Why The Battle of Geonosis Was WAY Worse Than You Realize| The Day the Jedi Became Mortal
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180 dead Jedi
180 lightsabers
Grevious: *heavy breathing*
AT LEAST 180 Lightsabers! Given that some of them used two (or more), there were propably enough Sabers for two Grievous!
He was there too atleast in legends!
*cyborg orgasm*
Centipevious
*heavy wheezing
30 out of 212 is a survival rate of 14.15%. That kind of loss rate would get a General or Admiral in the U.S. Military Fired. The Republic may have won that day, but the Jedi lost. The Jedi should be reserved for far less dangerous situations. It makes me remember what Qui-Gon Jin told Queen Amidala in Episode One; _I can only protect you, I cannot fight a war for you._
With that in mind, it makes sense that Mace Windu doesn't seem to be in charge of too many missions throughout the different Clone Wars media.
I get what you're saying and I do agree. But I think when Qui-Jon said that, it was mostly implying that "I can protect you but overall I can't interfere with internal affairs". like attacking or leading the charge since jedi are suppose to remain neutral. You can even see as they walk through the hanger that obi wan and qui jon were in the back. It was when maul appeared that now they had every right to interfere
The jedi were never meant to be warriors, you can even tell from their equipment, they wear no armor and their only weapon is the lightsaber, an archaic weapon totally unsuited for battle.
@@arx3516 Unsuited f- dafuq you say?? One lightsaber in the right hands can obliterate entire armies!
This generation of Jedi was not ready for the coming conflict, I'll give you that. They're untested, more used to being diplomats than frontline Generals, but the Jedi are the guardians of the Republic and have been for literal millennia with great success.
if that one jedi didnt make a deal with buying the clones. they would had been screwed here lol. also if they didnt train anakin they also would had been goners lol
As Depa Billaba told Mace on Haruun Kal "We lost because the Geonosians already knew that they were at war with us, while we went in thinking there was still a peace to keep. You were thinking like a Judicial when you should have been thinking like a General"
Mace then asks her "And what would a General have done?"
She replies "A General would have dropped a baradium bomb on that arena from orbit; wiped out all the enemy commanders in one stroke and saved the galaxy at the cost of two Jedi and one Senator. Instead we lost almost two hundred Jedi in a botched rescue mission and the galaxy was plunged into a war"
Unfortunately that's not the jedi way :v
This organization likes to walk to their deaths 🤔
Damnn thats dope, from what source material is this?
@@stijnbarneveld3999 It's from the novel 'Shatterpoint' by Matthew Stover - part of the original Clone Wars Multimedia Project from 2002-2005 ... most of which was superseded by the 2008 Clone Wars series, but it's still a good read
@@ZoeMalDoran Now that’s some gangster shit!
@@mikaelrivacov5705 Jedi Scum. Sith fools. None of them understand aggressive defensive. If the Grey Jedi ruled, Dooku, Anakin, Vos...so many more allies. Jedi like Yoda would be able to live out a peaceful monk like existence.
If only.
The biggest problem they had was that they were not a military force. They were a diplomatic and law enforcement force with a military tradition. Basically they were more like us marshals, and secret service agents. And they approach this operation like a law enforcement situation. In which they are going to come arrest the ring leaders and possibly sanction the geonosians. They only then realize that this is a different situation. A situation that most have only heard about in the pre Rusan republic era. And so even after they get the clones you see them deploy in a rather textbook style. One Jedi leading a platoon of soldiers as they would have in the pitched battles of russan since that was the tactical book they had it had never been updated.
^ thank you for the detail, informative.
wtf does russia have to do with anything
@@ihatehandles69420 sorry ruuson reformation the last actual battle the Jedi fought was on ruuson when the last sith empire was destroyed after that the republican army was disbanded, the sith adopted the rule of two and the Jedi became bodyguards, political bully men, and law enforcement.
@@ihatehandles69420 Rusaan, it was the source of the war that led to the Star Wars equivalent of the Treaty of London
It's like sending your four best SWAT teams - but the enemy shows up with tanks, light artillery and air support.
Obi-wan does say "Without the Clones, it would not have been a victory." So the devastation is all the more apparent. Also love Jango's gun twirl after killing Coleman.
It's Yoda's comment that's most apt but blink, OR, NOT pay attention to it, and you have missed the whole point of Episode 2.
'Victory' says Yoda with a look of disappointment and dare we say disgust, 'Victory' again says Yoda.
The Shroud of the Darkside has Fallen. The Clone Wars have begun. "
Yoda mentions that only the Lord of Sith really knows what's going on.
Yoda, the Jedi Grandmaster could not see past the Darkness.
Yoda finally sees a decade later when fighting Sidious in another blink and you'll miss it. Yoda finally sees how the Sith overcame the Jedi. The mistake of partaking in the Clone Wars.
Yes, it had taken the Sith a Millenia and one more decade to wipe out an Order that had blinded itself and unfortunately assisted a corrupt Republic.
However. . . It's Yoda also sees past the arrogance of Sidious who after 1,000 years repeats the exact mistake Yoda makes.
In the throes of his arrogant fuelled fantasies, Sidious misses the fact that Anakin still lives within Vader.
Vader's preoccupation with killing Jedi, predominantly Obi-Wan Kenobi, follows him for 20 plus years until he kills him . . but . . . way too late.
Sidious should have let Starkiller kill Vader and not the other way around.
Obi-Wan and Yoda carefully fuelled the little hope there was left. Yoda went into voluntary exile to correct his own arrogance and the arrogance that had been installed in the Jedi Order.
It is through Yoda's patience and perseverance that the Chosen Ine brought balance to the Force.
@@FrostedSeagull I've always caught Yoda's reaction, but never thought of it to this extent. Brilliant analysis.
@@FrostedSeagull so ttrue !
With the clones it was a massacre.
I meeean... the official guides state that Mace brought over 200 Jedi to Geonosis, and those dozen or so in the center right before the Clones show up were all that were left, AFTER ONLY A FEW MINUTES OF FIGHTING.
Approximately 190 Jedi killed in less than five minutes? Yeah, devastating doesn't BEGIN to describe that.
in shatterpoint, depa says to mace that if they had used a nuke on geonosis, sacrificed anakin obi wan and padme for the greater good, the galaxy would be at peace
the separatist leadership would all have been killed, no clone war erupting beyond geonosis
dooku, grievous (he was also on planet) and all the bank rollers of the confederacy would be dead
the sith would be halved and no easy replacement for sidious
200 more jedi survive and the war is averted, and with his plan rather screwed up, the remaining jedi could turn their attention to finding sidious
@@TheHiddenFear Hindsight is 20/20, they were unaware of Sidious at the time, unaware Dokuu was a Sith Lord. Even unaware of General Grievous' existence.
@@dylandenton7576 Weell... that was AFTER Depa has very much fallen to the Dark Side. Mercilessly nuking thousands of people en masse is not the Jedi Way. Nor do I believe the Jedi would even have the authority to call down a nuke strike without permission from the Republic, and you KNOW Palpatine wouldn't have okayed that since the Clone War occurring was central to his plan.
@@traveltime3328 Ummm... we don't?? We're just stating the things that actually happened in the story.
@@TheHiddenFear and according to the new canon the force would have conceived another chosen one to kill Darth Sidious later on
Mace's arrogance killed more Jedi than the droids did. The message from Kenobi said it was a droid foundry, they knew there was an army.
I mean I'm not even kidding. There were other more obvious and better tactics to use and preparations that wouldn't have taken much time to implement. For one thing guerilla style attacks. All they needed to do was to keep the Geonosians distracted and busy until Yoda arrived with the clones. It couldn't have been more than maybe 2 hours from the time the fight started until the clones arrived. A bomb or two outside the gate would have gotten their attention enough to stop the beasts from killing the three until they could check the threat level. and then another couple inside the stadium would have enough of a threat to postpone the killing of the captives. The killing of Padme was important enough to witness by the Trade Federation, not to mention nobody wanted to miss the spectating of two Jedi especially as famous as Anakin and Obi wan they would have been taken back to cells, which would end up providing for their safety. As long as Mace and his force kept the Geonosians hunting them, no Jedi would be in real danger. However there was a big issue the Jedi was contending with. Mace Windu: “I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished.”
Yoda: “Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed, the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.” The Jedi, without the Sith to cause trouble, had become complacent living off the Republic and pretty much serving the Republic and it's whim. The Jedi even ignoring injustices in the galaxy because the Republic was ignoring them. The Council to finally and suddenly admit to themselves they were straying from the will of the Force weakening them. The Republic relatively had peace and was unprepared for war. Even though the Jedi were not to engage in war on anyone's behalf just dumped it on the Jedi. After having lived fat on the Republic for so long and not willing to give up their reputation or place in the galaxy, took up the sword for the republic and didn't tell anyone they had been losing the power of the Force. Pride, caused Mace to handle Geononis how he did. He wanted to prove that the Jedi were as powerful and the leading authority of Right as they always had been. He really believed that the Jedi, especially himself, were just better and superior to everything in the galaxy. If the Jedi had pulled off the battle as they were attempting, then they could have stopped the war, the separatists all at once before the war could get started and proving the might of the Jedi in one battle, in such a way no one would ever dare challenge the Republic or the Jedi again.
What isn't so clear in the movie, although it's there, is that the Jedi and their work was done quietly, which is proper, the Jedi do not seek fame and glory. Not that they were really in the last years they were really doing the will of the Force, but rather that of the Republic, which had been coming under fire by the faceless masses for ignoring the plight of the oppressed while catering to the elite. Which is why Sidious Chose this time to put his plans in effect. The Republic had became complacent and wasn't serving the interests of all equally. The Jedi having been keeping such a low profile that the bulk of the galaxy forgot about them, either they were old myths or just never existed. Not only did "Emperor Palpatine" save the galaxy from the Corrupt Republic and their secret masters the Jedi, he destroyed them completely. Thus earning the trust of the people and slandering them so badly that the name Jedi provoked so much hatred and concern was reported to the authorities. So much so that even years under the Empire the people started to see the Empire for what it was and giving the Rebellion legitimacy, Luke Skywalker's name was never referenced as a Jedi. Even the Rebel Alliance as a whole never knew he was a Jedi.
Yes but what he misses was there were more than "hundreds" of droids in this fight. There were 10,000 droids to be exact, that fought the 200 Jedi. Most of the Jedi were knights but that's still 50 droids to every one Jedi. And like said they were flanked and hit from all sides. And there were 1 million droids on the planet in total which faced off against the 200,000 clone rescue force. Now what's funny is they outnumbered the clones at least 5 to 1 and got smacked but didn't expect them and wanted to save the CORE ships rather than risk them since they lacked a fleet at the time.
Like you said the Jedi knew droids were there because Obi Wan fought droidekas before his recording went out in addition to him saying there was a factory. They probably thought there might be hundreds or only so many still they obviously overestimated their abilities But it's funny because even during the Naboo incident Qui Gon and Obi Wan found and reported the droid force was larger than anticipated. So in a way, they got duped the same way twice.
In legends, Mace and Luminara got in two Republic turbotanks and escorted three Republic ground transports. The transports had turrets on them and held dozens of Jedi. Mace and Luminara were skilled vehicle drivers, they took down multiple stationary turrets protecting the arena as well as CIS vehicles to get there.
That was in a video game. But honestly, if they detected those kind of forces just to find the arena, then it's obvious they might need a backup plan. I guess that was Yoda all a long but you'd think they'd at least have some armed Republic corvettes (like the ship in TPM which can take moderate damage) as backup. Those things are like the middle ground between gunships and light cruisers/corvettes. Bombardment from them could take down dozens or even hundreds of droids then exact knights.
The CIS still did not have a fleet yet so that would be enough to handle the Genosian fighters. And obviously, those Jedi didn't just deploy from starfighters, it would be impractical to have 200 Jedi fly to the area in individual fighters plus they'd all need to land different places. So I'm wondering what happened to their air support.
Even in Legends they need light cruisers to drop off those gunships. Maybe they got destroyed but I'm not sure. There is another problem too though. The Yinchorri conflict showed that many Republic light cruisers don't even have turrets or guns. So they are useless in combat. They have shields to tank shots but would be force to retreat in an engagement. But during a known conflict, you'd obviously send the armed ships.
Grand Master Yoda and a few other masters came to understand that they were as much the cause of the fall of the Jedi as Sidious and Vader, maybe more so. Even as far as training Luke, Obi Wan and Yoda tried to stick to training more than history. Sure they never mentioned how dirty their hands were, they needed to fix the imbalance they were partially responsible for. They couldn't yet give Luke a reason to doubt them. Yoda refusing to train Luke because of his age was a trick to drive Luke to want to be a Jedi and save the galaxy. They very rarely told him what he could or couldn't, even if they thought he was wrong, usually to make him stop and think about it to get him to not respond emotionally with out thinking first. Later after Luke saved his father and Anakin destroyed Palpatine restoring the balance, They would tell Luke more details about the fall of the Jedi. Mostly left Luke alone sometimes coming back to help him find old temples and records. They let Luke alone to rebuild the Jedi, they failed the Force and the Jedi so they didn't want to influence Luke and inadvertently lead to another Fall. That's why Luke did things that the old Jedi would not approve of yet Luke never fell to the dark side. Luke understood that it isn't how you used the Force that led to the Dark Side, it's what you use the Force for. It's not about denying your emotions, it's about embracing and controlling your emotions. After all being self aware and having emotion are defining characteristics of a sentient life form.
Had no idea how miserable this battle was and the terrible consequences it led to.
Anakin survived. It can't get more miserable than that. I'm pretty sure all the Jedi who lost someone close that day would have gladly swapped Teen Vader's life for just another moment with their lost comrades.
Fr
Yeah, if only the movie would focus on them... lol
@@dn22pkkdd476 Vader or no vader, having such a high rate of casualties is a disaster to say the least, they weren't even facing a big bad guy there, just a standard army
The jedi were slaughtered on Geonosis because of their arrogance , none of them were ever in a real battle.
But they thought that they were the ultimate warriors in the galaxy , they believed their own hype .
They felt that they had destroyed the Sith and didn't have any equals , when in reality they didn't destroy anyone .
Darth Bane killed every Sith except for himself and the jedi walked around patting themselves on the back for the next thousand years while the Sith grew stronger .
I said above, what happened to the jedi was a mirror to the clans in battletech in 3052 at tukayyid
Not at all to take away from our own vets but it’s like saying in the USA that WE defeated the Germans in WWII. No, 95% didn’t, your father or grandfather did. You are new to war and have not been through the same crucible.
Ahsoka Vs Thrawn Leak m.ruclips.net/video/I4JhtYvMl7M/видео.html
@@nicolaimyshkin4116 you are missing my point. The same philosophy in our world saying WE won the Second World War isn’t true. The Jedi order of the clone wars era thought THEY defeated the Sith. They didn’t, a harder more deadly order a thousand years before did, granted they are the decedents, physically or philosophically. Almost none of the order never saw any Sith going back several generations at best and twenty or more if using humans as an example.
@@nicolaimyshkin4116 Not Britain, there wasnt really any way they could have invaded over the channel
I always loved the moment Mace walks up behind them and puts his blade up to Jango and Jango gets scared pulls it together and gives Mace Windu the death stare like get that thing outta my face
Startled and scared aren't the same thing.
It’s crazy that it’s such an underrated moment in Star Wars, so so underlooked understandable that even as a Star Wars fan you wouldn’t even realize how hard this defeat was.
It's called a killbox... the jedi walked rt into it
The ultimate highly trained warriors with precognition abilities fell for the oldest trick in the book. Typical star wars honestly lol.
@@MrBottlecapBill lmao 🤣 to true
@@MrBottlecapBill I figure they were probably too confident in their abilities. If you see the sword, you can miss the dagger.
Jesus Christ is lord.
Please read Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself to understand. It’s in the inner work Jesus Christ taught that reveal the Bible as truth. Start by forgiving your parents. It’s an important step in adulthood. They’re people too, they’ve loved you. Genuinely clean out that inner gunk there. Acts like this are how we show our faith. It isn’t belief alone, it’s actions based on belief. Genuinely taking Jesus Christ’s lessons to heart are the key. Please break down before him and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
@@MrBottlecapBill they were used to police style missions during this timeline, not big battles. 200 Jedi rushed against an army 10,000 droids and out them in a position where they were completely outnumbered and surrounded
I was at the Battle of Geonosis. I was there trying to find a company to produce a range of bug zappers. I saw the entire battle from one of the VIP boxes in the stadium. It was great to watch. The highlight was when Yoda showed up. That was certainly a twist.
Lol
Can you speak in click like a Geonosian? 🤔
The funniest thing to me is that Mace Windu tries to arrest Dooku via intimidation by coming up behind him yet he could have simply ran the man through with his lightsaber.
That's something Maul would do. Not Windu or any other Jedi for that matter. Even Anakin hesitated to kill Dooku in ROTS.
@@anidriX Oh I know its just... amusing to me that the Jedi value honour over I dunno the lives of 300 jedi :D
bUt It'S nOt ThE jEdI wAy~~
Actually, choosing to suspend judgement and not to act is also a decision, and makes you culpable for the consequences. Killing Dooku may be wrong, but letting him kill lots of other people is also wrong. You can't say with a straight face in the latter situation 'but hey, I didn't kill anyone, I'm good'. In any real life situation, letting something happen is also bad, whether at work, or watching a child get hit by a bus.
After that humiliating defeat Obi Wan learned about the benefits of the high ground
Well given the terrain in the arena, he also probably appreciated Anakin's disdain for sand.
@@jonathonpolk3592 "I feel you bro" moment haha
It was more surprising that the jedi had never trained in mass movements. They could have easily force jumped around rather then letting themselves get encircled. Force pushing. Force pulling. Etc. I mean yodas proven to be able to manipulate huge objects during his fight with count dooku.
And luke learned how to lift a starfighter. So force pulling battledroids to use as a body shield should have been a no brainer, but nope, non of that.
All they seemed to use was their lightsaber.
I think it was more from being unprepared and caught off guard. Most of the Jedi probably have never been in a battle that grand before. From my understanding of the force you need to remain calm and allow yourself to connect with the force to use its power. Which is hard to do with blaster fire everywhere and your fellow Jedi dying around you, causing fear and panic.
@@jameshart4896 maybe, it seems like the jedi carry themselves more like ronin samurai, rather then an army. Their great on 1v1 1vsmall groups etc but when it comes to the dynamics of armies vs armies, they lacked the coordination.
@@jonoestreicner Pretty much. Around the time of the clone wars you could say the Jedi have gotten "soft". Since at that point they practice fighting styles for staying in shape, rather then getting stronger. This can be seen that even with the clone wars were most times fighting against the sith the Jedi mostly fought them 3v1 or 2v1. The exception being Mace or Yoda. This is also what allowed Sidous plan to go so flawlessly. (Well almost anyway)
So basically they lost because the did not use the force to win.....MY thoughts exactly!!!
Ironically, it is an 'attachment' to their identity as a Jedi, and how the lightsaber bestows that identity on them. KOTOR 2 talks about this a LOT. Since lightsaber = Jedi, and they are Jedi, all they're gonna use is the lightsaber.
Bruce Lee's philosophy of being formless is about that - don't be attached to any aspect of yourself, let alone any weapon or tactic. Do what is best in that situation regardless of who you are or what you are used to.
Worked out in Palpy's favor tho
Windu: "I'm going to Geonosis, Chancellor"
Palpatine: "master Jedi I don't think that's a good idea..."
"And I'm taking 200 jedi with me"
"Say less fam, good luck lol"
I guess showing up, announcing the Jedi are here while being completely surrounded, seemed like a great idea at the time....assuming the other side is going to surrender without fighting. Windu got 182 Jedi killed.....and they made him a General after that and the Grand Master of the Jedi Council.
Why blame Windu and not Yoda? At least Mace went to fight while Yoda went on vacation on Kamino. If Mace had nothing and Anakin/Padme/Kenobi had died you would still blame him for not taking action...In the long run those three were much more important than those brave Jedi that died.
Speaking from a strictly tactical standpoint, the battle of Geonosis has always been a "WTF" moment for me (having only the movie as a reference point). That first clash scene where the Jedi charge the battle droids coming out of the tunnel; why? Why would anyone do this? Seeing if just for but a few moments that your opponent has even the potential to be far superior numerically... your next move is to bum rush them? What?! I mean, my goodness, it's like the Jedi hadn't seen a battlefield tactics manual in over a thousand generations.
in the novelisation, mace is only concerned with the geonosians. i dont think he believed they had the droids readyh to turn against them, believing the geonsians would be the footsoldiers of the planet, which makes sense as it was their planet. the geonosians are also fairly spindly, and flying aside, arent a match for a jedi unless they overwhelm them, or get lucky
mace even said one jedi had to be worth at least ten geonosians i think it was, so hed be quite happy to confront 20000 of them and likely would still be fine as they werent that dangetous a threat
b1s are slightly more dangerous, but b2s and droidekas...all combined in a killing field, they had no chance, as dooku knew and anticipated and let the jedi stumble into the trap so much so only twenty were left standing, with a few fallen wounded surviving
losing virtually 2% of the order in one battle is rather demoralising for anyone involved, especially when the ones most culpable, ie yoda, mace etc who ordered them there, are still alive to deal with the consequences of their failure
@@TheHiddenFear Thank you for the clarification from an alternate source that I hadn't honestly seen before. When it's put that way, the movie kind of doesn't do the novelisation justice because the working perception from that source upon seeing the droid fighters would be something like 'ok, this is just a separatist bodyguard, no big deal, we can mow through them' and so allow themselves to be beguiled into getting surrounded.
To quote HK-47 "Mines can also be effective as many Jedi will rush to engage their opponents in melee combat. Silly Jedi"
LEEROY JENKINS!!!!
It was 200 Jedi that rushed to save Kenobi. The team was mainly knights. Normally that would be enough to dominate any fight. They generally don't have to think things through that much. They usually have every advantage in terms of ability. But here, the strategy was awful and they got themselves overwhelmed.
But most missions 50 is enough to defeat any faction or org.
I had no idea there were sooo many Jedi present in that battle. I'd have guessed maybe 50 were there. I don't think the movie adequately showed how many there actually were.
Alot of us hardcore fans knew this back then when the movie came out in 2002. I remember reading this in the movie novelization, and the Star wars insider I used to subscribe to.
I have seen the movie hundreds of times and knew as a 6 year old in 2004. You just gotta pay attention on the rewatches. 😂😂😂
I never even thought about any of this. I was just so caught up in the action to analyze this. Hearing about this is devastating. The Jedi always claimed that the Sith were arrogant, but what does this make them? Did they ever learn from their mistakes when Luke Skywalker became the grandmaster? I would really like to know.
Yes but what he misses was there were more than "hundreds" of droids in this fight. There were 10,000 droids to be exact, that fought the 200 Jedi. Most of the Jedi were knights but that's still 50 droids to every one Jedi. And like said they were flanked and hit from all sides. And there were 1 million droids on the planet in total which faced off against the 200,000 clone rescue force. Now what's funny is they outnumbered the clones at least 5 to 1 and got smacked but didn't expect them and wanted to save the CORE ships rather than risk them since they lacked a fleet at the time.
Also the Jedi knew droids were there because Obi Wan fought droidekas before his recording went out. But they probably thought there might be hundreds or only so many. But it's funny because even during the Naboo incident Qui Gon and Obi Wan found and reported the droid force was larger than anticipated. So in a way, they got duped the same way twice.
@@brianhanes5413 It was a bad idea to fight like that at all - swoop into the centre, expecting to rescue the hostages and arrest the ringleaders. They thought of themselves as cops and viewed the Separatists and Dooku as mobsters who would cower in the face of justice.
Instead, the Separatists were ready for war and fought like it was one. If the Jedi had treated this as a tactical situation instead of a 'you're all under arrest, bad boys', they should have sent the most lethal ones to kill the leadership in the viewing booth, use that distraction to grab the hostages, then hotfoot it out of there.
1000 years of them being the unquestioned moral leaders of the galaxy made them weak - a group of FBI personnel wouldn't last 2 minutes if you dropped them into a warzone.
Padme had the biggest plot armour in this battle she only had a gun
The issue with that battle is that Mace didn't seem to know when Yoda was arriving. If he doesn't intervene at that moment, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme probably wouldn't have survived. It's easy to say it was the wrong decision after the fact, but if he doesn't act immediately, they fail their mission which was to rescue the trio.
The Battle of Geonosis was my favorite sequence in the prequels. It was the moment when you knew that real Star Wars had arrived.
The Jedi forgot that Dooku was very familiar with the Jedi... and their weaknesses.
Ah, the first battle of Geonosis. I was assembled shortly after it, but I've seen memory records of multiple droids. Fascinating how much can be done by simple droids without any of later improvements.
It appeared as though, at the very beginning, Mace had caught Dooku and Jengo a bit by surprise. I wonder how this battle would have gone, if Mace had simply killed both of them at that moment. He appears to easily sneak up on them, and ignites his sabre next to Jengo's throat. Seems like it would have taken just a second or two to have taken them both down. BUT..... I suppose it is not the Jedi "WAY"........ just like his hesitation to dispatch with the Emperor when he had the chance.
In the book shatterpoint it’s narrated that in that moment Mace Windu basically had a vision or a premonition of the disastrous war that was to come and the Force showed him he could kill Dooku and end the entire war or kill Jango and save more lives that day.
But he could only kill one of them and not both and he killed Jango.
@@MomoTheDisciple Stupid decision… Dooku posed a much greater threat on all levels than Jango. I love Mace but he dropped the ball on that one
@@lemmihilldrix1450 he pretty much said the same thing to himself in the novel lol… he coulda stopped the whole Clone War if he sacrificed more Jedi lives that day
@@MomoTheDisciple Damn… that’s rough lol
Dooku was essentially the _only_ military mind among the Jedi Order. He was the only one who would have understood genuine military strategy and outside the dogma enough to see what was coming. If Quigon Jinn was still around maybe he would have been disillusioned and aware enough to notice the signs, but even he wasn't of the military persuasion. It's also unlikely the Jedi Council would listen to either properly. For all of the respect they supposedly had for the two little was actually considered beyond their rules and status quo.
The Jedi were constantly the architects of their own defeats until Luke. Their unwillingness to reform and their corruption of centuries dove them towards not just this but every defeat. They accepted slaves in the clones, and so when the master called their deaths were inevitable.
Yea there's no way this happens to the Jedi if Qui Gon was still alive
@@kurtpunchesthings2411 Especially since if Qui-Gon was still alive, Dooku would have never turned
Had he lived I think Dooku may have turned Qui Gon the way he tried to turn Obi Wan on Geonosis.
@@chrisricketts8059 Qui-Gon may not have agreed with the council, but he wouldn't go as far as turning Sith. And besides, Dooku turned to the Dark Side mostly because of the pain of losing his pupil, and if Qui-Gon was alive, he would either keep Dooku from turning or turn him back to the Light Side.
@@Marcelelias11 I agree Qui-Gon would not have turned Sith. However, Dooku put his ideals ahead of anything else, thus how we see him develop in the original telling of his backstory. If the Jedi at any point just _listened_ to Dooku and Qui-Gon and considered their points well, implementing where appropriate, there would be far less reason for either to leave or have tension with the Jedi and Dooku would have been at least relatively less susceptible to Sidious's seduction. Not guaranteeing Dooku stays with the Jedi, but he would be less likely to go full Sith.
If Qui-Gon were not Qui-Gone though he would have likely been ignored as he had been during the Naboo Crisis with the Battle of Geonosis. He likely would have had the awareness, self-restraint, and disenchantment necessary to take a step back and realize what was about to happen, connect the dots, but would be dismissed by the Jedi Council as it often had of such fears.
Also to take in consideration, is the jedi order has not fought in such a scale battle since the battle of Russan (Which where more than a thousand years by that point). The jedi at that moment, where more a police force of monks than a actual military force (And Dooku know that fact). So yeah, with all that in mind, that kind of result was expected.
"We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers."
Yup they believed the last Sith Lord was killed 700 years ago on Dagobah in the same cave Luke would later enter while training with yoda. After that fight they had no reason to continue fighting and ultimately lost their way leading to the force needing the Jedi to die in order to bring back the balance
@@sagrawolf that's literally entirely wrong.
1. Lost their way? Do you think the point of Jedi is to be epic warriors? The entire point of the original trilogy is that being a Jedi and a hero is more than being a killing machine. Thats why the twist that Yoda, this goofy puppet, is a Jedi Master is so important.
2. The Force did not kill them to bring back the balance. Balance in the Force is NOT "2 jedi to 2 sith" (which doesn't even work cos there were many jedi survivors and sith acolytes). Balance in the Force *means* that the Light side "wins". It means a balanced relationship between mortals and the Galaxy around them (literalised as the Force). That's literally the entire point of the saga. The light and dark sides are ways of relationship between individuals and the group: the former in balanced harmony, the latter in a master-slave control
The Jedi losing their way was when they stopped becoming moral crusaders for good and bowed to the necessities of the Republic and its institutions. Instead of wandering knight errants pursuing justice they became jannisaries and cops
@@FlameQwert you just told me I’m wrong then used the same point I mentioned so it’s clear you got upset over nothing
The novel also states mace had no idea about the droids. When dooku tells him they are impossibly outnumbered he says that one jedi is worth at least a hundred geonosians and dooku is like oh it wasn’t the geonosians I’m talking about how well would
One jedi do against a thousand battle droids!
Well, Mace Windu told it at the beginning of the movie : Jedi were peace keepers, not soldiers. More importantly, I suspect that the most harmful factor there was not lack of knowledge but pride. The jedi knew of the droid factories for Obi-Wan told them before his capture. They anticipated the number of droids, or the Senate would never have known it was needed to vote the creation of the Army of the Republic, ans Yoda would never have go on Kamino to recruit the clones. They knew... and they still went. Because, like Yoda stated before, Jedi were becoming proud of their legend, they felt invicible. And while Jedi are objectively overpowered compared to an average human or alien, they still have limits. They just forgot they had.
Something I pondered even as a child was what was the jedi exfil plan. Or were they expecting to simply wing it
That and having to send a gunship back into the arena later to pick up the two droids.
If I were jedi, I would have gotten to the higher ground and started throwing stuff at them with the force push/pull and then use my lightsaber to reflect the blast towards them.
This was equal to the battle of Shiroyama during the Satsuma Rebellion: outnumbered and outranged. No matter how skilled they were with the saber, numbers, terrain and inferior range played against them until there was almost no one left.
Love this video it brings up great points about them not believing that it would be a battle.
The fact that mace thought he could just capture dooku and the rest of the jedi appeared only then as a show of force once mace windu walked up to dooku. They had a risky tactic of infiltration surrounded by an army and then tried to ambush leaders which when surrounded by a far superior number it would be the only tactic that would work, it could have ended the war before it begun if it worked.
Unfortunately Dooku knew the exact way the jedi would have attacked.
Dooku was over here playing 5D Chess like a Master, meanwhile the Jedi were playing Checkers.
Why they abandoned Force speed is beyond me. They showed it once with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the beginning of episode 1 and they never showed it again. It could have been a really great tool for them to use in this battle. Worthy of recognition in the Jedi archives, but so many were slaughtered.
This is also what made Palpatine's plan so devious. He knew all these facts and wanted all this to go down this way to enact his eventual ultimate plan.
In episode 1 we see the jedi have a near mythic status, and at least one of them living up to it. Without proof they could be beaten, the CIS could never have gotten as big as it did
I didn't realize this battle had such casualties. I always just assumed they lost a few in hopes of saving a senator a jedi master and the "chosen one".
If the Jedi weren't so dumb, they would not have walked into the trap at Geonosis. They brought the massacre on themselves.
Imagine if you replaced the Jedi with Sith sorcerers.
Lightning storms would just obliterate anything electronic in the arena.
Hm.
The events on Geonosis have led me to deeply troubling reflections upon the subject of Jedi tactical and strategic doctrines for some time. Who is responsible for these consistently poor decisions is unclear. But what is clear is the lesson that no one without combat experience should have led so large a group into a battle which can only be likened to the Battle of the Crater during the historic American Civil War on Ancient Earth. The combat performance (and the casualty rates) of Clone Troopers pales next to the magnitude of the silly and tragic battle on Geonosis. The only area where Jedi seem to have and exercise a concrete advantage is Capital Ship combat. This is exactly how the situation on Geonosis ought to have been addressed. Fast strike planetary blockade. with a coordinated orbital bombardment of pinpoint targets would have brought Geonosis down before the first swing of a lightsaber. The employment of surgical droid team strikes would have been useful as well. The rout of the Jedi on Geonosis seems to have taken place in nothing less than a vacuum of unforgivable and bloody stupidity. It can also be seen as a continuing consequence of the lamentable doctrinal and spurious tactical commitment of Peacekeepers being used as Shock Troops. May The Force be with you.
If I remembered correctly, most of the victims of this battle were also users of form 6 of lightsaber combat.
If that is true, that kind of makes sense.
whats form 6 about?
@@shadesinsertlastname1631 its a more simplified, watered-down lightsaber style if you will, adopted by many jedi at the time since they mostly did diplomatic work anyway pre-war. The other lighsaber forms were more focused on different aspects of combat, more min-maxed.
Obligatory reminder that Exar Kun also used Form 6. It's not a bad form for combat, as it doesn't have a particular weakness for an enemy to exploit. It was more of a doctrinal and force of habit issue than a matter of using Form 6
Fantastic analysis! The only thing missing from it though was the added factor of Geonosian weaponry. The essential guide to weapons points out that the sonic blaster's blasts cannot be deflected by lightsabers
Another great analysis! Narratively, I think this scene served to show us the audience just why the Jedi purge would work in the next film. The Jedi lost this fight badly, but the arrival of the clones completely turned it around and they managed to win. This showed objectively that the clone army as a whole was more powerful than the Jedi, because the clones could win battles the Jedi could not. The Jedi were peacekeepers, not soldiers, and now that the galaxy was at war, they were being very effectively replaced.
Although at the time of release, we did not know about Order 66 specifically, we did know the Jedi were hunted down, and it was clear that the clones were the first generation of imperial stormtroopers. With this scene, we the audience were shown that although they were on the same side now, if these clones, these first stormtroopers, were to turn on the Jedi, the Jedi would lose.
Yea I just watched the series again yesterday and took note of the amount of them that Survived compared to the start of the battle when they were all over the arena... Great breakdown..
(Christopher Lee)
Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus ;
Master Windu, brave but foolish. You're impossibly outnumbered....
We actually saw the jedi's who tried to rescue our protagonists, near annihilation in the film itself.
Mere seconds before Yoda and the clones arrived - to save the day!
RIP Christopher Lee 😔
An outstanding actor!
Apart from Dooku, then Saruman DEFINITELY is his BEST character played!
Then don't forget Count Dracula 😁
@@maplesyrup7959 Yes RIP and agreed!
Saruman was awesome too!
Wow bro, you rember the very line, from the movie way back in 2002! 👏
@@tastymochalatte7699 Yes I do!
Let's be honest, Palpatine made a huge mistake sacrificing the elegant, methodical, calculating, Count Dooku for a teenager with mommy issues.
I always considered it a stalemate cause Dooku flee without killing any Jedi generals or high powered Jedi but I guess I was wrong a lot of Jedi did get slaughtered but I would assume the Jedi and Republic would have seized control of the droid factory, destroyed it or occupied the planet right?
Nope that not happen body
The movie didn't portray the gravity of the situation on screen well
fun fact Before the CG clone wars series existed Barris offee was a mature young woman jedi Knight in the movies and the animated clone wars series from 2004 even being at Palpatines office when padme talks to him about Assassination Attempts on her life but they made her into a teenager for some reason
212 went in & only 30 survived!
DAMN!!!
182 KIA Jedi
All thanks to "The Chosen One". Looking back, if the Jedi just let Anakin die here and now, the galaxy would have been spared so much heartache from a genocidal child murdering bastard.
@3:12 All I can do is wonder. What would a group of Mace Windu be called? A Waddle of Windu? A Murder of Mace?
“I’ve been expecting you.”
*I’ve been looking forward to this.*
A common place for the biggest defeats is from within…..a good lesson for anyone
Anakin says to Ashoka in TOTJ that droids are easy so she needs to be prepared for anything and we see her training with the 501st that she would later have evade.
What’s crazy is that Dooku still had respect for some of the Jedis there and the ones that had fallen
Honestly i need to rewatch the entire series one day.
Jesus Christ is lord.
Please read Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself to understand. It’s in the inner work Jesus Christ taught that reveal the Bible as truth. Start by forgiving your parents. It’s an important step in adulthood. They’re people too, they’ve loved you. Genuinely clean out that inner gunk there. Acts like this are how we show our faith. It isn’t belief alone, it’s actions based on belief. Genuinely taking Jesus Christ’s lessons to heart are the key. Please break down before him and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
He laid a perfect trap for the Jedi. It was a great hand of poker and he had all aces. None of the sith could have laid a better trap then he did. Bane got close with the though bomb, but this was perfection.
I was introduced to star wars with the 2000s clone wars cartoon
And the only time i saw jedis defeated was during general grievous's 1st appearence. Still he killed what? less than a dozen of them (on screen at least), so later watching the movies and witnessing this scene was... something
Imagine a group of superheroes like the avengers or justice league having a casualty rate that puts the battle of verdun in shame against an army of normies, no big bad guy, no complicated ambush, no superweapons of any kind, just a normal battle against a normal army... and they get destroyed like it's nothing
My reaction during that part was "oh here they are, they're already fighti... *looks at the already high number of dead jedis* OH MY GOOOD!!!"
Shouldn't have given up the high ground 🤷🏿♂️
Should've dropped Dooku- or at the least, bring Yo-Da-Man with you to the balcony, "just in case"
For some reason I just noticed a jedi using jar kai in the arena battle. never noticed till now
joclad danva, hes mentioned in one of the medstar books, a user of jar'kai, he didnt survive geonosis either
there is one other jar'kai user, sora bulq, he only uses one saber here, but he uses it through the clone wars when hes working for count dooku
Fitting that the day Jango “Jedi Killer” Fett dies, is when hundreds of Jedi perish as well.
What really established the tone of the Clone Wars was the aftermath of the Geonosis arena battle, when the clone troopers arrived to save the day. By that point, the Jedi lost their mystique and confidence as being able to solve any crisis, and they depended on the clones to survive. So even as they were given command roles on the spot, they were really just letting the clones take the lead, as they could do what the Jedi couldn't. This set the tone of the Jedi just going with the flow as the war continued, building their dependence on the clones until it was too late to reverse the course of their doom.
Palpatine was probably creaming in his office knowing so many Jedi were being killed
😂 Now can't get that image out of my head.
I like to think this is the conflict that led Anakin to teaching ashoka form 5
The whole situation works so well. It does perfectly reflect the arrogance and short-sighted nature of the Jedi. They really did think that showing up with a legitimately sizable number of themselves would be enough to settle things down. They didn't take stock of the information Obi-Wan passed to them, didn't wait for reinforcements from Yoda, and didn't seriously arm themselves. They just showed up in cloth which while looking cool...is not what you want for a serious battle. Even Mace didn't actually use his surprise appearance behind the enemy leaders to strike but more to threaten.
It just shows how badly the Jedi had mishandled the situation. They lost so many here and would lose so many more. They were always a step behind and never saw the bigger picture or threat. Well played by Dooku and Palpatine.
YOOOO that's song at the end was awesome
Also, i think stupendous wave and others will understand this, in a certain point of view.
But Geonosis for the Jedi, were their own Battle of Tukayyid in Battletech.
Tex from Black Pants Legion youtube channel covered this greatly, but here is a resume:
The Clans Like the Jedi came facing an enemy thinking hey would play by their rules.
But the Enemy the were facing, aka Space AT&T/ComStar 's head honcho knew war, and outnumbered them vastly, and played psyops to the point of humiliating them, and created a generational and even thought shift inside clan society.
Which is what happened to the Jedi, and what led them to what they became during the Clone Wars.
Jesus Christ is lord.
Please read Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself to understand. It’s in the inner work Jesus Christ taught that reveal the Bible as truth. Start by forgiving your parents. It’s an important step in adulthood. They’re people too, they’ve loved you. Genuinely clean out that inner gunk there. Acts like this are how we show our faith. It isn’t belief alone, it’s actions based on belief. Genuinely taking Jesus Christ’s lessons to heart are the key. Please break down before him and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
6:49 you assumed no force could challenge you
-malgus
This channel is so addictive - the video topics are so interesting! And they deeply increase my love and appreciation for Star Wars. At the same time, it makes me realize how underrated the prequel era is and how unfairly appreciated is. All the real meat of the lore and depth of Star Wars seems to come from the prequels - yet it's sad that George Lucas was made to feel like he wasn't wanted because of what he did with the prequels.
I would also say that the jedi were not prepared to work together as a group. Don't get me wrong jedi can work great together, but they each are used to to working as a group of two, or if the mission called for it a group of four to six. They don't work as a cohesive fighting force with a plan they split up and did their separate thing, thus causing them to be easily taken out.
The arena fight was indeed very stacked against Jedi:
- being fired from all sides , even above ,
- being fired upon by literally artillery sized guns,
- being fired upond from area effect weapons like geonosian sonic blasters (which cant be blocked by saber),
- overwhelming numbers,
- only melee weapons on side of jedi which meant they couldnt reach far to get droids that were further on,
So yes Dooku perfecty knew Jedi weak points and took advantage of them to make a perfect killing ground.
Enter Master Yoda. The admiral with the big picture and the cavalry. Foot soldiers always need someone in command, someone directing them to victory, a strategist, a general.
YOOOOOOO IS THAT A DUAL WIELDING JEDI KNIGHT?!?! 3:45 Literally watched AOTC like x1000 times and just realizing this, helps with the slow mo too. Then that makes him the first live action jedi who dual wields, freaking cool
They were being hit by too many angles.
I used to love your videos so much. I would add them to a playlist to listen to as I went to bed everyday. Since you added the loud and long outro, I can't watch anymore. 😵💫
I am always think is also most jedi use lighsaber style form 6 in this time
“Cheap and easy to produce”
Me: I seem to recall an episode of the clone wars where Dooku specifically tells General Grievous how expensive battle droids are to make 🤔
Thanks for the video!
It was not a defeat though, it was a pyrrhic victory. Sure, the Jedi strike team got nearly wiped out, but they still did what they came to do... the enemy retreated...
But what cost?
All to save teenage sandbag who no one liked anyway. If the Jedi had just ignored it and let Anakin die, the galaxy would be a much happier place later on, with way more living children.
@@dn22pkkdd476 they went there to save the Chosen One, a favored Jedi master, and an important and influential republic senator
@@dn22pkkdd476 Anakin was essential as the Chosen One since he was to destroy the Sith and bring balance, which he eventually does in ROTJ.
@@dn22pkkdd476 Palpatine would just find another Jedi to seduce to the Dark Side to continue with his agenda.
I'd try to jump somewhere out of range or sight of blaster fire, throw my lightsaber and use the force to make it cut through droids like a boomerang that doesn't come back to me but keeps swerving and cutting through droid after droid after droid. I think Mace would be powerful enough to have that concentration.
Also, it is not true Mace did not know there was a Droid army on Geonosis. Obi-Wan's message made it clear that deliveries were being made. Thinking that none would be operational is folly.
Grievous: Learns about the 182 dead Jedi on Genosis.
Grevious: It’s fine auditioning time!
Also, there is the thing that nobody seems to talk about even though Yoda specifically mentioned it. The Sith can place a cloud over the Force affecting everyone's ability to see the future and react accordingly. The true power of the Sith is not their Force Lightening or Telekinetic power. It is the ability to cause fear and dread and confusion. The Dark Side is oppressive. It hurts to be around. It causes lapses in judgement resulting in mistakes being made. It closes in upon you making you desperate.
These Jedi had no idea what they were feeling. They had NEVER been around a Dark Side wielder. As far as their perception went, most of these particular Jedi had probably never really left the Temple that much, and had always been surrounded by order and calm. Then Duku shows up and for the first time, they feel real fear. That has to throw off the reflexes.
How was Barriss Offee at this battle? In the Clone Wars TV show her master didn't want a padawan until she met and worked with Ahsoka against Ventress. Also Master Luminara introduced her to Anakin and Ahsoka in the second battle of Geonosis as her new padawan.
Dooku played the hand he was dealt by his master, Palpatine. Palpatine always had Anakin in his sights as his future apprentice and replacement for whoever he had at his side when that time came. It just happened to be Dooku who got betrayed first. You can see in the story that Palpatine tells Anakin of Darth Plagueis the wise that he had already learned not to let his own appreciate betray him but to always have another apprentice in mind and ready to go just in case. Palpatine took into account everything, all the way up until he himself became overconfident and never expected Anakin to break free of his own fear and turn on him and in doing so finally fulfilled the prophecy of bringing balance to the force. The final remaining Jedi when Anakin passed was Luke. Luke who had been touched and taught by both the light side (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and the dark side (Palpatine and Vader). Luke was able to merge the 2 sides into a cohesive teaching, instead of separating emotion and relationship from your life like the Jedi and also not following wholly in the Siith doctrine of total selfishness but keeping a healthy love of oneself and not focusing entirely on gaining power. Luke succeeded where both the Siith and Jedi had failed.
Watching this with the dramatic music highlighted how this could have been portrayed. They could have leaned into the travesty of the loss of life at the arena, but instead, in the film, it's glossed over except for Anakin's one statement "you're going to pay for all the Jedi you killed". It's part of what makes some of these films seem disconnected, in my opinion. It's like they're just showing a timeline of events, rather than capturing the emotions of the events.
CIS Commander: Jedi are coming
Droids: We are going to fight Jedi?
CIS Commander: Yes
Droids: Flamethrowers, slugs & Shotguns it is!
CIS Commander: Parry this yeh filthy space wizards!
Would have been an interesting fight to see how fast all Jedi would have perished!
And a lot of them had styles that didn't focus on blasters. Obi-wan ironically was one of the best prepared because of his style.
Would have been so awesome to see Jar Jar Binks outsmarting the Jedi here instead of Dooku.
If they just focused on force pushes, that would have made most of the droids easy to carve up while grounded, but they were facing blaster bolts from all sides and some of the droids had rapid fire going so, machine guns cutting down samurai basically
Amazing sw content as always 💯
Dooku: Execute Order 66.
Palpatine: Hey that's a neat idea.
For as many times as I watched AOTC, I never realized that Bariss was there. Kinds created an inconsistency in the 2003 Clone Wars when we see her and Luminar on Illum as Bariss completes her lightsaber and her training. (I know it's no longer canon, but still.)
There was no way the Jedi could have been prepared for what they were about to face. Dooku made it clear they fought as well as they could as he admitted before asking them to surrender.
Yeah the triumphant music and humor throughout this scene really does kinda obscure the fact that the Jedi lost so many of their most talented members, and had to be bailed out by Yoda and the clones a few minutes later.
Dooku knew how the Jedi would act so perfectly that he knew even if one got the jump on him they wouldn’t stab him in the back ; it’s not their way. Windu could’ve taken out a key player of the Clone Wars right there but instead chose to threaten & talk
Very good points!
Jesus Christ is lord.
Please read Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself to understand. It’s in the inner work Jesus Christ taught that reveal the Bible as truth. Start by forgiving your parents. It’s an important step in adulthood. They’re people too, they’ve loved you. Genuinely clean out that inner gunk there. Acts like this are how we show our faith. It isn’t belief alone, it’s actions based on belief. Genuinely taking Jesus Christ’s lessons to heart are the key. Please break down before him and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
Puts it in context in a smart way. 👍
Ah that explains why Ashoka done so well protecting her self from the clones, she was trained defending her self against clones instead of normals droids
Yeah the Jedi during this time have not ordered republic troops since the old republic days and we're out of there element here many lives were lost because of this.
Jesus Christ is lord.
Please read Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself to understand. It’s in the inner work Jesus Christ taught that reveal the Bible as truth. Start by forgiving your parents. It’s an important step in adulthood. They’re people too, they’ve loved you. Genuinely clean out that inner gunk there. Acts like this are how we show our faith. It isn’t belief alone, it’s actions based on belief. Genuinely taking Jesus Christ’s lessons to heart are the key. Please break down before him and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.