Rheem Hybrid Heat-Pump Water Heater, Thoughts after the First Month
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Now that I've been using this Rheem water heater for a full month, here are my thoughts and opinions. I've replaced my 6-gallon off-grid electric water heater with a new 50-gallon hybrid (heat pump) water heater. This new water heater will run fully off-grid and am hoping will help significantly reduce my electrical consumption.
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I installed a hybrid water heater in my basement 13 years ago. I am a commercial hvac tech. I used to use approx. 200 gallons of oil to heat my water and run a dehumidifier in the basement. I use my hybrid water heater in the heat pump mode only. Not only does it dehumidify my basement it gives me domestic hot water for four people for approximately $25 a month. Remember that a heat pump gives you $3 dollars worth of heat for every $dollar spent when the ambient temp is above 60 degrees. I also heat and cool my house with ductless splits. I haven’t run my oil boiler in three years.
Are you in the carolinas type of latitude where you don't have to do much heating? Heat pump water heaters are great when the heat in the air is free ( because it's hot outside here in Florida 9-10 months out of the year, and our water heaters are in the garage ), but if you are having to heat your home to then pump that heat into the water, that isn't a good deal. In that case, it might only cost you $25 a month to pump the heat into the water, but your furnace might have had to burn $15 of gas to make that heat for a total of $40. A gas water heater would only have burned the $15 worth of gas.
I installed the 80 gal version of this same water heater 6 months ago. It's working flawlessly in our basement pantry area and keeps the area at about 60 degrees. I special ordered the 80 gal 15 amp unit specifically to use on our off grid Solar system for emergency or long term power outages. It replaced 12 year old unit that used 78% more electricity than the hybrid unit. We're operating the new water heater in the Heat Pump mode only. With a family of 4 we have never ran out of hot water. It only draws 360 watts in heat pump mode and has lowered our Electric bill by 35%. I'm still in the process of installing the new solar system which is only a 6 KW system with a 4kw solar array and about 9 kw Battery storage. I expect to lower my power bill another 30% with the solar system. My average monthly use is about 3.2 kw per month for this amazing hot water heater. Our initial investment was $2,000 dollars. With sale pricing and rebates our end cost was $900. Payback is about 16 months. This is a great choice for a cost effective high efficiency hybrid water heater. We can't even hear this unit run with our installation. It's under our utility room and is in a insulated pantry in the basement. I will probably install ductwork to the utility room for warmer air intake. The cold air exhaust into the pantry is perfect for our setup. It's still l preserving our winter squash from last years garden. The Bluetooth app is a great addition to this unit and I check it's performance regularly. It removes the humidity from our basement and I have yet to run my dehumidifier since the install.
I'm extremely impressed with this amazing hot water heater. With a 10 year warranty and it's low cost operating expenses, I highly recommend everyone should be using these units. Just hoping it will last at least 8 to 10 years.
It's was nice to see someone else who is using this unit and posting it on RUclips. Great video!
Thanks for sharing!
How were you able to order the 15a version? I looked everywhere but no one seems to have them
Which model exactly do you have? What is the noise level?
@@ToddS162 I have the 80 gal 15 Amp model. I think only runs on heat pump mode which operates at about 360 watts. The recovery time is slower but our family of 4 never runs out of hot water. Operates for about 40 cents a day. Lowered our electric bill by 38% the first year of operation. I highly recommend this unit, it works great with our small solar system. When we bought ours 2 years ago with all the discounts, rebates, and tax credits we paid about $950. They now list at $2500 at our local Menards.
We don't notice any noise because it's located in our basement
Good luck 👍
Is it better than a condensing Tankless water heater?
@@gavindmello Depends on what you're trying to achieve. I'm rural so I have 2 options either propane or electric. An on demand propane water heater would cost me about 6 times as much to operate. In a grid down scenario I would still be able to have hot water with my solar system as long as I continue to have water.
At $.40 a day for 80 gallons of hot water, I don't know of anything less expensive other than a geothermal looped system tied to your water heater. I know because I had one for 11 years.
I installed the 50 gal Rheem in Dec in my all electric PNW home. It is located in my below ground garage.. Due to the 70db noise level I felt the unit was defective since they advertised 49dBL. Currently on my third unit and realized it was not going to be any quieter. It is only two of us in the household and have not had any issues with not having hot water. I initially set mine for 120 degrees. We quickly realized the water was hotter than what my legacy 50 gal was set ( legacy 50gal heater was10 yrs old and rated $500 a year in energy). Lowered it to 118 and then from 10:30pm to 6:00am it is scheduled at 112 degrees. A couple of days ago changed the schedule to 116 day and 110 at night. Also run in energy saver mode with geofencing active as well. We are retired so mostly home throughout the day. As a comparison my MAY usage 72.01kWh. A significant saving over your unit. I would suggest stepping through lowering your set point to determine your actual need to meet your family’s usage. Set at 130 you are heating the water and then using cold water to bring it down to a temperature that is safe for skin contact. In our RV with an instant hot water heater we found setting it to 110 with no cold water was perfect for our showers. I should noted I have 6.03kWh of solar, a smart Nest thermostat and now the Rheem. In May I had a $10 electric bill and my most recent we supplied electricity to the grid. Thanks for posting and please do some playing around with your settings.
@T Raybern my electric bill is about $100 a year to run this. The app schedules it from 10pm to 6am at 114 degrees. Currently during prime hrs set at 117 degrees. No complaints.
Do understand that feeding cooler water to a dishwasher will increase electricity usage by causing the heating unit in the dishwasher to come on.
@@paulsylvester1394 who adds cold water into a dish washer? And yes the dish washer will heat as necessary to meet its needs.
Huh? I have the 80 gal Rheem and while I haven't measured how loud it is, subjectively, it is plenty quiet. I keep it set at 125 F and haven't seen any way to schedule the temperature to change throughout the day automatically. I have had the thought that if you combined it with a gas powered tankless heater to boost it from heat pump only mode set to 90-100F to 110 for a nice hot shower, that would be the best of both worlds, both for efficiency and to avoid having to wait a few minutes for the hot water to make it from the tank in the garage to the shower.
Doesn't anybody have anything better to do then?Program a water heater
I have had the Rheem 60 gallon water heater for seven months, with just my wife and I, we use on average less than 2 kW-hours of electricity per day which is about 20 cents. Our monthly usage is less than 60 kW-hours which is about $6-7. It definitely is saving energy compared to the traditional electric heater.
Great to hear! If I may ask, is yours in the basement too? Did you do any kind of ducting or anything?
Nice! Geez... how I wish my electricity cost $0.10 per kwh!
@@mockingbird187 PG&E in Norcal, Jan 2022...... 26 cents per kilowatt hour Tier 1, then if you use more that the pathetic low limit around 3 weeks into the month it goes to 35 cents a kilowatt hour. Enjoy your cheap power.
@@kimmer6 I'm in San Diego.
Winter
on-peak = $0.55
off-peak = $0.48
super off-peak = $0.46
What a rip-off.
@@mockingbird187 Holy smokes! Robbery!
I have had one of these Rheem hybrid since 2017. I use it to heat the incoming city water, it is then fed into a Rheem Marathon. The theory is the hybrid does the bulk of the heating and the Marathon then only has to maintain. These two water heaters together are used to provide hot water for a 4 unit apartment building. No one has ever run out of hot water since they were installed.
I vent the exhaust out of the hybrid up through the floor to cool an electronics room, which is a nice benefit.
When I originally purchased I estimated my payback time was about 4 years, if my calculations were correct the extra costs involved should be paid back by now.
The only problem I have had was the amount of dust being sucked into the hybrid from the room it is in. I ended up building a little pipe with a furnace air filter on the end, to filter the incoming air. That has taken care of my dust buildup issues, just changing the filter every 6 months or so and the hybrid is clean and happy.
The fact that it air conditions while heating water, is perfect for southern states that Rarely need heaters in the house and do need AC Cooling most of the year.
I live in a northern climate, so not so good.
@@srobeck77 you put it in an unconditioned space such as a basement. Or in your furnace room. It will only cool the immediate area and is still much more efficient than a standard electric.
@@MrToLIL Yea, but if you are burning gas to make the heat rather than getting it from outside for free, you would be better off with a gas water heater.
We replaced a gas unit with one of these in our garage in Virginia. I ran it in 100% heat pump mode in summer to cool and dehumidify the space. Then 100% electric in winter. Worked very well. Had to clean the air filter a few times a year but not a big deal. I added a small furnace filter before the primary filter and made life a lot easier.
Love my heat pump water heater here in GA! It cools my basement and dehumidifies as well. In the winter when I occasionally use my basement wood furnace, it uses the wood heat to transfer into the water heater. Bought a GE 10 yrs ago and it developed a crack in the basin that collects condensate off of the condenser unit and since I did NOT have a leak pan, it caused a small flood. Switched to totally electric mode and will replace it with the 80 gal RHEEM from HD. The GE had to be serviced under warranty and now a defect in the plastic resulted in a crack that now causes it to leak condensate. Make sure you have a pan under the unit and/or leak detection monitors.
Where in Ga ga a basement? I’m in Glynn county
@@johnsparks6949 The mountains, up thar with the gold!
We've had this water heater since November 2019 and bought it for the same price as a standard 50 gallon water heater after an instant rebate from our electric company. Our electric bill has gone down substantially since installing the Rheem.
You got lucky. I have Orange and Rockland and they only have a 300$ non instant rebate.
You paid for that rebate and then some by the electric co scamming you (see energy efficiency charge). Fuck them and every level of govt.
I have a previous version of the Rheem unit - 80 gallon version from Home Depot. Installed it in Jan 2020 and have it set to 125F on heat pump only mode in a new build home in Florida (the unit is in a garage) - aside from a few times of high demand with deep cleaning a large shower and doing multiple loads of laundry, it has stayed on heat-pump mode. Last year, the unit consumed 684.94 kWh of electricity. So far this year, we are at 377.88 kWh. We are entering the summer months which drives down the energy usage since the garage is so much warmer and we tend to take cooler, shorter showers during these months. Plus, laundry is shorts, t-shirts and bathing suits which cuts down on the amount of water usage as well. All in all, I spent less than $90 on electricity for the water heater in 2020. The old version was a 50-gallon, dual element electric unit that was rated at nearly $400 annual cost to operate - and 30 gallons less capacity.
Did you notice a temperature drop in your garage? If so how much?
@@9thousandwatts yes-it just depends on how much the water heater runs but in the summertime, there is a noticeable difference and walking into the garage is noticeably cooler and less humid. It won’t get over 82° in the summer in there (south facing, 400 sq Ft, double door w/windows)
We installed a Rheem 50 gal Hybrid water heater 12 years ago and have never regretted it. We immediately saved $20 - $30 per month. We were able to buy it on sale and after electric company rebate and federal tax credit the unit cost us $0.00 (I installed the unit). There are only the two of us but we have had as many as 7 in the house and never ran out of water or had the electric coils kick in. Rheem exceeded my expectations with this unit.
Wow, how did you do that? I got an 80 gallon one and I think it was $2000. I think I got a $300 federal tax credit for it and $300 from the utility company, but that still left the cost at $1400 before installation.
I have the 50 gallon Rheem Heat Pump Water Heater too. Last year for the entire year our family of 6 used 402 KWH of power at $0.11 a KWH which cost us only $45.00 for the entire year for how water! We also have a 2500w solar panel grid tied system and that would mean our solar panel system paid for the water heater use for sure. It has been a fantastic water heater. No complaints or issues. I will perform a flush on ours soon. I have two scale inhibitors in our water system and a whole house 3M filter which has scale inhibitors as well so I am hoping and praying that continues to lessen the scale within the heater. Before our filtration we would have 6-10 inches of scale every few years within our tank which I would suck out with a piece of electrical Carflex and a wet vac.
One other note. Usually for us we have the temp sitting at 115 degrees normally and once in a while to 120-130 of my wife needs to wash a lot of dishes by hand. We have never had an issue with the water set to 115. We did however when we had it set to 110. At 110 it would not recover quickly enough with back to back baths or showers. I know for certain we're are saving energy and money with having it set to 115 instead of 120-130+.
We also use this in Central Florida so this works fantastic for us in our laundry room which is in our house. We leave the door open and it cools the back half of our house too!
Great honest review and comment video. I just installed this unit in my 2 car garage here in North Florida. I’m one of those rare people that actually use my garage to keep my wife’s and my car in daily. So my idea was to use the waste heat from those cars to assist in heating my water in the evening, and also cooling down my garage. I did have one glitch over the first night. When I started the unit I put it in high use mode to force it to run the elements and the compressor to rapidly bring the water to temperature. Afterwards, I put it back in Eco mode just before bedtime. Woke up the next morning to no hot water. Called Rheem, they walked me through some troubleshooting. As soon as I touched the keypad, the compressor started and the unit has worked normally ever since. At lest for the last 4 days. So far with my family of three, it has only used the compressor to heat the water.
It sounds kind of Rube Goldberg-ish.... But I would love to hear about what efficiency gains you get from it? Such as using the latent heat from your vehicle versus ambient temperature. Below are some of my ideas on the subject matter .
Heat-Pump based appliances, in the home on their own tend to be very efficient. But it begs a question, when are we going to see manufacturers integrate them, to exponentially increase their overall efficiency? By using waste (such as heat) as a resource.
For example, a refrigerator producers waste heat at about the same temperature as a water heater. And then there are heat pumps used for HVAC.
Yes, it adds some complexity, that I'm not going to go into detail here about. But it also adds the possibility of simplification and additional synergies too.
Heat-Pump Water Heaters are one more step in the right direction. Let's hope to see some more steps taken soon.
Did you notice a temperature drop in your garage? If so how much?
You live in the free state of florida and you installed a heat pump? As a san francisco plumber I suggest you get a normal gas water heater and pray to the lord the democrats don't take over florida! Lol enjoy your freedom buddy while you can!! 😆 🤣
Yea that's because anything electrical these days is designed to fail. Stupid liberals just want to buy bells and whistles rather than reliability. I guess reality and reliability don't co exist to some people coming from the left...
@@RyanG-tg9nq A heat pump water heater is great here in Florida.... all of that free heat in the garage only takes a tiny amount of energy to push into the water. In cooler climates I would definitely recommend a gas heater, especially if you have natural gas piped to your house already.
This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. ruclips.net/user/postUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).
To avoid getting sunburn.
We are a two person household. In the summer it’s about 1/4 the cost (19kwh/week!) to operate of my old water heater. In the winter it’s about 1/3 the cost compared to the old one. Yes it was more expensive $1079 for 45 gallon and $196 in parts to install, but I will most definitely make the money back in a couple years. I’m just floored by the difference in our electric bills. Running it at 110deg most the day (change temp schedule via Wi-Fi). It comes on to 125deg (otherwise we run out of hot water) around 3pm-7:30pm(back down to 110deg normally just as 2nd person starts their shower).We’ve gotten in the habit of trying to run dw and take showers only in this window. It’s in the garage so we run it on heat pump only in the summer as it runs efficiently in a hot humid garage. In the winter we run it on energy saver (elements and heat pump). Highly recommend especially if your state offers a rebate.
Used to live in San Diego, can't believe how much electricity has gone up there. Now in Ontario, Canada and pay about US$0.05/kWh off peak. Enjoying our new heat pump HVAC and heating the house for C$1/day in the winter! 👍
Electricity only getting worse with all those useless electric cars too
Wow, only 5 cents per kWh up there? I thought it was pretty cheap at just under 15 cents down here in Florida. I hear in California they are paying over 50 cents!
We've had one for about 1.5 years in our garage in Phoenix. Works great. Saves a lot of energy. And cools our garage! (a little bit)
How much of a temperature difference would you say?
@@9thousandwatts We have a 3-car garage, with the WH in a corner. It doesn't run enough to make a sustained difference in the temperature of the whole garage. Mainly it's nice when I'm working over in that corner while it happens to be running. It provides a nice cool breeze.
I use the scheduling feature in the app to only heat the water to 124 during the evening hours when we are in the habit of taking showers. Then I reduce the temperature to 112 for the rest of the day. You can set temp and mode for up to 4 time segments. This saves a lot of electricity!
It's great that you have a scheduling feature. But based on how a water tank heater operates, I'm willing to bet you save less than 1% of your energy usage.
@@nc3826 I am on a time of use plan. Electricity is more expensive from 4 to 9 pm. So I set to 125 at 2 pm, 110 at 4 pm and 120 at 9 pm. That does save money by not running during peak power cost time.
@@danielcarroll3358 TOU was not part of the discussion. So in your case your, savings would be higher.
But to maximize your savings, you only want to use the electricity during the lowest lowest rate period. So a large enough tank, to make that possible would be ideal. Or by adding a second tank. To fully time shift the demand to the lowest rate.
Just a thought good luck.
That's great.....but maybe one of those cycles should be set a bit higher since "The American Society of Sanitary Engineering recommends setting the temperature of home water heaters to 135 degrees to 140 degrees Fahrenheit, a range shown to destroy bacteria such as Legionella . At those temperatures, bacteria can neither thrive or survive to contaminate fixtures downstream from the heater. "
I do not know any form of plumbing system that only uses hot water? So feel free to turn it up to 212°F if you want.... But the cold water will still kill you, if you have a lethal pathogen in your system....
but at least Copper and its alloys, such as brass, bronze and copper-nickel, are inherently antimicrobial.... If that's your phobia....
I have the exact same unit running in New England in my basement. My experience with humidification has been excellent. I don't use my dehumidifier any longer. However, I did pipe the air discharge to 6 inches off my floor in the pipe my air intake to 6 inches off the ceiling this ensures I always have at least 3° of differential or greater between inlet and outlet. as for the harmonics I connected mine at the hot and cold water lines with isolation, nipples "flexible, elements" in this way theres is no attenuation in the piping network .
My savings is 75%. I monitored the old high watt heater before switching. I have ducted mine. My basement stays 60 degrees + year round from were I pull the air. The efficiency certainly goes up with ducting.
I built my own heat pump water heater. I’ve been pretty happy with it, I’m using a half-assed geothermal loop and a window AC compressor for it. If the cost would come down on them I bet they would be a lot more popular.
Wow, I'm very interested in how you did this. Do you have a water loop with the evaporator submerged? Or is it more complex than that?
@@LithiumSolar Yeah, I’m using about 200 feet of pex for a ground loop, with a small boiler pump. There’s two coil-type pipe-in-pipe heat exchangers and circulator pumps to my regular electric heater I use as holding tank. I didn’t bury the loop far enough down so it doesn’t work well in the winter, though. It was more of an experiment to see if i could build one with mostly parts on hand from scrapping appliances. Unless you’re an AC tech with appropriate tools and skills I don’t recommend trying to build one, especially geothermal.
We installed a 50 gallon version and it uses about 3 kWh per day as well… three people in the house too. Instead of a second tank, we have a thermostatic mixing valve installed with Rheem set at 140. Using it in a basement that’s always 65 degrees and don’t notice much a temp drop in the basement; We’ll see for sure in the winter!
How was it in the winter? Thanks
How was it in the winter?
It works much better/more efficient in hot humid weather. It will run longer in the winter. I have had mine for 4 years now. My basement garage is cooler when it runs. Great video
I had a "add on" hot water heat pump decades ago when they first came out, drove 8 hours to get it in North Carolina. Plugged it into the escape and drainage outlet and voila, it cooled my earth sheltered house nicely for 25 years and dropped my electric bill in half. The electric company came out as they thought it was stealing electricity, lasted 25 years. In the winter I used the heaters in my water tank. Fast forward to 15 years ago when I put in a hybrid water heater. After 7 years there was a short and I found out no one could fix the problem. Good thing I got a 10-year warrantee. I found out there is still a problem getting these fixed and if you don't get a long-term warrantee you may have a problem,
What brand did you get?
Livin' the d'Rheem.
Just ordered the 65 gallon version and so excited to run this off my LG solar panels! Free hot water!
Well it isn't free. Those solar panels cost a lot of money, and even if they make more electricity than you need, you could be selling it back to the grid instead of using it to run the water heater, which also is rather expensive. But it's still better than a normal electric heater.
@@phillipsusi1791 the solar payment isn't going to be higher than your electricity usage. Also you have to make sure you get a good deal just like buying anything else
To maintain temperatures between the 2 tanks, you could put a circulating pump between the 2 and have it run if you wanted to get the hot water into the second tank...
Wierd
I live in Queensland Australia so a solar HWS can be ideal. My 16 year old one is being replaced this month. My 320L storage tank is located on the ground close to where most hot water is used. That tank can be recharged with power after prolonged rainy days. My previous solar system was about 80% efficient. So I got free hot water 80% of the time. I also have solar power collectors where I get Aus 49 cents per kilowat. I haven't paid anything for electricity for the last 16 years. Free hot water and free power. Happy with that.
Excellent presentation and superior analysis. You covered all the questions I had about this type of system. Thank you so much.
I also have one of these and I concur with your assessment of it. I’m off grid and it is amazing how efficient this is compared to a standard electric water heater.
Heat-Pump based appliances, in the home on their own tend to be very efficient. But it begs a question, when are we going to see manufacturers integrate them, to exponentially increase their overall efficiency? By using waste (such as heat) as a resource.
For example, a refrigerator producers waste heat at about the same temperature as a water heater. And then there are heat pumps used for HVAC.
Yes, it adds some complexity, that I'm not going to go into detail here about. But it also adds the possibility of simplification and additional synergies too.
Heat-Pump Water Heaters are one more step in the right direction. Let's hope you see some more steps taken soon.
@@nc3826 This is what we expect Tesla to attempt soon enough. A combined AC/waterheater+ system.
@@colinfagan Tesla takes an opposite approach .... which results in some very complex parts (but it does improve efficiency).... which would become even more complex in a home HVAC system....
BTW who is the "we", that you are referring to, that are expecting Tesla to make this attempt?
Lastly, based on Tesla's track record for producing integrated solar shingles.... You should not hold your breath....
To reduce noise transferring to the living space you may consider adding some studio sound absorbing foam in your garage or wherever your tank is located
Mine is in the garage and doesn't seem hardly any louder than my chest freezer.
I have the same WH. Works great. Savings alone have already paid it off from a standard electric water heater. No issues whatsoever. Plus I use a generator occasionally and it basically only uses 110 to power the compressor so I have plenty of hot water when my power goes out. Must have.
The compressor still runs off of 240V. I just only draws about 1-1.5 amps.
Have two of these in Tennessee. They have allowed me to remove dehumidifiers and their electricity load in addition to the savings you describe. I expect to add 22 SEER ductless heat pumps in both basements to boost basement winter temps. In the summer early mornings I cool the house to 72. I bump the air based hvac to 80 when outside temps hit 80 and use the coolness from the basement to offset daily heat spikes upstairs. Maximizing cooling when temps are below 80 keeps the delta t on the coils in a high efficiency range.
The bottom line is that you can achieve big energy savings by contemplating this as part of the overall energy load and conditioning of your home.
Have you priced a solar install on your house? PV prices have (and are continuing) fallen to the point that adding a few more panels to a system costs far less than replacing a resistance water heater with a heat pump one. When electricity becomes free, the whole concept of energy conservation through device efficiency turns on it's head. It becomes an exercise in math to figure out what the total annual electric consumption is and compare the cost of adding solar to the cost of the more expensive heat pump devices. If I were building or remodeling now, I'd be considering in-floor radiant resistive heating.
@@garymunson2493that may work great in heat-only climates, but if you're in the zones where you have to have AC anyway, the heat pump, which is just AC in reverse, is a requirement anyway, and there's no point in resistive heat as a primary. IMO, the air-to-water radiant heating and cooling through the floor is how I would build a single story, or ground floor if multi-story, house. If I was building using insulated concrete forms, the walls would only be externally insulated and added to the radiant thermal control system, especially for cooling.
Still holds true in hotter climates. You will find you can get much higher efficiency straight ACs units than heat pumps that are more complex and a somewhat compromise system. If I were to build a house I would make sure there was sufficient South roof Real Estate for sufficient panels to accomplish all heating with resistance. Panels continue to fall in price (already cheaper than the extra cost of heat pump technology) and have far longer lifespan than the heat pump equipment. With just straight AC for cooling, that side of the system would also last longer since it would be running less without heat pump duty in the winter.@@anthonykaiser974
We went with spacePak hybrid water heater for our whole house hydronic rediant heat system. About 1600 sq ft. So far so good 3 years on.
We originally installed an AO Smith heat pump 50 gallon (the largest Lowes had at the time) water heater two years ago. We wanted to replace a 75gallon propane unit. The hybrid (heat pump with elements) seemed like a sensible and thrifty solution. I was very happy with the unit once installed. That lasted about 2 week. My wife complained mightily about how noisy it was. She was right. In our living room in the floor above it was quite loud. I returned it to Lowes withing the satisfaction period (with a little trouble). I then ordered an 82gallon Rheem from Home Despot. Other than delivery (they stopped delivering themselves and started contracting it out. It took weeks to get it delivered and installed. The Rheem is 18db quieter. I am very happy about that.
I am NOT happy about the constant problems. The unit goes through periods when it trips a reset switch on the top element. When it does, the whole thing shuts down. This requires a breaker reset, reset button reset or both. This can occur as frequently as every other week or not for two months, and then every other week. Tech support told me how to push the red button, but that's about it.
I have not put an amp meter on the leads to record energy usage, but I assume the unit is saving money. I think it is saving less money because we have to run "high demand" mode. I'll keep you posted. I am less than satisfied because, as you may imagine, my wife gets a little irritated when the thing stops working. The 10-year warrantee is no comfort if it's going to be 10 years of complaining from my better half.
I didn't realize the AO smith one was that noisy. I got an 80 gallon Rheem and it is quiet. It has been pretty great other than the fact that it died after about 1 year and getting it replaced was a bit of an ordeal. Home depot didn't keep them in stock so I had to order one, then they only wanted to give me a store credit to return the failed one because I had ordered the new one online before returning the old one. And that was after Rheem sent out a plumber 2 or 3 times to try to fix it before finally giving up and saying they would replace it under warranty and told me to order one from home depot if they did not have them in stock. During that whole time it would alarm because the heat pump failed, so I would silence the alarm and put it in electric only mode, but it automatically goes back to economy mode after 7 days and would alarm again. I have 3 kids and a renter in the mother-in-law suite and I keep it on heat pump only mode except maybe for December and January. I eventually had to call home depot corporate to get someone to overrule the local store manager and make them refund my credit card for the new order.
Just dropped in as I am going to put a Rheem Heat Pump unit in myself and reading through the comments, there are two things: (1) The installation/operation manual clearly points out that in the Heat Pump Mode (correction: I should have said In Energy Saving Mode and 240vac powered.), when the water demand is high and the heat pump cannot keep up it will use the heating element to supplement until the demand lowers and the heat pump can keep up with demand. Thus, when you first turn it on and it reads the temperature it will use the heating element(s) to bring the water up to a temp that the heat pump can operate and maintain the desired storage temp range by itself. (2) If the heating element circuit, or even the heat pump circuit is tripping the breaker and the electrical wiring is not compromised in any way and/or on a new installation, then whoever installed it did not size the circuit according to NEC coding. If the expected rating is up to 12 amps, then it should have a wire size of 14 gauge with a 15 amp breaker. But I suspect that if it is also using the auxillary heating element through the same circuit, the amperage draw could be a bit higher if it is a 120 vac element. So, let's say the amperage draw can be up to 16 amps. In this case it should be 12 gauge wire and a 20 amp circuit breaker with a neutral and power wire in a single phase, 120 vac circuit, wiring color coding is White for neutral and Black for power. If it is up to say 18 amps then it would be 10 gauge wire and a 25 amp breaker, and so on. This is laid out in the installation manual on electrical connections. And if the amperage draw during operation is higher then the wire and breaker size must be according to the NEC coding for that higher draw ratings. In a single phase 240 vac circuit it would require a double pole breaker, same wire and breaker size ratings for matching amperage draws, and would have an L1 and L2 wiring strategy, the usual wire color code is Black for L1 (Power Lead 1 - 120 vac) and Red for L2 (Power lead 2 - 120 vac). No neutral is used on a 240 vac supply circuit for your appliances. And on this wiring strategy one lead would operate the Heat Pump and the other the heating element, but if the breaker trips on a double pole breaker it could be either of the leads, but not necessarily both, that can trip the breaker. It is possible also that your auxillary heating element my be drawing an amperage above its rating and would need to be replaced under warranty to fix it. A current draw test by someone with this knowledge of AC electrical circuits should be done during operation to determine which of these scenarios it is.
Hope this clarifies, JD Foster Copper Basin HVAC and Solar.
@@josephfoster3300 No, without a neutral you don't *have* 120 vac. You ONLY have 240vac. You can't use one leg for 120vac for one thing and the other 120vac leg for another without the neutral. Both the resistive heating and the heat pump run off of 240vac between both legs. Also every water heater I've ever seen has been rated for a 30 amp 240vac circuit. Clothes dryers like to cheap out and build their AC/DC power supply for the electronics to only handle 120vac, which is why there is a neutral in the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Also it is economy mode that falls back to supplementing the heat pump with the resistive heat strips when needed. Heat pump only mode means what it says on the tin.
@@phillipsusi1791 On a residential you have ground tied to neutral and can divide the L1 and L2 into 120 vac, new coding requires however a 4 wire circuit plug on 240 vac appliances and have a neutral and ground, the older 3 wire plugs ground from an internal loads panel are tied to neutral, only service entrance panel neutrals are unbonded to ground. That is the reason for the change to the four to eliminate this "hack" on neutral which potentially compromises the fault ground protection in a high current flow fault. I have run into this wiring scenario many times. My stove was wired this way and I had to run a new wire cable and add the 4 terminal plugs to it to meet current code in my area when I remodeled my house and pass the electrical inspection. My stove runs the heating elements from the L2 side and the electronics from the L1 side. But you are right and I guess I was trying to be as brief as possible and din't think of this. Thank you for pointing this out though and identifying this flaw in my explanation.
Also, these new Hybrids come in either a 120vac or 240vac wiring scheme. The 120vac Hybrid I am going to install will be the 120vac like my all in one Hybrid LG washer/dryer. The Rheem I will be installing like this guy above, will run both the heating elements and heat pump system off the same power lead. But now thinking about from your comments on neutral they couldn't be running at the same time. Not having the required 15 or 20 amp circuit and breaker as laid out in its installation instructions. (Actually, I just found out that the 120vac models don't have a resistance heating element at all, see the Matt Risinger channels 2020 Review on the top 7 heat pump water heaters.) And the model I well install has several more mode strategies then our friend here since it is an upgraded and more expensive model as well. I know my Gree Flexx air handler in the attic required 240vac without a neutral to it and a 20 amp circuit with breaker. The circuit board controlling it is like a computer motherboard since it is an inverter type system. It obviously has the capability to massage that voltage down to where it needs it. My Enphase Solar with battery backup system with a microgrid forming controller has a neutral forming transformer in it so it can have 120 vac for the house. When my grid power goes down and my system creates its own power or microgrid with both 240vac and 120vac because of the need for the two in the house while off grid. This new Hybrid stuff cannot be compared to our older water heaters, that do like you say, run at much higher currents and require the heavier current drawing circuits. And the model I well install has several more mode strategies then our friend here since it is an upgraded and more expensive model as well.
i have had mine 7 years, love it. I installed in Garage, no flue needed.
One word of advise for those planning on buying one of these and installing it yourself - be prepared to do troubleshooting and even repairs yourself. Maybe call Rheems and find out WHO in your area would be providing service if needed. I had the extended warranty - but the shop that Rheems had contracted with to provide service dropped out - and I was told to contact someone local to come out. How many local plumbers or heat pump techs are going to be interested in that? Every phone call to Rheems was at least a 90 minute to 2 hour wait (though you could leave your number and they would call you back). How many local techs are going to waiting at your house for 90 minutes waiting to talk to Rheems? I found the Rheems tech line knowledgeable and helpful - and the item they wanted to replace was something I decided to tackle - but for the less technical that would not have been an option. There something to be said to having someone in your area sell and install the unit - and they are the ones to call. I had the unit not quite a year and it had to be replaced (per Rheems). Took it back to Home Depot to swap. They had one left that was identical to mine - if not - and I had to get a newer model I would have had to pay the difference between the original one and the new one. And one last thing in this story. I called the folks that provided the "extended" warrenty - so they could update their records with the new serial number. They said I would have to cancel the existing contract and reapply for a new one. At that point I said just cancel it and reimburse me. Almost 6 weeks later I finally got a check back - something like 70% of what I originally paid.
I'm a physicist. Some heating company installe a similar system in my house's basement years ago. But it is extremely important to have at least one air duct to the outside (and additionally some natural air flow in the other direction). A heat pump that runs in a near closed system isn't efficient at all: if the room temperature goes down during operation, it will increase later, but that will mostly be heat coming from the boiler and pipes, so basically it's a loss of efficiency.
In winter, I always duct the cold air to the outside, in summer during heat waves, I sometimes reverse it as it acts as an air conditioner - at least for the basement.
When putting tanks in series: make certain you keep temperatures high enough to not risk Legionella developing (this can kill you). So your last volume's temperature should be set around 55 degrees (Celsius).
In The South this is brilliant. Our water heater is in the garage and can t wait to replace it with one of these. It ll cool the garage until i open the garage of course.
Thanks for the review ….. I’m considering replacing my propane hot water heater with the hybrid unit.
Heat-Pump based appliances, in the home on their own tend to be very efficient. But it begs a question, when are we going to see manufacturers integrate them, to exponentially increase their overall efficiency? By using waste (such as heat) as a resource.
For example, a refrigerator producers waste heat at about the same temperature as a water heater. And then there are heat pumps used for HVAC.
Yes, it adds some complexity, that I'm not going to go into detail here about. But it also adds the possibility of simplification and additional synergies too.
Heat-Pump Water Heaters are one more step in the right direction. Let's hope you see some more steps taken soon.
I installed the 80 gallon model a few months ago, and overall it’s pretty decent.
For me, we average about 4kWh/day between two adults (with usually long showers, with a bath every now and then), dishwasher, and laundry. The unit is installed in our fairly insulated garage, and (mostly) replaced a oil burning water heater. We have cold winters, so we vent the exhaust air outside during winter and spring using the old exhaust already installed. Summer we vent into the garage, which helps keep it cool.
One bummer is we have radiant flooring, and even at high output, it couldn’t really heat a single small zone of flooring (which would consume about 70kWh/day). The specs of the heater looked like it could handle a small zone, but it couldn’t. The old heater will go back for the floor, but at least the Rheem has helped us cut monthly costs and is cleaner to run.
Shucks. I was planning on installing this next to my wood stove in the basement and heating s 20 x 30 room directly above it with radiant heat. I was going to have the wood stove help heat the water by thermo siphoning etc.
I don’t want to install a gas one...
@@trophyfishn9757 that’s correct, both reported by the water heater and my breaker. It couldn’t keep up with the demand
Remember to clean the filter and fins after a while, it's something people overlook. Like a fridge, you have to vacuum the fins. Even if it's not explicitly stated in the heat pump manual, the fin vacuuming and wiping may catch any extra dust getting past the air filter. Also, the electrically disconnected fore tank will help efficiency by naturally preheat the water from say 50 degree ground up to ambient room temp 72 degrees+/- overnight, lessening heat pump tank recovery time. An interesting strategy.
Comment on the home heater working harder to get the cool out. During summer months it helps the AC. During winter months yes it causes more to be spent on heat IF your using electric heat. If your using a heat pump which is moving heat vs creating it will still use less power than a normal electric water heater.
I've had a unit like this for a little over 10 years. My advice, manage expectations. Imagine a car A/C cooling your garage. Your car A/C would do a better job than a HPWH. It's job is to heat water. It doesn't do a better job than a conventional unit, it's just more efficient. I never purchase warranties but I did with my HPWH. After 9 years they said GE no longer supports my unit so they gave me my purchase price back... amazing. Of course I only paid 3x more for the unit than the conventional ones. Federal rebates have a cap on them so if you purchased other energy efficient items in the past you probably have already maxed out. Local rebates are legit.
That's an awesome review. I love hearing the details on objects most people take for granted.
*granite...
LoL!!!
@@JM-yx1lm ?
That's great, I've just had solar installed, and the main power drain everyday is hot water. I'll definitely consider these when I replace my unit. Here in Australia, most people have theirs installed outside, as we don't typically have basements..
Or winter. :-)
@@mjbirdClavdivs Your right of course, compared to to you guys we don't have winter but that's outside inside the house its cold I'm sitting here in Sydney its 6am and I have on thermals, tracksuit pants polo neck shirt another shirt and a jacket on. Australian houses are built like tents the builders like them to breathe and very little insulation.
@@michaelmcclown5593 I understand. Northern California used to be like that. The Bay would keep things cool and foggy, and the buildings around Stanford & Berkeley just didn't insulate enough. Nothing's worse than wet cold, IMHO. Hang in there, your winter solstice is less than a fortnight away!
Except most places that install water heaters outside, use tankless models... And as far as I know there are no tankless heat pump water heaters....
Pull the anode after about a year or two and give it a look. You can get an estimate of how often you will need to change it. Keep a couple on hand. You can get many more years out of it if you keep the anode changed.
Random question I've been curious about since you mention that. If I bond the input and output copper pipes with a piece of copper wire, will that reduce the need to replace the anode rod? Isn't the rod eroding pretty much only caused by electrolysis?
@@LithiumSolar a lot of nipples are galvanically isolated and the ions in the water will still attack a steel tank without a working anode. Besides anodes are cheap and a must replace for full payback.
@@peterg.8245 I think the tank in the hybrid is plastic. There is no mention of a serviceable anode in my hybrids service manual.
@@jstaffordii Tank is glass in this one .
Keep a few on hand? The sacrificial anode should only need replaced after 5-7 years. And yea, I think my Rheem is fiberglass, not steel, so there's no anode.
I think the heat pump heater still has a lot of potential to be derived. better insulation, better power consumption control and be used to cool the house in the summer
Absolutely! I'd love to be able to route the cool air to my living spaces. I just don't want to start cutting holes everywhere lol.
@@LithiumSolar actually I consider it is more than do some air conduct. under different working condition the output air temperature may fluctuate thus additional control loop needs to be added. but this is more of a fun part, you may invest some time till it really functioning well
I used mine to air condition the entire house in the summer.
Glad you like it. Just wait until it breaks down and you see the repair bill....
Yep, probably won't like it then! Lol
in Phoenix they are nice to have in the garage, they keep the garage cool
Did u have gas before?
Same here in Florida, but even though it may only actually be 3-4 degrees cooler, the lowered humidity makes it feel like it is 8-10 degrees.
Thanks for the info,looking for a new system,and I'm vacuuming all I can find.
Using a tank inline before the actual heater, like you are, is called a tempering tank. Although the tank being insulated kinda reduces the effect.
Interesting, had no idea there was an actual name for it lol. Thanks!
Keeping your old electric water heater in series with the heat pump heater is a good idea. If the electric breaker is kept on , the old heater will use power to maintain the water temperature. Primary heating will still be the heat pump. If you draw down the hot water from the new heater, you will have a tank full of cold water in the old tank. What will you do with 40 gallons of cold water?
Yeah that's exactly what I ended up doing. I'll probably get rid of it soon though. It's going on 10 years old now and is showing signs of corrosion around the base.
I've had the 80 gallon one for 2 years now, family home with 4 adults, we are saving $30.00 per month. I schedule the hot water heater to turn on a few minutes after the gas furnace turns on so when the water heat turns on the furnace room is at a higher tempeture
Yea, but if it is drawing the heat from the furnace, the furnace probably spent another $30 making that heat.
I wonder if you would be interested in running a test to see what level of humidity it can maintain without the other dehumidifier running. For example, turn the humidistat up to 70% when we get into summer and see what level of humidity the hybrid water heater can maintain. I'm pretty sure I pay quite a bit to keep my dehumidifier running and would love to be able to shut it off if a hybrid hot water heater could maintain something like 60% or below. Maybe it's just too much to hope for.
Here in Florida the water heater is in the garage, and the air is normally around 70%-80% humidity. I'm not sure how low it actually gets it, but it gets it low enough that it *feels* a lot more comfortable. If I had to guess, I would say it probably gets it down to 50-60%. Between the humidity and temperature, the garage goes from "ugh, I can't stay here for more than a few minutes" to "this isn't bad at all".
There should be a version with an auxiliary unit that can be mounted outside. Using this with a shower drain heat recuperator would be awesome too
YES! I was thinking mounting on 2nd floor where the cold goes down a vent to my refrigerator, and the heat loops up to the water heater. Wish manufacturers would get their act together.
good vid. If you have Peltier dehumidifier running down there the waste heat (about 500-600W for a basic domestic model) will be powering the heat exchanger too, so you could see a power bill reduction there.
Sounds like a great idea. I looked into that type of water heater last year and it would have required 3 contractors to install it. An electrician and a plumber and an HVAC to get it running. None of them really wanted to do it but it was going to cost around $4k to have in installed. Uh yeah no thanks.
I have no idea why you would need that many contractors. There is nothing for an HVAC technician to do. It's a pre-charged sealed system, just like a window air conditioner is. You don't need an HVAC technician to install one of those. You also shouldn't need an electrician as long as you have an existing line run. A new install where none existed previously - sure, you'd need a new line pulled by an electrician.
@@LithiumSolar Here's why. They are large units that require more space around them. That required relocating the unit to a newly finished mechanical room. Needed to run pex to a different location, the plumber is like, you need to punch a hole in your concrete wall for the condensate drain, which I had already done but there'd need to be a drain anyway so we can exclude that. Then need to run 220v to the unit. That's where there the electrician comes in . Then we needed to figure out how to take advantage of the cool air venting capability would would have been wasted in the mech room. There's where the HVAC tech comes in. To run vents all the way back to where the water heater would have been if it didn't require the spacing.
And also factor in there's only about 2 contractors for each trade in this town and they price things accordingly.
@@TheKingOfInappropriateComments I think I paid my handyman $100 to cut out the old unit, pick up the new unit from home depot, connect it to the water pipes, drill a hole in the wall and run a few feet of PVC to drain the condensate to the outside. At my previous house I think I just paid the home depot contractor $300 to do it all.
@@phillipsusi1791 i had a more complex scenario than you. Mine ws not a swap out, it was a new install. Needing to run water lines, eleectrical and deal with the venting.
Just got this installed to replace the old gas heater and it is the best water heater to get.
In a hot climate compared to an electric heater, they are great. In a cold climate compared to a gas heater, not really.
I have a 50 gallon Aosmith hybrid for 5 years. The power company gave me a $600 rebate which made its net cost over a standard about 200.00 which was a no brainer. I think replacing the lower element with a DC version and running off a 400w panel would make it perfect, just haven’t gotten to it. We are all electric and average $100 per month which contributes to why I haven’t.
Hybrid water heaters are for warmer states they even show a map so if you live in the cold north this is not the water heater for you if you don't have a basement with a utility room. I've had a hybrid water heater for over 12 years and the room will get down 55 in that basement room. Save over 4.00 a month day one. Since I don't use my utility room it's fine.
Thanks for posting this very informative video. I am looking to replace an old oil fired water heater here in Nova Scotia.
two years later, still liking it? I'm thinking of buying. Thanks. Nice video.
Yep, still running great! It works so well I actually got rid of the electric backup tank last year.
Great video. I would highly using hot water when doing laundry. If not at the very least then use an extra rinse cycle. Even with high quality detergents ive found it best practice. Im an hvac service tech though except my father repaired appliances for 50 years before retiring from it. Obviously best to follow manufacturer recommendations especially if you bought a washer that only recommends to use cold water, Ive yet to ever to ever see 1 though.
I haven't found a need to use hot water. The cold water gets my laundry clean just fine. It saves energy and reduces shrinking of the clothing.
Thank you for the review. I'm considering this water heater for the 80 gallon version of this one. the house that I'm buying has a propane water heater which I'm sure is going to be much more expensive. my water heater will be in the garage and cooling the garage would be a good thing because I like to make wine and I'll keep my wine in the garage to keep it cool. thank you
Tell me if I’m wrong but I’m betting that this man is very savvy and conservative regarding water consumption.
Economical haircut?
Great review. The dehumidifying feature is the reason why I planned to go with a Hybrid over a traditional. Bummer to hear it doesn't work as well as I hoped.
Yeah I've had it over 3 months now and the bucket is still dry. I might try leaving the dehumidifier off next summer and seeing what humidity I get with just this running. I suspect it doesn't produce any condensate as the tank is already at a higher temperature when it kicks in vs when I first installed it and the water was 45F. That's just a guess though, I'm not a refrigeration expert :)
I have had excellent performance on the dehumidifying feature. When there is any humidity I've seen a lot of water flow out the drain line.
@@briangc1972 May I ask how you have it installed? Did you put it in a basement like I did? Is it a finished basement? Do you have another dehumidifier running and if yes, at what humidity setting?
@@LithiumSolar It is in my laundry room which is next to my kitchen. I have central air conditioning which is effectively a dehumidifier when it is running.
@@LithiumSolar When I put mine in my garage in Florida, my handyman initially just put a bucket under the condensate line. The next day it had filled the bucket so I was like, yea, I need you to come back and drill that hole in the wall to drip it outside.
thanks for the great video. i'm installing in off-grid setup as well, wondering what a typical 24 hour watt demand chart might look like for this unit. so i called the support centre, and they said the following: eco mode uses a combo of heating element and heat pump. all models will use either the element or the compressor, never both at the same time. heat pump mode does not use heating element. heat pump compressor cycles 3 times during a heat demand cycle, when it is on, it uses 1230 watts. still would be great to see daily real world figures broken over 15min intervals see how this unit behaves at nite, and just after a shower or two. many thanks.
You have a great review with the same observations as me. The reason it does not dehumidify very well is because it only cools the air aprox 10F on the delta t. Without rambling on this is why your hvac runs at a 20F delta T is for humidity. They seem to run a low delta T im sure its for energy savings of the unit itself.
Delta T doesn't actually matter. If it is in a closed room running at a delta T of 10 degrees, it will eventually bring the whole room down 10 degrees. Then the delta T is still 10 degrees, and it will continue to bring the temperature of the room down.
@@phillipsusi1791Yes for cooling this is true, dehumidification is a different story.
this thing sounds perfect to replace my hot water heater thats located in my hot garage in south florida. I get hot water and a little ac for the garage...win win
Yea, they are great in Florida.
It's 112° F here this evening - a little space cooling would be very helpful.
Dang, yeah I bet this would be super efficient in those kinds of temps!
Odd.. I have one of those down here in Florida, and here it is great. We have our water heaters in the garage, where it is hot and humid for almost all of the year ( we don't HAVE basements ), and it certainly does make the garage cooler and less humid. But if you are in the north and burning fuel in the furnace ( we don't have those in Florida either ) to heat the house, then a heat pump sucking the heat out of the air in the basement that is being heated by the furnace is not really going to be a good idea. If your furnace is burning natural gas to heat the house, it would be much better to have a gas hot water heater that burns the same gas to heat the water directly rather than having to spend electricity pumping the heat generated by the gas into the water. You also said that you have a second hot water tank in series with this one, after it, that is shut off. But that means that the water is sitting in that tank, cooling off, so you're going to end up with cooler water any time you haven't been using a lot of hot water lately. Unless you put in a recirculating pump to keep water moving back and forth between the two.
First to comment! Enjoy your battery, solar and now real life appliance application. Thank you 🎈
I live in South Orange County in Southern California. Utility rates here are the highest in the country. I have a 50 gallon gas water heater, and my gas bill has never exceeded $19 per month.
Nice.
Yea, I don't know how Calofirnians pay so much for electricity. If you are paying that much and have access to gas, you are better off sticking with that.
Thanks, learning more everyday
I purchased the 80 gallon one approximately two years ago and I wish I never did. One day if I am able to build a house, I will add tankless heaters instead.
I've actually had the thought the you could get the best of both worlds by using the heat pump tank to preheat the water to 100 F, then have a tankless unit to boost it the rest of the way closer to where it is used.
I have a 40 gallon electric and recently picked up two gas water heaters that were replaced on an insurance claim. I'm going to put one in my basement so I will have a choice between the two power sources. Currently electric is way more than natural gas. I don't think it's ever been less expensive. But I will have the option of either source. When I saw hybrid, I thought it was a dual gas/electric. I have never seen one and not sure if they even make that.
Love your videos, thank you!
Also: "if your humidity is pretty low, like 50% or so. . ." :D
That seems low to me. What do you keep your basement humidity at?
@@LithiumSolar Living in the desert, try to hover more around 30-35%. Would probably be difficult to get to that range in the south though.
Great video Mike. Very interesting heater that I have not seen too much of here in Australia.
Evoheat evo270 best heat pump hotwater system offered in Australia
thanks for the info. a lot of great information you shared. by the way fire the barber who messed up your sideburns.
3 kWh per day seems high for heat pump mode. In our area power is 40 cents per kWh, 3 kWh for 30 days would translate into $36 per month for water heating. Compared to gas, that is likely triple to four times higher.
I would not want want cold air dumped into the house during winter months. You are essentially using your central heating to heat the water. It might acceptable during summer months when the unit would actually assist with cooling.
I don't have heating in the basement.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends setting the water heater at no more than 120 degrees Fahrenheit (49 degrees Celsius) to prevent scalding.
I can't seem to reach a consensus as to why CPSC recommends 120F but so many others suggest 140F to kill legionella... Any ideas? :/
@@LithiumSolar I just looked at some Legionella bacteria control websites. One didn't mention water temp. Another said keep water above 50c or 122f. Most talked about chemicals. I don't think it's a big problem for most residences. The CPSC website says
The majority of injuries and deaths involving
tap water scalds are to the elderly and children
under the age of five. The U.S. Consumer
Product Safety Commission (CPSC) urges all
users to lower their water heaters to
120 degrees Fahrenheit. In addition to
preventing accidents, this decrease in
temperature will conserve energy and save
money.
Most adults will suffer third-degree burns if
exposed to 150 degree water for two seconds.
Burns will also occur with a six-second
exposure to 140 degree water or with a thirty
second exposure to 130 degree water. Even if
the temperature is 120 degrees, a five minute
exposure could result in third-degree burns
@@LithiumSolar I'm a microbiologist and you are right, your water heater should always be kept to 140F or around 60C. Legionella causes Legionnaire's disease when bacteria are "aerosolized" in water droplet such as a hot shower or any mist creation processes. Inhalation of those Legionella-containing water droplets can cause severe pneumonia, especially for people at risk.
The problem is not really colonization of your water heater, it's more that Legionella has been shown to survive temp up to 140F. Thus it can survive and then replicate in the pipes down your water heater. It also creates biofilms which makes it super hard to get rid of. In short, keeping your water heater to 140F acts to eliminate all bacteria in your water before you get in contact with them.
However, there's no gains in setting the temperature higher than 140F.
@@w6rr10r help me understand... how is Legionella still holding up in city chloramine water etc.
Awesome technology. I wonder how long it will be before you hook up a water space heater to the output as it will be cheaper to run than your existing heat.
That’s what a regular heat pump does
I run mine in eco mode, 125 degrees, Phoenix area... total electric operating cost for family of 3 is running $65/yr. Less than 1kwh per day in summer. ~2kwh in late fall thru winter. And if you want to use the scheduling function, it must be connected to the internet
What model and size do you have?
Thanks for the review.
Do you keep this in your basement? Depending on the location of your mechanical this tank will be more advantageous. This would be in my basement where it is cooler and wouldn't have any warm air for it to utilize.
I like the idea of having a small exchanger to help heat the water if there's any extra demand and not have to run a 220V outlet.
Also if your heat thermostat is on the floor above, then your heating system won't be affected nearly as much than if you had installed it on the ground floor where the thermostat is.
Correct. Thermostat is on the first floor. There is no heating in the basement (thus no thermostats).
@@LithiumSolar That works too. My basement is heated, but the thermostat is on the first floor.
I just had a 2021 80 gal Pro Terra heat pump water heater installed in my basement and we can here it in every room in the house. It’s loud. I’ve spent the last 2 days on hold trying to get in touch with Rheem’s hybrid water heater customer service. Still have yet to talk to anyone or get of my emails returned.. Terrible customer service!!
One reason why “traditional” water heaters are set at 160F is that bacteria have less of a chance of flourishing in that temperature.
Something to consider. Temperature and energy use vs. Safety.
Yeah I'm thinking of upping the temperature and installing a tempering valve. I don't understand why everything comes pre-set to 120F now, that seems way too low after everything I've read.
@@LithiumSolar I think it's probably because 120 F is considered the highest safe temperature without a tempering valve installed. If the default temperature is safe then Rheem can defend a law suit if someone gets scalded.
@@LithiumSolar They have lowered the water temperature because the compressor dies at the correct temperature.
@@mikenewman4078 Huh? Traditional water heaters default to 120 F as well because that temperature is safe ( in that it won't scald quickly ). I keep mine set at 125 because I like a long, hot shower. My wife on the other hand, does not like putting her hands in 125 water in the sink, even though it doesn't bother me ( I scrubbed pots and pans in a commercial kitchen for a while ).
Thanks for the follow up video.
Relative humidity is not a very meaningful metric. What really matters is the dew point. 65 degrees and 50% RH is a dew point of only 46 degrees. As long as nothing in the room is below the dew point (like the walls of your basement) it is adequately low. You could easily have a 55 degree dew point without issue. Your heat pump water heater will also be more efficient if it has some humidity to work on. I’d bet you could leave the dehumidifier off and you would find the water heater would keep the dew point sufficiently low.
I bought a Rheem heat pump hot water system several years ago. Unless they have drastically improved, I strongly recommend you do not waste your money on installing one. They are 4 times the price of a standard electric hot water system and are very poorly designed and built.
The thermostat used is suitable only for a resistive load and not covered by warranty when it inevitably fails. The condenser coils are in no way serviceable and the compressor lasts less than 4 years. Not worth repairing.
The COP of around 4 makes them look like a good idea energy wise but you will never get your money back due to short operating life.
The Rheem heatpump hot water system is the only system worse than a close coupled solar hot water system.
Much better value to add a few more solar PV panels and keep your resistive element system.
I am on my second Rheem Heat Pump water heater. They are dependable, but can be a little quirky. I check my settings each month. The user interface is clear and easy to understand. The units have a 10 year warranty. If your compressor failed after 4 years, then you should have exchanged it for a new free water heater; no repairs needed, just swap the entire unit. I had to replace mine after 9 years, but it was covered under the 10 year warranty, so it was free.
If you want to cut down on that sound possibly put it on a cushioned surface bigger rubber cushions underneath, and rap the pipes with insulation if not the whole pipe at least around the area going into the wall to cut down on vibration
Thanks for the video! I bought and installed one of these units because of your videos and I'm very happy with it so far :)
Am in the market to purchasing a Rheem's ProTerra and would love to hear a 2 year followup about your system.
It's still running great! It runs entirely on heat pump mode and I always have plenty of hot water. I even got rid of the old electric heater already. I am planning to do a follow-up here eventually but it may be a couple of months yet (sorry).
I'm a red seal Refrigeration mechanic and I'm telling you in the winter here if you also had electric heat it's going to be a one-to-one ratio. for every BTU of energy that you pump into that tank and store it and then use it, and drain it down the drain, you will need to replace that same BTU of energy with another one from your furnace.
If you have cheaper gas furnace then that's not a terrible trade if you have an electric furnace it's a one-to-one trade, your basically heating your water with electric heat in the winter
Personally I think they're a bad idea because when that thing breaks down you will need a proper Refrigeration guy who knows what he's doing to fix it and that's not cheap.
By time you calculate the added heating cost in the winter, plus the potential cost of breakdown when it will inevitably one-day breaks down you could basically just use a regular electric hot water tank and replace it every 10 years
I'm a systems administrator here and I'm telling you in the winter that the gigantic server rack full of equipment 30ft away is providing plenty of heat in the space of which this is installed. Thanks.
@@BeaverZer0 Everything I have read about heat pumps indicates that they are massively more efficient than regular electric (or gas). For every unit of energy it uses (whether you measure in kWh or BTU), a heat pump will return 3-4 times as much heat energy input than an electric (which is 1.0) or gas (high efficiency condensing units are about 0.9). Pure electric (resistive) water heaters are notorious for having *very* high operating cost (which will only get higher as electric rates rise). As far as breaking down, as long as you make sure the air coming into the heat pump is not loaded with particulates, there is no evidence that hybrid electric heat pump water heaters are less reliable than regular electric hot water heaters. And even if the heat pump goes on the fritz, you still have the electric resistance heating element(s), so you have a "regular" electric water heater built in to provide hot water until the service technician services the heat pump. And it has a 10 year warranty, the amount you save per month from the heat pump efficiency should *easily* more than pay for any service call after the warranty period.
@@gerrygreen3832 If the heat in the air that you are pumping into the water is free ( because it is coming from outside ), then yea, it is more efficient than a gas water heater. If you are burning gas to heat the air inside, then pumping that heat into the water, it isn't.
@@phillipsusi1791 Not true. Even if the air used by the HPWH (heat pump water heater) is heated by gas, you are still getting 3-4 more times energy (BTU, KW, whatever) efficiency *than if you used gas (directly) to heat the water* . IOW, the amount of gas "lost" by having to use more gas to heat the air used by the HPWH is only 1/3 to 1/4 of the amount of gas you would have to use to heat the same amount of water *directly* by a gas water heater.
Just checking to see if your still happy with this.
I wonder what the longevity is in regards to all of the electronic gizmos. It's a good thing to have your old tank as an emergency water heating source when this unit inherently fails at some point in the future - a when, not if scenario! I self installed a brand new Rheem 50 gallon natural gas water heater last year, probably about $900 with everything I bought including the heater itself, replacing a Rudd 40 gallon natural gas unit from 1988.
Todays gas water heaters will not last 35 years like that Rudd unit did.
The heat pump unit will probably last longer than a new gas unit because the way it heats water is gentler on the tank. The gas unit lights a fire under the tank at thousands of degrees. Eventually the tank cracks from the repeated expansion cycles. The heat pump has a radiator in the tank water. The radiator runs much cooler than a fire - less than few hundred degrees.
Also - home heat pumps last 30 years (which is the heart of this hot water heater).
@@paulweber624 Only time will tell. I know without a doubt in my mind that you'll experience some kind of a failure in much less than 30 years from now - most likely electronics related, that's my guess - and/or due to a refrigerant leak. Do you know where the unit was manufactured? Rheem's non-heat pump units are definitely made in Mexico according to the sticker.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists I put one in in Dec 2021 to replace the 17 year old gas unit that start leaked. Will check place of manufacture and get back with you.
@@paulweber624 Of course - the electric and natural gas heaters don't last like they used to either, because their steel has gotten thinner and thinner and so have their internal tank coatings. But none of them have the mega electronic mumbo-jumbo that these heat pump units do. You have to be aware that the more technical something becomes the more failure prone (and expensive to fix!) it becomes.
@@Guillotines_For_Globalists The unit was assembled in Mexico. And the parts made likely from everywhere. I suspect that's true for gas units as well, but did not check.
In terms of gas vs heat pump, if the heat pump lasts more than 6 years and LPG is the fuel, it was money ahead to do the heat pump where I live. If natural gas were an option (it isn't where I live) the savings was less than $200 a year, pushing the payback to over 12 years and making the choice more debatable. Ultimately though, moving heat is cheaper and cleaner than making heat.
LPG unit
-new (w/ venting blower) installed - $1600
- 300 gallons/year
- LPG 2.06 $/gal
- LPG $/year = $600
Heat pump unit
- new installed - $2200
- 1465 kWh/yr
- 0.135 $/kWh
- Electricity $/year = $200
I love the performance of mine. Unfortunately, the primary reason for this purchase was the advertised smart features (so I could bank excess solar thermal energy), and their app, eco-net, is just functionally useless. They abandoned it back in June 2021, leaving us without the advertised smart controls we paid for. Multiple contacts to developers and Rheem have been completely, 100% ignored. I really hope I won't need a warranty claim, because their 10 year warranty means nothing if they refuse to acknowledge their customers even exist.
Just got this installed this week. I agree the app seems lacking. Also agree that the Econet app hasn't been updated since 2021, but there is a Rheem Econet app (in Android) that was released in 2019 and last updated April 3, 2023. So you might want to try that. What I'm noticing is the available hot water shown in the app seems to be either empty, 1/3, 2/3, or full. Would like a better indicator.
Cost comparison: Tankless, traditional and this hybrid. Initial cost and running costs.