When it all goes wrong - How not to land a C172.
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2023
- It was the end of a long day, I was tired and hot, we had a large number of aircraft converging on the airfield all wanting to land, and then I stuff up the landing. Lessons on how not to land in a C172.
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You had an unstabilised approach, you recognised it, you went around, and came in again stablised for a successful landing, all while communicating with ATC. That in my books is exactly how you should land! Couldn't be safer. Bravo!
Good, honest, short explanation to the Mrs. Well done. I would have lied and asked if she'd seen that goat on the runway.
🤣
Good job with go around and second landing. On second the touchdown right of centerline (drift from left crosswind with wings level) can be more easily eliminated with the slip into the wind. Light crosswind is more difficult than strong crosswind because drift is not as easy to recognize. By putting the centerline between our legs and walking the rudder pedals dynamically and proactively, like the tennis player moves his feet before service, we bracket and thus nail the centerline all the way down on the left main tire in this crosswind. Once the wing is banked sufficient to eliminate drift, lock it by not moving aileron at all. If we use rudder only to keep centerline between our legs we cannot turn, cannot bank further (we cannot bank any in no wind.) Adverse yaw is what moves the nose the wrong way initially. No aileron, no adverse yaw, no wing wagging, no miss alignment, no landing away from centerline. Good job on the second, but with crab we have to get the wing down with aileron for touchdown while keeping the centerline between our legs with rudder. It is easier to get that all set up on short final and hold it until touchdown on the left main.
Puts me in mind of when we were young and chasing girls. A good approach was so important. 😇
Good decision to go around. Good illustration of what we can all do when tired... No shame in it, but good for all pilots to remember. We're all been there!
Thanks!!
It happens to all of us and not many are as willing to be so honest. Thank you for sharing, Wayne.
Thank you for your kind comments
Can we all also give a shoutout to the Elstree AFISO here, not authorised to explicitly tell pilots what to do in any given situation, yet he still manages to get everyone "in line" to work everything out best he could!
Yup 100%. The FISO and the A/G ops are first class. Elstree is a hidden gem in the GA world, busier than most people expect.
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot I really want to fly in (above?) UK some day. Seems like it would be much fun for a Swede! (I hold an LAPL and my daily work is as an AFISO here in Sweden)
I cannot advise you how to do it with all the license variations - but if you are ever in the UK give me a shout and we can go flying :-)
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot I sure will! 🚀
Great decision and thanks for posting, Wayne. My instructor always said, 'If you're not happy with anything throw it away and go around." Every so often I throw one away because I don't want to be out of practice sorting pitch, drag flap, and trim when it comes to the stress of the real thing. Interesting about being tired, too. It concentrates the mind in the early days of training when your instructor points out that the flight isn't over until the engine is shut down. In other words, keep up your concentration until then. I have a habit of coaching myself through the re-join by speaking out loud the crucial actions, as if hearing it adds a layer of cognisance (not endless words, just the few cues to produce the correct set up 😊).
I talk to myself a lot, especially for checks - not everything is posted in the videos, which does lead people to complain I'm not doing them. Sometimes it's also familiarity breading complacency, I've landed at Elstree 100s of times, so I'm mused to manyl of the issues, but this time it was a combination of things - the classic swiss cheese model!!
Don’t forget there’s two pedals at your feet!
Always
That’s how TO land, nothing wrong with a go around, better safe than sorry, never push a pawn too far.
Quite right to bin that one. I'm sure you were wide awake for the second go. Oops, maybe not. Checklist needed.
Good job. You recognized the unstable approach and went around.
Hi Wayne, thanks for posting, just passed my ppl so good to see a lesson learned that maybe makes me more aware when flying next. Always good to see your videos, real life private pilot 👍
Thanks, and congratulations!!! If you ever venture into Elstree. Drop me a line. And keep enjoying your flying
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot Wilco 👍
Thanks Wayne, I'm a couple of hours into circuit training now at Elstree and this is all super helpful.
Excellent news!!! Circuits are so much fun at Elstree :-)
With only 10 hours of flight time training in a sling 2 and goal to obtain my RPL these videos are invaluable to me, thanks for posting
You are welcome, and please let me know how you get on - good luck and enjoy the journey!
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot thanks I have some flight videos on my channel amongst the train vids 🙂
I will go and have a look :-)
Long flare. I prefer a steep power idle approach, then flare. Or, if you want to give some verve and elan, as you settle, bring up the power using the prop a bit like a heli; MUST be only 18inches odd high; play the power and plop her down opposite the tower to show you are slick! RAFVR.
Good post. Interesting that others also had to go around.
We are always taught that a go-around is the first option. So if things are a little tight in the circuit, and a number of user were returning at the same time, going around is the best option to open up a gap.
I'm pilot but the trim situation seems like it would have been new trouser worthy as the trees approached closer then expected.
If you had pulled like your life depended on it I assumed you'd have climbed though?
Thanks for sharing 👍
Don’t you just love Elstree. I was flying circuits there last Friday 220/15.gusting 20. The trees at the end of 26 had me all over the place on take off and the trees just before the threshold made the approach more like a roller coaster
sounds like a typical day 🙂
Totally get this, the other week i did +3hrs of flying with a lunchtime stop at a Toby Carvery .... by the time i was heading home i was totally "off my game" radio work was horrendous and barely keeping ahead of the aircraft. The >30° heat probably didn't help much either
It is not a mistake to go around when something (not all!) goes wrong. You should not be too hard on yourself. This is definitely not the last go around on your life. This shouldn't cause you so much stress in the future, because the more stress, the greater the probability of making a critical mistake. For now - it is well done, you did not damage either the plane or yourself. So I can say everything is good in this video.
My brain is much more wired for go arounds now, and I make the decision far earlier, which is much safer
Second time you still let the cross wind take you way off centre line. Also instead of crabbing you are continually having to bank left to keep the runway roughly in line. Glad you got down safely but I think you need practise crabbing and keeping the centre line to your apparent right (with a left cross wind) then kick straight a couple of seconds before ground contact.
We always need practice. and the video was actually posted to show what NOT to do... but thanks for your comments.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. Just subscribed - it's great to see some active UK based GA content being put out. Would you mind sharing some details of your cockpit video/audio recording setup? I wouldn't mind capturing my own PPL learning journey, but I don't know where to start with getting the necessary recording kit for use in a C152
I'm still working on the optimum layout, so camera positions are always changing, and I have a new audio setup which I'm working on, but ruclips.net/video/2xi39yGDBn8/видео.html will give you some basics. Always ensure everything is out of the way of controls, and check with your flight school they are happy for you to film. some are some are not. Remember learning to fly is your first goal, filming can wait :-)
Very well handled nothing broken nobody hurt. Lesson learned and if nothing else some circuit practice
Very timely post. Just got back from an IR lesson, on base changed from flapped to flapless landing due to gusty crosswind, speed never got correct due to config change, then overshot final due to wind, got on final and stall Warner pipped twice. Landed fine but the whole way home I heard my first ppl instructor saying in my head "it's not working out go around" over and over again. Think I'm going to have to adopt some strict rule that if something isn't right go around rather than try to correct.
I’m working on my IRR as well, and I completely agree I think we all have a habit of trying to save a landing when we should simply go around. I was tired and I think it showed.
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot problem is often it's easy to save one error, but once things start to compound it is not easily recovered. Good luck with your IRR - just done UA today.
I don't fly in the real world, but I enjoy MS Flight Sim and learning about real-world flight procedures. I am always guilty of being a bit lazy with my speed and trim, I often try to land by just pointing the nose down and landing at (close to) cruising speed! 😂 Obviously not a good idea, as a slow approach gives you much more time to line up properly and counteract any unforseen events such as wind gusts! Just be glad that I'm stuck on a computer and not up in the air with you guys! 🤣
Is out your camera position? The second approach still doesn’t look right to me: it seemed to we’re approaching the runway diagonally. I’d love to have seen the camera position central to really see what was going on.
Good decision to go around btw
Placing myself in this situation, I'm guessing you feel some internalized pressure not to go around a second time? Definitely having some challenges with the crosswinds on this day and sounds like you weren't alone in that regard. Good on you getting in safely and also recognizing that this isn't a landing performance you want to repeat. I'm sure in the 9 months since you've put to use lessons you learned on this day.
I was much happier second time around. My internal processes and my training are always plan for a go-around, the landing is a bonus.
Also I find getting into the circuit as opposed to coming on a long final allowed me to get more settled and slow things down, so I feel less stressed. And yes since this things have improved, although landing on the centerline at Elstree is still not a great idea due to ever increasing potholes.
Nothing wrong with a go-around. Actually, a successful landing is a frustrated go-around
You can allways go around🎶🎶
Exactly!!! Thanks for watching!!
Mate well done for posting this and admitting the mistake. In the world of aviation there aren’t margins for error, I’m glad you got on the ground buddy 👍👍
There are many of margins for error, built into many facets of aviation, including flight planning. Going around is one margin, and you can do that because of another margin, having enough fuel for go-arounds or diversions.
Thanks for that!
Well done for going around off the first approach. On the second approach you were right of centreline all the way down and landed right of centreline. Why was that?
Camera position, and the fact at Elstree the centreline is pothole central.
interesting vid. That camera should be higher so we could see the runway better.
Sadly I’m restricted by the wing :-)
Hi Wayne, I'd be inclined to clean the aircraft up, be safely on the climb-out before worrying about any radio calls. Aviate, Navigate & Communicate.
I completely agree. I find its a level of my capacity to think, so if I can think of the radio call, then I have the capacity to do one. It was quite brief, and it was part of my process on go arounds during training so it felt quite natural.
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot But in this instance the main priority of flying the aircraft has been neglected for a radio call, if you had an engine failure at the time you are skimming the trees then you are in a world of bother. Had you got the aircraft sorted and climbing away at Vx or Vy, then made the radio call you are in a much better position.
I disagree. I flicked a button and gave everyone around me adequate information to allow safe flight. I was still flying the aircraft. Otherwise you could argue that no calls should be made at any point in that flight, until I was on the ground as the priority was 'flying the aircraft'. Did I neglect flying to make the call no I do not believe that is the case.
I'd argue that until the aircraft is flying the correct profile for the stage of flight you at, then your priority is to correct that.
I used to not let my students make any calls on the go around until the aircraft was cleaned up, power set and trimmed for Vx/Vy as applicable.
curious why you lined-up and landed to the right of the centerline?
Because I was dealing with a crosswind, the cameras are not on the centreline and I was tired.
You also seem to have a habit of being right of the centerline. You may want to practice staying on centerline and carrying that all the way through your rollout.
Thanks, Firstly the camera is offset which accentuates the positioning, secondly landing on the centre line at Elstree will put you in the potholes.
You don't have VASI lights?
No Elstree has LITAS, and only from the other runway (night landings are not allowed on 08.
Is that the approach at Elstree, not being on the centerline?
You do realise the point of the video was to point out my mistakes……
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot wondered if it was supposed to be an offset approach to avoid overflying sensitive properties or similar. Was there a reason for staying so far off to the right and not correcting it?
We aim for the centreline, but I was dealing with a gusty crosswind. Also remember the camera is offset so you will always see some error
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilothaving considered your points I still don't think that you were paying enough attention to the centerline, you were definitely a long way off to the right and I find it surprising that you aren't of the same impression; you don't need to fly down the centerline but it is convention and it will make your final landing easier if you're set up correctly further out. But I'm sure you know that anyway
No I was paying attention on how to get on the ground safety in adverse conditions. The centreline is an ideal, the runway is wide enough for my aircraft to land safely.
Always look for an excuse to do a go around. You rarely get to practice them.
Way off the centerline!
Your insight is amazing 🤩
Nose wheel needs to be on the centerline,,, alway, 777 or 172,, centerline centerline centerline. Takeoff or landing.
Sorry I disagree. It's something to aim for, but not every landing is going to be 100% on the line. Do I 'go around' if I am off my 6"? 6ft? A landing had to be safe, and depending on the size of the runway and conditions off centered landing is acceptable. Not ideal, but acceptable.
Nah . . . centerline is over rated.
Flying is a precision business. Never accept less, always fight for it. If you train and fly with that attitude, it will bite you later. Sure it’s comfortable on a wide runway, but what about a strong gust or a blown tire? If you’re on the edge you’re in the grass. If you are in the center, you are still on the runway. You won’t always be on a wide runway. You got to train how you want to fly. You won’t “magically” get it right on a smaller runway, your habits will always take over. Be as safe and precise as possible building habits so when things go wrong you are in the best position for a positive outcome.
@@HandgripsRaiseI take it you're not a flying instructor.
When giving criticism a little encouragement doesn't go amiss.
Nobody can claim to be perfect and when they do that's usually their biggest mistake..
On doing an awful landing many years ago my instructor debriefed me. His words of critique and guidance were far outweighed by his words of encouragement. I could have gone home and given up but I went home bristling with enthusiasm for the next day.
That was a good instructor
Do all you brits wait till the last minute to get on centerline? FAIL, go around and try it again.
No we can land anywhere.
Also something to note, at Elstree when this video was published, the centre line was chock full of potholes and many pilots feared damaging their nose gear and would deliberate land slightly off centre line to protect them.
why don't you fly final on the center line what about crosswind correction ? why do u land on the right side of the runway ? you should take some classes , you are not a safe pilot. you did this on both landing , both were poor crosswind handling .
Hello Random user, Thank you for you insight, I take it you have 100 or even 1000s of hours of perfect landings? I could suggest you read my replies to some of the other comments, But I could start by pointing out the title of the video? It does say how NOT to land...... :-) But thank you for your comments....
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot I don't want to only see perfect landings - I want to see landings like you did in this video too - it helps us low time pilots to be able to see what is good and what is bad, what works and what doesn't. Every pilot has screwups - the beauty of youtube is that we can learn from each other. Thank you WA Pilot.
Way way too fast. Keep the speed better. Also keep the centreline. This is not the most difficult plane to fly and land. Concentrate. Another suggestion is to take som basic flyinglessons to get back on track.
Really? Thank you for your insight. I might point out that this was actually a video showing how not to land.......
65 kts is “Way too fast”?
Exactly! 🤣according to our POH 65kts is right on the button.
I don't know why the narrator is trying to talk over the audio. This makes it impossible to hear either. Why? Either mute the audio from the recording, or provide text. I have no idea what is going on in this video. I give it a D-.
You could of course switch the closed captions on :-)
@@WhiskeyAlphaPilot Closed captions on these videos don't work because they have to "listen" to the audio, just like I do! That's why I said, "provide text". You can add captions to the videos.
So your no good at flying, so what is the point of this video?
Well the fact the video is entitled ‘How Not to land’ as a demonstration of how things can go wrong, might indicate that reading comprehension might not be high up on your skills either. And I have no issue with flying, it’s the landing that confuses me - maybe with your years of experience you can give me some pointers? 🤪