I'm what you might call a tax stamp enthusiast currently at 5 between silencers and SBR. The tax is a one time 200 for each NFA item and the paperwork is not that much of an issue although the wait for the items is horrible, as they drag their feet for months on end up to a year to approve it and send the stamp.
Ron when I was testing a newly built 6.5 Grendel with a client we tested factory and handloads and we found that using a sound moderator the velocity increased by 50 fps over not using a suppressor/moderator I’ve not noticed it since but I’ve not specifically tested for it
Thanks for not being ugly to us suppressor owners and gas gun lovers. We hunt too. Suppressors absolutely change harmonics. Sometimes just a muzzle device alone but many documents and science behind a suppressor tightening up some groups. My old 1022 shoots dimes now that I put a 3 port brake on it I had laying around in 22 cal. Looks crazy but it shoots and my sandman makes 2 of my rifles tighten up but makes one open up
I live in Scotland and shoot a .243 with a suppressor (we call them moderators). Our government and police actually encourage us here to use one for the reasons you mentioned and it is very easy to get it on your gun license. Mine took 2 weeks all together.
When use a bore snake, or other vexible bore cleaning implement, open your action so you can drop the weight down through the barrel from the chamber. It also helps if you wash your boresnakes out occasionally; not often.
Bore snakes are for in the field cleaning and shotguns. I watched a guy try to destroy his barrel with a brass rod attacking the crown, ramming it at angles. About hreaking the rod. Scoped it before and after. He used a power drill too. Thing looked spotless. Really surprised me. Ss bbl if i believe. I still do the shot cards for reloading. I buy a 100 pack online and they last forever.
Great conversation sir ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge ! I’m with you on reloading data , write it on paper. I even make notes on my targets and save them in a file cabinet !
Faithful French viewer and avid range goer here. You are right in pointing out suppressors are basically unregulated accessories over here, and have been since 2018. They are no longer considered an essential part of a firearm and therefore regarded as innocuous per se, so buying one is basically like buying a scope. Long live your excellent channel.
I bought a 45acp awhile back. It was a relatively hand made firearm. While heavy it shoots real accurate. But with the case came instructions on care: Do Not Clean For 600 rounds when first fired. To properly break in the barrel. I’m old but this 45acp shoots better than my eyes dirty or not.
Love your videos Ron!!!, a quick correction though. Suppressors can and will most definitely increase velocity on your gun. I have been comparing it with my Remington 700 with 22" Mcgowen barrel 8.5 twist 7mm Rem Mag. I get about 50 fps increase with a deadair Sandman L. On my 6.5 creedmoor i get about 20 fps. On the sniper rifles we have at work we routinely get increased velocity. I will say that the longer the barrel the less effective the Suppressor is at changing the velocity. If you shoot a gas gun suppressed you will notice the increased blow back in your face especially if you're a lefty like me which shows that there is most definitely increased pressure which will effect velocity. Love you're videos and my wife even says she likes them because you have such a kind voice lol.
The .260 Remington is simply the .308 Win necked down to 6.5mm and is yet another excellent example of a 'once wildcat' made standard by Remington. Other examples are the .25-06 Rem, the .22-250 and the 7mm-08. It goes to show how versatile the original .30-06 and .308 cases are when neck sizes are changed up or down. Taking the .30-06 case up to .35 calibre gives the .35 Whelen, another excellent although somewhat overlooked cartridge. Consumers are a finicky lot, overly influenced by advertising and hype. But then, manufacturers are in business to sell product. The entire firearms and ammo industries are dependant on ongoing sales of new products. "Bigger, better, faster, harder hitting" are now giving way to, "Further, more accurate, higher BC". It'll be interesting to see what the next wave of hype will involve.
Yes it’s very sad that the 260 is going away. I’ve owned one for years , takin many deer with it . I did buy a 6.5 just because I figured it would go away. But it’s a shame, because it’s a great caliber.
I love your videos your my favorite when it comes to firearms and ammo I've researched all of videos and your website but the RUclips sign behind you is driving me crazy trying to figure out if it has bullet holes in it or what is it's story thanks
Hey Ron really enjoy your content very very educational keep up the good work it's always a pleasure and an interest to watch the different topics You were discussing suppressors They do actually affect the way your projectile performs it reduces the speed of your bullet Quite a bit usually you'll lose 3 to 600' per 2nd dependent on the caliber or cartridge
I can absolutely verify that suppressors can and do affect groups. With the suppressor on my 22lr I have seen groups change drastically. Some do better some do worse. Fact is they do change groups.
The effects on groups is due to changes in the harmonics. Much like a barrel tuner. As far as ballistics it would be velocity which is affected as well
In South Africa we buy supressors/silencer over the counter. No waiting or lisence requirements. Even if you don't have an fire arm license you can walk into any fire arm store and buy any supressor/silencer. If you pay for it you take it💪🏻👌🏻
I looked into getting a 260 Rem but with copper bullets more commonly being insisted on here in the UK the 6.5 CM offers more reloading flexibility for longer bullets in a short action. Seems a shame, but there you go.
Well I've personally measured the velocity changes on 3 different AR's with 6 different types of factory ammo. Suppressers most definitely do increase muzzle velocity. So that is an added benefit of them. When I hear people say all they do is change the point of impact it makes me cringe because they 100% do change the speed of the bullet as well.
The Remington model 8 was the internal magazine fed Semi-auto rifle of it's time, the model 14 was a tube fed pump/ slide action of it's time. The updated model 8 was renamed the model 81 and the updated model 14 was renamed the model 141.
I don't think the 260 is going away. Maybe in factory ammo but reloading components are readily available. I have 3 260s and adding 2 in 260AI. A thoater is cheap and can get far more performance that the Creedmoor. For me i personally dont shoot above 130 gr bullets in a 9 inch twist. I do have 8 inch twists in the AIs. The 105gr blitzking are phenomenal on ground hogs.
I have the same issue with suppressors, I just don't like the way it looks. It's also so heavy on the front end of your rifle. Other than that, they are bloody awesome to use.
I love keeping written records too, but I never take them out, I photo it with my phone and send or print out a copy, if not just straight out copy the written paper…
Why would you want a silencer the muzzle blast confuses the elk and sometimes they’ll just circle giving you a chance to kill all the young cows and large bulls
The 260 "failed" because its SAMMI spec is 1:9 twist. You can't shoot heavier, better performing projectiles in 1:9 twist in 6.5 caliber. Yes you can get a custom barrel, but custom wasn't as popular or as accessible as it is today. People just wanted to buy a rifle off the shelf and go shooting and they couldn't shoot good projectiles with SAMMI spec 260 Rem because of that slower twist rate.
Here in the UK moderators are not mandatory but they are common. In some mainland European countries they are still illegal. I believe France is one of them.
I like to shoot an neighbor asked me to sight in his Rugar AR before an after he mounted new barrel suppressor. At 100 yards bullet reaction to suppressor was 1" to right an 3" high. Neighbor adjusted scope over 1" left an 3" down an we drilled bullseyes. I thought 1" to left or right, but 3" out seemed excessive?
Wire a plain light bulb in your safe, not a big one, maybe 40 watts, if you live in a high humidity area this will keep the humidity low enough to prevent rust, common sense says keep the bulb away from powder and loaded rounds...and anything that will catch fire, no direct contact with anything that will catch fire or melt...
Actually, a silencer normaly improves accuracy as it reduces the ammount of gas "overtaking" the bullet after leaving the nozzle and thereby destabilizing the first flight phase. - The one and only thing that is easier over here in europe is buying supressors.
Once you start using suppressors youll never go back. Youll never buy another rifle without a threaded barrel. To anyone who dreads going thru the paperwork and wait times, just do it. The sooner you get it started the sooner youll have it. I waited for years and years and finally made up my mind to do it and i regret waiting so long. If you go through SilencerShop its very easy.
The model 14 is not an improved version of the model 8. The model 8 is a semi auto rifle, and the model 14 is a pump rifle. They’re completely different.
I’ve reloaded for 59 years and I will not load any straight wall cartridges,,I will just buy what I need and not worry about blowing myself up ,,they are easier to mess up on.
@@66smithra seven and a half grains and you are fine ,,eight grains and you blow the gun up ,,or six grains and you blow the gun up,,,very fine lines between right and bad wrong loading pistol cartridges,,also very close together calibers of bullets in those calibers like . 451,,,then there’s a .452 then there’s a .458 all of which would squeeze into a 44 magnum cartridge,,and it is neither of the above listed calibers,,it is a .429 caliber
Al Capone, Machine Gun Kelly, are among the guys. Don't know why they would just make it illegal for illegal activity, rather than illegal for just having it.
I'm what you might call a tax stamp enthusiast currently at 5 between silencers and SBR. The tax is a one time 200 for each NFA item and the paperwork is not that much of an issue although the wait for the items is horrible, as they drag their feet for months on end up to a year to approve it and send the stamp.
Ron when I was testing a newly built 6.5 Grendel with a client we tested factory and handloads and we found that using a sound moderator the velocity increased by 50 fps over not using a suppressor/moderator
I’ve not noticed it since but I’ve not specifically tested for it
Talks about saying "458 Bushmaster", then proceeds to do it again @3:44 followed seconds later with the same gaff! You're the best at making us laugh!
You said 458 bushmaster again 😂. It’s okay Mr.Ron
🤣😃 thats what happens when Ron has forgotten more than most of us will ever know.
Bow Howdy, I did, didn't I! Thanks for cutting me some slack.
Yeah I say he’s earned the right to miss a word once in a while.
🤣OMG, yeah like 2 more times after. Ron, we love your foibles.
Not just 1 more time, but twice!
Thanks for not being ugly to us suppressor owners and gas gun lovers. We hunt too.
Suppressors absolutely change harmonics. Sometimes just a muzzle device alone but many documents and science behind a suppressor tightening up some groups. My old 1022 shoots dimes now that I put a 3 port brake on it I had laying around in 22 cal.
Looks crazy but it shoots and my sandman makes 2 of my rifles tighten up but makes one open up
Imagine my surprise to hear a comment of mine being read aloud by a legend. Thanks, Ron!
I live in Scotland and shoot a .243 with a suppressor (we call them moderators). Our government and police actually encourage us here to use one for the reasons you mentioned and it is very easy to get it on your gun license. Mine took 2 weeks all together.
Exactly. They are polite to neighbors and animals and protective to shooter and bystander hearing, saving in medical hearing aids later.
Very nice Ron. Always like listening to your comments. My thanks to you 👍👍
When use a bore snake, or other vexible bore cleaning implement, open your action so you can drop the weight down through the barrel from the chamber.
It also helps if you wash your boresnakes out occasionally; not often.
I look forward to your weekly videos Ron! Well done sir.
Bore snakes are for in the field cleaning and shotguns.
I watched a guy try to destroy his barrel with a brass rod attacking the crown, ramming it at angles. About hreaking the rod. Scoped it before and after. He used a power drill too.
Thing looked spotless. Really surprised me. Ss bbl if i believe.
I still do the shot cards for reloading. I buy a 100 pack online and they last forever.
Great conversation sir ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge ! I’m with you on reloading data , write it on paper. I even make notes on my targets and save them in a file cabinet !
Faithful French viewer and avid range goer here. You are right in pointing out suppressors are basically unregulated accessories over here, and have been since 2018. They are no longer considered an essential part of a firearm and therefore regarded as innocuous per se, so buying one is basically like buying a scope. Long live your excellent channel.
Thanks for the details, Lavigerie. My bride and I are looking into a France Reeve's pheasant hunt in Normandy. Hope we can pull it off.
I bought a 45acp awhile back. It was a relatively hand made firearm. While heavy it shoots real accurate. But with the case came instructions on care: Do Not Clean For 600 rounds when first fired. To properly break in the barrel. I’m old but this 45acp shoots better than my eyes dirty or not.
Love your videos Ron!!!, a quick correction though. Suppressors can and will most definitely increase velocity on your gun. I have been comparing it with my Remington 700 with 22" Mcgowen barrel 8.5 twist 7mm Rem Mag. I get about 50 fps increase with a deadair Sandman L. On my 6.5 creedmoor i get about 20 fps. On the sniper rifles we have at work we routinely get increased velocity. I will say that the longer the barrel the less effective the Suppressor is at changing the velocity. If you shoot a gas gun suppressed you will notice the increased blow back in your face especially if you're a lefty like me which shows that there is most definitely increased pressure which will effect velocity. Love you're videos and my wife even says she likes them because you have such a kind voice lol.
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The .260 Remington is simply the .308 Win necked down to 6.5mm and is yet another excellent example of a 'once wildcat' made standard by Remington. Other examples are the .25-06 Rem, the .22-250 and the 7mm-08. It goes to show how versatile the original .30-06 and .308 cases are when neck sizes are changed up or down. Taking the .30-06 case up to .35 calibre gives the .35 Whelen, another excellent although somewhat overlooked cartridge.
Consumers are a finicky lot, overly influenced by advertising and hype. But then, manufacturers are in business to sell product. The entire firearms and ammo industries are dependant on ongoing sales of new products. "Bigger, better, faster, harder hitting" are now giving way to, "Further, more accurate, higher BC". It'll be interesting to see what the next wave of hype will involve.
🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝
Suppressors can in fact add muzzle velocity, though short ones, and some small ones can slow it down slightly
All my moderators (.243/.308/.303) add muzzle velocity across a variety of loadings, although its a small amount - 30-50fps
Yes it’s very sad that the 260 is going away. I’ve owned one for years , takin many deer with it . I did buy a 6.5 just because I figured it would go away. But it’s a shame, because it’s a great caliber.
I wouldn't say a 260 is going away. I have 3 of them and adding 2 in 260AI. I have had no problem acquiring brass both large and small primer ones.
I love your videos your my favorite when it comes to firearms and ammo I've researched all of videos and your website but the RUclips sign behind you is driving me crazy trying to figure out if it has bullet holes in it or what is it's story thanks
Hey Ron really enjoy your content very very educational keep up the good work it's always a pleasure and an interest to watch the different topics You were discussing suppressors They do actually affect the way your projectile performs it reduces the speed of your bullet Quite a bit usually you'll lose 3 to 600' per 2nd dependent on the caliber or cartridge
Logarithmic scale for dB's is the word you were looking for ? They are the inverses of exponentials.
Decibels are log scales vs. linear which has smaller magnitude increments.
The short barrel craze sure contribute to muzzle blast & hearing loss .
I can absolutely verify that suppressors can and do affect groups. With the suppressor on my 22lr I have seen groups change drastically. Some do better some do worse. Fact is they do change groups.
The effects on groups is due to changes in the harmonics. Much like a barrel tuner. As far as ballistics it would be velocity which is affected as well
I believe the railroad date you were referring to was 1869. Great video, thanks for posting!
In South Africa we buy supressors/silencer over the counter. No waiting or lisence requirements. Even if you don't have an fire arm license you can walk into any fire arm store and buy any supressor/silencer. If you pay for it you take it💪🏻👌🏻
Does annealing brass that might be on its last reload make it last longer? Thanks for the great content.
Great info Ron
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I looked into getting a 260 Rem but with copper bullets more commonly being insisted on here in the UK the 6.5 CM offers more reloading flexibility for longer bullets in a short action. Seems a shame, but there you go.
Well I've personally measured the velocity changes on 3 different AR's with 6 different types of factory ammo. Suppressers most definitely do increase muzzle velocity. So that is an added benefit of them. When I hear people say all they do is change the point of impact it makes me cringe because they 100% do change the speed of the bullet as well.
The Remington model 8 was the internal magazine fed Semi-auto rifle of it's time, the model 14 was a tube fed pump/ slide action of it's time. The updated model 8 was renamed the model 81 and the updated model 14 was renamed the model 141.
The updated 14 was the model 14 1/2.
I don't think the 260 is going away. Maybe in factory ammo but reloading components are readily available. I have 3 260s and adding 2 in 260AI. A thoater is cheap and can get far more performance that the Creedmoor. For me i personally dont shoot above 130 gr bullets in a 9 inch twist. I do have 8 inch twists in the AIs. The 105gr blitzking are phenomenal on ground hogs.
Don, you are more pragmatic and sensible than cool. More power to you!
New cartridge idea 458 Bushcom or 450 SOmaster lol
A logarithmic scale used to measure decibels rather than linear, increased by 10
When checking a zero right before deer season I never clean a rifle to after I'm done hunting with it then I clean it thoroughly before storing it
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I have the same issue with suppressors, I just don't like the way it looks. It's also so heavy on the front end of your rifle.
Other than that, they are bloody awesome to use.
It does alter harmonics, you can tune for it
I love keeping written records too, but I never take them out, I photo it with my phone and send or print out a copy, if not just straight out copy the written paper…
I have only chronographed 2 rifles with and without suppressors and found that both showed a little increase in velocity. Might be my experience only.
Yes paper records are great but a spreadsheet is best. Then keep it on a memory stick with a backup to transfer it between any computer.
Better yet the cloud and then there’s no need for a memory stick that can fail or get lost.
Suppressors do add a little velocity to a rifle. Clint at Classic Firearms has a video about that
Why would you want a silencer the muzzle blast confuses the elk and sometimes they’ll just circle giving you a chance to kill all the young cows and large bulls
The 260 "failed" because its SAMMI spec is 1:9 twist. You can't shoot heavier, better performing projectiles in 1:9 twist in 6.5 caliber. Yes you can get a custom barrel, but custom wasn't as popular or as accessible as it is today. People just wanted to buy a rifle off the shelf and go shooting and they couldn't shoot good projectiles with SAMMI spec 260 Rem because of that slower twist rate.
It's a one time payment for the tax stamp, but there's alot of weird rules about transporting NFA items across state lines
Suppressors are logarithmic in the sound reduction.
Here in the UK moderators are not mandatory but they are common. In some mainland European countries they are still illegal. I believe France is one of them.
I live in Michigan but I do a lot of shooting in Canada you need a compressor at the gun range in Canada
They illegal in canada
Google Sheets allows you to access your load data, at any time anywhere on any device.
I like to shoot an neighbor asked me to sight in his Rugar AR before an after he mounted new barrel suppressor. At 100 yards bullet reaction to suppressor was 1" to right an 3" high. Neighbor adjusted scope over 1" left an 3" down an we drilled bullseyes. I thought 1" to left or right, but 3" out seemed excessive?
No the added weight on the end of the barrel changes it's harmonics and the bullet POI.
I write the moa and velocity in the “comments” or “notes” on the index cards/stickers
Wire a plain light bulb in your safe, not a big one, maybe 40 watts, if you live in a high humidity area this will keep the humidity low enough to prevent rust, common sense says keep the bulb away from powder and loaded rounds...and anything that will catch fire, no direct contact with anything that will catch fire or melt...
Jhon Browning also invented the early semi auto pistols as we know them today with fn and colt
Actually, a silencer normaly improves accuracy as it reduces the ammount of gas "overtaking" the bullet after leaving the nozzle and thereby destabilizing the first flight phase. - The one and only thing that is easier over here in europe is buying supressors.
Decibel scale is logarithmic..... exponential.....I believe the silly federal moderator tax is a one-off...
Lever guns are much easier to clean if you just take the receiver apart to get to the breach
Once you start using suppressors youll never go back. Youll never buy another rifle without a threaded barrel. To anyone who dreads going thru the paperwork and wait times, just do it. The sooner you get it started the sooner youll have it. I waited for years and years and finally made up my mind to do it and i regret waiting so long. If you go through SilencerShop its very easy.
Or the government can stop infringing on our rights and end the NFA, then you could just buy them over the counter with your ammo.
I own 2 .260s ammo is harsh to find my model 7 shoots factory ammo and my savage shoot hand loads that a family Freind reloads for me
The model 14 was not an upgrade to the model 8. Model 14 and then 14 1/2 were the pump guns.
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Exponential
Decibels are a log base 10 scale or logarithm.
Logarithm! That's the word I was scrambling for. Where were you when I needed you, William? Thank you sir.
It's a 1 time tax on each suppressor, Mr. Ron.
I’ve never seen anyone shoot PRS with a suppressor. That should tell you something.
🤔
Did you shoot your RUclips play button plaque?? Looks like it lol
Sure did. In honor of our 200,000 subscribers. 30-cal. hole for the 300,000 coming soon!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Bada$$
@@RonSpomerOutdoors That 30 caliber hole should be done with 30-30 or 30-06 because they are the early cartridges that still exist today.
Google Sheets, keep track of your load data
Florida is a nightmare for rust
How do you talk about John Browning and not talk about the 1911 ?
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No laws at all wrt to silencers in South Africa. Most farmers prefer that hunters use silencers so that their game doesn't get spooked so much.
Logarithmic scale.
Logirythmic
The model 14 is not an improved version of the model 8. The model 8 is a semi auto rifle, and the model 14 is a pump rifle. They’re completely different.
We are lucky in the UK as moderators are cheap and easy to get and may soon be removed from licensing
I’ve reloaded for 59 years and I will not load any straight wall cartridges,,I will just buy what I need and not worry about blowing myself up ,,they are easier to mess up on.
How are they easier to mess up on?
@@66smithra seven and a half grains and you are fine ,,eight grains and you blow the gun up ,,or six grains and you blow the gun up,,,very fine lines between right and bad wrong loading pistol cartridges,,also very close together calibers of bullets in those calibers like . 451,,,then there’s a .452 then there’s a .458 all of which would squeeze into a 44 magnum cartridge,,and it is neither of the above listed calibers,,it is a .429 caliber
@@bobbygreen2291 huh?
@@66smithra even 450 bushmaster has very close tolerances you have to be exactly right or you are exactly wrong
@@bobbygreen2291 the 450 bushmaster is no different to load than any other center fire cartridge.
Clean your barrel after each use with a cleaning kit and your rifle barrel will last forever
Instead of taking your original sheet to show someone. Make a copy of it and put the original back in the binder. Lol
Al Capone, Machine Gun Kelly, are among the guys. Don't know why they would just make it illegal for illegal activity, rather than illegal for just having it.
Model 14 not a semi auto at all. It’s a pump rifle.
Did your shoot your RUclips silver plaque ? 😂
We can do anything in America it will pay for it with enough money
Our government
If you are willing to pay money and fill out paperwork you can have one,seems like bull shit to me.