Also take into account that Jedi in the old republic were trained to fight in saber to saber combat. The Jedi of the newer republic basically picked whatever form worked best for them and eventually shifted toward styles that could be better against blasters. The Jedi thought that the Sith weren’t as prevalent and studied other things rather than the lightsaber combat. When they go up against villains who have been trained to kill Jedi, it makes sense that they lose
@@A_Black_Sheep9490 percent of every fight comes down to spirit, sith who follow thier passions WANT the win more. Serenity is well and good with the blanket of experience. Without it spirit drives the battle and decides it.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 that's because it's easier your not mastering your emotions your embracing them. Almost all creatures will find this easier to do than mastery over one self. Lucas describe the Dark side as a cancer it ends up eating you whole in the end the more you draw on it the more addictive it becomes. If you take a Jedi Master or Grandmaster and pair them up against a strong Sith Lord they will be equal if not stronger though. You could also say though that individually Sith are stronger as the Dark Side is concentrated in a few users, but the light side is more evenly distributed.
@Connor Dutton That's how he described the Sith in particular. You paid any Jedi vs any Sith and the Sith comes out on top 9/10 times and star wars history bears that out.
"Tragedy breeds war. War breeds strength. Strength breeds Victory. Victory breeds Peace. Peace breeds complacency. Victory has defeated you." I believe this quote prefectly represents the jedi, quote originated from Bleach TYBW
Kao Cen Darach is a very underrated Jedi. This guy took on two Sith Lords with a saberstaff and his own standard blade with incredible fluidity and grace. I personally believe Darach stands as a great example of a combat-oriented Form VI practitioner
Kao Cen Darach is one of the most powerful Jedi Battlemaster, he was so powerful against both Darth Malgus and his Master Lord Vindican in the Outpost of Korriban, he did beaten Lord Vindican, but he was ultimately killed by Malgus in their lightsaber duel.
@@wtfamiactuallyright1823 I don’t think so. If you look closely, Darach was clearly fatigued once he took down Vindican, suggesting the Zabrak was around middle age in the trailer. Plus he just took part in a fight with two Sith at the same time. Even for an experienced fighter, combating multiple opponents can be very taxing. Furthermore, when Malgus unleashed his dual-blade assault against Darach, he was drawing on his rage to enhance himself and eventually broke through Darach’s defenses
@@darylsdesigns6679 Correct me if I'm wrong but, both were planned offensives too. This gave Malgus and co a HUGE advantage yet, he still had his work cut out for him, turn the tables and I'm not so sure Malgus would fair so well. I'm not saying that Malgus wasn't incredible but, lack preparation can make even the best fighters crumble when they're up against someone who has prepared. It's why surprise attacks often win out.
There was even a knowledge loss in the time of Meetra Surik. When she lands on Korriban, Kreia tells her of the holocron that Tulak Hord had made regarding lightsaber combat, which had been looted either during Revan's time or the time of Exar. Kreia further stated that if the Jedi of Meetra's day (or Meetra herself) would face a Sith like Tulak, or one of the ancient masters, they would be like a child with a toy. I have to agree that the Jedi of the Clone Wars were ill-prepared to face the threat before them, which is why they were easily dispatched. The Jedi of the Old Republic would have easily defeated Dooku, Maul, or Sidius. The reformation following Ruusan was damaging to the order.
So if they were that weak then then assume modern day Jedi powers are like throwing a teeny pebble on to a ship hull that’s been reinforced 100 times with meteorite metal
Between the constant infighting and the Mandalorian neo crusaders they were probably the most battle hardened force wielders in galactic history. That's not even including the fighting with the Sith at the time. Hence such characters as Revan, Nomi Sunrider, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, etc.
@@austinkersey2445 depends on which version of Luke we're talking about. The expanded universe Grandmaster Luke is near force god levels, and Kyle Katarn is yet to be canonized. Disney Luke died of force projection.
@@90skidcultist He says on a Legends video. And, it is real. It just isn't viewed as legitimate by a corporation that cares little for the actual property itself. You can count the good things Disney and modern Lucasfilm have made with the Star Wars with the fingers on one or two hands. Which, considering how long they have had the license . . . is kinda sad.
One detail I noticed that most people ignore is how in the prequels it's specifically mentioned by Mace that the jedi are nowhere near as strong as they used to be. Stating their powers have diminished in the force which is why you don't see the vast level of powers they supposedly have. Heck, you could say the Phantom menace is the last time the jedi could ever use force speed before their powers diminished even further
The reason the prequels era jedi and sith were so weak was because George Lucas didn't have the technology to do them right also Dave filoni and Disney don't understand the force how it works, and how powerful it's, the 2003 clone wars series did the jedi justice
So...basically the lesson here is the same that one of my first martial arts instructors told us: Sparring is good, but there's no substitute for actual real-world fighting.
You forgot plo, i recon he was prepared for battle with sith. He beat ventress with a broken arm and maul considered him one of the greatest jedi warriors of the era being the only one to beat yoda in a sparring session.
Yo guyz still a general, manz was the only Jedi of his era to ever use force lightning into a way that not only kept him from goin mod to the dark side but to incapacitate enemies n not kizzy dem like dem fools dookie our hideous
@@cole1nonly294 I mean he's OK, but like he couldn't defeat someone like dooku so in my eyes he's just a above average jedi master, people make him overrated
Yoda seems to show acknowledgement of how weaker the Jedi had become before the start of the clone wars, I have to wonder how strong the Jedi were when he first joined the order, how strong the older members he knew were, or if he says that with conviction given records of old Jedi and a general idea given his long age.
Man...... I've been saying this for a while. I'm so glad you brought this up. I've always thought the Jedi of the Old Republic were much more powerful.
I think, with the downfall of the brotherhood of darkness, the Jedi became the unbalance of the force. Rule of two deceived the Jedi to becoming it's own enemy.
The ancient jedi were at war all the time and the ancient sith lords were growing extremely powerful quickly because they were most masters of sith magic archemy am they did many rituals that made the dark side of the force grow stronger and stronger, the ancient jedi needed to adapt grow stronger or perish, also the force was trying to balance it self, ancient jedi knew battle meditation force harmony force sever and force light.
I don't remember his name but in legends there's a jedi council member with battle meditation. Edit: *Oppo Rancisis*, Yarael Poof(according to wookeepedia)
@@sebastiangibson9671 I was simply telling him that there were Jedi members in the prequel era capable of using bm when he mentioned it in his comment.
The TRULY IRONIC fact is, despite the Jedi so focussing on "understanding" instead of combat, Darth Sidious defeated them by CLOUDING their understand and not through brute force as the previous Sith. Meaning, the Jedi failed double. The lost their old fighting skills, but failed to gain the understanding to see or prevent a Sith Lord who hated lightsabers and duelling. lol
Exile was the only one who managed to disconnect herself from the force without dying, thus turning herself into a wound in the force, and the reason she was the only one able to take down Nihilus
That quote is basically astrology tier in terms of actually telling us anything about the world Most people just say the "strong men" are the political factions they support the most and the "weak men" are the political factions they don't like. It's driven by bias not understanding of history.
And Unduli wasn't trying to kill Ventress, just catch her, while Ventress was going all out. But I still love Unduli's burn during that battle, it was brilliant. It does remind me of an old saying though. It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
Crazy how the top duelists of the Prequel Jedi Order are the only ones who could compete and survive in the Old Republic. Anakin, Windu, Yoda, and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka (Plo-Koon likely as well) could live on, but just about all the others would get folded embarrassingly
I also believe one of the other reason was that the jedi of the clone wars time went out of there way to take all people who has the force instead of back then being more selective back in the old republic time. They would look for those who had a good force connection rather then anyone with a weak one. So when the clone wars came to be they had more jedi knights who wouldn't even compair to the old republic jedi knights
You are both right and wrong at the same time. The prequel order did take everyone they could detect in, if they were infants or young children with few exeptions, so long as they could legally do so (some planets made it mandatory for children to be given away, some made it voluntary for the parents), however the amount of those children that were taken for knighthood was not 100%. Many of them were left at the initiate stage and then baisically thrown away to the agri corps or similar institutions to be "aides" for the true jedi order... without the chance to ever go up in the order hierarchy. Meanwhile depending on which era we are talking about, the older jedi order's all took any people that they could, including late bloomers, so long as the order had the ability to do so financially and thought that the initiates could make it as jedi. So on that front the whole number of available force user's for the older jedi order was larger, and had differing standards based on which academies the recruiters were from(because the jedi had many more temples in all previous eras). For example the jedi order as a whole during the last battle for Rusan were overall much weaker than prequel era jedi, even if the masters in the rusan era were far better than the prequels. We see this in the darth bane novels with people like Rain and Tomcat being thrown into the fight, and called jedi after mere months of training. Meanwhile in the old Republic era we had Master ven zallow tank being thrown through a concrete pillar several meters thick and continue fighting... meanwhile yoda gives up after a relatively small fall (for jedi masters who can fall from atmosphere if they try) or obi wan in episode 2 from literal minor burns from lightsaber touches on the shoulder and outer thigh.
That's a narrow minded point of view. Obi wan Kenobi had a very weak force connection, but he grew to become one of the most powerful, and skilled combatants in his era. Some will surprise you. Do you think any blade master that taught obi wan would ever think he'd be the greatest of all time
@@paytonwirtjes523 honestly i don't think so, the prequel era Jedi were kind of a joke in how restricted their knowledge was on force techniques and their member's relative prowess, so being called the greatest soresu master of all time was kind of unfair for the order as a whole. He was definitely the best his era, but he was an outlier. also I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that he had an above average connection for his time as a Padawan, I could be misremembering characters there though. That's lore wise at least, as for realistically ,its got a lot to do with movies showing things differently than the books and games due to special effects limitations so the scale of character feats are better in the books/games that came out. But we are speaking about the lore as it was seen/read/heard, so metaknowledge should not be taken into account and we should be considering only what is stated in the complete lore. which is basically that the old republic Jedi were technically the most powerful in terms of their combatants. ironically due to this same system it could be inferred that the Jedi exploration corps and agri corps were the strongest variation of their branches of the Jedi order that have existed, due to simple lack of information about the old republic Jedi order's equivalent branches.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 I meant to say greatest of his time. He was an unmatched defensive fighter. The greatest of all time was exar Kun without a shadow of a doubt
i'd just like to point out that obi one kenobi had the weakest force connection of any jedi and yet he managed to beat Darth Maul on multiple occasions, killed General Grieves who has taken out jedi far more powerfull than kenobi and as if that wasnt enough he beat darth vader on mustifar only to disapear for 9 or 10 years and then return on to completely destroy Darth Vader again and then dissapear again only to return with another skywalker, infaltrate the deathstar and then completely evaporate. what i am saying is yes power is great but, to quote luke skywalker it is nothing without training. (as a side note i would also like to add that kenobi had more expierianc eon the battle field than most other jedi)
Only through conflict one has a way to grow beyond his current abilities. These challenges and hardships and overcoming them make us stronger. Take away that conflict and they stagnate as everything remains for others as it is. (According to wise-nana Kreya)
I think the answer may have been following the historical example of the Knights Templar. They were really two orders in one, battle knights who were constantly in combat, and Brothers who wore the monk robe and pursed scholarly/lucrative endeavors. The Jedi should've had a combat path and a monk path. One code for pure warriors and another for consulars. The Jedi Armies never should've been disbanded.
In some media they do. Like in The Old Republic game, there is a Jedi Knigh and a Jedi Consular class. And I think some others mention as well that like basically any society, Jedi also specialize. Makes sense that not many would specialize in dueling if noone has crossed paths with any Sith, or other single combatant that could match a Jedi in a thousand years. So most become ambassadors, scholars and advisors instead.
I believe in Legends Canon, after the final "defeat" of the Sith, the Republic Senate requested the Jedi to disband their armies, and Jedi Armor because the Sith had been destroyed. Also there were some in the Senate who were wortied that the Jedi could become a threat to the Republic if they maintained their army. So to keep the peace, the Jedi agreed.
@@phildicks4721 While you are right, there was a certain aspect of backstabbing implied in the whole series of events throughout the original expanded universe lore. In that the Jedi Lords who were morally righteous people leading planets and sectors of the republic for generations threatened the corporate interests of the core worlds. so when the majority of these jedi lords chose to sacrifice themselves for the good of the galaxy, and later Lord Farfala (cant remember if that is how to spell the name) died against Darth Bane, the jedi Lords faction lost the vast majority of its leadership and political power, whereas the Coruscant temple's main faction basically managed to take over the whole jedi order and rewrite their principles and way of life to being isolated monks that don't do anything to rock the boats of politicians (this happens around the time yoda is born and presumably joins the order). Now this was only implied, and never stated in the lore, it could just be like the exar kun situation where the brotherhood of darkness forming out of jedi, caused the majority of jedi after the brotherhood's fall to change their ways of life, but in a galaxy like star wars i dont see morally righteous people like the jedi lords willingly leaving their homewards (midrim/outer rim), knowing that their leaving will let things like piracy, slavery and corruption flourish after spending centuries fighting for their homes just to go to hide in a far off temple(Coruscant). So when looking at this realistically, ignoring our own metaknowledge and only taking what we know of the lore into account, its far more likely that there was a largescale though unofficial political coup within the order and the senate supported the faction that benefited themselves the most (aka the Coruscant jedi that wanted to collapse the Jedi lords and all jedi to become loyal Guard dogs/monks for the republic) with the lore showing they sucseeded in this and made sure that their version of the jedi completely took over (except in corellia) and they rewrote the jedi code and practices by teaching all younglings their new ways and how much more right their new ways are. Meanwhile the jedi lords faction which was implied to be outer rim/mid rim focused, had lost most of its resources and members during the 2000 years of on/off war and as such couldn't realistically challenge the core worlds any more. Moreover its implied that by the end, the army of light was made up mostly of volunteers after the many battles of Rousan Drained/killed the manpower of all the Jedi Lords holdings and militaries, thus resulting in the whole collapse of the jedi lords faction. Ironically those things also implied that most stories in the mid and outer rim of jedi were of the jedi Lords during those 2000 years where they were very active in improving the lives of people throughout the galaxy, whilst the majority of Yoda's jedi were more focused on politics and police actions around the core and Inner rim where the politics happened. So yea you are right on everything that you said but its nice to take the above factors into consideration Mind you this is just my take on the situation based on what I know of the lore and how i would interpret it if i had no metaknowledge. if we take metaknowledge the army needed to disband and jedi give up armor so they looked similar to the jedi in the movies. mind you i like to take a rather pessimistic view because i like looking at extremely dark undertones that never get answered in my fandoms.
Not only that, because of the Rule of Two, Darth Bane remade the Sith from conquerors and warriors to architects and schemers in the shadows even though they mastered lightsaber combat as a necessity while the Jedi degraded themselves because they believed their old ancient enemies are now extinct. In short, the Sith have evolved while the Jedi fell into obscurity. 😏
Your analysis is pretty accurate. Short answer, Harmed. This change in outlook ultimately ended the Jedi Order as we knew it. I've always supported the Army of Light's approach with their Jedi-Lords.
If I were a Jedi in the clone wars, I would learn from Jedi of the Old Replubic. Master all lightsaber forms. Grow more powerful and knowledgeable in the force. Gain much experience in fighting powerful dark Jedi and powerful Sith lords. I absolutely love the Jedi Order, but complacency was their downfall. Gotta keep growing and elevating.
@@privateuser3726 The Jedi should have training simulations from the Old Republic era. If nothing else, spar each other, or use a combat droid. The Jedi Order have to be ready, trained, and equipped to fight the Sith. Fighting Huts just won't help a Jedi. The Clones are prepared to fight the separatist. The Sith are trained to fight Jedi. But the Jedi are not trained well enough to compete effectively against a Sith? Something's wrong with that picture.
Dude was in the middle of fighting a Sith Master yet still was comfortable enough to keep an eye on it's padawan's fight to make sure she wouldn't die, that's just true skill right there. There's a reason why he was the battlemaster.
I believe it both helped and harmed the Jedi it helped them persuade leaders away from conflicts but at the same time it left them bereft of the skills needed in combating acolytes of the darkest of human/alien nature. It also led them to the reformations that disallowed knights from studying and learning the truth of the dark side of the force leaving them to further their own weakness. They forgot to be the warrior in the garden and became the gardeners in a war
In the book apocalypse Luke Skywalker's Jedi were way more prepared for the Sith they took on hundreds of them and they were only a handful and took them on lot more easily
You do realize the sith were waeker than their ancient masters because they had lost most of Thier power and artifacts Luke only won because the sith were waeker than the old masters Darth Traya also stated they were nothing next to the likes of the Old masters
@@kathyfriedhoff9152 well it was implied that some among the highest level of those sith were capable of standing in the ring as Grandmaster Luke and his order's masters, sure the majority were not, but thats not saying much considering it was Grand master Luke skywalker we are talking about here. also of course the sith of the lost tribe were weaker in the apocalypse book, by that point, Abeloth killed the majority of the stronger sith and only left those that submited to her allure and her coup of the navy alive. Im not saying Luke's order wasn't prepared, but most of the jedi fighting in the fate of the jedi apocalipse book were the war veterans (who fought palpatine's empire, the many sucsessor states/palpative sith cults and the vong war) whilst the less experienced members of lukes jedi order aren't really mentioned. so comparing their skills the survivors of the lost tribe sith would never have been fair.
Speaking as a Guardian I would argue 3 points against the clone war era jedi. 1. After the final Battle of Ruusan the order ran out of saber wielding opponents. This means that any dark jedi to rise up during that time had similar weakness to there Jedi brethren. This state exsisted for 1000 years 2. This meant that the Jedi of that time would set aside the heavy anti-lightsaber forms and focus soly on blast deflection. More over there were no blaster opponets to match them unless in sheer numbers. 3. Thus when a Master like Dooku (who i point out had studied and prefected a dualing form of combat) betrayed the order, this was a major problem. I hope you see my points and i pray the order will remember these lesson for a future time. We are protecters yet how can we protect if we loose the skill of the blade.
Ask most fans Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. the Skywalkers are the most powerful in the force ever. Yoda Mace Windu Count Dooku are the most skilled duelists ever. I don't buy it.
@@BLAZEU. I never understood why the “most powerful Sith Lord ever” lost to a bunch of ragtag rebels multiple times. Why he so easily got yeeted down a shaft. And why a young girl with barely any training reflected his own power back at him to kill him for good. If he was the most powerful he must also have been the laziest and dumbest.
@@wildcaveman5310 well, it’s actually somewhat easy to understand. Palpatine was never defeated by the rebels at all, they may have defeated armies underneath his name or his empire. However, he was never defeated at all until he met Luke Skywalker, and that makes sense because Luke Skywalker is a deus ex machina however, I do agree that Rey Skywalker/Palpatine whatever she wants to call her trash self it’s a modern bullshit that they used as plot convenience as a contrived method to kill Palppy Are, however, the Sith LordS of the past were really really strong, however once you get to the upper echelon for the top of the pendulum, you realize that the modern error ones are just a step above So basically, the meteors in the high tears of the ancient generation we’re stronger than the meteors in the high tears of the modern generation however, the top tears of the ancient generation were step below, the top tears of the modern generation. That’s the easiest way to see it.
@@drew8324 did Palpatine go head to head vs the armies of the rebels? Unfortunately no and that would have been a display of real power. Imagine if he faced off against thousands of them. Or better yet if those thousands had been Jedi. Wait that kind of sounds like what Tulak Horde did. You can really say Sidious lost a fight to Luke since they didn’t really fight. Although that would have been even more embarrassing for him to straight up loose to a fresh Jedi with barely any training… wait that’s what happened with Rey. Sure we see Sidious mop the floor with Maul and Savage and clean up 3 council members in 2 seconds but then he looses to Windu and then at best stalemates Yoda (which is a win in the big picture) but the “most powerful Sith Lord of all time” is only in power by not his own skill but luck (or the force which however you want to look at it). No disrespect meant to Windu and Yoda but the old Sith and Jedi were locked in near combat for centuries where only the strongest survived. During Bane’s rule of 2 era the Sith and Jedi had grown soft compared to what they once were. Bane recognized the ancient Sith were in another league. Why did Sidious get out of his chair and go down and personally smoke the rebels? That’s how the sith of old did things. Because they could. My bottom line is this: if Sidious was the most powerful of all time he must have also been the laziest and the most incompetent. And I can’t bring myself to say the man who orchestrated the final steps of the grand plan was incompetent. Did victory defeat him and make him lazy? Maybe. Not sure what other excuse he could have for loosing 3 death stars and 2 empires with massive armies and yet he rarely does anything himself.
The Jedi of the clone wars fought in a war for three years. The Jedi of the old republic fought the great galactic war for 30. The Jedi of the clone wars fought battle droids. The Jedi of the great galactic war fight battle droids, well trained and disciplined soldiers, and some of the most terrifying Sith the galaxy has ever seen. There really isn’t a comparison here. It’s like you said. Experience outranks everything. There’s also the fact that in the expanded lore Palpatine went through that experiment to strengthen the Darkside. And I think that’s kind of the point that George Lucas tried to make with the prequels. The Jedi are nowhere near their height. These truly are the waning days of not only the Republic but the order.
Ya i see so many people go on about how strong the clone wars jedi when only like a few dozen really contributed to the war the rest ether got in the way orjust didn't really do anything cause they knew they couldn't help much and were more a liability on the battlefield The old Republic jedi had near constant conflict which made even the more peace focused among them skilled warriors nor were they so regid and narroe minded usually which was s big issue of the clone war jedi snd one reason they got destroyed
throughout human history, any time a scholar or politician weakened military might it has almost always ended badly for the faction that's being weakened. your enemies will never care for your fancy words, nearly that you're dead or dying as they storm past.
I agree that Master Coven's policies have destroyed the Jedi. War is a struggle, struggle breeds greatness and strength. Peace only breeds complacency and dulls ones blade, the rest is self explanatory.
Before watching the video i can answer that. They were in war for decades at a time. So they were more military minded and warrior like. Less rules and dogma than clone war jedi. Plus the old Jedi still trained to fight sith. Cw jedi thought they was gone forever. And the cw jedi trained to keep peace instead of fighting for peace like or Jedi.
Wasn't it fairly recently that the Mandalorian War had been finished for 50 years to 200 years, just before the Old Republic? If it's that close then it's another explanation why the Jedi in the Old Republic were so much stronger but of course I could be wrong about this too.
And these Jedi were taken down by battle driods and clones. That would never have happened to the battle hardened Knights of the Old Republic who would have cut them down like grass.
i think the only modern jedi that could stand a chance against the old republic jedi are yoda, plo koon, and MAYBE anakin skywalker if he was calm, and trained a bit more
Zallow is my favorite Jedi. I only wish that he could integrate more force based attacks into his sequences. Imagine if he could force push like Satele shan, he would have been a real Challenge for Malgus. (Disney should have invested into the Old Republic instead of the acoshyte)
i wish anakin skywalker was born during that era, the amount of ligthsaber battles that he would have had would be incredible, and he would have developed as a fighter so much more he was a battle junkie he would fit in that era
I have A question for anyone; what do you think about this as A potential character: There was A Sith Lord by the name of Darth Vanity; she was A Sith obsessed with her beauty and power-She lived during the old republic era but when she died she managed to Transcendence and become A Force Ghost. In the present time, she managed to recruit my creative character: her goal is to be resurrected and rule the galaxy with my character but he ultimately betrayed her.
You forget the force. It's like it chooses sides, as plaguies says, when he violates the force by creating a force being (Anakin). His studies into bringing people back from life and death were a big deal. And Plaguies seeing that Anakin was the chosen one says "Have you undone us? talking to the force" Banes sith got stronger with each generation. Jedi stagnation. Banes sith pushed the force towards the darkside and having normal planets embrace darkside like behaviour.
Having so many authors across so many different mediums drawing from different sources and ideologies make it hard to compare the same Jedi through different story's let alone all the Jedi from all the era's, it's fun to debate and talk about but there's always going to be a difference of opinion.
Loved the video just personal taste really but I think you could have made the video even longer if you used Satille instead of her master just how she fight malgus alone is enough to prove they where another level
So the Jedi of the Clone Wars damn near abandon the old ways to where only a select few Jedi masters can beat a Sith Lord, that right there is why they didn't survive Order 66, had the old ways still been around during the time of the Clone Wars, I believe they survive the Jedi Purge and they would've still been keeping the peace by keeping the citizens of the Galactic Republic safe from the Imperial Empire
I think the new policy screwed them over. I mean during the great hyperspace war the Sith had appeared out of nowhere after 300 years. Who says they can’t come back after 1000? They’ve taken a long hiatus befpre. True you shouldn’t be overly cautious but you should still be prepared. That policy is the reason many Jedi were killed by dooku, ventress, grievous, and vader.
..and being that fuckin' stupendously ridiculously POWERFUL, than the plot decided that they need to die like schmucks, pew-pewed by other schmucks that can't hit a barn door from inside ( yes, yes I know, it's just a rumor...right ?! ) I find hilarious the fact that someone can devote so much time and energy to a story, ya know ?!
As much as I admire the Jedi I think for as "surprised" as they've been every time the sith have emerged again I can't help but feel and think the Jedi are a little too naive too think that the sith have been completely defeated and more than once at that.After all,there are always Jedi even if it's one or two who are all that is left.....therefore they should always without a doubt realize there will always be sith.Or.....there is no good without evil.....the force is about everything(a.k.a. good and evil) maintaining a balance in the story arc therefore it should be obvious too both sides that the other will exist in some form always and occasionally evil will attempt too rise which will cause fate too enroll the counter rise of all Jedi.
It kinda stands to reason that the Jedi of old would be better prepared as they were on the war path pretty much all the time. Even Anakin got to be a bad ass thanks to the war. In a nut shell - practice makes perfect :D
The thing is Balance: The greater you have the Jedi combat training, the counter for power has also have to be equally great, thus creating a violent Galactic Society, so the more peaceful the Jedi, so should the Sith, but the Sith took this as a weakness, as it was, and ambushed the entire Jedi Order; so, having a great power, the responsibility is to be virtuous about it, not being violent/abusive but of kindness and help, yet acknowledge it and be trained in it; so you don't get overconfident to be deceived, but neither underskilled to be blindsided and defeated
I'd say he missed a few jedi who were prepared to fight sith. Shaak Ti for one was known as an absolute master of her form and a powerful force user, Plo Koon as well
Not really. They were powerful for their time. Important word being ‘time’. It's like comparing Sulliman The Great’s army when he took Constantinople to a first-world nation’s military and concluding Sulliman’s army is more powerful because a book at the time says it is.
I do agree with the theory of the decline of the Jedi order but wasn't another part due to the fact that the jedi order was sitting above a secret sith temple that slowly erroded away at their connection to the light side of the force as well?
Yes, that assisted Sideous in his efforts. But the greatest loss was due to the Jedi refusing to listen to the will of the force as well as letting their fear cloud their judgement.
To be fair Ventress was trained by one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time, snd she used the same form specialized in lightsaber lightsaber combat. So I'm not surprised that she did well against Luminara
Still absurd when an understudy beat a council member. Thats like a girl who picked up a lightsaber 30 minutes ago beating a seasoned and well trained warrior from a prestigious force user bloodline. Oh wait
I know George Lucas once said that Jedi were like Marshalls of the Old West, but what were his own thoughts on the Jedi/Sith wars which no doubt happened way back when?
Old Republic era is the best in SW. and I honestly don’t want Disney to lay a finger on it but sadly I believe they will and ruin such a legendary era or SW.
What happened was that licas did not write the novels, the people who wrote them did not write them in the same head space. So they overpowered them, obviously. Like when fans write their own stories for their favourite universe, they overpower their characters.
you are right , but that's using metaknowlage to explain a situation in a fandom. what most fans try do here is interpret it through a purely lore perspective.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 which in my opinion is silly. It's shitty writing to go off kilter and take the story off the cannon power level. I say clone wars feloni style and samurai jack style and prequels is the limit of power levels and tiering and hierarchy for me.
@@You-to-be ok, that is fine, honestly the way I see it ,the power levels changing is just normal for a universe that's been developing for over 40 years. With Lucas's original vision really not mattering as much after the stories began being expanded upon and changing with the fandom, especially after 200 books of development and changes. The way we interpret the changes is either taking them at face value and getting annoyed at the inconsistencies or interpreting them purely lorewise in a way that let's us enjoy the fandom by arguing about which iteration of the Jedi order was the best. Also for clarification the samurai Jack style animated series actually shows feats that are several orders of magnitude more than the faloni TV show... like the jedi telekinesis and physical enhancements are in line with the original expanded universe lore... like anikin dragging a 250m long ship hundreds of meters fast enough to intercept guided munitions within a second and windu blowing away small armies by himself, punching through half a dozen armored superbattledroids in a second. Whilst the feloni show is more in line with the new cannon, Anakin struggles with an granade explosion and windu needs 2 seconds to break a plane of armored glass.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 i only use the samurai jack style for tiering, thinking about it the samurai jack version Anakin actually showed Anakin as a powerful dangerous immature jedi. Best Anakin depiction for me. But yeah samurai jack version power level made the separatists scary. Ideal power level would be between CWs feloni and jack version. Leaning more towards jack version
@@You-to-beto be fair, in most of the original EU books luke is kinda in a middle ground between the two shows in his powerlevel, when he has time to concentrate he could mindtrick a whole warship from his fighter several kilometers away, whilst in the same book trilogy he has problems keeping up a physical enhancement. That's really the problem with the whole concentration based magic systems and how to scale them ... Also, after our conversations reminded me of it... I really wish they continued producing a samurai jack style star wars TV show... it would be amazing if they continued it like they did the actual samurai jack story.
Honestly, I don't think there's a single jedi in the Clone Wars Era that could battle the Old Republic Sith. Even the Jedi Council in the Clone Wars would be defeated by a single Sith Lord from the Old Republic. I also believe the Ruusan Reformation directly led to the decline of the jedi. The Grandmaster's choice to redirect the teachings and neglect lightsaber training the way it had been done during the previous wars also led to the weakening of the Jedi's overall power in the Force. It didn't help that they also started suppressing most of their emotions, believing that positive emotion and even righteous anger could corrupt the jedi and lead to the dark side. I believe that had the jedi continued to train as they had been prior to the Reformation, then the Clone Wars would never have happened the way they did. The Clone War would've still happened, but it would've been very different with Jedi that were trained to handle such situations. The Grand Master at the time of the Ruusan Reformations truly handicapped the Jedi Order with the changes she made.
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Also take into account that Jedi in the old republic were trained to fight in saber to saber combat. The Jedi of the newer republic basically picked whatever form worked best for them and eventually shifted toward styles that could be better against blasters. The Jedi thought that the Sith weren’t as prevalent and studied other things rather than the lightsaber combat. When they go up against villains who have been trained to kill Jedi, it makes sense that they lose
Even 500, 1,000, 10,000 years ago if you put the average Jedi against the average Sith of their time period the Sith comes out on top 9/10.
I can't help but wonder how Jedi would defend themselves against sith magic or the illusions Darh Zannah could do
@@A_Black_Sheep9490 percent of every fight comes down to spirit, sith who follow thier passions WANT the win more. Serenity is well and good with the blanket of experience. Without it spirit drives the battle and decides it.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 that's because it's easier your not mastering your emotions your embracing them. Almost all creatures will find this easier to do than mastery over one self. Lucas describe the Dark side as a cancer it ends up eating you whole in the end the more you draw on it the more addictive it becomes. If you take a Jedi Master or Grandmaster and pair them up against a strong Sith Lord they will be equal if not stronger though. You could also say though that individually Sith are stronger as the Dark Side is concentrated in a few users, but the light side is more evenly distributed.
@Connor Dutton That's how he described the Sith in particular. You paid any Jedi vs any Sith and the Sith comes out on top 9/10 times and star wars history bears that out.
"Tragedy breeds war. War breeds strength. Strength breeds Victory. Victory breeds Peace. Peace breeds complacency. Victory has defeated you." I believe this quote prefectly represents the jedi, quote originated from Bleach TYBW
speaking of which when does the bleach tybw anime continue?
@James Cook 2nd cour is in july, 3rd cour winter 2023 and 4th cour in 2024
@@EWarr-ko3nf huh?
Nice to read a Bleach reference in the Star Wars universe 🙂
Might apply to post
Cold War America!
My America!
Kao Cen Darach is a very underrated Jedi. This guy took on two Sith Lords with a saberstaff and his own standard blade with incredible fluidity and grace. I personally believe Darach stands as a great example of a combat-oriented Form VI practitioner
Kao Cen Darach is one of the most powerful Jedi Battlemaster, he was so powerful against both Darth Malgus and his Master Lord Vindican in the Outpost of Korriban, he did beaten Lord Vindican, but he was ultimately killed by Malgus in their lightsaber duel.
Malgus got lucky.
@@wtfamiactuallyright1823 I don’t think so. If you look closely, Darach was clearly fatigued once he took down Vindican, suggesting the Zabrak was around middle age in the trailer. Plus he just took part in a fight with two Sith at the same time. Even for an experienced fighter, combating multiple opponents can be very taxing. Furthermore, when Malgus unleashed his dual-blade assault against Darach, he was drawing on his rage to enhance himself and eventually broke through Darach’s defenses
@@darylsdesigns6679 Correct me if I'm wrong but, both were planned offensives too. This gave Malgus and co a HUGE advantage yet, he still had his work cut out for him, turn the tables and I'm not so sure Malgus would fair so well.
I'm not saying that Malgus wasn't incredible but, lack preparation can make even the best fighters crumble when they're up against someone who has prepared. It's why surprise attacks often win out.
That fight was amazing to watch though, I wish he survived because if he did he would've of been a high threat to the sith empire
"The Sacking of Coruscant", one of the best trailers swtor ever produced...
There was even a knowledge loss in the time of Meetra Surik. When she lands on Korriban, Kreia tells her of the holocron that Tulak Hord had made regarding lightsaber combat, which had been looted either during Revan's time or the time of Exar. Kreia further stated that if the Jedi of Meetra's day (or Meetra herself) would face a Sith like Tulak, or one of the ancient masters, they would be like a child with a toy.
I have to agree that the Jedi of the Clone Wars were ill-prepared to face the threat before them, which is why they were easily dispatched. The Jedi of the Old Republic would have easily defeated Dooku, Maul, or Sidius. The reformation following Ruusan was damaging to the order.
So if they were that weak then then assume modern day Jedi powers are like throwing a teeny pebble on to a ship hull that’s been reinforced 100 times with meteorite metal
@@sebastiangibson9671 More like throwing a grain of sand at a planet.
I don't take anything Kreia says about ancient Jedi or Sith at face value. Lmao she's talking like she saw the guy fight. It's just hype
@@game_boyd1644Then we can take what was said in the novels about the prequels as hype.
They could have defeated dooku, maul and vader but they dont stand a chance against sidious.
Between the constant infighting and the Mandalorian neo crusaders they were probably the most battle hardened force wielders in galactic history. That's not even including the fighting with the Sith at the time. Hence such characters as Revan, Nomi Sunrider, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, etc.
The Clone Wars Jedi (at least the masters) were better. As for the most battle-hardened, that goes to Luke's New Jedi Order.
@@austinkersey2445 depends on which version of Luke we're talking about. The expanded universe Grandmaster Luke is near force god levels, and Kyle Katarn is yet to be canonized. Disney Luke died of force projection.
@@b.msabol8551 This is Legends content, so I think we can kick Disney Canon to the curb on this one.
Legends ain’t real anymore, get over it.
@@90skidcultist He says on a Legends video. And, it is real. It just isn't viewed as legitimate by a corporation that cares little for the actual property itself. You can count the good things Disney and modern Lucasfilm have made with the Star Wars with the fingers on one or two hands. Which, considering how long they have had the license . . . is kinda sad.
One detail I noticed that most people ignore is how in the prequels it's specifically mentioned by Mace that the jedi are nowhere near as strong as they used to be. Stating their powers have diminished in the force which is why you don't see the vast level of powers they supposedly have.
Heck, you could say the Phantom menace is the last time the jedi could ever use force speed before their powers diminished even further
The reason the prequels era jedi and sith were so weak was because George Lucas didn't have the technology to do them right also Dave filoni and Disney don't understand the force how it works, and how powerful it's, the 2003 clone wars series did the jedi justice
Mace was referring to their ability to tell the future and other abilities of the sort, not combat wise.
@@podrickfookinpayne2329 combat wise they lost many abilities
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Such as? And in terms of 'strength' there's no reason to assume they lost any.
The phrase “peace breeds stagnation” comes to mind
So...basically the lesson here is the same that one of my first martial arts instructors told us: Sparring is good, but there's no substitute for actual real-world fighting.
Mike Tyson has said “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
No. Experience isn't nearly as important as training. It's just one lesson among many that helps tie everything together.
I will love so much to see these Jedi they are the true Jedi knights of the force
You forgot plo, i recon he was prepared for battle with sith. He beat ventress with a broken arm and maul considered him one of the greatest jedi warriors of the era being the only one to beat yoda in a sparring session.
No the yoda sparring is a rumor from a wii game so until there is evidence to say otherwise plo in canon was just a slightly above average jedi master
Yo guyz still a general, manz was the only Jedi of his era to ever use force lightning into a way that not only kept him from goin mod to the dark side but to incapacitate enemies n not kizzy dem like dem fools dookie our hideous
@@cole1nonly294 what the hell are you trying to say, I can't understand a word of what you just said
@@Blazeyblazeyblaze cool it, I’m sayin plo koons a guy out here💯
@@cole1nonly294 I mean he's OK, but like he couldn't defeat someone like dooku so in my eyes he's just a above average jedi master, people make him overrated
Yoda seems to show acknowledgement of how weaker the Jedi had become before the start of the clone wars, I have to wonder how strong the Jedi were when he first joined the order, how strong the older members he knew were, or if he says that with conviction given records of old Jedi and a general idea given his long age.
What if in compare to ancient Jedi Yoda in his prime was a medicore one?
Ven Zallow is one of my absolute favorite Jedi
Man......
I've been saying this for a while. I'm so glad you brought this up. I've always thought the Jedi of the Old Republic were much more powerful.
Victory tests a combatant more than defeat. And this video pointed that out quite nicely.
I think, with the downfall of the brotherhood of darkness, the Jedi became the unbalance of the force. Rule of two deceived the Jedi to becoming it's own enemy.
It makes quite a bit of sense, and it's a lesson we've seen in history and sci-fi stories before: war is a skill that atrophies without use.
The ancient jedi were at war all the time and the ancient sith lords were growing extremely powerful quickly because they were most masters of sith magic archemy am they did many rituals that made the dark side of the force grow stronger and stronger, the ancient jedi needed to adapt grow stronger or perish, also the force was trying to balance it self, ancient jedi knew battle meditation force harmony force sever and force light.
I don't remember his name but in legends there's a jedi council member with battle meditation. Edit: *Oppo Rancisis*, Yarael Poof(according to wookeepedia)
Also force heal is a force power even before the sequels
@@Epsolon885 I thought you meant bastilla lol
@@sebastiangibson9671 I was simply telling him that there were Jedi members in the prequel era capable of using bm when he mentioned it in his comment.
@@Epsolon885 oh I didn’t know thanks actually (this ain’t sarcasm btw)
The TRULY IRONIC fact is, despite the Jedi so focussing on "understanding" instead of combat, Darth Sidious defeated them by CLOUDING their understand and not through brute force as the previous Sith. Meaning, the Jedi failed double. The lost their old fighting skills, but failed to gain the understanding to see or prevent a Sith Lord who hated lightsabers and duelling. lol
Exile was the only one who managed to disconnect herself from the force without dying, thus turning herself into a wound in the force, and the reason she was the only one able to take down Nihilus
"Murder and Mayhem awaits" - Sith Inquisitor. Thank you for covering SWTOR lore. I love playing SWTOR.
SWTOR the true lore that Disney refuses to recognize as Star Wars canon
@@demonzone2571 yep, typical Disney 🙄
The quote “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times” comes to mind.
It's a bullshit warmongering phrase
Like Donald Trump creating good times between 2017 and 2021
I think of this quote a lot with the world the way it is today.
@@NorthernNomad93 that just means you're a tactless boomer
That quote is basically astrology tier in terms of actually telling us anything about the world
Most people just say the "strong men" are the political factions they support the most and the "weak men" are the political factions they don't like. It's driven by bias not understanding of history.
And Unduli wasn't trying to kill Ventress, just catch her, while Ventress was going all out. But I still love Unduli's burn during that battle, it was brilliant. It does remind me of an old saying though. It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
Crazy how the top duelists of the Prequel Jedi Order are the only ones who could compete and survive in the Old Republic. Anakin, Windu, Yoda, and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka (Plo-Koon likely as well) could live on, but just about all the others would get folded embarrassingly
I also believe one of the other reason was that the jedi of the clone wars time went out of there way to take all people who has the force instead of back then being more selective back in the old republic time. They would look for those who had a good force connection rather then anyone with a weak one. So when the clone wars came to be they had more jedi knights who wouldn't even compair to the old republic jedi knights
You are both right and wrong at the same time. The prequel order did take everyone they could detect in, if they were infants or young children with few exeptions, so long as they could legally do so (some planets made it mandatory for children to be given away, some made it voluntary for the parents), however the amount of those children that were taken for knighthood was not 100%. Many of them were left at the initiate stage and then baisically thrown away to the agri corps or similar institutions to be "aides" for the true jedi order... without the chance to ever go up in the order hierarchy.
Meanwhile depending on which era we are talking about, the older jedi order's all took any people that they could, including late bloomers, so long as the order had the ability to do so financially and thought that the initiates could make it as jedi. So on that front the whole number of available force user's for the older jedi order was larger, and had differing standards based on which academies the recruiters were from(because the jedi had many more temples in all previous eras). For example the jedi order as a whole during the last battle for Rusan were overall much weaker than prequel era jedi, even if the masters in the rusan era were far better than the prequels. We see this in the darth bane novels with people like Rain and Tomcat being thrown into the fight, and called jedi after mere months of training.
Meanwhile in the old Republic era we had Master ven zallow tank being thrown through a concrete pillar several meters thick and continue fighting... meanwhile yoda gives up after a relatively small fall (for jedi masters who can fall from atmosphere if they try) or obi wan in episode 2 from literal minor burns from lightsaber touches on the shoulder and outer thigh.
That's a narrow minded point of view. Obi wan Kenobi had a very weak force connection, but he grew to become one of the most powerful, and skilled combatants in his era.
Some will surprise you.
Do you think any blade master that taught obi wan would ever think he'd be the greatest of all time
@@paytonwirtjes523 honestly i don't think so, the prequel era Jedi were kind of a joke in how restricted their knowledge was on force techniques and their member's relative prowess, so being called the greatest soresu master of all time was kind of unfair for the order as a whole. He was definitely the best his era, but he was an outlier. also I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that he had an above average connection for his time as a Padawan, I could be misremembering characters there though.
That's lore wise at least, as for realistically ,its got a lot to do with movies showing things differently than the books and games due to special effects limitations so the scale of character feats are better in the books/games that came out.
But we are speaking about the lore as it was seen/read/heard, so metaknowledge should not be taken into account and we should be considering only what is stated in the complete lore. which is basically that the old republic Jedi were technically the most powerful in terms of their combatants. ironically due to this same system it could be inferred that the Jedi exploration corps and agri corps were the strongest variation of their branches of the Jedi order that have existed, due to simple lack of information about the old republic Jedi order's equivalent branches.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 I meant to say greatest of his time. He was an unmatched defensive fighter.
The greatest of all time was exar Kun without a shadow of a doubt
i'd just like to point out that obi one kenobi had the weakest force connection of any jedi and yet he managed to beat Darth Maul on multiple occasions, killed General Grieves who has taken out jedi far more powerfull than kenobi and as if that wasnt enough he beat darth vader on mustifar only to disapear for 9 or 10 years and then return on to completely destroy Darth Vader again and then dissapear again only to return with another skywalker, infaltrate the deathstar and then completely evaporate.
what i am saying is yes power is great but, to quote luke skywalker it is nothing without training. (as a side note i would also like to add that kenobi had more expierianc eon the battle field than most other jedi)
Only through conflict one has a way to grow beyond his current abilities. These challenges and hardships and overcoming them make us stronger.
Take away that conflict and they stagnate as everything remains for others as it is.
(According to wise-nana Kreya)
I think the answer may have been following the historical example of the Knights Templar. They were really two orders in one, battle knights who were constantly in combat, and Brothers who wore the monk robe and pursed scholarly/lucrative endeavors.
The Jedi should've had a combat path and a monk path. One code for pure warriors and another for consulars. The Jedi Armies never should've been disbanded.
In some media they do. Like in The Old Republic game, there is a Jedi Knigh and a Jedi Consular class. And I think some others mention as well that like basically any society, Jedi also specialize. Makes sense that not many would specialize in dueling if noone has crossed paths with any Sith, or other single combatant that could match a Jedi in a thousand years. So most become ambassadors, scholars and advisors instead.
I believe in Legends Canon, after the final "defeat" of the Sith, the Republic Senate requested the Jedi to disband their armies, and Jedi Armor because the Sith had been destroyed. Also there were some in the Senate who were wortied that the Jedi could become a threat to the Republic if they maintained their army. So to keep the peace, the Jedi agreed.
@@phildicks4721 While you are right, there was a certain aspect of backstabbing implied in the whole series of events throughout the original expanded universe lore. In that the Jedi Lords who were morally righteous people leading planets and sectors of the republic for generations threatened the corporate interests of the core worlds. so when the majority of these jedi lords chose to sacrifice themselves for the good of the galaxy, and later Lord Farfala (cant remember if that is how to spell the name) died against Darth Bane, the jedi Lords faction lost the vast majority of its leadership and political power, whereas the Coruscant temple's main faction basically managed to take over the whole jedi order and rewrite their principles and way of life to being isolated monks that don't do anything to rock the boats of politicians (this happens around the time yoda is born and presumably joins the order).
Now this was only implied, and never stated in the lore, it could just be like the exar kun situation where the brotherhood of darkness forming out of jedi, caused the majority of jedi after the brotherhood's fall to change their ways of life, but in a galaxy like star wars i dont see morally righteous people like the jedi lords willingly leaving their homewards (midrim/outer rim), knowing that their leaving will let things like piracy, slavery and corruption flourish after spending centuries fighting for their homes just to go to hide in a far off temple(Coruscant).
So when looking at this realistically, ignoring our own metaknowledge and only taking what we know of the lore into account, its far more likely that there was a largescale though unofficial political coup within the order and the senate supported the faction that benefited themselves the most (aka the Coruscant jedi that wanted to collapse the Jedi lords and all jedi to become loyal Guard dogs/monks for the republic) with the lore showing they sucseeded in this and made sure that their version of the jedi completely took over (except in corellia) and they rewrote the jedi code and practices by teaching all younglings their new ways and how much more right their new ways are. Meanwhile the jedi lords faction which was implied to be outer rim/mid rim focused, had lost most of its resources and members during the 2000 years of on/off war and as such couldn't realistically challenge the core worlds any more. Moreover its implied that by the end, the army of light was made up mostly of volunteers after the many battles of Rousan Drained/killed the manpower of all the Jedi Lords holdings and militaries, thus resulting in the whole collapse of the jedi lords faction. Ironically those things also implied that most stories in the mid and outer rim of jedi were of the jedi Lords during those 2000 years where they were very active in improving the lives of people throughout the galaxy, whilst the majority of Yoda's jedi were more focused on politics and police actions around the core and Inner rim where the politics happened.
So yea you are right on everything that you said but its nice to take the above factors into consideration
Mind you this is just my take on the situation based on what I know of the lore and how i would interpret it if i had no metaknowledge. if we take metaknowledge the army needed to disband and jedi give up armor so they looked similar to the jedi in the movies. mind you i like to take a rather pessimistic view because i like looking at extremely dark undertones that never get answered in my fandoms.
Very good.
Also there wasn't the relentless red tape and bureaucracy in the old Jedi order.
Not only that, because of the Rule of Two, Darth Bane remade the Sith from conquerors and warriors to architects and schemers in the shadows even though they mastered lightsaber combat as a necessity while the Jedi degraded themselves because they believed their old ancient enemies are now extinct. In short, the Sith have evolved while the Jedi fell into obscurity. 😏
Your analysis is pretty accurate. Short answer, Harmed. This change in outlook ultimately ended the Jedi Order as we knew it. I've always supported the Army of Light's approach with their Jedi-Lords.
6:48 Jedi master Adi Galia was given fatal head by Savage oppress and showed a spectacular "O" face
Lol
“Peace has cost you your strength victory has defeated you” bane and it’s completely true
Man this era needs a show like the Clone Wars
If I were a Jedi in the clone wars, I would learn from Jedi of the Old Replubic. Master all lightsaber forms. Grow more powerful and knowledgeable in the force. Gain much experience in fighting powerful dark Jedi and powerful Sith lords. I absolutely love the Jedi Order, but complacency was their downfall. Gotta keep growing and elevating.
Well all of the darkside users were in hiding, maybe fight against the huts
@@privateuser3726 The Jedi should have training simulations from the Old Republic era. If nothing else, spar each other, or use a combat droid. The Jedi Order have to be ready, trained, and equipped to fight the Sith. Fighting Huts just won't help a Jedi. The Clones are prepared to fight the separatist. The Sith are trained to fight Jedi. But the Jedi are not trained well enough to compete effectively against a Sith? Something's wrong with that picture.
The Jedi adjusted to their situation not to purposefully seem weak.
the more focused one is on the Force, and carrying out the will of the Force, the stronger they will be.
Another awesome Video, Really enjoyed this one. Keep up the great work!
“A warrior in a time of war will always out match a warrior in a time of piece.”
Dude was in the middle of fighting a Sith Master yet still was comfortable enough to keep an eye on it's padawan's fight to make sure she wouldn't die, that's just true skill right there. There's a reason why he was the battlemaster.
I believe it both helped and harmed the Jedi it helped them persuade leaders away from conflicts but at the same time it left them bereft of the skills needed in combating acolytes of the darkest of human/alien nature. It also led them to the reformations that disallowed knights from studying and learning the truth of the dark side of the force leaving them to further their own weakness. They forgot to be the warrior in the garden and became the gardeners in a war
The Jedi were supposed to be the warrior poets. But became poets and sophists weak and deluded.
In the book apocalypse Luke Skywalker's Jedi were way more prepared for the Sith they took on hundreds of them and they were only a handful and took them on lot more easily
You do realize the sith were waeker than their ancient masters because they had lost most of Thier power and artifacts Luke only won because the sith were waeker than the old masters Darth Traya also stated they were nothing next to the likes of the Old masters
@kathyfriedhoff9152 is true, but it's safe to say Luke's order was far more prepared than the clone wars order.
@@kathyfriedhoff9152 well it was implied that some among the highest level of those sith were capable of standing in the ring as Grandmaster Luke and his order's masters, sure the majority were not, but thats not saying much considering it was Grand master Luke skywalker we are talking about here. also of course the sith of the lost tribe were weaker in the apocalypse book, by that point, Abeloth killed the majority of the stronger sith and only left those that submited to her allure and her coup of the navy alive.
Im not saying Luke's order wasn't prepared, but most of the jedi fighting in the fate of the jedi apocalipse book were the war veterans (who fought palpatine's empire, the many sucsessor states/palpative sith cults and the vong war) whilst the less experienced members of lukes jedi order aren't really mentioned. so comparing their skills the survivors of the lost tribe sith would never have been fair.
id say luke understood the golden rule "stay ready so you dont have to get ready"
Peace without vigilance is the bane of the victorious
If infact the jedi ever really return this is the type of skill and training I'm hoping for
Makes sense. Good analysis.
Yoda led the jedi to weakness .
Qui gon was more surprised because it was over a thousand years later
Speaking as a Guardian I would argue 3 points against the clone war era jedi.
1. After the final Battle of Ruusan the order ran out of saber wielding opponents. This means that any dark jedi to rise up during that time had similar weakness to there Jedi brethren. This state exsisted for 1000 years
2. This meant that the Jedi of that time would set aside the heavy anti-lightsaber forms and focus soly on blast deflection. More over there were no blaster opponets to match them unless in sheer numbers.
3. Thus when a Master like Dooku (who i point out had studied and prefected a dualing form of combat) betrayed the order, this was a major problem.
I hope you see my points and i pray the order will remember these lesson for a future time. We are protecters yet how can we protect if we loose the skill of the blade.
And some people can’t even consider the possibility the ancient sith were more powerful than the modern sith.
Ask most fans Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. the Skywalkers are the most powerful in the force ever. Yoda Mace Windu Count Dooku are the most skilled duelists ever. I don't buy it.
@@BLAZEU. I never understood why the “most powerful Sith Lord ever” lost to a bunch of ragtag rebels multiple times. Why he so easily got yeeted down a shaft. And why a young girl with barely any training reflected his own power back at him to kill him for good. If he was the most powerful he must also have been the laziest and dumbest.
@@wildcaveman5310 well, it’s actually somewhat easy to understand. Palpatine was never defeated by the rebels at all, they may have defeated armies underneath his name or his empire. However, he was never defeated at all until he met Luke Skywalker, and that makes sense because Luke Skywalker is a deus ex machina however, I do agree that Rey Skywalker/Palpatine whatever she wants to call her trash self it’s a modern bullshit that they used as plot convenience as a contrived method to kill Palppy
Are, however, the Sith LordS of the past were really really strong, however once you get to the upper echelon for the top of the pendulum, you realize that the modern error ones are just a step above
So basically, the meteors in the high tears of the ancient generation we’re stronger than the meteors in the high tears of the modern generation however, the top tears of the ancient generation were step below, the top tears of the modern generation. That’s the easiest way to see it.
@@drew8324 did Palpatine go head to head vs the armies of the rebels? Unfortunately no and that would have been a display of real power. Imagine if he faced off against thousands of them. Or better yet if those thousands had been Jedi. Wait that kind of sounds like what Tulak Horde did. You can really say Sidious lost a fight to Luke since they didn’t really fight. Although that would have been even more embarrassing for him to straight up loose to a fresh Jedi with barely any training… wait that’s what happened with Rey. Sure we see Sidious mop the floor with Maul and Savage and clean up 3 council members in 2 seconds but then he looses to Windu and then at best stalemates Yoda (which is a win in the big picture) but the “most powerful Sith Lord of all time” is only in power by not his own skill but luck (or the force which however you want to look at it). No disrespect meant to Windu and Yoda but the old Sith and Jedi were locked in near combat for centuries where only the strongest survived. During Bane’s rule of 2 era the Sith and Jedi had grown soft compared to what they once were. Bane recognized the ancient Sith were in another league. Why did Sidious get out of his chair and go down and personally smoke the rebels? That’s how the sith of old did things. Because they could.
My bottom line is this: if Sidious was the most powerful of all time he must have also been the laziest and the most incompetent. And I can’t bring myself to say the man who orchestrated the final steps of the grand plan was incompetent. Did victory defeat him and make him lazy? Maybe. Not sure what other excuse he could have for loosing 3 death stars and 2 empires with massive armies and yet he rarely does anything himself.
@Grant McInerney many of them are either young and ignorant or probably haven't read/played classic games. It's kinda sad at times
well, since the clone war era jedi were very nearly wiped out entirely, I would say the "new path" wasn't a great idea.
The Jedi of the clone wars fought in a war for three years. The Jedi of the old republic fought the great galactic war for 30. The Jedi of the clone wars fought battle droids. The Jedi of the great galactic war fight battle droids, well trained and disciplined soldiers, and some of the most terrifying Sith the galaxy has ever seen. There really isn’t a comparison here. It’s like you said. Experience outranks everything. There’s also the fact that in the expanded lore Palpatine went through that experiment to strengthen the Darkside. And I think that’s kind of the point that George Lucas tried to make with the prequels. The Jedi are nowhere near their height. These truly are the waning days of not only the Republic but the order.
Ya i see so many people go on about how strong the clone wars jedi when only like a few dozen really contributed to the war the rest ether got in the way orjust didn't really do anything cause they knew they couldn't help much and were more a liability on the battlefield
The old Republic jedi had near constant conflict which made even the more peace focused among them skilled warriors nor were they so regid and narroe minded usually which was s big issue of the clone war jedi snd one reason they got destroyed
throughout human history, any time a scholar or politician weakened military might it has almost always ended badly for the faction that's being weakened. your enemies will never care for your fancy words, nearly that you're dead or dying as they storm past.
Unrelated but I feel Grogu is being set up to turn into the next big Sith.
I agree that Master Coven's policies have destroyed the Jedi. War is a struggle, struggle breeds greatness and strength. Peace only breeds complacency and dulls ones blade, the rest is self explanatory.
Before watching the video i can answer that. They were in war for decades at a time. So they were more military minded and warrior like. Less rules and dogma than clone war jedi. Plus the old Jedi still trained to fight sith. Cw jedi thought they was gone forever. And the cw jedi trained to keep peace instead of fighting for peace like or Jedi.
0:59 *laughs in Jace Malcolm*
yoda and his consequences where a catastrophy for the jedi order
Face it . . . You " CAN'T " beat experience. You can only hope too survive it!
The Old Republic is my favorite era. The Clone wars Jedi were weaker because of Sidious and Plaguis tipping the balance and blinding the Jedi council.
Those two were bosses. Experience is the best teacher.
Wasn't it fairly recently that the Mandalorian War had been finished for 50 years to 200 years, just before the Old Republic?
If it's that close then it's another explanation why the Jedi in the Old Republic were so much stronger but of course I could be wrong about this too.
That also factors in as well as the more recent Jedi Civil War.
The Jedi did become weakened by the reforms. How ever I think it’s hubris that ended the Jedi they thought they were invincible.
And these Jedi were taken down by battle driods and clones. That would never have happened to the battle hardened Knights of the Old Republic who would have cut them down like grass.
i think the only modern jedi that could stand a chance against the old republic jedi are yoda, plo koon, and MAYBE anakin skywalker if he was calm, and trained a bit more
I guess it’s safe to say the Jedi in the old republic stayed in the gym while Jedi in the new republic skipped some days 😂
More like the New Republic Jedi drank Deit Coke.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! WHO IS THE TOGRUTA JEDI IN THE THUMBNAIL!!! I Just searched Google for 3 HOURS & I still can't find it! Somebody Please Help😭
Zallow is my favorite Jedi. I only wish that he could integrate more force based attacks into his sequences. Imagine if he could force push like Satele shan, he would have been a real Challenge for Malgus.
(Disney should have invested into the Old Republic instead of the acoshyte)
7:20 an often underestimated Jedi who could probably hold herself against Sith is Shaak Ti
She died to Starkiller, who wasnt even a sith lord
This is Outrageous!
Good one thx bro have beatyfull day
i wish anakin skywalker was born during that era, the amount of ligthsaber battles that he would have had would be incredible, and he would have developed as a fighter so much more he was a battle junkie he would fit in that era
I have A question for anyone; what do you think about this as A potential character: There was A Sith Lord by the name of Darth Vanity; she was A Sith obsessed with her beauty and power-She lived during the old republic era but when she died she managed to Transcendence and become A Force Ghost. In the present time, she managed to recruit my creative character: her goal is to be resurrected and rule the galaxy with my character but he ultimately betrayed her.
You forget the force. It's like it chooses sides, as plaguies says, when he violates the force by creating a force being (Anakin). His studies into bringing people back from life and death were a big deal. And Plaguies seeing that Anakin was the chosen one says "Have you undone us? talking to the force" Banes sith got stronger with each generation. Jedi stagnation. Banes sith pushed the force towards the darkside and having normal planets embrace darkside like behaviour.
Having so many authors across so many different mediums drawing from different sources and ideologies make it hard to compare the same Jedi through different story's let alone all the Jedi from all the era's, it's fun to debate and talk about but there's always going to be a difference of opinion.
Loved the video just personal taste really but I think you could have made the video even longer if you used Satille instead of her master just how she fight malgus alone is enough to prove they where another level
Nailed it.
So the Jedi of the Clone Wars damn near abandon the old ways to where only a select few Jedi masters can beat a Sith Lord, that right there is why they didn't survive Order 66, had the old ways still been around during the time of the Clone Wars, I believe they survive the Jedi Purge and they would've still been keeping the peace by keeping the citizens of the Galactic Republic safe from the Imperial Empire
The massacre at the Colosseum on Geonosis showed how far Order had fallen.
I think the new policy screwed them over. I mean during the great hyperspace war the Sith had appeared out of nowhere after 300 years. Who says they can’t come back after 1000? They’ve taken a long hiatus befpre. True you shouldn’t be overly cautious but you should still be prepared. That policy is the reason many Jedi were killed by dooku, ventress, grievous, and vader.
..and being that fuckin' stupendously ridiculously POWERFUL, than the plot decided that they need to die like schmucks, pew-pewed by other schmucks that can't hit a barn door from inside ( yes, yes I know, it's just a rumor...right ?! )
I find hilarious the fact that someone can devote so much time and energy to a story, ya know ?!
As it says in the Sith Code...Peace is a lie!
As much as I admire the Jedi I think for as "surprised" as they've been every time the sith have emerged again I can't help but feel and think the Jedi are a little too naive too think that the sith have been completely defeated and more than once at that.After all,there are always Jedi even if it's one or two who are all that is left.....therefore they should always without a doubt realize there will always be sith.Or.....there is no good without evil.....the force is about everything(a.k.a. good and evil) maintaining a balance in the story arc therefore it should be obvious too both sides that the other will exist in some form always and occasionally evil will attempt too rise which will cause fate too enroll the counter rise of all Jedi.
Just look at our history from a century ago. Everyone is eager to believe that the conflict can end.
Well they could have done something about Bane, But the Jedi just chose to ignore him.
The Sith were rendered completely extinct as of TROS, so what do you mean "there will always be Sith"?
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Holocrons exist, and Jedi will continue to fall. They'll be back.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 And the sequel trilogy is not canon.
It kinda stands to reason that the Jedi of old would be better prepared as they were on the war path pretty much all the time. Even Anakin got to be a bad ass thanks to the war. In a nut shell - practice makes perfect :D
The thing is Balance: The greater you have the Jedi combat training, the counter for power has also have to be equally great, thus creating a violent Galactic Society, so the more peaceful the Jedi, so should the Sith, but the Sith took this as a weakness, as it was, and ambushed the entire Jedi Order; so, having a great power, the responsibility is to be virtuous about it, not being violent/abusive but of kindness and help, yet acknowledge it and be trained in it; so you don't get overconfident to be deceived, but neither underskilled to be blindsided and defeated
Its honestly what mace said in episode 1: "The Jedi are Peacekeepers not Soldiers"
I felt a disturbance in the force
I'd say he missed a few jedi who were prepared to fight sith. Shaak Ti for one was known as an absolute master of her form and a powerful force user, Plo Koon as well
Not really.
They were powerful for their time. Important word being ‘time’.
It's like comparing Sulliman The Great’s army when he took Constantinople to a first-world nation’s military and concluding Sulliman’s army is more powerful because a book at the time says it is.
Don’t know if it’s just me but every time I see the scene of Luke trying to kill his nephew I feel betrayed…by starwars
Old is Gold
Darts Malgus was a beast
I do agree with the theory of the decline of the Jedi order but wasn't another part due to the fact that the jedi order was sitting above a secret sith temple that slowly erroded away at their connection to the light side of the force as well?
Yes, that assisted Sideous in his efforts.
But the greatest loss was due to the Jedi refusing to listen to the will of the force as well as letting their fear cloud their judgement.
As the people heal, so does the planet, the force works in mystyrious ways
To be fair Ventress was trained by one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time, snd she used the same form specialized in lightsaber lightsaber combat. So I'm not surprised that she did well against Luminara
Still absurd when an understudy beat a council member. Thats like a girl who picked up a lightsaber 30 minutes ago beating a seasoned and well trained warrior from a prestigious force user bloodline. Oh wait
What video game is the beginning footage from? Please tell me I’m dying to know
I know George Lucas once said that Jedi were like Marshalls of the Old West, but what were his own thoughts on the Jedi/Sith wars which no doubt happened way back when?
Old Republic era is the best in SW. and I honestly don’t want Disney to lay a finger on it but sadly I believe they will and ruin such a legendary era or SW.
I thought Satele Shan wielded a green saber?
No it's blue, it was Zao who used the green saber
What happened was that licas did not write the novels, the people who wrote them did not write them in the same head space. So they overpowered them, obviously.
Like when fans write their own stories for their favourite universe, they overpower their characters.
you are right , but that's using metaknowlage to explain a situation in a fandom. what most fans try do here is interpret it through a purely lore perspective.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 which in my opinion is silly. It's shitty writing to go off kilter and take the story off the cannon power level. I say clone wars feloni style and samurai jack style and prequels is the limit of power levels and tiering and hierarchy for me.
@@You-to-be ok, that is fine, honestly the way I see it ,the power levels changing is just normal for a universe that's been developing for over 40 years. With Lucas's original vision really not mattering as much after the stories began being expanded upon and changing with the fandom, especially after 200 books of development and changes. The way we interpret the changes is either taking them at face value and getting annoyed at the inconsistencies or interpreting them purely lorewise in a way that let's us enjoy the fandom by arguing about which iteration of the Jedi order was the best.
Also for clarification the samurai Jack style animated series actually shows feats that are several orders of magnitude more than the faloni TV show... like the jedi telekinesis and physical enhancements are in line with the original expanded universe lore... like anikin dragging a 250m long ship hundreds of meters fast enough to intercept guided munitions within a second and windu blowing away small armies by himself, punching through half a dozen armored superbattledroids in a second.
Whilst the feloni show is more in line with the new cannon, Anakin struggles with an granade explosion and windu needs 2 seconds to break a plane of armored glass.
@@momtchilboshniakov290 i only use the samurai jack style for tiering, thinking about it the samurai jack version Anakin actually showed Anakin as a powerful dangerous immature jedi. Best Anakin depiction for me. But yeah samurai jack version power level made the separatists scary. Ideal power level would be between CWs feloni and jack version. Leaning more towards jack version
@@You-to-beto be fair, in most of the original EU books luke is kinda in a middle ground between the two shows in his powerlevel, when he has time to concentrate he could mindtrick a whole warship from his fighter several kilometers away, whilst in the same book trilogy he has problems keeping up a physical enhancement. That's really the problem with the whole concentration based magic systems and how to scale them ...
Also, after our conversations reminded me of it... I really wish they continued producing a samurai jack style star wars TV show... it would be amazing if they continued it like they did the actual samurai jack story.
Honestly, I don't think there's a single jedi in the Clone Wars Era that could battle the Old Republic Sith. Even the Jedi Council in the Clone Wars would be defeated by a single Sith Lord from the Old Republic. I also believe the Ruusan Reformation directly led to the decline of the jedi. The Grandmaster's choice to redirect the teachings and neglect lightsaber training the way it had been done during the previous wars also led to the weakening of the Jedi's overall power in the Force. It didn't help that they also started suppressing most of their emotions, believing that positive emotion and even righteous anger could corrupt the jedi and lead to the dark side. I believe that had the jedi continued to train as they had been prior to the Reformation, then the Clone Wars would never have happened the way they did. The Clone War would've still happened, but it would've been very different with Jedi that were trained to handle such situations. The Grand Master at the time of the Ruusan Reformations truly handicapped the Jedi Order with the changes she made.
4:52 who is the female jedi? And what movie/series is this? I have never seen it before.
Thank you for the reply.
I love this channel
What show did those animated fight scenes come from?