Holy shit! I remember being amazed by the video about adding exceptions to the engine 4 years ago, and now you're talking about a release in 2028. What you all are doing is truly amazing.
That is especially interesting to me because that image format supports HDR and if they can get that working with video playback, That would be really cool given how that still doesn't seem to be supported with Firefox on Windows yet.
@@SinnerK0N I don't understand that argument. Even if AVIF is better, why not support JPEG XL? They don't remove support for GIFs even though it's like the worst standard.
please, build all the tooling alongside the browser itself, that will allow for developers to build on top of your tech, like chromium does. Firefox had tried to make electron alternative and has stuff like geckoview, but it's not being used that much. If you focus on such tooling, from the beggining, maybe it will see wider adoption.
@@kreuner11 Things like libraries, similar to geckoview or webview, app building tools, like electron or embedded chromium(eg. Steam) and a proper JS engine, that has enough performance to be used as an alternative for backend.
As a GNU/linux user, I am very comfortable with links/lynx program. But I am very excited to see the project succeed. I love that your software is licensed under BSD (freedom software). Congrats of the guts of going on in this project :) At a certain point I would love learn enough c++ to contribute with some code.
Ladybird currently only implements existing web standards, rather than trying to make new ones It's discouraged to implement something in code immediately also, without first submitting a specification to the relevant body, W3C in this case, otherwise it won't get reviewed, refined, or implemented in other browsers.
One of the founding principles (or, at least, it's the second sentence in the "about Laybird" section on their home page) is to be "Web standards first approach", and since the WASM standard does not support DOM manipulation, nor should Ladybird.
@@modernkennnern I agree with what you said. But can Ladybird browser move the needle and start the standardization of this spec while also baking in support simultaneously (like most of the standards are implemented in Chrome)? I know many other important things to be done in Ladybird and implementing experimental features is a bit ask, but I'm being optimistic here.
@@tusharsnx it is unlikely since they are going to be focusing on making their browser better and right now it is in pre-alpha state, until they become fully fledged browser way after 2026, i am not sure how that can happen
Assuming this browser will have decent support for modern web extensions such as adblocking (but also other stuff like VPNs, password managers, dark reader etc.) and has decent video performance (1080p60 feels like a very comfortable minimum imo) then I'll swap in a heartbeat. Nothing against Mozilla or Firefox, but true independence from Google is growing more important by the day.
exactly, having an ecosystem of browsers all with their own rendering engine would make the web much more healthy, so personally I hope Ladybird _doesn't_ kill Firefox even if I personally move to a new browser.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx i think it would mostly take users away from firefox rather than chromium, because people rarely move away from chrome and Ladybird will become Linux of Browsers
Massive updates this month! Great to hear the proposed timeline and goals. Great idea showcasing the current state of the browser with supporters websites. Hope more like FUTO step in to support browsing the open web with an open web browser. :)
Bit disappointed that it uses Skia now, because Chrome uses that aswell, so that's a big part of the rendering process where we will now not gain any ecosystem diversity.
Yeah, the whole thing with ladybird is it's independent, things like libpng i get but once you're getting into thr browser specific parts everything should be independent
Well, technically they can build the browser using skia now and just make a drop-in replacement once they get to a state when there are no sketchy bugs requiring restart every once in a while
It's still a monumental task even with Skia. Creating a good graphics library from scratch is a pretty difficult task as it is. What they should probably do is replace it with a new library after the browser matures and enters alpha/beta stage.
A bit late to this but I'm certainly looking forward to the more detailed timeline coming out, the biggest appeal to this browser for me has to be the process of how it is made in and of itself and how one goes about competing in terms of functionality with the likes of Chromium based applications and Firefox. Great work so far, please do keep it up.
i'm so excited for the future of LadyBird. Recently I've been losing confidence in Firefox to provide enough browser diversity. And 100% wasm test coverage already? damn!
Isn't Skia the library Google wrote for Chrome? That doesn't sound like a good idea for engine independence. Can you elaborate on that decision somewhere (blog post or next video or whatever)?
Can that scare the fact from it's done for Google some (skia), but as are some general-use and open source, google can't be affect and your same can be confirm check the code from skia.
As soon as uBo or similar is available I’ll give it a go 👍🏻 internet is completely UNUSABLE without ad blocking (commenting before watching, might have already been addressed!)
Don't know what you're compiling it on but it took about 10 hours on my 2 core 2GHz laptop with a spinning rust disc. Looks good so far. There's a long way to go though. 👍
Interesting project, Ty for doing this. I do think it is needed to broaden the market a bit and not be another copy cat or cash grabber. This is the stuff i love backing. Keep up the good work and ideas i will happily follow this project.
This is great, I just sincerely hope that the project continues on this path and not end up like numerous others that get "absorbed" into Bigtech and the evils out there. "Give it away for free forever" - hopefully also means sticking with the permissive licensing, which ensures it remains truly free in all senses, and not at some point in the future changing over to the controlling GPhelL license... How will you ensure that it remains "truly independent" if it is becoming dependent on (bloated?) 3rd party libraries already? Will it be truly cross platform - including native Windows support, and not only WSL, nor only compatible with the latest Windows version exclusively? Edit: I am really not being attacking or mean, I want Ladybird to be a huge success... and to truly be liberating from the "options" we have available right now! We need it! And we need it to fix all that is wrong with the existing bloated junk. And... a vertical tab tree structure (maybe somewhat similar to the SideBery Ffox plugin) would be nice 😉
BSD is very permissive. it also permits companies to just pick up from where you left off in a proprietary software without giving back. it's fine I guess for an OS, where the company can just make any OS the way they want to, but with a browser there's a proper spec and even with chromium being open source, google is still doing a lot of bs. if they would just make everyone use a proprietary software and without showing anyone how anything works, I guarantee you the internet would be a lot worse
@@FlanPoirot It is certainly true that companies *could* be parasites and benefit from permissively licensed code/projects and not give back, but at least some of them do, as with Sony and Netflix contributing / giving back to FreeBSD... GPL is definitely not about the benefit of the community as is claimed... it is about control and tons of restrictions. You can not even learn from GPL code and then create your own software based on what you learned, because it will be seen as a "derivative work" and you will be required to release your work under the GPL license as well. Permissive licenses allow people to learn and build on the base of existing "foundation" code. Often independent developers do not have the funds to pay for resources required to get projects going and headed towards success (even though they might have the most wonderful ideas for amazing software to build), including not having the expertise in some areas of software development, nor funds to hire developers who do, to work with them on their project... this is where they could use some existing code / algorithms - maybe from multiple projects, or maybe just study the existing code and then create their own, improved versions... which, again, would AFAIK not be allowed with GPL code, as the newly created project would then be "derivative work". If you truly want to "give back" and do what is best for the community, then do not place restrictions on how they may use the code / libraries / frameworks / ... that you create. Or at least release it under a dual license, which gives the option to use what you created as a base for new projects and/or for learning from. If not, just keep it closed source and do not pretend that you are making it "available for everyone". Well that is how I see it.
Permissive licenses promote creativity and greater success. You may also find it easier to convince experienced developers to join your project if it does not have copyleft restrictions, and they therefore know that it is possible to build a successful commercial project from it. And another concern that I see with copyleft (especially "far left", e.g. GPL) is if you get a few devs joining the project and contributing lots of time, efforts, knowledge and skills to create a really good piece of software, and then one fine day the original creator and copyright owner of the project decides to be greedy and change the license from GPL to closed source proprietary software... and take all the work that everyone else did on it already, to sell the software and make money, after he maybe added a few more "killer features"... would the other contributors, who put so much into the project then not be extremely exploited and left with nothing other than the existing GPL licensed, restricted project... whereas if this happened with a permissively licensed project, those devs could then also take the existing code and work further on it to create their own commercial software which could compete with the greedy original creator, and they would get compensation for all of their time and efforts in building it up to what it had become...? The GPL project devs could not do that... due to the restrictive and controlling nature of the GPL license.
@@neelsb7889 what? if ur code is copyleft, the derived work also has to be. if I make my program GPL I can't just run with it, I'm forced to always give the source code to whoever asks for it even if the code is not public on github/gitlab or whatever. not doing this means non compliance with the terms of the license. the whole point of GPL is that no one can EVER close source it. And GPL does not really mean not being able to commercialize since the license is not anti-business. if u can make an open source permissive license software commercial, u can do the same with GPL but u can make a case for the fact that if u can compile from source at all a lot of people would rather not pay for it, especially if what you're offering is just the software as is and not a service of sorts (like bitwarden being open source but making money on their own official instance with pro features) also I'm not anti permissive licenses, for libraries I think permissive licenses make more sense, as u don't want a proprietary software to be restricted cause they used ur library. but for standalone programs I prefer GPL unless I have a really good reason not to
Love this project, I've been following it since the very beginning and I'm so proud of how far it has come ❤ PD: I just need to say that I dislike the soulless logo and website... I know it was probably github's ex ceo's idea but it's just so distasteful.
From the demo you showcased, it seemed like it is ready for use by people haha Of course there are things missing still and needs to be implemented (you mentioned variable fonts for an example), but I remain very interested in seeing how this project evolves over time Although I didn't use C++ much outside of university classes (and don't feel very connected to it), I would love to contribute to the project someday :)
Are you going to adopt an internal project model? I'd imagine as the team grows and you try to predict schedule it will get hard to just "hack away" and meet your goals. But, it would be sad to see "corporate" creep in. I still remember the very first browser hacking video, so excited to use it some day soon!
seems like this video is getting picked up by the algorithm, i’m sorry for the influx of crappy comments y’all are about to get lol. i would sign up for your email list but i don’t check mine unless i’m looking for important stuff. i did subscribe here on youtube though so please keep doing update videos in the future!!
i hope, that when it comes to extension support, you will allow both firefox and chromium flavours of webext and maybe even a separate, custom extentions with more power over the browser itself
You are thinking it wrong, open source purists would never be on windows in the first place. The market for this kind of app is Linux, Mac OS is Unix based so they may as well port it since it’s easy.
@@-Blue-_ Friend, the project nor launched. Not them demand things that for now not be priority. The priority is that browser arrive to being moderately stable.
I’m sorry to say that but the only thing I care is chrome extensions support. That’s why Edge is ahead of the game (yeah I know it’s not correct to compare it here).😊
What's wrong with a year? It's just about getting it feature complete in the meantime and remove all blocking bugs. But I mean, they are already pretty far regarding implementations of the core features. Question is probably more if they plan to add convient features to the required features, like Add-Ons, Sync, Password Manager etc.
@@RubenKelevra password managers dont belong inside the browser. They should support external password managers like kwallet. For example chrome password manager is very easily hacked. kwallet supports secret service and whatnot. likewise with sync. syncing data is not a browser task. browser should store plain text settings in ~/.config/ladybird so a sync manager can do this task. (personally i like to use git for this, but its painful)
@@RubenKelevra exactly why browsers should not have a built in password manager, people use different things, kwallet was an example password manager to support. Use your brain for once.
@@andrewkaster4033 Right that is cool, but FUTO grants are based on the funds provided by a bored billionaire. Its not a replicable business model. It would cool to see a FOSS project sustain itself.
@@andrewkaster4033 My reply got deleted. I would like to see a FOSS project sort out funding long term. FUTO grants are giving out money from a billionaire. It in itself is not a sustainable business model.
@@andrewkaster4033 Wow. My reply has been deleted twice now. I want to see Ladybird find a sustainable FOSS business model. Apparently if you mention FUTO is grants from a billionaire you get deleted.
Hey, have the spectacles got bigger or have you become thinner? Or is it just the lighting and camera angles? Also, what about SerenityOS monthly videos? Are they still happening?
As much as we want this to be the case, the modern internet would crumble if that were to happen today. Think of the deadlinks in forums when Google killed goo.gl but at an even massive scale. This is all the more reason we need alternatives that aren't muddied with corporate profits in mind
Here is a few questions 1. What is the search engine? İs it built from scrath? Or a third party cookie blocker like DuckDuckGo? 2. What is the customazability? İs it high? Like could i turn it into something similar to the things people create in r/unixporn 3. is there ARM compatibility? For phones mostly but since you told that there will be a test version for Macbook's i think that this question is kind of answered already 4. Will there be WebRTC? And lastly 5. Will the project be TRULY free? This project is Ladybird is basically Firefox interms of the motivation but Firefox nowdays is slowly getting bad beacuse of their shady deals behind the scenes
Do you plan to create an Android Browser with this engine as well, given that the most end user devices out there run Android? I think that's more important than Windows IMHO.
im hoping this will try to be competitive with chrome and firefox, both browsers are horrible nowadays, we need a new private browsers desperately. i hope ladybird will fill that role. Keep up the good work.
@@-Blue-_ You clearly didn't even watch the beginning of the video. This project aims to go against monopolistic nature of big tech and increase diversity. You haven't realized it but you just proved that operating systems just like browsers are in an unhealthy place where one company rules above the others. facepalm
@@detto1998 so why they are making for macOS ?? apple is also a corporate company they also have anti consumer practices ?? Your argument is just doesn't work, if they want to succeed make a browser for other 75% of people just like me who use windows this is why I don't like this type of companies, forget chromium i don't think they can compete with firefox also
2 месяца назад
Are you building on chromium, webkit, or are you creating own engine? Would it support plugins? Which platforms are you plannig to ship to?
Engine your own, the only thing it shares with the rest of the engines (such as Firefox Engine, Safari Engine and Chromium Engine) are some general-use libraries. Can that scare the fact from it's done for Google some (skia), but as are some general-use and open source, google can't be affect and your same can be confirm check the code from skia.
How do you plan to stay afloat and thrive if you don't want to monetize your users in any way? It's bright clear that if your plans is to just rely on donations things won't go far
Probably not hard to get financial support from other organizations if they have well-working real alternative browser. Mozilla gives maybe 2-3% of its finances for developing Firefox, money goes to "social projects."
@@21stchill18 i have seen this story countless times in countless businesses: the starting point is pure, with a vision, with the objective of making the world a better place. But then you have to face reality , and the reality is taht we live in a capitalistic world. Does this mean that you have to sell the soul to the devil? Absolutely no! but money is an essential part of everything in our society and can't br ignored. Balance is the key!
@@Geffry993 I think I agree with your point. I feel like we should be more optimistic about the future as long as attempts are being made. Personally I don't mind personalized ads but records have shown that ads are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to using someone's data.
Do you really think that you'll resist the temptation of infinite cash from selling data if this project reaches maturity? Sponsor money won't last forever and someone's gotta maintain the thing :D
Do you have any rules/principals on selecting the sponsors? Or any capitalist that pays is welcomed, even if they are directly or indirectly harming the environment and minorities?
Now for this point not important the damage environment, unfortunately. All company's (and persons) somehow make damage without matter nothing. Nor should matter you, total the death humans is inevitable.
"Never monetize users in any way" - that's a fairytale. With time and growing popularity, the board will be changed, and the company structure will be changed to "for profit.", company will be sold to someone like Google.
How would you "sell" a non-profit? How will the new owners manage to reorganize it to be for profit, considering that it's been permanently registered as a 501(c)(3), and restricted to a single activity in a legally-binding manner? Why would Andreas Kling and Chris allow for that happen if it somehow does?
I don't think demoralizing the idea from the beginning is a good idea. The promises are great, it's opensource and it's against a monopoly. Let them cook.
Would be cool to add a Q&A at the end of each video and answer the 3 most upvoted comments with a question on the last video :)
reddit lingo
Holy shit!
I remember being amazed by the video about adding exceptions to the engine 4 years ago, and now you're talking about a release in 2028. What you all are doing is truly amazing.
I have no idea why RUclips recommended this video to me, but I'm glad it did
Ladybird supports JPEG XL?! It's over for Google. They've already lost.
Yeah I'm sorry. I'm kind of responsible 😅
That is especially interesting to me because that image format supports HDR and if they can get that working with video playback, That would be really cool given how that still doesn't seem to be supported with Firefox on Windows yet.
Chromium had JPEG XL support but they removed it in 2022 because they think AVIF is better for some reason
@@SoftwareSlicer Neither in chromium 💀.
@@SinnerK0N I don't understand that argument. Even if AVIF is better, why not support JPEG XL? They don't remove support for GIFs even though it's like the worst standard.
please, build all the tooling alongside the browser itself, that will allow for developers to build on top of your tech, like chromium does. Firefox had tried to make electron alternative and has stuff like geckoview, but it's not being used that much. If you focus on such tooling, from the beggining, maybe it will see wider adoption.
Can you explain what you mean by tooling in this case? Everything needed to build and use the LibWeb is contained in the repository
He means developer tools just like chrome. Help you when working with web development work.
Fiefox has devtools so he's not refering to that@@RockyBell. I think that he refers about embeding, kind of
@@RockyBell There are dev tools in the browser already, but he's talking also about Electron and such, so I'm not sure
@@kreuner11 Things like libraries, similar to geckoview or webview, app building tools, like electron or embedded chromium(eg. Steam) and a proper JS engine, that has enough performance to be used as an alternative for backend.
As a GNU/linux user, I am very comfortable with links/lynx program.
But I am very excited to see the project succeed. I love that your software is licensed under BSD (freedom software).
Congrats of the guts of going on in this project :)
At a certain point I would love learn enough c++ to contribute with some code.
If this engine becomes the first one to support Dom manipulation through wasm, it'll be ground breaking (and a USP).
Ladybird currently only implements existing web standards, rather than trying to make new ones
It's discouraged to implement something in code immediately also, without first submitting a specification to the relevant body, W3C in this case, otherwise it won't get reviewed, refined, or implemented in other browsers.
One of the founding principles (or, at least, it's the second sentence in the "about Laybird" section on their home page) is to be "Web standards first approach", and since the WASM standard does not support DOM manipulation, nor should Ladybird.
@@modernkennnern I agree with what you said. But can Ladybird browser move the needle and start the standardization of this spec while also baking in support simultaneously (like most of the standards are implemented in Chrome)?
I know many other important things to be done in Ladybird and implementing experimental features is a bit ask, but I'm being optimistic here.
@@tusharsnx it is unlikely since they are going to be focusing on making their browser better and right now it is in pre-alpha state, until they become fully fledged browser way after 2026, i am not sure how that can happen
Assuming this browser will have decent support for modern web extensions such as adblocking (but also other stuff like VPNs, password managers, dark reader etc.) and has decent video performance (1080p60 feels like a very comfortable minimum imo) then I'll swap in a heartbeat. Nothing against Mozilla or Firefox, but true independence from Google is growing more important by the day.
exactly, having an ecosystem of browsers all with their own rendering engine would make the web much more healthy, so personally I hope Ladybird _doesn't_ kill Firefox even if I personally move to a new browser.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx i think it would mostly take users away from firefox rather than chromium, because people rarely move away from chrome and Ladybird will become Linux of Browsers
Bright future. Aggressively timelines but I think this won’t be too far off
Yes. I'm so excited!!
the real OSS browser, thank you Ladybird community
Massive updates this month! Great to hear the proposed timeline and goals. Great idea showcasing the current state of the browser with supporters websites. Hope more like FUTO step in to support browsing the open web with an open web browser. :)
I wish you guys the best of luck possible, the world is in dire need of a TRULY independent browser
Great stuff guys! Love what you're doing, can't wait to use it!
Huge support for Ladybird. It’s about time.
Gotta say I donated to y'all hope you guys do really good work. I'm rooting for you!
There's FUTO ! 3:50
love that the roadmap has “daily driver for developers” on the alpha. dogfooding as early as possible can only help the project. :)
Really really nice work, I was blown away when I saw the first demo page!
Bit disappointed that it uses Skia now, because Chrome uses that aswell, so that's a big part of the rendering process where we will now not gain any ecosystem diversity.
Yeah, the whole thing with ladybird is it's independent, things like libpng i get but once you're getting into thr browser specific parts everything should be independent
Well, technically they can build the browser using skia now and just make a drop-in replacement once they get to a state when there are no sketchy bugs requiring restart every once in a while
@@KSPAtlas No, it isn't anymore
It's still a monumental task even with Skia. Creating a good graphics library from scratch is a pretty difficult task as it is. What they should probably do is replace it with a new library after the browser matures and enters alpha/beta stage.
@@randomname3566 Or they could have used literally any other graphics library; any one that isn't used by a major browser engine.
A bit late to this but I'm certainly looking forward to the more detailed timeline coming out, the biggest appeal to this browser for me has to be the process of how it is made in and of itself and how one goes about competing in terms of functionality with the likes of Chromium based applications and Firefox. Great work so far, please do keep it up.
just came across this by accident and im glad i did, we need more competition in the browser also open source is great for everyone
i'm so excited for the future of LadyBird. Recently I've been losing confidence in Firefox to provide enough browser diversity. And 100% wasm test coverage already? damn!
Currently in no position to Donate but in future I will support . World needs more browser engines . Wishing good luck to the Ladybird team.
Keep these coming! Loading the sponsors' websites was such a good way to show off the project
Isn't Skia the library Google wrote for Chrome? That doesn't sound like a good idea for engine independence. Can you elaborate on that decision somewhere (blog post or next video or whatever)?
Apparently Google had the company from 2005-2008 where they open source the project afterwards
Google purchased Skia's parent company, and it's a generic graphics rendering framework that's not tied to any specific web engine
Can that scare the fact from it's done for Google some (skia), but as are some general-use and open source, google can't be affect and your same can be confirm check the code from skia.
These are fantastic news! 🎉 A new channel and still I ask for live-coding videos, please. 😊 I really miss those.
As soon as uBo or similar is available I’ll give it a go 👍🏻 internet is completely UNUSABLE without ad blocking (commenting before watching, might have already been addressed!)
There's no JavaScript yet so you won't be seeing any ads lol
Looking forward to the update! :)
So excited to hear about your progress! :-D
I absolutely love this. Hope the absolute best for all of you
Exciting times for ladybird!
Super excited to start helping with some web platform test fixes! Super cool project, guys.
Took me about 10 minutes to realise your shirt matches the logo colours
I just built the browser from source, and it works surprisingly well, honestly. Scrolling is very laggy, but generally speaking it seems to work.
Surely some companies or benefactors see how impactful this could be for the wider digital market.
I am looking forward to build ladybird as soon as I find the time for it
Don't know what you're compiling it on but it took about 10 hours on my 2 core 2GHz laptop with a spinning rust disc.
Looks good so far. There's a long way to go though. 👍
Interesting project, Ty for doing this. I do think it is needed to broaden the market a bit and not be another copy cat or cash grabber. This is the stuff i love backing. Keep up the good work and ideas i will happily follow this project.
This is great, I just sincerely hope that the project continues on this path and not end up like numerous others that get "absorbed" into Bigtech and the evils out there. "Give it away for free forever" - hopefully also means sticking with the permissive licensing, which ensures it remains truly free in all senses, and not at some point in the future changing over to the controlling GPhelL license... How will you ensure that it remains "truly independent" if it is becoming dependent on (bloated?) 3rd party libraries already? Will it be truly cross platform - including native Windows support, and not only WSL, nor only compatible with the latest Windows version exclusively?
Edit: I am really not being attacking or mean, I want Ladybird to be a huge success... and to truly be liberating from the "options" we have available right now! We need it! And we need it to fix all that is wrong with the existing bloated junk. And... a vertical tab tree structure (maybe somewhat similar to the SideBery Ffox plugin) would be nice 😉
BSD is very permissive. it also permits companies to just pick up from where you left off in a proprietary software without giving back. it's fine I guess for an OS, where the company can just make any OS the way they want to, but with a browser there's a proper spec and even with chromium being open source, google is still doing a lot of bs. if they would just make everyone use a proprietary software and without showing anyone how anything works, I guarantee you the internet would be a lot worse
@@FlanPoirot It is certainly true that companies *could* be parasites and benefit from permissively licensed code/projects and not give back, but at least some of them do, as with Sony and Netflix contributing / giving back to FreeBSD...
GPL is definitely not about the benefit of the community as is claimed... it is about control and tons of restrictions. You can not even learn from GPL code and then create your own software based on what you learned, because it will be seen as a "derivative work" and you will be required to release your work under the GPL license as well. Permissive licenses allow people to learn and build on the base of existing "foundation" code. Often independent developers do not have the funds to pay for resources required to get projects going and headed towards success (even though they might have the most wonderful ideas for amazing software to build), including not having the expertise in some areas of software development, nor funds to hire developers who do, to work with them on their project... this is where they could use some existing code / algorithms - maybe from multiple projects, or maybe just study the existing code and then create their own, improved versions... which, again, would AFAIK not be allowed with GPL code, as the newly created project would then be "derivative work".
If you truly want to "give back" and do what is best for the community, then do not place restrictions on how they may use the code / libraries / frameworks / ... that you create. Or at least release it under a dual license, which gives the option to use what you created as a base for new projects and/or for learning from. If not, just keep it closed source and do not pretend that you are making it "available for everyone". Well that is how I see it.
Permissive licenses promote creativity and greater success. You may also find it easier to convince experienced developers to join your project if it does not have copyleft restrictions, and they therefore know that it is possible to build a successful commercial project from it.
And another concern that I see with copyleft (especially "far left", e.g. GPL) is if you get a few devs joining the project and contributing lots of time, efforts, knowledge and skills to create a really good piece of software, and then one fine day the original creator and copyright owner of the project decides to be greedy and change the license from GPL to closed source proprietary software... and take all the work that everyone else did on it already, to sell the software and make money, after he maybe added a few more "killer features"... would the other contributors, who put so much into the project then not be extremely exploited and left with nothing other than the existing GPL licensed, restricted project... whereas if this happened with a permissively licensed project, those devs could then also take the existing code and work further on it to create their own commercial software which could compete with the greedy original creator, and they would get compensation for all of their time and efforts in building it up to what it had become...? The GPL project devs could not do that... due to the restrictive and controlling nature of the GPL license.
@@neelsb7889 what? if ur code is copyleft, the derived work also has to be. if I make my program GPL I can't just run with it, I'm forced to always give the source code to whoever asks for it even if the code is not public on github/gitlab or whatever. not doing this means non compliance with the terms of the license.
the whole point of GPL is that no one can EVER close source it. And GPL does not really mean not being able to commercialize since the license is not anti-business. if u can make an open source permissive license software commercial, u can do the same with GPL
but u can make a case for the fact that if u can compile from source at all a lot of people would rather not pay for it, especially if what you're offering is just the software as is and not a service of sorts (like bitwarden being open source but making money on their own official instance with pro features)
also I'm not anti permissive licenses, for libraries I think permissive licenses make more sense, as u don't want a proprietary software to be restricted cause they used ur library. but for standalone programs I prefer GPL unless I have a really good reason not to
Don't call anything bloated junk when you haven't written a line of low level code you pseud, prs are welcome!
Nice progress ❤
Love this project, I've been following it since the very beginning and I'm so proud of how far it has come ❤
PD: I just need to say that I dislike the soulless logo and website... I know it was probably github's ex ceo's idea but it's just so distasteful.
How many years until I can watch RUclips videos with Ladybird? :P
Is this presentation created using Keynote? Tack för allt du gör Andreas och alla involverade!
Takk for at du gjør dette ❤
Really cool project! Looking forward to see what it will end up as in the future!
From the demo you showcased, it seemed like it is ready for use by people haha
Of course there are things missing still and needs to be implemented (you mentioned variable fonts for an example), but I remain very interested in seeing how this project evolves over time
Although I didn't use C++ much outside of university classes (and don't feel very connected to it), I would love to contribute to the project someday :)
ok sound great but there is some reason for People to not entirely switch to ladybird browser that one thing is called DRM
no DRM is a good thing.
🏴☠️
This browser is gonna go crazy
Proud of you, Andreas!
This has the potential to finally give me the option to switch away from Brave or Firefox
GOD SPEED CRUSHING CHROMIUM!!!
great overview keep it up excited about your project
You’re so cool! Hope for a bright future for Ladybird
Love the project! I'll definitely be daily driving the alpha
Are you going to adopt an internal project model? I'd imagine as the team grows and you try to predict schedule it will get hard to just "hack away" and meet your goals. But, it would be sad to see "corporate" creep in.
I still remember the very first browser hacking video, so excited to use it some day soon!
Dont... Dont give me hope... But I believe.
Thank you for creating Ladybird
seems like this video is getting picked up by the algorithm, i’m sorry for the influx of crappy comments y’all are about to get lol. i would sign up for your email list but i don’t check mine unless i’m looking for important stuff. i did subscribe here on youtube though so please keep doing update videos in the future!!
I am a security researcher, and want a browser engine that compiles in under an hour and can teach me about browser internals.
Really excited for this!
i hope, that when it comes to extension support, you will allow both firefox and chromium flavours of webext and maybe even a separate, custom extentions with more power over the browser itself
I hope you put absolute no popup. Because in chrome or firefox no matter what I extension I used or whatever tweaks i do there is still pop up.
Linux and macOS, and no Windows, I see. That leaves out substantial amount of people...
You are thinking it wrong, open source purists would never be on windows in the first place. The market for this kind of app is Linux, Mac OS is Unix based so they may as well port it since it’s easy.
It won't support windows for now. Look at the website's FAQ
@@Just-aGuystill a trash move
@@PanosPitsiand macOS is open source 😂😂🤡🤡
@@-Blue-_ Friend, the project nor launched. Not them demand things that for now not be priority.
The priority is that browser arrive to being moderately stable.
I’m sorry to say that but the only thing I care is chrome extensions support. That’s why Edge is ahead of the game (yeah I know it’s not correct to compare it here).😊
Just one year Alpha -> Beta? I believe that'll likely change
What's wrong with a year? It's just about getting it feature complete in the meantime and remove all blocking bugs.
But I mean, they are already pretty far regarding implementations of the core features.
Question is probably more if they plan to add convient features to the required features, like Add-Ons, Sync, Password Manager etc.
@@RubenKelevra password managers dont belong inside the browser. They should support external password managers like kwallet. For example chrome password manager is very easily hacked. kwallet supports secret service and whatnot. likewise with sync. syncing data is not a browser task. browser should store plain text settings in ~/.config/ladybird so a sync manager can do this task. (personally i like to use git for this, but its painful)
@@turtlefrog369 that's your personal opinion. Other people have other options. Please keep in mind that the other people are more than you. Thanks.
@@RubenKelevra exactly why browsers should not have a built in password manager, people use different things, kwallet was an example password manager to support. Use your brain for once.
Yes, but it's important to remember it's 2 years of pre-alpha before the alpha
Will uBlock Origin be supported?
BSD allows commercialization, do you plan to use that in the future to pay developers a salary?
The non-profit is employing 6 full-time engineers as of today.
@@andrewkaster4033 Right that is cool, but FUTO grants are based on the funds provided by a bored billionaire. Its not a replicable business model. It would cool to see a FOSS project sustain itself.
@@andrewkaster4033 My reply got deleted. I would like to see a FOSS project sort out funding long term. FUTO grants are giving out money from a billionaire. It in itself is not a sustainable business model.
@@andrewkaster4033 Wow. My reply has been deleted twice now. I want to see Ladybird find a sustainable FOSS business model.
Apparently if you mention FUTO is grants from a billionaire you get deleted.
hats off to you guys
If your priority is not windows then i am out sorry, i am not going to use this browser, seems like some companies are doing this Intentionally
There are plans, but no devs interested in it yet, and the few usually give up.
Same here. No Windows => not interested. It can be the most amazing browser ever. Not going to change OS for a browser.
Hey, have the spectacles got bigger or have you become thinner? Or is it just the lighting and camera angles?
Also, what about SerenityOS monthly videos? Are they still happening?
Kling has abandoned SerenityOS to fully focus on Ladybird. Its still being developed but its a community run independent project now
You guys got this
Google going brancrupt is imminent.
As much as we want this to be the case, the modern internet would crumble if that were to happen today. Think of the deadlinks in forums when Google killed goo.gl but at an even massive scale.
This is all the more reason we need alternatives that aren't muddied with corporate profits in mind
Cope
No
Here is a few questions
1. What is the search engine?
İs it built from scrath? Or a third party cookie blocker like DuckDuckGo?
2. What is the customazability? İs it high? Like could i turn it into something similar to the things people create in r/unixporn
3. is there ARM compatibility? For phones mostly but since you told that there will be a test version for Macbook's i think that this question is kind of answered already
4. Will there be WebRTC?
And lastly
5. Will the project be TRULY free? This project is Ladybird is basically Firefox interms of the motivation but Firefox nowdays is slowly getting bad beacuse of their shady deals behind the scenes
did u look into the project like just for a single minute
@@CrisCheese_ Nuh uh
Do you plan to create an Android Browser with this engine as well, given that the most end user devices out there run Android?
I think that's more important than Windows IMHO.
There's an Android prototype already in the repo, but IIRC it's not in great shape right now.
Why the logo looks like Meta
im hoping this will try to be competitive with chrome and firefox, both browsers are horrible nowadays, we need a new private browsers desperately. i hope ladybird will fill that role. Keep up the good work.
Without the support of windows 😂😂😂 good luck
@@-Blue-_ There are plans, but no devs interested in it yet, and the few usually give up,
i think this is gonna be big
What are the odds of having native HTMX?
One Bowser to rule them all.
Bowser?
@@nicodm6461 From mario
Yeah and only support Linux and macOS what about others 75% of people who use windows 😂😂😂seems like a bad decision by this company @@detto1998
@@-Blue-_ You clearly didn't even watch the beginning of the video. This project aims to go against monopolistic nature of big tech and increase diversity. You haven't realized it but you just proved that operating systems just like browsers are in an unhealthy place where one company rules above the others. facepalm
@@detto1998 so why they are making for macOS ?? apple is also a corporate company they also have anti consumer practices ?? Your argument is just doesn't work, if they want to succeed make a browser for other 75% of people just like me who use windows this is why I don't like this type of companies, forget chromium i don't think they can compete with firefox also
Are you building on chromium, webkit, or are you creating own engine? Would it support plugins? Which platforms are you plannig to ship to?
Engine your own, the only thing it shares with the rest of the engines (such as Firefox Engine, Safari Engine and Chromium Engine) are some general-use libraries.
Can that scare the fact from it's done for Google some (skia), but as are some general-use and open source, google can't be affect and your same can be confirm check the code from skia.
I hope it will run on Risc-V cpu because it is my daily driver PC.
why does it look like meta's logo
❤❤❤❤
Is Ladybird going to work on SerenityOS?
You've only mentioned MacOS and Linux.
I guess it eventually will be available as a port, if not already.
No, support for it was dropped
@@hampus23 That sucks a lot :/
@@espertalhao041 Yes it is currently still in the SerenityOS codebase, and is semi-regularly synced with the main github repo
@@MarcinKralka It is available as a core application
Honestly, how are you expecting this project to sustain itself in long term without monetizing?
Plenty of healthy and successful open-source non-commercial projects out there in the world.
Sounds amazing
looks very good!
How do you plan to stay afloat and thrive if you don't want to monetize your users in any way? It's bright clear that if your plans is to just rely on donations things won't go far
Almost all of the developers will contribute financially, with what they can, especially when it comes to having a google-free² life.
Probably not hard to get financial support from other organizations if they have well-working real alternative browser. Mozilla gives maybe 2-3% of its finances for developing Firefox, money goes to "social projects."
@@21stchill18 i have seen this story countless times in countless businesses: the starting point is pure, with a vision, with the objective of making the world a better place. But then you have to face reality , and the reality is taht we live in a capitalistic world. Does this mean that you have to sell the soul to the devil? Absolutely no! but money is an essential part of everything in our society and can't br ignored. Balance is the key!
@@Geffry993 I think I agree with your point. I feel like we should be more optimistic about the future as long as attempts are being made. Personally I don't mind personalized ads but records have shown that ads are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to using someone's data.
Do you really think that you'll resist the temptation of infinite cash from selling data if this project reaches maturity? Sponsor money won't last forever and someone's gotta maintain the thing :D
There's tons of non profit projects that get funding from donations alone. See KDE for example or Thunderbird
Do you have any rules/principals on selecting the sponsors? Or any capitalist that pays is welcomed, even if they are directly or indirectly harming the environment and minorities?
Yeah, they are welcome, but why would a capitalist sponsor an anti-ad industry project?
Now for this point not important the damage environment, unfortunately. All company's (and persons) somehow make damage without matter nothing.
Nor should matter you, total the death humans is inevitable.
👍
Can we get a PDF for the slides in these videos please
What about Publisher's Clearing House? Can you get that PCH as a sponsor too?
Packet Clearing House
But please don't make it like macos design wise
"Never monetize users in any way" - that's a fairytale. With time and growing popularity, the board will be changed, and the company structure will be changed to "for profit.", company will be sold to someone like Google.
How would you "sell" a non-profit? How will the new owners manage to reorganize it to be for profit, considering that it's been permanently registered as a 501(c)(3), and restricted to a single activity in a legally-binding manner? Why would Andreas Kling and Chris allow for that happen if it somehow does?
I don't think demoralizing the idea from the beginning is a good idea. The promises are great, it's opensource and it's against a monopoly. Let them cook.
I want to be part of this project
No windows support?
Edit : or android?
Nope. Without windows or android support (through mingw and co) I am not sure if scrapping is a good idea at all
just amazing
So no plans to support Windows? Why?
There are plans, but no devs interested in it yet, and the few usually give up,
@@kreuner11 Well, let's hope someone picks it up once it's in beta or some such.
there’s a little white dot on the top right of the screen 😭
Green dot for macos recording
That null page brings firefox to its knees lmao