Breaking Down Why Each Transformation Is Earned In Dragon Ball… Let Me Cook
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2024
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TSO_Sage is the type of guy that if he had a chance of choosing between killing himself and unlocking Ssj Rage in real life, he would choose the first one.
🌚🌚‼️‼️
Gohan's mystic form was literally "sit here for 24 whole hours and be as strong as you'll ever be for the next 10 years." He didn't struggle, and his training before hand was miniscule at best. He is a planet buster and "trained" by being a petty crime vigilante. I can see it is nice to put Gohan back into the story, but it's absolutely unearned by its execution.
It was ssj2 part 2 but with less training before hand and without the nostalgia. They have the same principles but doing it a second time and worse just diminishes its impact even more
Even though early Buu saga Gohan is weaker than Cell saga Gohan, he’s still arguably stronger than cell by the time he fights Dabura
@realmasker8647 I mean cool, but they don't show that well. They say "oh boy, I goofed on the training" and show his Saiyaman stuff. How does that convey he's strong? Vegeta even criticizes his training in the Dabura fight saying if he trained, Dabura is light work no reaction. So it certainly doesn't show how he could be as strong as Cell era fighting Dabura. It's arguable, but you need to show me not hope I guess. Maybe that's just Japanese to English, but can we get a damn interpreter in here? I don't think it should be on Americans to read the TV and not watch the fight when the Japanese don't have to do that. They don't broadcast DBZ in English to Japan, so just properly interpret it for us then if it's like all that.
@@realmasker8647gohan’s not weaker he’s the strongest during the buu saga he just wasn’t put in the main role super buu is the strongest buu form especially after he absorbs everyone kid buu is just the most chaotic or unhinged which makes him unpredictable and dangerous mf was just a gremlin the way the saga was wrote was bs
Yes.. totally ignore the fact a god was unlocking his potential. “Deserving” a power up and “working for” a power up are 2 different things. By your logic children don’t deserve to eat bc they didn’t work for it. Stray animals don’t deserve a home bc they don’t work to get one. You didn’t work to have this video made. Someone else did. So you don’t deserve to watch it. See how that doesn’t work?
Sage, you have NO idea how good
It feels as a FRESH dragon ball fan to have someone I already know loving it. Keep doing you my guy
Btw I JUST started Kai and am playing DBZ Kakarot
You missed out on the Falconer score. Y'all pour one out for the homie
@@lamarco18it’s not gonna kill the experience
@@-jay-2993 it does for me. He'll be fine sure but it's a hard watch for me without it
Well you grew up on it, that makes sense.@@lamarco18
fax@@lamarco18
15:00 The conversation I found with Goku and Piccolo talking on a rock was right in the middle of Gohan and Piccolo training during the lead up into the U6 tournament.
Gohan was DOWN to compete, until he found out he had an academic conference he needed to attend that day.
Gohan spent the whole two years training in his off-time. He still had a day job, but he was putting in some work on a regular, routine basis.
In the manga we even see him using Bulma and Vegeta's Gravity chamber
If married father's can still hit the gym a couple days a week, Gohan has zero excuse when he has a Chamber that LITERALLY alters the flow of time. Dende even took off the 48 hour limit. Vegeta been in there like a full week by now. Hell he can do his damn work in the chamber too
@@richborn6700 but he ages in there just like he would in a real year's time
@@richborn6700 But Gohan works his dream job. It's not like Gohan can just give up his childhood dream, nor should he have to. Beside he still makes time to train. The U6 tournament was just a last minute request that couldn't be accepted due to scheduling. It's not like the stakes were high enough for Gohan to blow off the career he's been wanting since he was 4.
Would be cool to see your reaction to Carthu’s road to Orange Piccolo. I think it’s not a Mikey transformation despite what others say, & it was skipped over in the video
Would love to see you reacting to more of carthus videos , he knows his stuff and tries to actually educate
9:01 is so true 😭gohan barely trains and not even close to as much as goku and the others, and boom he gets "enraged" and then he's the strongest mortal again
Bs. Gohan does train just not as much as Goku or Vegeta
Lmao when you announced Super Saiyan rage your face said it all " Ah shit here we go again"
16:20 "i like this guy" tell me everything about bout of you youtubers. Keep rockin
Bro you make good anime content I hope you blow up soon
ME. TOO. 😂😂
I just gotta say, huge shout out to carthu, legitamatly one of the best dragon ball creators on this platform, and his editing goes hard asf
I will say I like the idea that the logic behind Trunks rage form is only justified if it is because Trunks is either absorbing some of Goku and Vegeta's expelled god ki or by being around them his body is starting to learn how to produce it naturally just to a lesser degree, hence why he gains the BLUE aura. Him subconsciously using their ki could also be foreshadowing to him learning too use others ki for the spirit sword later.
Nah
Can’t wait to see how rage is defended 😂
Rage was in fact not defended
I can, trunks got really really really really really mad and started raging all over the place
@@3clisp315he wasn’t wrong tho 👀
Well trunks is one of the few z fighters to lose everyone in a no dragon ball setting. So off that alone. Makes more sense than beast. Damn near the same thing.
Another line of thinking. Is fabricating that you always thought that grade 3 trunks got way too many comparisons to broly. This was definitely an opinion like raging blast era. Trunks is teen gohan and broly is the yamcha that got penetrated by toj-gero.
But Yk what at least trunks actually fought vegeta and goku competitively
-piccolo was still very garbage and special Beamer reliant
-gotenks got riggity wrecked in base
-trunks couldnt see the himothy aura from gohan no mo. I still don’t. Goku was Uber trolling and sandbagging like hell.
I feel like rage could be justified if trunks had got the form in Z instead of super cuz it would pretty much be a rage boost just like gohan but now we have to believe trunks is just super duper mad this time compared to when his entire timeline got destroyed by androids 😂
Damn. He makes a good point about Caulifla. Like it's not because she has a really like super tingly back that she's super saiyan. That's how Cabba understands it.
Vegeta earns his through rage, but it's more difficult because he refuses Goku's help. He heard 100 times gravity and said "F U, KAKAROT! I'LL TRAIN AT 300 TIMES GRAVITY." Caulifla doesn't only have a tingly back, they just got told where to focus their energy by somebody else who did it. They're like a softer group and Cabba can't teach rage. I still don't like it, but he convinced me it's more earned than I thought.
That's still BS. Because given how strong they are at base, they should realistically already be Super Saiyans. They shouldn't have needed to unlock it in the first place, but since that is the route they chose to go down, then having not just SSJ, but SSJ2 be unlocked with such ease by rookies who didn't even know the form existed before Vegeta showed Cabba when it took Goku, a fighting genius, a whole year to analyze the form and his hybrid son an epiphany into rage trigger to unlock the Ascended SSJ form, is some BS.
@espurrseyes42 I thought that before too, but think about how difficult it would be for the first heart surgery. The doctor goes in with a theory and it doesn't work. He teaches the next person what went wrong for him, and the next person fails. On and on until it's so easy, literal children are doing it. So Goten and Trunks can unlock it because "it's cool, huh?" but universe 6 can't because they were taught how to do it wrong? Now you can think of the heart surgery as the introduction of new imaging techniques. It's very different way of completing it, but it's still the same task.
@@alexsmith3598
Goten and Trunks can unlock SSJ because they're fucking hybrid sons of SSJ fathers. They can go SSJ because they have the good genes that makes it easier for them to go SSJ. Caulifla doesn't. And it's not like they did anything of note with it. They fought each other in a casual match, then messed around in Fusion with it, ultimately not killing Buu and making him stronger when they got absorbed. If nothing else, them being SSJs is treated as a joke. Not something serious you should actually care about. Like Caulifla's tingly back bs, her unlocking SSJ2 shortly after SSJ, and using her forms to press a God level Goku as someone with no God power, no 1000 years of experience, no real training of any kind, or any other kind of explanation for her to be on par with someone this strong.
@@espurrseyes42 vegeta wasn't a ssj when he had trunks. Vegeta went to space and became a ssj and didn't come back until 19 and 20 showed up. He did the deed with bulma before going to space and before becoming a ssj. so how did kid trunks achieve it so easily if his dad wasn't a ssj when they were making him?
Even if vegeta couldn't go super saiyan at the time he still had an extremely high battle power for a saiyan
Gohan was 9 when he turned super saiyan and goku wasnt even near the battle power of Namek Vegeta when Gohan was born
Also Base Kid trunks has trained with Vegeta in the Gravity room at 150 times gravity
Meanwhile Namek Goku trained at 100x and got a zenkai boost before turning super saiyan
Vegeta asks Goku why not invite Gohan to the U6 Tournament and Goku says something to the effect of:”Gohan’s been slacking he’s not really going to be all that good in a fight.”
And Vegeta says:”Really? Damn, that’s a shame.”
THANK YOU!! I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY 😂 now I’m just concerned about the TOP one with Goku & Piccolo, didn’t they have a similar convo?
@@TSO_Sage no I don’t think so. I think you’re confusing it a bit because Piccolo is in a scene involving Gohan from that same arc.
Don’t take my word for it tho.
If you want, first look up:”Why not Gohan?”
On RUclips. I think that’s the scene you’re confusing it for.
The other scene I’m referencing tho is where Gohan actually does show up and hears Piccolo’s considering joining the U6 Tournament and asks Goku if he can join for the experience. This is when he admits he’s been running the basics with Piccolo.
But when Goku tells him to be ready in 4 days Gohan goes into a panic because he wants to ask Videl first, and then he’s thinking too much about Pan (like bruh, leave him at Bulma’s).
THEN he says he has an academic conference he can’t miss so basically Gohan says:”On second thought I care about my family too much to go. I’m so sorry father!
Goku’s like:”Uh…I mean yeah, no I don’t care if that’s important to you, go do what you gotta do.”
And then Piccolo takes Gohan’s spot instead.
But Piccolo never once tells Goku Gohan isn’t ready to my knowledge since he trains with him on and off.
Look up:”Vegeta and Goku ask Gohan to be in the U6 Tournament.” That’s the scene I’m referencing.
@@TSO_Sage no there’s no scene with Piccolo that I’m aware of. Piccolo was just there when Gohan asked to join the U6 but Gohan quickly backed out when he realized it would’ve been in 4 Days.
Then when they recruit Piccolo, Gohan is there and says “I’ve been training with Piccolo again, are you sure you don’t want me dad?” And goku is reluctant but agrees since he sees how much Gohan wants it. Until he remembers he has actual responsibilities which Goku respects much more than his will to fight
@@santiagoespinoza-tellez yeah I wrote that out in a whole comment but it deleted for some reason. Thanks for filling that part out tho
Everyone forgets that sayain/human hybrids have way more potential than full blooded sayains... they mentioned it before
Imagine Gohan already new this power-up off camera then didn't even think of trying to obtain it. Until Piccolo got bodied by Cell
The best I can come up with for 17 being so damn strong is the fact that he's technically in the same boat as Frieza. Dude was a normal guy before he became an android, meaning his power level in the cell arc was his bare the minimum of his strength without any training
Factor in that he got there in a time Goku couldn't cause he was slower at the time... but even so yeah still skeptical bout how much he trained compared to Goku
3:30 bro got that shii unlocked like twice
We did see a glimpse of Ssjb when Goku and vegeta clashed with whis saying to kinda hint at them making a breakthrough
We never seen the backstory of the U6 saiyans so we don't know their full potential. Yea caulifa and kale probably unearned their transformations but i feel they just have too much potential to where if had discovered SSJ before they met U7, they probably could've been able to do it but only if they need about SSJ
If your gonna read the manga, watch carthus breakdown on them, he does them so well
I feel Mystic is unearned, but Gohan DID cop a Zenkai Boost during the Buu saga alongside the Z-Sword training.
Sage if u do read the manga please read it from chapter 5 from when the U6 vs U7 tournament arc begins because that arc is when the manga differs from the anime in terms of events and powerscaling. The whole DBS manga is different from the anime
SSJR was literally foreshadowed when vegeta goes blue he says “so goku and vegeta acquired the forms by fighting beerus” trunks was unconsciously absorbing god ki off black and possibly vegeta during the training same way he did the spirit sword.
I think after freiza, gohan did train, but during his off time. He's still has a job and stuff, so he can't train all day like vegeta and goku do most of the time or even piccolo.
We feel the same about rage. But beast helps me accept rage
10:12 “how dare you, THATS MY BULMA!!!!!”
1:01
You know…I’ve been trying to remember where the hell I’ve seen “Go-Go Gum” from Xenoverse 2….
Looks like I had to look WAY back, ITS A GIRAN TECHNIQUE?!
Definitely read the manga, it’s 🔥
15:13 I'm 99% sure the scene you're talking about doesn't actually say Gohan hasn't been training, it's that he's busy with work, if I'M misremembering mb
He said he practices every once and a while
The sage form was probably temporary, and he get that form after he absorbs the remaining humans life force
It's implied that Vegeta didn't even get Super Saiyan 2 without Babidi's unlock.
carthu my guy fr he been cooking since i known em🔥, but i like how you add your opinion to make the conversation more debatable and open for discussion. Sub from me 💯
Honestly I just assumed Frieza got god ki when he started actually trying to grow stronger and that’s what golden frieza is.
Please react to Carthu more he knows his stuff, you should consider his what ifs
Android 17's power is completely earned.
He's an android that can train without any rest. And he was born with a power higher than Frieza.
Except he doesn't...even has a family. His "training" consists of poachers with tanks and guns, last time I checked, that's like Kid Goku vs Red Ribbon scaling.
@@Jetblast01
Goku, Vegeta and the others train by themselves a lot of times tooks just punching the air and sparring
@@AlanLiebheartYeah, in like gravity chambers or weighted gear.
@@Jetblast01
Um no. In regular places.
That was Goku's training a lot of times in OG DB, during the 5 years right before DBZ, during the 3 years before the androids, etc. He also spars with Whis in base form, not even going super saiyan.
If anything, DBS has shown you can get stronger even if you're not training at full power. So 17 deserves it.
@@AlanLiebheartThat's some Luffy levels of reach there...
You can read or just watch a summary version. Still good
The only forms that I feel is unearned is ofc beast gohan, super saiyan rage and ultimate gohan
Isn’t SSJ Rage anime only transformation?
An unearned transformation to me is caulifla’s ssj transformation
I would love to watch you go through the Manga but would anything be posted to RUclips I can't really catch twitch streams
Vegeta Blue is gorgeous idk what you're on. Also I'm just a lowly youtube watcher but I'd be down to see you read some manga.
im just a lowly youtuber man but i do actually wanna see manga… however bluer vegeta SUCKS!
Ngl the ssb evolved explanation would be cool but wouldn’t it then be ruined with vegeta later on going into ultra ego?
The only thing I'll add to Carthu's point with Ultimate Gohan, even though I disagree with him, is that Gohan's base form definitely shows to be greater than Goku's before the unlock. If you end up running the scales and truly calculate it, you will eventually find that Gohan as a hypothetical SSJ3 is only somewhat weaker than himself in the Ultimate form. In retrospect, it really isn't as big of a boost as it seems, but that does NOT change the fact that it's an unearned power-up to me. I will solemnly accept that Gohan did his training for a lot of the power though. But, again, Gohan's got a lot of potential showing in these recent arcs. Think about how little he trained to even get that strong? That's a jump similar to Goku's base in the Time Chamber crodie
Beast Gohan is awesome 😊
When did they say he trained for 40 years when all we seen was him boxing a worm monstwr thats weaker then a laser beam
2:10 no one thought that
Technically Piccolo did train more efficiently than Goku on King Kai’s planet Goku just train to balance himself on 10 times earth gravity and the Spirit Bomb Piccolo trained his power than fused
It's wild to me that people will base their entire opinion on someone else's just bc they have a large following instead of research and facts, ur content is goated bc u refuse to do that, based dragon ball fans are hard to find
Nah the only ssj that was unearned was caulifla and kale bro, caulifla turned a power-up born off primal rage into a personal back scratcher. "Ey my back tingles!" *goes super saiyan. And as for kale she just got jealous at people who were near caulifla and went beserk 💀
so are you also mad at the fact that kid trunks and goten went ssj with ease and that goten got it protecting himself against chichi? cause its REALLY the same thing if not worse, we CAN use the fact that the u6 saiyans have alot more s-cells which helps with geting super-saiyan cause there a more peaceful version of the normal saiyans basically, especially when cabba and the other u6 saiyans are stronger than cell-saga gohan, so they certaintly HAVE the power to handle it, there isnt much of an issue with it
So gohan had not trained much and it was mostly light. Also he had stopped training for through the resurrection F arc. He struggled to become a super saiyan 😂
Gohan’s mystic form was 100% unearned, but it also doesn’t work. I think people look at that form the wrong way. It was the narrative way to show Goku that no matter how strong Gohan was, he was never going to be the fighter Goku is because he doesn’t have the mind for it. It wasn’t until a stronger than SSJ3 Goku version of him lost did Goku decide that he should maybe be brought back to life. Goku needed to actually be there for his kids to show them the path and mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks failing were the catalysts for that character growth in Goku.
I think Freeza and 17 power boost are mutually tied, I don’t believe you can let one pass without the other
But 17 didn't really train, right?
@@Bendanna93 in the manga he trained with cell juniors, in the anime it was just fighting animals, poachers and training solo. Do you remember what freezas training was?
@@mrhopadopalusfighting one of his goons
@@liamroma3677 more like beating the shit out of him 😂, but yeah it wasn't like significantly more complex or harsh than what 17 was doing, and freeza only did it 4 months.
Frieza was stated to be a being with high potential thats not the case for 17
If there is any form of Gohan I feel as unearned is the latest Beast form. As for Piccoro Jr. it's the Orange form as he wished to have his potential unlocked by Shenlong. He wasn't worthy of it. I like Ultimate Gohan. I am not sure if it's a form or not but it make some sense. It would have made even more sense if he joined the fight against Kid Boo. Gohan would end Kid Boo in 5 seconds.
Carthu is very hit or miss sometimes
*cough* Baby vegita *couch*
SSB is actually well written in the manga
If we being honest than all piccolo’s power ups are micky
Super Saiyan Blue is handled INFINITELY times better in the manga because in there Goku and Vegeta actually had a whole ass struggle to go through to master the form, so in the manga it is pretty earned even if it was off screen
3:02 no way yall thought goku was from earth even from the 1st 10 episodes of the show its cleaar as day he not from here
These zenkai boosts make me wonder about beginning of the Android saga Frieza. Since he was using a lot of power and essentially got a zenkai by surviving Goku’s angry Kamehameha in the Namek saga. If it’s nothing then I guess you could say Frieza went from Namek Frieza level to golden in 4 months for RoF.
uh, zenkai's can only be aquired/gain'd just from sayians or a saiyan hybrid...please just watch the series abit or somethin
The only earned transformations Gohun has was SSJ and SS2, Mystic form unearned, Beast unearned, potential unlocked unearned. I do feel SSG was earned but by different means because Goku had invest enough of his life for their to be enough good hearted Saiyans for the God Ritual to work. Regardless of popular belief SS4 Vegeta was earned and it was due to a line from Bulma, stating it would work because unlike in the past your body should be more than strong enough for the blood waves amplifier to work. Disclaimer I'm not a hater of the Beast Gohun and Orange Piccalo transformations because the characters were in need of a buff but the execution of said forms and lack of progression as characters make them asspull transformations.(One of the worst things about Dragonball are timeskip power ups where they give little to no actual development from series to series) But back on track 3/5 of Gohun's forms was unearned, 1 of Goku forms was unearned(SSB Kaioken Goku because it's shows no context of him training with it since he abandoned the usage of it after Namek Arc). Orange Piccalo he literally made a wish to get his potential unlocked(And I am a Piccalo fan. It was very disappointing in its execution) Ido feel all of Vegeta's are earned only one might be is SS4 but the fact of Bulma's lines and the fact that Vegeta always retained his consciousness while in Great Ape I feel enough is there.
It would be very cool if you read the dragon ball super manga's arcs as of now that the manga is on haiatus due to the passing of the legend akira toriyama
Gohan hasn't earned a power up since the cell games.
Honestly man, despite loving how super saiyan is portrayed in the cell arc, I hated how he got the form in namek. You might argue the thing about accepting his nature but thats only really true from everything that comes before the frieza fight, the form itself is unlocked through rage and prophecy, both of which dont feel like goku or what he represents. The scene in the time chamber however, where goku realizes that having a calm mind and stable body in the SS state is way more important than raw power feel way more in key with what goku, and even dragon ball as a whole, represent. The way he humiliates frieza feels like goku tho, ngl its like hes fighting nappa again.
That swagkage take was 100% spot on. These nerds believe anything some people say lol.
Asspullicious for most of these
Doesn't Gohan reveal in the latest movie that he was training in secret? That could be the same reason between golden freeza and Zenoh expo tbh.
It was Verbally Explained in the movie, and People said it wasn't a good enough reason.
People need to understand Gohan Isn't Goku, Gohan Trains and Fights outta necessity.
@@Synical02 I thought that would be the case thanks for reminding me
@@Synical02No one's saying he needs to train like goku, they want him to be his cell saga self, someone who maintains himself a fights to protect which hasn't done in years since he's so dismissive when piccolo tells him that goku and vegeta won't always be around.
@@TrueReverse74 Yea I know, but he literally saids he's kept up his training.
He's been training since the Rof beast was alluded to In super, and you See him and Piccolo show up to fight moro showing he's still been training because Moro is after the Top ,and Broly then he was absent from Granolah which makes sense . So he's been showing it ..
Like the Evidence is quite literally Right there I think people just don't like the fact he's done it in secret.
@@Synical02well they don't accept it because it's poor writing, they could just as easy shown glimpses of Gohun training or give indication of him progressing. That's why it's considered an asspull you only get one line of dialogue which is dismissive at best.
he was training with the sword before he broke it so how did the swords power help him lift something his daddy couldnt? even tho goku be lying
Majority of the Forms arent Asspulls
They are usually Referred to Often subliminally or Outright Stated.
People just like yea that's not good enough.
Beast; Takes place After Granolah,and After the Top. Meaning Gohan coulda been training in His top Condition for a year, But off screen training aint good enough except when Vegeta does it.
Also Apparently people STILL dont understand Broly is a MUTANT.
Yeah but the problem is that it is constantly reiterated that gohan slacks off on his training when goku and vegeta are literally training all the time and fighting all the time. It's more believable when vegeta does it because it's actually established multiple times that vegeta trains just as much and sometimes more than goku. Vegeta literally sees gokus gains and says ight bet ima do what he's doing. Ima do something new and train with God's. Gohan does all the same training from Z. No new teachers, no new training method. Is on and off with his training and is usually forgotten in most arcs.
@@AndreJones-wh2pc Yea that's true, But people seem to forget most Forms are NOT gained through Training Strictly.
Only 3 Forms were Gained through Training.
Mainly every other Form was gained from Strong Emotions or some ritual I think DB needs to Dedicate an Episode to Sayian Biology.
I also hope people know UI,and UE arent new forms.
@narcoticlilac6588 I agree with that. I'm not mad at the form itself. But it just seems like out of nowhere gohan just woke up 1 morning and decided to be the strongest. It's just that the power jumps from a character who isn't nearly half as consistent in his training as the 2 guys who train with God's and angels and are constantly on the front lines fighting the strongest guys and gohan is a no show for the majority of arcs. At this point gohans potential is being used as a weak plot device.
We are talking about a fictional world where a character can be a 0 then go straight to being the strongest because said character is special... Welcome to the world of anime, superheroes and science fiction.
I don't get why people are so upset about such things. Gohan literally did this all the time in Z. Nothing new.
@@leopoldwebster1130 Except in Z he earned his power most of the time. Gohan had instances when he became the strongest but they were just that, instances. The point throughout the story is that gohan could only be the strongest by tempering himself to use that rage to his advantage. He injured raditz, and hit on frieza but those were never gonna be the reasons he could beat them. It took goku training Gohan to understand his power, use it efficiently and THEN get mad after 16's pep talk. That's what a story arc is. Saying "It's fiction so we shouldn't think" is just a stupid cop out of an arguement
The differences between Goten & Trunks is their super saiyan power comes from their Father's being either Super Saiyan or around Super Saiyan level when they were born it's genetics.
When Gohan was born Goku was nowhere near ready for Galactic type fighters even Piccolo he wasn't close to him remember Kami split Piccolo so technically Goku was never stronger because it was stated a fused version of Kami & Piccolo was able to wipe out Frieza on his own.
Goten & Trunks were born after Goku turned Super Saiyan and Vegeta training above 400 times gravity so it make sense why they turn Super Saiyans as kids.
That whole Kale & Kefla was force marketing to have girl type Saiyans & Super Saiyans nothing more definitely unearned!
one thing i hard disagree with is Vegeta's rage boost. we ALL know that Beerus was holding back through the entire arc/movie, so Vegeta landing blows on an extremely surpressed Beerus is plausible. also, Carthu goes into Super Saiyan God in the very next section, and explains that its earned because of the journey Goku's gone through to even have righteous saiyans, and i totally agree, but that same thing SHOULD be applied to Vegeta. He's gone through his entire character arc, and throughout the movie he was sucking up to Beerus. having him snap upon seeing Beerus hurt his family, despite how strong he KNOWS beerus is, is a testament to his character development and the care he now has for his family.
Please read the manga with us gang
i dont know about super Broly being technically earned… I am not going to deny he’s like a prodigy like Gohan. I don’t quite agree he’s “been training for 40 years”. no he was stuck on a monster/bug planet fighting (what we can assume) big to giant sized monsters… I don’t believe we were shown him sparring with his father. (he could’ve, but doubt considering his father has been shown in both dbz versions to be very weak.)
Which kinda brings the question of IS Broly smart to know how to fight from.. fighting giant sized monsters, to… Goku and Vegeta… in which we were shown Broly seems very green in fighting beings at his size and level.
Thus its a bit of a head scratcher if he’s actually combat smart vs just really seem to just go mindless rage mode until it works..
I kinda hate to say this but I don’t think Broly really dodged… anything.. He kinda just ate every attack, which makes me believe he’s not actually learning at all as he fights… he just gets more pissed off 😅😂 (and yes i know about Broly and Beast Gohan from the manga but the bigger issue is Broly just normally taking on everybody day 1 at unlocking his “potential” power)
I wouldn't have a problem with Ultimate Gohan if they did something with it IMMEDIATELY in Super. Not at the end of the last Super anime arc. I mean early on in the series, THEN paying it off by the ToP or Super Hero. Super ruins it by not having it being a stepping stone to something greater.
Fun Fact I’ve noticed rewatching DragonBall I don’t think ppl noticed that ever since Goku started Training with Kami and God Tier masters he was training to unlock Ultra Instinct thru the different abilities and Ki control he was learning to move without thinking
Ultra instinct is random and stupid.
@@darronwilliams4641 W hating, unfortanately thats cap is Ultra instinct is top 3 form in the franchise.
@@darronwilliams4641want to say why ?
@@kaienglish271 uhh because it literally comes outta nowhere after brief mentions. Its never talked abt through dragon ball nor dragon ball z. It was made up to randomly sell toys in super. Just like every other stupid transformation color swap they give characters now. Its all to sell toys. Not make sense
@@darronwilliams4641 it’s like you haven’t payed attention to DB or the Video explaining where UI came from Beerus first mentions it , then Whis is LITERALLY training them to learn UI and even if we use the manga all his past teacher taught him aspects of it 😂Just because they didn’t call it UI specifically doesn’t mean it had no foreshadowing
Gohan get the most unearned power ups and I’ll stand on that one. Potential unlocked is one thing and Super Sayian and ssj2 is another… beast is the most nonsense thing ever. He got his potential unlocked, then did the mystic train with elder Kai. So how does he get beast, and none of the head canon, cause how does he have hidden potential within his hidden potential?
100% agree. It would be more believable if they actually gave gohan more to do in the story and gave him more screen time but nah gohan slacks off in training and when he does train he surpasses goku doing the most basic training. Goku trains with God's and angels btw and is more consistent but gohan fans will just lean on potential to explain away all the asspull of beast.
Why did he skip Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan SSJ transformations?
read the manga just cos its some of the last stuff toriyama had something to do with
Oh my... is that what I think it is? Civilized people? ON THE INTERNET???? What a joy
Golden freeze unerned
I think you should read the manga to at least compare super to its anime it’s a fun read and something are written better in the manga to me but also it has two arcs that happen between broly and superhero you should check out for sure
I've seen this video several times, it's incredible to see a react from a fucking nerd which loves Dragon ball (like me) to watch this video too
Luv U ❤
Yup the read the manga bro bro. You be disappointed and alot of things you been wanting happens.
You'll enjoy where things have gone post T.O.P
I’m not gonna lie, specifically all of caulifla’s forms are unearned asf. No fucking way she only has to see the form and attempt it 1-2 times to get it.
Also for super saiyan blue, the anime doesn’t do it justice. The manga shows a lot more of the training leading up to blue existing including when vegeta unlocked it on accident trying to punch whis. The form is goofy but it’s a lot more valid than people think it is.
i can TRY to give a decentish explanation to why she was able to get it, shes stronger then gohan when he was ssj2, in her base, so she has the power requirement, and because of S-cells, and how they work the more peaceful or some bullcrap someone is, because universe 6 saiyans are more peaceful saiyans without tails, they can also go ssj easier cause of this fact, so to say it simply, they are quite litterly made for going into forms faster and better then the standard saiyan
ok 15:19 goku did say that in the anime so yes
Please do read the super manga it’s wayyyy better than the anime
But naruto does have a kid who can kill minato now 😂, another one on the way
idk i think if the u6 saiyans dont deserve it, goten and trunks still do. you cant rlly make the point to easily "teach" super saiyan when the form itself is first obtained via emotion and just overall shock of it. you cant just be like "im gonna make you mad so you power up" and start hurling insults at them to push like that. if anything it makes more sense for the half saiyan kids since theyre immature half humans who are more prone to raging emotions, especially considering who trunks' parents are lol
the universe 6 sayians have more S-cells cause there a more peaceful variant of the saiyan race basically, this HELPS them transform, also with the fact that apparently cabba is stronger then cell-saga gohan, so uh yeah they definitely have the power, and bs s-cell requirement like kid trunks just pulled it out of no-where, think about how goku went into ssj2 within the time-skip afterwards the cell saga, its so obvious you don't NEED to have rage or any true type of emotions for the super saiyan forms, but they do help
@@OnlySayori goku, future trunks, vegeta, and Gohan are all examples of why strong emotions like rage boosts are needed for a saiyan’s power like that. S-cells is such a dumb concept to write these characters in the power scale high enough to matter to the story. Just because it’s an explanation doesn’t mean it’s a good one. Awful writing choices, and even buu saga is at fault of smth like that because of goku’s ssj2
Please read the manga
5:03 thats not that crazy dawg saying piccolo can train just as affective as. Gokus when goku trained under kami and piccolo is kami
Carthu is the goat
damn? really each, all of them? ssjg is from a literal ritual, ssj3 was gained off-screen, and ui AND mui? ui maybe but mui is gained within the later part of a t.o.p that lasts for around 40 minutes, FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING THING, ssjb is gained through standard training, with whis which just looks like standard training for the most part, except very few scenes, mystic is ALSO another unearned power-up as its just gained through sitting for 24 hours and get strengthen them like all hell. there's also ssjrage, which was just COMPLETELY random, never mentioned again, and doesn't make any sense
SSJ3 was off screen too just like blue and I feel like blue has a better and ( although very simplistic) explanation on how they earned it. Goku got it off screen and gotenks just pulls it out his ass
people be like "ssj3 was EARNED" like bro got it off-screen, it helps goku coincidentally, with just everything against buu and his crappy variants, it was just another filler form
Beast was fan service. Just giving Gohan another super Saiyan 2 moment. It's gross tbh
Personally, I think 17's power is earned, or at the very least more earned than Frieza. If being a prodigy and training for 4 months is "earned" to you, while 17 doing self training with infinite stamina, uploaded with efficient training methods, was made to be leagues stronger than frieza and 3 super saiyans put together for 10 plus years? Sounds earned to me. On another note, Mystic and Beast feel pretty unearned to me since mystic is supposed to be his full potential only reached by sitting for hours and beast being rehashed ssj2 without any of the buildup or emotional weight behind it, I can forgive beast a little since the logic behind (that being that half-breeds are just blessed) is the same, and it's why Goten and Trunks get it and i'm ok with them. Ssj rage sucks though, Bluer vegeta sucks, Caulifla sucks. The reason I don't like caulifla's jump is because there is no precedent, build up or anything like that to justify her jumping to ssj2 with no explanation in one day. I know that they don't have to follow the rules since it's a different universe but it doesn't change that they were just given the forms, at least cabba had to get his ass beat. Also, if them "evolving past their tails" means that they have the potential of Hybrids in U7 then that'd be a nice explanation, too bad that didn't make it into the show.
frieza and 17 aren’t exactly the same thing. 17’s potential isn’t hinted to until the day we hear dende just say he’s strong. tbh it’s poorly explained all around & we have to infer things. but with frieza we’ve not only heard about him being a prodigy on multiple occasions, but flagrantly see he’s a novice and he even says he was just born strong. 17s is much more random with granted a somewhat logical reason, still heavily unearned. he’s cool but we ain’t gotta play pretend, especially if you’re a person who doesn’t like frieza & both of Gohans, to then think 17s is the best explained/earned is just inconsistent
also hes absurdly strong for 0 reason other than moving the story. being stronger than cell or even buu isn’t triggering, in fact that’d be more believable i can admit. but he’s MUCH stronger for again 0 reason. his thing is infinite stamina moreso than latent potential so im supposed to believe a warrior like tien with just unlimited senzu could be god if not blue level in a decade? mind you super is more 4-5 years after Z rather than the full 10. hell the idea that all along vs Beerus , 17 would’ve put up a significantly better fight is nasty 😂 even the manga makes him a bit weaker & handle Cell Jrs, because of how odd taming animal poachers = mid God to low Blue level is. it’s not good but to be fair to toriyama if someone had to get absurdly strong for the TOP offscreen, 17 & buu were likely the best candidates.
17 most definetly trained and sense he has infinite stamina and crap and had years worth of training is way better and made some sorta sense then freiza deciding to just be like "hmph fine gues i'll train to reach my ✨golden✨ racist form"
read the manga
Everyone forgot how Trunks called Gohan weak in the black arc? For all you Gohan fans defenders, I got one question for you, if Gohan is stronger cause of he is a hybrid and has potential, then why is Trunks still at SSJ2 level? He trains more than Gohan, so shouldn’t he be at least ssj3 level? I’m off course talking about when we first saw him not when he went Rage.
SSJ3 was unlocked via some special circumstances. I don't think Trunks would've been able to get it.
@@espurrseyes42 I’m not saying he should get ssj3 I’m saying he should be as strong or even stronger then ssj3
The Future Version of characters seem to just be weaker and have less Potential like Future Gohan who is like weaker then 50% of Future 17 who is weaker then present 17.
Trunks as a ssj 2 in the manga was stronger than ssj3 goku so there's that
Read the manga