2017 KTM 300EXC Electric Start Issue
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2019
- Phil's 2017 300EXC has 143H on it and he recently started having electric starter issues. It got so bad that it hardly ever engages now. We inspected the starter system and found that the ignition cover has become badly damaged, allowing the bendix shaft bush to move excessively. We'll replace the ignition cover, bendix, bendix bushes and gasket.
XRC Bronze Starter Bushing sets: www.tokyooffroad.com/product-...
Webshop: www.tokyooffroad.com/
TShirts: www.storefrontier.com/store/t...
Facebook: / tokyooffroad 
Авто/Мото
Couple of possible issues here.
1) The lead in on the flywheel gear profile
2) The bendix shaft was too small for the bushing and/or the bush ID was too large.
3) The pitch helix within the bendix is too large - this would cause a rapid displacement as the system rotates - if this catches the teeth of the flywheel gear this put side loading on the shaft causing the bush to take the stress - eventually leading to the ovalling
I'd also cheack the alignment of the starter motor to the housing - if the bearing housing or the clamping bolt holes were misaligned during machining then this would also cause this issue.
You can have the cases welded, re-drilled and then bushing fit back in. What bushing was it? Oil-lite of just ally?
Matt- I enjoy watching your channel (rants and all) and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I think the main contributing factor leading to failure of the ignition cover bendix bushing housing failure was number 2 in your list. If number 1 and number 3 were significant issues the starter system would tend to have problems even when new, but that is not the case. The stock KTM bendix bushing quality is extremely poor IMO and they wear very quickly. They appear to be made from aluminum, with the contact area coated in a friction reducing material (red in colour). My theory is that once the bushings start to wear the bendix shaft is able to move and mis-engagements start to occur, causing even more wear and possible distortion of the soft bushing material. As wear of the bushing increases lateral movement of the bendix shaft and force on the bushing housing also increases. Ultimately if the bushing is not replaced sufficient lateral force is produced to fracture the bushing housing.
Regarding repair, the ignition case is made from magnesium and would be somewhat tricky to weld. I'm a keen TIG welder, with experience welding steel, aluminum and titanium, but know there are some challenges and dangers when welding magnesium. Machining after welding would be straight forward as I have a mill. But considering the cost of a new ignition cover (about US$90) it's not really worth bothering with. I'll keep the broken cover just in case I fancy trying to repair it at some stage.
The course of action we're going to take is to install a new ignition cover, bendix and install some much higher quality bronze bushings. The bronze bushings should last much longer than the stock aluminum coated bushings...
@@TokyoOffroad
Cheap bastards! LOL Great video by the way, a viewer sent me it.
"Regarding repair, the ignition case is made from magnesium and would be somewhat tricky to weld. I'm a keen TIG welder, with experience welding steel, aluminum and titanium, but know there are some challenges and dangers when welding magnesium. "
- I've had the joys of welding Magnesium, its not that difficult - ruclips.net/video/ElT5qmUyagU/видео.html
@@TokyoOffroad Hello ! does the same issue applies to 4 stroke bikes ? Like KTM 350 sxf/ husqvarna fc 350 2018 -2020 ?
I couldn't ask for a better video!! I'm having same issues with my 300 2017 .
As always - the best channel for KTM technical information and some dope trail riding ;)
Hello Phill. Starter gear bushings have to be changed frequently. Unsure that bronze bushings are the best solution. bushing like on ktm 2014, it seems to me that the best will do, since they have antifriction compound inside. This gives some freedom to the starter gear and it self-aligns. Also, special attention should be paid to the thickness of the gasket of the ignition cap and distance washers. Otherwise, it can hold the gear. Look at the coil of the ignition coil, it is completely black. Soon will have to rewind it. In Russia, changing the stator assembly is very expensive. Good luck.
Great video by the way. Thanks for posting it!
Thanks for the heads up.
Awesome video as always 🙂 thank's for the info
Almost the same problem I had with my 2015 KTM 300 EXC. In addition to the flimsy bushings that caused its seat to become oval on my bike, my original Bendix had a press fitted gear on its shaft that slipped under load. The new Bendix’s gear is “laser welded”. Replacing the crappy Aluminium cased Teflon insert bushings with bronze bushings is also an excellent idea.
XRC in New Zealand do replacement Bronze bushes which includes a toll to install them. there about $50nz. theyre are much better quality than factory. i just did mine and its mint
I remember those now. I'll order some...
Do you have a link for these?
@@Fogg13 facebook.com/XtremeRaceComponents/ send them a message and they will send you details of their products
@@Fogg13 - I couldn't find a webpage. I emailed them here: info@xtremeracecomponents.com
they do a whole cover , might aswell spend the money and get that
Thank you man for tips i like your videos 👍😉
That's a lot of hours for those bushings. I don't let mine go for more than 100 hours. They are cheap and easy to replace.
Good to know!
Thanks
I've built a brass bush, it's already 60 hours and no wear.
Good heads up .. thanks
thanks this is very useful tip!
Could this be a similar problem for a 2015 KTM Sfx four stroke ?
At 1:53, the wear on the outer edge of the teeth that engage with the flywheel, I wonder if that might be just normal wear for a Bendix on a bike with 150 hours.
I’m no expert on the Bendix, but when those teeth shoot out as the starter spins, they grind a bit before they mesh with the flywheel teeth don’t they? Wondering how much wear on those teeth, if any, is normal at about 150 hours.
When I have the replacement parts, I'll make a video comparing the old bendix to a new one...
@tokyooffroad,
Hi Mark, I found out also that the bushing are the same as for earlier models, only thing that from 17-19 it has only 2 for replacement instead 4(older models).
Could it possible that it should be serviced on some working hours. like, to change them on 100-120 hours. TPI models, what do you think Mark?
I think it’s a good idea to inspect the starter system on a regular basis. The KTM manual states to check the starter drive every 40H, but provides no detail regarding what to check, or how to maintain it. My recommendation would be to replace the stock bendix bushings regularly (they are cheap and easy to replace), or replace them with some higher quality bronze bushings such as the one XRC sells. Yes, 2017+ models only require two bushings, whereas older models require 4 (due to an extra gear in the system).
Is it normal for the KTM starter to disengage if it doesn t start right away, well still holding the starter button, mine kinda sounds clunky when it engages, but I have nothing to gauge it by, because this is my first electric start two stroke, I know my other electric starters doesn't do that, and this is bran new basically no hours on bike
Hi there,
Just a quick question off topic, what camera do you use when filming your videos? I'm about to start my 2005 125SX build and plan to do a video series on this rebuild.
Thanks again for the awesome videos!
MrCrazyivan01 - I use a Canon 80D with various lenses and an external microphone.
@@TokyoOffroad Thanks mate, I'll look into it!
How many hours on this bike...
Kick start Or replace bushes with up graded ones before any signs of failure
Hello, It would be nice to get a detailed work on assembly and disassembly of starter motor. And the tools you need it.
thank you
When the time comes (to replace a starter motor) I'll make a video for sure...
謝謝你的提示，我喜歡你的視頻
My Freeride 250r is starting to have a similar issue. No visual inspection done yet, but sound suggests starter motor is spinning and Bendix takes its time to catch onto the flywheel’s teeth. Very common problem on this bike. The Bendix gear itself has become a joke of sorts, and notorious for being the weakest link in the starter systems on many models.
I had the same problem you mention on my Freeride as well. Only 20 hours!
Yes, unfortunately 2T Freerides are infamous for starter issues. One of my friends had one and loved riding it, but grew to hate the starter system reliability. The Freeride engine doesn't have a powervalve and puts quite a bit more load on the starter system than an EXC. Replacing the stock bushes with bronze bushes seems to improve reliability greatly.
Mind adding a link to the “bronze bushes” when you order. How many will be necessary, 1or 2? Much appreciated!
A UK link..please
Inha e the same year and model. Once in a while when i hit the starter button it hits, but then free wheels. A d inhave to wait till it stops to try and push the starter button again. Similiar problem? How many hours on that bike? I have 95.
The bike in the video has 143H. If your bendix is just spinning and not engaging then the root cause may be the bendix itself. If the bendix gets gummed up internally (with grease) it may become sticky, which is particularly noticeable when the engine is cold. Other cause may include a failing battery (low voltage causes the starter motor to spin slower than normal), or poor earthing.
+Tokyo Offroad Where can we get the bendix bushes that made our of bronze or other stronger materiel (in comparison to the OEM part)?
I ordered some bronze bushes from Xtreme Race Components in New Zealand. I managed to contact them through FB messenger and then they emailed me an invoice.
@@TokyoOffroad tnx!
What are you using for deterigent or what ever it is for WASHING our bike?
It always LOOKING MINT.
I use car wash shampoo. Nothing special. ruclips.net/video/MEeb81HS1Ec/видео.html
Lack of maitenance! KTM manual says to inspect electric starter drive at 80h of normal riding/40h of competition use. At 150h i found it normal as this type of bushing always wears rather fast.
With so many ktm husky faults this is always the cause....just like oil pump failures....were pumps not changed
@@Lewiseyers There were some minor issues in KTM's since 2017 but they are no reports of oil pumps failing in the TPI's.
Hello just quick question, its my first time with this. It seems starter not going out without tearing engine apart. . It means it has to be split in crankcase to change the carbon brushes??? Thanks
Hi there. What bike do you have. For 2-stroke KTMs it’s certainly not necessary to split the cases. 2017+ models have the starter located under the engine so it is necessary to unbolt the engine from the frame and lift it up for some clearance to remove the starter, but no case splitting is required.
Xc W 2017. Just found out that no brushes to buy. Excpt for whole starter set replacement. Do you have hi performance starter for replacement?
I wonder if this can be a result of accidentally engaging the starter system with the drive train engaged.
I think the bushes used are a poor design and wear quickly even if used normally. It's worth inspecting the bushes periodically before major damage occurs.
Tokyo Offroad I’ll definitely have to keep an eye on my mine. It’s really surprising they made that casting so thin around that bushing. It’s not like it would have hurt them to make that area solid aluminum or even have a screw in steel support for a bushing/bearing to sit in. Thanks for the info!
Hah all the same happened on my Freeride 250r when I took off the ignition cover. Bushing was damaged. Bike barely has 80 hours. However on my bike the Bendix faces the other way and its shaft goes into the crankcase.
Depressing to see how the most expensive dirt bikes are built! Very unexpected. It’s a simple system. I hope newer models fair better.
its been a problem for a long time the bushes wearing out, best option is to replace them with beter quality bronze bushes
The starter system design is the same 2017-2019, including TPI models. Overall the design is improved from older models, but still not perfect. The bushes used to support the bendix shaft are clearly not up to the job and wear quickly. Will replace the stock ones with some bronze bushes...
150 hours is way past service.
Buy a Yamaha or Honda. They would never engineer crap like this
@@OffTheBeatenPath_ - Correct me if I'm wrong, but Honda and Yamaha 2-stokes don't have electric starts do they? I rode Honda 250 2-strokes for years. Compared to KTM the engines need top end overhauls much more frequently (I did every 40H, my KTM every 150H). Honda don't make 2-strokes now.
KTM still having problems with the electric starters... Damn. I thought the new design is much more reliable than the old 2011-ish one that had the longitudinal mounted starter motor outside the ignition cover. Let's hope the KTM R&D will fix that problem once and for all.
The 2017+ starter system design is definitely an improvement from older models, but the bendix bushings wear out very quickly. Replacing the stock bushings with some higher quality and longer lasting bronze bushings such as XRC is a good idea IMO. I'll make an update video next week showing the repair.
I will inspect mine right away , but I'm afraid that because it's a Yamaha it will be disappointing :D
Lmao. Good one.
while in there, it might be worth changing the carbon brushes of the starter motor as well.
Do you have a source for the brushes? Online retailer?
@@KTM753 it should be the 410w starter motor afaik, one can find brushes for that.
Now I have stopped scratching my head wondering
Sherco uses needle bearings in the ignition side cases instead of bushings ... just saying.
KTM do many things so well. But the starter system on the 2-strokes is clearly not one of them. The 17+ starter system is definitely an improvement over previous years, but the stock bush design is poor to say the least. Let's hope future models have an updated design which requires less maintenance and is more reliable.
For sure KTM makes good bikes and are innovative, but far from perfect. There is lots of great product coming from Beta, GasGas, Sherco and TM. They rival the orange brand in features, design and build quality. Parts and support are readily available, and the bikes are exceptionally good and offer a real alternative to what comes out of Mattinghoffen.
The Bendix type starter is the worst kind of starter system ever fitted to engines.
Popular in cars made in UK with electrics by Joe Lucas the Prince of Darkness, 4 cyl Fords and others had them., just awful.
If the engine tune is out at all the engine can kick the bendix out as it almost starts so easily causing crashing.
Jap m-cycles use a one way sprag clutch that last a lot longer and doesn't involved crashing gears like the Bendix, horrified to see it used in a modern m/cycle.
The complete Cover is rubbish. The steal sheet which holds the cables to the Side went flying and destroyed the complete Rotor. Bushing aswell, i saw it and knew that it would break. Last time ive bought something out of ktm's House. Ive got a fe 250 `17 aswell. After 8 h of riding the Plastik Gear of the oil Pump went flying. Complete engine failure. And guess how KTM helped me in all these situations? No help at all...
KTM don't seem to be capable of learning from their past mistakes. I have a 2013 EXC and the starter motor setup is bad on that, it has taken several modifications to get it to work well. The crappy little bushes that KTM use are never going to last very long. To sum up I'd never own another KTM again! (I still have my 2013 mainly because I've invested too much time sorting things out so I now don't want to sell it!). I wonder if the 'wet mod' would have helped with your 2017, assuming that you can do this mod on your year model. (Mind you it could end up filling the starter motor up with oil)
Как был у КТМ стартер ГАВНО)))) так он и остался))) Beta рулит)))
Nice video,
So use electric starter as little as possible I'd say to pro-long life
I ride 2015 beta rr 300, 80 hours, I use Electric starter all the time... No issues at all. But I guess I shouldn't say it😀😀😀😀😀
live free.....use kickstart!!..come on.
Phil was doing lots of that (kick starting) in our last ride. Balancing on the side of a steep snow and ice covered hill I’ve never heard him swear so much :-) LOL
I know the feeling!