Amazing Sleep Tracking With A 90$ Polar Wearable!
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
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Timestamps:
00:00 Quick Intro
02:11 Sleep Test 1 : 3 Nights On Me
06:33 Sleep Test 2 : Compared To Other Devices
09:22 Sleep Test 3 : 3 Nights On Others
11:52 Sleep Test 4 : Scientific Paper (136 people)
12:56 Sleep Test : Overview
15:10 Conclusions and Limitations
Out of all sleep trackers I’ve tested, the Polar Verity Sense is the most accurate device I’ve tested so far when compared to the gold standard of sleep tracking! However, you do need a special algorithm to actually get these results, which was developed at the University of Salzburg. In my overview graph of sleep stage tracking, it ends up all the way up here, seemingly even outperforming the Apple Watch, though just slightly. This algorithm is implemented in an app, which I tested in a sleep lab against the gold standard of sleep stage tracking, and it did really well, though of course it still has some issues, as you will see later. Also, though the Polar Verity Sense is quite inexpensive at about 90 dollars, you do need a subscription to the app, which isn’t cheap at about 20 to 25 euros a month. But you can judge yourself if the performance is good enough for you, let’s get to it!
As you might have noticed, I did not mention the name of this app yet, and that’s because it is called Nukkuaaa, which is one of the worst names to advertise on radio, and apparently it means Sleep in Finnish. And, no you’re not crazy, the University of Salzburg is actually in Austria, not Finland. But, name aside, I was able to test this app because Prof. Manuel Schabus, who developed this app, invited me to his sleep lab. They actually also published a scientific paper on the app, but he understood I needed to test it myself so we can see if it is any good. So I proposed to sleep at his lab for three nights and compare the app against the gold standard of sleep stage tracking, and to additionally test the app on Theresa and Chris for another 3 nights total. So in total we have 6 nights of data to work with. In this video, I’ll start by looking at how the Nukkuaa performed on me, so we can also compare its performance to dozens of other devices, and after that we’ll look at Theresa’s and Chris’ data, and finally we’ll take a look at the scientific paper that Prof Schabus and his colleagues wrote. What is important to mention is that the thing that sets the Nukkuaa app apart from the competition, is the personalized sleep coaching, where they try to turn your smartphone and wearable into a home sleep laboratory. I think this is where all companies should be headed, but I’ll discuss that later in this video. 
Наука
Well, you had me until mentioning it is subscription based. This new trend needs to die.
Yeah I actually switched from whoop after 2 years to a polar h10 because I want to pay for something and use it when I want to not feel like I have to use it because I am paying for it. Now I put the h10 on when I work out and if I don’t I’m not losing money every day.
Completely agree
Absolutely, at the beginning I didn't see subscription as problem but as things starts to get added up it becomes significant and on top of that subscription amount goes up all the time.
I agree.
They would probably make more if they had a one time 100$ price
At that price, I'm not even close to considering their product.
If they really insist on subscription model, 1.99$/month would make sense to me.
@@TheMarbo74 I watched a video recently of their amazing penthouse office with treadmills and safe spaces and it looked so fucking lush and I thought ah on so that’s where subscriptions go 😂 now granted they have clothing and other things now but yeah it was a real fad to begin with but anything long term subscription is going to come to an end as people realise I’m paying almost 1000 for something over the course of 3 years.
This is where software as a service ends up - trying to lease out an algorithm for $150 a year. Just insane. I'd really like to start owning stuff I can buy again.
Just tell polar to acquire the software algorithm
Software as a service is the scam of the 21st century
I know, at that price I'd rather buy an apple watch
Its 200€ now lol
@@livewallberg300€…
Stopped watching when he mentioned subscription...
Would have loved to pay 200-300€ instead of a subscription:/
For an app?
@@geezer5357 for a device where the app is included. A sleep analysis device which is nearly as good as the golden standart, small and easy to wear and everytime ready at home... sounds like a good price.
I'm totally against most subscriptions...another great production. Greetings from Ireland...
I believe that they would sell more if there wasn't any subscription...
Yeah, that subscription is bonkers, how can they justify that for a physical product plus an app that it cannot function without and presumably doesn't need much in the way of changes from year to year for this specific product? Madness.
Edit: my bad, I was commenting before watching anything past that initial mention of the subscription price, didn't realise it was a third party app. Still, much rather buy the Apple Watch outright with almost the same quality of sleep tracking plus all the other features than buy this and also have to subscribe to an app just to make its sleep tracking marginally better than the Apple Watch.
Alright Rob time to get the community together and develop open source sleep algorithms for polar devices. Do you have data sets that could help with this effort? I'm interested to contribute!
I would contribute aswell. They don't seem to require subscription to access data via API. The biggest challenge i guess is data crowdsourcing
I would contribue too !
@mello1016 for a one off purchase I'd join a CrowdFunding drive!
I can't share a link to anything here but if anyone can create a git or discord I'd be glad to help then
I'd also contribute
€15 a month is insane.
Its 25 now
The subscription plague. If I buy a product it means it should do things it is claimed to. If a company wants a subscription for a gadget it should be free or on a loan.
Love this video. Can you make a video about the best wearables that DON’T require a subscription and have all settings completely free rather than a free and premium platform?
If you watch his latest video on the Fit Bit Charge 6, he shows a graph of all the watches he has reviewed. My interpretation is the Fit Bit range watches and the latest Apply watches are the best sleep trackers and they don't require a subscription.
Hands down the best research a consumer can get. He should be getting all the devices from the companies for free
Subscriptions are a con. The product either works or it doesn't. Why pay for a monthly subscription? How does it add value to a physical product that you've already brought?
I'm not a fan of subscription, but of course it also depends on the price.
I wouldn't spend more than €3/month on it.
Show me where Twitter blue touched you
That's very impressive they can produce such accurate results using only HRM. I guess just goes to show how much room for improvement smart and fitness watches still have. Considering these watches have access to accelometer as well.
Polar devices also have motion detection.
too good to be true, I mean too expensive (subscription) to be purchased.
Thank you for this review, Rob! Let's hope your channel continues to grow, so companies send you their devices!
As many others, I don't like the subscription. But I find this is good news. It means it's doable with few informations (just HR). In the future we'll have very good health trackers, and I hope it's gonna be near future (and they're gonna be affordable for everyone)
Thank you so much for this excellent review and introduction to this amazing product. Great to have 'at home' monitoring system with a good amount of agreement to a scientific sleep lab.
I think what this shows is that while impressive, the algorithm used is highly dependent on the person which the algorithm is applied on when it comes to interpreting sleep stage detection / classification.
For instance, Rob, you have close to 90% agreement between Apple and Garmin with Reference Device when it comes to Deep Sleep.
I also happen to have the Garmin and Apple devices latest models... except I don't have a Reference Device.
So if you got 90% agreement with reference when it comes to Deep Sleep with Garmin and Apple we should be able to say that when it comes to Deep Sleep the Garmin and Apple is pretty good since the only difference will just be Me and You.
But for me, Garmin vs Apple is highly different when it comes to Deep Sleep detection. So this means that the algorithm used is affecting what should be both 90% agreement with "True Deep Sleep".
Overall very very interesting study. Thanks Rob.
I agree it's all seems to be about the algorithm and not better detection.
appreciate what you do!
Im gonna download the app and try it out for a month. Thanks for this review Rob!
Thank you very much for your efforts, I think it's great how thoroughly you research the topic
He really doesn't mention the fact that you need to have 3 hours of deep sleep
wonderful news and great video!
Love your unbiased and well-rounded approach.
I am really torn whether I should buy it because of the subscription model.
I agree with another earlier commentator: If the app was 200€ one-time fee, I would have bought it today!
Together with the tracking device. But now I am not sure.
this stuff is fantastic, backed by scientific testing and analyzed by someone who can explain the numbers in laymens terms :) keep it up! I'm looking for a good tracker and stumbled on your channel. the apple watch seems to be pretty good but its so big I don't know if I can sleep with something that big on my wrist
Thank you, Rob! Love your analysis!
With the Nukkuaaa app not available in my area, which app would you recommend as the next best with the Polar device?
You can try Sleep as Android. I used it this night and it seems pretty good
You mentioned getting manufacturers to send you products to review. I don't think Garmin would do that. Their watches are not that accurate @ heart rate or sleep tracking. As I've mentioned before, I wear both Garmin & Apple watches on opposite wrists. As an example, this mornings walk, the Apple watch SE recorded an average HR of 99 bpm. The Garmin Venu 2 recorded 83. Having tested these 2 watches (& many more) with both Garmin & Polar chest straps, the Apple SE is quite accurate. The Garmin's never reach that level. I can always pair the Garmin with a chest strap so that can bring the Venu up to the Apple in terms of accuracy.
Sleep tracking has never been a Garmin strong suit but it has improved over the years. It's still not on a level with Apple but few are. Manufacturers can be just a bit touchy about reviews that are a bit less than glowing. There are a few reviewers that they can't ignore and hopefully someday that includes you. Until then, just keep on doing what you're doing. Thanks.
Lost me at "subscription"
Please do more of these app algorithm reviews! I have the polar h10 and would love to know it's accuracy in combination
In what universe is this worth any monthly fee. Exactly where is the value?
For the two people interested, nukkuaa (with two a's) isn't really Finnish:
Are you going to sleep outside? --> Aiotko *nukkua* ulkona?
Did you fall asleep? --> *Nukahditko?*
I slept only four hours. --> *Nukuin* vain neljä tuntia.
We slept only four hours. --> *Nukuimme* vain neljä tuntia.
Usually Finns sleep on the roof. --> Yleensä suomalaiset *nukkuvat* katolla.
Did you sleep well? --> *Nukuitko* hyvin? (one person)
Did you sleep well? --> *Nukuitteko* hyvin? (several persons)
Did she sleep at all? --> *Nukkuiko* hän ollenkaan?
Did he sleep at all? --> *Nukkuiko* hän ollenkaan?
...
It would be interesting to see how Sleep as Android is doing as it is a free app and has full integration of Polar API
I use Sleep As Android and find it quite good, although I have the paid version, well it was around only $5 as an in app discount a few years ago but at least it is not a month to month sub.
yeah that would be very interesting. If it actually performs somehow good, this would be the best combo ever because there is no subscriptiom if you buy the lifetime
A review of the sleep as Android + polar Combo would be great
@@steviebboy69 Sleep as Android was very accurate for me when it first came out, not so much for me anymore:( I paid for it btw.
I have an H10 coming in the post this week so this is great news. Thanks for the info, analysis, and speculation. Cheers! 🍻👍🏾🖖🏾
It's getting better and better. Will try it with my H10. Had the Dreem2 but bthe build quality was so bad that I ren through 3 devices in the Wranty time.
Wasn't build for daily usage.....
I loved that you compared several people in this test because it shows that the sensor parts probably doing the same thing, the algorithm fails some people thus makes these devices completely unreliable like an uncalibrated scale as the person who tries to get some data about the sleep, doesn't know what category he/she fits in, only know about not having enough or good sleep.
Also, your link to Amazon Polar H10 doesn't seem to work.
thanks
I am really looking forward to your review on the Withings Scanwatch 2! When will you upload it?
Great, great test, thanks you 👍👍
Can you test it with sleep as android! Sleep as android should have a solid algorithm and work with this device.
0:38 _"you do need a subscription"_
POV: *simpsons_grandpa_hat.gif*
Same lol
funny! but I doubt you know what POV means..
... perhaps you're right, my friend. But at least a handful of people understood what I meant.
I watch all your videos and i now want the new xiaomi watch 2 pro. If you could make a review of this watch i would be so happy. Love your channel keep the good work ❤❤❤
Nukka is not available in Australia. Does the Nukka app work with other chest straps? Like the Wahoo chest strap
Is apple watch se the best overall option? Would be sensible buying an used iPhone just to be able to use the watch? What do you guys think?
Excelent review!
Could you please do a review for cmf watch by nothing?
The polar chest strip changed the optional personalized tracking and usage of your data to mandatory.
Is it the same with the watch? If yes this would be a big minues for me as well
Oh dear. Another Finnish company gone to the dogs due to greed and lack of care for customers. What a shame.
No Nukkuaa is using the raw data with out polar servers !
I love your stuff 🤓
1:20 I cannot sleep with my AppleWatch ultra. You really have a gift 😂 I wish it could also be secured in my ankle
Loved the comprehensive review and always interested in more sleep tracking!
same, sleep tracking is the most important trackable parameter to me. would be great tho, if they would implement 24hrs ecg as well
can you also use a different (free) app for sleep tracking?
Watting the answer... Or something cheaper.
For some germans the app is free for 12 months. You need to be insured by TK health insurance.
Thank you! When you get to such high rates, you need to start taking into account error rates for PSG
Hi! Will you be measuring Xiaomi Band 8 Pro?
Does it give more reliable data than the regular Band 8?
Any plans to review new Amazfit Balance ?? Seems like they finally improved HR tracking
Waiting for this one too
Great video👍
I love your scientific reviews :-)
Actually, I have a question; since the accuracy of monitoring is by via the 3rd party application. Does this really mean, Polar VeritySense than other wearable devices?
Have not checkout thst 3rd party app yet, wandering what other devices are compatible with? And amount all those devices, truly Polar VeritySense is the best amount? Just wandering...
By all mean, this review is very helpful😊
Rob, I value your contributions enormously, but I have two questions.
1) Is the arbitrariness between your, Theresa's, Chris's and @wayne1516's results not caused by the arbitrariness inherent in definitions of what constitutes light sleep versus REM sleep, etc.? If you draw the boundaries sightly different, you could come up with very different sleep percentages, and you could legitimately defend each of these equally.
2) When I first used my Polar Ignite 2 for sleep monitoring, my watch mentioned that it had first to calibrate my sleeping patterns for four nights before it was actually able to accurately describe my sleep of the last night. How is this handled in these watches and PSG? Such calibration can make a tremendous difference. (For instance, as an older guy, my sleep will probably be more like that of Theresa, i.e. lighter.)
I was really excited about this in the intro, but I just turned off the video the moment a subscription gets mentioned. Great content, but there's zero chance I'll buy it.
Not only is it a subscription, the price is absolutely insane!
Maybe it’s the verity sense from polar that is doing the bulk of the work. Have you tested that?
Is there a feature in this app that allows me to be woken up during light sleep? For example, could I set a 30-40 minute window for waking up between 05:00 and 05:40? Currently, I have an Apple Ultra Watch, but I haven't been able to find an app in the App Store that supports this feature
Great video. Seems to have changed the name to Sleep2 and it also support the polar h10 chest strap. Could you do a test with h10?
Any alarm apps that can wake you in light sleep?
I would love to see a test of the sleep as android app. Some years ago I used a mi band 2 which had a useless sleep tracker but when I started to use it with the sleep as android app it worked really well, especially the smart alarm feature. Nowadays I have a galaxy watch 5 and I started again to use the app. The results are different than the Samsung health sleep tracking and again, the smart alarm works really well. It seems that no matter the device, the app just uses the sensors input to analyse your sleep with its algorithms.
I watch all your videos, why when you tested the Huawei Band 8_1 it was better and in the next videos on the table the Huawei Band 8_2 is better. Is the Huawei 8_2 a black band? Thank you for what you do and please reply. Greetings from Poland
Very cool video, I've had the Verity Sense for 2 years but didn't think indepe app developers could access the data... The subscription price way too high (and Nukkua is not available in my country) since Sleep As works with my Polar Verity. Will see how it compares to my Garmin Fenix 6x
0:41 €/month 0:50 ASCII art 1:26 paper 7:30 zoom 9:00 sleep heart rate 11:56 paper 14:10 cross validation 15:05 conflicts 16:29 €
Could you please review the new amazfit balance?
Hope, the app will be available in other countries soon.
i'm sure i read somewhere that polysonsomethingorother itself isn't particularly accurate, (i.e. not the gold standard of gold standard's), that it relies on expert interpretation of the multiple sensor results, and that the experts only achieve 85% agreement amongst themselves
i doubt i'd even pay a subscription model for that level of accuracy
yep its true... And if the Dreem 2 device he is using is 80% accurate compared to polysonsomethingorothe, well how accurate are the results on the other devices really.
I got a polar variety sense based largely on your reviews. It seems to work very well, but I wish I didn't need to pull out my phone to see the readings. Do you have any recommendations for smartwatches that can display the HR data from polar straps / chest straps? I would love something small (~40mm or less), inexpensive, easy to read outside, with a long battery life.
Im looking for this aswell
I own a Polar Verity and it's interesting what they can achieve with a relatively cheap device, but the pricing is not as "consumer" grade as the device is. Seems like a startup with interesting technology that will eventually end up acquired or licensing their ip.
Good video
Since light sleep is closest to awake wouldn't it make more sense to sort it in tables like: deep, rem, light and wake?
SO polar devices (except the OH1+) have sleep tracking capabilities but polar doesn't leverage them and you need to use an other app (which is a paid app) to take advantage of said capabilities ? mhm....
Nukkuaa... geez! Yep that takes the cake for bad productification
I am afraid Polar verity sense that is put around the arm will be noticeable for side sleepers?
@Rob: I see in the videos that you’ve tested the Muse S gen 2 against PSG, but I cannot find a dedicated video on it. Is one coming soon? I really hope so!
FYI, the nukkuaa app is not available today in my Play Store (Galaxy S23) for my region (SE USA).... BTW, i do not see a video on the Resmed Sleep Score max device ... is that because it is not wearable? - or because they do not allow you to download your data? Also, are you not able to get a Dreem 3 to test?
I support YOU to get watches first to review them! :)
Do you plan on testing the Xiaomi Watch 2 Pro?
Please waiting for your review over the sleep recommendation in the app..
Great review, but forget about it because of subscription, no way is it worth it.
Would be cool seeing alternative apps for the polar and seeing how they compare. Defo a cheap option untill you pay 25/month starting 2024 for nukkuaa. Also I can't read german so the app is really annoying to use for me.
Why did pixel watch moved from previous position on the chart regarding the sleep tracking? I didnt see it was mentioned in any video
Very expensive. It's easier to buy an Apple Watch.
And Apple will use your sleepdata ...
@@furiousdoe7779for what
Great, so slightly less expensive than the whoop, but really only tracking sleep and nothing else, and You have to still buy your own device as well. Crazy
Hello everyone! Does it has smart alarm for better wake up? Or can it synchronized with any app?
Man could do a video about Ring tracker like ultrahuman,circular ring and aurora
just checked it on google playstore....nearly one star reviews only!!!! So, can you please explain?
Can you change the language to english on the app?
no, I just downloaded it and there is no such option
@@plammenn888thank you, thats annoying
@@twiddless do u have any smart watch to monitor your sleep right now? I went through all the videos of this channel and brainstorming what might be the best one 😀
@@plammenn888 i use the galaxy watch 4, its pretty good and does what i need it to but he says in his videos that the apple watch are the best one smart watches for tracking im pretty sure, the apple watch SE is pretty affordable i think, i use a samsung so i went for the galaxy watch though.
when you will do CMF (nothing watch ) accuracy test ?
Great review and up-front disclosure of the subscription cost - that’s where I lost interest in the product (even though I kept watching).
Still not available in the U.S. Unfortunate, I was interested in the personal sleep training, I don't have a problem with paying for a subscription service, the basic app is free.
Why doesn't it work with the Polar H9? I'd probably subscribe for a few months if it did.
Can you track sleep with the polar T31? Or ECG straps in general?
Wasn't Hamilton overtaking off the track in Abu Dhabi?
Thanks for mentioning the subscription early on the video.
when modded version of the app? a friend asked..
Does it show HRV? Thank you
fyi I didn't see the annotations pop up 🤔 unsure if it was just me
I would have snapped this right up if it weren't for the subscription. Damn.
I’m having trouble grasping how that table presented at time 2:16 works. Can you explain how those percentages relate to the axis. ty.
It took me a few videos to get it.. here is my understanding.
You are comparing what's on the left with a master reference on the top. If what you are comparing would be perfectly in sync with the reference,you would get 100% in a diagonal.
In this example, 91.7% agreeing with the reference because 8.3%of the time the left thinks it is in light sleep when that 8.3% should be in deep.
The most important data is on the diagonal that should be ideally 100%. Other are just for your information: the percentage of miscorrecterized data.
Can the device be used with the third party app without the subscription m
Should look into sleep as android using the H10 polar heart rate monitor or the sense and see the results. Anyone use have any experience doing this what wad your results?
Sigh, never going for those subscription models.