@@ChrisMaj if you didn't tell em what hassle it was and that you went trough more inserts then usual they probably don't give a damn. Often enough the customer is telling some BS too and the guys in the office rarley come to ever check something on their own. Except its taking forever. My experience at least.
@@ChrisMaj Ah nice, then the overhead is usually still okay and your guys know about whats going on. I already had some nice things where a customer supplied us with mistery "stainless" ... turned out to be inconel625, unlabeled material and i was like what in the freaking hell i have on the machine now and it took 2 hours and 3 phonecalls to even get that information out of somebody. Totally annoying -_-
The extra hours over what was quoted on this would go down as 'non conforming material' or something at my place and the customer would pay for it. The office cant quote for misalignment. We get castings that're all over the place, sometimes with a lot of excess in places it should be, turns a 60 hour job into 80 so that goes down as extra.
Outstanding and impressive work of art, at my 71 years of age I still enjoy every second of it, most kind of you for sharing it with us, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
when the C45 on the drawing turns out to be something in the ballpark of 1.8550+QT :D Or they send you "Stainless" and it turns out to be Inconel 625 ..i.. :D ... been there done that.
It might have been easier to bore out the center hole first to cure the massive runout, but then you'd need a bullnose live center in the tailstock. You got some beautiful end results, though.
@@lancer2204 I guess those pieces were some "leftover" from another project or just botched products, and the customer had the choice either to "scrap it and buy new material" or "pay more for the man-hours and save on material" - and it just worked out that the second option was more economic for him after all. Dunno, but there has to be some reason behind it - although I have no idea how labour cost here stacks against material cost. "Whoy knows" as they say here... ;-)
4340 is tough stuff. Especially with interrupted cuts. I’ve found Sumitomo CNMM###ENP AC6040P inserts work well for roughing. I do a lot of aerospace 4340M and 300M very interrupted cuts.
9:30 thank you for being ahead of my intusive thoughts 😂 everytime I see it Im like "Danger spaghetti" and I wanna touch it. I dont, because I like all my fingers, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt tempted!
Man, watching that interrupted cut makes me think of butter bot. "What is my purpose? Making parts?" "No, you intermittently hog out material" "... Oh my God"
I had a home gamer job making some pins for hydraulic equipment. Customer supplied material, which turned out to be 4140 hard chromed + induction hardened bar, salvaged from old hydraulic rods (he rebuilds the machines). The cost of the CBN inserts I used up getting through that induction hardening would have paid for fresh stock. And my God, the amount of chrome dust I had to clean off my lathe bed was a nightmare...
Oh wow, those got HT real hard. Do you guys run any trepan tools at your shop? A British bloke had a YT channel with tons of trepanning in exotic matl using homemade tools, until the Brexit they wanted put the shop under. It was an excellent channel.
His wife was terrified of him running a one man shop (he was a fan of Charles Darwin so was well up on ecological niches). The EU is without question something of a 'protection racket' you should talk to the inhabitants of a few North African nations about being on the receiving end of it with their fragile economies!
If you're talking about David Wilks and Tooltek then he closed his shop in 2020: "Closed down after 30 years. life goes on. Tooltek finished", ruclips.net/video/HGlvEIvaOHY/видео.html Seems to me that trepanning is so "out of the line" of any regular machining shop that it's just not worth keeping the tools and all for once in a blue moon job - and that's why there were shops like Tooltek, doing only that. If you have jobs like this one here just hog out the material, charge the customer and that's it - till the next time.
Love to see David Wilks make the most insane difficult trepanning jobs 3 to 4 meters deep with in tight tolerances. His calm voice and special English accent. Some times the cutout material core from expensive materials can pay the trepanning tool price. There are some of the shelf tools for that diameter but properly not able to cut in that debt we could see here. I've used one of the shelf tool for material thickness of 60 mm from either Iscar or Sandvik.
All that rough machine work. Got a good forge shop in the area? Could they have reforged the material into a sleeve? Would it have paid? Would have saved about 4/5 the material cost - although that did look like salvaged shafting.
If you have the tooling for trepanning lying around and your machine is set up for it you defo have a point here. Also you get a nice free chunk of round stock then!
@@ChrisMaj Making trepanning tools you need quit a bit of material, good one too or the corners where the inserts are mounted are going to break/wear trough pretty quickly. And it takes half a day usually. And the setup. Im no pro at it but imo its not very viable anymore nowadays except you want bonus material. Just cutting it away is way faster usually woth what inserts and stuff we have nowadays.
Great job as usual Chris!! But I suspect that you were(possibly still are) pissed off at the waste of time money and energy it took to get those made. As well as being bored out of your head by the repetitiveness of endless cuts for something essentially so simple….. Lovely watching you work buddy 👍
You can work it out from initial dimensions of the workpieces and the finished items - density of steel is about 7.8-7.8 g/cm3, so when you substract the volume of finished piece from initial volume you can estimate it pretty close. Curtis from CEE asked his viewers, in the video in which he was making a toolpost for a lathe, what is the weight of the finished toolpost - and some people got it pretty much spot on. Here, ruclips.net/video/d84weTMG7ek/видео.html
I get paid per hour, so I don't really care what they are doing in the office. As long as the chip conveyor is running, I'll fucken make chips all day 😅
@@ChrisMaj I am there with you. I learned a long time ago that it doesn't really matter who your boss is and to fly under the radar, keep your nose clean, and do what you are supposed to be doing.
Too bad you couldn't tell them that company policy for supplied material was that they have to shovel the chips because the conveyor's busted. Also that stringy bastard at 9:50 or so is meaner-looking than razor wire. 😯
Good job Chris, hey did you hook up an air line at the spindle bore rear? Looks like and sounds like it. I have done the same and the air pressure blows the chips back into the machine conveyor. Then once you have your shoulder in the bore you can run the coolant and it will flush chips out normally.
I prefer y customer supplies the material, it improves my cashflow when I don’t have to pay for something 30-60 days before I get paid... if they want to waste money let them, as long as you’re getting paid for removing it all, it doesn’t matter.
I'm a german lathe operator and always wanted to work in an other country "not EU" cuz we don't have the same measurements, and we use CM. at the start of this video i was more than confused with all the 3/16" or 10 7/8" i know i would be lost AF xd
I was born and raised in Poland, and I finished trade school there. Then I moved to the US, and believe me, inches were confusing at the beginning, but I got the hang of it.
Hi, im from the UK, its MM and Metres here now, big government push in 1970s to use the metric system, being a small country, we needed to export our machines, but didn't last very long. I fully understand why the USA has not completely adopted the Metric system, because it is such a large country, and the cost of converting or replacing machine tools would be to high. I was 8 years old when our schools started teaching metric, and we changed to 100 pennies in a pound (was 240), when i started my engineering apprenticeship in 1978, we used both systems, and on nearly always imperial/inchs calibration tools. Best regards John
@@bostedtap8399 until they come up with metric time and no timezones I won't be affected by people telling us to use metric (not you specifically, just Europeans that harp on it all the time.) I do use a ton of metric in my day to day life as is. I use a lot of inches and feet too. I also use 1/2 this shovel apart and one of these sticks high. Think of it more as the US being multilingual in measures instead of languages.
@@bac1308 The french did put forward base ten hour system after their revolution, alongside metrification. If Europeans looked a few centuries back, each had their own measurement system, and so for the rest of the civilized world. Any way, keep taking a lot of no notice as they say here. Regards John.
A tactic i found works really well for getting through that kind of interrupted cut is super deep DOC .003-5 feedrate. Not trying to tell you how to do it though, just something i found worked well on big stuff, cheers.
Anytime a customer wants to supply material for me, I ask them exactly what dimensions the material is before I can quote it. If the customer can't or won't give me exact material dimensions, I will put it in writing that my quote is based on material being a specific size, any other material dimensions must be re-quoted.
Le coût machine doit être important vu la matière enlevé d une part puis le durcissement d une autre part car les conditions de coupe ne sont pas les mêmes. Puis normalement il faut rajouter le coût matière et le coût humain.
I know that you are just a worker there but if I was the owner of the shop , I would just refuse this job. AND probably told the customer they should fire somebody , because they have idiots working for them...
I would like to think that this customer had these pieces "laying around" or obtained them at a tremendous discount from some other source. What a huge waste of material.
Regularie, u should never use coolant when working with ceramic inserts. And often fullmaterial is much cheaper than pipe/tube. And easier and faster to get on the market . But good job anyway ☝️
I think your statement isn’t totally accurate in the sense that all you have to do is discuss it beforehand with the client. In the spirit of them saving money (which is totally understandable) they may not think about your needs or even care about your expectations. But if you talk and if they trust you many times people will reason. Looking at this from what you’ve shown, I don’t see the issue. I was expecting to see square stock or scrap. Great work despite the challenges as usual.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Worked in a shop where the owner said "if the customer supplies the material the price get doubled". What a PIA!
I have no idea how they quote jobs like this. .
@@ChrisMaj if you didn't tell em what hassle it was and that you went trough more inserts then usual they probably don't give a damn.
Often enough the customer is telling some BS too and the guys in the office rarley come to ever check something on their own. Except its taking forever. My experience at least.
@@sicstar it's a small shop. Everyone knows what's going on around.
@@ChrisMaj Ah nice, then the overhead is usually still okay and your guys know about whats going on. I already had some nice things where a customer supplied us with mistery "stainless" ... turned out to be inconel625, unlabeled material and i was like what in the freaking hell i have on the machine now and it took 2 hours and 3 phonecalls to even get that information out of somebody. Totally annoying -_-
The extra hours over what was quoted on this would go down as 'non conforming material' or something at my place and the customer would pay for it. The office cant quote for misalignment. We get castings that're all over the place, sometimes with a lot of excess in places it should be, turns a 60 hour job into 80 so that goes down as extra.
Turning runout is so satisfying
Especially on large diameter parts. That *shing shing bong bong* gets hypnotic after a bit
wonderful video and a good lesson about teaching customers the best way of doing the job....
There's always that one customer. I guess he's paying good cause this is not his first job.
Outstanding and impressive work of art, at my 71 years of age I still enjoy every second of it, most kind of you for sharing it with us, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
Thank you, glad you like it.
@@ChrisMaj most kind of you gentleman, thanks, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
Nice work Chris. Loved the slow-mo on the interrupted cuts.
The job was boring, I had to make the video somewhat interesting 😅
Gday Chris, you weren’t wrong when you said there was plenty of turning, big job mate, cheers
Sometimes, I think I would be better off getting paid for all the pounds of chips I make .
@@ChrisMaj ROFL 🤣
Lovely piece of turning 👌 thanks for sharing 👍
Customer supplied material is always fun especially when it´s some piece of "Mystery steel"
when the C45 on the drawing turns out to be something in the ballpark of 1.8550+QT :D
Or they send you "Stainless" and it turns out to be Inconel 625 ..i.. :D ... been there done that.
Charge them enough to pay for a PMI gun and some training 😅
@@jimsvideos7201 excellent idea actually! :D
It might have been easier to bore out the center hole first to cure the massive runout, but then you'd need a bullnose live center in the tailstock. You got some beautiful end results, though.
Oh how I feel your pain, it's like "Customer supplied pattern" in the foundry... 🤐
The things that could have been made from this beautiful 4340 material instead of chips 😅
@@ChrisMaj so much lost material
@@lancer2204 I guess those pieces were some "leftover" from another project or just botched products, and the customer had the choice either to "scrap it and buy new material" or "pay more for the man-hours and save on material" - and it just worked out that the second option was more economic for him after all.
Dunno, but there has to be some reason behind it - although I have no idea how labour cost here stacks against material cost. "Whoy knows" as they say here... ;-)
Very impressed!
Nice work as always sir
As always, great video👍😊
4340 is tough stuff. Especially with interrupted cuts. I’ve found Sumitomo CNMM###ENP AC6040P inserts work well for roughing. I do a lot of aerospace 4340M and 300M very interrupted cuts.
Tough stuff ?
We machine 1.4468 and 1.4501
Oh nice i think cnmm are betther then cnmg cnmg are i think for medium ore ligth cutts no hogging material
Man that flat spot! No fun. But that VTL boring bar extension was very cool to see.
9:30 thank you for being ahead of my intusive thoughts 😂 everytime I see it Im like "Danger spaghetti" and I wanna touch it. I dont, because I like all my fingers, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt tempted!
Man, watching that interrupted cut makes me think of butter bot.
"What is my purpose? Making parts?"
"No, you intermittently hog out material"
"... Oh my God"
yea, welcome to the club pal
You know it is a win-win for the customer, but they still have to be charged for the extra time and tooling that a big eccentric part will require
I had a home gamer job making some pins for hydraulic equipment. Customer supplied material, which turned out to be 4140 hard chromed + induction hardened bar, salvaged from old hydraulic rods (he rebuilds the machines).
The cost of the CBN inserts I used up getting through that induction hardening would have paid for fresh stock. And my God, the amount of chrome dust I had to clean off my lathe bed was a nightmare...
Don't act like you don't love plowing through steel with a gnarly interrupted cut 😂
You do nice work.
Beautiful Machine Work!
Nice video, thank you 😊
Втулки просто 🔥👏👏
without a doubt, what a great job!
I feel your pain Chris, BTDT - more times than I care to remember.
Mate should be thankful the customer supplied blanks didnt come already hardened. Gotta love customers! :D
Ouch!, customer thought I'll get rid of those big rounds, whats hollow bar?
Great job as always Chris.
Thanks for sharing
Oh wow, those got HT real hard. Do you guys run any trepan tools at your shop?
A British bloke had a YT channel with tons of trepanning in exotic matl using homemade tools, until the Brexit they wanted put the shop under. It was an excellent channel.
Dave sold a trepanning tool to Chris. Brexit was nothing to do with his shop closing.
His wife was terrified of him running a one man shop (he was a fan of Charles Darwin so was well up on ecological niches).
The EU is without question something of a 'protection racket' you should talk to the inhabitants of a few North African nations about being on the receiving end of it with their fragile economies!
If you're talking about David Wilks and Tooltek then he closed his shop in 2020: "Closed down after 30 years. life goes on. Tooltek finished", ruclips.net/video/HGlvEIvaOHY/видео.html
Seems to me that trepanning is so "out of the line" of any regular machining shop that it's just not worth keeping the tools and all for once in a blue moon job - and that's why there were shops like Tooltek, doing only that. If you have jobs like this one here just hog out the material, charge the customer and that's it - till the next time.
Love to see David Wilks make the most insane difficult trepanning jobs 3 to 4 meters deep with in tight tolerances. His calm voice and special English accent. Some times the cutout material core from expensive materials can pay the trepanning tool price. There are some of the shelf tools for that diameter but properly not able to cut in that debt we could see here. I've used one of the shelf tool for material thickness of 60 mm from either Iscar or Sandvik.
No, we don't have any trepanning tools. Yeah, David had a really good channel.
I had to stop the video to see which machine was squeeking great content as normal Chris
lovely..thankhyou share
After heat treatment why not grind the od and hone the Id instead of hard turning ? Awesome work none the less
There was still 0.100" stock on the OD and ID. Little too much for grinding.
BIG VTL secretly identifies as ISO50 mill ;-D
yeah I love those jobs man, chips on end and all you gotta do is watch and wait and drink coffee... best life :D
Our shop loves to give you the smallest amount of material so you have to do funky setups in the mill😅
Uhhg…. I hate trying to grip material in the lathe by only .150”…
maybe they should start shaving off money where there is too much already anyways? :3 (usually in the office)
Sometimes, if they just got you that extra 1/4" it would make your job a lot easier.
@@sicstar got that right. So much overhead on the management side of things.
Okay i bite: why switch to the VTL? Single pass boring?
I don't have a boring bar long enough for my lathe.
All that rough machine work. Got a good forge shop in the area? Could they have reforged the material into a sleeve? Would it have paid?
Would have saved about 4/5 the material cost - although that did look like salvaged shafting.
Hey Chris, would trepanning these have been possible? It would save a lot of time and inserts.
If you have the tooling for trepanning lying around and your machine is set up for it you defo have a point here. Also you get a nice free chunk of round stock then!
Don't have tools for that.
@@ChrisMaj Making trepanning tools you need quit a bit of material, good one too or the corners where the inserts are mounted are going to break/wear trough pretty quickly. And it takes half a day usually. And the setup. Im no pro at it but imo its not very viable anymore nowadays except you want bonus material. Just cutting it away is way faster usually woth what inserts and stuff we have nowadays.
Great job as usual Chris!! But I suspect that you were(possibly still are) pissed off at the waste of time money and energy it took to get those made. As well as being bored out of your head by the repetitiveness of endless cuts for something essentially so simple…..
Lovely watching you work buddy 👍
Good thing I get paid per hour 😅
The zoom in on the clearance lmao
i like the way the lathe changes speeds depending on the diameter. mine doesn't do that.
Fantastic work Chris. Out of curiosity, what was the total weight of the material removed from these parts?
I have no idea.
You can work it out from initial dimensions of the workpieces and the finished items - density of steel is about 7.8-7.8 g/cm3, so when you substract the volume of finished piece from initial volume you can estimate it pretty close.
Curtis from CEE asked his viewers, in the video in which he was making a toolpost for a lathe, what is the weight of the finished toolpost - and some people got it pretty much spot on.
Here, ruclips.net/video/d84weTMG7ek/видео.html
I used to do TONS of volumetric calculations, still have 0.283 pounds per cubic inch memorized.
These days? Couldn't care enough to pay attention
So, which boss did you make mad enough to get all of the customer supplied stock jobs?
I get the feeling its his shop, so I imagine everyone else there refused 😂
@@irishwristwatch2487 no, not his.
I get paid per hour, so I don't really care what they are doing in the office. As long as the chip conveyor is running, I'll fucken make chips all day 😅
@IrishWristwatch I just punch in, make a ton of chips and punch out.
@@ChrisMaj I am there with you. I learned a long time ago that it doesn't really matter who your boss is and to fly under the radar, keep your nose clean, and do what you are supposed to be doing.
I start my new job at a heavy forge shop in two weeks. Lathe work and vbms. All material made in house.
Too bad you couldn't tell them that company policy for supplied material was that they have to shovel the chips because the conveyor's busted. Also that stringy bastard at 9:50 or so is meaner-looking than razor wire. 😯
Clearance is clearance 😂 13:02
In this case it would be a good idea to make a trepanning to save the excess material for future projects.
We don't need processing fees for car sales processing, we just need to leave the scrap iron.
Hi Chris! The extension on the goodway is it good or…..I look to make one on mine to.
@@garfl911 can't go crazy with it, but it works.
what is the story on half round boring bar?
We used to have this smaller lathe, and the boring bar wouldn't fit in the toolpost.
I see a shaft sleeve that could be from a pump, already treated, the only thing is that sometimes they get deformed.
would be interesting to know the selling price of that job...
i hope with that interrupted cut it's double what they usually pay lol
they find that material in the scrap bin?
Yeah, you buy one piece and get 2 for free 😅
How many pounds of chips are got on average in a week??
Well, that depends. One week I'll make 1 ton of chips and then I'll make a ton of chips in few hours.
Good job Chris, hey did you hook up an air line at the spindle bore rear? Looks like and sounds like it. I have done the same and the air pressure blows the chips back into the machine conveyor. Then once you have your shoulder in the bore you can run the coolant and it will flush chips out normally.
Замечательно! А можно узнать сколько оборотов и подачу до и после закалки?
what are this parts going to be used for?
No idea
Whatever they saved in material costs probably cost them in labour. At least you still get paid!
Sam wiercisz Otwór czy na wytaczarce ci przewiercają?
Wiercili na wytaczarce .
Running this exact lathe, my biggest issue is chip control. If I can't MacGyver a aluminum sheet shield, it's just a mess all over. Any tips?
I prefer y customer supplies the material, it improves my cashflow when I don’t have to pay for something 30-60 days before I get paid... if they want to waste money let them, as long as you’re getting paid for removing it all, it doesn’t matter.
curious why you left so much on for machining after heat treat- does it really change that much (length 15.590 vs 15.501, OD 10.020 vs 9.917)?
That insert for hard turning looks like it works pretty well. How much were you taking off???
There was 0.050" per side, so I took two cuts.
I'm a german lathe operator and always wanted to work in an other country "not EU" cuz we don't have the same measurements, and we use CM. at the start of this video i was more than confused with all the 3/16" or 10 7/8" i know i would be lost AF xd
I was born and raised in Poland, and I finished trade school there. Then I moved to the US, and believe me, inches were confusing at the beginning, but I got the hang of it.
Hi, im from the UK, its MM and Metres here now, big government push in 1970s to use the metric system, being a small country, we needed to export our machines, but didn't last very long. I fully understand why the USA has not completely adopted the Metric system, because it is such a large country, and the cost of converting or replacing machine tools would be to high.
I was 8 years old when our schools started teaching metric, and we changed to 100 pennies in a pound (was 240), when i started my engineering apprenticeship in 1978, we used both systems, and on nearly always imperial/inchs calibration tools.
Best regards John
@@bostedtap8399 until they come up with metric time and no timezones I won't be affected by people telling us to use metric (not you specifically, just Europeans that harp on it all the time.)
I do use a ton of metric in my day to day life as is. I use a lot of inches and feet too. I also use 1/2 this shovel apart and one of these sticks high.
Think of it more as the US being multilingual in measures instead of languages.
@@bac1308 The french did put forward base ten hour system after their revolution, alongside metrification. If Europeans looked a few centuries back, each had their own measurement system, and so for the rest of the civilized world. Any way, keep taking a lot of no notice as they say here. Regards John.
you're doing this on an NC lathe?
Yes sir
Had a customer supplied used piece of tool steel material break in the lathe during machining; apparently was two pieces welded together…
🙄
Man that takes the cake for the shittiest blueprint ever lol, okay maybe not the worst but definitely a weird one for me.
What about trepanning? Saves lots of material
It dose if you have the tools for it.
Alguna vez hicieron ese maquinado de bujes ó camisas de ese diametro en torno convencional sin utilizar insertos??
Where are all these flawed forgings coming from?
Junk yard 😅
A tactic i found works really well for getting through that kind of interrupted cut is super deep DOC .003-5 feedrate. Not trying to tell you how to do it though, just something i found worked well on big stuff, cheers.
I am gonna guess is this "supplied" stock was something the customer had lying around.
Pourquoi la première pièce est désaxée avec un plat en plus ??? C'est juste à cause du brut ??! 👍👍👍
You'd be learning the hard way if you did think about it 😂
Anytime a customer wants to supply material for me, I ask them exactly what dimensions the material is before I can quote it.
If the customer can't or won't give me exact material dimensions, I will put it in writing that my quote is based on material being a specific size, any other material dimensions must be re-quoted.
Le coût machine doit être important vu la matière enlevé d une part puis le durcissement d une autre part car les conditions de coupe ne sont pas les mêmes.
Puis normalement il faut rajouter le coût matière et le coût humain.
Customer supplied anything is automatically premium rate 😂😂😂
Well, I sure hope they did quote him accordingly.
@@ChrisMaj Hopefully!
I know that you are just a worker there but if I was the owner of the shop , I would just refuse this job. AND probably told the customer they should fire somebody , because they have idiots working for them...
Yeah, being a repair shop you get all kinds of crazy shit and that's where you make more money cause no one wants to do it. 😅
Dimensions in inches? I thought you guys are from Europe
He's Polish but works in the US from my understanding.
I work in the US
I would like to think that this customer had these pieces "laying around" or obtained them at a tremendous discount from some other source.
What a huge waste of material.
Regularie, u should never use coolant when working with ceramic inserts.
And often fullmaterial is much cheaper than pipe/tube.
And easier and faster to get on the market .
But good job anyway ☝️
Had to remove like 90%.... no better solution for such parts? some sort of pipe or...? Had to be a day of roughing or something
Sometimes you just have to say " I think we may have a more economical approach " ................
When customers ask me if they can supply the material I reply would you take a steak to a steakhouse
What a waste of material 🙂
Tell me about it 😅
Bore the hell out of this thing🤣
Talking shit of customers is never a good thing....
Psssh
Martin Richard Thomas Helen Martin William
Those pieces looked like scrap from a steel mill.
Knowing that customer, they probably are 😅
I think your statement isn’t totally accurate in the sense that all you have to do is discuss it beforehand with the client. In the spirit of them saving money (which is totally understandable) they may not think about your needs or even care about your expectations. But if you talk and if they trust you many times people will reason. Looking at this from what you’ve shown, I don’t see the issue. I was expecting to see square stock or scrap. Great work despite the challenges as usual.