Room Air Requirements for Installing Rheem® ProTerra™ Hybrid Electric Heat Pump Water Heaters
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- This how-to video discusses how heat pump water heaters need a certain amount of air to operate most efficiently. We’ll explain not only why that is, but we’ll also show the minimum amount of air needed and how to calculate it. We’ll also discuss some options if the room the water heater is located in isn’t big enough to provide that minimum amount of room air.
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I don't know if this is accepted practice but I though it was a fun idea.
I ducted the intake to my bathrooms, since they share a wall and the DWH is in the basement directly below both, it was pretty easy. So now the DWH draws warm moist air from both bathrooms, cools and dehumidifies it, and then releases it into the basement right next to the primary heat source which is a wood stove.
Next, I'm thinking of ducting the exhaust air back up to the living room for better air conditioning performance in the summer, maybe use some dampers to direct it seasonally as necessary.
Thus far, I have been very happy with my Rheem ProTerra. It's summer time and we currently have inlaws and cousins in town and with 8-12 people, it performs without any issues. I do have a wastewater heat reclaimer, so that does help with total hot water volume.
Cons: The duct adapters are ridiculously expensive for what you get, which is a simple plastic duct adapter. Fortunately, I got the water heater about half off due to state level instant rebates.
We're glad that you're very happy with your Rheem ProTerra Hybrid Electric Heat Pump Water Heater. The EcoNet app has a lot of features. Here are some blog posts that highlight some of those features: www.rheem.com/water-heating/articles/tag/econet/. You can download the app here: www.rheem.com/econet/.
This heater seems better suited for mild/hot climate homes where using internal heat in the building is desirable. It would be ok in summer time to use excess heat in a household but the water heater is usually in the lower part of the house where it is cooler already. So for this system to be ideal, it would need to be on the warmest floor of the house and pulling heat from the air when you want to COOL the house. It would be a negative when you want to HEAT the house unless it has an outside heat pump to draw energy. Otherwise, it is a pretty interesting idea and could work well in places that need more cooling of the internal air.
I have the 80 gal model. I wanted to oversize for my wife and I because heat pump is much slower to recover so I made up in volume. It does sip electricity and runs for hours. I would only use this if you live in the south. We built a new home and I put a 8 in vent hole in the side of the house to vent in the winter. The good part for us, it keeps moisture low in our finished basement. We have a small storage area with garage door to store the golf cart, we just leave the interior door open most of the time to have additional flow. Yes it can be a bit noisy. So if you dont have a good application for all the recommended requirements, you will not be happy. For those in the south, its free air conditioning and is really cool. What I cant believe is the current model in this video does not have the collars like mine to add duct work. Wow...who was the genius that wanted to save the company a dollar?
IDEA: Have a "Summertime Mode" where it vents to and from the interior space, and a "Wintertime mode", where the cold air vents to and from the outside space. (use traditional water heater exhaust vents, and add mechanical baffles) In the winter, take air from outside the envelope to grab the heat from, otherwise, this unit would "steal heat from the house/garage to put into the tank", thus being parasitic on your main house/garage heat...
True but if you have a wood stove in your basement your in luck. You Sir are a critical thinker.
@@MrSprintcat Same thing with a refrigerator... In the summertime, if it could vent the excess heat outside, and wintertime waste the heat to the interior space, then that would be more efficient than having to re A/C the heat that the Fridge puts out in the summer...
How did you mount the hanger for the cold water inlet to the side of the heater? Is it safe to just drill in with some short self tapping screws?
When my brick foundation was replace by concrete I had a small utility basement created for the water heater and furnace. I recently went all electric and added a 65 gallon Rheem. It was installed in the utility basement which is theoretically too small. There was already a louver between the room and the crawl space so that the former gas appliances could get air. I had a small air extraction fan installed opposite the louver and facing the water heater exhaust. It exhausts out a vent and works great. The room gets a bit cold and dry in Bay Area winters, but the incoming air isn't that cold and is certainly humid. I also added solar and this year my PG&E bill was about $35 negative. I still have a bit of credit on my bill. Happy camper here. Oh, and the room will have my batteries should I decide to install them.
I bought one of these in November. It just went bad. Your service center said so. They said it will be replaced per the terms of the warranty. But outside of the terms of the warranty, you're requiring it to be returned to the retailer, Home Depot. Home Depot does not stock the 65-gallon water heater and you won't send them one without a PO and they won't order one unless I buy another and then get reimbursed. So you want me to spend another $2000 to get you to honor the terms of your warranty on a 7-month-old unit!?! There are no written provisions for when and how I'll be reimbursed. Considering you're not honoring the verbiage in your own warranty, how can I trust the reimbursement won't be in credit towards future purchases? I'm on day 2 of trying to work my way through the double hells of your call centers and Home Depots. Anyone reading this take heed. Rheem is trying to change the terms of their written warranty and Home Depot is not standing by the products they sell.
Hi Thomas, I reached out to our warranty department on your behalf, and I understand they are currently assisting you with your concern and will be in contact soon with a resolution.
out of curiosity when did you buy it? Ours was warranty replaced pretty easily
Did they step up and honor the warranty? I'm almost buying this @ $1700/pop and this kinda of treatment is a turn off
@@vroor32 the local commercial distributor stepped in and took over. Home depot was complete assholes and Rheem doesn't have a good system with them.. The unit saves a ton of money but I'm not sure I'd get another Rheem.
We have this water heater in our unit and it makes an excessive amount of noise. A very annoying high pitched noise. We have gotten it replaced and this new unit still makes the same noise.
I'm looking at the same issue. I believe. They are willing to replace it, but I fear the new unit will do the same thing.
from what i see the hybrid's are not for every home at least in current form. but in fl and many southern states wh are in garages , and useally hot and humid 95% of time so cooling garage is a bonus and most garages have plenty of air exchanges inlike what government rules are making homes like thermos bottles without air exchanges naturally
What is the lower temp limit for this heat pump to work efficiently? My garage is not conditioned space so in the winter it can get a bit cold there. In the summer it should be perfect though.
The ambient operating range for this unit is 37 F to 145 F. Outside of this range, the unit doesn't not operate efficiently.
What is the approximat temperature of the exhaust air? Let's say the unit takes in air that's 70°F. What does is cool down to on the exhaust side? 65°, 60°, 55°?
These units work best the higher the temperature is above 40 degrees. Hope this answers your question.
Can this unit be installed outside in side of a Metal inclosure ? ( like the ones that the gas tank heaters are installed ?
My current water heater is in the large stand up crawl space. It gets to a low of 28-34 degrees in the winter . I assume a heat pump wager heater would not be the best option.
What temperature can you expect the outlet air to be? Would you expect a few degrees cooler than the ambient temp of the room, or is it significantly cooler, like tens of degrees?
Thank you for the video. Will this work with a hydronic heating system. Right now I have a hyrdonic water heater but would love to use this if possible.
As an HVAC tech I want to say yes it will work but check the literature and see what the max allowable temperatures are for this tank and how efficient it is at higher temps. In hydronic heat you would probably want temps around 140-160 or higher in colder temps.
Unfortunately, these water heaters would not recover quick enough, or produce enough hot water, to keep up with a hydronic heating system. However, please consult your nearest Rheem representative, as we have a solution for every hot water application. Please contact our Technical Support Team at 800-432-8373 for more details.
Helpful, yes.
I am still confused what is best practice for locating my heat pump water heater. I was going to place it in the garage. The garage meets the 700 cubic ft requirements. The house's location is Eureka, CA so we have a range of average of 46-64 degrees but rarely below 33 degrees. In other words not extreme. If the heat pump is drawing heat from this space and adding cold air would I be dropping the temp in this space out of the range of efficiency? (Making a cold garage colder.) The second option is to enclose it in a closet in the garage and vent it to the outside. Probably more efficient but cost more to build a closet and provide a door and flashing venting to the outside. Question: Would this work efficiently just in the garage or is it recommended to have it in a closet that is vented to the outside? Thanks
If I bought the Rheem model XE40T10HS45U0 could I add the leak detector and auto shut-off valve later?
Anyone have idea on what installation cost is, going from gas water heater to this rheem?
Anyone have any experience with the 120v plug-ins? One of the local Rheem plumbing reps is trying to convince me it’s not a good option vs 240v, but the only argument against is the slow recovery time. Anything else i should be aware of? Thanks!
The 120v shared circuit 50 and 65 gallon first hour rating is 55 gallons? Typo on rheem website?
The first hour rating is correct for both products. If you have any additional questions please call Technical Support at 866-279-4566 between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. CST and one of our experienced analysts will be happy to assist you.
What is the room air requirements for the ProTerra®Plug-In Heat Pump Water Heater
(120V Dedicated Circuit)? Can I install outside? Should I install in a locker and set on a vibration pad? Thank you! - Writing in from the San Francisco Bay Area.
The 120 Volt Dedicated Circuit model requires 1,200 ft³ of air. Outdoor installation is not allowed. Vibration isolation would be recommended if excessive vibration is anticipated. Rheem sells vibration kits, as well as seismic isolation kits that might be required in your area.
My basement is double that but it's dirt floor will the dirt bother it? Or clog filters
Please contact our Technical Support Team at 800-432-8373 for more details.
What kind of sediment filter are you using in this setup? I like this setup and I cannot find a vertical in-line one like this,.
The clear graduated tube on the cold water line measures the water pressure. It was included for demonstration purposes during our training. For preventative maintenance, we recommend draining a few quarts of water monthly from the tank to reduce sediment. Please refer to the use and care manual for details.
What about adding a filter so garage dust does not get into the unit?
Thank you for your question. There is a removeable, reusable air filter in the top of the unit. It can be washed and put back into service. If it is ignored, an alert will remind the homeowner to clean the filter.
Do you need a expansion thank for 80 psi or less?
Yes. Water expands when it is heated. Thermal Expansion Tanks absorb this extra volume of water until a hot water faucet is opened and "extra" water is put back into the system.
*They removed the ducting adapters* and replaced the fan with a noisy
unit on the current generation, 5th gen. I guess they figured they
could sell them separately so why include them? Disappointing.
Yeah, and they cost $140 each. EACH!
Rheem hybrid water heaters are as loud as a loud hot water heater. Neither Rheem nor Home Depot warned us about the excessive noise. I'm going to try to return the unit on Monday. If they don't take it back, it is class action lawsuit time.
I have a crazy idea .... Can I duct my air dryer vent hose into this water heater? I plan to build inline lint filters into the duct pipes .... 🤔
We don't recommend connecting hybrid electric heat pump ducting into other external duct work. If you need more information about this, please contact our Technical Support Team at 800-432-8373. We hope this helps!
Doubt it. However, I had an idea of building a heat exchanger around my dryer duct. Run a 4" metal duct in the middle with the dryer exhaust, then encase that in a 6" duct and pull air off of that. However, with a water heater you're going to have very limited utility, as rarely are they going to run at the same time.
How loud is it? I use my basement a lot. Someone said the compressor is loud and would not be appropriate next to a family room.
Thank you for this question. The unit is about as loud as a box fan when the heat pump is running.
Delton 22 I would say it’s the loudest box fan you ever heard. Having said that, they are scheduled to replace the heat pump fan tomorrow. I’ll try to let you know if it quiets the system down. Rheem knows this is an issue and has chosen to ship, the units anyway.
@@morrisassociatesllc Hi, did they fix the problem? I read most negative comments are about noise
@@Paata02 yes they did. I can’t hear the unit at all on the main floor.
It's basically a small/medium window air conditioner, except the rejected heat goes into the water rather than outside.
And it's about as loud as one. Probably a little less because it's not working so hard to produce cold air.
I thought I was trying to heat my house why would I want to discharge a bunch of cold air out of your unit into my house duh
I just had a 2021 80 gal Pro Terra heat pump water heater installed in my basement and we can here it in every room in the house. It’s loud. I’ve spent the last 2 days on hold trying to get in touch with Rheem’s hybrid water heater customer service. Still have yet to talk to anyone or get of my emails returned.. Terrible customer service!!
I’m sorry you’re having trouble getting through. Our call volume is high and email response is slower than normal due to call volume. To expedite your issue, please email your serial number and contact information to social@rheemconnections.com and someone will reach out to you.
This had no info on how to hook up. Only requirements to get one!
I see it's not recommended to locate a hybrid heat pump water heater outdoors due to concerns about low temperatures. However, I don't have an indoor space that would work for it, and our old gas tank water heater is outside in one of those thin metal enclosure cabinets. Also I live in Southern California about 3 miles from the ocean. Temperature highs max in the low 80's in the summer, lows min in the mid 40's at night in the winter. Could I get away with installing the hybrid heat pump water heater outdoors, perhaps in a similar thin metal cabinet but with louvered vents to allow air exchange while keeping the rain off? Would locating it outdoors impact the warranty? Thanks!
Hello, thank you for your inquiry. Although a ProTerra Hybrid Electric Heat Pump Water Heater can fit into most standard outdoor water heater enclosures, proper ventilation is needed for the heat pump to function optimally. If you would like to use an outdoor enclosure, here are the requirements: Enclosure door must be louvered with an air gap under door equal to 18 inches squared (0.75” clearance). Louver must be located the same height on door as the air exhaust on heater. Heater air exhaust must be positioned towards louver within one foot of door. Here is the spec sheet: rmc-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/media/uploads/iat/sites/36/2020/04/HP-350-5-RHEEM-GenV-hybrid_0403.pdf.
You could easily keep it outside. Maybe even duct the air out and back in for free air conditioning.
A heat pump, as per HVACR, must have a reversing valve, which these units don't have.
One of the byproducts of it the noise and vibration. I had one installed on the fifth of May and as soon as it was turned on, I said to the installer it's noisy and he said it will quite down and it didn't. When it's running you can hear a ringing noise coming from the compressor and a hum from the blower and the vibration from the compressor resonates through the walls on that side of the house in my front office and back bedroom. They say it's normal to have 65 dbs but how come I can hear it in other parts of the house. If this were in the house it wouldn't be acceptable and its very irritating when I'm in the garage working or on the treadmill. I worked as an appliance tech for 30 years and changed a lot of compressors and this is not acceptable and cannot recommend this to people especially if it's in the house it would be very irritating after running a while. The tech is supposed to come out and move it away from the wall because the back screw that holds the cover on top is not accessible if you had to remove it to be serviced and to see if the vibration can be stopped through the house. Refrigerators and window airs aren't this noisy why is this unit? It's not right This is a generation 5 and I hear the 4s weren't as bad and you can't find one, so buyer beware. I talked to the company who installed it and said Rheem isn't doing anything about it and that's a bad sign of a bad company.
I had the same issue. In my case, the ringing came from the outlet grille. If you hold your hand on it, you can stop the ringing and the fan and compressor are much less obtrusive. So I used some magnets that changed the resonant frequency and the ringing went away. You could also cut the center piece out.
It's a poor design that apparently nobody noticed in testing. But it's not hard to fix.
Too much piping. There should only be 2 pipes on the top of the tank and one going down the side for pressure relief. Also my tank is in a 2 foot by 2 foot closet that has extra insulation. This is a poor design. Probably an engineer designed this monster. 73
never buy rheam they will tram you
Rheem is made in Mexico, pass..😂
Everything is made everywhere. "American" cars are made in Mexico and Canada. "Japanese" cars are made in the US. 90% of the plastic junk you own is made in China, South Korea, or Taiwan. Your clothes are made in Bangladesh, Vietnam, or China.
Unless you can provide specific issues to discuss, it's not a point for or against.
We're not talking about the items you mentioned Solomon, I know it might be difficult and the internet at your mom's house might be slow, but try to keep up. Rheem is junk do your due diligence before you spout off about items that have no bearing to this video.
@@mtradz1 So not racist then?
@@wiredforstereo Solomon you truly are about as smart as a bag of rocks you should quit while you're behind 😂
I'll say one thing. Rheem really did a disservice by downgrading the control panel from the Gen 4 to the Gen 5. The old blue touchscreen was so much better. You could see the temps in .1 degree increments in both the upper and lower tanks, service info and alerts all within a few taps. Now it's a crap screen that shows nothing and an app that hasn't been updated in over a year with a water availability pictograph that is always completely full or on red after a single shower lol.
Buyer beware! 73
I was hoping to learn what the optional ambient air temp needs to be. My basement gets no colder than 63F in the dead of winter. Wil an HP water heater functions efficiently in that environment.
i'll install it in the dinning room then, the wife will love it
I’m always learning…. Thanks
We installed one of these things on 10/14/22. Rheem hybrid heat pump water heaters are way, way too loud! Buyer beware. We can hear the noise from this thing even from outside the house. Don't install one of these things unless you are installing it in the basement, or you are going to install it in your garage because you want to torture the next door neighbor.
Have a two story home in Arizona. Family of 4 not entirely sure if I should get 50 gal, 65 gal or 80 gal. Any suggestions
We would recommend consulting with a local plumbing professional to help choose the best Rheem Water Heater for your family
You've said in an earlier comment that the unit doesn't operate efficiently in less than 37F ambient, but is there danger to the unit or will it just use more electricity because of lower efficiency? My garage was in the mid 20's for a week this winter. The unit will be in a smallish room in the garage with an open door, so greater than 700 cf. I could install a door to close only during cold weather and keep the light on to increase the ambient, but then the volume of the room would be less than 700 cf; maybe 400 to 600 cf. I'm thinking the 700 cf min is to prevent overheating, so less than that during extreme cold periods wouldn't be a problem.
If the ambient air temperature goes out of this range, the unit will automatically revert to the traditional "Electric Only" mode until the ambient temperature falls back into range. The minimum room air of 700 ft³ must be maintained. When the unit senses ambient air temperature below 37 degrees F, it automatically switches to Electric Only mode.
My current water heater is in the attic. Can this water heater be installed in the attic? The room space is big. Not sure if the heat/cold in the attic can degrade the functionality. Can you please confirm?
The minimum air requirement is 700 ft³. The operating temperature range is 37°F to 145°F. If the ambient air temperature goes out of this range, the unit will automatically revert to the traditional "Electric Only" mode until the ambient temperature falls back into range.
Plan to install a 65 gallon unit in the corner of a 20 ft x 22 ft x 9 ft (ceiling) 2-car garage; see any issue?
As long as there is more than 700 cubic feet of free ambient air to work with, the ProTerra unit is a good option.
@@rheemwaterheatertraining how cold can it be in the garage?
Are refrigerators and air conditioners considered to be heat pumps?
They both pump heat.
At a basic level, yes. They use a refrigerant to move heat from one location to another.
So putting this inside the apt isn't ideal since the air will be cooler than in a typical garage setting
So we can further assist you, please contact our Technical Support Team at 800-432-8373.
The ultimate heat supply will be provided by the HVAC system. This thing runs about 9,000 BTU of cooling while it's running, so it's like having a small window air conditioner. It's great for in the summer. In winter you may introduce some comfort issues, but you can fix these by ducting the cool exhaust somewhere where it is less objectionable. The other option is to run it in resistance only mode in the winter, if you are having problems. It's a simple button push. The downside is that you're operating like a regular electric water heater at that point, which costs much more. But like I said, in the summer, you're basically getting free air conditioning, or free hot water, one of the two.
@@wiredforstereo I didn't know you can switch modes, thanks!
I have plenty of basement room around my Rheem Heat Pump hot water heater, but plan to discharge the cold air into the cold air return of my home's heat pump air handler which is situated next to the HPHW. Letting the cool air to discharge directly into the basement makes it too cool in the winter. We live in Georgia so we use our home heat pump to keep our house warm almost exclusively. It is not a problem if a little cold air is blown into the HVAC system as it will be distributed throughout the house. Do you foresee any issues as I personally think it is a great idea.
We don't recommend connecting hybrid electric heat pump ducting into other external duct work. If you need more information about this, please contact our Technical Support Team at 800-432-8373. We hope this helps!
It seems like a good idea, but you could cause condensation issues if the water heater runs when the HVAC system is off.
I might recommend ducting the cool exhaust to very near where one of your HVAC returns is so the air can be recycled indirectly.
My intake is ducted from the bathrooms so the water heater is very often drawing in warm moist air from there, which means the exhaust is not quite as cool, but also the water heater is near the wood stove, so it's the perfect place for a cool draft. Think creatively, you may find a solution that works well. I find the free air conditioning in the summer and dehumidification is well worth dealing with a draft in the winter. It can usually easily be directed somewhere where it isn't a nuisance.
@@wiredforstereo The HVAC has condensation coils, collection, and drainage system installed. Works great in our humid GA summers and even better in the winter when I am heating with my wood furnace.
@@cowdiologist2759 That doesn't address what I said. Your HVAC has a condensate drainage system under the evaporator coil, not in the ducting where this cold air will go.
@@wiredforstereo I am running the vent into the HVAC system right at the the infeed side of the evaporator unit. Have not had any condensate issues. Working great. Thanks for your insights.
Taking the heat out of the house to heat water is dumb for most places in winter. If you are in the tropics they are very efficient and supplement your AC.