PC12/45 Guardian Flight Security Camera Crash Audio
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This Audio collected from a security camera (Dave from Stagecoach NV.) within 1/4 mile of the crash site provides a mountain of data to NTSB Accident Investigators. There was no video of the crash- too dark and snowy. Let's break it down...
Before asking any questions already covered, be sure you have seen ALL the videos (2 others) in this series.
Part I: • PC-12/45 N273SM Guardi...
Part II: • PC-12/45 NTSB UPDATE I...
NTSB B-Roll: • NTSB B-Roll: Investiga...
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Juan can you do a video about how you're dealing with the extended power outage?
Juan, do you believe that the public, in general, are entitled to hear the dying sounds of crew and passengers for their enjoyment?
@@mtkoslowski I don't think "enjoyment" is the right word. "Morbid fascination" seems more appropriate. Only a sadist would enjoy the dying sounds of anyone. And in this case, it's the sound of a plane dying.
@@blueeyeddevil1
No.
I would not be outraged had there not been discussion in other comments about applying sophisticated audio filters in an effort to isolate mechanical sounds from occupant generated noises. See for yourself.
Hi Juan, I agree that the AP likely disengaged (first video). Perhaps due to turbulence. If the aircraft had the original KFC 325 Automatic Flight Control System, the Pilots Guide on page 2-19 states: "The KDC 222 also contains a monitor that can be used to disconnect the autopilot if vertical acceleration of the aircraft exceeds a set limit determined during autopilot certification" . Additionally, I don't know if the AP is one of the items that is automatically shed in the event of the loss of GEN 1. Note: Unless it was upgraded, GEN 2 isn't capable of operating the de-icing equipment without overloading.
This is absolutely heart wrenching to listen to. I lost my son in a King Air crash 11/15/2021 in northern Michigan. This is the first accident related report that I’ve listened to since losing my son and I have to say, this is very difficult to digest. Being a corporate pilot myself, I am very familiar with all of this subject matter. I’ll be praying for the family who is grieving for the loss of this pilot. My son was only 21 and working on his Private pilot license. Never in a million years did I think I’d lose him in an airplane accident, I’ll never be the same that is for sure. Please pray for the pilot and passengers if any and his/her family. 🙏🙏
Prayers for you and your family.
Prayers for you brother
God bless your family, and prayers go out to you!
🙏🏼🙏🏼😔💜
The FAA could change many things very quickly and make flying a lot safer, but they don't. Follow the money, and you'll understand why.
As a medical crew member who regularly flies on a PC12 that was the toughest thing I have ever listened to. I've been in severe turbulence at night in weather and Im sure that med crew was holding the patients hand and reassuring them right up until they went into a spin.
That was sure a sickening sound to me. Thank you FO Browne.
Agreed
I was going to post the same comment. Very difficult to listen to.
indeed... 😟
It gave me the chills listening to that, RIP to all onboard.
Listening to that was spine tingling, as you think of those on board and what they must have been thinking. RIP to the 5 people who died.
Chilling, thank you for reporting the facts and explaining the sad situation so sensitively. RIP to the victims.
One needs to analyze tragedies dispassionately or one risks repeating them.
Incredible that a security camera was able to capture the audio so clearly and definitively
That’s what I was thinking! Amazing it could catch that at 18,000+feet.
Sound travels exceptionally well in a damp atmosphere,
It's called having 24-hour cameras than this motion clip crap.
I have a couple friends in fixed-wing medevac. Those guys are under horrible pressure to take flights because lives are literally on the line.
We consider the "minor" pressure of "make mo money" to be enough risk to good decision making that we require (and strictly enforce) higher standards of training and certification for pilots to fly for money. The added pressure of "bro someone will literally die if i decline this flight" is so great that I cannot see how we allow the pilot to make that decision at all. There needs to be someone in the loop whose job and authority is to say "better a dead patient than a dead patient AND a dead flight crew"
Thanks, Juan. Tough subject matter to cover, but you do it professionally and well. Good luck getting through the power out conditions.
Juan knows his stuff. During my IFR training, under the hood, the instructor gave me a complex problem to solve as we approached an intersection hold. As I approached the intersction/fix my mind turned to jello due to the complexity of the entry and my lack of experience. I completely lost it and had I been single pilot in actual IMC I am sure the outcome would have been tragic. It sure taught me a lesson about how easy it is to lose control when the situation exceeds my personal limits. Thanks for this graphic reminder.
Except the pilot here was not approaching an intersection hold…. the autopilot, if he had it on likely would have switched off due to turbulence. From there, it became a matter of believing in the instrumentation. That’s why they’re on the panel. Maybe pitot air froze. Maybe had instrument failure, but probably not.
@@marthakrumboltz2710 Maybe overwhelmed by ice.
@@Cwra1smith Juan said in a previous video he didn't think so due to the plane being in the hangar prior to takeoff and the deicing boot thingies on the wings' leading edges of this aircraft.
@@Cwra1smith A Pilatus being overwhelmed by ice is very far-fetched IMO.
@@mwhe3111 Having lived up north for much of my life I'd say that hangaring an aircraft doesn't necessarily mean a positive effect. It can mean the opposite. At least with automobiles leaving a garage can have the opposite effect, meaning that snow/rain/moisture clings onto the surface and forms into ice there. A warm surface can melt snow and gather up that water somewhere for it to then freeze. Also bringing a car from the cold into a garage can mean moisture being trapped in many places, waiting to freeze once it's taken outside again.
A cold surface lets the snow just brush off, it doesn't cling, it doesn't interact nearly as much with the surface. A fully cold machine doesn't trap moisture all over, including inside small nooks and crannies.
I always feel so bad for the passengers. I had to look up the information. May they rest in peace.: 'A single-engine Pilatus PC12 was heading from Reno to Salt Lake City on Feb. 24 when investigators say it broke apart. It plummeted to the ground near rural Stagecoach, 40 miles (64 kilometers) southeast of Reno. The dead included pilot, Scott Walton, 46, and two medical crew members, Edward Pricola, 32, and Ryan Watson, 27. The patient was Mark Rand, 69. His wife, Terri Rand, 66, had been accompanying him.'
Yeah the FAA is really failing the public here. We've all had it drilled into us how astronomically safe flying is these days but the reality is that its pt 121 thats incredibly safe. 135 less so and 91 is basically motorcycling
@@AntonEMaes I'd disagree.
@@cefb8923 On what part do you disagree?
I cant help but wonder what was so urgent that they had to move the patient at that hour in low ifr. It’s not like they were going from a small rural city, how was there not sufficient care to wait until better conditions…
I agree with Greg Johnson. And why is it that you disagree? Enlighten us, or are you just trolling?
Here in New Zealand, we have a number of companies offering MediVac services. Most are single pilot operations. This is due to cost. Operators are constantly vying for business and cost cutting is the order of the day. So, single pilot operations are necessary to keep costs to a minimum. Its not surprising that safety is compromised. John Glenn was reported as saying "As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of rocket was supplied by lowest bidder." The same principle applies to MediVac. The service is supplied by the lowest tender for the work.
As a professional Pilot this was the most difficult thing to listening to the end.
I agree, and it is probably one of the most important. That's why they do case study reviews during recurrent training.
I feel you! My chest compresses listening to this and imagining the shear panic inside.
I was an air medical mechanic, had a B200 I was the only maintenance person for. Unfortunately the pilot shortage means they can't be as picky as they should be, and some pilots are behind the aircraft in certain situations, like night flying.
I spent a day or so trying to sort out an autopilot discrepancy that ultimately turned out to be that one of our pilots couldn't fly well at night and immediately after rotation, when the gear was retracted, he pitched down towards the ground, and only recovered when the copilot snapped at him to recover, otherwise this world have been a very bad day.
Disorientation is common, but trusting the instruments (glass panel) is critical
Unless of course there’s a static port blockage, for example. -CFI/A&P
@@Brad2117 I worked for a freight feeder before that, with a couple dozen twin turboprop planes, had a guy I knew, with thousands of hours of instrument instruction time, come work for us.
In his first week he had his HSI roll over in solid instruments, and even though he could see the flag, and realized that it was just rolling around, he chased it until he finally hit red line on the airspeed and saw his altimeter unwinding.
Luckily there were no mountains under him and he recovered in time, using the copilot horizon. He quit after that.
This comment and thread is unnerving (re pilot performance)
Thanks Juan for following up on this tragic crash, especially given your current, out of power, situation
Did you use the term current to drive home the condition or lack thereof?
Juan, I was talking with an A&P mechanic who works for Guardian Air at their repair facility here in Blanding, Utah about this incident, and he was telling me that some of their planes now have cameras in the cockpit. He was unaware whether or not this particular airplane did or not.
A couple of strategically located automotive dash-cams would go a long way to helping investigations. What are they, a couple hundred bucks?
@@jonathanrabbitt True - but would we be able to get data out of them after a serious crash like this? Part of the recording is to put the media in a really tough box back in the tail where it has a higher likelihood of surviving.
@@dermick Only a micro SD card needs to survive. it's a cheap interim measure.
@@dermick Yhe me ory cards can handle very hard crashes. It's fire they can't handle.
But one issue with many such devices is buffering - how many seconds of video that is kept in volatile RAM before written to the memory card. Buffering is common because it gives less wear on the memory card. But airplanes tends to crash way harder than cars so anything not written before the impact will be lost. In a car crash, the electronics will normally survive and have time to flush the last part to flash.
@@dermick I'm thinking that you could make a self contained unit based on an SD card that would survive most things. It wouldn't be perfect but if it had a camera that was mounted in the cockpit in such a way that it could see the instruments in the aircraft and a microphone that could pick up cockpit sounds and voices it shouldn't be that expensive to install in any aircraft and could easily be mandated for and plane flying people for money.
Hearing that crash audio was sickening, to get rid of the lower frequency put the audio through dehummer (Adobe Premiere audio filter) and pull down the lower frequencies to hear the engine and airframe noise only. I bet the FAA is looking really carefully at this Air Ambulance operation now, let's hope they set up some absolute minimum standards to stop these sorts of crashes
There are macabre sounds that anyone beyond the NTSB do not need to hear, don’t you think?
We’re adults and don’t need to hide from reality.
You have every opportunity to not watch the video. What did you think you were going to hear when he said they had the audio of the crash?
@@cfagerstrom
I expected to hear sounds relating to identifying the cause of the crash. I did not want to hear anything beyond that which might relate to the horror of the passengers and crew when they uttered their last sounds on this earth in the full knowledge that they were going to die, which sounds undoubtedly give erections to ghouls such as yourself.
Have you no shame man? Have you no humanity?
@@mtkoslowski no.
Layman here. I was medivac’d in May 2004 from JNU to ANC aboard a king air in IFR conditions. That flight had two pilots, a nurse, paramedic, and my wife. JNU has a sketchy departure and landings because of frequent wind sheer and mountainous terrain.
Is it now a cost-saving measure to have a single pilot? This is unconscionable.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why this sort of useful information is demonetized when they allow all sorts of garbage that is not the least bit useful. This type information can affect changes in operational procedures that saves lives.
There is no logic or rational thinking in San Fransisco where RUclips is HQ'd.
Advertisers don't want their brands associated with death or accidents. RUclips is not an educational platform, its an advertising platform.
Correct, If it can’t make money ,You Tube doesn’t want it..
@@LuvBorderCollies and there you have the major problem. Very well put.
@@jamesharris9816 brands are stupid. I’ll never understand the logic of “we don’t want our brand associated with”
Associated with? Like people are going to tie fucking Kellogg’s to plane crashes? Everyone alive knows the ads have nothing to do with the content of the video, people by the millions want to see certain content and represent a ton of eyeballs that could be seeing that advertising. Just moronic. Marketers need to be fired and forced to clean out septic tanks for the rest of their lives for ruining everything with their stupidity
@blancolirio the autopilot on the legacy PC-12 tend to give up easily in turbulence. I've experienced many an uncommanded disconnect in light - moderate turbulence in legacy birds.
I could easily see an unrecognized disconnect being the initial upset (out of trim and distracted while checking on the med crew/patient).
3,500 + hours in PC-12 day/night/IMC 135/91 mostly single pilot.
I have had exactly the same set of failures in a glider. I believe the failure sequence goes like this. 1. You are flying above a speed where sufficient g will result in the failure of a wing spar. 2. A violent g load is applied to the aircraft. 3. A wing spar fails. 4. The aircraft then violently rolls and keeps pitching and resulting in the combined aerodynamic loads on the tail surfaces now ripping it off in torsion. 5. The main mass of the aircraft spirals/spins to the earth. The tail section takes is own path down. We were lucky as we had parachutes.
Breaks my heart to hear. I was a pilot for this company. Didn’t know the crew but hurts no less.
Was Guardian cutting costs by flying single pilot when they should have been using two?
@@bs838 single pilot is standard.
@@boellis241 Worked out great in this case didn't it?
@@bs838 no it did not. It is not ideal, but it is industry standard.
@@bs838 "It works out much more often than not." - signed Beancounter If the cost of a human life goes up, we'll have to compute a new cost/benefit analysis.
Thank you for your updates, the patient and the patients wife were my stepdaughters grandparents, and they are looking for answers as soon as possible.
Our thoughts, prayers 🙏 & deepest condolences are with your family as well as the other families of those lost in this very sad & tragic accident 😢 🙏 💔 🕯🕊😭
I counted about 20 seconds from engine noise increase to ground impact. That would have been an eternity to those onboard who must have been aware they were in serious peril. The audio left me feeling shaken. Thanks as always for your calm insight into these incidents, Juan.
@@MrTaffiny1 if you have evidence that this pilot *intended* to kill those passengers (and himself) then you'd better put up or shut up. This channel is based on the evaluation of factual evidence to draw conclusions and learn lessons from aviation incidents. This accident was certainly tragic and unnecessary, and it may even be shown to be negligent. But just because it makes you angry doesn't support an accusation of murder. Put forth your evidence if you've got it.
@@MrTaffiny1 Right.... Never mind the hundreds of lives he helped save in the past....
@@toadamine To be fair, it's easy to wonder why it happened (as in 'seriously, my guy? Just pull up and reduce power, you dunce!'), but in a high workload environment like single pilot, IFR in cloud, at night, with high turbulence, maybe even icing in cloud to deal with, or, for a real treat, perhaps add an autopilot that decides it's had quite enough of being bumped around, and kicks off in a huff in the turbulence (not unheard of with some models of autopilot), which adds to the joys of said environment- basic control of an aircraft in such circumstances is not so easy in practice. If pilot spatial disorientation kicks in (most likely a big part of what happened), getting hard on those instruments, and staying level is JOB ONE. But if you're task-saturated, and your biological gyro set/brain connection has gone haywire on you, that's a seriously bad time.
As for what the pilot was 'doing that whole time' (I'm guessing you mean during those final 20 seconds or so?). If I were to speculate, the pilot was probably wide-eyed with terror, trying to pull out of the dive they unexpectedly found themselves in, and momentarily not knowing which way was up or down...the rest is too horrible to contemplate. The pilot was no demon, to be sure. They just got caught in a bad set of parameters.
Hope that answers your question? I tried to keep it short, but it didn't work, sorry man!
@@MrTaffiny1 I know, it's a horrible incident, and anger, even saying mean things, is understandable. Just as long as you understand that such incidents are much more complicated than all that. I don't condemn you for sharing your perspective. Just be careful with such off the cuff comments; aviation comment threads can be real hornet's nests; they're best not stirred unnecessarily. I've seen it; they can get ugly, right quick...
@@MrTaffiny1 I think you are the same account I questioned in an earlier video about this accident. You seem to like to run a harsh tongue without need for hard evidence to back your views on. Maybe it was some relative of yours on that plane, but that kind of language without actual evidence is rather bad.
Well said Juan! When I started as a flight nurse we had 2 pilots on our King Airs. As corporate greed took over that 2 pilot operation became single pilot. Keep it safe and professional.
In some areas there is a shortage of pilots. It would be impossible to conduct medi-flights if 2 pilots were required in those instances. We risk lives in order to save lives. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. Every flight is a calculated risk (as is driving your car). There is no such thing as a "safe" trip until the aircraft has completed a successful landing. Some are just less risky.
@@FRLN500 What the public doesn’t understand, is that the majority of air ambulance flights are not emergencies. There is still urgency in non-critical flights, and major hurry-up pressures on crews, but it’s 100% economic. If Covid taught us anything, it’s to always follow the money. And be wary of anyone who claims their motives are altruistic.
Sorry it's not always about corporate greed.Seesh.
The last few seconds of that audio are beyond terrifying. So, so sorry for the poor souls on board!
Thank you home owner to secure your security camera recording. I guess the NTSB will find this audio extremely usefull.
Man, I was just recalling those moments of the Galloping Ghost before you mentioned it in the video. Erie, memories; some of which I won’t ever truly forget. Interesting how this audio was able to pull those memories into my minds eye.
Wow, that sent chills. Reminds me of the Yorba linda Cessna 414A crash. With the Yorba linda crash, the plane at one point sounded like turboprop with just how fast the props spun for a piston. RIP to all.And as usual, great reporting Juan.
Posting vids even without power, what a champ!
He has a generator, plus the sun is back out. I heard Blan is Solar Powered.
Thanks for posting.
As an IFR pilot it's interesting that the AOPA review of this accident termed the weather not that bad and something these planes flew in every day.
Your summation suggests the weather was extreme and not something the med aircraft should be flown single pilot.
Two ends of the spectrum from two experts in the field.
I have to admit when I heard about the runway conditions, blowing snow, icing conditions, and forecast for moderate turbulence, I was kind of surprised with the AOPA opinion that these were not unusual conditions for this aircraft to fly in. It sounded bad too me.
The weather was awful in the audio it was hard to taxi because it had already covered back up in snow.
Man hearing that wwwooooowwwoooooowwww sound of the propeller increase to wowowowwow :( it made me have goose bumps all over my body as you knew it was the end. So unfortunate.. Thank you for the video review blanco. No doubt you are helping the aviation industry become better / safer
Professional as always. I even heard the sad outtro tune in my ears. Commisserations to all involved.
The wreckage photos are also highly illuminating - previously people had wondered how there could be relatively intact wreckage and no crater if the plane nosedived in as appeared on the radar, and this confirms he was actually in a flat spin after the vertical stab broke off. That squashed-looking wreckage is entirely consistent with such an impact.
Let’s never forget the full and total terror of people who are in these accidents. From minutes to seconds of fearing for your life thinking about, family and children and friends. To the exact split second when you know you’re going to die. Horrible
Thank you for this excellent analysis of an avoidable accident. No judgement on this pilot, just an unfortunate series of events that lined up all of the holes. RIP to all the victims and condolences to their heartbroken families.
We had a maxim we lived by when responding to serious calls as police officers: IN ORDER TO GET THERE FIRST, YOU FIRST HAVE TO GET THERE. Whatever the medical emergency was, I too have to wonder about the wisdom of attempting that flight, especially with only one pilot. That was some sickening audio. I pray the industry learns from its terrible mistakes. We've had some similar tragedies here in the Mid-Atlantic over the years, and the irony of surviving some sort of life threatening event only to lose it in a Life Flight crash is very hard to accept.
Thanks for your service as an LEO, Mike!
I was a paramedic for 30 years, with 7 of that as a flight medic in helicopters and sometimes fixed wing aircraft. There are 4 hospitals in Reno, and one in Carson City. There was absolutely no pressing need to attempt this flight to Utah in these weather conditions. That pilot should have declined the flight, and if he didn't, the nurse or medic should have said no. Most companies have a go no go policy that all crew members must agree to the flight, or it doesn't happen. Unfortunately, in some companies, even if it isn't outwardly required, you feel a pressure to take all flights. If not from the company, then from fellow crew members or even your own ego.
@@Skymedc Despite what helicopter pilots like to think about fixed wing operations, the helicopters are generally more dangerous. They are flying into more complex and difficult environments (namely off-airport roadsides, and pretty dangerous confined spaces at hospitals). Meanwhile, fixed-wing advanced turbocraft are merely going from one ordinary airport runway to another. Apples and oranges.
It will be interesting to learn the facts about this particular pilot and company operation. Especially with the advanced automation on this plane, such an accident is quite unusual. There are zillions of flights like this every day without incident.
I do think the commercial flights (on these kind of airplanes and light jets) ought to have some kind of recorders. They perhaps do not need to be the bulky boxes carried on airliners. Of course I just said a mouthful of expensive regulatory and industry proposal. I agree with the NTSB and Juan.
Needs two pilots..that's what Canada does..much safer.
@@fromtheflightdeck252 My question is why does current IFR training and testing constantly result in IFR-incompetent pilots?
I no longer trust pilots’ instrument ratings, and having two probably incompetent pilots up front is not much comfort. We have seen many tragedies proving that two incompetent pilots are no replacement for one competent pilot.
(To help the mass of incompetent pilots, should current instrumentation’s design be improved to give pilots the information in a better format?)
The sounds at the end were disturbing. At some point the people on board had have realized the end was near. 100% agree with your opinion on single pilot vs 2 pilot ops.
I would guess that passengers were experiencing weightlessness along with high G sensations.
But I don't understand how he couldn't correct attitude to straight and level, at least. Then trim it and get back to assigned altitude. Aviate, navigate then have a problem. He actually went to school, right?
Agreed, those sounds are horrible but I can honestly say It's still my preferred way to go, quick & no pain, fear yes but no pain.
@@cascade5682 spacial disorientation in a blizzard. He thought up was down. It happens. As Juan said, "If you don't think it can happen to you, you're wrong." That's why they need two pilots and to not take off in a blizzard.
I don't necessarily agree with 2 pilot operation but for sure specific training and experience requirements for FIKI operation. Reno is a no joke airport especially in bad weather. We call Reno and certain other airports "Special Qualification" airports at the airlines for a reason. The PC12 is a high performance airplane but very capable if you are well trained and proficient. I have over 3500 hrs PC12 time part 135, 91 with vast experience in all weather conditions single pilot and I trusted this airplane with my life and it never let me down. But I know what it can and cant do and many times Ive just got a hotel and flew the next day.
@@cascade5682 I would think that it also depends on when the plane lost the different parts. I would think that once those started failing it was beyond recovery. I'm sure he was also very task overloaded, which is why there should ALWAYS be 2 pilots!! And if you think abt what the centrifugal forces, g forces were putting on his body im guessing it would have been difficult to maneuver his body also. Think about trying to look at instruments and fly the plane while you're on the most violent g force producing part of a roller coaster ride. What can you do but be thrown around and just be 'along for the ride'.
Thank you Sir for your valiant efforts to keep us informed. Be safe.
I drove a ground ambulance back in the day and we drove under some rather tough conditions. If things got too bad, we could always pull over and wait for a snowplow or a sand truck depending on the conditions. I would think in a airplane, you would be so much more careful if only because the price of failure is so high. I hope the FAA finally gets these operators to have some common sense and be safer. Many times in training and briefings we were asked who the most important person in the room you want to get home at the end of the day. We would all raise our hands.
As a ex pilot for Guardian flight, I can tell you from a personal perspective, that guardian flight training was top notch and we valued safety over mission. Not saying we make errors in judgment, but don’t blanket the whole company as unsafe. Just my two cents.
@@thomaswoods3421 It isn't so much the company as it is the flight medicine industry. How many of these crashes in poor weather conditions before the industry does what is safest for the crew and patients? How many more EMS helicopters and airplanes have to crash? It also doesn't help that the industry is often a stepping stone for pilots because of pay and hours. Simple things like adding a second pilot, cockpit voice recorders, better pay, etc would go a long way to minimize fatalities.
@@CenTexPhoto I totally respect your opinion. But medevac is not a stepping stone. You need a minimum of 2500 hours to work for Guardian. The base pay is $112k a year. With the natural overtime with picking up extra days, brings the pay to 130k. Some pilots make around $180k or more. Just had to correct that statement. I agree with everything else though.
@Thomas Woods While Guardian may require 2500 hours, many other companies start from 1000-2000 hours. Our local rescue helicopter service, Travis County STAR Flight has a 3000 hour requirement. My understanding is that their most junior pilots hire on with much more than 3000. So while STAR Flight and Guardian up the flight hours requirement, many don't and that results in those organizations being stepping stones to better pilot jobs as they earn hours.
@@CenTexPhoto Gotcha. Sad state of affairs then
Thanks for keeping us up to date even through your natural handicap is limiting your ability….you are a trooper!
Juan, after watching your last video on this, in particularly in how the coms from the flight were normal, then no further transmissions - I'm curious if a total failure of the electrical system to include a failure of the instrument displays could have contributed to the spatial disorientation?
With the onset of all the glass cockpits in general aviation these days, I wonder how many have considered how their ability to control the aircraft in IFR conditions would be affected if all the pretty pictures went blank? One of the things I always drilled into my son's head when he was learning how to fly under the hood was to remember that if you don't have a autopilot and your hand flying, you need to realize the airplane is going to go which ever way you turn your head - which clearly fits the flight track of this flight.
Several years ago on the way to Shanghai headed for the north pole, I lost all the MFD screens in a 777 ... one of those moments that make you go "huh!" Anyway after dumping a lot of gas and returning to our departure station in the weather on that 3 inch wonder of a standby instrument - my point is that Boeing said that was a triple redundant system that could never do what it did - And yet what was never supposed to happen - happened!
You mean they don't also have old school instruments in there for redundancy? (Obviously not a pilot, but my dad flew back in the 70s & 80s)
No they had electrical power, otherwise there would be no ADS-B data! The transponder was working. Remember there was moderate to severe turbulence at the altitude he was passing through on that night as well as icing. This likely kicked off the autopilot and the real pilot was unprepared to fly with either glass or steam gauge instruments in those conditions - and/or the autopilot kicked off because he failed to de-ice and got some asymmetry of flight surfaces - at night, in IMC and with really bouncy turbulence.... The conditions apparently exceeded his skills.
Not uncommon for an auto pilot system to trip off when limits are exceeded. Looks like the pilot trip off too shortly after and lost control. Flying over the mountains on that route can be very turbulent and full of icing conditions. Get out the big iron equipment than the single engine plane.
Instrument failure or whatever, we are all just speculating here - The one thing I totally agree with Juan on is that this mission under these weather conditions should not have been flown at all or at least not under a single pilot operation. Fighting to keep the aircraft level along with fighting the problem with whatever happened clearly overloaded the pilot. It will be interesting to see what the NTSB determines in the end.
@@ronhunt2477 Actually we know there was both icing and moderate turbulence from his ATC clearances. So autopilot tripping off is not an unreasonable scenario as to why he was then thrust into hand flying and simply lost it. And watch this accounting of recent PC12 crashes, where both break up by yanking back too hard, and loosing control while hand flying in IMC are the cause:
ruclips.net/video/Zc2Gd2TTXSQ/видео.html (Why Pilatus PC 12s Crash)
Several of the comments on the above video appear to be from PC12 pilots who both comment the autopilot disengages at the drop of a hat, and it has nasty behavior on approaching stall - snapping over to 70-90 deg bank and going nose low. But also several recent accidents seem to be a copy of this one, loosing situational awareness in hard IMC and diving or stalling and then yanking too hard in attempt to recover, and breaking up the airframe. A consistent pattern of evidence is not so much speculation.... Dual pilots are not going to help much if neither are practicing stall/spin recovery in IMC enough for a rather twitchy stall behavior of this beast.
A thorough and professional investigation with thorough implementation of the findings is the best and most enduring memorial to those lost. Heart breaking to listen!
Thank you Juan. I want to say for the family of the pilot: the accident is picked apart to prevent one like it in the future. But it was an accident. The other pilots on here are all thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I." RIP to the pilot and crew and passengers on this plane.
It wasn't an accident, it was a series of relatively small bad decisions.
Well said. And yes, it was an accident. The NTSB final report will most probably attribute this to reasons so may other aircraft have been lost over the decades.
@@TyphoonVstrom Yes, it’s like they said in the movie Hot Fuzz about using the term “traffic collision” instead of “accident”:
“Why can’t we say ‘accident’ again?”
“Because ‘accident’ implies there’s nobody to blame.”
ruclips.net/video/puK5CwThaq4/видео.html
That flat spin wop-wop sound brings back memories of Ralph Twombly’s T-6 spinning in after colliding with another in 1994, it seemed to take forever for the plane to slowly spin, each time the exhaust was directed in our direction we would hear the wop, us hoping to see a parachute which never appeared. RIP
Great job Juan. Best wishes to you and your wonderful family.
All I could think about was Galloping Ghost when I heard that last bit of audio. Thanks for reporting Juan!
So sad and terrifying - thanks for the follow-up analysis, Juan. I'm not a pilot but just from a big picture situational aspect, I think it is *crazy* that out of any type of commercial aviation, air medical transport services are allowed to operate with a single pilot... It would be last on my list of outfits allowed to do so...These operations simply do not have the luxury of being "pick and choose" fair weather joy rides - their *baseline* is urgency & inherently stressful situations, and sub-optimal conditions are a matter of when not if... There simply has to be redundacy and someone to cross check operations (even at the basic level of just having another pilot as a second opinion asking "should we really be flying in this ?")
Almost Every EMS Operation can absolutely "Pick and Choose" which flights they can accept or decline due to weather. It is in the nature of EMS operations. Ask me how I know.
Thank You Juan. I pray that bringing these accidents to light our profession and operators can raise the bar on safely operAting aircraft in all flight regimes. Take care Buddy.
Oh my God.
My heart goes in the direction of the families affected.
Thanks for the (as always) informative video.
And I see you've transitioned from the "OK, fun camp-out!" to the "this is rather annoying, when did you say the electricity is coming back?" phase of your snow-in. :)
Demonetized during a total power outage, but you came through for the community. Thanks for your continued efforts to bring attention to needless crashes.
Juan no power, tons of snow around your house and you produce and post another video. Thanks for your dedication.
Thanks for always keeping us informed sir👍.
💯 Juan! First do no harm. Medevac flights shouldn't depart under dangerous conditions to include night, IFR, mountains, bad weather, single pilot, turbine aircraft. I have PC12's flying over my house all night in similar conditions and the operator switched from 2 pilots to single pilot. A 35 minute flight costs over $10,000 minimum sometimes triple that. One more pilot spread across half a dozen missions per 24 hours barely impacts the cost.
Reminds me of the audio of the Yorba Linda crash a few years ago. Thanks, Juan. You are the best.
Thank you for still making much needed and urgent content when you have such a long power outage!
Boy, the sound from that audio was sickening to hear. Yes the FAA need to pull finger and fix this... in the meantime, the person who signs off on paying for the service needs to know the grave risk they are taking on behalf of those on board (and occasionally, those on the ground.)
IDK whether that's an insurer, an MD, or a hospital administrator. There need to be clear parameters telling them and the patient and family when a flight will be undertaken and when it won't be. We can't afford to lose pilots and health providers when there are such severe skilled labour shortages (and they will continue for many years.) The cost of destroying such an expensive aircraft should also be noted. Insurance policy holders bear that cost.
It's just recklessly inhumane to allow such flights to go ahead in diabolical conditions, and (a separate issue) with only one pilot, and (another separate issue) without proper FDR and CVR capabilities.
Thanks for the update. I heard the airplane too. The engine sound distressed. It startled me enough, I stood up and got ready to walk to another part of my house, for safety.
Wow Juan, that long without power?? What the heck...Perfect video. Totally agree with dual pilots on these missions. So profoundly heartbreaking to hear the sounds of this video, but you're right the sounds are exactly like Galloping Ghost, I was actually there. Hang in there (I was recently without power for 24 hrs in Texas and it sucked). RIP.
Juan, we broke folk who can't do patreon appreciate all you do.
Glad there was at least audio of this tragedy. Thanks for your professionalism and expertise.
The sound of the prop breaking the sound barrier flashed me back to the Reno air races as you mentioned. I was in the bleachers when Galloping Ghost left the course, pitched up steeply over our heads before rolling left and pitching down steeply before crashing into the asphalt 50 yds in front of us. Unmistakable sound.
My heart goes out to the family and friends of all those onboard this flight.
Very sad for all involved. Thank you another informative video Juan. Fly Safe.
The only place where we can get such a detailed explanation. You should contact and share this info with the various Reno news outlets. Thanks!
They wouldn't understand....
@@blancolirio They’d probably call it an Airbus anyway. You and ARFF world are quicker to report on most matters. I learned about Yeti from this channel before anywhere else.
Juan I appreciate what you do to bring this outcome on this horrible crash
Thank you Juan for posting content like this which raises our awareness and increases our understanding of aircraft accidents.
If I'm not mistaken it also sounded like there where very windy conditions in the area also some stronger gusts of winds at times.
That does not require a replay. Once is more than enough. Thank you for the posting.
Great job analyzing it once again blancolirio love your videos! From one fellow aviator to another.
Thanks for providing this information when you are under challenging conditions sure hope the power is restored soon.
Hope they get your power fixed soon. Amazing video. I used to be a ground handler before I became a firefighter (ARFF certified) and even though the plane we worked was relatively small we had 2 pilots and it does seem inappropriate that flights like this are still single pilot operations and that there isn’t a requirement for some type of data recorder at least.
Good afternoon Captain 👨✈️. We hope you get your electricity on soon. This was a tragic incident; the audio was informative but sad. Much respect to you sir, from you neighbor in the Valley; Merced…. See ya here!
I was a FAA inspector and tried for years to get Guardian revoked. Our legal department and HQ did not want to hear it. How many has Guardian lost now?
Wow, that's grim. Especially hearing it spin. Turbines don't sputter. But people hear what they think they should hear. There's no reason every aircraft shouldn't have a data recorded now. I know the certified electronics industry could find a way to make it prohibitively expensive, but really all you need is a tough dashcam. My current project has a recorder with less than $50 in parts which survives arriving in the nose of an M795 at speeds you can probably look up on the Internet. I bet Garmin could come up with a recorded for a couple of thousand, only about 10 times a reasonable price for what it is.
Truth. And for $19 and using parts bought 25 years ago at radio shack you can have 100% - ALL - voice and data transmission to the ground or satellite. They used the excuse of bandwidth for a long time but since it's about two million - I'm sorry,about twenty million - times greater now, they have to invent new excuses.
As that goes, since hard drives are not 20 Meg now, but rather millions of times denser, the "loops" should be a million hours - not self-erasing after X minutes. That's assuming they persist in the denial of 100% real time ground recognition.
Totally agree there must be a lower level/grade of recorder available to the lower end of aviators even if it's voice only. I bet even a modified mobile phone would suffice. They found the phone from a passenger of the Nepal ATR 72 crash showing the crash from inside the cabin and managed to recover the video from it. Surely it can't be that difficult to improve on that. Just video and audio from the cockpit would solve so many accidents. I'm pretty much retired but I would love to work on a project like this. It has to be worth looking at.
Turbines do splutter - it's called surging or compressor stall. It's a very distinctive sound
I have lost a relative, back in 2009, in a remarkably similar incident. An Italian Air Ambulance service (I-FEEV) crashed due to pilot spatial disorientation soon after taking off from LIRA (Ciampino). In the final ANSV (the Italian equivalent of NTSB -aviation) report is noted that Autopilot was not in use and the Captain was unable to keep the attitude whilst in low visibility, even though the FO (my relative) alerted him by calling "bank angle" well before the situation became unrecoverable. I am somewhat upset that this is still happening nearly 25 years later.
The Australian Royal Flying Doctor Service has 97 aircraft in its fleet, of which 34 are the Pilatus PC12. Currently these are configured for single pilot operations in all flying conditions including night time operations. The decision to move to dual pilots is under review, specially for night time operations. The RFDS was formed in 1928 and has performed over 330,000 missions. In those 95 years there have only been two crashes. Its second only to Qantas which has never lost an aircraft in 103 years of service.
I think from memory one of those, was a KingAir 200 flying from ADL-MTG, and during the approach into Mount Gambia at night missed judged the profiled went in short of the runway.
That is incorrect Steve… Qantas had a total of 14 fatal accidents between 1927 and 1951, including two Short S.23 Empire flying boats shot down by the Japanese in 1942. The last hull loss was an L-1049 Super Constellation that crashed during a rejected takeoff in Mauritius, 1960, with no fatalities. Qantas has so far never lost a jet aircraft, but they have lost aircraft, contrary to popular belief.
2 too many
Qantas Airlines has lost aircraft. They have yet to suffer a fatality in the incidents that have befallen them.
Impressive record. True, RFDS does rarely, if ever, have to deal with snow and icing conditions (I did 40 years of THAT kind of crap, flying in Iceland from 1975 to 2915), but RFDS does have to deal with the opposite end of our climate, tropical storms! I spent over 2 years flying in Africa in the 1990's and have some (but relatively limited) experience with that, and it is just as dangerous! Again, impressive record, if true!
The first 15-20 years of my career was flying unpressurized light piston twins (BN2A, PA23, PA31, C402, C440 etc.) single-pilot hard IFR, frequently high-pressure ambulance flights. At the time I was full of stupid "spit and vinegar", and it was only in the latter half of my career, flying in a "proper" airline environment that I realized how precarious that kind of existence really is. Vanity tells me I survived without any serious incidents because I was a bloody good pilot, but old-age-reality-check tells me that bloody good luck played a large role!!
Thanks for all you do, so others may learn and hopefully avoid fatal mistakes.
Thankyou Juan, you hit the nail on the head, I have substantial experience single pilot IFR which involves high pressure,
I agree that this type of operation requires 2 pilots, a terrible terrible crash that should not have happened. I will add that to much reliance on automation is killing our juniors.
Great work Juan under difficult weather conditions. Good luck with the weather.
I got disoriented on an advanced roller coaster ride.
There was no way out of it while the world was confusedly spinning.
Even after the ride ended it required about 5 minutes to feel "stable" on my feet.
Hang in there, Juan. …one hell of a snow year! I can’t wait to hear your assessment of the water levels in the dams…
Unbelievable sound Juan thanks for sharing. The question that really needs to be ask Was the patients life in danger if they would have waited until first light to take off in much better weather. Was the weather going to be worse the next day? Who ultimately made the decision that this fight had to go when it did? Was the loss of 5 lives worth the risk of saving one? Not to sound insensitive but in this day and age of we gotta blame someone for EVERYTHING the family and the general public needs these questions answered. Thoughts and Prayers for all the family members of those who died in this Crash.
Ultimately a go no go is up to the pilot.
Iam not understanding how this and a number of others happen if the plane has a working autopilot 😳🤔 surely a plane like this was so equipped. Anyone with insight or opinion? I won’t push weather but have flow in imc behind capable autopilots for years, so what’s going on here?
It should be the air operation that says if a flight leaves the ground. It has to be a tough call if someone's life is in balance. Does one chance the fate of gravity or call off the transfer? I hope everyone involved would make the same call if to do over again.
Worst nightmare. Knowing you're going to die.
Generally a fixed wing medical transport is inter facility. Hospital to hospital. While they will be undertaken because a patient requires some level of advanced or specialized care, the patient has to be reasonably stable for transport. A few hours or even a few days would be unlikely to make a difference in outcome. This differs from helicopter medivac transport, which is often picking up a severe trauma patient from near the incident scene and taking them to a trauma center. Hoping to benefit from the “golden hour”. While any patient can take a bad turn during transport, for most long haul or fixed wing transfers the medical assessment is made that they are stable enough for the trip before they even start seeking to schedule it. The medical team picking the patient up will also confirm this evaluation. Look at the aircraft. Not a lot of room to do CPR in it.
Mike-Good points. Remember SLC is only 500 miles from Reno. In bad weather, medical companies opt for an ambulance..
All of these comments about a single pilot operation and the bad weather clearly show what eventually happened but, what caused this tragic event to happen in the first place? If the pilot became spatially disoriented, what caused that to happen - was it turbulence or some other issue that was the primary cause of the pilot becoming disoriented? Yes, I agree, it was a tough audio recording to listen to. I'm just thinking about the passengers and the pilot in those last few moments of what must have been sheer terror for all of them. I'm not a pilot but have lots of time in both private and commercial aircraft over the years. My heart goes out to all of the families left behind... Prayers to all.
And Juan, thanks again for an excellent commentary of this event. You do such a great job describing these kinds of accidents and making them understandable for folks, like myself, who are not professionals in the aircraft industry.
Such a haunting sound.
After listening to audio last night, this morning I heard same motor-prop high overhead. On fliterdr two beech200s were heading north ~20000 but loo..a PC12 went over aswell from Reno to destination on coast. It was eerie. All i could think of was that audio on the Guardian flt crash.
Make me think of all of the times I hear aircraft above an overcast or at night with the usual doppler effect as the pass, That audio sounds like someone circling back, until it changes to the sound of a Pitts doing aerobatics, and then you realize it isn't normal. It is fortunate that the person found and gave this to the officials as it provides the clear evidence of what occurred. RIP to all who were lost. A real tragedy.
Must be noted that thousands of MEDEVAC hours are flown every year, mostly in single-engine, single-pilot operated aircraft safely and effectively. Many of these hours are flown in "blizzard conditions" from Nov-March, takeoff to landing with no issues whatsoever. The PC-12 is an extremely safe all weather platform well suited for this mission, and is certified for single pilot operations. However, many MEDEVAC pilots would never go back to fly the PC-12/45 (legacy) once they've logged single pilot hours in the 47E w/the Primus Apex avionics and synthetic vision.
There is a substantial increase in single pilot SA and hard IMC confidence in the PC-12NG vs. the legacy variant. No question...
Agree with your conclusion that they need to do things better. Way too many accidents in this segment of aviation. That is a tough one to listen to. Thanks as always. Good luck with your power.
Sorry for this tragic accident. Grateful to our host for sharing this. Hope u get power back Juan
Also, does anyone know a good RUclips resource that explains flat spins?
That was chilling audio. Thanks for what you do, Juan. Hope you get your power back soon.
My God, this is absolutely the most haunting thing I’ve heard since seeing Galloping Ghost at Reno. R.I.P.
Great commentary as always
I was a commercial/instrument pilot years ago, and spatial disorientation is so real and scary. Sickening to hear this crash. I agree that two pilots are a must. Not optional.
Gosh, that's chilling audio....
As more of the public learns of these air ambulance accidents, let’s hope patients or their families consider the need for air transport in the first place.
Juan - I would be interested in knowing how you are dealing with the extended power outage. I think it would be a good learning experience.
When I visit my brother's place back in the woods of Nevada County near The North Columbia School house on Tyler Foote which is a few miles from Mother Truckers it is completely normal for the power to be out for a few days. Can be summer or winter. Doesn't have to be weather related but more likely if there is weather like wind. Back in the woods is the last place repaired. Everybody has wood burning stoves for heat. I've been there and a-lot of snow comes down and then I can't leave for a few days since I don't have a 4 wheel drive. I have to wait for locals to drive on the road enough so I won't get stuck. I'm risk averse so want to be confident I won't get stuck. Wood burning stove is good for cooking and melting snow so you can drink all the tea and coffee and chocolate you want and take all the hot showers you want. Everybody has multiple propane and butane stoves so everybody can still cook normally if they don't want to use their wood burning stove/s. alumni.soe.ucsc.edu/~fkilner/KFJC/IMG_20170103_151115_shrunk.jpg
Spot-on, Juan. This didn't need to happen.
RIP to all on board. And hang in there, Juan! I’m sure the family is grateful you’re home safe and sound.
Chilling audio, in real time how quickly it all goes wrong.
Thank you for the thorough and professional analysis. My heart goes out to the patient and their family member and of course the crew. It baffles me that a fixed wing flight like this would be billed $40-50k and yet they won’t justify the salary of a first officer. I know it’s about profit and if the government doesn’t step in they will continue to get away with it.
Agree with your comment about two pilots, it should be the same across all EMS flights including helicopters.
I'm still amazed that some people are proposing that airlines go single pilot when the basis of safe flying is about redundancy.