What Suppressors Really Do To Velocity
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2023
- In today's video, we will see if adding a suppressor to a firearm has any affect on the muzzle velocity of a bullet. To do this, we will be testing 5 different cartridges with 5 shot averages for each (with and without a suppressor). Group testing with rifle cartridges was done at 100 yards.
9mm Setup - 4.61” Barrel/Silencerco Hybrid 46 (9mm cap)
Federal 115 gr FMJ
Winchester 147 gr FMJ
10mm Setup - 6.61” Barrel/Silencerco Hybrid 46 (45 cap)
Herters 180 gr FMJ
308 Win Setup - 16” Barrel/AAC Cyclone (30 cal)
Norma 147 gr FMJ
Federal Deer Thugs 165 gr SP
30-06 Setup - 18” Barrel/AAC Cyclone (30 cal)
Federal Deer Thugs 165 gr SP
7mm Rem Mag Setup - 26” Barrel/AAC Cyclone (30 Cal)
Hornady Superformance 162 gr SST
All velocity figures were gathered using a Magnetospeed V3 chronograph.
*As mentioned in the video, velocity figures will vary depending on the equipment used. Different barrels, suppressors, ammo, etc. will have an effect on results.
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You mean games have been lying this while time? I thought suppressors reduced performance not increase it 😂
I think in most games it's supposed to reflect the subsonic ammunition that's generally used in suppressors, which would reduce performance
They would be up if they actually reflected real life lol, there is a reason a lot of special forces use them and its not for noise (at least mostly) because suppressed rifle rounds will still annihilate your ear drums
@@jameslovdokken Sonic boom of the suppressed round I assuming. But suppressor has been improved massively now that even 50cal can shoot without ear protection
Longer "barrel" mean moar velocity, but I thought the same
@@AmalekIsComingnah it’s about game balance
I think hanging a weight on the end of the barrel might something to do with the groupings
Same here, the weight of the can will generally help in overall consistency.
it changes the harmonics of the barrel, probably makes it vibrate a little slower which accounts for the change in grouping
I think the chrono disturbs the muzzleblast,and may be affecting the bullet stability. I'm no expert, it's just my guess. Either that,or like others commented, it messes up barrel harmonics by it's weight. But since the suppressor captures most of the muzzle blast, it might be the reason why groups improved with the suppressor.
Magnetospeed has NEVER affected group size, only POI. And thats expected with something on the barrel just like a supressor. Some barrels (thin sporter) is affected more then other (heavy varmint or short rigid barrels).
Magnetospeed has ALWAYS affected group size. Anytime you hang something or touch the barrel during firing you affect harmonics and that always affects the bullet. Some barrels are affected more than others.
@@bille5399 only if its loose. Do you have a MS yourself? I use a supressor and MS or not does not matter. But thats on bolt action rifles and not automatic pistols or stupid sensitive weak barrel locking actions like AR15 mostly have.
@@jmkhenka yes I've had almost every chronograph commercially available. I even have the remote mount (hold on to the chassis not barrel) for the magnetospeed.
Anything touching the barrel affects what comes out of the barrel. (Some results are miniscule some aren't)
MS generally move the point of impact. It also impacts group size - more so the closer the sensors are to the bullet path. The suppressors increase this distance and reduce the effect. The other factor is that the position of the MS seems to be moving which could also change the point of impact for each position.
8:55 That reduction is probably due to the vacuum created behind the shell by the 26" maxing out and the hot gas in the suppressor started cooling and contracting. Gen 1/backpressure suppressors have no alternative but the breach and barrel, so the bullet is sucked back till the seal is broken. Common in airsoft when tuning the gear speed on the pneumatic piston. The extreme length and weight on that 26" with a thin long suppressor and the long mounted chrono adds a ton of weight on such a long arm it shifted down that much. Just needs some tuning. Long range/accurate shooters are warry of any touch on the barrel. The PoI from a suppressor, non free-float, barrel pressure from barriers, and a bunch of weight, especially from a non supressor. All of that screws with the barrel harmonics
My wild guess is the magnetospeed, with varying tightness to the barrel, adds inconsistency to your barrel harmonics, and the suppressor mass helped stabilize the barrels.
Where it goes the big groups follow 🤔
I think you could be right👍
Good test, I was expecting a greater velocity increase with the suppressor than what the results revealed.
I was as well, especially from the short barrels
I love how you come out with exactly the information I'm looking for, just as I'm looking for it. Excellent job dude ,
Your videos, comments and different zoom/slow motion effects are terrific.
You actually used the word "efficient" correctly. Congratulations.
Most gun guys think it's interchangeable with "effective", when it's truly not.
Dang good thing I wasn't betting on the results! I would have lost the farm. As with all of your videos, there are so many lessons learned. One for me, is reconsidering hanging various items way out the barrel on tactical riffles. Especially, after considering some of the quite wise thoughts already in this thread. Great video as always!
Wonderful test and review! I remember buying my only 44 mag cases for reloading, from USA Midway back in the 1980's! I still use the ones I bought from them today. They are stamped with: USA Midway on the bottom. I have reloaded everyone of those cases 8 to 10 times so far!! Good work on the video.
Great test I wouldn't have expected those results
the important thing is, it didn't make the velocity worst.
Thanks for the 10mm selection!!
Your videos are awesome keep it up
Appreciate that you make jokes about your shooting and include footage of things not always going smoothly.
When your channel gets big just don’t start acting like some of the other gun channel guys. Don’t need you acting all rich and better than everyone else like some others we know!
If all the guns had horrible groups shot on the same day, chances are it’s most likely shooter error. It wasn’t a good day for you to shoot. It happens, no big deal. I just wouldn’t have told the whole world about it! You’re an honest man, sir! I appreciate that! Thanks for the video!
It's the contraption on the end of the barrel that's causing the bullets to scatter.
It interrupts the natural oscillation of the barrel.
Try it without it, then see what your groups are.
What a great question I know I've been wondering.
Great demonstration here. Not using a sbr or sb pistol tho was a real missed opportunity being that the dividends for burn in barrel would be greatest, and the use case with suppressors most common on that rifle variant now.
Very interesting........I get better groups overall when using a suppressor too!
I'm curious as to whether the magneto hanging on the barrel was affecting barrel harmonics, causing the large groups. Then adding the weight of the suppressor helped to mitigate some of that loss in accuracy.
That’s a good point and what I was thinking.
That’s exactly what happened…
I think that you are correct. I had the exact same experience with what I was filming this weekend, but the groups shot without the Magnetospeed were night and day difference
@@bananaballistics there’s an idea for another video. Barrel harmonics.
@@bananaballistics I think the weight has just shifted the supressor, you should check for baffel strikes.
Pistols barrels are not the most rigid things, and some supressors are frankly crap when it comes to barrel and supressor aligment.
Good experiment.
My favorite gun, Channel. Keep up the great content cheers from Canada 🍻
I highly recommend you get the Garmin Xero Pro. No need to hang anything on your barrel. You can easily measure handgun bullet velocity with easy, that Magnetospeed is a thing of the past. Interesting results, thanks.
Cool beans... Good test
Never heard of a suppressor increasing velocity, but good to see the data anyway.
Would be interesting to see the effect of a flow thriugh suppressor on a semi
I just stumbled upon your videos and I love them. Can you do a 7.62x25 vs 9mm on steel plates.
Thank you I can provide ammo if needed.
Accurate 2495 works well with a 16” barrel. I run it through my ptr with no problems and it doesn’t have a gas system. I’ve run up to 42 grains in NATO cases. Also your groups are bad because of the magneto speed. It does it to me as well. That’s why when I do velocity tests I don’t worry about the groups. I tune that in with seating depth.
I really appreciate the info. That would make sense with all the harmonics at play. I have been playing with imr 4064 in my 16” but I’ll have to look into 2495.
That strap-on chrono is upsetting barrel harmonics and opening groups. It is also wiggling about from muzzle blast in a way that makes the velocity readings suspect.
So, it looks like the longer barrel rifle was getting a more complete burn of it's powder to the point it ALL burned before the bullet exited the weapon. The suppressor allowed the air to more fully expand and cool so a rarefaction was created in the barrel and the pressure behind the projectile dropped instead of continuing to increase.
You need to get some oversize thread protectors so the MSV3 does not slide down the barrel shot after shot. That movement will affect the groups as the harmonics change with each shot. Typically I see POI shift with the MSV3 on the barrel, but groups can shrink or increase.
I got that chrono when it first came out , it’s still in a box in the garage somewhere. Would have been great for public ranges and what not . I ended up wanting to shoot at it more than shoot with it .
Hi Banana,
You should paint the shield just in case shrapnel hits it and you can show it to us.
The 7 mag had a 26 inch barrel. All the powder was burned at 26 inches. Adding the silencer length decreased velocity due to the 26 inch barrel
I think if you want to see a velocity increase from a can its important for the can's caliber to closely match whats being fired. As in a can that can do 7.62 & 5.56 will not change much with a 5.56 but would add more to a 7.62
Your groups open up because of the harmonics changing from mounting of that chrono… specially on your barrel. On shorter than optimum length barrels for the peak burn of that load or cartridge… suppressor can add velocity. Howerer on longer barrels where peak powder burn is maximized… a suppressor likely will lessen the velocity. As for poi shift and accuracy a good suppressor gun combo on a good rig should add accuracy or does not affect it with minimal to no poi shift. Kinda like functioning as a barrel Tuner if you get lucky.
When I use a sled my groups are terrible …. I can shoot better off sand bags… interesting video I was thinking the other day does a suppressor effect velocity 😊
I believe the issue with your bench accuracy is your sled is moving quite a bit, and in some of your shots you see the bench come off it's feet as it walks, along with the back feet coming off the table. Weigh that sled down, get it to not move, and your bench accuracy should improve.
i did notice that your magneto speed was moving forward only without supressors, that can be doing big groups
You might want to add some lead, or sand, to your lead sled.
The gains or losses seemed to be within the extreme spread of each cartridge fired. None were significant, but reducing muzzle blast and flip should assist with repeatability, even if it "cost" a tiny bit of speed.
Suppressors and even your chrono would have a big effect on the harmonics of the barrel and thus the accuracy and point of impact.
10:11 that 7mm rifle had like a 4' barrel on it. The powder was burned by the time the bullet made it down the barrel.
Magneto working as "tuner" on barrel, not a surprise at it blows groups.
If you need any body guards from those assassins let me know..... 😎
I'm thinking you're just needing some practice shooting. Is everything you have that loose? Maybe a slower trigger pull?
Good video. ❤ Keep it up. Your channel is growing nicely. 🎈🥳🎈
If they beecome too much of a problem, I will let you know. I think that what most are commenting about the Magnetospeed touching the barrel is a lot of where the accuracy issues were coming from. It could be that I need to try some new techniques though
@@bananaballistics - I have never heard of Magneto-speed. That's a new one for me.
definitely assume the chrono made groups open up for sure.
I think you would have better bench groups if ya put some sort of weight on your lead sled. 😅
You’re not kidding. It doesn’t help much with the recoil without adding weight lol
The chronograph on the end of the barrel affects the barrel harmonics, causing erratic groups
@8:42 I've never had any luck with the 5 or so calibers of Superformance I've tried.
10mm is the starting point for pcc... Spicy is the best taco
That bee wanted to get into the video so bad it crashed right into your forehead😂
I think that bee was looking for a woman. It is spring....
@@redfaux74 And it found the man with the deepest voice ever instead
Got to love those simi automatic bolt action rifles . LoL 😂
What velocity did you get on that banana bro. Was needing a new calibre for some deer action.
I've always wondered if you cut baffles into a barrel and built a can over it, so the bullet is still spinning in the rifling, would it add velocity, I'm sure it would be more accurate than if that extra barrel length was a regular suppressor
I have the same Remington 700 long range in 7mm rem mag…….what exact model or part did you use for your detachable magazine kit?
I've never seen any rifle shoot small groups 1/2'' with any factory ammunition. When I started handloading, my groups went to 3/4'' or less...
Please do a 6.8 spc vs 5.56 vs 7.72x39.
Barrel temp?
Did it change from 1st to last?
Was the fire rate higher or lower with the semis auto?
Is the barrel weight different?
can you do 30.6 vs 8mm round test.
Did you use a 9mm suppressor with the 9mm and a .30 cal suppressor with the .308?
I have a 7mm REM Mag. Before my suppressor the bullet would travel through the animal but now with the suppressor the bullet blows up internal but no exit hole? Why is that?
Your sled jumps about a lot!
Definitely need to add some weight to it
The rifles seem to be jumping around a bit? Maybe that affected the groups?
Wondering, if you have an adjustable gas block on your AR10 and set it so gas does not cycle the bolt, in a 1:1 scenario (using 18” barrels), would a non-cycle semi-auto have the same velocity as a bolt action?
This is only to theorize, using an AR10 as a pseudo bolt using an adjustable gas block with the ability to open the gas for semi-auto when/if needed.
Just curious…
I just filmed a video covering this (only a 16” though) so that should be coming out sometime in the coming weeks.
Think you need a traditional chronograph. First time I've seen this type in decades of shooting and years of watching videos. I'm all for new tech designs but there is a reason people use the other type.
My friend, you should have shot a group without either the suppressor or the magnetometer on it to see if they were affecting accuracy. Hanging that thing way out on the end of the muzzle may have completely goofed your harmonics.
I think you are right. I usually get around inch or under with these rifles so that would make sense
That chronograph attached to a barrel might be affecting the accuracy.
BRAIS❤👏
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110gr- 125gr- 130gr- 135gr- 145gr- 147gr- 150gr- 155gr- 165gr- 175-gr- 180gr-185 gr
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Next week it should be out
okay
I'm just spit balling here but maybe try a more traditional chono. It would take a minor pressure off the weapon and the shooter. Just a thought.
The better groups probably had to do with it being more pleasant for you to shoot by suppressing sound and recoil and has nothing to do with its structural characteristics. The 7mm load may have been optimized for that barrel length such that adding the suppressor interfered with the velocity. The same thing happens with a 1911 and a Thompson SG using ww2 era ball ammo. That ammo is maximized for the 1911 but is not powerful enough to gain any extra velocity with the extra barrel length and instead actually runs out of juice as it moves down the extra barrel length, resulting in slower velocities.
Try doing this with a chrono that does not hang off the barrel. One that is a separate unit that measures velocity as the bullet flies through a more open air apparatus (the kind Paul Harrel uses on his videos). Why ? it's the same reason why ww2 Soviet riflemen qualified and always shot with their bayonet fixed to their weapon because the presence of the bayonet altered their point of impact from shooting without the bayonet, and they were often required to do bayonet charges by their commanders.
So I thought there was a vid compareing 308 bullets on steel? Is that pulled?
Your Chrono is the culprit for your groups most likely
Is there a difference between short and fat suppressors over long and skinny?
Depends what they’re being used for
Subsonic 9mm with suppressor hearing safe? How about .45?
Depends on the suppressor and the ammo being used. I always wear hearing protection regardless of what it sounds like
What suppressors were you using?
Having the chrono strapped to the barrel can mess up the barrel whip and create accuracy issues.
I agree, that was probably a big portion of it
You need the new Garmin Xero
Alot of the issue with the groups is the rest your using has no stability looked like it was rocking(left and right not front and back) on every shot
Lmao!!! Tea bagged by a bee!!!
Letting that magneto thing touch the barrel messes with the harmonics and widens your group
I think you are right. Watching the video again, the chronograph was shifting on the 30-06, which probably didn’t help
Not much if you have a hux... The difference isn't actually "back pressure" but dwell time. Traditional baffles keep pressure in barrel longer. Flow through like hux 90ish% reduction still way better than the best sig and about 70% reduction from a trad baffle.
Glad you mentioned that
So... this is subjective as fare as accuracy goes. The difference is not nessasary better or worse because of a suppressor. What you're essential doing is adjusting the barrel harmonics. You'd get similar results with weights or a barrel tunner.
at least in 6.5 creed you seem to lose speed at 26 inches compared to 24. Maybe the same on 7mm.
what I've noticed in shooting elr is that the can doesnt really do all that much in terms of velocity when youre running the same load, but it more so allows you to get a hotter load and still a full clean burn. It's basically a modular barrel length option or it allows you to get more "barrel length" past the point when the friction of the rifling would start to slow your projectile down when you look at it in terms of velocity.
Thanks for the info, that makes sense with the burn rate. I also like that it takes the recoil down considerably on most calibers
@@bananaballistics oh for sure, and concussion too. A proper brake will always work better but it can make spotting your own shots a pain
You can’t shoot for accuracy with a magneto-speed attached to the barrel - it changes the barrel harmonics with every shot!
Today's lesson: Suppressors increase accuracy.
It seemed to increase my accuracy for sure lol
Honestly your group sizes were pretty small so i wouldn't make any conclusive statements. But ammunition costs money so more testing gets expensive.
It adds about 10 fps on 5.56 as well
Glad to hear you have had similar results
I wouldn't call 29fps "substantial. It's like 2%
I’d say if EVERY gun you shoot has a wide group,, it’s NOT the guns lol
Chrono is flopping all over the place
Silencers, also known as suppressors, or “fule filters” (that’s Amazon’s spelling😂)
bro shoots bananas 🍌 way more accurately then bullets 🕳️ 🎯 🕳️ 🕳️
I think he's anticipating the recoil....
man sounds like barry white.
5.56 13.5in barrel and you will see proper fps increase
Based on the fireballs they spit out, I think you are right
30fps at those speeds would not make any difference
My guess with the groups is that the apparatus you're using to measure the speeds is affecting to the barrel harmonics.. and with the suppressor on it affects less because it's not in direct contact with the barrel anymore. BUT that is just my guess....
Its the thing bouncing around on the end of your gun duh
🙂