FDEV Punishes Us - Explained

[@Jerrec]

I simply have not the time to get that module, so I dont bother at all.

[@markbooth3066]

That's exactly right, I rarely engage with community goals. They always feel like they are designed for the top 10% and everyone else is just there to push up the grind for that top 10%.

[@Jerrec]

@@markbooth3066 I 100% agree.

[@foquai7458]

I 100% agree. It is sad that some folks missed your point in the first video... kinda makes you wonder....

[@hughey22]

Its a grind for sure, at the moment it takes 10,420 tons to make 50% and the number keeps going up. They should of made the CG 100 tons and everyone gets the module, top 50 and 25 and 10% get some skin or paint rewards

[@Astyrrean]

Exactly my point!

[@elvfrem]

Yeh exactly. Have a set-in-stone threshold and once you hit it, you get the reward. Then big haulers get extra small stuff as well but they dont push others down for doing big hauls.
As it is now, its just a competition and its dumb.

[@sinntaxdagreat]

If this module is so important looks like you better get hauling buddy.... 😂. Love the content

[@xblackdogrunsx]

So lame!

[@captainyossarian388]

The Titan drive module CG was great. Had a lot fun hunting down the elusive modules while stocking up on other Titan mats and fighting hunters in the debris cloud. Very atmospheric and immersive, especially in VR.
Yes, dual goal CGs should be the default so that as many players have the opportunity to play the CG as they would like.

[@fartex1]

CG the way it is done now, is like you say. if you have hours to spend and dont see sunlight, you are more likely to get a reward as opposed to someone that has a job, a family and very few hours to spend on the game.
and oh, btw, im on a break again. the engineering grind in this game seriously needs a big overhaul.
im tired of spending x amount of days to get materials so i can fully engineer a ship.
yeah, i dont think Fdev actually listens to their community, they just flick a switch and tell us to live with it.

[@mackeysasser420]

It's funny listening to this mumbler complaining about a part of the game he doesn't like. Who cares if you dont like it. We get it if the cg isn't ax u think it's bogus. There is a bunch of the player base that doesn't only fight thargoids so they like a change in just bombing runs that are just repetitive as well. So if you dont like it just don't play it or go do some spire sites that are still active during this CG. So go do that and stop complaining about giving everyone some gameplay incentives.

[@DarkerStarSword]

100% agree. To put things into further perspective, there are currently 3800 participating accounts in the CG, which means there are 1900 accounts that will miss out on the CRCR reward, which is a huge number. Now, some of those will be alt accounts being used to pad out the number of participants to increase the size of the reward pool, or people who only want the paint job reward, so it's not entirely fair to say that 1900 players missed out, but the fact that the top 75% percentile starts at a non-trivial amount of over 2000 units delivered means that the number of participating accounts who don't care about the CRCR reward is small - hard to say how many, but probably only a few hundred at most. That means that there are probably well over 1500 players who want the CRCR reward, but will miss out, and they can't simply "try harder", because trying harder doesn't increase the number of players who get the reward, it only changes which players get it.
Edit: Yay, they changed it so everyone gets at least 1 CRCR =)

[@Frozenwinter84]

The other issue with hauling only CGs is that they favor commanders with FCs. I loaded mine up with a bunch of power generators and jumped it close to Rhea and have a much shorter turn around for delivering the materials now than someone without a FC who might have to make several jumps to purchase them from another station.

[@elvfrem]

This is exactly what I said on the forums as well when i saw this discussion come up about how bad it was or boring.. Why is it a COMPETETION when its a COMMUNITY event.
By all means have thresholds, but competition and have/have not is just not good for the game and just makes people more alienated towards eachother.
I saw many on the forums and even ingame agree when i voiced this same concern so I am glad it is actually not just something we new players feel is weird and off.
I feel that competition events should still be a thing, but should not be a COMMUNITY event but rather be labeled as some sort of VS event instead with a different matching set of rewards for those that would do that.

[@KingArthurFleck]

I completely agree. CG should be constructed so as the saying goes, "a rising tide lifts all boats (ships LOL)" o7

[@sfs2040]

You make a lot of sense here, I apologize for my kneejerk reaction from your previous video. It was clear I was out if line and misunderstood what you meant.

[@caligarner6953]

I agree with you 💯 percent mate. Absolutely agree. Keep up the awesome content bruv.

[@thorlos1974]

Agree with your sentiments. Community goals should unify and benefit all (or no one)

[@Anthony-fk2zu]

Highly valuable modules just shouldn't be locked behind a competition. The goal should be to unlock them for everyone. It's such a missed opportunity.

[@TheBlackOf1993]

The only reason I managed to deliver 20k tonnes of cargo (and be 50th percentile) is because my partner is currently out of town for 10 days, and I happened to be on sick leave (and have a fully engineered cutter). No way I could be otherwise spending that much time on this CG.

[@kirkrage5866]

If it’s an absolute necessity for AX combat, then all AX players will have done the CG! The galaxy is a big place, one has a choice. Serendipity plays a large part in discovery, things are definitely not just around the corner. Love your dedication to the game.

[@Ansicone]

I have wondered about this a lot. It does indeed seem like a rat race rather than "let's work together", you know, a "community goal".
Any contribution should mean that if we collectively hit the target we get the rewards. Anything to recognise top contributors should be on the vanity side - title, cosmetics, etc, but not the main universal reward!

[@MethodicalAnarchy]

I believe the issue is broader, simply locking extremely useful module to a specific, time constrained event is a bad game design by itself, I for example have no time for the game now and I don't get why I'm punished for it. Even people that are not on the break from the game may have not enough time to get to top 50%. Why can't the module just be behind a grind-wall that can be scaled whenever individual schedule allows like most things and unique rewards consist solely of cosmetics instead, thus no one having unfair advantage the dev always maintained they try to avoid.

[@ConnorLinley]

About your first point about only the top 50% getting the carfo rack: I think they could keep the format but only have cosmetic rewards restricted to the top tiers of players. In other words everyone gets the corrosive rack but only the top 50% get rewarded with a skin.

[@garethde-witt6433]

Well done Cmdr Mechan🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻 It seems that Fdev has made a change a small one but it’s better than nothing 😊

[@Roblstar]

I do not think that you had to explain yourself Mechan?
Though I do think it may help some that find it hard to empathise with others gameplay easier to understand your perspective?
The CG was badly timed after a lot of the AX community, had been working very hard to defeat Indra.
I see that.
They gave that part of the community no chance of a break...
But a player that does not engage with the AX side of the game.
Or a player that has not got as deep into the game as others may not?
I think that in many ways your attitude was correct!
I personally felt the same.
I also realise that the Devs do not play the game in the same way that many of us do.
Therefore I would be hesitant to give criticise them to much?
But I think that your opinion was correct!
I also totally agree with your point about only 50% getting the reward.
If no one tells them?
They do not know...
I think that many were to dissmisive of your attitude in your video & lacked understanding?
Thank you for your content ;)
Cheers

[@Jungleer]

I agree... It is punishing to those of us without the hauling capacity and/or time to do this kind of CG. I really could use that CR64ton rack, but I'm not going to grind for hours/day with my best hauler (Python) with no hope of getting into that top 50% contributor area.
Even with my trade loop being only 1 jump away, w/3x64ton racks it takes more time than I want to spend doing this sort of thing. I have limited use for a type 9 right now and can't justify it's price tag either.
Story-wise, I get it it, but it doesn't make for good or fair gameplay mechanics to lock an item away that should be more easily available.

[@CMDR_Sawdust22]

I agree with you. I actually enjoy hauling, but the 50% threshold made this a competition, which is lame.

[@trixer230]

I agree with this as well. Ive played a lot of elite dangerous over 5000 hours, and it always feels like someone is putting more time in has these kewler modules as a result. From better cargo wracks, to weapons that are over powered and removed from the game, but the players who had them are allowed to keep them.
Everytime fdev announces I always feel like the best time is the speculation, and then once we get whatever it is, its always lame, requires tons and tons of grinding, and creates a system where unless you stop everything you are doing and go do that one thing righ tnow, you will miss out FOREVER on something.

[@reap3rofd00m3]

I agree that they should not do 50%, it should be all or nothing, this kind of community goal rewards playtime above all else, as those who were in the top 50% on day 1 of CG may not be 50%+ on day 6 of the CG

[@MrSandermander]

I don't know. 64t cargo rack is a nice to have thing but definitely not something necessary or OP. Maybe it was a thing when tissue sampling was a good for the war progress but not now. Even for the future possible CG for collecting titan organs bones and trumors it won't be so important to have. Having carrier is much more important for such purposes than 64t cargo racks.

[@dantesinferno7350]

The last time they had the 64Res rack in the CG I hauled for 3 days and then went back to work, I missed out by 100 tons. This Time ive had to put aside 2 days of my holidays to ensure I get one this time.

[@jasperlit1345]

Hey I feel your pain, if I remember correctly only the top 10 commanders were awarded that 64T rack, I think there is only 10 of them in game right now- I di try for it back then, close but didnt happen..

[@nrogado]

Fully agree! And because of the stupid X percent I will never, never, never join a Community Goal! I never did and I will never join!

[@kennethpaulson6540]

My 2 cents on it.... It should have been a target goal delivered. I do agree that it really should be everyone gets the reward if we reach a certain tier, but with some slight adjustments it could have worked out so much better for everyone that did participate. I got lucky, really lucky, in that I spotted the CG only a couple hours after it started and was able to jump in on it right away. And, I have a cutter. Even with a cutter, if I tried hopping in now and getting to the top 50%, it would be a serious grind with no guarantee I'd make it.
My suggestion, we make tier 5 and everyone gets a cargo rack, with bonuses for being in the upper percentages of contributors. We complete it, a bonus rack for everyone that contributed.
Not a fan of hauling CG's myself either, but, the class 6 CRCR is a big enough deal to get me doing loops. FDev wants to get people involved and grow the player base, they really need to look at what the player base is talking about.

[@Astyrrean]

Exactly my point!

[@elvfrem]

Instead of a competition, you can just have a set-in.stone threshold for extra rewards.
Example, like for this one: haul 5k and you get the rack. Haul 10k and you get extra stuff like more mats for engineering or some cool paintjob or decal. And then anyone 20k and up get arx as well or something.
It isnt hard to make it feel rewarding for the big haulers and not leave everyone else who cannot commit out.

[@etackhelicopter]

The reward is worrisome, larger anti-corrosive racks? Why? Maybe this is a way to see who has an interest in hauling, and thargoid content.
Yes, you will get the competitive haulers, I have been one many years ago, but you may also get haulers that are interested in xeno activity, and these racks may be helpful in a future endeavor frontier is wanting to insert in the game.
I think, the goal is to get the modules into the hand of people who will use them, vs just meeting an arbitrary goal for everyone who won't. There have been a number of modules locked out by CG in the past. I imagine something as boring as a cargo rack, will eventually be unlocked to everyone in the future, maybe with some dumb tech broker requirements.

[@VitalyNcrYT]

I don't see a problem with this particular CG except it annoys people who want the large rack and don't like hauling. I kinda agree that community goals shouldn't probably be competitive, but they all are, its just that their rewards are usually trash so nobody really cares, usually, but not this time.
With this CG, it's still not too difficult to reach 50% if you have a Cutter or Type-9. You need about 14 runs (in solo without gankers and without shields). To/from the neighbor system just 20ly away. The top commander made about 180 runs, it seems. I'm amused.
Apparently whoever is above 50% should thank those who are below 50%. Who signed up, hauled a little and said "screw it". Or those who are trying but don't have a suitable ship or enough time or enough desire. And it's pretty much real life real society situation.
As of necessity of the large corrosion resistant rack. Spire materials farming? Come on, you are so limited by your SRV's 4 units of cargo. Unless you farm coral sap from the air, but then you are limited by ammo. Titan sampling in the past? It was very balanced. You could sample all existing attachment points and fill up your Krait with small racks. Scout sampling? Probably the only valid requirement, but mass scout sampling wasn't meant to exist as I imagine :)
This game is and always was about compromises, there's no best build. So yes, you give up on limpet space if you want to pick up thargoid hearts etc. (and synth limpets if needed). Just as I give up on some jump range of my exploration ship and take small repair and research limpet controllers, just in case. And so on.

[@Astyrrean]

Ohh you should see how I park my phantom under megabarnacles :). 4T of the Scarab is just a quick trip to ship, transfer cargo, and back. We have ways …

[@VitalyNcrYT]

@@Astyrrean Oh, parking under megabarnacle would speed things up, I couldn't do that :) I parked in landscape pits next to a megabarnacle to reduce successful scout fire, still after some time scouts found ways to land next to it, heh

[@ShawnNish]

I agree CMDR, its a pain in the ass hauling all that shit but I really want the cargo rack.. so we suffer through it. thats bad design.
but I gotta admit it improved my skills in something I didnt do much ingame, which was hopping in and out as fast as possible to maximize profit/time

[@adrianwilliams6577]

I'm not sure Frontier truly wants, values or appreciates feedback from Elite players, look at Frontier Unlocked and tell me how many times a player has been on the show? I used to take part in community goals on a regular basis, when I see the earnings for taking part are drab I'm not encouraged to take part.
You can see how much Frontier think of their Elite Dangerous Odyssey content too, I haven't seen any community gaols involving the content from Odyssey. Hauling can consume an evening or weekend but sometimes I'm not in the mood, non lucrative hauling will always suck.

[@looking_glass2022]

Our greatest enemy is the guy you see shaving in the mirror every day

[@judeg.8101]

I've played this game when it was on the Commodore 64. I would love to do CG's. But I have limited time and can't dedicate the time to get in the upper tiers'. I wish they would change the game play for people who work for a living.

[@FreeFragUK]

For sake of disclosure I stepped away from ED some time ago due to how Frontier have managed the game. When it comes to community goals the clue is in the name, these are community in nature and as such they should unlock stuff for the community. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult concept.
Out of curiosity, is it the case that once you've completed the task the module is freely available to your account? Or do you simply receive a single item?

[@Astyrrean]

It varies. Sometimes it’s a one-off module (like in this case.) Other times a module is made broadly available.

[@shaeleable]

Remember, this is the same company that said they couldn't imagine what to do with ship interiors... what makes you think they have any imagination for community goals.

[@garethde-witt6433]

I don’t do ax so for me it’s not needed, but I agree with your point

[@mikewaterfield3599]

Im annoyed its almost over, i have not been able to log in the last couple days and its nearly over.

[@x.GHOB.x]

I agree completely with you in terms of your reasoning.

[@RetroCowboy78]

you mean you had an oppinion and dared make a video? .... respect!

[@Nighthawk1983]

I agree with you, I was one day late to the start of the CG and just because of that I didnt even bother beginning. Instead I took a few days out of the game. Simply because there is no chance of getting in top 50 being one day behind.
And for me making a CG thats forcing people into more PVP than actual CG. CG in my head is a thing where the community have to work together.

[@Profane_Pagan]

I was one day late to the start as well and I am on top 25% now. On Inara you can follow the required contributions for every reward tiers at the community goals tab. With its help it was pretty simple to plan on how many trips you need to make. And a neighboring system (NLTT 19808) has aluminium and titanium and one round trip can be done in 8 mins. For top 50% you only had to haul around 4000-5 000 yesterday 6500 earlier today and 10 000 units later today.

[@plflaherty1]

Great points, Thanks!

[@ratstar4102]

Protect CMDR Mechan at all cost

[@alz722]

Completely agree.

[@c44448]

ít would be ok if we all get the rack once we hit rank 5 but the top 50% get it for free

[@Astyrrean]

Now this would be completely fair, totally agree.

[@elvfrem]

That could work tbh.
A fair threshold could also be something like "5k gives you the rack, 10k gives you a paintjob as well. 20k+ also gives some arx."
its super easy to fix this and make it feel community like.

[@orderoftwelve]

Lot of interesting commentary. But two important points:
When everyone is special, nobody is (in the MMO community, many like to E-Peen to those that do not have what they do, usually armor tiers in more successful MMO-RPG) It's never good to make all goals a time-sync instead of a skill, or gear-check requirement to get to more content.
And as far as Community Goals being about bringing the community together, FDEV has admitted that some CG are used to distract players from things. All CG and Galnet posts are not written by the same person. Sometimes Canonn writes puzzles to solve to hold their leadership and respect among a community that didn't know that many of the people that paid the 300$ pre-alpha Elite : Dangerous , were promised they could lead the narrative (and even in alpha the 300$ backers attacked the 75$ backers; and if you look at some of Cannon's first posts on their website , they admit to writing Galnet entries. So, it is very hard to know the motive on all CG and all Galnet entries- as the full data of their source is never given to the player base.
Interesting commentary, whether we all agree. Keep it up, and look at Hedra dot come or live portrait to immerse your audio with your CMDR speaking. Been looking at all these new tools as well.

[@fishstix4209]

Looks like fdev watched your video and made some epic changes...🙌🙌🙌

[@generalagony]

100%. Great video

[@1bloke512]

i will never be interested in CG's again i put tons of time into getting the cg frame shift drives even jumping to colonia to get two of each.... then they bring out the sco drives making all my work pointless..... i said this on your live stream but i dont think you understood what i was meaning like i said on ur live stream just wait they will cough and you will get the rack anyway.... they have made CG rewards pointless! not only pointless was my origional work i then had to material hunt to add the experimental TWICE.... i'm as unhappy as you are

[@Sighman]

I delivered 2 tons with each of my 3 alts, and 20k with my main. If all commanders with alts did this, nobody would miss out on the reward.

[@mephistar_one]

You are right. But I like rewards)

[@mikewaterfield3599]

I like community goals when there is a reward. It can be as simple as a badge.

[@vagabondquerier9375]

1st Vid was a cringy vid full of toxic views and deliver poorly, this 2nd Vid is excellent thought out and presented uber well.

[@fishstix4209]

Well said

[@aardappelianen1418]

yep

[@AnotherOne-Retro-Paladin]

The best reward is 5 class rack (32 units) for all after reaching the tier 5 and 6 Class for 50% (reward for effort).
So no one will be sad IMHO.

[@Profane_Pagan]

No they don't. You are not a hauler no problem. But that doesn't mean Fdev punishes the community. They installed a 6th tier so even after reaching the needed fifth, others are able to get in the 50%. Not everybody, especially not a late and ocassional haulers sure. The higher entry level creates a rush and a sense of urgency so people haul enough to Rhea. There are winners and losers in this action, but hauling 10 000 units is an everyday task in any powerplay hauling effort. Sure, you are not a hauler, but again: you can't please everybody. The target was not to hand out Size 6 caustic resistant cargo racks to everybody. The goal was to make a huge communal effort for Winters. Looks like for dramaturgic reasons in the narrative.

[@PsyTechnical]

Accurate!

[@Spyke114]

As an imperial combat pilot, this CG fails me on multiple fronts. First, I don't want to haul, and worse, I don't want to haul *for the feds*. If this were to unlock that crcr for purchase, I'd consider it; but not for one singular rack

[@user-qu8lw4yp4q]

If everyone get the same prize, then only the most active participants will be forced to pull the community goal to the desired level. Is it fair?

[@Astyrrean]

Except that if you make it cooperative vs competitive, the community organizes accordingly and pulls off things that are unfathomable in a competitive setting. Look at the sampling work … wings of T9s working together to sample at scale. Dedicated cutters to haul samples to hollowed out carriers. Entire groups coordinating across systems with major resources in play. Massive unloading group efforts. THAT is community. Not this competitive garbage.

[@elvfrem]

If you really worried about big haulers getting nothing for their effort, then set thresholds.
5k for the baseline reward. 10k for something extra and then anyone over 20k also get some arx. Its not hard to fix it. Like.. At all. Many other games doing COMMUNITY events does it this way.

[@LancemusPrime]

All that bitchin' for nothing. Every participant got a cargo rack.

[@captainyossarian388]

Now. Probably as a result of the valid criticism of making players compete against each other in a CG.

[@LancemusPrime]

@@captainyossarian388 more likely a result of the cg being completed so quick. Assuming they did it because you whined enough is fairly narcissistic.

[@captainyossarian388]

@@LancemusPrime Whatever makes you happy, troll.

[@enrogae]

I agree with your general sentiments about community goals (premise) but not necessarily your idea that everyone should get the reward or nobody (conclusion). The pilot that hauls 1T of cargo shouldn't get the same reward as the one who hauls 60,000T, in my opinion. There are numerous pieces of content in this game that you get locked out of if you don't enjoy doing certain things. I don't fully agree with your critique here but I respect it. Don't fret though, the way things are going you'll just be able to buy one soon for some Arx.

[@elvfrem]

One solution to that is something like "you need to haul X amount to be able to be eligible for the main reward, hauling Y amount instead (be it double or more of the threshold) rewards a special cosmetic to prove your comitment" or something along those lines. Competition is not good, especially not for new players or players who cannot commit all that time to it. So a middleground of having to meet a set quota but once you hit it, you will always get the reward without risking being "pushed down" and suddenly you cant get it anymore. That is just bad design, so the threshold can always be there but set in stone so to speak.

[@enrogae]

@@elvfrem Your model still has competition and people would complain about not being able to get the cosmetic. Which reward is the "main" reward will always be debatable. Competition isn't a bad thing in online persistent games, but I am in agreement that making the acquisition of a relatively useful and important module competitive is a bad move. I'm in agreement that the percentile basis isn't great for something like this.

[@elvfrem]

@@enrogae .. Wat? The threshold model is not a competion as its just a threshold that wont move. "Collex X, get Y" isnt a competition.
If it was "only X amount of people can get it" then its a competition. otherwise it isnt. Thats.. What competition means.
And no, competition isnt bad persay but COMMUNITY events arnt competition events. The word dont work together at ALL, and thats kind of the entire point. No other game does it like this, cause thats not what the word means.
So yeh, procentage based rewards in a ladder structure and competition is not good nor works. Just change it, its super easy.

[@enrogae]

@@elvfrem The initial complaint was about people who don't have the same amount of time to dedicate not having a chance, and that wouldn't change with a threshold, so in that way it's still essentially the same competition. If you have the time you get the thing, if you don't you don't. The competition is just more purely with time than with others (and their available time) in your model.
It's still just collect x, get y, if you have the time to collect enough within the time constraints.
Community events can still be competitive. Many games do this and have done for decades. It may not accomplish what you think it should in the community but I'm doubtful flat thresholds would either, especially with rare commodities, etc.

[@RayHorn5128088056]

Those who have FC don't need caustic cargo racks because FC takes no caustic damage, and your ship is decontaminated upon docking. For me, this is not worth the grind.

[@Astyrrean]

If you’re moving just 1-2 tons of caustic goods, then it isn’t a big deal. But if you’re moving >10 tons (for instance, you’re gathering Semi Refined Spire Minerals) it is a real issue. With that amount of caustic cargo you hatch will melt before you reach your carrier. Not to mention large scale sampling operations ….

[@trixer230]

TIme on your hands? There are so many haulling auto pilots you dont even need time on your hands lmao, all you gotta do is have a spare computer and just keep it running.

[@EclipsixGaming]

ive noticed many time that you just trashtalk the fdevs

[@fcsuper]

This video is too much exposition for a run-of-the-mill CG amongst hundreds of other CGs over the years. Do CGs tend to be too limited in terms of encouraged gameplay? Yes. Exploration CGs, Mining CGs, Combat CGs and Trucker CGs tend to be one-dimensional. The CG for unclassified artifact (whatever they were called) was a bit more interesting. Instead of discussing one particular CG, how about discuss the underlying issue that CGs tend to be too grindy and one-dimensional.
We need more interesting CGs. Like, instead of raw exploration, go discover this thing that we know is out there and bring something back an artifact from it. (FDEV kinda had something like this a while back, but framed it as a mission rather than a CG). Tiers could be tied to the number of people who succeed. Or, trucking CG should have some obvious in-game changes as materials are turned-in (like watching a megaship being build in real time at the station). Mining CG could be limited to mining a particular number of locations to force players to interact. Combat CGs could be treated more like how the game handles invasion systems with Thargoids. And have more CGs that require a variety of complex activities, such as the one for the unclassified artifacts (which included Guardian mat collection, Thargoid base incursion and crafting of Guardian artifacts, and then handing in the results to an Engineer).
This CG doesn't stand out, but whats the difference between this one and all the others in the past? Not much. I'm not going to complain about this CG. There's an overall problem with whole concept right now.

[@Astyrrean]

Several differences in fact:
A) [Most] other CGs offered a combat/hauling choice. This one does not.
B) Many other CGs offered purely cosmetic rewards. This one rewards a highly prized exclusive module.
C) Select other CGs (like the FSD one) were collaboratively in nature. This one is not.

[@xShadowXscarx]

Cheap way to get more videos and more views. You should have said all that in the first place.
That being said, I agree with you that CGs should bring the community together.