Tragic Flight of the PC-12 Medevac- N273SM | Full ATC+On Guard Calls | Flight Simulator Re-enactment
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
- On February 24, 2023, a PC-12 Medevac flight with 5 on board crashed southeast of Reno, Nevada. With reported turbulence and icing in IMC conditions the events and ATC communications of the flight are summarized. The NTSB preliminary report and the ADS-B data from ADS-B Exchange were used to simulate the flight in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020.
The final NTSB report is pending at the time of publishing this video.
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Timestamps:
Intro 0:07
Taxi 1:19
Cleared for takeoff 3:49
Flight Path Climb 5:31
Turbulence warning + Last transmission 6:28
Aircraft deviates off course 7:11
Incredible descent rate 8:02
Radar contact lost 8:46
On Guard 9:12
What went wrong 12:54
At issue 13:45
(Condolences to all the families associated with this accident)
ADS-B Exchange: www.adsbexchange.com
National Transportation Safety Board: www.ntsb.gov/investigations/P...
Music:
A Kind of Hope by Scott Buckley
Ethereal by Punch Deck
Labile Polvere by Mattia Vlad Morleo
We Are Saved by Borrtex
#planecrash #emergency #documentary
I work with a neighboring Medevac company; I work in operations for rotor and fixed wing flights. That night I was working and that patient was our patient at first, but our PC12 turned down because Ely airport had so much snow they could not open the hangar door, I looked at the weather all afternoon in Reno and it AWFUL! A SIGMET for severe turbulence and AIRMETS for IFR/Mountain Obscuration and icing were prevalent. I heard about the accident after my shift from a friend (who worked for Guardian) and I was devasted. All of us in the comm center were pretty shaken by it and it was a rough few days for sure. I sometimes wonder if that could have been our plane.
Thanks for your sincere comments. That must have been a shaking experience learning about the news so close to home. Very informative to get the true facts about the severity of the weather. Having severe turbulence reported (not light or moderate) plus the icing and significant snow puts a very different light on the decision as a GO or a NO GO. Thanks again and all the best. I have pinned your comment for a period of time.
@@TheFlightLevelVery well done video sir! Just subbed! Keep it up! And thanks for not overpowering the m usic.
@@billcallahan9303 Thanks very much! I appreciate the support. We try our best to balance the music with information. Blue skies!
I fly as a Paramedic on a PC12 and I would agree with the point that sometimes when weather is that poor its a no-go and its best for everyone to wait 12 hrs until better conditions. Most programs use a 3-to-go, 1-to -say-no system, meaning any crew member can say no at any point. There have been times my pilot said yes but I or my nurse said no due to poor weather. There was no pushback and the decision was respected. Medical crew members should always be knowledgeable and informed about the weather and speak up when things don't seem right, if we couldn't even taxi Id say its time to head back to the ramp and take the patient back, try again tomorrow. Condolences to all involved, hard to watch.
Thanks so much for your first hand experience adding to the conversation. So true about not even seeing the taxiway properly - decision made to turn back. I have pinned your comment! Blue skies.
The taxi part, that was a for sure no go. 😔
@@TheFlightLevel I think the other problem is overconfidence in the PC12. It being certified for day and night single pilot IFR and to fly into known icing conditions... They are out in bad weather all the time with a single pilot and successfully completing the missions. That being said the single pilot really isn't set up for success if they experience something like an autopilot failure at night in bad weather. Unfortunately most air medical programs don't have the budget or pilots for two pilot operations but it would definitely improve safety.
I also flew as a flight Paramedic, and agree with Montanamedic 100%. We also used a 3 to go, or 4 in the Diamond Jet, and 1 to no… I flew on the Bell 212, and the Mitsubishi Diamond Jet… I never encountered any pushback by any crew member on a decision to turn back, and I certainly never pushed back… It only happened occasionally, but when you fly a 212 into a fog bank @1500-2000 feet agl, in the hill country, it’ll get your attention… I can’t imagine a chopper in mountains.
Condolences to the crew and passengers of this flight.
My working career, after Fire/EMS, “offshore drilling,” ended with me flying first in a crew helicopter with CPR on me taking place, along with AED defibrillations, 2 days in a Trinidadian hospital, and then a Jet flight with Reva Air, from Trinidad to Ft. Lauderdale, followed by another jet flight with Reva air from Fl to Texas… I shouldn’t be here, but I am due to the hard work of a lot of folks from Trinidad to Tx… I can state, it’s better being upright treating a patient than it is to be horizontal and being treated… 2.5 weeks unconscious, 60 days in 5 hospitals, in two countries and two states…
Side note, it’s a great big world, but a small family… Reva Air is where a close friend of mine was a Command Pilot before he was killed in a car crash. All of the crew on both flights I found out later were also friends of his and had flown with him many times.
@@Firedog9100 Thank you for your story. What an experience and great to hear your spirit and journey with folks that made it possible. I have come to realize that these videos not only convey aviation events but provide a window for some to open up with thanks about their journey with a happy ending. Blue skies to you!
When the weather is so bad we can’t even navigate the taxiway (to get to the runway)…. we may want to delay until the weather improves
Fabulous comment! You wonder what must have gone through the pilot’s mind at that time missing the taxiway. The pressure to fly despite various warnings for a troubled flight. Thanks for watching!
My dad flew corporate for a number of years. He was flying his boss and a number of execs from Texas to North Carolina. The wx was deteriorating along the way, so he decided to land in New Orleans. He got an updated wx brief and decided to layover for the night. His boss was po’d and started bitching about how he had a meeting the next morning and had to be there. My dad pointed at the plane and told him, “If you’re going in that plane, you’re going without me.” So they got hotel rooms and stayed the night. The next day they got together for breakfast and my dads boss apologized to him. He told my dad that he hired him to make that kind of decision and from now on there would be no argument. If you say we can go, we go, if you say we can’t, then we don’t. Pop flew for years with them.
Thanks for taking the time to tell us this story! What a heart felt sensible decision. No meeting is worth playing the odds against increased weather risk for flight safety. Cheers!
I was there right after the accident. You couldn’t see your hand in front of your face. The after mate was so hard to see. Remsa stopped all flights for a couple of days and we had a memorial service at the hospital helo pad
Thanks for watching! Your words certainly add to the mood and atmosphere related to the entire story. Best regards!
What is an “after mate”
We aren’t all pilots yaknow
@@travelwithtony5767 Think he meant aftermath.
@@MichaelR-pk8zu
I think he just made up the story.
lol
@@travelwithtony5767doughball.
I agree with you about the urgency of patient transfers (13:51). I fly HEMS and can tell you it happens every day. A facility will call for aviation at 0300 with a request for a transfer that just has to be flown immediately. Really frustrating when you get there and the patient gets up out of the hospital bed and walks over to your gurney and lays back down. The majority of the time it’s just a doctor who merely wants to clear the bed and get rid of a patient. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen patients who could easily wait until morning or gone by ground.
Thanks for your insight and experience! I was hoping to get some confirmation in relation to the urgency aspect. So, so tragic for pushing an unnecessary time frame if this was indeed the case for this flight. Blue skies for your helicopter flights!
I concur. Flight medic going on my 28th year. It has only gotten worse in my career.
The number of times I had a patient WALK on to the plane...maddening. I'm sure it's even worse for you whirly-gig guys. It's all a liability-dodge, and we're all paying for it.
@@matthewcoleman1919 yup. Super frustrating to fly out to pick up a patient who clearly doesn’t need a helicopter. Can’t tell you how often it happens where the patient is looking around all excited, having a good time like they’re on a ride at the county fair. There needs to be some kind of decision matrix in the process that will tell the doctors “no, that situation does not warrant an aviation asset”.
Hey clown shoes, how about you stick to flying the planes and let the doctors make the medical decisions?
This is the part where you tell me you know more than the doctors?!? The ignorant arrogance in this thread is absolutely ridiculous...
Fast forward April 2024 a Turbo Commander 690, single pilot descending over the Banning Pass IMC in icing, possible autopilot disconnect with loss of control, sounds tragically familiar.
Single pilot. Night. Severe weather. Severe Turbulence. Don’t go.
Several in the last few months did same, and died.
Not “severe” weather. No mention of more than light to some moderate turbulence.
Weather well within the capabilities of the aircraft. I have flown the PC12 in similar conditions at night many times it’s designed for this kind of flying
Within the capabilities of the aircraft but not the pilot, clearly. Tragic.
@@PNGPilot91 I'm sure the dead pilot said the exact same thing.
The PC-12 along with the other similar single engine turboprops are very capable aircraft. But they do have thier limits as recent accidents have shown. The efficiency of the single engine design seems to promote the ‘efficiency’ of single pilot operations.
I can only hope that the management of these operations will begin to look more critically at the ORM of these flights. Or maybe the insurance companies will step in and require some improvements.
Thank you for a very well presented recap.
Thanks for visiting and commenting. The PC-12 is definitely a capable aircraft as you indicate. We can hope there is some movement to enhance the safety and lower the risk with improved measures/guidelines by the responsible parties.
I use to fly TBMs part 135, and the company specifically did not get the single pilot with autopilot opspec to force us to have 2 person crews on all 135 flights for the safety benifit, and so then the SIC, typically a someone newer pilot, could also build time and log it. Since the TBM and PC12 are single pilot only aircraft, you normally cannot log SIC time in it, only the PIC can log the time.
@@noelstoehr965 Great to hear the logistics of your flying experience! Blue skies!
Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. The weather was not bad at all for a PC12. The condition of the unplowed ramp has no bearing on flight conditions and did not affect the takeoff. Severe icing and/ or severe turbulence were not forecast. The PC 12 is certified for ice. Up until the pilot deviated course and became disoriented this honestly a normal flight. Any turbine or jet pilot has flown hundreds of these flights in similar conditions. There is nothing dangerous going on yet. IF the autopilot kicked off in icing or turbulence to begin the crash sequence, the pilot is at fault for not managing the icing correctly or becoming disoriented with the lack of automation.
And yet everyone is dead!
@@jerryclayton4616 I did not say nothing happened. Only that it was routine until something happened. This is also why two pilots in airplanes like this is much safer.
@@jerryclayton4616 settle down. We need to evaluate this accident with the information available, so that we can learn from this. Nonsequiter emotional outbursts contributes nothing to the conversation.
@747driver3...Great commentary..
Totally agree with you.....
I have to agree with you. Flying at night in the mountains and being IMC, these cancel each other out. Pilot is on instruments either way. Which ever kicked the autopilot off, ice or turbulence, the pilot should have watched and trusted the instruments. I think the pilot was in his late 20's and if so, he should be fairly fresh to instrument flying. In other words, how does a pilot get so quickly complacent with the use of an autopilot that a pilot forgets the fundamental of IFR flight? There were 2 or 3 crashes like this one in less than a year and I don't understand.
I think alot of people forget about the impact that turbulence can have on a flight. Sure, it more than likely wont create any structural problems or affect the airplane at all, but it greatly affects the pilot. In a already stressful situations of flying single pilot, IFR, at night, in the soup, adding moderate/severe turbulence on top of all that can really be the icing on the cake. The PC12 is not a very big aircraft, so when you get in some good turbulence, it really tosses you around, which can easily spatial disorientate the pilot, make it harder to read the flight instruments, harder to change radio freq/interact with the GPS, and just overall add alot more stress to the flight.
Thanks for your insightful comments! I think your words “icing on the cake” are so true about the situation in question. We certainly hope to see some initiatives to make similar flights safer. Cheers!
More like the straw that broke the camel's back, since icing on the cake would be a term used for something good that is happening. This icing is not good.
@@mediocreman2 Point well taken! Cheers!
It's hard for me to give a thumb up. But I give you my good will from my heart for gathering these informations in a devout manner.
No problem! Thanks for your good wishes! Cheers and blue skies!
When you click like 👍🏼 you help the channel. It doesn't mean that you "like" the tragedy but rather the channel owner's work. 😊
@@Alicia-BG Thanks for watching and thanks for explaining! It is funny about the dislikes on a video. The most inspirational and popular video on YT will have dislikes. I assume people hit dislikes because they can, not because of reason. They never leave a comment why they dislike the video. There is a 98% like rate for this video as I type this message, so we are in very good shape. Thanks again. Cheers!
@@TheFlightLevel you're very welcome 🙂
Juan Browne posted an 'Earwitness' audio clip from a rancher near the crash site. The sound of the engine over-revving then later going silent is quite hard to listen to.
Just eerie and other bad feelings.
This will be quite challenging to listen to:
ruclips.net/video/6-E6cUXL0K8/видео.html
I flew bank checks, single pilot, before GPS, for four years in Lances and Aztecs. We flew in the most extreme weather you can imagine. It was insanity.
And, I was in Reno last week in an A320, and we had to go-around due to LLWS. The turbulence there can be no joke.
The regs should definitely require two pilots for IMC, in any aircraft.
Thanks for watching and especially commenting. The mix of mountains and desert in Nevada can certainly make for some nasty wind and turbulence. Another vote for a 2 pilot operation in IMC conditions. Blue skies!
Not sure if two pilots would have made much of a difference in this scenario if they both would agree to takeoff. But I guess if the implication is that the presence of two pilots increases likelihood of vetoing the go decision than it would be advisable. Although there are plenty of historical examples of two pilot operations in which poor decisions are made that result in tragedy.
@@VoluntaryPlanet I was talking about in general. Yeah, not that it would have prevented this.
@@nuclearrabbit1 You only have to go about 10 miles from Reno over to Truckee to find an example of why even something as simple as 2 being better than 1 is of course not all that simple (N605TR)
@@VoluntaryPlanet If two pilots are less likely to fly in bad weather there is a problem with one or both of the pilots or the program itself.
Great video! So sad. Beautifully described. Thank you for providing the details .
Great to receive your comments! Risk awareness will hopefully enhance the safety of these flights. Cheers!
I was coming here to say exactly the same thing. It is always sad when any accident ends in fatalities, but the way this was presented was excellent.
@@TheGreyAreaBetween Thanks for watching and very glad you enjoyed the structure of the presentation! BTW cool user name!
@@TheFlightLevel Thank you for putting this together. You’ve done a fantastic job and I look forward to what is to come in the future. You certainly deserve the plaudits and appreciation for the work you’ve put into this.
As for the username, it was an extension of my band name ‘the grey area’, a name I settled on when trying to figure out what genre I fit into, that being the grey area between various genres whilst never really fitting any. I’m happy you like the name, it’s much appreciated. One day I’ll get round to doing some video work to post things on RUclips, but that’s a long way off right now I think (I’ve been telling myself I’ll get round to it for the past 15 years).
@@TheGreyAreaBetween Thanks again! I don't rush these videos out the door. Try to gather as much info as possible and edit down between 10 and 15 minutes. Sometimes you are rewarded. Cheers!
It looks like the plane hit in a flat spin rather than nose down.
The audio clip from a nearby residence was also very suggestive of a flat spin.
Great job on the video. Succinct information delivered with just the right amount of supporting info.
Thanks for the visit! I appreciate your words. Cheers!
The KFC325 autopilot in legacy pc12s like this /45 gives up in turbulence really easily. If you’re not ready for it, it will leave you hand flying in difficult conditions. You try to turn it back on and it will quickly disconnect again in turbulence. When teaching the aircraft placing emphasis on basic instrument skills with or without a flight director because of this quirk is critical.
Excellent point. It took about a minute for the airplane to resume the correct heading to the BLKJK transition after the first deviation. Wonder how many times the pilot tried to engage the AP after the first disconnect? Thanks for watching!
Was a flight medic on helicopter and global jet and a private pilot. Never shy about saying no-go and would never fly for a program that didn’t allow any crew member to reject the flight. Hate to lose colleagues. Godspeed my friends
Blocolierio (Juan Brown) has a video with ring camera audio on his RUclips channel and it's extremely disturbing. You hear the plane seemingly flying normally then you hear the engines begin to increase and a sound of the aircraft rapidly increasing speed, them the engines over rev with a sickening screaming sound then in the final 10 seconds the"woooomp woooomp" sound of a flat spin and then the stomach turning impact. It's not for the faint hearted but i recommend it to anyone who would like to know what consequences flying in those conditions can bring. I feel for the flight nurse and patient that were the unfortunate innocent victims and my heart breaks for the pure terror that they most definitely experienced in those final seconds of they're lives. RIP.
First time watching this channel, definitely earned a subscribe. Great quality!
Thanks very much. I appreciate your support! Quality over quantity! Cheers!
I suspect icing more than turbulence. Moderate turbulence may have been present, but the sudden turn is indicative of autopilot disconnect and a wing drop.
You may have hit the nail on the head, disorientation on the ground caused by snow did not unduly phase the pilot and he corrected it, so I think that there is something missing.
My suspicions are that the rudder or elevator started jamming due to ice or snow. In this situation, attempts to clear them by movement can make things a whole lot worse.
If the aircraft was not responding to inputs normally, they should have aborted the flight and got back on the ground.
Sadly we will never know whether the pilot was in this situation, but I would have thought that the pilot was unable to carry out the correct first rule in an emergency, which is to manually fly straight and level. Needless to say, that is assuming that you are not heading towards high terrain.
That was my thinking too when I watched Juan's analysis with the ADSB data: icing. However, the initial turn was corrected. What happens later is less clear. This story does not show it but not long after the suspected autopilot disconnect, and subsequent heading departure and correction, there are large variations of speed that are not accompanied by the expected variation in altitude, i.e. speed getting very low, as in a high pitch up attitude, but without the climb that should happen if trading a/s for altitude with preserved climb power. That is very suspicious for a sharp decrease in performance as seen in severe ice contamination. A possibility would be propeller icing and the associated vibrations, which would have led the pilot to reduce power while simultaneously pitching up to maintain altitude. Another is tailplane icing, ever increasing force to keep a level attitude until running out completely, and a subsequent tailplane stall, leading to the extreme nose down attitude necessary to build enough a/s for inflight breakup.
@@pchantreau So many unanswered questions. My thoughts were that ice on the tailplane jammed the rudder and elevators. We have no detailed information on the situation in the cabin. If the patient was on a table prepped for surgery, this could have rolled forward upsetting the trim.
In reality, their was probably a combination of circumstances that brought the aircraft down
Great work again! :)
Hey, good to have you on board for your support! Cheers!
Excellent.Video and narration. I like your last point about having 2 pilots on board in IMC conditions where the workload could be higher and more stressful on the pilot. In those type of conditions, anything can go wrong. My condolences to the families of the families of the victims! In a high workload environment, 2 pilots may have made the difference but it is only speculation.
Thank you for watching and commenting. Certainly, a second pilot can make a significant impact on reducing the stress and workload, especially for IMC flights. Extremely unfortunate that we will not have a definitive answer for this flight. PS: You may want to check the first two words of your comment (highlighted to a link?)
Or a second pilot would just have added another fatality. Look at all the two pilot crew aircraft that crash.
Night flying in the mountains and nasty weather, that's 2 out of 3 strikes. That's a no go. RIP to all. That poor patient.
right. maybe go. but hand fly the plane. perfect example of automation overuse. Never use AP with icing and or heavy turb. I have run into severe turbulence before. it is not recommended. but if you are hand flying, and have the correct speed for the airplane, it does not have to end like this.
Having flown out that way, my first question to the weather briefer, what are the winds across Slide Mountain? If they were strong, expect strong turbulance.
Juan Brown covers this one on his channel. In it, he plays audio recorded on someone's Ring camera and the sounds that aircraft makes in its last few seconds is chilling.
Absolutely! As if the turbulence wasn’t enough, just chilling to imagine the last 30-60 seconds of the aircraft descent for all on board.
Having flown as both a freight dog and Medevac pilot I'll add two different thoughts.
1) Flying the airplane....Whether the AP kicked off or was turned off that should not have caused spatial D. The PC-12 has excellent glass AHRS presentation. This kind of flying requires strong instrument skills. The pilot should have been able to control and hand fly the airplane given the instrumentation at hand. We didn't even have AP's on our freight planes and it was not unusual hand fly on steam gage's for an hour or more. It takes total focus but very doable. Now if he iced up and stalled out thats a different story. Single pilot medevac was the most demanding flying I ever did . It was very rewarding in many ways but I wasn't particularly sorry whenI moved on.
2). With regard to pressure. I can confirm despite any denials by med transport companies there is tremendous pressure to fly. It's all about money of course. If you don't fly the mission the company doesn't get paid for it. And believe me if you turn down a flight YOU WILL get a call from the the operations manager (who is a pilot) wanting to know why. We used the three to go one to say no policy as well but in my whole time in the industry I never had a med crew member say no. They are under the same scrutiny.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your insight!
Been flying Fixed Wing and RW EMS for decades. 40 years as a pilot with over 11K hours. I NEVER HAVE HAD WEATHER DECISIONS SECOND GUESSESD. EVER. If anyone has their weather decisions second guessed as a pilot RUN! The safety culture is severely lacking.
@@heartlandhawk4513 Glad you worked for more ethical companies/company than I did. The safety record industry wide is terrible. Especially among the rotors. It didn't break my heart that after a year of EMS I was able to move on. And heres the kicker....the poor patient who is already sick or injured thinks they are on their way to better treatment and then they end up dead.
Transmitting to a ghost ship on the guard channel is a depressing process.
@ 14:33 the photo on the aircraft wreckage on the ground looks like a flat spin crash and not a nosing down impact. Auto pilot trips off, spacial disorientation, stall then game over for single pilot.
They say it's safer to fly but just take a good look at this damage,,,,I'm not yet convenced of that !
I was on duty farther North that night. No one seems to remember there was a sigmet for severe turbulence that evening. Given the current conditions at departure and enroute, I probably would’ve declined the flight. I laugh when I hear these keyboard pilots talk about how unsafe night, IMC, icing, and single pilot ops are. Yet, here we are doing it every night at 0300 all winter. This job definitely isn’t for everybody including weak pilots.
I am glad you said this. I totally agree.
October 19 2004, I was on reserve with Corporate Flight Management, a Part 135 operator based in Smyrna, TN. the night Corporate Airlines flight 5966 crashed, killing 13 people on board a Jetstream 31.
Dispatch calls me and tells me to launch for Kirksville, MO. with 8 VIPs from Corporate Airlines on board. (The chief pilot, DO, a couple mechanics, Jimmy Hoffa, ect....you know the drill)
I'm flying a King Air 200 single pilot.
When I checked the weather in Kirksville, the birds were walking. Zero visibility.
When I told dispatch the weather conditions at the crash site, they said "Go part 91"
I said no.
Of course I was in trouble for turning down a flight, but neither the DO or Chief pilot would accept the flight either...
One of the reasons Corporate Flight Management made it to Argus Platinum level was because of my flying experience and total time.
However, now they wanted to launch into zero/zero on a part 91 flight at 2 am.
I had been flying too long to dignify their horrible decisions.
Thanks very much for your very descriptive story. Great to hear how these experiences shake down. You are here to tell your adventures because of informed risk aversive decisions. Cheers to you!
No will ever know what the outcome would have been in the case of single pilot vs two pilot scenario, aircraft have also been loss with two pilots in similar conditions. Thinking of those who lost their lives in this accident and their families, may they rest in love and peace.
Surprised the craft was found in that condition. 32k per min decent is crazy. RIP to all on board.
Appreciate you caring enough to spell Medevac correctly.
Thanks for watching! Quality over quantity! Cheers!
Couldn't find the taxiway was probably the first sign to head back to the gate.
My condolences to all. I'm a bit shocked how intact most of the airframe and cockpit was.
I was a certified flight nurse in New Zealand for a few years, flying both fixed and rotary wing, primary and IHT. Most of our work was pilot and nurse only, no doctor (unless the patient was tubed) and we didn't have paramedics (extra weight with no added value). The pressure to go was immense not only from the hospital but also from the Air Ambulance management - no fly no fee. I constantly pushed back against management, and would always tell the pilot to blame me for the no go decision if the weather crapped out. I ended up being stood down for my last flight, but nearly 20 years later, I'm still on the right side of the grass.
Thanks for your words and perspective! Getting some terrific stories with this video. Understandable about upper management pressure to fly; but improved operations and decisions need to outweigh unnecessary risk. Glad to hear you are on the right side of the grass with your excellent risk management decisions! Fabulous!
Did you FLY fixed wing and Rotary Wing? Or did you fly IN fixed wing and rotary wing?
@@heartlandhawk4513 We all fly in the aircraft, just depends on which seat you keep warm while flying, some right, some left, some in the back with the cargo.
So sad to see the multitude of decisions that, with hindsight, make it easy to say “just wait for another weather window.”
0:14 P.S. One of the text lines indicate this took place during ‘Daylight Savings’ however, February occurs while ‘Standard Time’ is in effect. Just a note on an otherwise good video. Subbed.
Thanks for your comments and support. Yes, error on the time zone notation. Good catch! Once in a while the odd mistake slips through the editing. Cheers!
@@TheFlightLevel Absolutely understand. Outside of that I liked the vid (and time standard is not a huge impact such as forgetting about victims during these breakdowns as I've seen in other productions.)
QUESTION: How did you produce the sim. Is that DCS or something else?
@@skibum415 The sim is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. Thanks again for watching and commenting!
Very tragic for all 5. Icing is the #1 issue with almost all crashes in wintery weather...😕
Thanks for commenting! Perhaps the pilot was not ahead of deicing. As you indicate, icing can bring down a plane very quickly.
Any info on if de-ice/anti-icing were done prior to departure?
Thanks for visiting! I am not aware of any de-icing or anti-icing info for this flight. Perhaps someone from the Reno airport can chime in about de-icing protocol for the Medevac flights.
Nothing is as eerie and terrifying as unanswered radio calls.
I was flying that evening . We made reports of severe turbulence. We landed at our destination south of Reno. Went to our hotel being overwhelmed.
Next day we heard the news about medevac going down somewhere by Reno.
RIP
Thanks so much for your first hand experience. As you mention, severe turbulence puts a different light on the exact weather conditions. Overwhelming is a great descriptive in addition to the stress encountered in flight. I have personally returned to my departing airport a couple of times due to unexpected severe turbulence. Glad everything worked out for you on that flight. It shakes you. Blue skies!
Cheers
Too slow for too long on autopilot in icing conditions. Just say no. Turbulence and chop all day. Stay home. Stay in the hospital. Stay above ground.
I remember talking about 8 hr max single pilot ifr in ground school.
Flying in northern Canada, i learned real fast about that max.
Solo, no auto pilot, night, snow.
Terrifying for me.
I think second pilot for sure could of helped.
Second pilot for sure could have helped too.
Pacific Daylight Time in February??
Good catch. Should be Pacific Standard Time! Pacific Daylight Time (PDT) is a North American time zone in use from the second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November during Daylight Saving Time (DST). Pacific Standard Time (PST) is used during the remainder of the year. Thanks for watching!
If weather is so bad you can't even tell a runway from taxiway or see any indication lighting... yeah, probably time you need to keep parked on the ground. Obviously these are important flights, but there's not much point to trying to save someone's life by risking the lives of everyone on the plane, including that patient.
What medical care was in Salt Lake City that wasn't available in Reno ?
Absolutely. It is very difficult to understand the urgency to put the patient through a known turbulent flight at the minimum, let alone the outcome.
This happened near my house. Driving was not advised by local authorities that night.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment. Cheers!
Renown Regional Medical Center in Reno, is a level 2 trauma center, with comprehensive medical facilities. There was no need to fly this patient to Salt Lake City, on a stormy, snowy
night. Poor judgment all around, with tragic results.
I think you are 100% correct from the info available. There was no urgency to fly in poor weather conditions. Logistics and risk management really need to be evaluated when human lives are put at risk above safety and transport urgency.
Im guesimg no one has heard the security footage of this accident ? Its awful. You hear him navigating in out of the range of the camera. Then you hear the dive begin the engine screams until you hear the sound of the prop coming off. Then you hear the in flight breakup sequence.
I don't understand (not a pilot here) did the weather cause the plane to break apart in flight or did the pilot do something wrong? The video mentioned spatial disorientation. What was the cause of the crash?
Hopefully the final NTSB will shed more light on the exact cause(s). The in-flight break up occurred during the final minute during the rapid descent when the plane entered the spiral. The airframe was overstressed with the excessive G forces.
Get their itis on full display. Lost on the ground before departure is a sign the flight isn’t gonna go very well. If the visibility on the ground is that bad how’s it gonna be up there? BAD
last radar 32 k per minute but the wing and windshield still intact how is that possible
I thought the same thing when seeing the right side of the windshield intact! So much of the airframe ripped and twisted and/or separated. Can’t answer that one!
There’s a video out there from a security camera capturing the sound of the plane starting to increase, rising and falling as if in a slow turn.
The sound picks up again but increasing rapidly then followed by the high screaming pitch as the prop over-speeds, starts a rapid spin then the loud CRACK as it hits the ground😢
Also not mentioned here was the fact that air transport was not needed and that ground transport would have been fine, albeit longer.
Not 100% sure with this one but air medivac dispatchers will go ‘shopping around’ if one company refuses due to weather conditions they will just keep trying until they find one who puts profits ahead of safety.
There have been several crashes in the industry due to this type of practice.
Thanks so much for taking the time to post your thoughts. If you are correct about the air transportation not being needed, this is all the more tragic. I wondered when making the video if the necessity for air transportation was made public. We can only hope that awareness here will change policy to reduce/prevent these accidents.
Well, I can tell you the exact medical condition of the patient now.
Former flight medic and current pilot here. We had the “3 to go- 1 to say no” rule.
If you can’t see the taxi way due to snow - no!
Reno has good hospitals. Delaying a transfer to SLC from Reno would not be a significant issue as far as patient care.
Hey Scooter,
I guess you've seen it all, haven't ya'?
Even with a lite dusting of snow on a dark night, could obscure the taxi stripe-- I've seen it several times...
You must have too with your vast Aeronautical experience--
So why the need to talk smack about a pilot who was working to help save someone's life??
You're a real jewel 😊
And the trouble with letting medics and nurses make decisions about what weather is safe to fly in, is like me (the pilot) telling them how to care for the patient!
At some point, people need to stay in their lane and recognize that they have a very limited knowledge of a topic.
My nurses, and paramedics trusted me to know what was safe-- and I took that extremely serious.
Nobody likes being scared in an airplane
Dual pilots in these challenging conditions might’ve made a difference. Would’ve made the work load a lot less.
The horror of the fall 😢
Yes, very chilling to think about the last 30-60 seconds in such an accelerated descent.
The fatality rate of medi-vac flights definitely needs to be balanced against the urgency of the patient. I may have worded this badly, but I hope it makes sense.
Thanks for joining in! We know exactly what you mean. It is very difficult to imagine the urgency that resulted in losing 5 individuals rather than waiting for better weather.
What I'd like to know is how many of these comments are from ACTUAL Certificated Commercial or ATP pilots with several thousands of hours in the NAS,. and several thousands of hours in hard IFR and several years operating under Part 135 or Part 121?
I like the way you think! I wish more people would (could) think.
I was an Air Ambulance pilot, flying this very aircraft, and her sister ship 5SM. based there in Reno.
We flew in bad weather all the damn time! Ever been to Reno in the Winter time?? Ask the Donner party 😅
These people were working to save someone's life!
Imagine calling and needing an Ambulance, and they tell you to "hang in there little camper, until the weather gets better"
Lots of people second guessing-- very sad 😢 and extremely disrespectful.
Like Kobe’s flight. Have a line you won’t cross even if it goes good 99% of the time
Sad
370 mph going into the ground.
What is with these PC-12 and variants, the sky is raining them lately -- there was just another one two days ago and several before that.
They are being flown poorly.
Should have delayed departure or cancelled the flight.
Not a pilot. What is IMC conditions and what is guard?
Instrument meteorological conditions - you fly by referring to the airplane panel gauges. On guard refers to pilots and air traffic controllers that transmit on a frequency in attempt to contact an aircraft that is not responding.
I have time flying 3SM for Summitt Air Ambulance--
So much of our flying is at night, usually in bad weather, in Mountainous terrain.
You got to remember that when someone needs to be flown out,
It probably isn't the best day of their lives, and you can't wait for a beautiful VFR Day, to fly them to better care.
I'm willing to bet something very bad happened to the pilot while climbing out--
(Did anyone notice that the pilots windshield was missing 😮) and
That big, and tightening sprial is what happens when no one is manipulating the controls.
I believe something very bad, and very fast happened to this poor pilot.
Everyone seems to want to blame the pilot-- what if he was doing everything right?
The fact that he didn't get to make any kind of distress call is very telling.
2:50 plowed*
Copy! That is my British versus American English shining through. Thanks for watching!
To break up a PC12 like that takes some doing, I ride in the 12 NG weekly and it is the bread and butter of our business, I’ve never known a more rugged and well designed aircraft but even a tank will be torn apart by the worst of Mother Nature, there is often the question of the effect of single crew in PC12 incidents but it is so easy to fly in most cases I don’t think it should be a factor. Dual crew on this flight I don’t believe would have made any difference but to add weight.
are u the ntsb
Thanks for watching. No, I am not the NTSB. I just use the information in the public reports to summarize the flights.
@@TheFlightLevel u have ntsb logo
@@holobolo1661 Yes, important to credit the appropriate authorities for your source material with authenticity.
@@TheFlightLevel wow they gave it to u thats so cool. maybe one day u can work for them. good job
As a pilot, you alone are the last authority of your safety of flight. No flying job is worth your life, except a military offensive. This flight should have never left the ramp.
Thanks for watching! The majority here share your view. Someone indicated that this flight was not urgent and the patient could have been transported by ground or the next day. All the more tragic if this was indeed the case. Cheers!
Bloody dangerous scenario! SE, SP, night, crap WX! Too risky!
Thanks for watching! Yes, very hard with the criteria you list to come out logging a successful flight every time under turbulent IMC conditions.
How can a plane crash in just turbulence in 2023? There is more to this story.
No one said turbulence was the cause of the
@@sixwillwin They said turbulence knocked off the auto pilot and then the pilot got special disorientation.
@@MidnightWarrior1976 nobody knows because the pilot is dead. And you don’t need an auto pilot to fly an airplane in turbulence. By definition, light and moderate turbulence is almost an every day occurrence.
@@sixwillwin The video specifically said that turbulence knocked off the auto pilot which then left a confused cockpit who went down from the EXTREMELY COMMON spatial orientation. (JFK Jr.) Exactly what part of that do you not understand?
@@MidnightWarrior1976 OK somebody on RUclips said it’s true so it must be. What do I know about it? I flew air ambulance in King Airs for 31 years! I’ve flown 8000 patients in those 31 years. Yeah I know a little bit about it….
Now tell me your qualifications? Oh, you watch RUclips. Got it.
😪
great recreation using MSFS
Thanks! MSFS is a great program to add an extra dimension of realism and presence to the story. Cheers!
Picking more than one or two of the following can kill: single pilot in complex aircraft, night, IMC, icing, turbulence.
There has to be an added level of pressure with an injured/sick passenger. Having to tell them sorry we won't be able to go knowing they are already in bad shape.
Telling them no is pretty common. The pilot does not know, nor do they care, about patient condition.
@@heartlandhawk4513 I'm saying that a bad pilot could let this cloud his judgement. That's what the E in PAVE is for
Maybe the pilot had a heart attack
Have no experience in Medevac but it sure sounds like there's a distinct lack of risk-benefit analysis here in this industry, where a patient and escort is unwittingly subjected to marginal flight with unnecessary urgency. Turbulence, icing, IMC, night... are all challenges, but all together? Not tonight thanks.
Thanks for commenting. Your key words are "unnecessary urgency". We can only hope that videos like this enhance awareness and move the powers to be towards safer guidelines for medical evacuations.
Sadly this bird should have never left the loading area,,,, but Im willing to guess, (many whom have worked any type of Meda-Vac will agree), when the call comes, you go!!!! Thats what WE signed up for, thats what WE do !!! But there has to be a line not to cross,,,, My best to the family, and my heart to the Nurse, Paramedic, and Pilot,,, may the Wings of an Angel gently hold you in Peace and Comfort
Seems odd how the aircraft crashed fully fueled at high speed without bursting into flames, and also how the wings stayed intact and in the horizontal position on the ground..looks like it pancaked right before it impacted the ground, although how that was possible after a vertical high speed downward spiral, is anyone’s guess.
The aircraft broke apart from exceeding its maximum safe speed before it hit the ground. An aircraft hitting the ground in several pieces in free fall is gonna have less energy than an aircraft hitting the ground in one piece with the engine running.
Imagine being the family member flying with the patient thinking all is well and we are on the way to getting better then this happens.
This industry, from paramedics to the pilots who fly them are to blame.
So you can't find the runway but say, oh what the heck, lets do it. Turn on auto-pilot, then hit some ice and turbulence- ap kicks off- then can't hand fly it in severe conditions, get's disoriented and crashes. Not good.
this are toys and not tools to operate in such conditions !!
Pilots don't get paid sitting on the ground. That's the root-cause.
You don't know what you're talking about.
These "hero pilots"crash way to often.Especially the helicopters.
As a non-pilot, just a commercial passenger all I can say is Reno should be shut down as a commercial airport!
EVERY flight in and out of that place has been a sickening roller-coaster!
If he was in a cirrus he could have hit the level blue button. Buy a cirrus people. I fly a cirrus and can fly anywhere, any time and with anyone. I also have a parachute. If you can’t afford a cirrus, stay on the ground. I just flew my neighbor who has Alzheimer’s to her home town and made lots of dough….17k usd. I live in Medellin Colombia