You have a very balanced and accurate review. I've owned a heat pump water heater for about 8 years now?, (ge geospring, red top). Fan for the heat pump had issues a few months ago and I just switched it to electric only mode as I've been very busy. But overall it's been a great water heater (I'm in florida), have been very happy with it.
Did you ever replace the fan? I have a grey top geospring in FL and the fan motor went out on me a few years ago and I am finally getting it replaced Monday.
I also have a GE Geospring hybrid, now 13 years old. The heat pump went out about 6 months ago and I've been using it with the heating elements only. The diagnostic menu said a fan was bad, even though both fans seemed to work fine using the troubleshooting menu. I replaced the fans anyway with no change...probably a problem with the fan controller on the motherboard. I'm now looking at replacing it with a Bradford White (made in USA).
Our oil tank, with indirect fired hot water heater died las August, just as we were traveling for vacation. When we came back, I decided that I was done with oil and we got a geothermal system, along with a heat pump hot water heater. So far, the heater has been great. I'm actually looking forward to the summer to see if it will air condition our basement and we can run the geo down there less. I am SO HAPPY that I no longer have to think about what are the current oil prices, did I run out of oil, etc., etc. Our boiler was already loud and we were used to that and the combo of our geo and heat pump is much more quiet, so I see nothing but upsides for it. I absolutely could have installed it myself, but since I was already getting the geo installed as well and since we get the 30% federal rebate, it was a no brainer to let them do it.
That's awesome. I think geothermal is also the most efficient type of HVAC heat pump system you can get right now? The COP's are really high on them. Glad the numbers worked too, especially with that 30% tax credit (uncapped to boot right?)
@@zoltanpaplanos4686 Hybrid water heater/ heat pump. Mine is ao smith brand. I got the 40 gallon. I've left it in heatpump only mode, although it has heating elements. I did originally have it left at 125 degrees or so. Recently increased it to 130 as recommended for bacteria purposes as my water is from a well.
Good video. Another consideration, if converting from a gas fired water heater, is electric service for the heat pump unit. Many require a 240V/30A type of circuit for those with the aux. heating elements. There are some models that omit those elements and may be able to run off a 120V 15-20A circuit. But in an older house, like mine, w/ 100A electric service, and a small breaker panel (that's full), adding another 240V circuit might require a panel upgrade at a minimum and a 200A service upgrade most likely. In my case, I'll be sticking with a gas fired condensing tankless heater. I had an 80% reduction in my gas bill when I swapped out the old tank type heater. And with the insane California Climate Credit program, where I live, I've not paid a natural gas bill since 2018 since I get more in credits than I use in gas.
Thanks for the fair and honest video on the HPHWT set ups. I had some money to spend, and thought about a HP HWT, but my current tank is not very old, electric, I figure it can run a few more years. The whole Heat Pump discussion took me to looking at Ductless and Ducted HP's for my entire house -2400Sqft and it turned out that I could get a HP mini split ducted unit that cools my entire house all summer, and heats it in spring and fall - installed last spring, and I can say this cost about the same, but saved me a lot more money right away. I will still look at a HP HWT in a few years, hope to see the price of them come down.
I installed my Rheem unit myself and I love it ! One unexpected benefit to my unit that is installed in my garage is that my tools are a lot less rusty. It keeps the humidity level down in the garage.
I have had my Rheem heat pump water heater for two years. I am very happy with it. My electric KW/hr. consumption every month dropped by nearly 1/2 over the previous year when my old electric tank was in operation.
One other thing, they aren't common in the USA yet, but there are heat pump water heaters that function more like a Mini-split with an outdoor unit so it solves the room size and noise issues.
Excellent units, but expensive even when you can find them here in the US. You can literally DIY this for a fraction of the price and it's more efficient as well. Saw a cool video by @ne7s29 doing exactly this and the results are impressive to say the least. Requires a bit of know-how and mechanical aptitude, but there's no shortage of information available here and elsewhere on the web to that end.
@@NateInTX We just got one installed as part of our geothermal install. I could have absolutely installed it myself. It needs 30amp power and your typical water inlet and a hot water output. It needs an expansion tank and a drain. Any DIYer could install one in three hours tops.
Are you talking about SANCO2 split systems? Very interested in putting the outdoor part of that in my hot garage, but the online manual makes very clear that no warranty exists unless installed by a licensed professional. That makes the payback period too long (for me).
So i have had a Rheem Heatpump water heater now for 6 years or so. I live in NJ and its in my basement which in winter gets very cold ( old home) . Zero issues. Love the fact that it has a awesome app that allows switching modes in schedule daily . I run 3 different modes daily to satisfied our needs and save money.
One concern maybe about ducting the WH. Typically, propeller type fans are not designed for static resistance; which ductwork represents. So ducting off the WH might not work too well. I installed one and to my surprise it was (IIRC) 75" tall. I got so lucky, because many basements in my are couldn't handle that height. (A standard elec is 58")
Bringing up static pressure on ducted heat pumps is quite astute. I’ve never thought about that but makes total sense. Depends on your ductwork and length, etc. but ducting out here in CO is a common strategy these days.
Good review. I purchased a Rheems in 2020 - installed it myself. Starting having issues with it after 6 months - and found out that no one in my area would perform warranty work on it. I did all the work - an finally they said the unit is bad and needs to be replaced. Took it back to Home Depot - swapped it after some back and forth about management there - install the 2nd one - again - I'm doing all the work - and have had no problems with it so far. Not sure I would do it again. I'm retired and my wife and I just don't use that much hot water - so the savings are like $20 - $25 per month. Like you I installed mine in the garage (North Carolina) - but I ran a 8 inch duct up into the attic to pull attic air into the unit. In summer the temp in the attic easily hits 120+ degrees in the afternoon - an that's the only time I let the heat pump run...under those ideal conditions I can heat water in little more than an hour. In winter - if attic is say 50 degrees - it takes almost 3 hours...also I use Home Assistance to manage the Rheems - so I don't need or have configured the wifi cloud component...with this interface I can actually see the temp of the water - something I the cloud/app did not provide...
Great vid. "Your quote might look bigger" is the understatement of the year =). Water heater install companies salivate at the opportunity to canibalize your rebates. I've gotten quotes from $5k to $8k here in the Bay Area. And the ones that will "handle" your rebate process will still walk away whole + take your rebates. So, installer greed is f'ing everything up. I finally decided to buy the unit at HD, on sale, + a $900 rebate via golden state. Will use a local plumber that charges by the hour to help with the heavy lifting.
We recommend a 65-gal HPWH as a replacement for a 40-gal gas WH, and a 80-gal HPWH to replace a 50-gal gas WH, to get similar first hour delivery. If you are concerned about noise you can use a split unit like the Sanden Sanco and have the noisy part outside, but be prepared to spend 2x for it
@@AttainableHomeI wonder if a better option would have been to use the same size, but set the water temp to 140+ and use a mixing valve to output 12x degree hot water?
@@jwhite4 This would be an interesting calculation. I think I mentioned upsizing because if you look at the actual electric usage (EnergyGuide labels too) from the heat pump itself it's really a small delta for the different sizes. In our BPI Energy Auditor training they also tell us that 120 deg is the ideal temp for most households and the most efficient, but I think that could be antiquated perhaps with the newer heat pump systems. I guess these are all good questions and to be figured out!
@@AttainableHomeI did a spot check of Home Depot prices for my Rheem Proterra. 50gal is $1859 (up from $1699 when I got mine Apr 2023). 80 gal is $2229. $370 more. That would appear to be more than the cost of a mixing valve. There's installation if you are hiring a plumber; but then a plumber might charge more to deal with the larger & heavier 80 gal tank vs 50 gal. It also needs more room. But yes, I'd think it would be an interesting comparison, especially if the cost to operate is similar.
@@AttainableHome: Keeping the water at JUST 120 is the more efficient, albeit riskier option. No matter how well insulated, the heat will always seep back out from the tank; and the bigger the delta between the water inside and the air outside, the faster that occurs. Granted, that may only end up being an extra 25-minute run cycle of the HP element per day, but it’s still putting more wear and tear on the moving parts. The biggest risk of going too low, we all know is Legionaries Disease. As for me, in East Central Illinois, my plan for when I do get one is to keep the same tank size as my 1980s era gasser, and just crank the heat to its max; let the thermostatic mixing valve keep it to the mandatory 120.
I have a true heat pump outdoor unit that runs into my utility room. There, I have two tanks.. one for warm water and one buffer tank for the underfloor heating/cooling of the house. A little software IO box determens the flow of the water and whether the outdoor compressor needs to kick in for heating or cooling. For instance, if the hot water is running low (350 liters), it will activate the outdoor compressor to heat up the water flow of the system and transfer it to the heat-exchange coils in the hot water tank. This way the compressor water never touches the hot water directly preventing contamination. The system also has a resistive backup heater that runs about 3x 230v 16A to supply realtime water should the tank get too cold and to do a weekly anti-legionella cycle to kill any germs in the hot water tank. The system can also divert hot water into the underfloor heating piping throughout the house, allowing it to heat the entire house in cold winters with just 30c. In summer, the compressor can work in reverse to capture cold air and supply colder water (18c) into the house, allowing it cool down a bit without having ACs running. The outdoor compressor is big but not too loud at all. It's on the corner of my garden and I barely hear it. Plusside is that when it's running at high capacity it's often freezing outside so you're safely inside, not hearing a thing. So the whole system is an outdoor compressor/heatpump unit --> logic board and automated valves redirecting flow of water --> two tanks for hotwater/heating and cooling of subfloor piping. Only downside to this system is that all the warm water is quite a way away from the main house so it takes a while for warm water to hit your faucet. We've installed a little boiler in the attic above the bath room so it gets warm water in matter of seconds. It's about 35 liter so it's just to balance that initial burst of hot/cold water. In the kitchen we still have to wait a bit for hot water.. I might install an undersink boiler or one of those cooking-water-faucets that have a boiler built-in. I was kind of shocked by the energy usage of this system. In a winter month we used about 1800kWh (excluding the EV).. that's total house power though but given we used to do about 250 a month, I'm guessing the system used about 1500kWh for a cold month of heating/warm water. Quite a jump but if you compare that to the natural gas usage this house used to have in cold winters and the cost of gas these days in Europe, this system is astronomically cheaper. We didn't do it to save money (the whole install wasn't cheap) but mostly to get off natural gas. We even had the piping infrastructure for gas removed so we're now 100% electric. We already have some solar but might expand it a bit more. Net metering is a state of flux here so maybe, maybe not.
Very interesting approach for home heating/cooling. Wondering if this approach can be adapted for the homes where under the floor piping is not possible. May be using a heat exchanging coil , like an evap coil, in each of the room may work to heat/cool the room. Another optimization I can think of is to heat/cool the water reservoir during the day when you have your roof top solar panels producing energy - sort of using water mass as a battery - and utilize stored energy in the night for heating/cooling without drawing significant power from the grid. Will you mind sharing details of the installer of your system ?
I recently got a AOSmith one installed, but can't find much info on how the home automation port works. Once I can figure that out I want to set it up so it only runs at night when hydro is cheaper. I'm thinking of just using a contactor to turn the whole unit off in the day then back on at night, but since it has electronics in it and a compressor I'm not sure if it's a good idea to do that. For now I'll leave it as is so I can get a baseline of what my hydro bill increases by, and my gas bill decreases by, and at least if I do decide to do something I'll then be able to tell how much it improved things.
I have a Rheem ProTerra I installed by myself last year. One major PITA not mentioned is that at least the Rheem, and I think some others, relocate the cold and hot water to the side of the tank (since the heat pump sits on the top). So whereas with standard element heaters, with H & C outlets on the top, it's maybe minor plumbing to get them connected (none if you use flexible hoses). With these, it's major plumbing work. My concern (mentioned in the video and below) is reliability. I never had a gas electric or standard electric HWH that needed a repair (excluding replacement of the anode). But I've seen lots of people mention faulty parts (again on the Rheem). Nice that they provide them for free under with 10yr parts warranty. But its not a trivial task to replace them.
Agree on these points, thanks for sharing. In both houses I moved the location of the water heaters completely (both to better locations in the garage and out of the house) so there was some extra plumbing work anyway, but I wouldn't say it was a massive deal in the end. The reliability risk is definitely elevated with these as well. I wonder how they compare to tankless reliability.
Appreciate the info. I have had mine 3 years on my new house. I got no rebates or tax incentives when I installed being a new unit and not a replacement. I would do it all over again. We never run out of hot water, but there is two of us and the tank is 80 gallons. I would encourage everyone to go as big as your space will allow. It doesn’t cost a tremendous amount more. The install is no harder than a normal water heater, however, you do have to have a drain line, enough space or makeup air as you described. I would be very careful about where you placed any ducts outside the envelope of your home. Consult and experienced hvac tech(I am) to make sure you are not causing heating/cooling and moisture issues. Best place for these are in a garage. Second best place is in a semi-conditioned attic, even though water heaters in attics concern me. Has to be done right and make sure you get the auto shutoff water valve option on it if you have a leak. They do him a little, but not too bad in my opinion.
If they are installed with copper piping rather than PEX the noise tends to transmit through the piping. Have you done a comparison to gas water heaters,
This is easily mitigated by utilizing vibration dampening mounts/pads and strapping, and none are more effective than Sorbothane, a viscoelastic polymer used by NASA to protect space shuttle cameras during launch. 📄
My Rheem heat pump water heater just installed a month ago. it has a super annoying high-pitched ringing sound and I have to figure out what to do about it because I can't live with that.
Misleading on the downsides the benefits outweigh these “negatives” by a huge margin. It takes a moment to plan ahead because it’s not a regular water heater it’s different technology. Here are a few ideas that will help. Place the tank near places where there is WASTE HEAT, like a dryer, fridge, server closet. This reduces the need for required cubic space. Keep your old tank and use connect them together with a recirculation pump. This will let you get away with a slightly cheaper/smaller unit while giving you a higher capacity. You will never run out of hot water. I am an Energy Advisor and have many more “tips” for your emery systems. Don’t let these sensationalist naysayers discourage you from doing the right thing for your wallet and the planet.
My situation was ideal, I bought a foreclosure and the net cost was the same as a standard, 6 years in no issues. I also dump my dryer into the utility room in the winter recycling the heat.
BIGGEST downside not mentioned: Wi-Fi connection, more like no connection. These are smart devices, and to gain even more efficiency is best to set a schedule, the problem is they are Wi-Fi only. Depending on location and other Wi-Fi devices it will take a effort to set up, possibly moving bases, worst case install another Wi-Fi base, and even then STILL have the connection drop. Even if you do not schedule, having alerts to issues with tank will be ideal to know when something needs fixing. It will be a non issue for the manufactures offer an Ethernet port with the Wi-Fi and massively improve reliability with that backup.
Running out of hot water is not really a thing for any water heater so long as a thermostatic mixing valve installed, which allows the water heater to store energy more efficiently at higher temperatures, since it requires less stored water to produce the desired setpoint.
If people are taking normal showers, no one should ever run out of water if they have a 50 gallon tank. Worst case scenario, you outpace it a tad and the electric elements have to kick on. But the average shower is 8 minutes long. If you have a 2 gallon show head and you have it on 50% hot water, that's a gallon a minute. If we're generous and say you take a 12 minute shower, that's only 6 gallons of hot water being used. For a family of 4, even if the first person takes a shower, then does a load of laundry AND starts the dishwasher, you should be fine. We got one installed in November, we're a family of 4 and so far we haven't come close to running out of wter.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403: Just one minor oversight there; the water you have to run to get hot water to the tap (assuming you don’t have a recirculating valve, which most people don’t even know what they are). For my house, that’s 6 gallons for the tub and 20 for the kitchen/laundry room. Needless to say I’m planning to put a small tank in the laundry room to get that down.
2:19 The flip side of that is, and you kind of alluded to this, it has a built-in backup system. If the heat pump fails you still have the traditional elements to heat your water. After 8 years of flawless service, my GE GeoSpring finally had an issue when the heat pump stopped coming on. I switched it from heat-pump only mode to electric only mode. It has a 10 year warranty so all it took was a phone call and they sent me a new capacitor which I was able to change out myself in just a few minutes. At no point did we not have hot water.
Also hold off if you can, wait for HEEHRA to get funded in your State then you could get up to $1,950 toward a Heat Pump Water Heater as a Point of Sale Rebate depending on your income level, the 30% tax credit is nice, but it's NOTHING next to the HEEHRA where if your household income is 80% or less the Median Household Income for your area or like up to half the cost if you are 81-150%.
I’m in a cold northern climate and i have no issues in the winter. There is no noise to speak of. I noticed it initially but it’s like asking if you notice your fridge noise. Energy use before was standard electric water heater. Now it’s 1-4 kw per day. Significantly less. No issues installing. I can easily power it with my generator now. The heat pump only uses 200w. There were no credits when I bought mine 3-4 years ago. It’s already paid for itself in energy saving compared to my old one twice. Our use is 1-4 showers per day and it rarely runs out of water. I say go for it. It’s a no brainer.
Only downside I've experienced with my A.O smith hybrid is reliability. I'm on my 3rd one in 5 years, replaced for free each time as they have 10 year warranties. When they work they are fantastic
I asked the plumbing department at the biggest home building center in our area how many heat pump water heaters they have sold in the last year. They said only one. The price of natural gas is too low right now. So there is no economic reason to upgrade even with rebates and tax credit. We have ductless multi zone mini-split heat pump and it's great but I think we are going to hold off on upgrading our water heater.
Well, I love my heat pump water heater. It failed after 8 yrs and the mfr replaced for free, and I paid $150 for labor. I thought that was fantastic. While waiting a few days for the new one, I could still use the electric element for hot water. I think it's a good choice for a lot of folks.
That is not a good thing , had one installed for a customer and the hot water output nipple corroded off and they are not a screwed in nipple so that was the end of the water heater
Hello, this video on your heat pump hot water heater is interesting. Just keep in mind. The heat pump works better in colder environment. in the southern climate, if you really want to save money, it has worked for me. I have owned five houses and utility bills is always the top issue. I started adding 110. tankless units under the sink in the bathroom I used a 220 unit in the kitchen with the dishwasher and for the sink changed over to a tankless hot water heater just for the shower/ Bath which it was 240 these four items were the same price for buying a 60 gallon hot water tank. Or a heat.pump tank you will save more money this way on energy bills,consider as a option. Thank you for the video.
I think that these are great units and many potential upsides. Florida (I'm a native) and Nevada where I live now are two sunny spots most of the year. Gas is standard here in most cases and have two gas fired water heaters one 75 gallon and a 50 gallon. In addition which is more important is solar hot water heating and this is the bulk of my water heating unless I empty the solar tank taking long showers or filling the spa at night. Unfortunately for most, space can be an issue and am fortunate enough to have a dedicated utility room for all that. Hopefully things that will be covered in these videos is sufficient insulation and "European" windows which are rare here and expensive but well worth it. The other are mini split or ducted mini split systems for HVAC. We have to face facts that here in the United States, builders and building codes are pretty weak when it comes to energy efficiency.
OK, so how do I vent them in a closet inside the house, so weird or backwards...looks like you might need to duct it out somewhere? 10 by 10 closet that is almost a bedroom size...
If it's just a utility closet you could do something as simple as replace the door with a curtain or cut a hole in the door and install a vent in there and near the ceiling. If there is other equipment in the closet the waste heat from that equipment may be enough to keep the water heater decently efficient. The water heater will still work in a cooler room, it will just be less efficient (but still more efficient than a resistive heater). It may end up that it's a better idea to find efficiency in your whole system elsewhere too, depending on how much engineering would need to be done to make it work efficiently.
Yeah, it's true that somehow it'll need airflow. If I'm in a warmer climate like FL or Texas or in the south, I'd be happy to vent it outside. If up north or colder climates, it probably makes sense to keep it vented indoors and in conditioned space, even though it's using essentially warmer air from the HVAC. Would be interesting to run numbers on that comparison.
Would it make sense to run a duct from the cool air output of the water heater to floor level behind the fridge in the kitchen, and another from ceiling level behind the fridge back to the room with the water heater? I figure the fridge makes hot air, so sending it to the water heater would allow the water heater to make use of the waste heat, and sending the cool air from the water heater to the fridge would make the fridge run more efficiently.
I like this idea, if it’s not too much construction and demo work etc. Both units (fridge and water heater heat pumps) are sort of so efficient that you may only see a $10-20 per year energy savings I might guess, but it would be an interesting project to track savings in for sure.
@@AttainableHome The other idea I had is that there are a lot of things like food and medicine that say to store them in a cool, dry place. Putting the water heater in a pantry and insulating the walls might make sense.
Good video! A tiny correction: A conventional water heater does have a couple of moving parts: The thermostats physically flip the circuit on and off. Personally, my issue with them seems to never be covered: I am a single man living alone, so my hot water usage is significantly lower than the "family of four" that seems to be what people like to reference. How do I know what my payback period actually is? And, BTW, that leads to the problem of "how much power is my water heater using?", which turns out to be harder to answer than one might wish!
Unfortunately I live in the Midwest, the water temperature going into my house is 52 to 54°. When I lived in the south the water temperature was roughly 60 to 65. It works better and warmer weather and it saves you a hell of a lot more energy costs. I do use it here in Indiana. only for my bathroom sinks, which I have easy access to wire into the GFI outlets and Plus hidden under the cabinet no wasting water flow to warm up its instantly. Energy cost as lot cheaper, if you build a house, instruct the electricians to put outlets under the sink it is more efficient and I had mine in my house for almost 8 years now.
I have one in New England and it works absolutely fine with the colder water. It might take a bit longer to heat the water, but the recovery efficiency is very good with cold water. The strategy I used was to get the largest one that would physically fit, run it at 150F and have a thermostatic mixing valve. If you have a large enough effective supply then the slower recovery is less important as you rarely actually run out of hot water.
I live in central Indiana and installed a heat pump water heater almost 2 years ago. It's been working flawlessly. It has a "high demand" setting which easily allows it to keep up, if/when you use more than your normal amount. In another year of service, I will have saved enough on electricity over a standard hot water heater than I paid to get the heat pump. Incoming water temp of 52 to 54 is not a problem, at all.
6:22 you mention that these might be installed in conditioned space in the north, but another downside is they are literally just removing the heat you paid for with your heating system. It's not magic, the heat came from somewhere. So it may look like the heatpump is efficient all by itself, but when you're just stealing BTUs from the house to heat the water with, the COP drops from maybe the advertised 3 to an effective 1 at best. Even when installed in a basement, most of the heat is just coming from the floor above and for every degree you drop the basement temp, you're adding additional load to the heating system to keep up. It works a little if you really insulate the first floor from the basement and keep the basement walls uninsulated trying to use some geothermal heat, but then the incoming air is at less than 50 degrees and the COP isn't what's advertised anyway. On the other hand, if you need to run a dehumidifier all summer long in the basement to keep it dry, it certainly cancels out that energy usage. For me, heating the water with gas in the winter and a HP in the summer would be ideal, but honestly we only pay $12/month for water heating to begin with, so it's a tough sell no matter what the incentives look like. In warmer climates, totally different story.
@hrcnick11 No, because refrigerators aren't rated in COP. And refrigerators don't steal cold, they pull the heat energy from the inside and pump it out. But, yes, your air conditioner does have to remove the extra heat it makes in the summer.
@@scottkolaya2110yes they are. They might not be labelled with their COP but of course that they have one. Refrigerators move heat from inside them to your house so, he's point is still valid as a refrigerator running will warm up a room that you are paying to cool down.
If I could go back, I'd still install a heat pump water heater, but I would size up and install an 80-gallon water heater rather than a 60-gallon water heater to offset for the slower recovery time.
I have a heat pump water heater and this video is very accurate. Unfortunately after one year, I had a temperature sensor break on the water heater. Rheem sent a replacement one pretty quickly but then I had to install it myself. After 3-4 months something else broke and I haven't had the time to call the warranty so I've been running it in electric mode.
If I'm not mistaken, these units have the same conventional heating elements at the same wattage as the equivalent standard electric water heater. If the heat pump section "gets behind" the conventional elements will kick in (in the order determined by the thermostats) and heat your water. You should not have to pay extra money to compensate by buying a larger unit. If you are running out of hot water, your unit is simply undersized for the usage in your household.
You’re correct that they have the traditional heating elements along with the heat pump. It would be interesting to run the calculations on having that kick in when hot water gets low vs a bigger tank where pretty much only the heat pump ever runs. Every time the heating element kicks in you’re losing on the energy savings, unfortunately.
Good question. Totally depends on the natural gas (therm) price vs electric in your area. In general here in Colorado even with low gas rates it would cost about double to run gas vs heat pump water heater here.
One major downside is that you will not get hot water during a power outage like I do with my gas water heater. Also you are effectively running AC in your house as you are pulling the heat from your house. Fine in the summer, but not so good in the winter. The heat is effectively being pulled from your house heater.
If you have a refrigerator, you are effectively running a heater all year in your kitchen. If you have it in a garage or basement, I doubt you'll notice a temperature difference in your living space.
@@billvojtech5686 I am in complete agreement with you about refrigerators heating your kitchen. If you live in a climate with more warm days than cold it is nice to have your refrigerator outside. I have one frig inside for convenience, but our extra frig and chest freezer are outside for that very reason. If your fridge uses 200W that is effectively like running a 200W resistive heater. Heat pump water heaters are much more extreme in energy use.
I don’t think it’s 200W resistive heat with a 1:1 ratio, more or less like a toaster, is how you wrote that. Refrigerators have heat pumps and by definition they transport heat, they don’t create it. A 200W fridge heat pump (including heat pump water heaters) are incredibly efficient at moving this heat around to do its job.
@@AttainableHome You are correct that a 200W heat pump can moved up to 600W of heat under ideal conditions, but that heat needs to come from somewhere. Ideally you pull it from outside, but if you pull it from inside your house your house heater needs to provide the surplus. Heat pumps just use energy to move heat, but they use energy which generates their own heat in the process. A fridge pulls heat from the inside the box and dumps it to your house. In the process it heats up your house. That is why you can't cool your house by leaving the fridge door open. I was talking about a heat pump that uses 200W. I am an Engineer and not an HVAC professional, but physics is physics.
Family of 2 here. We have a whole house electric tankless hot water heater (29kw). It's likely marginally more efficient than a tank. My home energy monitor says I spend $21/mo on average for hot water. Using your data of 75% less cost than an tank electric, it's maybe 60% less cost than tankless (ish?). Assuming this, I would spend about $13/mo with a heat pump. And save $96/yr. My electric rate is 18.7/kwh (total bill divided by kwh). Saving thousands a year seems wildly optimistic.
I looked into replacing my rental gas water heater a few years ago. Electricity is cheap here and there are only normally two adults in the house, heat pump heaters are expensive, gas with a exhaust fan are noisy and for a quarter of the price of a gas unit I bought a 40 gallon electric resistance heater which is problem free and quite.
I live in Southern California where gas rates are high and have owned the same 50 gallon gas fired water heater for over 20 years. My gas bill has never been over $19 per month.
Not a down-side, but check 1) whether you need a permit and 2) whether you are allowed to DIY it. My homeowners insurance required proof of the permit, the inspection and the certified pro install.
A handy individual could install an "air to water swimming pool heat pump" and a circulation pump to circulate heated water through a conventional water heater tank.
Our local leading plumbing company here in Phoenix, run by a guy named "Parker" and his "sons," quoted me ~$8K to install a top-of-the-line 50gal Rheem ProTerra hybrid water heater. I bought the unit for ~$1900 and installed it myself. New pan, some pex and connectors... the whole project cost me
another downside you probably have yet to encounter is the AOSMITH is just consumer grade junk, 2 years in before i got Error 120 (reads ECC 120 on the display) and it has an obnoxiously loud beep like smoke detector decibel level unless you reset the circuit breaker every day. If you talk to customer service after some headache maybe you'll get a new unit or compressor replacement. Changes nothing in the inevitable failure rate of the compressor. It's clearly garbage if they are all failing so prematurely. I see others in the comments mentioning Rheem isn't much better. So don't expect to get quality equipment from your local home center. There ARE quality heatpump water heating systems out there.
Very weak arguments for downside, Most have 10 years parts warranties, you dont need contractors to install, any homeowner nothing different than a standard unit, If in warm weather climates they will pay for themselves in less than two years, noise is a non issue if in garage even then its very quiet. Had one here in florida for 9 years and the savings over a standard version are huge, over $45 a month
Not everyone lives in Florida ! HUGE differences if you can’t locatein garage, or have cold winters. And the nosie issue is out there -many many report on utube. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY services these units ! Plumbers wont touch the heat pump (whcih is what fails ost often) and HVAC guys are clueless and disinterested . ALSO NB almost all these teas rebates/credts etc do NOT apply to new builds.
That all should be stated then, not very effective in cold climates, not recommended if installed in living area. With ten year warranty the manufacturer services them, if they can’t fix them they replace them. All of that should be explained, not just blanket statements that these are bad for everyone. Like I said for people in warm weather climates who have these installed in their garage are beyond great, they sip energy compared to the standard ones.
I spend 10 dollars a month for my hot water from a 15 years old 40 gallon gas heater, a new one is 560 dollars.I guess if you dont have a gas option, house is all electric , then maybe yes.
One more complaint. We live in Washington State. Our state is pushing this technology on us. Down side is, if you are new construction, you don't get any energy rebates because you are required to install this technology. If you are replacing an existing hot water tank in an existing home, you get the rebates. It's like e are being discriminated against because we are building a new home. The rebate should be available to all.
With all the moving parts and extra electronics they will not last as long as a conventional, so how does this safe money when it needs to be replaced more often?
I think there is an assumption that they MAY not last as long, but we don't know for sure. Heat pump technology has been around a long time and is not new. In my two projects I saved over $500 per year in electricity alone, which adds up real fast.
I’ve had mine for more than 15 years. I run as conventional during winter and as heat pump during summer. If the heat pump should stop working and not be repairable - it would still work as conventional. With rebates I paid same price as conventional so it was a no-brained decision.
@@AttainableHome That $500 a year comes down to less than $42 a month, which might not be worth it for the hassles these things can cause. I'm debating on just getting a high quality water heater instead. I'm guessing that would save me a fortune over my 16 year old unit without all the other problems these heat pump units have.
They also allow you to control the water temperature, which most conventional heaters do not. Useful, if you have long runs of hot water pipe, where the heat is lost. One installation issue of note: make sure the exiting pipes are insulated else you will lose heat from the hot water to the frigid air that the heat-pump is circulating in the space. Of course, if you vented the heat pump to the outside, this won't be such a problem.
I have had one for over a decade now. It's really NOT a complicated device. It is basically just a regular old electric hot water heater with a small window A/C unit bolted to the top of it. Except the little window AC doesn't send the heat outside, instead it just sends it into the tank to heat the water. And just like a window A/C, the basic technology behind it is well proven and decades old. They are stupidly efficient, the cut your electric usage by about 4/5ths over a conventional unit.
Just remember, it pulls the heat from the room to do its magic. So, the colder your climate, the more of the savings are being paid for with heating the room. No such thing as a free lunch!
I've had two. A GE and then the Rheem. When they work great, love them. Will I buy another one after the Rheem? No. I'm beyond sick of appliances that are not easy to DIY repair. One service call will wipe out any energy savings you get in a year. The biggest problem has been the app and the tank software. The rheem software for the tank controller has been buggy as well as the web app. I'll be adding a solar water heater to my system and replacing the heatpump with a standard tank after it dies.
Seems like a lot more trouble than it is worth. Like usual, the technology is good enough yet. They always say it's way more efficient, but depending on your situation the heat pump is stealing heat from the inside of your home, making your furnace work harder, which I doubt is factored into the efficiency of the hp water heater.
I assume you mean isn’t? If the heat pump is outside your home (or building envelope, as we call it), then it makes total sense. It sounds like you’re in a more northern/heating climate. In Colorado here it can still make sense, even if it takes a little indoor air to do the job.
How is heating the air in your house to heat your hot water more efficient than just heating the water? When the tank fails, fills with sediment, throwing away a perfectly good heat pump is not "better for the environment". The design should be changed so that the heat pump is a separate unit from the tank and they should have to be vented to the outside of the home. The other question is, when did air conditioning become so energy efficient? I thought it was a drain on the electric grid.
There are many considerations for sure. The short answer is that using heat pump technology, the efficiency of it is multiples more than just heating water traditionally with coils/elements etc. This goes into coefficient of performance (COP) and other metrics. It's basically so efficient that it can make up for the other losses you speak of. Not only with water heating but with HVAC systems too now.
@AttainableHome I am aware of COP. My point is you are robbing Peter to pay Pual. You heat the air in your home and then the heat pump uses that heated air to heat the water for your domestic hot water supply. That's like putting a hole in your wall. It's one thing is you live in a warm climate but for me venting outside would be the best choice, problem is temperatures hit 30 below in the winter when heat pump COP goes up to one, or greater.
@@stuartbrock7586These are not for everyone, or every situation, that’s what’s throwing you off. These are great for unconditioned spaces, like garages, attics, and basements. If you stick it in the middle of your house, it’s kinda pointless, maybe it will help keep you cool in the summer.
What is the original way you heated your water? If it’s a conventional tank, yes you’re robbing from the HVAC, but overall it’s still all so much more effective/efficient it can still make sense. Would be curious to run real numbers on it all.
How long before that evaporator plugs up with dust, the filter is nit going to catch it all, and you have to be very dilligent in cleaning that. If you miss cleaning, your efficiency is going to drop likeca rock.
I still fail to understand how running motors, compressors and fans, even at 90% efficiency is more economical than direct resistance heating when resistance heating is 100% electrically efficient.
This is a great question. I'm learning more and more about the engineering of all this every day, but my understanding is the main difference is that resistance heating is creating heat, whereas heat pumps are moving heat. It's much more efficient to transfer vs create. And this is why heat pumps can be 3-6X more efficient. Maybe someone else can chime in on this!
Because you are not creating heat. You are moving it. The heat is pumped from outside the unit inside. The amount pumped can easily by 4 to 5x the amount of energy needed to pump it. It is limited by the Carnot cycle.
@@jstaffordii You better re-study your physics because energy is not created from nothing, it's lost. You may want to study electrical energy usage of machinery and heat transfer also. They have been trying the net energy gain with cold fusion and so far it does not work either. Otherwise your car's fuel tank would fill up as you drove it. Right?
@@jamesspash5561 it's called COP. The energy required to relocate heat with a heat pump is 1/3-1/4 the requirement of resistance heat. No physics lesson required. The energy usage meter shows the kwh difference . 1 kwh of energy produces 3-4 kwh of equivalent heat with a heat pump. Have owned a HPDHW for 7 years. The DOE data plate on old resistance heater was 664 kwh annual, the DOE data plate on the HPDHW is 212 kwh annual usage for the same amount of hot water produced. That's 3 to 1.
If the fan is constantly running how many watts is that and how much kilowatts per hour is that using? For those on solar every watt counts. Something sounds fishy about heat pumps I can't put my finger on it. I know the media is pumping it up heat pump this heat pump that. The fan is constantly running. Hmmm...
I see you had one of your hot water heater is cord connected hopefully that was just for testing purposes? It's definitely not a good idea. to have A hot water heater cord connected. It's intended to be hardwired permanent installation. Awesome video I have the reliant Eco net 50 gallon, hot water heater installed in my basement pipe the discharge to the basement floor pipe the intake to the basement ceiling I have a connected to my home assistant. The energy savings is phenomenal. It replaced the propane. Gas 50 gallon hot water heater to the tune of over $1000 in savings in gas alone…..
@@Obtuse94 The downside to the plug-in 110V units is that they're usually not hybrids and thus don't have the secondary heating elements in the tank. Even a 20A 110V outlet isn't going to be able to provide the current a standard 4500 watt element requires.
I won’t touch heat pump hot water systems just to expensive for savings. Standard electric heater run by solar panels far better proposition for myself. Superior and far cheaper to do it that way.. even when you factoring with the heat pump 1 kW in gives you 4 kW of heat but you have to do the math for your area. The pump will not last forever so every 12 years.
Hybrid water heaters SUCK! Period. I have one as a test model in my own home and am a licensed professional at the highest levels with 25 years of experience. There is little difference between brands with build quality. The heat pumps run nearly constantly in hybrid or especially efficiency mode, they burn out, coils ice over and are just generally buggy (don't heat the tank all the way through. I have an 80 gallon in a basement that is always, year-round between 55 and 65 degrees. Well within the operational temps stated by the manufacturer. In efficiency mode it takes 24 hours to heat through from cold, in hybrid mode it takes 12 and straight electric mode electric takes 5-6 hours. I get calls and complaints from owners all the time and there is literally nothing I can do because there is no error code and nor real serviceable parts in the compressor unless you're an AC/R tech, which pretty much no plumber is. So, the manufacturer will give you a new water heater after a good fight, but you will be on the hook for its installation. Gas operated on demand systems are just as efficient if not more so and can actually be fixed if they break and produce endless hot water at 5-6 GPM. Hybrid water heaters are expensive JUNK pushed by the green douche's simply because its electric and that way they can have a single fuel "pipeline" that can at some point, be controlled/regulated and it's not the bad...bad fossil fuel. If you have ANY OTHER OPTION, do that because otherwise I promise well before the factory warrantee is up, you will be getting the dreaded error code for a failed compressor. Yes, some people have no problems and if that's you great, save your breath because you are the minority I have installed literally a few thousand of these now over a decade or more, all brands all sizes and I am here to tell you that 2-3 of every 10 we install fail in the first 3 years. So, 20% to 30% failure rate from the factory. Why am I so mad? Because customers associate these failures with my work, even if they picked the water heater, it must be something we did wrong with the installation, or we must have damaged it when bringing it in. Ect. I have some customers on their 3rd hybrid water heater in 4 years and they appreciate me coming out to help about as much as one appreciates his dentist during a root canal. This is just another example of the green new government working with, schilling for, the manufacture and release to the public of an inferior product in the name of efficiency, that is actually less efficient and cost more to own than most on demand gas water heaters. Oh, but you're saving the planet with electricity from a coal, or co-generated power plant, or solar where large swaths of land were clear cut for panels. Its BS and the consumer is lead down the primrose path by the promise of efficiency and "savings". Don't believe it.... you're getting screwed. And yeah....I tell all customers this stuff up front now, so they can't blame me when 3 years later their paying me to do a warranty swap and wrangle the manufacturer to honor their warrantee.
If the heat pump breaks it becomes a conventional water heater. If the owner is too lazy to fix it after 2 years, that is not the fault of the water heater. it is still heating water. It wasnt a priority because it was still heating the water. had he fixed it like a normal person would he would have save 1000$
Se can be a crapshoot- rheem and so smith have not reliably solved this issue..sometimes its fine other times is massively annoying. My experience has been the dehumidification yu achieve vs the lowering of temp is at best a wash-look in a warm climate, they are perfect .but the biggest issue is NOBODY services there’s, nobody wnats too and nobody will be servicing them any time soon. 80 bd is no big deal ??? Insid ethe hosue ? Come on…they are not shoving this issue until they stop using cheapest possible parts on the heat pump on top. And yes you need to get the 80 gallon sizes-reheat times are liek half a day.
Tax payers will never recoup the extra cost of these units plus they don't produce as much hot water, most states don't have any extra credits or rebates...almost no one actually has more than one hot water heater in a normal house...
There is a federal tax credit of 30% up to $2,000 for heat pumps. Here in Denver we also have an $800 rebate from the utility and even more from the city. The numbers work out, and the energy savings payback from my two projects was less than 3 years for my renovation projects with no rebates in Florida. Not sure what you mean by more than one hot water heaters - was always assuming just one. Just replying to give people correct information here.
Here's what I found out about energy efficient appliances, there's no data showing they're worth it in the long run. Anything mechanical that has to run longer breaks sooner.
Well unless can separate the heat pump from the tank and is DIY replaceable then well no. tanks fail too quickly then the higher cost of the unit not worth it.
I think it depends. For instance - my Rheem has been installed for 3 years without issue. In that time period it's saved close to $1,500 in energy. So if I make it another 1-2 years, it's breakeven or even in the positive money-wise in terms of paying for itself. Lots of margin there even if some parts do fail under warranty.
The failure rate and cost of repair of a heat pump water heater has got to be many times more than a resistive heater element. That alone is a good reason not to buy one , not to mention the large purchase cost.
Founder of.... bla bla bla... Spoiler alert.... bla bla bla... Click bait title.... EXTREMLY GOOD water heater heat pump are the split ones (with exterior unit and interior unit) ! End of story. Everything else, water heater by resistance (electric non heat pump), methane gas, propane gas, petrol, are BAD and WORSE. Water heater with heat pump NON SPLIT, single unit are kind of good but not recommended (high noise, the space were are install must be huge and heated place).
You are taking the heat you paid for in your house, running a compressor and fan that uses additional electricity to warm your water. Now you have a lot of expensive parts that will fail. What till you have to fix it not under warranty. Big expense. And in 5 years or less the parts will be obsolete or not supported by the manufacturer anymore. Unless your using an electric water heater this is a no value upgrade.
You have a very balanced and accurate review.
I've owned a heat pump water heater for about 8 years now?, (ge geospring, red top). Fan for the heat pump had issues a few months ago and I just switched it to electric only mode as I've been very busy.
But overall it's been a great water heater (I'm in florida), have been very happy with it.
Thank you! And eight years, that's awesome. Tons of energy savings racked up in that time period even if it's currently not in efficient mode.
Did you ever replace the fan? I have a grey top geospring in FL and the fan motor went out on me a few years ago and I am finally getting it replaced Monday.
I also have a GE Geospring hybrid, now 13 years old. The heat pump went out about 6 months ago and I've been using it with the heating elements only. The diagnostic menu said a fan was bad, even though both fans seemed to work fine using the troubleshooting menu. I replaced the fans anyway with no change...probably a problem with the fan controller on the motherboard. I'm now looking at replacing it with a Bradford White (made in USA).
Our oil tank, with indirect fired hot water heater died las August, just as we were traveling for vacation. When we came back, I decided that I was done with oil and we got a geothermal system, along with a heat pump hot water heater. So far, the heater has been great. I'm actually looking forward to the summer to see if it will air condition our basement and we can run the geo down there less. I am SO HAPPY that I no longer have to think about what are the current oil prices, did I run out of oil, etc., etc. Our boiler was already loud and we were used to that and the combo of our geo and heat pump is much more quiet, so I see nothing but upsides for it. I absolutely could have installed it myself, but since I was already getting the geo installed as well and since we get the 30% federal rebate, it was a no brainer to let them do it.
That's awesome. I think geothermal is also the most efficient type of HVAC heat pump system you can get right now? The COP's are really high on them. Glad the numbers worked too, especially with that 30% tax credit (uncapped to boot right?)
I like the fact it works as a dehumidifier. Have had mine 4 years now.
which type?
@@zoltanpaplanos4686
Hybrid water heater/ heat pump. Mine is ao smith brand. I got the 40 gallon. I've left it in heatpump only mode, although it has heating elements. I did originally have it left at 125 degrees or so. Recently increased it to 130 as recommended for bacteria purposes as my water is from a well.
Good video. Another consideration, if converting from a gas fired water heater, is electric service for the heat pump unit. Many require a 240V/30A type of circuit for those with the aux. heating elements. There are some models that omit those elements and may be able to run off a 120V 15-20A circuit. But in an older house, like mine, w/ 100A electric service, and a small breaker panel (that's full), adding another 240V circuit might require a panel upgrade at a minimum and a 200A service upgrade most likely.
In my case, I'll be sticking with a gas fired condensing tankless heater. I had an 80% reduction in my gas bill when I swapped out the old tank type heater. And with the insane California Climate Credit program, where I live, I've not paid a natural gas bill since 2018 since I get more in credits than I use in gas.
Great info thanks! Definitely seems like you zoned in on and put in the most sensible solution for your home.
Thanks for the fair and honest video on the HPHWT set ups.
I had some money to spend, and thought about a HP HWT, but my current tank is not very old, electric, I figure it can run a few more years.
The whole Heat Pump discussion took me to looking at Ductless and Ducted HP's for my entire house -2400Sqft and it turned out that I could get a HP mini split ducted unit that cools my entire house all summer, and heats it in spring and fall - installed last spring, and I can say this cost about the same, but saved me a lot more money right away. I will still look at a HP HWT in a few years, hope to see the price of them come down.
This sounds like a win! And also sounds like you did your homework on it to do what’s best for your home and situation.
I installed my Rheem unit myself and I love it ! One unexpected benefit to my unit that is installed in my garage is that my tools are a lot less rusty. It keeps the humidity level down in the garage.
I have had my Rheem heat pump water heater for two years. I am very happy
with it. My electric KW/hr. consumption every month dropped by nearly 1/2 over
the previous year when my old electric tank was in operation.
One other thing, they aren't common in the USA yet, but there are heat pump water heaters that function more like a Mini-split with an outdoor unit so it solves the room size and noise issues.
They aren't that common anywhere yet. But I can't wait until they are, they are such a perfect way to handle this.
Excellent units, but expensive even when you can find them here in the US. You can literally DIY this for a fraction of the price and it's more efficient as well. Saw a cool video by @ne7s29 doing exactly this and the results are impressive to say the least. Requires a bit of know-how and mechanical aptitude, but there's no shortage of information available here and elsewhere on the web to that end.
@@NateInTX
We just got one installed as part of our geothermal install. I could have absolutely installed it myself. It needs 30amp power and your typical water inlet and a hot water output. It needs an expansion tank and a drain. Any DIYer could install one in three hours tops.
Are you talking about SANCO2 split systems? Very interested in putting the outdoor part of that in my hot garage, but the online manual makes very clear that no warranty exists unless installed by a licensed professional. That makes the payback period too long (for me).
@@GeorgeRovny yes, but like mentioned, crazy expensive
So i have had a Rheem Heatpump water heater now for 6 years or so. I live in NJ and its in my basement which in winter gets very cold ( old home) . Zero issues. Love the fact that it has a awesome app that allows switching modes in schedule daily . I run 3 different modes daily to satisfied our needs and save money.
One concern maybe about ducting the WH. Typically, propeller type fans are not designed for static resistance; which ductwork represents. So ducting off the WH might not work too well. I installed one and to my surprise it was (IIRC) 75" tall. I got so lucky, because many basements in my are couldn't handle that height. (A standard elec is 58")
Bringing up static pressure on ducted heat pumps is quite astute. I’ve never thought about that but makes total sense. Depends on your ductwork and length, etc. but ducting out here in CO is a common strategy these days.
@@AttainableHome Thank you. I'm a 35 year HVAC guy who started in the field doing air balance. I learned a ton.
Good review. I purchased a Rheems in 2020 - installed it myself. Starting having issues with it after 6 months - and found out that no one in my area would perform warranty work on it. I did all the work - an finally they said the unit is bad and needs to be replaced. Took it back to Home Depot - swapped it after some back and forth about management there - install the 2nd one - again - I'm doing all the work - and have had no problems with it so far. Not sure I would do it again. I'm retired and my wife and I just don't use that much hot water - so the savings are like $20 - $25 per month. Like you I installed mine in the garage (North Carolina) - but I ran a 8 inch duct up into the attic to pull attic air into the unit. In summer the temp in the attic easily hits 120+ degrees in the afternoon - an that's the only time I let the heat pump run...under those ideal conditions I can heat water in little more than an hour. In winter - if attic is say 50 degrees - it takes almost 3 hours...also I use Home Assistance to manage the Rheems - so I don't need or have configured the wifi cloud component...with this interface I can actually see the temp of the water - something I the cloud/app did not provide...
What HA integration are you using? Is it all local?
Great vid. "Your quote might look bigger" is the understatement of the year =). Water heater install companies salivate at the opportunity to canibalize your rebates. I've gotten quotes from $5k to $8k here in the Bay Area. And the ones that will "handle" your rebate process will still walk away whole + take your rebates. So, installer greed is f'ing everything up. I finally decided to buy the unit at HD, on sale, + a $900 rebate via golden state. Will use a local plumber that charges by the hour to help with the heavy lifting.
We recommend a 65-gal HPWH as a replacement for a 40-gal gas WH, and a 80-gal HPWH to replace a 50-gal gas WH, to get similar first hour delivery. If you are concerned about noise you can use a split unit like the Sanden Sanco and have the noisy part outside, but be prepared to spend 2x for it
Agree, good stuff!
@@AttainableHomeI wonder if a better option would have been to use the same size, but set the water temp to 140+ and use a mixing valve to output 12x degree hot water?
@@jwhite4 This would be an interesting calculation. I think I mentioned upsizing because if you look at the actual electric usage (EnergyGuide labels too) from the heat pump itself it's really a small delta for the different sizes. In our BPI Energy Auditor training they also tell us that 120 deg is the ideal temp for most households and the most efficient, but I think that could be antiquated perhaps with the newer heat pump systems. I guess these are all good questions and to be figured out!
@@AttainableHomeI did a spot check of Home Depot prices for my Rheem Proterra. 50gal is $1859 (up from $1699 when I got mine Apr 2023). 80 gal is $2229. $370 more. That would appear to be more than the cost of a mixing valve. There's installation if you are hiring a plumber; but then a plumber might charge more to deal with the larger & heavier 80 gal tank vs 50 gal. It also needs more room.
But yes, I'd think it would be an interesting comparison, especially if the cost to operate is similar.
@@AttainableHome: Keeping the water at JUST 120 is the more efficient, albeit riskier option. No matter how well insulated, the heat will always seep back out from the tank; and the bigger the delta between the water inside and the air outside, the faster that occurs. Granted, that may only end up being an extra 25-minute run cycle of the HP element per day, but it’s still putting more wear and tear on the moving parts. The biggest risk of going too low, we all know is Legionaries Disease. As for me, in East Central Illinois, my plan for when I do get one is to keep the same tank size as my 1980s era gasser, and just crank the heat to its max; let the thermostatic mixing valve keep it to the mandatory 120.
I have a true heat pump outdoor unit that runs into my utility room. There, I have two tanks.. one for warm water and one buffer tank for the underfloor heating/cooling of the house. A little software IO box determens the flow of the water and whether the outdoor compressor needs to kick in for heating or cooling. For instance, if the hot water is running low (350 liters), it will activate the outdoor compressor to heat up the water flow of the system and transfer it to the heat-exchange coils in the hot water tank. This way the compressor water never touches the hot water directly preventing contamination. The system also has a resistive backup heater that runs about 3x 230v 16A to supply realtime water should the tank get too cold and to do a weekly anti-legionella cycle to kill any germs in the hot water tank.
The system can also divert hot water into the underfloor heating piping throughout the house, allowing it to heat the entire house in cold winters with just 30c. In summer, the compressor can work in reverse to capture cold air and supply colder water (18c) into the house, allowing it cool down a bit without having ACs running.
The outdoor compressor is big but not too loud at all. It's on the corner of my garden and I barely hear it. Plusside is that when it's running at high capacity it's often freezing outside so you're safely inside, not hearing a thing. So the whole system is an outdoor compressor/heatpump unit --> logic board and automated valves redirecting flow of water --> two tanks for hotwater/heating and cooling of subfloor piping. Only downside to this system is that all the warm water is quite a way away from the main house so it takes a while for warm water to hit your faucet. We've installed a little boiler in the attic above the bath room so it gets warm water in matter of seconds. It's about 35 liter so it's just to balance that initial burst of hot/cold water. In the kitchen we still have to wait a bit for hot water.. I might install an undersink boiler or one of those cooking-water-faucets that have a boiler built-in.
I was kind of shocked by the energy usage of this system. In a winter month we used about 1800kWh (excluding the EV).. that's total house power though but given we used to do about 250 a month, I'm guessing the system used about 1500kWh for a cold month of heating/warm water. Quite a jump but if you compare that to the natural gas usage this house used to have in cold winters and the cost of gas these days in Europe, this system is astronomically cheaper. We didn't do it to save money (the whole install wasn't cheap) but mostly to get off natural gas. We even had the piping infrastructure for gas removed so we're now 100% electric. We already have some solar but might expand it a bit more. Net metering is a state of flux here so maybe, maybe not.
Very interesting approach for home heating/cooling. Wondering if this approach can be adapted for the homes where under the floor piping is not possible. May be using a heat exchanging coil , like an evap coil, in each of the room may work to heat/cool the room. Another optimization I can think of is to heat/cool the water reservoir during the day when you have your roof top solar panels producing energy - sort of using water mass as a battery - and utilize stored energy in the night for heating/cooling without drawing significant power from the grid.
Will you mind sharing details of the installer of your system ?
I recently got a AOSmith one installed, but can't find much info on how the home automation port works. Once I can figure that out I want to set it up so it only runs at night when hydro is cheaper. I'm thinking of just using a contactor to turn the whole unit off in the day then back on at night, but since it has electronics in it and a compressor I'm not sure if it's a good idea to do that. For now I'll leave it as is so I can get a baseline of what my hydro bill increases by, and my gas bill decreases by, and at least if I do decide to do something I'll then be able to tell how much it improved things.
I have a Rheem ProTerra I installed by myself last year.
One major PITA not mentioned is that at least the Rheem, and I think some others, relocate the cold and hot water to the side of the tank (since the heat pump sits on the top). So whereas with standard element heaters, with H & C outlets on the top, it's maybe minor plumbing to get them connected (none if you use flexible hoses). With these, it's major plumbing work.
My concern (mentioned in the video and below) is reliability. I never had a gas electric or standard electric HWH that needed a repair (excluding replacement of the anode). But I've seen lots of people mention faulty parts (again on the Rheem). Nice that they provide them for free under with 10yr parts warranty. But its not a trivial task to replace them.
Agree on these points, thanks for sharing. In both houses I moved the location of the water heaters completely (both to better locations in the garage and out of the house) so there was some extra plumbing work anyway, but I wouldn't say it was a massive deal in the end. The reliability risk is definitely elevated with these as well. I wonder how they compare to tankless reliability.
Nothing more efficient than a heat pump - nothing more expensive to fix or maintain than a heat pump. Same goes for these.
They've moved the locations to the top in the latest models
Appreciate the info. I have had mine 3 years on my new house. I got no rebates or tax incentives when I installed being a new unit and not a replacement. I would do it all over again. We never run out of hot water, but there is two of us and the tank is 80 gallons. I would encourage everyone to go as big as your space will allow. It doesn’t cost a tremendous amount more. The install is no harder than a normal water heater, however, you do have to have a drain line, enough space or makeup air as you described. I would be very careful about where you placed any ducts outside the envelope of your home. Consult and experienced hvac tech(I am) to make sure you are not causing heating/cooling and moisture issues. Best place for these are in a garage. Second best place is in a semi-conditioned attic, even though water heaters in attics concern me. Has to be done right and make sure you get the auto shutoff water valve option on it if you have a leak. They do him a little, but not too bad in my opinion.
If they are installed with copper piping rather than PEX the noise tends to transmit through the piping. Have you done a comparison to gas water heaters,
This is easily mitigated by utilizing vibration dampening mounts/pads and strapping, and none are more effective than Sorbothane, a viscoelastic polymer used by NASA to protect space shuttle cameras during launch. 📄
This could be, but in my personal experience the noise is clearly coming directly from the heat pump unit sitting on top.
My Rheem heat pump water heater just installed a month ago. it has a super annoying high-pitched ringing sound and I have to figure out what to do about it because I can't live with that.
Misleading on the downsides the benefits outweigh these “negatives” by a huge margin. It takes a moment to plan ahead because it’s not a regular water heater it’s different technology. Here are a few ideas that will help.
Place the tank near places where there is WASTE HEAT, like a dryer, fridge, server closet. This reduces the need for required cubic space.
Keep your old tank and use connect them together with a recirculation pump. This will let you get away with a slightly cheaper/smaller unit while giving you a higher capacity. You will never run out of hot water.
I am an Energy Advisor and have many more “tips” for your emery systems. Don’t let these sensationalist naysayers discourage you from doing the right thing for your wallet and the planet.
Thanks Dad.
What brand HPWH do you recommend? Is the Steibel unit better quality?
My situation was ideal, I bought a foreclosure and the net cost was the same as a standard, 6 years in no issues. I also dump my dryer into the utility room in the winter recycling the heat.
BIGGEST downside not mentioned: Wi-Fi connection, more like no connection.
These are smart devices, and to gain even more efficiency is best to set a schedule, the problem is they are Wi-Fi only. Depending on location and other Wi-Fi devices it will take a effort to set up, possibly moving bases, worst case install another Wi-Fi base, and even then STILL have the connection drop. Even if you do not schedule, having alerts to issues with tank will be ideal to know when something needs fixing.
It will be a non issue for the manufactures offer an Ethernet port with the Wi-Fi and massively improve reliability with that backup.
I bypassed the wifi. Just set the temp and forget it. Especially if one of the goals is space cooling and dehumidification.
Running out of hot water is not really a thing for any water heater so long as a thermostatic mixing valve installed, which allows the water heater to store energy more efficiently at higher temperatures, since it requires less stored water to produce the desired setpoint.
If people are taking normal showers, no one should ever run out of water if they have a 50 gallon tank. Worst case scenario, you outpace it a tad and the electric elements have to kick on. But the average shower is 8 minutes long. If you have a 2 gallon show head and you have it on 50% hot water, that's a gallon a minute. If we're generous and say you take a 12 minute shower, that's only 6 gallons of hot water being used. For a family of 4, even if the first person takes a shower, then does a load of laundry AND starts the dishwasher, you should be fine. We got one installed in November, we're a family of 4 and so far we haven't come close to running out of wter.
@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403: Just one minor oversight there; the water you have to run to get hot water to the tap (assuming you don’t have a recirculating valve, which most people don’t even know what they are). For my house, that’s 6 gallons for the tub and 20 for the kitchen/laundry room. Needless to say I’m planning to put a small tank in the laundry room to get that down.
2:19 The flip side of that is, and you kind of alluded to this, it has a built-in backup system. If the heat pump fails you still have the traditional elements to heat your water. After 8 years of flawless service, my GE GeoSpring finally had an issue when the heat pump stopped coming on. I switched it from heat-pump only mode to electric only mode. It has a 10 year warranty so all it took was a phone call and they sent me a new capacitor which I was able to change out myself in just a few minutes. At no point did we not have hot water.
So what’s your opinion for someone planning to upgrade .
Also hold off if you can, wait for HEEHRA to get funded in your State then you could get up to $1,950 toward a Heat Pump Water Heater as a Point of Sale Rebate depending on your income level, the 30% tax credit is nice, but it's NOTHING next to the HEEHRA where if your household income is 80% or less the Median Household Income for your area or like up to half the cost if you are 81-150%.
how much longer would one have to wait for the HEEHRA to get funded?
@@crystalline9098 according to the Department of Energy website they expect all states to be funded by the end of the year
I’m in a cold northern climate and i have no issues in the winter. There is no noise to speak of. I noticed it initially but it’s like asking if you notice your fridge noise. Energy use before was standard electric water heater. Now it’s 1-4 kw per day. Significantly less. No issues installing. I can easily power it with my generator now. The heat pump only uses 200w. There were no credits when I bought mine 3-4 years ago. It’s already paid for itself in energy saving compared to my old one twice. Our use is 1-4 showers per day and it rarely runs out of water. I say go for it. It’s a no brainer.
That’s awesome. What model HPWH do you have? Would love to know what are the lowest noise ones these days.
@. It’s the rheem proterra. It’s been a great water heater.
I wondered about noise. We already have a noisy sunvolt battery with our solar so two noisy systems would be a pain! Thanks
Only downside I've experienced with my A.O smith hybrid is reliability.
I'm on my 3rd one in 5 years, replaced for free each time as they have 10 year warranties.
When they work they are fantastic
I asked the plumbing department at the biggest home building center in our area how many heat pump water heaters they have sold in the last year. They said only one. The price of natural gas is too low right now. So there is no economic reason to upgrade even with rebates and tax credit. We have ductless multi zone mini-split heat pump and it's great but I think we are going to hold off on upgrading our water heater.
Well, I love my heat pump water heater. It failed after 8 yrs and the mfr replaced for free, and I paid $150 for labor. I thought that was fantastic.
While waiting a few days for the new one, I could still use the electric element for hot water.
I think it's a good choice for a lot of folks.
What brand do you have that they replaced it for free? Was it under the standard 10 year warranty, or did you buy an extended warranty?
@tobyt7163 AO Smith, regular warranty
You need to look at the Stiebel Eltron Accelera. No anodes to degrade.
That is not a good thing , had one installed for a customer and the hot water output nipple corroded off and they are not a screwed in nipple so that was the end of the water heater
Hello, this video on your heat pump hot water heater is interesting. Just keep in mind. The heat pump works better in colder environment. in the southern climate, if you really want to save money, it has worked for me. I have owned five houses and utility bills is always the top issue. I started adding 110. tankless units under the sink in the bathroom I used a 220 unit in the kitchen with the dishwasher and for the sink changed over to a tankless hot water heater just for the shower/ Bath which it was 240 these four items were the same price for buying a 60 gallon hot water tank. Or a heat.pump tank you will save more money this way on energy bills,consider as a option. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for the comments. Why do you say it works better in colder environmental? I can't see how this is true.
Excellent info. Thank you so much!
I think that these are great units and many potential upsides. Florida (I'm a native) and Nevada where I live now are two sunny spots most of the year. Gas is standard here in most cases and have two gas fired water heaters one 75 gallon and a 50 gallon. In addition which is more important is solar hot water heating and this is the bulk of my water heating unless I empty the solar tank taking long showers or filling the spa at night. Unfortunately for most, space can be an issue and am fortunate enough to have a dedicated utility room for all that. Hopefully things that will be covered in these videos is sufficient insulation and "European" windows which are rare here and expensive but well worth it. The other are mini split or ducted mini split systems for HVAC. We have to face facts that here in the United States, builders and building codes are pretty weak when it comes to energy efficiency.
OK, so how do I vent them in a closet inside the house, so weird or backwards...looks like you might need to duct it out somewhere? 10 by 10 closet that is almost a bedroom size...
If it's just a utility closet you could do something as simple as replace the door with a curtain or cut a hole in the door and install a vent in there and near the ceiling.
If there is other equipment in the closet the waste heat from that equipment may be enough to keep the water heater decently efficient. The water heater will still work in a cooler room, it will just be less efficient (but still more efficient than a resistive heater).
It may end up that it's a better idea to find efficiency in your whole system elsewhere too, depending on how much engineering would need to be done to make it work efficiently.
Yeah, it's true that somehow it'll need airflow. If I'm in a warmer climate like FL or Texas or in the south, I'd be happy to vent it outside. If up north or colder climates, it probably makes sense to keep it vented indoors and in conditioned space, even though it's using essentially warmer air from the HVAC. Would be interesting to run numbers on that comparison.
Would it make sense to run a duct from the cool air output of the water heater to floor level behind the fridge in the kitchen, and another from ceiling level behind the fridge back to the room with the water heater? I figure the fridge makes hot air, so sending it to the water heater would allow the water heater to make use of the waste heat, and sending the cool air from the water heater to the fridge would make the fridge run more efficiently.
I like this idea, if it’s not too much construction and demo work etc. Both units (fridge and water heater heat pumps) are sort of so efficient that you may only see a $10-20 per year energy savings I might guess, but it would be an interesting project to track savings in for sure.
@@AttainableHome The other idea I had is that there are a lot of things like food and medicine that say to store them in a cool, dry place. Putting the water heater in a pantry and insulating the walls might make sense.
Superior job on your viseos, thank you!
Good video! A tiny correction: A conventional water heater does have a couple of moving parts: The thermostats physically flip the circuit on and off.
Personally, my issue with them seems to never be covered: I am a single man living alone, so my hot water usage is significantly lower than the "family of four" that seems to be what people like to reference. How do I know what my payback period actually is? And, BTW, that leads to the problem of "how much power is my water heater using?", which turns out to be harder to answer than one might wish!
Another good tip for homes who tend to run out of hot water is insulating your hot water pipes well. Easiest DIY project you can do to live better.
Totally, especially that first six feet or so coming off the tank. Ideally all of it though as you say
Unfortunately I live in the Midwest, the water temperature going into my house is 52 to 54°. When I lived in the south the water temperature was roughly 60 to 65. It works better and warmer weather and it saves you a hell of a lot more energy costs. I do use it here in Indiana. only for my bathroom sinks, which I have easy access to wire into the GFI outlets and Plus hidden under the cabinet no wasting water flow to warm up its instantly. Energy cost as lot cheaper, if you build a house, instruct the electricians to put outlets under the sink it is more efficient and I had mine in my house for almost 8 years now.
I have one in New England and it works absolutely fine with the colder water. It might take a bit longer to heat the water, but the recovery efficiency is very good with cold water.
The strategy I used was to get the largest one that would physically fit, run it at 150F and have a thermostatic mixing valve. If you have a large enough effective supply then the slower recovery is less important as you rarely actually run out of hot water.
I live in central Indiana and installed a heat pump water heater almost 2 years ago. It's been working flawlessly. It has a "high demand" setting which easily allows it to keep up, if/when you use more than your normal amount. In another year of service, I will have saved enough on electricity over a standard hot water heater than I paid to get the heat pump. Incoming water temp of 52 to 54 is not a problem, at all.
6:22 you mention that these might be installed in conditioned space in the north, but another downside is they are literally just removing the heat you paid for with your heating system. It's not magic, the heat came from somewhere. So it may look like the heatpump is efficient all by itself, but when you're just stealing BTUs from the house to heat the water with, the COP drops from maybe the advertised 3 to an effective 1 at best. Even when installed in a basement, most of the heat is just coming from the floor above and for every degree you drop the basement temp, you're adding additional load to the heating system to keep up. It works a little if you really insulate the first floor from the basement and keep the basement walls uninsulated trying to use some geothermal heat, but then the incoming air is at less than 50 degrees and the COP isn't what's advertised anyway. On the other hand, if you need to run a dehumidifier all summer long in the basement to keep it dry, it certainly cancels out that energy usage. For me, heating the water with gas in the winter and a HP in the summer would be ideal, but honestly we only pay $12/month for water heating to begin with, so it's a tough sell no matter what the incentives look like. In warmer climates, totally different story.
Good points, would be interesting to run numbers and energy models on this specific situation. Also good illustration on that every house is unique.
That is like saying you should not use a fridge/freezer cause it steals cold from your house that you paid for with your air conditioner.
@hrcnick11 No, because refrigerators aren't rated in COP. And refrigerators don't steal cold, they pull the heat energy from the inside and pump it out. But, yes, your air conditioner does have to remove the extra heat it makes in the summer.
@@scottkolaya2110yes they are. They might not be labelled with their COP but of course that they have one.
Refrigerators move heat from inside them to your house so, he's point is still valid as a refrigerator running will warm up a room that you are paying to cool down.
If I could go back, I'd still install a heat pump water heater, but I would size up and install an 80-gallon water heater rather than a 60-gallon water heater to offset for the slower recovery time.
Totally makes sense to me!
I have a heat pump water heater and this video is very accurate. Unfortunately after one year, I had a temperature sensor break on the water heater. Rheem sent a replacement one pretty quickly but then I had to install it myself. After 3-4 months something else broke and I haven't had the time to call the warranty so I've been running it in electric mode.
Sorry it keeps breaking! That is super annoying for sure.@@adilchauhan397
If I'm not mistaken, these units have the same conventional heating elements at the same wattage as the equivalent standard electric water heater. If the heat pump section "gets behind" the conventional elements will kick in (in the order determined by the thermostats) and heat your water.
You should not have to pay extra money to compensate by buying a larger unit. If you are running out of hot water, your unit is simply undersized for the usage in your household.
You’re correct that they have the traditional heating elements along with the heat pump. It would be interesting to run the calculations on having that kick in when hot water gets low vs a bigger tank where pretty much only the heat pump ever runs. Every time the heating element kicks in you’re losing on the energy savings, unfortunately.
I am confused between rheem 180L ambi power and istore 180l. Rheem is 600$ more than istore .Please advise. thanks.
Could i heat my swim spa with this?
In India we don’t generally need pressure boosters. I suppose these would always need boosters?
Why you compare this heat pump heater with electrical one what's gonna happen with savings if you compare it to natural gas one ?
Good question. Totally depends on the natural gas (therm) price vs electric in your area. In general here in Colorado even with low gas rates it would cost about double to run gas vs heat pump water heater here.
One major downside is that you will not get hot water during a power outage like I do with my gas water heater. Also you are effectively running AC in your house as you are pulling the heat from your house. Fine in the summer, but not so good in the winter. The heat is effectively being pulled from your house heater.
If you have a refrigerator, you are effectively running a heater all year in your kitchen. If you have it in a garage or basement, I doubt you'll notice a temperature difference in your living space.
@@billvojtech5686 I am in complete agreement with you about refrigerators heating your kitchen. If you live in a climate with more warm days than cold it is nice to have your refrigerator outside. I have one frig inside for convenience, but our extra frig and chest freezer are outside for that very reason. If your fridge uses 200W that is effectively like running a 200W resistive heater. Heat pump water heaters are much more extreme in energy use.
I don’t think it’s 200W resistive heat with a 1:1 ratio, more or less like a toaster, is how you wrote that. Refrigerators have heat pumps and by definition they transport heat, they don’t create it. A 200W fridge heat pump (including heat pump water heaters) are incredibly efficient at moving this heat around to do its job.
@@AttainableHome You are correct that a 200W heat pump can moved up to 600W of heat under ideal conditions, but that heat needs to come from somewhere. Ideally you pull it from outside, but if you pull it from inside your house your house heater needs to provide the surplus. Heat pumps just use energy to move heat, but they use energy which generates their own heat in the process. A fridge pulls heat from the inside the box and dumps it to your house. In the process it heats up your house. That is why you can't cool your house by leaving the fridge door open. I was talking about a heat pump that uses 200W. I am an Engineer and not an HVAC professional, but physics is physics.
Don't modern gas water heaters use electronic ignition instead of pilot lights?
Family of 2 here. We have a whole house electric tankless hot water heater (29kw). It's likely marginally more efficient than a tank. My home energy monitor says I spend $21/mo on average for hot water. Using your data of 75% less cost than an tank electric, it's maybe 60% less cost than tankless (ish?). Assuming this, I would spend about $13/mo with a heat pump. And save $96/yr. My electric rate is 18.7/kwh (total bill divided by kwh). Saving thousands a year seems wildly optimistic.
I looked into replacing my rental gas water heater a few years ago. Electricity is cheap here and there are only normally two adults in the house, heat pump heaters are expensive, gas with a exhaust fan are noisy and for a quarter of the price of a gas unit I bought a 40 gallon electric resistance heater which is problem free and quite.
But you are paying for a lot more electricity every year for as long as you have it.
@@anxiousappliance very true, but my upfront cost was very low and it’s a lot more reliable.
I live in Southern California where gas rates are high and have owned the same 50 gallon gas fired water heater for over 20 years.
My gas bill has never been over $19 per month.
Very weak argument 🤭. My is working great and the savings are stunning
I love mine too!
Not a down-side, but check 1) whether you need a permit and 2) whether you are allowed to DIY it. My homeowners insurance required proof of the permit, the inspection and the certified pro install.
A handy individual could install an "air to water swimming pool heat pump" and a circulation pump to circulate heated water through a conventional water heater tank.
Our local leading plumbing company here in Phoenix, run by a guy named "Parker" and his "sons," quoted me ~$8K to install a top-of-the-line 50gal Rheem ProTerra hybrid water heater. I bought the unit for ~$1900 and installed it myself. New pan, some pex and connectors... the whole project cost me
another downside you probably have yet to encounter is the AOSMITH is just consumer grade junk, 2 years in before i got Error 120 (reads ECC 120 on the display) and it has an obnoxiously loud beep like smoke detector decibel level unless you reset the circuit breaker every day. If you talk to customer service after some headache maybe you'll get a new unit or compressor replacement. Changes nothing in the inevitable failure rate of the compressor. It's clearly garbage if they are all failing so prematurely. I see others in the comments mentioning Rheem isn't much better. So don't expect to get quality equipment from your local home center. There ARE quality heatpump water heating systems out there.
What are the quality ones? I've heard the Rheem from plumbing store is better
Code allows you to use PVC up to the water heater?? Most codes want you to stay 18" away with PVC and PEX tubing!
Very weak arguments for downside, Most have 10 years parts warranties, you dont need contractors to install, any homeowner nothing different than a standard unit, If in warm weather climates they will pay for themselves in less than two years, noise is a non issue if in garage even then its very quiet. Had one here in florida for 9 years and the savings over a standard version are huge, over $45 a month
Not everyone lives in Florida ! HUGE differences if you can’t locatein garage, or have cold winters. And the nosie issue is out there -many many report on utube. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY services these units ! Plumbers wont touch the heat pump (whcih is what fails ost often) and HVAC guys are clueless and disinterested . ALSO NB almost all these teas rebates/credts etc do NOT apply to new builds.
That all should be stated then, not very effective in cold climates, not recommended if installed in living area. With ten year warranty the manufacturer services them, if they can’t fix them they replace them. All of that should be explained, not just blanket statements that these are bad for everyone. Like I said for people in warm weather climates who have these installed in their garage are beyond great, they sip energy compared to the standard ones.
@@johnwhite2576 Yup. BTW, it's "uninterested". Disinterested means something very different.
Great points and much more real-world than this click-bait video.
I spend 10 dollars a month for my hot water from a 15 years old 40 gallon gas heater, a new one is 560 dollars.I guess if you dont have a gas option, house is all electric , then maybe yes.
Try the essence water heater-it’s the bombe.biggest problem with heat pump water heaters is NOBODY will service them !
One more complaint. We live in Washington State. Our state is pushing this technology on us. Down side is, if you are new construction, you don't get any energy rebates because you are required to install this technology. If you are replacing an existing hot water tank in an existing home, you get the rebates. It's like e are being discriminated against because we are building a new home. The rebate should be available to all.
We got ours for roughly $600 after all the rebates
Awesome net cost!
With all the moving parts and extra electronics they will not last as long as a conventional, so how does this safe money when it needs to be replaced more often?
I think there is an assumption that they MAY not last as long, but we don't know for sure. Heat pump technology has been around a long time and is not new. In my two projects I saved over $500 per year in electricity alone, which adds up real fast.
I’ve had mine for more than 15 years. I run as conventional during winter and as heat pump during summer. If the heat pump should stop working and not be repairable - it would still work as conventional. With rebates I paid same price as conventional so it was a no-brained decision.
That’s a great idea to run it in different modes at different times of the year, depending on your location.
@@AttainableHome That $500 a year comes down to less than $42 a month, which might not be worth it for the hassles these things can cause. I'm debating on just getting a high quality water heater instead. I'm guessing that would save me a fortune over my 16 year old unit without all the other problems these heat pump units have.
They also allow you to control the water temperature, which most conventional heaters do not. Useful, if you have long runs of hot water pipe, where the heat is lost.
One installation issue of note: make sure the exiting pipes are insulated else you will lose heat from the hot water to the frigid air that the heat-pump is circulating in the space. Of course, if you vented the heat pump to the outside, this won't be such a problem.
I have had one for over a decade now. It's really NOT a complicated device. It is basically just a regular old electric hot water heater with a small window A/C unit bolted to the top of it. Except the little window AC doesn't send the heat outside, instead it just sends it into the tank to heat the water. And just like a window A/C, the basic technology behind it is well proven and decades old. They are stupidly efficient, the cut your electric usage by about 4/5ths over a conventional unit.
Just remember, it pulls the heat from the room to do its magic. So, the colder your climate, the more of the savings are being paid for with heating the room. No such thing as a free lunch!
Wait the first downside is that it’ll cost me more because I’m lazy and won’t fix it if it breaks for a few years?
I've had two. A GE and then the Rheem. When they work great, love them. Will I buy another one after the Rheem? No. I'm beyond sick of appliances that are not easy to DIY repair. One service call will wipe out any energy savings you get in a year.
The biggest problem has been the app and the tank software. The rheem software for the tank controller has been buggy as well as the web app.
I'll be adding a solar water heater to my system and replacing the heatpump with a standard tank after it dies.
Did you buy it from a home center or from the plumbing supply store?
Seems like a lot more trouble than it is worth. Like usual, the technology is good enough yet. They always say it's way more efficient, but depending on your situation the heat pump is stealing heat from the inside of your home, making your furnace work harder, which I doubt is factored into the efficiency of the hp water heater.
I assume you mean isn’t? If the heat pump is outside your home (or building envelope, as we call it), then it makes total sense. It sounds like you’re in a more northern/heating climate. In Colorado here it can still make sense, even if it takes a little indoor air to do the job.
How is heating the air in your house to heat your hot water more efficient than just heating the water? When the tank fails, fills with sediment, throwing away a perfectly good heat pump is not "better for the environment". The design should be changed so that the heat pump is a separate unit from the tank and they should have to be vented to the outside of the home. The other question is, when did air conditioning become so energy efficient? I thought it was a drain on the electric grid.
There are many considerations for sure. The short answer is that using heat pump technology, the efficiency of it is multiples more than just heating water traditionally with coils/elements etc. This goes into coefficient of performance (COP) and other metrics. It's basically so efficient that it can make up for the other losses you speak of. Not only with water heating but with HVAC systems too now.
@AttainableHome I am aware of COP. My point is you are robbing Peter to pay Pual. You heat the air in your home and then the heat pump uses that heated air to heat the water for your domestic hot water supply. That's like putting a hole in your wall. It's one thing is you live in a warm climate but for me venting outside would be the best choice, problem is temperatures hit 30 below in the winter when heat pump COP goes up to one, or greater.
@@stuartbrock7586These are not for everyone, or every situation, that’s what’s throwing you off. These are great for unconditioned spaces, like garages, attics, and basements. If you stick it in the middle of your house, it’s kinda pointless, maybe it will help keep you cool in the summer.
@triforcelink I'm not missing the point that was exactly what my point is.
What is the original way you heated your water? If it’s a conventional tank, yes you’re robbing from the HVAC, but overall it’s still all so much more effective/efficient it can still make sense. Would be curious to run real numbers on it all.
Drain line who thought that would be an ok thing to do????
That contractor went AWOL after install day..
How long before that evaporator plugs up with dust, the filter is nit going to catch it all, and you have to be very dilligent in cleaning that. If you miss cleaning, your efficiency is going to drop likeca rock.
I still fail to understand how running motors, compressors and fans, even at 90% efficiency is more economical than direct resistance heating when resistance heating is 100% electrically efficient.
This is a great question. I'm learning more and more about the engineering of all this every day, but my understanding is the main difference is that resistance heating is creating heat, whereas heat pumps are moving heat. It's much more efficient to transfer vs create. And this is why heat pumps can be 3-6X more efficient. Maybe someone else can chime in on this!
Because you are not creating heat.
You are moving it.
The heat is pumped from outside the unit inside. The amount pumped can easily by 4 to 5x the amount of energy needed to pump it.
It is limited by the Carnot cycle.
Because heat pumps generate 3-4 kw of heat with 1 kw of energy making them 300-400% more efficient then resistance heating.
@@jstaffordii You better re-study your physics because energy is not created from nothing, it's lost. You may want to study electrical energy usage of machinery and heat transfer also. They have been trying the net energy gain with cold fusion and so far it does not work either. Otherwise your car's fuel tank would fill up as you drove it. Right?
@@jamesspash5561 it's called COP. The energy required to relocate heat with a heat pump is 1/3-1/4 the requirement of resistance heat. No physics lesson required. The energy usage meter shows the kwh difference . 1 kwh of energy produces 3-4 kwh of equivalent heat with a heat pump. Have owned a HPDHW for 7 years. The DOE data plate on old resistance heater was 664 kwh annual, the DOE data plate on the HPDHW is 212 kwh annual usage for the same amount of hot water produced. That's 3 to 1.
I would never choose a heat pump over a gas furnace
Never say never :)
or already have one.
If the fan is constantly running how many watts is that and how much kilowatts per hour is that using?
For those on solar every watt counts.
Something sounds fishy about heat pumps I can't put my finger on it. I know the media is pumping it up heat pump this heat pump that. The fan is constantly running. Hmmm...
I see you had one of your hot water heater is cord connected hopefully that was just for testing purposes? It's definitely not a good idea. to have A hot water heater cord connected. It's intended to be hardwired permanent installation. Awesome video I have the reliant Eco net 50 gallon, hot water heater installed in my basement pipe the discharge to the basement floor pipe the intake to the basement ceiling I have a connected to my home assistant. The energy savings is phenomenal. It replaced the propane. Gas 50 gallon hot water heater to the tune of over $1000 in savings in gas alone…..
A O Smith make a 120 volt plug in model now
So does Rheem.
@@Obtuse94 The downside to the plug-in 110V units is that they're usually not hybrids and thus don't have the secondary heating elements in the tank. Even a 20A 110V outlet isn't going to be able to provide the current a standard 4500 watt element requires.
oh, how about pointing house to mother nature
I won’t touch heat pump hot water systems just to expensive for savings. Standard electric heater run by solar panels far better proposition for myself. Superior and far cheaper to do it that way.. even when you factoring with the heat pump 1 kW in gives you 4 kW of heat but you have to do the math for your area. The pump will not last forever so every 12 years.
Hybrid water heaters SUCK! Period. I have one as a test model in my own home and am a licensed professional at the highest levels with 25 years of experience. There is little difference between brands with build quality. The heat pumps run nearly constantly in hybrid or especially efficiency mode, they burn out, coils ice over and are just generally buggy (don't heat the tank all the way through. I have an 80 gallon in a basement that is always, year-round between 55 and 65 degrees. Well within the operational temps stated by the manufacturer. In efficiency mode it takes 24 hours to heat through from cold, in hybrid mode it takes 12 and straight electric mode electric takes 5-6 hours. I get calls and complaints from owners all the time and there is literally nothing I can do because there is no error code and nor real serviceable parts in the compressor unless you're an AC/R tech, which pretty much no plumber is. So, the manufacturer will give you a new water heater after a good fight, but you will be on the hook for its installation. Gas operated on demand systems are just as efficient if not more so and can actually be fixed if they break and produce endless hot water at 5-6 GPM. Hybrid water heaters are expensive JUNK pushed by the green douche's simply because its electric and that way they can have a single fuel "pipeline" that can at some point, be controlled/regulated and it's not the bad...bad fossil fuel. If you have ANY OTHER OPTION, do that because otherwise I promise well before the factory warrantee is up, you will be getting the dreaded error code for a failed compressor. Yes, some people have no problems and if that's you great, save your breath because you are the minority I have installed literally a few thousand of these now over a decade or more, all brands all sizes and I am here to tell you that 2-3 of every 10 we install fail in the first 3 years. So, 20% to 30% failure rate from the factory. Why am I so mad? Because customers associate these failures with my work, even if they picked the water heater, it must be something we did wrong with the installation, or we must have damaged it when bringing it in. Ect. I have some customers on their 3rd hybrid water heater in 4 years and they appreciate me coming out to help about as much as one appreciates his dentist during a root canal. This is just another example of the green new government working with, schilling for, the manufacture and release to the public of an inferior product in the name of efficiency, that is actually less efficient and cost more to own than most on demand gas water heaters. Oh, but you're saving the planet with electricity from a coal, or co-generated power plant, or solar where large swaths of land were clear cut for panels. Its BS and the consumer is lead down the primrose path by the promise of efficiency and "savings". Don't believe it.... you're getting screwed. And yeah....I tell all customers this stuff up front now, so they can't blame me when 3 years later their paying me to do a warranty swap and wrangle the manufacturer to honor their warrantee.
If the heat pump breaks it becomes a conventional water heater. If the owner is too lazy to fix it after 2 years, that is not the fault of the water heater. it is still heating water. It wasnt a priority because it was still heating the water. had he fixed it like a normal person would he would have save 1000$
Try the Bradford White heat pump heater, much better.
a freakin good wood stove like normal non war countries have.
Se can be a crapshoot- rheem and so smith have not reliably solved this issue..sometimes its fine other times is massively annoying. My experience has been the dehumidification yu achieve vs the lowering of temp is at best a wash-look in a warm climate, they are perfect .but the biggest issue is NOBODY services there’s, nobody wnats too and nobody will be servicing them any time soon. 80 bd is no big deal ??? Insid ethe hosue ? Come on…they are not shoving this issue until they stop using cheapest possible parts on the heat pump on top. And yes you need to get the 80 gallon sizes-reheat times are liek half a day.
how about the venus project moneyless non evil capitalization n life efficient n healthy n not in fear!!
Tax payers will never recoup the extra cost of these units plus they don't produce as much hot water, most states don't have any extra credits or rebates...almost no one actually has more than one hot water heater in a normal house...
There is a federal tax credit of 30% up to $2,000 for heat pumps. Here in Denver we also have an $800 rebate from the utility and even more from the city. The numbers work out, and the energy savings payback from my two projects was less than 3 years for my renovation projects with no rebates in Florida. Not sure what you mean by more than one hot water heaters - was always assuming just one. Just replying to give people correct information here.
None of those "potential downsides" are significant. Your video title should have been "6 Reasons Haters Won't Buy A Heat Pump Hot Water Heater".
I like your title better actually haha
Shouldnt buy a fridge then either 😂
oh how about illegal earth homes vs huge new addition hoa bull homes
Here's what I found out about energy efficient appliances, there's no data showing they're worth it in the long run. Anything mechanical that has to run longer breaks sooner.
Well unless can separate the heat pump from the tank and is DIY replaceable then well no. tanks fail too quickly then the higher cost of the unit not worth it.
I think it depends. For instance - my Rheem has been installed for 3 years without issue. In that time period it's saved close to $1,500 in energy. So if I make it another 1-2 years, it's breakeven or even in the positive money-wise in terms of paying for itself. Lots of margin there even if some parts do fail under warranty.
Tanks fail because people do not service the tanks at all. Water heaters are supposed to be serviced at least once a year and nobody probably does it
The failure rate and cost of repair of a heat pump water heater has got to be many times more than a resistive heater element. That alone is a good reason not to buy one , not to mention the large purchase cost.
Why does it have to be?
oh how about good food n diet n less showers.
Founder of.... bla bla bla...
Spoiler alert.... bla bla bla...
Click bait title....
EXTREMLY GOOD water heater heat pump are the split ones (with exterior unit and interior unit) !
End of story.
Everything else, water heater by resistance (electric non heat pump), methane gas, propane gas, petrol, are BAD and WORSE.
Water heater with heat pump NON SPLIT, single unit are kind of good but not recommended (high noise, the space were are install must be huge and heated place).
Completely US centric. Mostly irrelevant to me here in Australia. I stopped watching after about 5 minutes.
You are taking the heat you paid for in your house, running a compressor and fan that uses additional electricity to warm your water. Now you have a lot of expensive parts that will fail. What till you have to fix it not under warranty. Big expense. And in 5 years or less the parts will be obsolete or not supported by the manufacturer anymore. Unless your using an electric water heater this is a no value upgrade.
You're gonna lose anything you save in servicing these things