PILOT ERROR almost ends in a PLANE CRASH. TEARDOWN of an AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT that should have happened
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- I'm lucky to be able to tell this story first hand as opposed to you reading it in an accident report.
Operating from and too short grass strips is always something that should have your upmost respect. Minor mistakes or pilot errors that maybe inconsequential on longer more forgiving runways can have massive repercussions and can easily end up in an aircraft accident which could prove fatal.
In this video I take a deep dive into a mistake I made at a short runway in the UK's backcountry with trees at the end where I accepted a tailwind that pushed the safety margins to the very edge.
Using the Swiss Cheese analogy I was just one slice short of an accident.
Please watch and learn that no matter how many hours you have or what plane you fly, if you push things too far, you're likely to pay for it, maybe with your life.
00:00 Intro
01:20 Short field flying
02:16 My mistake
03:21 The complete story
03:41 North Weald to Bembridge
04:27 Whitwell strip details
05:05 Bembridge to Whitwell
06:59 Landing at Whitwell
07:18 Village street party
07:44 Vince and Dave departure
08:29 My botched departure in detail
11:41 Aircraft performance
13:57 Wrong chart details
14:42 Checklists
15:47 Conclusion and Swiss Cheese
17:55 Farm and grass strip appreciation
18:35 Outro
My name is Terry Kent and I am a General Aviation PPL private pilot operating out of North Weald EGSX about 12 miles to the north east of London in the UK. Short Field is my channel focused on the lighter side of General Aviation including flight and airfield reviews, equipment unboxing and review plus all things private pilot related. I use various cameras to record my videos including GoPro and Insta 360 and stills and edit them in Adobe Premiere Pro, I am an animator as well and often use animations to describe situations more clearly I use Blender and Adobe After Effects for these. I always attempt to post my videos in the highest possible quality, normally 4k.
I fly a 2011 Pipersport two seat single engine aircraft that is also known as the PS28 or SportCruiser in the USA (America) it is know under the FAA as an LSA or Light Sport Aircraft and can be flown on a very basic license. In the UK it is a Part 21 airplane which requires a full licence but it's generally cheap to run, affordable maintenance and great value for money. It cruises at 100 to 105 knots and has superb short take off and landing or STOL capabilities. I visit farm strips, back country and short airfields, some of them dangerous and I try not to crash :-), as well as international airports and try to learn something new every time I fly.
#backcountryflying #generalaviation #pilotlife
I fly VFR and IFR as well as visual and instrument approaches.
My videos may give helpful information to pilots but please remember these are just for entertainment, I am not an instructor nor should anything shown in my videos be used for real world aviation, also the airfields I visit may have totally changed or even closed since the making of the video so always consult the latest information for your country.
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Terry, firstly thank you for (as always) not being afraid to share your mistakes. Videos like this are truly life savers - even if just one person remembers this video as they’re about to set off from a short strip and realises they didn’t set the flaps - it could very well be a life saved. We have all made what in hindsight were silly mistakes when flying, but recognising these mistakes means we can fix them and learn from them. Thanks again for the refreshing honesty!
Thank you Noel, it's hard to get over in a video just how vulnerable you feel just a couple of knots above the stall speed trying to nurse it over an obstacle knowing you daren't pull back on the stick. I am always honoured to get a view and comment from you buddy, thanks again.
Reminds me of a takeoff I did once at Grand Canyon national park. The combination of hot weather, density altitude and an old underpowered aircraft had me skimming the trees. I didn't dare turn for quite a while.
Yess, Thank you very much for sharing this.
how can one forget Noel - the eternal pessimist who blames every damn thing - looks like you woke up on the wrong side today or someone hijacked your handle
Regarding doing checklists solo, you might consider a technique used to reduce accidents in Japanese trains where conductors would think the doors were closed and free but in reality had something or someone stuck in them.
The technique is called "Point and call". To use it, read the checklist item to check what you need to do next, flaps for example, then physically point at the indicator and call out the setting verbally. When you physically point, you orient yourself and your awareness to the thing, and when you verbalize it you have the additional check of hearing yourself which means an additional cuance to recognise "Hey the setting I called out matches the current setting but not what it should be?" or "Hey the setting I called out is what it should be but that doesn't match what I'm physically seeing!" so in both cases you become aware that something is amiss.
To add to this, verbalize an action prior to the setting. Instead of carb heat off, carb heat in and off. Mixture in and rich. Flaps down and set. Etc
@@MTD369 I like! It makes the action to get the result part of the check on the result!
We did this in the Navy operating nuclear reactors. Staring at gauges for hours on end you can get blind to them.
A pilot friend of mine told me: "See with your fingers". I dunno, it stuck with me.
When I first saw them doing the point with the white gloves I sort of chuckled…really?
Then I put my cynicism away and thought about it.
BRILLIANT!
I’m not a real pilot but enjoy simming since FS95…yes, stick like visuals lol.
I will use this in my real life when changing shaper knives and other industrial settings.
There was a crash recently of a Piper Cub where the guy took off with the joystick lock bar still in place. The guy was a highly experienced ex Air force fighter pilot, apparently one of the best, like a the real life version of Maverick. A simple mistake is as deadly as any weapon. "Check controls free and moving", the most basic of checks, and he missed it - just once, when it counted.
I saw a video on 'Air crash' where a commercial airliner crashed because the control locks were still on. I know it sounds unbelievable but neither pilot had tried the controls before take off - it stalled and everyone was killed.
I remember that one. It is almost unfathomable that he did that, but it really did happen that way.
Snodgrass.... One of the best F14 pilots ever. He flew the scenes in top gun. Navy pilot
A human trait…..complacency. 😮
A good tip is when lined up ready to commence the take off do another final check on the essentials items on your type which could be, say, Fuel (selected ON), Flaps set - also don't just rely on the flap indicator (if fitted) - have a look outside at the trailing edge of each wing to see that flaps are set and symmetric.
Great video thanks.
A cautionary tale and good learning for us all, thanks. The following has happened to me in a PA28. Pre-takeoff checks completed successfully including flaps correctly set and checked visually. “Ready for departure and lining up”. Throttle to idle, handbrake off. About to move, I then retract the flaps! Why? Muscle memory from cars, the flap lever on a PA28 is very like a car handbrake. Now I always look at the flaps whilst lining up.
Thank you. Wow, PA28's and the handbrake flap lever, I think many of us have made that mistake, it's a horrible sinking feeling when you do it especially once in the air. Humans are funny things we think we're so infallible and we never learn that we're far from it.
I think the flap lever in the Piper series is a poor human factors design, there being no indication as to its position by lights or feedback to the pilot. Not using the printed checklist and being distracted by a request by a tower controller caused me to do a takeoff and climb out in a Piper Arrow at night with the flaps fully extended. The flaps locked down at takeoff power, would not move, and I only realized they were down after takeoff when my right arm brushed against the flap lever when adjusting the throttle. I did nothing since I had a positive rate and everything was stable. Climbed to above pattern altitude at around 60 knots then very slowly brought the power back to idle and then retracted the flaps, one notch at a time. I was a test pilot for about 90 seconds, as there is no guidance in the POH for this. Recent Cessna 152 fatal stall spin crash in the US student pilot retracted full flaps after takeoff when realizing his error. Flap lever in a Cessna activates an electric motor, full up can be selected easily with a single motion, a possible design problem. I agree, the hand moves faster than the brain, it's been proven. Slow the pattern down, look at what your hand is doing, be deliberate and think about any action first before doing it, and use the printed checklist. Excellent presentation, a good learning opportunity.
@@ShortField See recent Cessna 152 fatal stall spin crash in US of student pilot who retracted full flaps after takeoff.
@@bernieschiff5919 too many of these Bernie. You have a very famous surname in the aviation community are you related to Barry?
@@bernieschiff5919 Fantastic comment thank you Bernie
‘We all make mistakes, which is why cars have bumpers and pencils have rubbers.’
Thanks for sharing this video and hopefully by doing so, it will prevent another pilot from making the same error.
Much respect and safe flying.
Thank you so much for the view and really appreciate your kind comments Mr. Pig :-)
Fair play for posting. Goes to show the importance of being absolutely critical during reading over the checklist. Luckily you weren’t too heavy or an extra pax. Safe flying dude !
Videos like this are superb Terry. I've just solo'd as part of my PPL so it's extremely useful to see mistakes like this, honest and unbiased explanations and your commentary. Really impressed, thanks.
Thank you so much Andrew and good luck with the training.
Absolutely superb video. I have over 1400 hours on mostly Cessnas (172/182) and I found this hugely helpful and useful. Well done! Very clear, very honest, very alarming. A great teaching aid. Thank you.
So appreciated especially from a seasoned pilot, thank you Stephen.
Great video.
One minor point - If you want to be invited back to his strip, don’t blast his open hangar with your prop blast. Looks like you had plenty of room to turn around the other direction - never point your tail at other people’s stuff, *especially* an open hangar.
Doubt he will be invited back after ragging on the guys strip from his error.
Went into Whitwell in an Ikarus C42 with 2 POB. Although there was a tailwind on 17 we followed the briefing (one way in one way out) and landed OK. We reckoned that the tailwind would be compensated by the rising ground. Without the rising ground I would hardly ever consider landing with a tailwind in an Ikarus C42 on a short field, even with 2 POB, because it basically seems to float on forever.
On departure we discussed options with the owner as the wind now favoured a 17 departure and those trees looked very close for a tailwind departure on 35. With his agreement we decided on a 17 departure even though we would encroach on the noise abatement area (the Ikarus C42 is very quiet even on departure). We made sure we taxiied right to the first few feet of 17 and were airborne maybe half way down.
Even after hundreds of landings on short fields I struggle to work out the balance between tailwind/headwind and rising/falling ground. But if I have any choice then I will always avoid a tailwind. With a headwind my confidence and judgement is pretty good. With a tailwind I feel very uncertain and therefore hardly ever do it. It works for me in a C42.
Does anyone else have a tailwind strategy for a C42?
Brilliant story and looks like you had the same dilemma as me, I suppose the only thing regarding performance that I can take from this is that it did get out even with my cock-up and a 10 knot tailwind even though it was balanced on a knife-edge and it wouldn't have taken much more back pressure on the stick to enter a stall. Thank you for the great story, watch and comment Roger.
New pilot here and very much appreciate your sharing this story.
Love it that you watched and commented. Thank you so much. Good luck with your new found freedom.
Nice performance calculations. Try doing that prior to every takeoff.
That can save your life and will increase your situational awareness.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a small single engine or a 747.
Do your performance and run your checklist.
Your not afraid of the truth. That takes a big man to admit the error. Utmost respect.
Thanks Joey, it was difficult to blame anything else :-( Thank you for the lovely comment.
"He only just clears the trees. I'm in the same aircraft type, but a bit heavier than him and the tailwind is now blowing stronger"... you summarized it pretty well
Famous last words.
Terry, I commend your honesty here and your detailed appraisal is of huge benefit to the entire aviation community for reasons already stated by many others. Regardless of subject matter, your content and video production is always so engaging right from start to finish. Something I can only dream of ever comparing to. I'm glad you are taking the time to put these together. Please continue to do so.
What an unbelievable comment Chris that's made my day thank you so much.
I would whole heartedly agree with what CJ has said. I personally pretty much warmed to your voice and personality after the 1st video watched. Looking forward to more content Terry!
Nice! Finally I found someone, who also looks at the POH performance figures and compares calculated vs. actual takeoff performance :)
We did tons of such calculations during the commercial pilot training ("Performance" subject), and I truly hated it. But it gave me the discipline to anchor my decisions to the numbers and understand, how much margin I have. The less I have, the slower I work on the checklist, sometimes deliberately slowing down a bit to get the axiety out, and get the professionalism in :) We also learnt during Human Performance and Limitations, that the human error rate is 1% (1 out of 100) for regular repetitive actions, and 0.1% with specialized and regularly practiced actions. It's never zero, we have got to deal with it in single pilot operations.
About a week ago, I actually did 3 short field touch-and-goes on grass strips that I have never been to before. I had to measure distances on the satellite photos, I had to look at pictures taken nearby for obstacles, and develop a model, merging the POH landing performance calculations and the takeoff performance calculations into a single calculation model, as neither my pilot friends coming with me, nor the aircraft owner was convinced I could do it. But we could and I had plenty of margins left.
I am planning to make a video about that, both the preparations and calculations, as well as the actual touch and go's and the lessons learnt from that exercise.
Lack of data is what makes Farm and short strips fun but also more deadly. I like the process of trying to establish details for strips that have no info, usually all you get is a brief from the owner and then he doesn't give you any data just "Yeah that should get in here" :-) I rarely take PAX if I'm visiting marginal strips. Human Factors are hard to quantify add stress , complacency, out of practice and a myriad of other things to the mix and who knows what you will get right or wrong. Unfortunately lessons like the one I just learnt are hard but sometimes necessary to remind you of the consequences. I'll look out for your vid Sir. Thank you.
Wow. Can't thank you enough for this. I love your honesty and candor. This alone deserves a subscription and that like button!
Marcos such kind words and your sub means such a lot, hope I can keep it. Thank you so much
Late to the party but good on you for showing us, and yep my immediate thought was "is there a reason not to use flaps on a shortfield take off?"
17:38 Great example of confirmation bias: the other pilot demonstrated that “it can be done” which must have played a big impact on your decision making even though, rationally, the fact that he made it was pretty irrelevant to you making it in your aircraft. But that is how our brains are wired! A great lesson for us all, great video!
Thank you Edward, he did it right though :-)
I’ve followed a few of these private pilots and I’m always shocked how may of them are overcome with impatience? I love what they do and their lifestyle but hey if the conditions are not right just spend the night.
True, but this was nothing to do with the conditions at the time. It was get-there-itis and failure to set flaps to TO. Can't see how that relates to the conditions and staying overnight instead of flying.
As a new student pilot, I appreciate your honesty and accountability. You will NEVER do that again, as a result! Best of luck..
Thanks Steve.
Not sure how the POH handles it for the Sport Cruiser, but for my Cessna 150M, the takeoff distances listed are all for paved runways, and it advises to add 15% of the distance when flying off of grass runways.
I landed at a long grass strip once (1244 meters) to the south and taxied to the other end for takeoff as the wind had shifted, and a Skyhawk had been using the north runway for pattern work. As I taxied along the side of the runway, the Skyhawk departed. I made my call and taxied into position, pushed the throttle, held the nose off and began climbing, sluggishly. I chalked this up to high density altitude, as it was a hot summer day. It wasn't until the tops of the trees along the ridge 2km north were approaching fast that I started wondering if I was going to be in trouble. There was a large river to the right, so I had the option of turning northeast and climbing out over the water. I started scanning my engine instruments. RPMs were a little low but I didn't notice, oil temp and pressure were good...what in the?!? Then I saw it. I'd left the carb heat turned on during my landing and did not push it back in once on the ground. I did so and cleared the trees without issue. In that situation, thankfully I had plenty of time to diagnose, but had I made that mistake on a shorter field with closer obstacles, I might have suffered the same fate you almost did. Thank you for sharing.
That sounds well dodgy. I'm still not over this and it has really bothered me to the point it has affected my confidence. I'm going to post a follow up vid where I loose my nerve on a different strip all because of this. We (hopefully) live and learn. Thank you Sir.
@@ShortField I learned yet another one last week. A Cessna 150M, loaded with my fiancee, two duffelbags with our clothes etc for 3 days/nights, and enough fuel to have an hour reserve at our destination but still way under max gross, will not climb when the mags are not set to "Both". Thankfully I was able to get just enough altitude to return to the field, diagnose the issue, click the mag once to the right, verify all was still well with a runup, and continue our trip. I now have 2 additional checks of the mags being set to both added to my before-takeoff checklist so I don't make this mistake again.
@@SixStringflyboy I'm glad it's not just me :-) Good job.
Thank you for sharing this! As a student pilot the reality of aviation safety is very apparent to me and I thank you being humble enough to share these lessons with us. Decision Making is what a pilot has to do 100% of the time and your lesson has saved lives. Thank you.
A good memory aid for things like this would be a physical checklist device like the one Missionary Bush Pilot uses - I believe he also sells them, the idea is each checklist item is a switch on the box, which you flip up for T/O and down for landing - gives you an immediate visual and tactile reference to where you are in your checks to avoid missing steps due to distraction
Thanks Alister I like Ryan's checkbox but it wouldn't be practical in our small cockpit. Great advice though and thanks for the watch Sir.
I really want to thank you for this video. I look at these videos as a form of pilot therapy. While educational, I know for most of us, it helps put us at ease getting the reassurance that everyone makes mistakes. I had a flight today that was horrible. Nothing unsafe, but I was making stupid mistakes and tripping over myself the whole time. It left me and my confidence rattled and often times it’s easy to feel alone in those moments. This video not only teaches me a lesson about short field operations and decision making but it also helps bury my self destructive thoughts about my mistakes. We’re all human but in the moment it’s very easy to forget that it happens to everyone. Thank you for being so thorough and honest!
Thank you Braylen, these lessons are so tough and sometimes calling yourself out for making errors is the best thing to do, although it's hard to accept.
This video only teaches you how not to analyse a take-off. The whole evaluation of the required take-off distance was seriously flawed. This is what bothers me about this video - that people will learn from it.
I am first time watcher of your video, this is very well explanatory video of your experience. Really good.
Well thank you so much Shakir really appreciate your view and kind comment Sir.
I will constantly be checking my flaps before takeoff now!!! 😳 So easily done! 😬 Thanks very much for bravely sharing 👍🏼
Flaps, another innuendo you need to include in your next video :-) This wasn't the video I was intending on posting but having all the camera angles would have made the AAIB's task pretty simple if I had shredded in the trees. Thank you for the watch and kind comment.
@@ShortField 😂😂😂
An excellent report, Terry. Great video production which holds the attention and makes your story an entertaining as well as informative presentation. I taught CRM to RAF Tornado Ab-Initio crews for 15 years and if I'd had your video available it would have saved me 20 minutes of talking on every course. A good analysis of the errors you made, how you could've avoided or mitigated them and what you - and we - learned as a result. Well done and thank you for sharing the experience with us.
Mike, thank you for your wonderful comment and the kind words, so appreciated.
Been involved in GA for a couple of decades, and EVERY pilot I've spoken to has had at least one close call.
We need it sometimes, you know that saying about walking away from the aircraft, it's so true. Thank you for the watch and great comment.
Reminds me of a saying I heard doing the classroom section of my motorcycle exam “ there are two types of riders, those who have crashed and those who will. Don’t ever think that your the exception and get complacent “
Thanks for sharing. We’ve all done something stupid like that… and we’re the lucky ones who live to learn from our mistakes!
There but for the grace of (insert your God, idol or leader here) :-)
The last time I overshot a landing in my very short and slow landing RANS S-7S, was out in the Idaho desert. The emergency strip had a windsock, which I of course eyeballed before setting up my landing. It gradually dawned on me I was 1/3 of the way down the strip and not quite done landing yet! Turns out the wind sock pole had broken and fallen over, and as luck would have it it indicated an opposite direction than the true. In my case NO windsock would have been better, that I could deal with, I got lulled by bad info.
A cautionary tail Sir. Love it that you watched and penned a fine comment. Thank you so much.
Bet you will never miss Flaps again. Thanks for your open honest assesment. Happy landings matey.
Cheers Phil, nope that one ain't gonna get me again.
Thanks for this - a very level headed dissection of what happened, with lessons for all of us.
Thank you Glen really appreciate your kind watch and comment.
This video should be required viewing for all pilots. Thanks for sharing and having the courage and sense of duty to do so. I'd wager you won't make that mistake a second time.
Love this comment thank you so much.
Thanks for sharing this. mistakes happen and is educational for everyone here
Thank you for the watch and comment FlightX101
Great video and honest. If available a rolling "U" turn start can save you some significant meters over break holding run-up to TO as proven in a test with minimum TO distance in a C152 documentary. Give her a try sometime and compare when at a safe airport with buffer. P/s/ You are living the dream, don't stop flying because it is hard to get back into it later.
Cheers Fred I do try that sometimes if space allows. Great comment and don't worry as long as I can pass the medical I'm always going to fly. Appreciate the watch Sir.
One of the things we do in the airlines is set the flaps before the aeroplane taxis. This way the aeroplane is in a takeoff configuration before it ever moves. Really good video and brilliant you’re willing to share your mistakes to help others.
I now do that, thank you.
Thank you for sharing. Great video, those drone shots are fabulous and the graphics really educational. Similar happened to me on C-150 on our local strip. I got almost 15 kt tailwind from 3/4 and was keen to get out. 500 m strip with tall trees 100 m behind RWY. My dangerous stupid mistake was carb heat on from previous landing. Those 50 RPM you lose with carb heat on I could feel - every one of them. Same with ground effect - I got airborn and the wind was blowing me towards those trees. I was smart enough to push on the yoke after take off and gain speed before pulling and clearing those trees by no bigger margin than you did. Afterwards, when my heart slowed a bit, did I find out the carb heat lever pulled. Will not happen again and I am sure you will remember your lesson forever. Great job, looking forward to another video.
Thank you Pavol and great comment and story, these flights are the ones you should remember because if you don't you are destined to repeat them. So appreciate your watch and taking the time to comment.
Thank you for posting this mate, happened to me as well. I had just bought a QCU Challenger II and had full fuel, a passenger, and an uphill takeoff on a tiny grass strip in upstate New York. I was fairly confident from having landed there a few times prior and severely overestimated the aircrafts low speed climb performance. I remember 80ft trees passing below me close enough to reach out and grab a switch or two and it took a bit before I fully regained composure. We're both very lucky as just as often, a mistake like these doesn't afford us the opportunity to learn from the mistake. So glad you made it out safe and grateful for you reinforcing how critical it is to take the time you need to keep the flight safe. You've got a subscriber in me mate.
We appreciate the candor Terry. We can all learn from the experience of others, via video, both good and bad. Don't beat yourself up too much for forgetting the flaps. The lightening of the nose gear early and the pitching up to get the mains into low ground effect well before Vso and then levelling in low ground effect is what saved you with or without flaps. Acceleration in low ground effect, on grass or pavement, is a very critical short field technique. Zoom reserve airspeed is much better than Vx or Vy, neither of which are appropriate until near the obstruction. And any great altitude over the obstruction is just trading zoom reserve airspeed for too little altitude to help with stall recovery so why go for near stall airspeed. Even hitting the top of the trees is better than stalling/falling into them and finding a little hole is excellent reaction to the tactical situation becoming fluid. Good job. As for the hill going the other way, down drainage egress is always something to consider even in low and somewhat flat country.
Fantastic comment thank you Jimmy 👍👍👍
Wow, distraction is deadly , glad you are here to tell the story 👍
Me too Jeff, washing machine has taken a bit of a bashing though :-) Really appreciate your watch and kind comment.
A brilliant, stunningly honest video from a human pilot
And everyone should realise this and other mistakes are within their "skills" range.
Many thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks a ton, so appreciate your kind comment!
Excellent video! Hopefully you’ve saved someone’s life through sharing your close call. Glad you’re still with us!!!!❤
Thank you sir.
I believe he might have very well saved mine... I remember this video every time I take off.
Great video and great channel. One of the better aviation channels for sure. I love the detail you go into, it's very informative
Thank you for such a lovely comment Elaine.
Thanks for sharing. This could happen to anyone. Seeing examples of mistakes like this are how others can learn without making them.
Thanks Matt, sorry for the late reply.
I’ve not read all of the 100+ comments, but see they are mostly favourable.
Great vid Terry, and it’s great to see/hear, articulated, mistakes we have all made (and thus far got away with). But seeing it like this, with the analysis, will all add to the double check that goes on in my head in addition to the check list.
Keep ‘em coming but don’t stuff yourself in just to give us a lesson!
Thanks Richard, no one has learnt more from this than I have, luckily it's on YT for life and whenever I start to slack I'll re-watch it and have a word with myself. Think I'll stick to strip guide videos in future much easier on the nerves. Appreciate the lovely comment and watch Sir.
Thanks for another excellent video, Terry. Combination of factors - distraction, time pressures (real or imagined) plus the encouragement of seeing the other aircraft depart successfully. Great lesson for all, and glad you're OK 👍
Can't say it hasn't affected me Andrew but it's good that it has. I couldn't really get over the feeling of climbing on the edge of flight, knowing that pulling back too much would immediately put me in a stall, I could feel the wing drop as I climbed. Thank so much for the kind comment and watch Andy.
When you were getting near the trees in the initial play through I thought "a bit more flap might get you over them better" and then you'd have noticed the lack of flap! I flew from a small strip at Marlborough near Boston, Mass. In a 152 (I think) with an instructor there. Short strip with trees at the end and it was standard procedure once climbing to put more flap on to better clear the trees!
I hate trees at the end of short strips anyhow, but add on a cock-up and things get bad quickly. Fantastic comment Gwyn thank you buddy.
Since any flap reduces the angle of climb on an airplane, why would you think that adding flap would help , rather than be deleterious in getting above an obstacle ahead ?
@@davidwhite8633 because applying it in the instance mentioned has the effect of quickly increasing your height allowing you to hop over obstacles. It is described as early as by Ernest Gann in Fate Is The Hunter when he narrowly missed the Taj Mahal.
Glad to see your ok Terry, that was close! Another excellent video mate. I genuinely think you have the best uk aviation videos on RUclips now. Brilliant content, and excellent production.
Matt that is the most amazing comment and coming from a fellow RUclipsr, I am flattered. I watch alot of YT aviation videos and I draw inspiration from them but I feel due to my lack of vlogging skills (which you do excellently) I tend to have to make voice over videos which limits the appeal of my vids. I am genuinely blown away thank you so much buddy, I'm getting the coffee's when I'm next up 🙂
I mean it mate. When I see a new video pop up, I know it’s going to be a good one. It’s funny because I’ve wanted to try and introduce voice over to my videos but I don’t think my Yorkshire accent really fits with the videos 😂 so I tend to just jabber on in the videos. I talk To myself anyway so it comes natural 🤣. We need to put a date in the diary. Meet half way, you come north and I’ll go south.
@@flyingwithmatt1986 yes soonest.
Excellent deconstruction of the incident. Thank you for putting yourself out there for the betterment of safety. Glad this was only a close call and not much worse
Cheers Matt
Excellent presentation, details well covered. As a student pilot I am thankful for the experiences shared by other pilots that help me be a safer pilot. Thank you for sharing and I am so glad you are still around to be able to share your experiences, good and bad. Safe flying!
Cheers Dave, appreciate that and good luck with the training.
My 2 cents - For all the flight sim pilots out there in particular, its good practice to treat your simulator flights as serious as the real thing - and go through all the real world checks. This is because when SHTF, we go back to our rote training. You never know when you will be behind the controls of a real aircraft, or maybe a mix like myself. Even in the sim, I am thinking of my abort take off marks, engine failure actions, real world checks, etc. Its also good to turn on "random failures" in the sim also, rather than build a false sense of security.
I will ramble on about a true story where the head of the police training in some county always trained his police to pick up the brass from fired shots as they went, to save money and keep the area clean. There was a real shootput, and a couple of the cops were killed - they were picking up their brass in the middle of a gunfight because that is how they trained - its a real thing.
I'm glad you were able to take off and all was well.
Thank you appreciate that.
I clocked the flaps and instantly thought "ooops, not a strip to forget those". Don't take this the wrong way, but I got to this video by watching the one you posted after it, but the link in that one that you mention you'll put in the top corner to this one is actually just a link to that same video that was playing, so I found this one just with a quick look in the activity feed. It's clear you were nervous about posting it up. There's a couple of other things you say that shows me how much this has knocked your confidence (I'm sure you'll talk more about that in the video after this as I came straight this one to watch it first).
Personally, from one pilot to another, I think putting up these videos was the responsible thing to do. Owning up to a mistake is humble and could really help others and I completely respect any pilot that hopes to help other pilots become better and think more.
I'm glad you didn't end up in a bad way from this error and hope you get that confidence back.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Thank you so much Dodge for your very thoughtful and constructive comment sir.
Great video Terry, appreciate your honesty and willingness to share mistakes so we all have a chance to learn.
Thanks Mike.
Brilliant video as usual Terry. I’m glad I spotted the mistake at the very start! I was about to comment and ask if there was a certain reason you didn’t set flaps as I thought you’d not done it for a reason! These kinds of videos are so helpful and a true reminder to us all that no matter how seasoned a pilot one is, there’s always room for error and also rams home the importance of checklists. I’m off to Sandown for the first time in a few weeks but I think I’ll stay away from this place! My PA28 wouldn’t even think about rotating in that short a space!
So true Laurie and great spot on the flaps, just wish I'd been as observant. Thank you for the kind comments this was a tough one to post but seems to have been received well. Thanks again buddy.
Yes, knowing the wind is important, double so for a tail dragger.
Agreed
I fly paramotors, I don't even fly GA fixed wing, but really enjoyed this. Made me think about my own check lists. Glad you made it over!
Wow thanks Mark.
Thank you for a great analysis and nice job keeping that nose down even when you saw the trees approaching.
A human factors related observation. I see your checklist is extremely long. I fly commercially and the checklists on a bigger and more complex aircraft are much shorter than this.
We will often complete items by flow checks and then read checklists. Non killer items are usually just summarised using one point on the checklist (for example: Cockpit setup - complete) Killer items (flaps, trim anti-ice etc.) are listed one by one. Another big difference is that most of the items are complete by the time we start taxiing. On my aircraft we only have 6 checklist items after we start taxiing until we take off.
I have adopted this onto a C182 I often fly. The lineup checklist is just 5 items:
Fuel selector - Both
Cowl flaps - Open
Flaps - __ set
Mixture - Rich
Fuel pump - On
Since we mostly fly skydivers with many short turnarounds per day, the lineup checklist is made as a placard and taped to the instrument panel.
Thank you and from a "proper pilot". I'm sure this has happened to everyone as a solo pilot, you go through your checklist but you physically don't check or complete the checklist item. For example when I used to fly complex aircraft my short final check was 'Red, Greens, Blue" I know on particularly tricky approaches I said this out loud but didn't look down at the actual control positions. We are human and that's the problem :-) Really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Thank you
@@ShortField actually keeping that nose down when everything in your body is saying pull up was actually a right of passage, be it a tough one. It shows you use logic to override panic.
As a current student enrolled in my Flight Instructor Rating, this video is extremely helpful, and reminds us all that small errors can lead to bigger issues. I plan to incorporate video training in my presentations to future students, so the PGI portion isn't as boring and lectury. I just went through the air exercises on soft & short field take off and landings, so this video is very timely. Thanks again for sharing your experience, as it will resonate with me and hopefully my future students
Oh appreciate that thank you so much, don't want to be making any more 'cock-up' vids though :-)
@@ShortField haha all videos help...especially the good ones too. Teaching about Spins for example, and using a video demonstration of it looks like and how to recover from it, may ease the students nerves, especially when they are performing it for the first time :)
glad you are still around and able to share this vid with all of us
"Take off flaps are set and indicated"
Tons of respect for putting yourself on blast with mistakes, we've all made them, we just lie about it, or keep them secret, anybody judging you on this video is either delirious or just about to make a huge mistake that they likely won't acknowledge.
Very well done, your humility will keep you safe in the future, we can all learn to be more humble
Cheers Josh, felt a bozo but I think it was worth posting. Thanks buddy
Thanks so much for sharing, very well reflected, processed and documented 👍 Congrats to your beautiful plane.
It would be interesting to hear from your experience with flaps on muddy fields, since my theory is that at some point early lift at ground effect has to be prioritized in order to be able to get out of the high rolling resistance and being able to accelerate to a speed that later is safe to lift off.
I thought when on a grass strip setting flaps is as standard as turning the ignition on when starting the engine. But then again as you mentioned you get distracted in such a stressful situation, want to follow your friends ASAP and forget this very basic step.
I am mainly a flight simmer with just a few real world take-offs and landings of C152,172 and PA28, but always on asphalt, so I have no clue about real life on grass strips and I just presumed what I wrote above. Hope I wasn't wrong.
Thank you and great comment. Dry short grass is not too bad and in my real world experience has around a 10% affect on resistance compared to hard runways. In this aircraft we wouldn't set flaps on a long runway as there's not much point but here it was imperative to safely get out of there. This was such a bad mistake and I was really lucky to get away with it. I love simming as well and tried the strip in MSFS in a C152 it was almost exactly the same profile. Thank you Terry
Great video, a lot to learn from this. However, adding 15% on the post analysis for a 10kt tailwind is out in my opinion. It would likely be somewhere around 30%. That combined with the shallower angle of climb. It's hard to put an exact figure on it but there are many articles suggesting much higher numbers. A runway that short, an obstacle at the end and a tailwind. I think you escaped the Swiss cheese effect and I'm glad you made it.
Stay safe, thanks for sharing.
I know and I think you are totally correct, however when I did the calcs based on the POH with 30% I should be well in the trees so not sure what's going on there, I know I was on the edge of stalling all the way upto 50ft. Thanks for the great comment and kind words.
@@ShortField "When I did the calcs" makes huge assumptions on many variables you could not have known.
Lesson learned! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Jean-Luc
Having your mate "watching over your shoulder" during your checklist review certainly did not help your concentration.
Did you ever ask him whether he had noticed your faux pas as you gave it full throttle?
This reminds me of my solo flight in a Cesna 152 out of Stowe, Vermont, some 40 years ago.
The plan was for three touch and goes at this small, raised, one runway strip.
Take off, reaching pattern altitude, downwind, base and final all felt great with the exception of coming in "hotter" than I was used to during previous landings. Well, as the increased speed actually helped for my second take off I thought nothing of it.
The last two landings were similar, i.e., faster landing speeds than expected, but I was so overjoyed at making my solo I thought nothing more about it.
It was only when I met my instructor on the tarmac that he informed me that my flaps NEVER moved from the "up" position on each landing and take-off!
I assured him that I carefully made my flap adjustments, that I didn't forget them, he just smiled and told me ever so nonchalantly that the flap servo motors had completely failed during my flight.
He said, "after you nailed your first landing and rotated safely, I just figured it would bother you more KNOWING that your flaps weren't working. This is why we didn't radio you and alert you to flap positioning!"
As I was such a rookie, I had failed to notice the misding distinct change in aircraft attitude that proper flap positioning makes during base and final.
This just goes to show just how new pilot "friendly" the Cesna 152 (and 172) aircraft are.
But good on you mate for "getting right back on that horse" after your mishap.
One thing is certain, however, both you and I will ALWAYS remain fully aware of our aircraft flaps condition for the rest of our flying days!
Good vid. Terry, thanks for posting it. It just goes to show that we will never have enough experience that we can allow our concentration to drop, even for a moment.
Cheers Carl, another pair of underpants ruined 🙂
Great to watch and please keep these videos coming. Perfect lessons for student pilots or those looking to get into flying.
So kind thank you but don't really want to be doing this again :-)
Thank you for posting this. I really like these honest videos because it makes everyone a better pilot, not just you.
Thank you Michael.
I appreciate your willingness to detail mistakes so that other people can learn from them. Thank you
New viewer and appreciate the video. Another suggestion on these short strips is to pick an abort location on the airstrip, a row of trees/windsock or similar, and just commit 100% to abort the flight if not airborne or rotate speed by then. Power off and brake simultaneously, and stop. Important to also not to delay once you hit the abort point since hesitation could also be an issue. It may have helped in this scenario, possibly even with the other errors.
Hi Glenn thanks so much for the watch and comment. That's a great idea and something I try to do but on these short ones you are committed to flight by the time you get halfway which can be as short as 180 meters or about 12 seconds into the run. Farm and short strip flying makes you accept risks that you wouldn't on longer airfields, if you didn't you probably would never attempt them in the first place.
There are two ways to approach this. Small GA aircraft dont calculate a V1 so you will need to calculate how much length is required to RTO and find a point on the strip where that is OR use the 70/50 rule.
If you are not 70% of your rotate speed by 50% of the runway, ABORT!
@@Senseigainz like the 70/50 rule, first time hearing of it but sounds like a good guide.
@@glennwatson its something i heard later on in my career. However, its a rule of thumb that will keep you on the safe side.
I've just passed my PPL skills test (on Monday) and your videos are so well made and so helpful for new pilots like myself, so thank you so much! Do you apply or use the safety factors for your t/o and landing calculations?
That is wonderful news well done Tom....now be careful :-)
Congratulations!! Now the learning commences !
Lots of cheese holes waiting for you in this one. Lucky boy this time. Love this channel and nicely presented 👌
Thanks John, silly mistakes, bad decisions, complacency, they're all there, the AAIB would have had this one signed off in a matter of days. I hope to never post another video like this. Thank you Sir.
Great learning points Terry and thanks for calling yourself out on this one for everyone’s benefit.
We live to fly another day 🙏🏼
Cheers Dollar.
Wrong assumption! Thank you for sharining this valuable lesson. I believe the biggest error was the assumption of influence of the tailwind. I had a similar scare around 15 years ago, which prompted me to crunch some numbers, to find out where I went wrong. For this purpose I assumed a hypothetical aircraft which would accelerate linearly at 3kts/s (1,54m/s/s) to a liftoff speed of 60Kts. Using Galileo's rule of odds, this aircraft would in zero-wind conditions require a ground run of 308 m. With a 9Kts headwind it only needs 223m (-28%). However, with a 9Kts tailwind it will require a 408m ground run - thats 32% more than no-wind, and 83% more than 9Kts headwind. Obviously the numbers are not 100%, as prop aircraft will not accelerate linearly, but it does show that we tend to hugely underestimate the influence of a tailwind on takeoff or landing.
Thanks Gideon. I think you are correct tailwinds are not to be messed with, you've got the longer ground run plus that severely reduced angle of climb to deal with. The math shows it wasn't safe the practical proves it wasn't. Fantastic comment Sir.
Glad everything went well in the end.A steep learning curve if there ever was one.Relief that your report didn't end with hard cheese!
:-) Yes that would have 'GRATED' me :-)
What a decent Channel I have found here. Hi Terry, Jez here, a s7 Kitfox builder from the UK. I am actually flying a friends super cub atm to keep tailwheel proficient until I finish my build. And then hopefully find like minded chaps like yourself that I can meet up with for a jolly round UK farm strips. Keep up with the content you a kindly providing and let me know if there is any way we could get in contact with each other
Thanks Jeremy I’m on most of the UK facebook groups 👍👍👍
A tip for you regarding the BRS pin. I looped my pin into the aircraft key chain, thus I can never start the engine with the BRS pin still engaged.
Great idea thanks Brett.
Great video Terry, and good info on keeping it accurate on the pre-checks.
Thank you Rodney, I suppose this shows that reading a checklist and doing the items correctly are two totally separate things and we need to get them both right, everytime.
Terry
Superb, By showing you’re error, you have probably saved at least one pilots life in future, May be mine, and I thanks you in advance for that.
Thank you Steve, having a YT channel means sharing your mistakes and it may make you look a bit of a numpty but we all know there's not one person in this world who never makes them.
@@ShortField
I’ve done a few daft things during my flying days, I once landed a C177, cardinal, the main gear hadn’t locked fully down, and I scooted along the runway with a shower of sparks behind me, fortunately the nose wheel had locked down. It turned out the fuse had tripped just as the nose wheel locked. But I hadn’t checked ‘fuses in’ as part
of my downwind checks.
@@stevenstyles7602 not done that one yet even with 20 years in complex but it's more through luck than any skill. Had plenty of 2 greens but due to the squat switch position on the Commander I ended up pretty much ignoring it as muck on the switch 🙂
@@ShortField
Interestingly there is only one green light on the cardinals, for all three wheels. It happened 40 years ago, and I still swear to this day I saw a green, but You’re Memory can tricks on you.
Two people died in a plane crash here in Denmark, a couple of years ago, in an accident just similar to this situation, so videos like this are extremely helpful and really important! Thanks for a great video!
Wish it wasn't me posting this but so many positive comments for making a really bad error. I know it has at least helped one pilot to be more careful in future....and that's me. Appreciate the kind comment Gustav
Great video-great lesson. Always, no matter how experienced or familiar, follow the checklist! It's too easy to miss a step, otherwise.
It was a flight I won't forget in a hurry, thank you.
Respectful. Everyone makes mistakes. Only few guys would like to share the experience. Grass landing and take off are the most stressful things during my PPL training. Feels like it takes forever to airborne. And keep the nose high means it's hard to estimate the runway remaining.
Thanks Jackie.
Thanks for generously sharing your experiences in the interest of improving aviation safety. We all make mistakes… I even recall forgetting to complete my engine run up on one occasion due to fatigue and pressure to depart quickly.
I checked the takeoff performance chart for my Mooney and it shows a 10Kt tailwind typically requires a 20% increase in takeoff distance to clear a 50ft obstacle. It’s not only the takeoff run, but the increasing wind gradient as you climb adds even more to the problem. I’m wondering if a takeoff to the South might have been the best option.
Thank you Peter for the watch and excellent comment.
You my friend, are very lucky ! I discovered your videos recently and I very like it, they are instructive. Keep going !
Super kind thank you. Just remember I am not an instructor just a real world pilot trying to keep safe.....and failing at times. Thank you again Vykel
Great rundown, and good on you for your honesty and sharing your EXPERIENCE that might save another pilots life. Great stuff here.
Thank you Sir.
Excellent video Terry. As you have always said, you share the good and the bad. Not that this was bad but it is a valuable lesson for us all to be aware of. When there are external pressures it can be easy to make mistakes and omissions. Thanks for putting this together and for sharing it with us all. 👍😎
Thank you Tim, at least if it does go wrong one day the AAIB will have plenty of footage. :-)
holy cow.... that was a close one.. as for checklists, i have memorised MOST of the checklists, but i always verify with the checklist paper :D
yeah, familiarity can and does breed contempt 🙂
Reading a checklist and doing the items correctly are two totally separate things and we need to get them both right, everytime. Thanks for the great comment and view.
@@ShortField oh yes totally... my general process is.... on the ground follow the paper... in the air, do what you memorised and then double check with the paper... especially in the case of an engine out
Thanks for sharing Terry, as a fellow Sportcruiser pilot I find your videos invaluable.
Cheers Nathan, brilliant aircraft as you know but still can bite you if you mess them around.
Hi Terry - I know you would have been mortified when you reviewed the flight and saw the error. Risk is inherent in everything we do and we do our best to mitigate them. This is one of those, where we are thankful you have shared this review of the flight, because you have given us all a pause for thought moment to check our process management, workflows and checklists. Sincerely grateful you have shared this, including your mitigations - Your honesty and humility in posting this, is truly appreciated. Lee
Thanks Lee what a wonderful comment. Really appreciate this thanks buddy.
@@ShortField You're welcome Terry.
A brilliant YT recommendation and i am now a subscriber.
I caught the the problem immediately and felt your pain.
Do you calculate Density altitude as well?
I would recommend doing your vital checks all the time, not if its less than 500m as you suggested. This will in-still a disciplined attitude to all phases of flight and not just certain conditions.
- B737 Captain.
Wow thank you Captain, feel very humbled that you should enjoy my little video even if it showed my as a bit of a dork. This field sits at 180ft but on the day had a DA of 1,250ft. We get complacent about DA in the UK as most fields are only a few hundred feet above sea level and with a temperate climate it rarely affects performance too much, whereas in the States I know it is a must for every pilot. We do get caught out on very high temperature days (we currently have forecast 40 oC in London later this week) and that will catch people out with performance. Thank you so much for the sub hope I can keep it Sir. Cheers Terry
@@ShortField the UK does benefit from its lower temperatures year round i must admit. As a tip, do you calculations in the planning stage using max tailwind component. You will know for sure if you can or cannot get out.
Dont worry about feeling like a dork, we all make mistakes even airline pilots. We learn more from a mistake than success.
Keep at it, stay safe.
If I recall at my airport years ago there was a C-172 with 4 soles on board. A new young pilot who had to do an aborted landing and forgot to retract the fully deployed flags and was unable to climb and stalled. All perished. Things can go bad in a hart beat.
So sad. I do count my blessings Erik, thank you.
I think I might know the incident you are talking about and that was sad indeed. Pilot learned to fly in I believe a Cirrrus SR20 with electrically actuated flaps that only take one touch on the switch to fully retract. Got checked out to fly a Cessna with flaps that don't act the same and managed to take-off with full flaps deployed on the first flight with his family members on board. He assumed the issue when he couldn't climb was that he was too heavy with 4 people on board, and I speculate that when he decided to return to the runway he chopped power to conserve runway length instead of just lowering the nose and coming up to a comfortable approach speed first. Probably doesn't help that new pilots are drummed so forcefully with the power for altitude / pitch for speed mantra - he wanted to go down to get back on the ground!
As a pilot that flew from a private farm grass strip with 80ft trees at one end and power lines on the other end, Here is the technique we had to use: Full power no flaps to start the roll, only light back pressure on yoke to keep the nose light but not to rotate it. At about 1/2 the runway length pull 20* (two click on the Johnson bar) flaps. This would pop the plane up into ground effect While not rotating the thrust angle down. Accelerate in ground effect to VX and hold that until clear of the trees/power lines.
If the plane is rotated but still on the ground you’re losing usable thrust. The force vector is pointing downward and the vertical portion is unusable. By keeping the force vector a close to parallel to the ground you’re using the most of the thrust the prop is providing while simultaneously minimizing p-factor and the required drag increase of the rudder counteracting it.
Give this method a try sometime (on a large runway first of course)
Will do, thanks Brian.
Wow! that was close. Very glad it all worked out, though. Thanks for sharing this post flight brief with us.
Thank you Thomas appreciate the comment and view Sir.
Hi Terry. Thanks for posting this, as it's an extremely interesting video. I appreciate you're already accepting a certain added risk associated with short field operations so you may not consider what I'm about to write is relevant to your flying, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
For the Cessna 152 that I fly the POH states that 10% should be added to the Vref distance for every 2 kts of tailwind. Clearly, the old wheezer isn't anything like a Sportcruiser (even when new!) & those figures may only be directly relevant to a 152 but doing that calculation still gives a 606m Vref distance with takeoff flap set & I'm unsure how far you can bend the basic laws of physics & aerodynamics in favour of your aircraft.
Are you in the habit of making a firm commitment to being at a certain airspeed by a certain point or rejecting takeoff? I know this is a bit of an arbitrary concept but it might serve to crystallise thinking to avoid "get out of here-itis". A great example of this is in Eric Browns book, when he had to fly an Arado 234B out of a very, very short field. I won't bore you with the details, but he managed it, just...
And I was just about to go to bed Steve and then you post a great comment that I have to reply too :-) It's so hard to get figures for the SportCruiser as it doesn't have a performance graph. My calcs were based on the basic info in the POH and 500 hours of flying one, so not totally accurate. If I have space I will have a go-no go or V2 commit to flight point but TBH on these short ones when you're at the end of the strip in 18 seconds there's really not much point. Brilliant comment thanks right I'm off to bed 🙂
@@ShortField hope you slept OK! Yes, I guess 500hrs of experience does give you a "security blanket". Maybe you just found that yours had a hole in it... anyway, blue skies!!
Nice video analysis. I will say that this kind of operation being sought out has inherently greater risks because you don't have that 30% or 50% margin available any longer. Being proficient helps, which you won't have an issue with by doing this so often. However: then you need to consider the rate of accidents per hour or number takeoff and landings to a short field. There's no two ways about it: the accident rate is significantly higher, and for a reason.
It's higher because with everything dialed in and correctly done: it makes a safe margin on takeoff. With any one little itty bitty issue: it's disaster. Let's just say one mag fails while you're doing your ground effect acceleration... What then? You won't make it. Give yourself more margin or a higher performing aircraft for this kind of operation. You've got to "give yourself an out" and frankly there isn't one in this short field operation. It's meant for a Cub (or even a Super Cub!). Maybe consider that against the aircraft you're using. It seems very capable, however as you've demonstrated - it's deadly consequences with any small error or mechanical issue.
Have you considered what would happen if just one spark plug fowls? With those margins: you're in the trees and THOSE statistics don't favor you.
Awesome comment. Totally agree and always aware of the increased risks with strip flying, you either accept them or you don't and if you don't you don't do it. There is a slight addiction to getting in to short gnarly strips, eventually you will find the limit but sadly it might be your last flight. Normal safety margins and buffers don't really apply to strip flying, for example I like to have a point on the runway where I can abandon the take-off but on fields like this when you are at the end in under 17 seconds you don't get much opportunity. I agree with everything you say in your comment thank you.
@@ShortField cheers from Florida. Ironically after 11,000 hours I finally had my first true engine failure.... In a glider 🤣
Your video was spot on. I enjoyed it. In the glider I run the flow, the checklist, then the flow one last time before applying power. Maybe give that a go.
@@TheSoaringChannel I'm assuming you fly a motor glider or is engine failure in a pure glider no wind, no lift or winch failure 🙂
@@ShortField LoL also yes 🤣 yessir it's a self launching glider. For now it's just a pure glider. Best part of having a pure glider? Can't have an engine failure. Just a loss of lift. Hehe Even from 3000' it takes nearly 25 minutes before you have to land. Just crazy.
Fly safely buddy. New subscriber. 😊
None of us are infallible! Thank you for posting, another enjoyable watch and gives us all food for thought :) I look forward to your next installment (with flaps)!
🤣 let's hope I get it right next time Rich. Thanks for the kind comment and watch buddy.
Brilliant video. Thankyou so very much for sharing your experience.
Cheers David.
Your honesty here will save lives is my hope. Thank you for this video!
Thank you so much appreciate this kind comment.