Thank you all, for explaining the complexities of culture, language and identity in Belgium. Thank heavens for us monophones in the U.K. that many Belgians speak very good English, as do the Dutch and most Europeans.
Joost van den Vondel might be considered the Dutch Shakespeare. He was a Flemish playwright from the early 17th century who moved to the Netherlands, but it is ludicrous to suggest that he is the standard for the present-day Flemish language. In fact, the language has evolved so considerably since then that most people would have difficulty reading him nowadays. Literary value he has, but his Flemish is in no way comparable to what these ‘Tussentaal’ youths speak these days. What is described in this film is technically called ‘code switching’. It think it was Gumperz, the sociolinguist, who introduced the term. It means that people use different form of ‘diglossia’ depending upon whom they are talking to and the specific circumstances of the conversation. This includes the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation of the way they speak. For instance, I am capable of speaking standard ‘General Dutch’ (albeit with a Belgian accent) when required, but I never do, since it is never required. I also perfectly understand my local dialect from the Flemish Ardennes, but never speak it. Likewise, when I was living in Southern Germany, I gradually shifted from speaking Hochdeutsch to Bavarian. I have now been living in Northern England for some years, and, whereas I used to speak standard British English (‘Received Pronunciation’ or RP for short), I find myself increasingly speaking Yorkshire, as my impression was that RP is considered too posh and upper-class round here. Aye, lass, ’tis perfectly normal to speak t’ lingo o’ t’ place where thou liv’st, that mooch I can tell thee...
This is so interesting, I wish I could speak a bunch of different languages like these folks!! Their English sounds more like how it's spoken in the US than in the UK - especially the young girl in the black shirt. I thought she was American at first! Why is that? I'd love to go to Belgium one day, seems like a great country. My dad's family is originally from Flanders, but they came to the US many generations back (19th century) and the ability to speak Flemish wasn't passed down, unfortunately. We have regional accents here, but they aren't intricately nuanced the way European dialects are.
Belgium is a very special country. Flanders and Wallonia aren't very happy with each other, but it goes his way... But we have still great beer, French Fries (They are Belgian), Chocolate, Waffles,...
Hey, I hope you don't mind me still responding to your comment such a long time after you posted it. About the US accent, I think it's because of the media (It's my personal opinion but I don't think I'm that wrong). A lot of our music is international music, with a lot of American artists (Lady gaga, Beyonce, Eminem,...). Also in a lot of countries they dub a lot of foreign TV programs, but in Flanders we don't, except for children programs, we usually subtitle everything. On our TV we have a lot of English spoken TV series and movies, but most of them are American, so we hear a lot of English, but often with an American accent. For example The simpsons, Friends, That 70's show,... or a lot of American movies. Of course there is British stuff on the TV but I think the amount of American stuff is a lot bigger. SO I think that's why our accents might tend to sound more American. (Even if the Britain is geographicaly closer)
No, thanks for answering! That makes sense, really interesting. I never would've guessed that American movies/music/etc. gets any kind of exposure over there. Your TV networks have the right idea - dubbed audio sucks!
Scapervelo Politically flanders and wallonia don't like each other. Mostly because of propaganda and bullshit story's. But when it comes to real life we love each other. If you're Belgian and you think otherwise then you just need to go to Wallonia more, to get to know it better. And watch less t.v. I'm flemish, but more than that i am Belgian. And nobody is going to take my beautiful wallonia away from me!
I did go to Belgium, from the USA, at the age of 44 to visit relatives that I had never met earlier than 1 year before the trip. It was a great time and we were treated extremely well. We saw a lot of sites and learned about Flemish culture. There seems to be a number of dialects just in Flanders that are quite different from each other. Flemish/Dutch is not that hard of a language for an English speaker to learn although there are some sounds that English speakers don't make.
I am American living in Flanders. One of the most surprising things about Flanders is the number of dialects in a small geographic area. I wonder if it is because of a history of each town being insular.
Do you speak any other language other than english? How many people there speak english, would it be hard for someone who only speaks english and some french to live there?
I'm from the Netherlands, and I find it a shame that they try to abolish ge/gij in the flemish language. It's totally correct language, and I think you don't have to prevent to speak these words. Just use them! Even in the Netherlands, ge/gij is still used in the provinces Zuid-Gelderland, Noord-Braband en Limburg.
What??? Did she say 'Vondel at the beginning of this century' ?? I wonder who she does mean. Also, we dropped the B from ABN (algemeen beschaafd Nederlands meaning general civilised dutch) which is not the same as standard flemish.
It's wrong to say "Belgian" indicating that word as a language. Belgium has 3 national languages so to say "Belgian" and to mean Flemish by that is wrong. It's either Dutch or Flemish but most Belgian Dutch speakers are more often using the word Flemish to differentiate themselves from the Dutch speakers from the Netherlands. Basically Dutch and Flemish is the same language but pronounced differently. Often Flemish, to foreign ears, will sound smoother and less guteral. The typical g and r sound that would often distinguish a Netherlands Dutch speaker are not present in flemish.
Great question, Pav! These videos were made to accompany a course on Sociolinguistics of Belgium taught at Stony Brook University in 2010 and 2013. More information about it can be found on my website: life and language in belgium | poppyslocum
Well done Poppy. I have stumbled on your project by chance. The subject matter is extraordinarily fascinating and it will potentially keep you busy for the rest of your life. Truly, Belgium and indeed Brussels is a 'melting pot' of multiculturalism. More questions than answers! Good luck with the studies. I shall follow any new videos with interest. Paul
ABN comes from our King Willem I. He made Nederlands the official language in the South Netherlands and made schools in Flanders. After the Belgian independance there where no more schools in Flanders. Addition: Luik was not part of the Netherlands. There is no reason the speak french.
There is no standard Flemish, the standard language in Belgium is Nederlands or, as we call it, Dutch. Tussentaal is not standardized and varies regionally with influences on standard Dutch from local dialects.
Flemish isn't a language any more than American is a language or Canadian. In the U.S.A there are different pronunciations and word meanings occasionally vary (pissed, fanny, lift, loo, pants, boot etc.) but that doesn't make it another language. In fact Dutch in Belgium and Dutch in the Netherlands are standardized according to a single standard. And it's incorrect that Dutch or Nederlands was invented by Vondel.
Thank you all, for explaining the complexities of culture, language and identity in Belgium. Thank heavens for us monophones in the U.K. that many Belgians speak very good English, as do the Dutch and most Europeans.
Very interesting - thanks for putting this up.
Very enlightening, thank you for this video.
Joost van den Vondel might be considered the Dutch Shakespeare. He was a Flemish playwright from the early 17th century who moved to the Netherlands, but it is ludicrous to suggest that he is the standard for the present-day Flemish language. In fact, the language has evolved so considerably since then that most people would have difficulty reading him nowadays. Literary value he has, but his Flemish is in no way comparable to what these ‘Tussentaal’ youths speak these days.
What is described in this film is technically called ‘code switching’. It think it was Gumperz, the sociolinguist, who introduced the term. It means that people use different form of ‘diglossia’ depending upon whom they are talking to and the specific circumstances of the conversation. This includes the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation of the way they speak. For instance, I am capable of speaking standard ‘General Dutch’ (albeit with a Belgian accent) when required, but I never do, since it is never required. I also perfectly understand my local dialect from the Flemish Ardennes, but never speak it. Likewise, when I was living in Southern Germany, I gradually shifted from speaking Hochdeutsch to Bavarian. I have now been living in Northern England for some years, and, whereas I used to speak standard British English (‘Received Pronunciation’ or RP for short), I find myself increasingly speaking Yorkshire, as my impression was that RP is considered too posh and upper-class round here. Aye, lass, ’tis perfectly normal to speak t’ lingo o’ t’ place where thou liv’st, that mooch I can tell thee...
This is so interesting, I wish I could speak a bunch of different languages like these folks!! Their English sounds more like how it's spoken in the US than in the UK - especially the young girl in the black shirt. I thought she was American at first! Why is that? I'd love to go to Belgium one day, seems like a great country. My dad's family is originally from Flanders, but they came to the US many generations back (19th century) and the ability to speak Flemish wasn't passed down, unfortunately. We have regional accents here, but they aren't intricately nuanced the way European dialects are.
Belgium is a very special country. Flanders and Wallonia aren't very happy with each other, but it goes his way... But we have still great beer, French Fries (They are Belgian), Chocolate, Waffles,...
Hey, I hope you don't mind me still responding to your comment such a long time after you posted it.
About the US accent, I think it's because of the media (It's my personal opinion but I don't think I'm that wrong). A lot of our music is international music, with a lot of American artists (Lady gaga, Beyonce, Eminem,...). Also in a lot of countries they dub a lot of foreign TV programs, but in Flanders we don't, except for children programs, we usually subtitle everything. On our TV we have a lot of English spoken TV series and movies, but most of them are American, so we hear a lot of English, but often with an American accent. For example The simpsons, Friends, That 70's show,... or a lot of American movies. Of course there is British stuff on the TV but I think the amount of American stuff is a lot bigger. SO I think that's why our accents might tend to sound more American. (Even if the Britain is geographicaly closer)
No, thanks for answering! That makes sense, really interesting. I never would've guessed that American movies/music/etc. gets any kind of exposure over there. Your TV networks have the right idea - dubbed audio sucks!
Scapervelo Politically flanders and wallonia don't like each other. Mostly because of propaganda and bullshit story's. But when it comes to real life we love each other. If you're Belgian and you think otherwise then you just need to go to Wallonia more, to get to know it better. And watch less t.v.
I'm flemish, but more than that i am Belgian. And nobody is going to take my beautiful wallonia away from me!
I did go to Belgium, from the USA, at the age of 44 to visit relatives that I had never met earlier than 1 year before the trip. It was a great time and we were treated extremely well. We saw a lot of sites and learned about Flemish culture. There seems to be a number of dialects just in Flanders that are quite different from each other. Flemish/Dutch is not that hard of a language for an English speaker to learn although there are some sounds that English speakers don't make.
I am American living in Flanders. One of the most surprising things about Flanders is the number of dialects in a small geographic area.
I wonder if it is because of a history of each town being insular.
Do you speak any other language other than english? How many people there speak english, would it be hard for someone who only speaks english and some french to live there?
I'm from the Netherlands, and I find it a shame that they try to abolish ge/gij in the flemish language. It's totally correct language, and I think you don't have to prevent to speak these words. Just use them! Even in the Netherlands, ge/gij is still used in the provinces Zuid-Gelderland, Noord-Braband en Limburg.
What??? Did she say 'Vondel at the beginning of this century' ?? I wonder who she does mean.
Also, we dropped the B from ABN (algemeen beschaafd Nederlands meaning general civilised dutch) which is not the same as standard flemish.
It's wrong to say "Belgian" indicating that word as a language. Belgium has 3 national languages so to say "Belgian" and to mean Flemish by that is wrong. It's either Dutch or Flemish but most Belgian Dutch speakers are more often using the word Flemish to differentiate themselves from the Dutch speakers from the Netherlands. Basically Dutch and Flemish is the same language but pronounced differently. Often Flemish, to foreign ears, will sound smoother and less guteral. The typical g and r sound that would often distinguish a Netherlands Dutch speaker are not present in flemish.
Hi Fly Beep, as is mentioned in the video description, the title is a play on a PBS documentary called "Do you speak American?"
The difference between dutch and flemish is to be compared like english and american
Great question, Pav! These videos were made to accompany a course on Sociolinguistics of Belgium taught at Stony Brook University in 2010 and 2013. More information about it can be found on my website: life and language in belgium | poppyslocum
Well done Poppy. I have stumbled on your project by chance. The subject matter is extraordinarily fascinating and it will potentially keep you busy for the rest of your life. Truly, Belgium and indeed Brussels is a 'melting pot' of multiculturalism. More questions than answers! Good luck with the studies. I shall follow any new videos with interest. Paul
Good video
Is rhubarb the best or is cabbage the best?
ABN comes from our King Willem I. He made Nederlands the official language in the South Netherlands and made schools in Flanders. After the Belgian independance there where no more schools in Flanders.
Addition: Luik was not part of the Netherlands. There is no reason the speak french.
However you must not forget that Willem I grew up in Brussels and spokes french
en luik was bij de 17 provincien... en de eerste hollandse adel kwam van vlaanderen
i speak belgian
i am belgian :3
Ik ook hoeist meutje
I am so sorry for you, mate :) Nah.. just making fun.
Greetings from your neighbours to the north - you know we love you.
Belgian isn't a language, it's flemisch or Vlaams
As Serge Roos seems to understand, but some commenters do not, the title is a joke; a play on a PBS documentary called "Do you speak American?"
very interesting indeed, the girl from Asse makes a lot of sense :)
There is no standard Flemish, the standard language in Belgium is Nederlands or, as we call it, Dutch. Tussentaal is not standardized and varies regionally with influences on standard Dutch from local dialects.
Waarom maken jullie deze video's eigenlijk?
serieus stopt me kloten en gaat bij a moeër wienen
poppyslocum. All wrong. There is no Belgian language. It is either French or Flemish. (which they tried to turn into ABN Dutch, itself a dialect).
Dutch*
Very dirty. We call it plat.
hah xD
Beschaafd = civilized
Da
Flemish isn't a language any more than American is a language or Canadian. In the U.S.A there are different pronunciations and word meanings occasionally vary (pissed, fanny, lift, loo, pants, boot etc.) but that doesn't make it another language. In fact Dutch in Belgium and Dutch in the Netherlands are standardized according to a single standard. And it's incorrect that Dutch or Nederlands was invented by Vondel.
Good video