The Online Future Of Fighting Games - Overcoming Bad Netcode
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- As a genre, fighting games, in general, emphasize fast inputs in conjunction with the ability to read and react to your opponents on the fly.
Given the variance in network quality from user to user, online play has traditionally been an issue with many preferring to practice and compete against others in-person.
However, with the world on lockdown, the fighting game scene has been forced to find alternative solutions, one of which being Parsec, a remote access tool that allows users to connect and play with others online.
Just how has Parsec been put to use during these restrictive times and how has it helped keep various fighting game communities alive?
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Which esports scenes do you feel have adapted the best to the global lockdown restrictions? (Also this isn't a sponsored video, it was just an interesting topic we wanted to cover in a video)
FPS Games like Overwatch and R6 because there are almost no fighting games with good netcode to play even nationally, much less internationally.
SSBM with Slippi and LCS have managed to adapt well. We will have to see about Overwatch League. I heard teams are going to Hawaii
Definitely not Paladins. That scene just got the plug pulled on it by Hi-Rez
Marvel vs capcom 2
I think you should also cover the explosion in popularity of online Sim-racing last year due to most racing series' organizers need to do something for the fans to past the time during the pandemic before they could even held any actual race at all.
That moment when passionate melee players create their own netplay that’s better than Nintendo’s.
"Melee online has less lag than ultimate offline"
I still cant get over how embarrassing that statement has to be for Nintendo
Then Nintendo brings a cease and deasest (idk how to spell deasest sorry)
Shit it has better netplay then most fighting games honestly.
@@Mufnman64 you’re right dude
And then get punished for it
Parsec is a cool tool for the development of online FGC, however the fact that it requires an entire video stream means it may be an unviable option in countries with less developed internet infrastructure. I still very much prefer just having a good netcode instead.
I agree... where I live the best non-throttled, low firewalled ISP I can get is 10mbps download, and parsec requires 3 or 4 times that speed to stream.
My ISP gives me a stable ping but low speeds. If I chose an ISP with higher speeds (say 100Mbps), my ping becomes unstable. So I have to choose the best-worst connection. Games with good netcode I can play fine. I can play MOBAs, shooters, etc., but things like online SFV are just garbage.
So Parsec is definitely a good solution in areas where good connections are accesible, but still leave out a lot of players. I don't expect the any netcode to rival something like Parsec (unless its GGPO but good luck selling gppo to japanese developers). But a good netcode should at least be close enough to be enjoyable.
Yeah we just need the netcode part and render the video clientside to become a lot more universal. Why companies insist on having just a few shitty servers of their own I wont understand.
Parsec isn't about being better than having good netcode as part of a game's core, it is about giving an alternative to those games that have not said good netcode. Of course having good netcode from the start is the way to go.
@@technogalewell in their marketing it’s clear they were more going for games that are strictly local multiplayer but yeah
Its depressing that the FGC needs to go out of our way to find alternatives to have a good online experience, rather than the developers actually taking responsibility and giving us an online experience on par with the rest of the gaming industry.
better than nothing
@@captainmalice Sure, but I think most would much rather these developers get their shit together instead.
@@codedrip6057 i agree, but why would they. Instead of forcing them to, they create solutions. Nice, but now the companies don't even need to try because of that. I feel in general that the fcg is controlled too much by them capitalists, the redicolus dlc being an example.
I wouldn't say the rest of the game industry is doing any better, look at fps servers for example.
@@martmine4618 yes but at least there are some games from other genres that aren't like that (fortnight, tf2, overwatch...) I want to get into fighting games but i haven't found a single non dlc filled game in this entire gen (and older games are harder, have less guids, no online to play since i have no friends and everyone who still playes them is a veteran). Its just sad, i prefer to spend money on other games than on this amount of dlc
:(
Parsec is going to keep Online events alive for years to come.
Till Nintendo finds out ppl use it to experience joy
@@Sonderasf yeah joi sucks
@@Sonderasf parsec is pc only, nobody uses parsec for smash bros melee because slippi's netcode is miles better than parsec and nintendo doesn't own any other game that uses parsec for tournaments.
@@Deyne547 ultimate could be played on parsec
@Korero Korero the exact same thing they get in return the creators of slippi
“How dare you fix our game that we were too lazy to fix! You must be punished”
That part isnt actually true. I hate to defend capcom but they changed their netcode. They didn't fix it entirely but they are trying to improve.
Yeah, the pc fix also made cross platform almost unplayable making the pc player play without lag and the console player having a lot of lag. Capcom baning the mod was a way to not separate the community
At least Capcom is doing something. Nintendo had 3 console generations to fix their servers for Smash.
it must be great at ASW: just hire the guys that fixed your netcode and now we will have rollback with Strive (hopefully good)
Developers aren't "lazy". You try fixing Street Fighter's netcode for free. If Capcom cared, they would invest in it and that's that. There's no laziness involved and it's just insulting to call developers lazy when games are already tremendously costly.
Crazy finding out that Nick is married with kids.
he’s allowed to marry who he wants
That poongko moment where his opponent took off his shirt is so strange to people without context I’m sure lol
FYI Fighting EX layer was the first fighting game in the pandemic to COMPLETELY redo their netcode from delay based to rollback netcode. They ALSO are doing another update soon to further improve the netcode! Arika is a immensely small company and deserve much more praise.
Shame the game has been completely forgotten and it’s one of the nichest out there.
Parsec is a temporary fix for games with bad netcode. Rollback is the future and needs to be mandatory in every new FG to come out. GG+R's showing at Frosty Fausting did a great job of showcasing what good netcode can do for your game.
asbr 😢
Love how you talk about topical stuff the FGC actually cares about and break them down in a way non players can understand. Hope you keep making quality videos like this.
Akshon: DBFZ isn't viable online
Team Sp00ky: Hold my dramatic finish
I mean, Spooky does it for the east coast only, which is (a little) less convoluted than the west coast.
He can run a GBFVS tournament just fine, but if you go and check WNF, it's a nightmare.
@@danaltamirano2546 That's because west coast internet is utter crap and even top tier rollback games like KI or TFH are a pain to play coast to coast. If you have Spectrum or Xfinity in New York you'll have stable 2-4f connections to East Canada's Bell or Mexico's Infinitum but fluctuating 6f+ with west coast's Frontier or Comcast.
If you watch DBFZ NLBC every week you'll see lag spikes, time-outs due to even larger lag spikes and whole match resets from de-syncs. Doesn't happen every week but it still happens maybe every other week. And when it does happen it nearly always happens more than once per event.
By the way, a few mistakes in the video, Parsec is not on iOS at the moment, and Parsec doesn't provide cloud machines either (it did in the past but now you're meant to rent it directly from a provider and use Parsec with it).
This seems exactly like what Stadia tried but failed to do.
It should be mentioned that tekken’s season 4 fix, while definitely an improvement from what I’ve heard, is still lackluster compared to other games. So kind of a similar situation to sfv, just minus the controversy of a fan mod being better. Fantastic video though, hopefully all the netcode crusades of the past few years (particularly this last year) can show devs the importance of good netplay!
*Cryies in latin american internet*
same
Meanwhile at Capcom like: “yea how are we gonna sue Parsec?”
Uhhh, you mean Nintendo
@@kirbyc9042 Nintendo to legal department "What do you mean we can't send parsec a cease and desist? Really? Fine, send it to those project peppy folk. Not them either? Fine, just nuke the big house instead."
Capcom promote a parsec event what are you talking about
i feel like this might be the future going forward in the fgc even when in person events are back. They could use online as means of qualifying into main in person events reaching out to unknown places where there may be good players with little to no in person events forcing them to travel just to get noticed
I love Parsec but this video is seriously overselling it. With Parsec you don't only need to wait for your inputs to arrive, but also for the video stream to get back to you. Because of this, everyone who isn't the host gets their lag doubled. In a very best case scenario, you might have an experience that's the same as regular delay based netcode. Parsec is great for playing local multiplayer games online, but by the nature of how it works it can never be better than run of the mill delay based netcode, which is already horrendously outdated.
thank you. i feel like im going insane with everyone promoting parsec for fighting games. it feels awful. usually looks bad in order to have a better connection too.
I think you missed the explanation. The way Parsec is being used was by hosting it on a virtual machine. So he gave the example of having a virtual machine using parsec in the mid west area which means east and west players would connect to that machine and play. So basically the host is a virtual machine so that no one gets the latency advantage.
@@thec0r379 The graphic in the video is wrong. Because Parsec sends a stream to the players, your actual lag is determined by the round trip time, not the latency. In reality Parsec has 2x the lag that it's shown to have here.
@@Luuklin so someone can have better ping to server therefore having the better experience as its getting to them faster. Understandable. I just assumed it was better under virtual host then someone hosting from their actual PC.
fightcade: "am I a joke to you"
Ooh is fightcade on consoles?
@@janematthews9087 nah but it runs on pc, mac and linux
AKA third strike wonderland. Fun times.
heritage for the future gigachads: hey.
I think Parsec is great and important to the FGC but more importantly, it’s sad and humiliating that multi million dollar companies can’t get their netcode together.
If you can get away with it, WHY BOTHER TRYING?
Everyone should know that it's doesn't matter to them. As long as they're rich netcoding is nothing but a simple issue to ignore
Fighting games are niche remember? The only people getting rich out of them is NRS.
Hype, another Akshon vid!
also first lol, not that anyone cares
Swear I never had a sleepover as a kid. Coming from some old fashioned Mexican parents, they would of most likely responded with “QUE SLEEPOVER NI QUE TU MADRE”
😅💀🙄
translation: no
I'm reminded of Iron Man:
Capcom Execs: A passionate team of amateur fans built this netcode IN A CAVE!
Capcom Devs: But...we aren't a passionate team of fans...
With a box of scraps!
Great video! Last year, Max Dood also run a UMvC3 Twitch Rivals using Parsec and it looked great. Honestly, it's kinda sad to have to resort to these kinds of solutions due to poor developers support, but it's great that they exist. And maybe thing will be better from now on, ArcSys did update GG+R's netcode to change it to rollback, so hopefully this won't be a one time thing. I've been meaning to try Parsec out but haven't got around to yet, but just knowing this resource exists and it's helping keep other fgc communities alive is already great news.
Man I JUST LOVED the intro, such a throwback. Keep it up Gerald!
god that whole melee community vs nintendo was so insane.
At this rate it feels like quarantine will never end
This is going to be the make or break year for the pandemic. If vaccine works perfectly, everybody's back in biz. But if it doesn't (which is more likely), we'll have to wait 2 years at most
it won’t with that attitude
@JulianRock I already live on an island that wasn't affected by COVID. The only good thing that happened here in a while.
I tried this with a friend a couple of years ago playing the Arcade version of Persona 4 Arena Ultimax emulated on my friend's PC which acted as a host and it run perfectly
I used to play Cuphead with a friend of mine through Parsec. He eventually deleted Pasec because we he stopped using it. We decided recently to play Cuphead again but this time through steam’s new net play feature which basically does the same thing. When he tried to connect to mine according to him he got a lot of lag. When I connected to him I got less lag but it was pretty blurry. I know I can’t be imagining it when I say that Parsec is definitely a really great service. When we played Cuphead on Parsec he basically never complained about how laggy it was.
It sucks that most developers just won't fix there own game for players to have a better experience, and having the players themselves find solutions just to have a better experience, not to say even blocking these solutions while not fixing it.
Man, I'm surprised they didn't mention Smash Ultimate's Online. For better or for worse...
Well to be on both sides..as Sakurai said. He just wanted to make a party game..but it somehow turned into a competitive fighting game. So how would you make a better netcode or rollback to make it better without ruining the casual play? Even though I do agree nintendo's online should be better. Though I do play Ultimate way more then Melee.
@@GalaxiaKnightX how would having better netcode ruin the casual experience
@@happyburgerman9724 Honestly I don't know much about netcodes and rollback. I just play the game for fun whether online or offline
Sadly there is so much a NetCode can do, when 60% of the FGC(world wide) uses Wi-Fi(according to a Bandai's study revealed by Harada himself).
Probably going to get downvoted af, by all the Wifi-warriors. But sadly facts can't be changed, but you can change and get a wired connection and make the world a better place for us all!
Been hearing about Parsec for a little bit now. Think I'm going to give it a try at this point. Great vid
Speaking of Parsec & Marvel 3, Maximilian Dood ended up hosting a Marvel 3 tournament on his Twitch channel through Parsec & it ended up going pretty well. As for how many people saw it live on his channel, it managed to reach more than 30,000 live viewers.
I am currently hosting Parsec Tournaments every week on my channel and it has been a success with the people joining so far. It's an absolute blast to just host any game as a tournament that supports local multiplayer that's not just fighting games to make it unique. I believe this is the most convenient program to use when hosting tournaments for multiple different games.
As good as parsec is, rollback netcode is the future and much better than parsec. Ask any true rollback game players like KI, Skullgirls, Them's Fighting Herds, +R or melee with slippi if they'd rather play on parsec than rollback netcode. And, melee did not build their netcode from the ground up. They're using rollback netcode which was invented by the Cannons who are still prominent FGC figureheads to this day. Parsec is a bandaid solution to what should have been the norm nearly 8 years ago.
Hopefully we more companies try to provide better online support like you said. In addition to the tittles you mentioned, Project L from Riot Games has high expectations.
Don’t forget KOF 2K2UM, Garou, Samsho V Special, KOF’97, Last Blade II.
Good job what a great esports channel. You guys cover so many important esports topics.
parsec teaming up with discord... sounds like a dream
Until some big corporation buys Discord and it becomes part of the botnet and have to pay more for these features.
I like this video. There's no reason to not put split screen is as an option playing coop modes with a homie is one of the best ways to learn communication an social skills no cap, lol.
Do one on the nulldc bear mode too, they deserve much more recognition
This feels like one big parsec ad
Nintendo doesn't care about you, yet you buy everything they sell. You know who you are.
Ya
Who would you say "cares" about its customers? Publishers sell things, you choose whether to take them or not.
@@fernandobanda5734 isso tem cara de ingles de brasileiro... Nintendo could ride the free PR wave by supporting their community, yet they choose to live in the 20th century.
I will not play in a tournament unless it's offline. It would legitimately have to be 1f or less lag , or rollback netcode. Very happy the option is there, specially for bad netcode games.
With platform Fighters having the minor stuttering of characters is a huge improvement over the dropped frames.
Great video, might need to try out Parsec to play Wizard of Legend with a friend
I remember seeing some tweets about Parsec a while back. Might have to look into it now.
FighterZ with Parsec is the best thing I discovered this year, I can't feel any type of lag, it's just like the opponent is next to you
FighterZ will never get Good Netcode lmaooooo
They are working on rollback if you haven’t noticed and they acknowledged rollback netcode as well
True
@TheMushroomXIII I think they said they Said they didn't know how to add rollback yet so maybe when they make dbfz2 they will add
@TheMushroomXIII which isn kinda bullshit. They not only retroactively added it to Ggxxac+R (best netcode ever btw) but are also using it on STRIVE (same animation style, so no excuse there). A generic version of it is what makes fightcade as a whole run, and zero of those game were meant to have any netplay at all. They probably don’t think it’s financially interesting to do it, rather than bein actually unable to do it.
@@PSNMyfoot Strive is being made with Rollback in mind, and +R is such an old game that the rollback devs can kind-of brute force the rollback into working since PC's these days are more powerful, and even then, they were working on the implementation for like 6+ months. Doing this with modern games is way harder and more time consuming since you have to serialize everything. It took a whole team of developers a little over a year to implement rollback into MKX for example.
I can see why Bandai would see that as not a worthwhile investment. It would be way better for the players, but they would probably just make more money making adding another DLC character that everyone will buy regardless and make way more money. It's sad but that's what the situation is.
Honestly after using Parsec for a couple months, I can say, fuck yeah. Its amazing to have couch co-op online. Its honestly surprising how well it works.
It’s depressing that fighting game net code is even this bad in the first place
Its even more sad that we have had a legitimate solution since like 2009 (GGPO, which is free to use, only cost is implementation). But unfortunately most Fighting games are made in Japan, Japan notorious for being ignorant to advances made in the west in terms of gaming at the downfall of its players.
legit most western developed games(even fucking indie games like skullgirls and TFH) have working basically perfect netplay due to GGPO roll back, and fan communities as well as another major company(NRS) proved that implementation of GGPO in older games is possible(albeit a pain in the ass) and most definitely worthwhile, NRS did it for mortal combat X, and Meltyblood EFZ, Melee, BBCF all had community made mods or clients to run GGPO for the games.
arcsys even implementing a community built version of Rollback into an older GG game (which is fucking great, good work arc sys) which made the sales of it spike, prooving to other JP devs that its worthwhile to do so. Im glad they are finally coming around, with Arcsys adding rollback to strive, and potentially adding it to older games like GBFV, BBCF (offically) and DBFZ, hopefully this gets other devs like Capcom, SNK and french bread to follow suit.
I understand that technically its a difficult process its not as easy as copy and pasting the GGPO code into your game, especially games built on pre-existing engines, but its proven to be possible and work so fucking well that its a shame it doesn't happen.
6:30 Mah-vel. Dude you sounded Australian there for a sec lol.
Mahvel baybee!
ITS MAHVEL BABY
You must be new
Aside from allowing better online play, I also believe Parsec, specifically its public lobbies, is a good way to get some people to try more obscure games. I haven't done it in a while, but I used to often host some games I liked that didn't have the biggest audience, allowing people to essentially try it out for free. This has worked on me, as I’ve gotten to try some games I either wasn't sure about or didn't know about at all.
I hope other people decide to do the same, I love seeing obscure/poverty fighters get some play.
1999: oh I see you’ve rediscovered dedicated servers.
This video was an ad for Parsec and I loved it.
Don't know about your sources but that capcom just removed the atimore netcode fix for sfv is not true. Yes, they removed the possibility of modding the netcode but also updated the netcode themselves. Patchnotes of said update: game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/systemfault/132951 While onlineplay is still not perfect capcom improved the online experience the patch removed the onesided rollback. They also updated the matchmaking game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/systemfault/132963 and did furhter netcode adjustments game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/systemfault/133085
Why do I feel like this is an ad with a video wrapped around it?
This video wasn't an advertisement or sponsored in anyway. We just like the technology and how it has helped esports communities.
@@Akshonmedia jeez, thanks for clearing that up, guys, for a moment I thought you were trying to get me to use something.
@@Marisu_Prada it would be illegal to get sponsored and not say it.
As an user of Parsec since Summer 2020 I have to say that this is truly the future !!!!
As someone who has been debating getting into a few games but been put off by lack of decent netcode (Granblue, UNICLR, etc), I'm suuuuper interested in seeing how parsec affects those games.
this videos a big fat fucking lie. parsec is worthless.
@@nezumiku6641 I mean, I've used it for other games and it's seemed to work just fine, so "worthless' seems a bit of a stretch. I never considered using it for specifically a fighting game before, but it seems fairly plausible to me.
@@Tomoka51 the context here is fighting games. i loved playing spelunky on it before the multiplayer officially came out. but spelunkys not a fighting game
Just bully developers to put rollback netcode in their game. You can play with people around the globe and it feels good because it doesn't create any input lag. Parsec introduces noticeable input lag and you also have to wait for the video stream to come back to you. It is nice for local couch coop games and the like, but that's about it.
Rollback netcode is the best solution for fighting games and developers finally starting to implement it, but some companies still need a push to do so.
ayyyy you called it. arksys seems determined to roll back every game in their library at this point.
good to see that Parsec is getting the attention it deserves! Great software. I was playing Hitman 3 in my laptop with a intel gpu which was running in my PC. A decent internet connection is enough to use parsec
I don't play fighting games, but your video quality is too much to turn down!
Keep it up, you rock!
Parsec is just a centralized server architecture vs peer to peer where you connect to each other. PC developers has been doing this this way for years. The problem is that console developers and especially Japanese console developers are really incompetent at developing good online multiplayer just from lack of experience. Not to mention centralized service costs money, but hey that's why you pay for a subscription to play online, right? Right!? And also because they have you by the balls. You'll buy their games anyway.
I remember running a Windjammers 2 Demo charity tournament last June and it was the first parsec only tournament ever at the time?
Really a crucial thing for friends trying to play older games online with homies
When he said iPhone when mentioning parsec my heart stopped I actually thought they finally released it 💀
I haven’t worked since covid started, I wish I could help support you guys, you make some of my fav esports content
Really nice video!
Might as well label this video as a full-blown AD.
We wish this was a sponsored video, but its actually just something we made because of how important the tech has proven to helping keep the FGC running during a lockdown.
i really hope parsec becomes the standard for tournaments.
We just need more games with rollback netcode
or Rollback
Great video as always!
To be fair, while SFV's netcode is well known for being pretty bad, but generally it's still a lot better than any delay based netcode game.
Parsec works really well for rhythm games too. Love playing Stepmania with friends and then switching it up to play blazblue.
Great video!
I was honestly blown away by how capcom actually handle the SF5 netcode problems. They straight up remove the netcode fix that their players has developed themselves and straight up lie about the their netcode being fix and somehow gets away with it scoffs free
Glad you addressed the sfv issue, its so annoying
I love these fgc videos because it's a community I don't know allot about but my brother is. About parsec though I think it works great and I've seen things similar to it before, the system makes sense and works as it's intended and while it isn't as perfect as ofline events you will never have a connection online that is.
My brother has a friend in the fgc that just doesn't like parsec because it isn't this perfect connection but I think that's a little too greedy. While the ofline events are what people are used to I wouldn't be surprised if parsec and services like it have tournaments even out of lockdown.
I've been using Parsec for years now and its 10/10 . So much better than steam remoteplay as well lol
Praying for GG Strive's Rollback netcode atm
I hope this guy realizes that the whole fun i would imagine of having LAN parties with friends was the fact that you were there in person making memories not simply the fact you were playing with friends
That's implied, though. You're there with friends, so obviously there's gonna be memories
Great video
Nintendo forced tournaments to shut down for using slippi net code, which led to the #freemelee. When splatoon players used names in support of the melee community in an official Nintendo tournament, the livestream was canceled. All teams forfeited and did an independent tournament with a community pooled prize pot about 10x the amount of the official tournament. Nintendo would rather sabotage their competitive communities and be publicly humiliated then allow legal, gameplay enhancing mods.
Playing catherine classic on parsec is fun as hell.
Threw in a cheeky little "Mahvel" there! 😂
yooooo a video about something ive actually played that isnt Overwatch! Parsec is honestly really cool, but also kinda scary. the other guy(s) in the same parsec lobby as you can literally take over your PC, but that being said : only play w people you 100% trust
That's why I will never use it. I'm extremely paranoid about downloading suspect software
That melee poster needs leffen with the big side profile villan pic
This is a good video but this is primarily focused on the competitive side. For the casuals who want to use this
Parsec, PLEASE add Mac & Linux hosting support
killing instinct is the best example of online play and not getting lag
#BringBackKI
No mention of MK/NRS and how they have stable tournament series online, and how they went above and beyond to retro-actively improve the netcode
This would have been the perfect sponsor video!
Parsec is the best. It is soooooo much better then playing any game online. It allows me to find good players at the beginning of playing a new fighting game instead of having to grind a ladder for hours in order to play good players. really helps with learning a new game. And no lag :). It is sad though that the only game I have really ever played online is Power Rangers which I have never once had lag playing.
Think there will be a way to incorporate parsec with consoles in the future? I want to see Ultimate do better, but this is just a pipe dream.
Lots of players are playing Ult on Yuzu Emulator
I ran Parsec.exe trying to host smash with my friend, and my monitor looked like it was melting, everything was purple and flowing downwards on my screen. Ever since then my monitor has had issues. Convinced it was caused by the glitchy hosting on parsec
Shoutouts to parsec for the umvc3 resurgence, got me back in the lab
Is this an Ad for Parsec? Because it really made me want to check it out even though I don't play fighting games online and have a GTX 3070.
Mah-vel
Nice.
Waiting for offline tournaments isn't really an option. Sadly the UK is in its third lockdown so it isn't really a good idea and I'm sure some people from North America can agree with me
I am so happy with parsec. I've wanted stadia to be successful purely for what parsec currently fulfills. I'm waiting for when SEA have a server, so I can play with the East Asian server. Finally, I can play anime fighters.
I don't know about parsec. It sounds like delay based netcode except the delay becomes input lag.Like trying to play a fighting game on stadia. I'd probably feel sick playing it to be honest.
If there's no freezing, it's because in scenarios where the game would have frozen, one players inputs would completely vanish.
nice parsec ad bro. srsly though don't have any problem with parsec and if it makes a lot more games viable for online tourney that's good, but I'm always gonna just default to whichever of my favorite games has rollback.