive hedonism that was prevalent in the 70s and still is. What Scorsese was ridiculing was REAL because they did exist at the time.
But in Joker whatever (changes?) Arthur was pathetic: the kids beating him and the Wall Street guys on train and the black woman on the train. These projects of the fiction cannot act as archetypes for wider society. My point is that just because a CHARACTER in the film Hurley another CHARACTER we cannot conclude that society as a whole is bad. Am I right? Even at the end of the film he is whining about “nobody’s civil anymore”. What silly philosophy is this? It’s like Todd Philips is trying to critique society by using fictitious scenarios to establish his message instead of taking real hardcore facts like Scorsese did to say society is wrong.
Finally I just have to say that when he danced on the stairs or in the bathroom it wasn’t philosophical at all. It was a clunky mess of nothing. Kids walked out of cinemas thinking that was DEEEP because it wasn’t like MCU films.
Todd Philips tried to be an artist but ended up being the real JOKER
@@raees6330 this comment reads like the articles written when Taxi Driver came out to discount Taxi Driver. You should look uo how hated Taxi Driver was, you soujd just like the people who didn't like Taxi Driver at the time.
@@raees6330 everything you wrote is silly nonsense, impressive.
“Outrage is a commodity.” 👌
I watched this movie 6 times in a weekend. Its now one of my favorites.
Imagine a "journalist" asking questions this thoughtful of presidential candidates?
I Like This Man, A Genius.
I loved this movie I have aspergers a developmental disability and I could relate to the Joker with how society treats people like him I got that so much in school and still to this day but not as much, watching this movie Arthur says People are awful nobody is civil anymore, I was like YES we finally have someone who agrees with me when it comes to society and that is why I keep to myself outside of my job and my relationship
just watch taxi driver
@@BOLLOSS sounds like you should watch it. Take your own advice.
@@kdscool1536 movie is garbage
Lol 2 oscars and a Grammy.
@@bbbllsels2773
He NAILED this movie
I disagree. I think it is badly written. I'm terribly sorry.
Intelligent artist.
A brilliant man
I cannot believe this movie was directed by the same guy who did the Hangover Trilogy
Usually Comedian always have dark past
The attention to detail .... such a great movie......🙌
Great questions!! Dang! Awesome insight!
I think it could've been called Arthur.
He is brilliant
15:06 OMG!!! HAHA LOOLLL
I would never have watched this kind of movie. I don’t like this genre. I was a flight attended and the time of COVID we had to take empty aircraft out for cargo and to be on fire watch. It meant we had lots of rest periods and took it in turns to lie in beds in first class and watch movies . I thought I would try Joker . I thought I wouldn’t like it. I was blown away . I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. Utter utter Genius
Even you deserve an award I'm so happy for all of you and this was the number one movie in the whole world I want I know you going to take out something else with Phoenix cuz he only goes for the good stuff God bless you
18:00 Perfect
He's a great guy! Not to mention genius
I love this guy for calling out Robin Quivers of the Howard Stern show. Or should I say the Robin quivers show featuring Howard Stern.
Todd, please make me a movie with my talent in mind
One of the most brilliant minds in the Movie Business.
This is the best Joker movie the bed specially because I'm walking and seeing all these movies he's always wow the best congratulations
this interviewer is fantastic
kinda douchey for my taste
love tood Philip's too
true and genuine, this movie is real..mental health is real
goddamit
he makes an entire original film to shine a light on empathy & understanding, yet what does he get in return? lack of empathy & complete misunderstanding. fuck this world.
That is almost entirely wrong.
8:29
14:10
genius
18:10
This guy should be more involve in the DCU films especially on Original Stories Like this Joker anyways the other DCU movies Sucks beside the New Batman.....
The DCU hasn't even started yet and The Batman is not DCU.
It's Elseworlds like Joker.
real
hehe
@17:00 can we stick with the movies Hollywood n leave politics alone for 5 minutes
It wasn't really that good of a movie.