Clone Wars Jedi had a stick up their asses and it cost them their lives. Growing up is realizing they were cool, but not that wise. They carefully crafted their own destruction when they fulfilled the will of the government instead of the force. And when they failed to teach their “wise peacekeepers” how not to be selfish, murderous, distrustful or just generally an asshole. All these problems caused by the Jedi Order contributed to Anakin’s reasons for destroying them. I say it was valid.
@@amateur-madman3047also the fact that sidious did use order 66 on them. If sidious or the sith never existed, eventually the jedi order would have a second great schism likely caused by Anakin, Ahsoka, and a lot of jedi padawans and knights and MAYBE just maybe plo koon (I don’t think Obi wan would since he’s strictly loyal to the council)
When you talk about pre Skywalker Star Wars, i feel sad. Not because i dislike your content. But because i miss this era of Star Wars. I loved Star Wars before the dark times....before Disney.
Hate to break it to you, but LucasFilms was acquired in 2012. So this era, was during Disney. So not sure what to tell you. Unless, you're specifically talking about the legends vs canon situation?
@@AkodoGarou I'm well aware of when they bought Lucasfilm. I'm specifically stating the stories before the purchase. Mainly the Expanded Universe, Thrawn Saga, Fate of the Jedi and Legacy. All great story arcs that respected the lore of legacy characters.
@@HellfireClub242 I see where you're coming from. And for me, a long time star wars nerd, don't care what they did with Canon and non-canon, I'm still loving and collecting the old, and give no fucks. Haha. It's real in my head canon
@@AkodoGarou nah not really. like this was already being made by the time they got it plus once they did have it they didn't really do anything to keep them doing what they wanted with it.
This youtuber’s dedication to starwars, marvel, and Jurassic park/world is literally PERFECT. I’ve been a fan of yours ever since the beginning and I do love your Avengers action figures. May the force be with you my old friend.
Anakin never would have turned to the dark side if the Jedi order was still like this during the clone wars, in fact there's a good chance that palps would have gotten his ass handed to him if he wasn't careful and didn't adjust his plans accordingly
Even a basic low tier Jedi would make him pee his pants. This lowly Jedi can easily take Palpatines head off if he don’t take them seriously, let alone a master Jedi who can not only steamroll through Palpatines attacks, but dominate him.
If the Jedi Order had by like this leading up to the Clone Wars era, there is a very good chance that Palpatine would have been discovered and trained by the Jedi themselves. The Sith were literally at the edge of extinction during the Rule of 2 era, so if the Jedi had maintained this level of battle readiness, rather than assuming the Sith were gone, then more than likely there wouldn't have even been any sith left to teach Palpatine to begin with.
@@VincentCallaghan-e1ino he isn't lol. Cool he cracked the universe. Vitiate was literally the incarnation of the dark side. He was legit known as "the dark entity" dude was so powerful it took everybody to stop fighting eachother and work to take him out, Jedi, sith, Imperials, republic, cartel, mandalorians, revans remnants, Voss, zakuulian empire, etc etc! Palpatine has nothing on the old republic era Jedi/Sith
@@OdinsDraugr69420I agree vitiate was more powerful than palpatine but palpatine was still stronger than I’d say almost all of the Jedi even during the old republic era, this video hyped em up but the sith empire almost destroyed them more than once and struck many decisive blows against them throughout both wars and were a bit stronger than them through most of the war after the cold war ended.
The Old Republic Jedi (SWTOR video game) is very action packed and there are virtually no restrictions on things like romantic relationships and families like we see in the eras of the mainstream focus in star wars. Baby Yoda (Grogu) would never have had to choose between being a jedi or staying with his Space Dad. Satele Shan herself had/has a son and while she distanced herself from him later in her life she reconnects because of how much they miss each other. She also wasn't afraid to forge alliances with pragmatic Dark Side Imperials - namely Darth Marr - in order to defeat the greater threat that was the Sith Emperor. Also keep in mind the sheer number of thousands of Light Side and Dark Side force users all of whom were battle hardened. When the Sith Emperor (Valkorian as he is mostly known as) grew in power every Jedi and Sith could feel his presence in the Force and his power. So much so that while the Sith Empire would always have an Emperor - following Valkorian's death the Sith abandoned all pretenses of the Emperor being mysterious and all powerful. The Dark Council had so much more say in the affairs of the Empire that it operated less like what you see in the movies (the Rule of Two) and more like an Authoritarian Empire with a clear head of state. So if you were to take Darth Sidious and put him in the time period of The Old Republic... no, there's no way he had the power that Valkorian wielded with the Force and with just how many Force sensitives (and so many battle hardened jedi and sith) he couldn't hide his presence the way he did in the Clone Wars and following. The Jedi were far more decisive and also SEPARATE from the Republic's military. If they felt there was a growing threat they didn't just sit by and raise their hand asking: "may I?" They just formed entire strike teams and loaded into the ships with their lightsabers expecting combat. Decisiveness was the rule of thumb in Satele Shan's Jedi Order.
@MaraJadeSkywalker. Oh please. The ROTS novel was written without any consideration to anything going on at Bioware, and TOR, which is the game Satele comes from, hadn't even been released yet when Stover wrote it (and wouldn't be for several years, in fact). Don't try to use something *obviously* not applicable as your main argument.
This will always be the case, if SWTOR makes a evil baddie who is clearly more powerfull then our heroes and villains in the movies. People will still say stuff like: but... but papa palps was the strongest ever, it is written! But but The novel says so.... I always claim that vitiate was stronger then palps but people keep bringing up the same outdated stuff.... People will keep bringing up outdated words from decades ago...
Finally, I can now point people to who think the Clone Wars Characters such as Vader, Luke, Bane, and others can match those of the Old Republic. Thank You Stupendous Wave for your eternal well of knowledge concerning the great mysteries and answers that linger within the Holocrons. ❤
100% facts 😊👍 I always vote for the old republic above the trilogies. I grew up with the KOTOR and SWTOR games instead of the movies, so nobody can convince me otherwise 😅
Even against Anakin before he got burned? During his time at the Jedi temple the only thing that the chosen one was interested in was lightsaber combat.
@@tommoore2012 And that is why he should not become a Master to begin with, Strength is useless without wisdom to guide it. And Anakin clearly lacks the Wisdom of a Master. Doesn't mean he is the Chosen One and has strong lightsaber skills that he should get frontrow tickets to become a Master. And for that, it isn't the Powerfull jedi that could beat vader/Anakin in a fight, it were the Wise ones that could.
The old republic is seriously the best lore in star wars...why does Disney insist on making up shit when you have all this golden legends content right here???🤷🏾🤷🏾
The Sith during this era were also interesting. Old Republic has some amazing lore. There was even a Sith who-seeking power-accidentally stumbled upon an ideology similar to the Jedi way. He insisted that this offered greater power.
This is perfect! Satele was perfect Grandmaster.Old Republic Jedi were pure powerhouse.They should have continue. This is perfect! May the Force be with you too😀
this commentary on the old republic jedi reminds me on SIdeous' thoughts on why Obi-Won was able to best Darth Vader on Mustofar. Kenobi went into combat with a singular focus on doing whatever needed to be done in order to destroy the SIth, personal feelings and opinions aside. Trusting in the force fully to grant himself the capability to do whatever was necessary for the Jedi to prevail
I'm not the only one that noticed that Satile used the Juyo opening against Malgus on Alderaan, right? And since Vapaad was invented by Mace Windu and Sora Balk, then she's NOT using the light side variant of form 7. I'd say that the fact that they're more open to the ENTIRE force, they're more powerful than any force order.
@@DeathScepter Technically, although the Sith claim it as dark side aligned since it requires tapping into battle lust to use correctly and as such is highly addictive and potentially dangerous for Jedi as it can cause them to fall to the draw of the dark side if not disciplined enough
The jedi were war Veterans for sure during the old republic. The jedi were also more gifted. There was this jedi named 'Jeasa Willsaam' who had the gift in the force to sense a person's True Nature, revealing Spies and sith infiltrators immediatly. This litterly summarizes that if a sith tries to pull off a 'Palpatine' that it would fail. Imagine the jedi of the clone wars having a jedi gifted with this gift, Palpatine would be discovered way to quickly. I always root for the old republic jedi & Sith, they are so COOL! Edit: imagine a Hero of Tython vs Darth Vader or palpatine... sorry but neither will be able to beat my jedi knight 😂
The Hero of Tython is made of pure bullshit and plot armor lol. He literally solos the entire Sith Order in the OT era without taking a single wound on account of the sheer force of his 'good guys must win' plot elements. Seriously, the canon TOR protagonist is as much a Mary Sue as we accuse a certain Disney character of being. S'why I vastly prefer the Sith characters.
@@ASNS117Zero probably all of them are. I dont expect a Smuggler to take on Revan Reborn or Arcann. And yea, its cuz its a MMORPG. They cant just kill off our characters. Yes, the outlander is a god by now. The devs try their best to still make our characters look vulnerable. But there is nothing they can't beat in the end
@@ASNS117ZeroThe Sith characters have the same plot armor as the Jedi characters do. Sith Inquisitor should have been ripped apart by the force ghosts he absorbs. Either way the characters term would still destroy all the clone wars force users. Let's face it Sorcerer and Sage both have their own armies by the time you hit Corellia.
I think that Jedi won the wor so quikly is not only because of their power, but Sith and they killing each other. No matter which dark side class you chose you will see that Sith are destroying themself from inside. The only things that were keepinh them together like some of Dark Council members like Nox, Marr and Wrath
@MaraJadeSkywalker. This is the problem of the Sith, they will never change, even after Fall of their Empire, Sith were still fighting against each other. If Sith could Unite and explore Force more freelry like Jedi they would beat th living shit of Jedi Order
Regarding the power possessed by the Old Republic Jedi, and whether they should have kept it, I feel compelled to call upon a great quote from an animated special. "Do you know WHY we followed him so easily? The only time he ever called upon that power was when someone ELSE needed it! He GAVE the power away!" I, for one, think it was perhaps the WISEST decision in the history of the Order to STOP calling upon and wielding that kind of power. As the video stated, though this era represents the highest peak of power the Jedi achieved, they were ALSO losing people to the darkness. Power corrupts, and the more you have the more you want it. The funny thing about power is that while you NEED it, you don't really HAVE it. And when you DO have it, you don't need it. Consider for a moment that we are not, strictly speaking, talking about the Jedi coming out of hiding and knights walking through Sith Lords left, right, and center. They returned clearly, albeit only marginally stronger than the Sith of the time. They NEEDED power but they were still relatively equal to their enemies, so they didn't HAVE power. Now, when that conflict was finished they HAD what most would consider vast power, but with no enemy to wield it against they didn't NEED it. Keeping all that power, all that skill and training would have led SOMEONE to dabble in the Dark Side and within 20 years there would have been another schism.
Who cares. Trillions of people were killed because the Jedi let themselves get weak with bureaucracy, squabbles, and self importance. They have one job - keep the Dark Side in check so common folk could go about their personal lives and commerce in peace - so some farmer could sell his crops, provide for his family, put the kids through college. And they failed. They could have used a benevolent dictator, like Revan, as a Grandmaster, to keep them reminded of their ONLY job. Their cycle of going round and round repeating the same cycles and mistakes is what fools do - inexcusable when they have one of the greatest archives of knowledge from throughout the galaxy. But then maybe it’s not so easy, looking at ourselves reinventing the wheel every generation.
The old Republic is literally star wars peak writing and a jedi order that could kill sith and stopped evil in its tracks is my favorite type of jedi order.
Basically Satele created a Grey jedi order, something that Luke thousands of years later would discover which is why he and any jedi after was so strong. I don't agree with episodes 7-9 but that would possibly explain Rey and Kylo. Satele is her for real probably one of my favorite jedi
I feel like this description of the jedi is very very similiar to what happened with Obi-Wan when he faced Anakin. He was powerful because he was resolute. Because he could not fail.
The difference in mind set between them is what crushed Anakin, if he had been in the Old Republic era he would have been on par or stronger than Revan. Shame that the clone wars era held him back so much. Ironic that fear leads to the dark side and yet fear of everything is what the clone wars era jedi were all about. They feared Anakin they, feared the separatists, they feared the chancellor, they feared losing their connection to the force, they reeked of fear.
This is an awesome video. I honestly wish they had continued on the path Sateele started with being more open to the force as a whole rather than light vs dark. The closest I feel like we get between Sateele and Luke to someone like them is Qui-gon Jinn. Qui-gon was more of a follow the force jedi than light vs dark like the rest of the counsle during his time and had he survived Maul I feel like he'd have done some amazing things for the jedi order. Not to say light vs dark isnt important but he'd have been more open and had a better understanding than most of the force as a whole which I think is a key part of what made Sateele and Luke so powerful.
This explains the Jedi Lord Period how they just said "nope, were not doing this shit all over again, taken over a planet now," and then they skull fucked the sith after a few generations so totally that the jedi order was jaut a shell of its former self the following millenia
Most jedi of this era also became force ghosts upon death something that had to be rediscovered by Qui and Yoda. They also used insane abilities that most modern jedi would consider impossible. These Jedi were the best of all time. Really goes well with George's original tale of the modern jedi were corrupted and failed anakin.
I remember reading the novelization of Episode 2 of Star Wars, where Palpatine acknowledges that current day Jedi are a pale shadow compared to the past. If he had tried his stunt in ancient times, he would likely have been busted almost immediately.
The Clone Wars Era Jedi got complacent in their power and failed to consider that if the Jedi of the past could adapt and change, then the Sith of the present and future could as well. It was their arrogance and their own power and mindset that cost them the war. I love hearing about this kind of stuff.
Even these Jedi got complacent and over confident. Which is visible when Darth Malgus attacked the Jedi Temple of Coruscant, and he, and a few dozen Sith wiped out almost the entire population within the temple. Including one of the greatest Jedi duelists of his time, Master Ven Zallow. But those Jedi learnt a hard lesson, and quickly got their act together. (for the most part)
I think the structure of the order was holding them back. When Luke was learning as much about the Force as he could. He didn't have the Jedi archives, thanks to Sidious hiding or destroying them. So he studied the Force in as many cultures and religions as possible. Unbiased and open to learning, eventually becoming God tier during the Vong invasion.
If the Jedi had maintained this mindset. It would have changed the course of Star Wars history. Anakin may have still slipped to the dark side. Or he simply could have been forced out of the order. Due to his love for Padme, and their babies. But that little change could have averted so many events.
They should have not only kept it, they should have further explored insights and behaviors in how to safely explore the Force while remaining in the light. Fewer Jedi may have fallen, fewer would be blinded by the Dark Side and its powers and more would be capable in the long term of holding to the light.
Somehow, Satele would have made a wonderful Sith in her quest for power, which could also explain why she got along well with Darth Marr to a certain degree.
I'll be blunt, had Satele Shan of lived during the Clone Wars era or was in some way resurrected, she'd smack Anakin, off Palpatine and then "humble" the Jedi Masters about how stupid they were being.
Except.. She wouldn't. Maybe smack Anakin. But she would not have known of Palpatines' true identity either. Sith sorcery hid his true face. And no one would've known the truth, until it was too late.
Anakin would’ve fit in perfectly during this era . Hopefully they’ll be done with the Imperial era soon and we could finally see the true power of force wielders on screen or in animation. I kinda want them to scrap everything and start over and makes some of the legends content like Luke’s order canon.
it was neccesary at the time but good that they changed back afterwards. IN times of peace they are keepers of peace, in times of war they are soldiers
Overwhelming force is how you defeat the enemy. War is not meant to be fair. Winning means the survival of you and who you protected. Grandmaster Satele’s Jedi understood this. This is why the military train so hard and spend so much money to prepare for war. You don’t want an even fight because you might lose you need overwhelming force to protect those who can’t protect themselves. The Jedi should have remained that powerful.
it seems right that when even Yoda believed Satele Shan was stronger in the Force than he was that , I consider her the strongest Grandmaster who created the strongest jedi. No dogma eliminates the arrogance many Grandmasters had including Yoda. Later eras the jedi were not forged in battle and became complacent. That is why it fell and never was able to arise again.
He ended the threat of the mandalorians (who were secretly backed by the till then unknown sith empire). He would go and find this threat only to be imprisoned for nearly 400 years by vitiate. He was killed by a fuggin random player group. I don’t dive into the ghost of revan shit that followed a few years later but vitiate was just badass.
I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if Anakin was a Jedi in this era. Fall to the darkside in this time yes but rehabilitated he would be and in so doing reaching the full might of the chosen one. Anakin would be sharper on the battlefield at peace in mind as he would learn to fight with everything he had while still holding true to his heart he would give his fear over to the fire and let it burn
If anakin would be a jedi in this Era I'm sure he would marry satele. I don't believe that anakin would turn to the darkside. I believe that satele would understand anakin. If she were to have children with anakin, they would have overpowered children. Maybe anakin would end up grand Master and He would have changed the way the Jedi thought.
@@johnledesma9996 if for nothing else satele is a baddie (had to get that off my chest) but I think he would. I come from the thought of in order to reach the full might of the chosen one he has to experience both sides of the force first hand and that would give him the full understanding of the force that Luke would get towards the end of his life. For me it’s like in canon he was a Jedi but then fell to the darkside, died and became a force ghost and then in Asoka when we see him use the light side and then call upon his powers in the darkside (flashing Vader) I could see him being grandmaster and it’d be beautiful if he changed the Jedi’s ideology
@raiderax8532 Yeah, She is, I just thought that if anakin married satele that luke would probably be more powerful. I wasn't sure if it's kind of like dragon ball z where half saiyans are more powerful and maybe anakin and padme produced stronger jedi or if anakin and satele would have produced stronger jedi since that would combine satele and anakins mediclorians. It was just a thought I had that I wanted to ask. Thanks for answering.
@@johnledesma9996 it’s very much possible Luke would be strong like WAAAAY stronger but in the end it all comes down to the mediclorians you get and what you can do with it anakin and satele making Luke could end up in a force God type shit and would easily stomp abeloth no timberland 😤
Satele most likely would've sniffed out Palpatine and Qui Gon would most likely still be alive. My question would be how she would handle the legitimate grievances of the CIS? Alternatively she could've also seen what Dooku saw that caused him to lose faith in the Jedi and worked to correct it.
So what happened to Tython between when the ancient Jedi left it to it's rediscovery by Satele? When it was left there were catastrophic storms and other natural disasters if the Force wasn't in perfect balance on the planet. But when Satele and the other Jedi recolonized it, it was almost full Light Side focused by them and nothing bad happened.
They are a generation, that has been hardened and refined thr5ough the fire and crucible of the great galactic war. So no surprised that they were already a deadly and veritable fighting force, capable of taking on the sith. Satale's reforms merely enhanced and burnished their fighting prowess and abilities in the force to near unhear of levels that they would have ultimately beaten the sith once the great galactic war resumed if the eternal empire hadn't intervened before they could. It was a fine strategy for what was in a sense a period of prolonged and open warfare, that the jedi wouldn't see again until the new sith wars and formation of the army of light, that it is no surprise that in peace time, the jedi reverted to a different and more fitting philosophy for that era.
I kinda have a theory. What if Anakin wasn’t the only person made or “influenced” to be the strongest. Anakin was made to balance the Force, both sides of it. But what if the Dark Side made or influenced another being before him? Darth Sidious was so powerful that he even came close to the Son. Who embodied the Dark Side. There’s more things like even Sidious himself wondered if anyone before him was stronger than him.
I'd say, imo, Luke's Jedi order was better, with Satele's being at number 2. Because I feel like Luke did a better job at preparing his Jedi for the dangers of the Dark Side than Satele did. Especially after how bad she handled the war with Zakuul.
Lol like how Luke handled and failed to stop his nephew both in Canon and in Legends lol,At least she was properly voted to be Grand Master of the order and went through the proper training for it from Jedi masters who actually cared to teach her things she needed to know where Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda failed to teach Luke,Shit they barely tought him anything about any other force abilities or proper lightsaber training so yeah want me to keep going on how she was better then Luke and how her Jedi order outlived his?
Qui-Gon and satele leading the Jedi would have made them unstoppable, since Satele lead these Jedi to fully opening to the force while making sure they remained hardened warriors, quigon would have helped keep that balance making sure the Jedi didn’t lose that strong spiritual connection to the Force
i believe they should have kept the teachings of satele and her way of teaching because generations of evoling under her teachings could have prepared the jedi for order 66 and they would have seen it sooner
It is the way of all things to rise or fall to the stresses of their times. The jedi of this time rose to fight the very real possibility of extermination. They were eventually SO successful that they created the conditions that led largely to a peaceful period of nearly a thousand years and grew softer to those times. Despite the very real machinations of the Sith during this period, that is still a stunning accomplishment worthy of the ages that they kept the pendulum from swinging back for that long. But, swing back it must, eventually. Give them credit where due. It took historically clever, and convoluted planning to bring the Order down once again. And in the end, all that did was serve to rebalance the Force.
She was stronger than Yoda and blocked a lightsaber with her hand topping Yoda's stop of lighting and Yoda's push on sidous as impressive as it was, SHE BLASTED MALGUS THROUGH A FREAKING MOUNTAIN
Stronger faith, more open to experimentation, and they were open to ways of fighting that the Clone Wars Jedi were not.
Clone Wars Jedi had a stick up their asses and it cost them their lives. Growing up is realizing they were cool, but not that wise. They carefully crafted their own destruction when they fulfilled the will of the government instead of the force. And when they failed to teach their “wise peacekeepers” how not to be selfish, murderous, distrustful or just generally an asshole. All these problems caused by the Jedi Order contributed to Anakin’s reasons for destroying them. I say it was valid.
@@amateur-madman3047also the fact that sidious did use order 66 on them. If sidious or the sith never existed, eventually the jedi order would have a second great schism likely caused by Anakin, Ahsoka, and a lot of jedi padawans and knights and MAYBE just maybe plo koon (I don’t think Obi wan would since he’s strictly loyal to the council)
@@amateur-madman3047That’s the difference between environments. Incredible really.
Facts
Facts
When you talk about pre Skywalker Star Wars, i feel sad. Not because i dislike your content. But because i miss this era of Star Wars. I loved Star Wars before the dark times....before Disney.
Hate to break it to you, but LucasFilms was acquired in 2012. So this era, was during Disney. So not sure what to tell you. Unless, you're specifically talking about the legends vs canon situation?
@@AkodoGarou I'm well aware of when they bought Lucasfilm. I'm specifically stating the stories before the purchase. Mainly the Expanded Universe, Thrawn Saga, Fate of the Jedi and Legacy. All great story arcs that respected the lore of legacy characters.
@@HellfireClub242 I see where you're coming from. And for me, a long time star wars nerd, don't care what they did with Canon and non-canon, I'm still loving and collecting the old, and give no fucks. Haha. It's real in my head canon
@@AkodoGarou nah not really. like this was already being made by the time they got it plus once they did have it they didn't really do anything to keep them doing what they wanted with it.
You were never a real Star Wars fan. George Lucas was much more radical in his politics than Disney.
This youtuber’s dedication to starwars, marvel, and Jurassic park/world is literally PERFECT. I’ve been a fan of yours ever since the beginning and I do love your Avengers action figures. May the force be with you my old friend.
High republic jedi = The spoiled children.
Old republic jedi = veteran marine corp.
There is reason why the High Republic Jedi are barely covered.
😂😂😂
@@aster4jaden good point
Because they are of the Age of Kathleen Kennedy.
This comment here. Full stop. 😂😂😂💪💪💪
Anakin never would have turned to the dark side if the Jedi order was still like this during the clone wars, in fact there's a good chance that palps would have gotten his ass handed to him if he wasn't careful and didn't adjust his plans accordingly
Even a basic low tier Jedi would make him pee his pants. This lowly Jedi can easily take Palpatines head off if he don’t take them seriously, let alone a master Jedi who can not only steamroll through Palpatines attacks, but dominate him.
Except Palpatine is the most powerful sith ever. Even in legends continuity. He would've run through the old republic very easily.
If the Jedi Order had by like this leading up to the Clone Wars era, there is a very good chance that Palpatine would have been discovered and trained by the Jedi themselves. The Sith were literally at the edge of extinction during the Rule of 2 era, so if the Jedi had maintained this level of battle readiness, rather than assuming the Sith were gone, then more than likely there wouldn't have even been any sith left to teach Palpatine to begin with.
@@VincentCallaghan-e1ino he isn't lol. Cool he cracked the universe. Vitiate was literally the incarnation of the dark side. He was legit known as "the dark entity" dude was so powerful it took everybody to stop fighting eachother and work to take him out, Jedi, sith, Imperials, republic, cartel, mandalorians, revans remnants, Voss, zakuulian empire, etc etc! Palpatine has nothing on the old republic era Jedi/Sith
@@OdinsDraugr69420I agree vitiate was more powerful than palpatine but palpatine was still stronger than I’d say almost all of the Jedi even during the old republic era, this video hyped em up but the sith empire almost destroyed them more than once and struck many decisive blows against them throughout both wars and were a bit stronger than them through most of the war after the cold war ended.
If Satele was grand master leading up to the Clone Wars, the Sith wouldn't have stood a chance!!
Palpatine would not pull a fast one on her and Qui-Gon Jinn and her would be best friends
The Old Republic Jedi (SWTOR video game) is very action packed and there are virtually no restrictions on things like romantic relationships and families like we see in the eras of the mainstream focus in star wars. Baby Yoda (Grogu) would never have had to choose between being a jedi or staying with his Space Dad. Satele Shan herself had/has a son and while she distanced herself from him later in her life she reconnects because of how much they miss each other. She also wasn't afraid to forge alliances with pragmatic Dark Side Imperials - namely Darth Marr - in order to defeat the greater threat that was the Sith Emperor.
Also keep in mind the sheer number of thousands of Light Side and Dark Side force users all of whom were battle hardened. When the Sith Emperor (Valkorian as he is mostly known as) grew in power every Jedi and Sith could feel his presence in the Force and his power. So much so that while the Sith Empire would always have an Emperor - following Valkorian's death the Sith abandoned all pretenses of the Emperor being mysterious and all powerful. The Dark Council had so much more say in the affairs of the Empire that it operated less like what you see in the movies (the Rule of Two) and more like an Authoritarian Empire with a clear head of state.
So if you were to take Darth Sidious and put him in the time period of The Old Republic... no, there's no way he had the power that Valkorian wielded with the Force and with just how many Force sensitives (and so many battle hardened jedi and sith) he couldn't hide his presence the way he did in the Clone Wars and following. The Jedi were far more decisive and also SEPARATE from the Republic's military. If they felt there was a growing threat they didn't just sit by and raise their hand asking: "may I?" They just formed entire strike teams and loaded into the ships with their lightsabers expecting combat. Decisiveness was the rule of thumb in Satele Shan's Jedi Order.
@MaraJadeSkywalker. Oh please. The ROTS novel was written without any consideration to anything going on at Bioware, and TOR, which is the game Satele comes from, hadn't even been released yet when Stover wrote it (and wouldn't be for several years, in fact). Don't try to use something *obviously* not applicable as your main argument.
This will always be the case, if SWTOR makes a evil baddie who is clearly more powerfull then our heroes and villains in the movies.
People will still say stuff like: but... but papa palps was the strongest ever, it is written! But but The novel says so....
I always claim that vitiate was stronger then palps but people keep bringing up the same outdated stuff....
People will keep bringing up outdated words from decades ago...
Palpatine would've massacred everyone of that era, even in legends continuity.
Satile shan is amazing and shes a very underrated jedi and shes one of the most powerful in all of Starwars .
Finally, I can now point people to who think the Clone Wars Characters such as Vader, Luke, Bane, and others can match those of the Old Republic. Thank You Stupendous Wave for your eternal well of knowledge concerning the great mysteries and answers that linger within the Holocrons. ❤
100% facts 😊👍
I always vote for the old republic above the trilogies.
I grew up with the KOTOR and SWTOR games instead of the movies, so nobody can convince me otherwise 😅
Took u long enough.
Even against Anakin before he got burned? During his time at the Jedi temple the only thing that the chosen one was interested in was lightsaber combat.
@@tommoore2012 And that is why he should not become a Master to begin with, Strength is useless without wisdom to guide it. And Anakin clearly lacks the Wisdom of a Master.
Doesn't mean he is the Chosen One and has strong lightsaber skills that he should get frontrow tickets to become a Master.
And for that, it isn't the Powerfull jedi that could beat vader/Anakin in a fight, it were the Wise ones that could.
@@galacticfirefly Facts bro 😎👍
The old republic is seriously the best lore in star wars...why does Disney insist on making up shit when you have all this golden legends content right here???🤷🏾🤷🏾
Disney is greedy and prideful like a Sith. They want to have their own legacy, not pay the authors their residuals for using old lore.
The "message" is more important then anything else
If they go back too far they have to talk about the Jedi sex scandal and the lawsuits will start again and it’s just a massive headache
Don't urge them to destroy what's left.
@@jeffreyblock16 I'm sorry come again?
The thumbnail Armor and lightsaber is awesome
The Sith during this era were also interesting. Old Republic has some amazing lore.
There was even a Sith who-seeking power-accidentally stumbled upon an ideology similar to the Jedi way. He insisted that this offered greater power.
This is perfect! Satele was perfect Grandmaster.Old Republic Jedi were pure powerhouse.They should have continue. This is perfect! May the Force be with you too😀
Not to mention the old Republic jedi of Satele Shans time were still Training like an Army on Standby
Love it. Wish I could watch a series of this era.
this commentary on the old republic jedi reminds me on SIdeous' thoughts on why Obi-Won was able to best Darth Vader on Mustofar. Kenobi went into combat with a singular focus on doing whatever needed to be done in order to destroy the SIth, personal feelings and opinions aside. Trusting in the force fully to grant himself the capability to do whatever was necessary for the Jedi to prevail
During Old Republic Era Jedi truly feel as Knights that dominate the battlefield rather than monks forced to fight.
I have her journal from the swtor collectors edition way back when! She’s my favorite character
I'm not the only one that noticed that Satile used the Juyo opening against Malgus on Alderaan, right? And since Vapaad was invented by Mace Windu and Sora Balk, then she's NOT using the light side variant of form 7.
I'd say that the fact that they're more open to the ENTIRE force, they're more powerful than any force order.
Juyo is a Force Neutral Lightsaber form that both Jedi and Sith used.
@@DeathScepter Technically, although the Sith claim it as dark side aligned since it requires tapping into battle lust to use correctly and as such is highly addictive and potentially dangerous for Jedi as it can cause them to fall to the draw of the dark side if not disciplined enough
The jedi were war Veterans for sure during the old republic.
The jedi were also more gifted. There was this jedi named 'Jeasa Willsaam' who had the gift in the force to sense a person's True Nature, revealing Spies and sith infiltrators immediatly. This litterly summarizes that if a sith tries to pull off a 'Palpatine' that it would fail.
Imagine the jedi of the clone wars having a jedi gifted with this gift, Palpatine would be discovered way to quickly.
I always root for the old republic jedi & Sith, they are so COOL!
Edit: imagine a Hero of Tython vs Darth Vader or palpatine... sorry but neither will be able to beat my jedi knight 😂
Obviously bruv 😁😄
The Hero of Tython is made of pure bullshit and plot armor lol. He literally solos the entire Sith Order in the OT era without taking a single wound on account of the sheer force of his 'good guys must win' plot elements.
Seriously, the canon TOR protagonist is as much a Mary Sue as we accuse a certain Disney character of being. S'why I vastly prefer the Sith characters.
@@ASNS117Zero probably all of them are. I dont expect a Smuggler to take on Revan Reborn or Arcann.
And yea, its cuz its a MMORPG. They cant just kill off our characters. Yes, the outlander is a god by now.
The devs try their best to still make our characters look vulnerable. But there is nothing they can't beat in the end
The Barsen'thor would beat Palp and Vader like a couple of cheap drums.
@@ASNS117ZeroThe Sith characters have the same plot armor as the Jedi characters do. Sith Inquisitor should have been ripped apart by the force ghosts he absorbs. Either way the characters term would still destroy all the clone wars force users. Let's face it Sorcerer and Sage both have their own armies by the time you hit Corellia.
I think that Jedi won the wor so quikly is not only because of their power, but Sith and they killing each other. No matter which dark side class you chose you will see that Sith are destroying themself from inside. The only things that were keepinh them together like some of Dark Council members like Nox, Marr and Wrath
And the emperors abandonement weakened them even more
@@1qplayer626 It weakened their morale also, as there was created huge gap in power
@MaraJadeSkywalker. This is the problem of the Sith, they will never change, even after Fall of their Empire, Sith were still fighting against each other. If Sith could Unite and explore Force more freelry like Jedi they would beat th living shit of Jedi Order
@@DarthNox66 thats why valk created the zakuul knights. They were balanced and studied more freely than sith or jedi
@@1qplayer626 Yeah but they were powered by Valk himself, so after he died they probably became weaker
The old republic era was a dominant age for Jedi and Sith. It was just the best era.
Regarding the power possessed by the Old Republic Jedi, and whether they should have kept it, I feel compelled to call upon a great quote from an animated special.
"Do you know WHY we followed him so easily? The only time he ever called upon that power was when someone ELSE needed it! He GAVE the power away!"
I, for one, think it was perhaps the WISEST decision in the history of the Order to STOP calling upon and wielding that kind of power. As the video stated, though this era represents the highest peak of power the Jedi achieved, they were ALSO losing people to the darkness. Power corrupts, and the more you have the more you want it.
The funny thing about power is that while you NEED it, you don't really HAVE it. And when you DO have it, you don't need it. Consider for a moment that we are not, strictly speaking, talking about the Jedi coming out of hiding and knights walking through Sith Lords left, right, and center. They returned clearly, albeit only marginally stronger than the Sith of the time. They NEEDED power but they were still relatively equal to their enemies, so they didn't HAVE power.
Now, when that conflict was finished they HAD what most would consider vast power, but with no enemy to wield it against they didn't NEED it. Keeping all that power, all that skill and training would have led SOMEONE to dabble in the Dark Side and within 20 years there would have been another schism.
Who cares. Trillions of people were killed because the Jedi let themselves get weak with bureaucracy, squabbles, and self importance. They have one job - keep the Dark Side in check so common folk could go about their personal lives and commerce in peace - so some farmer could sell his crops, provide for his family, put the kids through college. And they failed.
They could have used a benevolent dictator, like Revan, as a Grandmaster, to keep them reminded of their ONLY job. Their cycle of going round and round repeating the same cycles and mistakes is what fools do - inexcusable when they have one of the greatest archives of knowledge from throughout the galaxy.
But then maybe it’s not so easy, looking at ourselves reinventing the wheel every generation.
Old Republic Best Era
The old Republic is literally star wars peak writing and a jedi order that could kill sith and stopped evil in its tracks is my favorite type of jedi order.
Basically Satele created a Grey jedi order, something that Luke thousands of years later would discover which is why he and any jedi after was so strong. I don't agree with episodes 7-9 but that would possibly explain Rey and Kylo. Satele is her for real probably one of my favorite jedi
KEEN AS.!!! Would love to see some trilogies of this era 😍 👌
Why can't we get movies or anime of these stories wow again thank you for the videos 😊
I feel like this description of the jedi is very very similiar to what happened with Obi-Wan when he faced Anakin. He was powerful because he was resolute. Because he could not fail.
Best time in Jedi Order imo would love this to be live action moving forward
The difference in mind set between them is what crushed Anakin, if he had been in the Old Republic era he would have been on par or stronger than Revan. Shame that the clone wars era held him back so much. Ironic that fear leads to the dark side and yet fear of everything is what the clone wars era jedi were all about. They feared Anakin they, feared the separatists, they feared the chancellor, they feared losing their connection to the force, they reeked of fear.
Excellent points! Nicely done.
That’s the irony of it.
Excellent video 👍
This is the era that made Jedi who could eventually team up to contend with vitiate. And Vitiate was hypothetically unbeatable.
This is an awesome video. I honestly wish they had continued on the path Sateele started with being more open to the force as a whole rather than light vs dark. The closest I feel like we get between Sateele and Luke to someone like them is Qui-gon Jinn. Qui-gon was more of a follow the force jedi than light vs dark like the rest of the counsle during his time and had he survived Maul I feel like he'd have done some amazing things for the jedi order. Not to say light vs dark isnt important but he'd have been more open and had a better understanding than most of the force as a whole which I think is a key part of what made Sateele and Luke so powerful.
THIS is why people come to The Stupendous Wave!
Not having the Sith around to fight with made the Jedi weak and complacent by the time of the Clone Wars
This explains the Jedi Lord Period how they just said "nope, were not doing this shit all over again, taken over a planet now," and then they skull fucked the sith after a few generations so totally that the jedi order was jaut a shell of its former self the following millenia
I wish we could get love action shows like this. Where jedi just absolutely crushed it.
Most jedi of this era also became force ghosts upon death something that had to be rediscovered by Qui and Yoda. They also used insane abilities that most modern jedi would consider impossible. These Jedi were the best of all time. Really goes well with George's original tale of the modern jedi were corrupted and failed anakin.
I remember reading the novelization of Episode 2 of Star Wars, where Palpatine acknowledges that current day Jedi are a pale shadow compared to the past. If he had tried his stunt in ancient times, he would likely have been busted almost immediately.
The Clone Wars Era Jedi got complacent in their power and failed to consider that if the Jedi of the past could adapt and change, then the Sith of the present and future could as well. It was their arrogance and their own power and mindset that cost them the war.
I love hearing about this kind of stuff.
Even these Jedi got complacent and over confident. Which is visible when Darth Malgus attacked the Jedi Temple of Coruscant, and he, and a few dozen Sith wiped out almost the entire population within the temple. Including one of the greatest Jedi duelists of his time, Master Ven Zallow. But those Jedi learnt a hard lesson, and quickly got their act together. (for the most part)
I think the structure of the order was holding them back. When Luke was learning as much about the Force as he could. He didn't have the Jedi archives, thanks to Sidious hiding or destroying them. So he studied the Force in as many cultures and religions as possible. Unbiased and open to learning, eventually becoming God tier during the Vong invasion.
JEDIIIIIIIII!!!!! The force smiles on us.
I would love to see a movie of this Era
Disney needs to hire this channel for the next movie series
If the Jedi had maintained this mindset. It would have changed the course of Star Wars history. Anakin may have still slipped to the dark side. Or he simply could have been forced out of the order. Due to his love for Padme, and their babies. But that little change could have averted so many events.
Much appreciated that you acknowledged this as Legends. I really don’t want Disney to ruin the greatest era of SW
They should have not only kept it, they should have further explored insights and behaviors in how to safely explore the Force while remaining in the light. Fewer Jedi may have fallen, fewer would be blinded by the Dark Side and its powers and more would be capable in the long term of holding to the light.
Would love to see Satele’s Jedi Order go up against Yoda’s. Wouldn’t even be a contest.
Yoda and mace's back would broke carrying the whole order
The pre Disney Star Wars comics were amazing, I loved Dawn if the Jedi and the tales of the Jedi comics, not read any novels yet or played the games
The samurai trooper Jedi looks badass
Somehow, Satele would have made a wonderful Sith in her quest for power, which could also explain why she got along well with Darth Marr to a certain degree.
Is that the Correlian Defender corvette at 1:24?
Hey Stupendous Wave.
Hey apple!
This is the SW we need
Satele shan mostrou como um verdadeiro jedi pode ser poderoso sem dogmas mais sim a força viva.
I'll be blunt, had Satele Shan of lived during the Clone Wars era or was in some way resurrected, she'd smack Anakin, off Palpatine and then "humble" the Jedi Masters about how stupid they were being.
Except.. She wouldn't. Maybe smack Anakin. But she would not have known of Palpatines' true identity either. Sith sorcery hid his true face. And no one would've known the truth, until it was too late.
Satele got her ass almost beaten by malgus and you expect she could smack someone like valkorion on steroid?
they def need to bring her story to the big screen
Mad to think lightsabers and all that were kicking about just 650 years after Busted arrived in the year 3000
Do a video on tulak hoard
They definitely should have maintained that level of training and openness to ALL aspects of the Force.
Satele is one of those REAL strong female characters without it being the only thing going on with them. Good writing.
You forgot to mention the one Jedi that helped Satele succeed - the Hero of Tython (canon Jedi Knight ending). 😂
I loved ToR. Jedi shadows ftw
Yes they should have maintained it. I would’ve liked to know who would’ve won a fight, Darth Revan, or Revan or his descendant
Revan and Bastila would be very proud of her
I do wonder how things wouldve been different if the High Republic era of Jedi kept the same values
I believe the jedi should have kept this mindset going forward all the way to the Era of the clone wars
I guess they became complacent because they believed the Sith had gone extinct for about a thousand years.
Anakin would’ve fit in perfectly during this era . Hopefully they’ll be done with the Imperial era soon and we could finally see the true power of force wielders on screen or in animation. I kinda want them to scrap everything and start over and makes some of the legends content like Luke’s order canon.
Hey dude I would love a n depth video on just tu lak hoard I think he's the most dangerous sith ever
it was neccesary at the time but good that they changed back afterwards. IN times of peace they are keepers of peace, in times of war they are soldiers
Overwhelming force is how you defeat the enemy. War is not meant to be fair. Winning means the survival of you and who you protected. Grandmaster Satele’s Jedi understood this. This is why the military train so hard and spend so much money to prepare for war. You don’t want an even fight because you might lose you need overwhelming force to protect those who can’t protect themselves. The Jedi should have remained that powerful.
Do a explanation on hero of tython
it seems right that when even Yoda believed Satele Shan was stronger in the Force than he was that , I consider her the strongest Grandmaster who created the strongest jedi. No dogma eliminates the arrogance many Grandmasters had including Yoda. Later eras the jedi were not forged in battle and became complacent. That is why it fell and never was able to arise again.
This needs to be in book form.
If the Jedi kept up with this mind set the order would of never fallen
Revan really was the chosen one of the Old Republic
He destroyed the Sith in his age and his generations continued his path
He ended the threat of the mandalorians (who were secretly backed by the till then unknown sith empire).
He would go and find this threat only to be imprisoned for nearly 400 years by vitiate. He was killed by a fuggin random player group. I don’t dive into the ghost of revan shit that followed a few years later but vitiate was just badass.
I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if Anakin was a Jedi in this era. Fall to the darkside in this time yes but rehabilitated he would be and in so doing reaching the full might of the chosen one. Anakin would be sharper on the battlefield at peace in mind as he would learn to fight with everything he had while still holding true to his heart he would give his fear over to the fire and let it burn
If anakin would be a jedi in this Era I'm sure he would marry satele. I don't believe that anakin would turn to the darkside. I believe that satele would understand anakin. If she were to have children with anakin, they would have overpowered children. Maybe anakin would end up grand Master and He would have changed the way the Jedi thought.
Anakin would probably just take the Hero of Tython's place, tbh. Dark Side Jedi Knight has a lot of strong parallels to Anakin.
@@johnledesma9996 if for nothing else satele is a baddie (had to get that off my chest) but I think he would. I come from the thought of in order to reach the full might of the chosen one he has to experience both sides of the force first hand and that would give him the full understanding of the force that Luke would get towards the end of his life. For me it’s like in canon he was a Jedi but then fell to the darkside, died and became a force ghost and then in Asoka when we see him use the light side and then call upon his powers in the darkside (flashing Vader) I could see him being grandmaster and it’d be beautiful if he changed the Jedi’s ideology
@raiderax8532 Yeah, She is, I just thought that if anakin married satele that luke would probably be more powerful. I wasn't sure if it's kind of like dragon ball z where half saiyans are more powerful and maybe anakin and padme produced stronger jedi or if anakin and satele would have produced stronger jedi since that would combine satele and anakins mediclorians. It was just a thought I had that I wanted to ask. Thanks for answering.
@@johnledesma9996 it’s very much possible Luke would be strong like WAAAAY stronger but in the end it all comes down to the mediclorians you get and what you can do with it anakin and satele making Luke could end up in a force God type shit and would easily stomp abeloth no timberland 😤
Satele most likely would've sniffed out Palpatine and Qui Gon would most likely still be alive. My question would be how she would handle the legitimate grievances of the CIS? Alternatively she could've also seen what Dooku saw that caused him to lose faith in the Jedi and worked to correct it.
So what happened to Tython between when the ancient Jedi left it to it's rediscovery by Satele? When it was left there were catastrophic storms and other natural disasters if the Force wasn't in perfect balance on the planet. But when Satele and the other Jedi recolonized it, it was almost full Light Side focused by them and nothing bad happened.
They are a generation, that has been hardened and refined thr5ough the fire and crucible of the great galactic war. So no surprised that they were already a deadly and veritable fighting force, capable of taking on the sith. Satale's reforms merely enhanced and burnished their fighting prowess and abilities in the force to near unhear of levels that they would have ultimately beaten the sith once the great galactic war resumed if the eternal empire hadn't intervened before they could.
It was a fine strategy for what was in a sense a period of prolonged and open warfare, that the jedi wouldn't see again until the new sith wars and formation of the army of light, that it is no surprise that in peace time, the jedi reverted to a different and more fitting philosophy for that era.
Could you do a comparison video between Lukes and Satilles order/grandmaster capabilities ?
The Jedi’s power is centrifugal & the Sith’s centripetal
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
I hope we see her in Canon my friends
Yes they should’ve always maintained this level of power and ability in the force
Imagine we got a Satele Shan and Darth Malgus series instead of Acolyte
You would think that not living on corruscant would have something to do with it especially the sith shrine underneath their temple
The funny thing about this is that Revan was right, the light side jedi that embraced the force to its fullest really were stronger than the sith.
I kinda have a theory. What if Anakin wasn’t the only person made or “influenced” to be the strongest. Anakin was made to balance the Force, both sides of it. But what if the Dark Side made or influenced another being before him? Darth Sidious was so powerful that he even came close to the Son. Who embodied the Dark Side. There’s more things like even Sidious himself wondered if anyone before him was stronger than him.
it was why Revan went to war in the first place with the jedi, because they forgot how to be warriors and were open to have the sith mow them down.
I'd say, imo, Luke's Jedi order was better, with Satele's being at number 2. Because I feel like Luke did a better job at preparing his Jedi for the dangers of the Dark Side than Satele did. Especially after how bad she handled the war with Zakuul.
Lol like how Luke handled and failed to stop his nephew both in Canon and in Legends lol,At least she was properly voted to be Grand Master of the order and went through the proper training for it from Jedi masters who actually cared to teach her things she needed to know where Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda failed to teach Luke,Shit they barely tought him anything about any other force abilities or proper lightsaber training so yeah want me to keep going on how she was better then Luke and how her Jedi order outlived his?
Qui-Gon and satele leading the Jedi would have made them unstoppable, since Satele lead these Jedi to fully opening to the force while making sure they remained hardened warriors, quigon would have helped keep that balance making sure the Jedi didn’t lose that strong spiritual connection to the Force
Violent space hippies .
i believe they should have kept the teachings of satele and her way of teaching because generations of evoling under her teachings could have prepared the jedi for order 66 and they would have seen it sooner
It is the way of all things to rise or fall to the stresses of their times.
The jedi of this time rose to fight the very real possibility of extermination.
They were eventually SO successful that they created the conditions that led largely to a peaceful period of nearly a thousand years and grew softer to those times.
Despite the very real machinations of the Sith during this period, that is still a stunning accomplishment worthy of the ages that they kept the pendulum from swinging back for that long. But, swing back it must, eventually.
Give them credit where due. It took historically clever, and convoluted planning to bring the Order down once again. And in the end, all that did was serve to rebalance the Force.
She was stronger than Yoda and blocked a lightsaber with her hand topping Yoda's stop of lighting and Yoda's push on sidous as impressive as it was, SHE BLASTED MALGUS THROUGH A FREAKING MOUNTAIN
The jedi should have definitely stayed in the Era of strength you never know when you will need it..
I wish the Skywalker bloodline and Asoka and star killer and Reven’s bloodline would all survive and merge
Old republic Jedi were the best Jedi of all time in the whole star wars mythos 🔥🔥🔥🔥
because they actually listened to the force and not the republic.