9mm titegroup load development failure
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2024
- Today is day 2 of load development for the 9mm titegroup and 115 Seirra bullet load. I am done with titegroup for this bullet. My next powder I am going to try is going to be Unique. Please leave comments I am new to loading the 9mm. Thanks for watching Please subscribe.
Disclaimer: All shooting is done on a private range in a safe manner. Use. load data only from a manufacture resource. Do not do this at home
Not sure what it means to you, but my stuff all says 4.2 to 4.5 being around maximum for titegroup. I use a Lot of titegroup and it's finicky stuff. Shoots damn good no matter where I settle at, but I'm a little loath to play past the top.
I shoot .3575 bullets in my 9mms so I abandoned factory load data for trial and error. Good video as always.
Thanks
Just my thoughts. The unexpected high velocities versus powder charge would be from the bullet seating being too deep in the case, resulting in increased pressure due to the reduction in case volume. This could also result in increased "bullet jump" before engaging the rifling of the barrel...which might help explain the widely varying accuracy between pistols, as chamber dimensions can vary. Try loading some with OAL increased a few thousandths, checking velocity changes, accuracy, and functionality. I enjoy your videos...keep 'em coming.
I might add, I love Tite-group. It meters so well in my powder throws, never varying even a tenth of a grain between charges. Bullseye, red dot, and 231 come close. I seldom use Unique any more except for magnum loads, then I measure precise loads using a powder trickler and scales.
Thanks for both of your comments. This is where a guy could drive yourself nuts. I have a fried that uses this same bullet and the same OAL. I just feel like this is not the powder bullet combo. I don't love Unique but I have 10 pounds of it. I am going to do some test loads with the unique and if that doesn't work maybe go back to the titegroup using cast bullet data. IF you like agriculture content you might like my other channel 10 cow ranch. I need all the subs I can get haha. Thank you in advance @@dennisbrummett3047
@@chrisevansgunshorsesranchi699 Just subscribed to 10 Cow Ranch. It's good to see new folks showing up with homestead type channels. Keep up the good work.
Back in the 90s, I developed a warm load with a 115gr Berger plated bullet and Unique. Was 100٪ reliable & accurate in all my 9mms and my friend's Rugers.
So I remanufactured 100k rounds for sale in the shop. Started having complaints they wouldn't chamber in some Glocks, CZ75 clones, and 9mm IMI. I refunded all those customers. What a pain.
Ended up using the generic Winchester 115gr hollow point in the next batch. Still an inexpensive projectile at the time. But zero returns. And the hollow point worked well in gel at 1300fps. 🤠
Thanks for the great comment. I haven't had great accuracy from the Berry's. I have heard they need to be near max for the best accuracy.I have been some more videos on the load development for the 9 mm and the Seirra JHP bullet. I have been staying under 1200 FPS do you think I need to speed up?
I also have two Taurus G2C's and a GX4 and I also load a 115gr. bullet in front of 4.7gr of Tight group and I get excellent accuracy out of mine. No access to a chrono, and they do feel pretty hot, but no issues with them showing any signs of pressure that I can detect.
I love titegroup
Listening to the sound when you shoot it sounds fine a good crack followed by Super Sonic noise
Great video with Sunday breakfast,going to the farm to shoot now 🙂🥓
Have fun shooting Thanks for watching You might like my farm channel. 10 cow ranch. I need all the subs I can get hah Thanks for your great support
I've been doing 3.9 gr of Titegroup with a 115gr with a plated Berry's bullet. They have been 100% reliable, with velocity average at 1050 fps. I've used Unique a bit, it works just fine, but seems to burn dirty compared to titegroup.
I use a lot of titegroup. I bought several pounds of unique. Thought the 9’s would be a good fit. Thanks for watching
increase OAL a few thousandths at a time, has a lot of influence on accuracy . l love titegroup it is my go to powder for 9mm, 44mag and 45acp.
Thanks for the comment I too like titegroup for several different calibers. I have switched to Unique for the 9mm project. I am having pretty good success.
I like CFE pistol in autos and Titegroup in revolvers. I think that your bullet ogive Carries too far forward on that hollow point for you to get your seating depth where it jives with the load data. Titegroup shoots well in my 1911 but so does CFE pistol. If it were “me”, I would back that powder charge down to the lead load velocities and give it a try. I shoot 115 grain Hornady action pistol bullets with 4.2 grains of Titegroup and they shoot great and are around 1135 fps and cycle great with good accuracy in my Glock17 and my CZ 75. Titegroup is a.fast burning, non position sensitive powder.I don’t see anyway you can cause a pressure spike with a lighter load. I think the worst that can happen is a squib. I would NEVER reduce a slow burning powder load however.
It good to hear from you Boyd I haven't talked to anybody using CFE pistol. I have had some great comments on this video about different powders. I loaded a another test round with unique because I have about 10 pounds of it. I may try to lower charge of titegroup also that you suggested. My goal was to use titegroup in 45 acp 44 mag (light loads) 9mm and 32 acp. I have tons of different powder on the self right now. During the panic I bought everything I could get my hands on. Thanks for your great support
Just looking at the Sierra 5th Edition manual for their 115g JHP #8110 with Titegroup powder, gives staring load of 3.7g @ 1000 fps, and a max load of 4.5g @ 1150 fps. COL is given @ 1.050”. I’ve found this combination fails the plunk test in my CZ as the bullet engages in the lands due to a short leade, and prevents the slide going fully into battery, but will function ok in my SIG P226. Hope this is useful.
With this Sierra bullet Have to seat it deeper than what most books say. I had some guns chamber and some that didn't so I went deep enough so it will function through everything. I will be doing another video soon. I keep coming back to unique powder. This is still a work in process Thanks for watching
@@chrisevansgunshorsesranchi699With a small capacity case like the 9mm I try to choose a powder that offers reliable, consistent charge weights through my Redding 10X powder measure. For this reason I don’t like Unique as it throws +/- 0.3g and I find I have to check-weigh every charge. I like Alliant Power Pistol as it’s quite fine and throws very consistent charge weights. I look forward to following your progress, and good luck 👍
I have heard good things about power pistol. I am using Unique just because I bought a large quantity from a estate sale. I don't really like Unique but that what I have. This will be a good place to use it up. Thanks for all of your great comments. IF you like agriculture content you might like my other channel 10 cow ranch thank you for your support @@bobhazeel
Interesting results I have a CZ 75 that's about 10 or 12 years old and it has one of the tighter chambers of all my 9 mm. Give Alliant Power pistol or Winchester 572 a shot if you find it. I've had good luck with them. Enjoy these type of videos keep them coming please. Winchester 572 load data is hard to come by,hodgden website has a lot of good data though
Thank you for the great comment I have seen the win 572 powder available recently. As much as I hate Unique I realized last night after shooting the video I have 8-10 pounds of it. I loaded another test round with the Unique but I might try the 572 because this Unique is so dirty. Thanks for watching If you are interested in agriculture content you could check out my other channel 10 cow ranch Thank you in advance
I saw you shooting the steel they don't Jam I just leave it alone they seem to work fine
People in the Czech Republic were so glad to have a job you're going to get the best workers totally loyal to the company at CZ firearms I've been to Prague for a month
Thanks for the good comments I wished I would have found CZ 20 years ago. My favorite 9mm for sure Thanks for watching
I have some loads developed for 115 gr. plated hp as well as 115 gr. Speer GDHP using Longshot from the Hodgdon manual. I like the fact that they call out for the same powder charge for them both (lead and jacketed) using longshot. I load in the middle with good results. With that said I recently purchased a Taurus G3C and a GX4 and they are close to being to long for the G3C but did function ok the first time I tried them in both Taurus's. I'm at 1.120" for the plated and 1.125" for the Spr GDHP.
The loads were developed years ago for my CZ75 RAMI, Springfield 1911 target and FEG High Power clone and function 100% in those but I may work on a slightly shorter load for the future. I to like doing accuracy shooting and load development. How far are you doing your Accuracy at? I typically stay around 15 yards. My eyesight isn't good enough for 25 yards.
Thanks for the great comment. I am shooting at 25 yards. I catch a lot of crap for shooting at 25 yards with these auto pistols . But that’s what I do. Does it make sense? Probably not but it sure is fun. Thanks for watching
@@chrisevansgunshorsesranchi699 Yeah the gun writers in the magazines I've read throughout the years have always did their testing at 25 yards and do very well at that distance. If your eyesight and gun control is good and steady enough than I say keep on with the 25 yards.
You mentioned Unique. I've used that in my 40 S&W with good success but never tried in a 9mm. I'm interested in how it turns out if you try it. Good luck with the load development.
@@BrianF.1969 thanks
Hot loads don't usually give the best accuracy. Try backing off 2 gr. at a time untill you get the desired groups.
Backing off 2 grains is almost half of the max charge. Backing off 0.2 grains might be a good idea. I shoot around 1030 fps with my 9mm at 4.0 grains and the book maximum is 4.2gr
Tested against factory ammunition, which gives me velocities of 1040 fps of the same bullet weight.
This particular powder is really nice close to a max charge, but gets dangerous fast beyond.
Try Hodgdon Longshot for best speed without too much pressure. And I wouldn't worry about getting into +p with a full size 9. Lots of steel around the chamber compared to bigger calibers. I've run 115's well over 1300 in glocks with no issues. Just use good quality brass and don't mix it. Some of the European brass is very thick with less capacity that would cause more pressure with the same load.
Thanks for the great comment I have seen longshot around recently. I have some Unique so that is going to be my next try. I don't really like Unique, the stuff I have is really old and dirty. Thanks for watching If you like agriculture content you could check out my other channel 10 cow ranch Thank you in advance
There are quite a few bullets that have that issue now. Your pressure problems and inaccuracy is coming from that bullet being loaded so deep into the case. I had the same problem it’s the ojive of the bullet
I have one daughter, so I can pick who my favorite daughter is. Almost everything else I don't have to pick a favorite.
If I was getting 1240 fps it would depend on what I wanted to do with those loads. For practice I would probably try to develop a similar load for a little bit less velocity.
You can pick the powder that you want to try and then load test rounds all the way from min. to max. at increment of 2 or 3 tenths and test. You might find a sweet spot doing that, or you might find no sweet spot and you need to try a different powder.
Thanks for the great comment I am working on a load with unique powder. I am wanting around 1150 FPS. Unique seems to be a slower velocity curve than titegroup. I will be posting more videos on this load development If you like agriculture content you might like my other channel 10 cow ranch Thank you in advance
The Taurus with the hammer was like getting a 1500 Sig for 300 bucks
You didn’t mention the brass you are using. Is it all the same head stamp or various? Bullet tension is everything with small case ammo. Stay easy on the crimp, crimp just enough to allow the finished round to pass in your cartridge go no-go gauge. Also tge 9mm head spaces off the mouth so make sure your case lengths are the same. Unfortunately your groups stink, be mindful of your grip pressure and downward pressure. You groups are stringing vertical so hand pressure may be an issue. Change that first with the same load and see what happens. Try resting just your hands on the rest and not the barrel.
If you watch the other video. The groups are better. Thanks for the comment
Ever work with Alliant Power Pistol. I don’t load 9, but it’s great in .38 Super and pretty much anything I’ve tried it in.
No I have not but I have heard great things about it. The problem is I have 10 pounds of unique. I bought a bunch from an estate sale.Thanks for the comment If you are interested in agriculture content you could check out my other channel 10 cow ranch Thank you in advance
@@chrisevansgunshorsesranchi699 Unique will definitely work, plus you don’t have to worry about the potential for a double charge.
I might do that. I more and more wish I had been born on a farm or ranch.
@@876mpr it’s a great life there’s a satisfactory you get from raising crops and livestock. Thanks for all your great comments I’m in my reloading room right now reloading some 5.1 grain loads of unique hopefully tomorrow will do a video.
The CZ 75 is known as the top of the line gun in the whole world by the design
I agree with you max. Thanks for all of your great comments. I read all of them. Thanks for your support
I'm American when I was 20 I went to the Czech Republic people there mind their business look at the floor when they walk by I saw a giant Factory I'm sure it was the gun Factory
I found most of my 9 mm loads need more power to operate the slide like the Beretta has a heavy slide
The bullets I would mostly reload I started off with 38 Special I only make plus b
I have found plus P bullets shoot better more gunpowder to operate the heavy Beretta M9 slide
I found 9 mm the most time-consuming to reload each thing is so tiny
I load 147 grain plated 9mm with tite group with 3.2 grains mouse farts 3" group at 25 yrds. Did not graph them good for plinking.
Thanks for watching
4.7 gr Titegroup seems awfully high for 115gr. Titegroup seems to have a fairly narrow velocity range as it was designed for accuracy, not speed. I load mine at 4.1gr 1.12" coal.
Really liked Unique, but hard to find these days.
My Taurus G3c won't handle most 'fat tip' HP rounds like Gold Dot or Berrys Hybrid at greater than 1.06 inch coal.
Titegroup does have a smaller range it seems like. I have settled on unique for now Thanks for watching
according to the hodgon website it's 0.1 gr off max load. on gordon's reloading tool it's NATO spec / +P and above standard 9mm spec.
I found a bunch of unique recently and that is what I am using in the 9. Thanks for the great comment
The CZ it will be faster also tight groups are fast burning powder so you will see the results
Please be careful. I just ran the numbers based on the information you gave me, and you are over 40,000 psi territory or 37,000 CUP Max standard is 35,000 and you are well over +p at 37,000ish. You can not substitute data from a longer COAL with a shorter. It's OK to go the other way. This is the reason they are are roughly 100 fps faster than the data too.
Thanks for the comment. I have switched to unique powder with better results. Thanks for watching
115s you can go as low as 3.9 for PCC platforms to 4.1 and for pistol 4.2 to 4.3 will cycle everything
FIRST YOUR SHOOTING TO FAR AWAY TRY 7 YARDS THAT WAY YOU KNOW IF THE ROUND IS GOOD ENOUGH. DIFFERENT GUNS HAVE DIFFERENT BARREL TWIST. I WOULD STICK WITH THE CZ TO FIND A LOAD FIRST. ONLY PUT A TARGET UP ONE AT A TIME. I LIKE A ROUND BULLSEYE TARGETS. ARE YOU COULD PUT 2 INCH TARGETS ON THE PAPER . AIM SMALL MISS SMALL.
Thanks for the great comment Herbert. Your comment makes me smile a little. Most of my shooting friends think I am nuts for shooting groups at 25 yards with service pistols. Once in a while I get lucky and get a 3 shot group under an inch at 25 yards. Not very often haha Thanks for watching keep the good comments coming
Your bullet is seated too deep, the 115 sierra's calls for 1.050 over all length directly from their reloading manual
These bullets are a little different. I had to seat them a little deep to get them to function. They seem to be working with Unique powder. Thanks for watching
I better look at what I'm writing I reload revolver rounds 45 Long Colt and 38 + p 10 mm pretty easy
Don't you have a roll of masking tape
I was a week away from getting a th9 and they quit making them I think it was stupid
I almost would rather buy 9 mm they're so hard to reload
Without a reloading manual in front of me I'd say your velocity is too high for a starting load even for a 5" barrel CZ. Your deviation of only 4 ft/sec indicates to me you are very close to max and should shoot very accurately. Yet they don't group in any of 4 different guns that if memory serves me have barrel lengths from 3" plus to 5".
I'm going to throw out some things to lightly check for. Are these bullets hollow base perhaps, if so I'd be concerned with your high velocity readings that the heel of the bullet was being driven into the rifling lands which can cause erratic groups. Are these bullets the right diameter? Off the top of my head I think they should Mike out to .355" if they like to .357/ .358" they Are 3 8/357 bullets not 9mm. Are you crimping to much, in my opinion .002 to .003" is optimal crimp. Are you using standard primers or magniums?
Assuming the bullets are flat base the crimp is ok and you are using std primers. Let's move on. those bullets look to have a very deep hollow pocket. There's a reason that a football is shaped the way it is. The center of mass needs to be pretty close to the center of the bullet for accurate grouping. The thing about a hollow point bullet is it may have an unusually long contact with the rifling due to the deep hollow point. If that bullet is longer than a regular HP bulletyou could have it set to deep in the case. That could be why your drink readings are so high.
Now let's talk about powder, I've read a few hundred pages on it and it's very interesting. I would look for a powder with a wide range between minimum and maxium. I like a range of 6 powder charges.
Thanks for the great comment. I found Unique power does a little better You might my other videos on this Thanks for watching
Obviously a Rancher and not a scientist you can't do a test when there's already a bullet holes
You're driving yourself crazy get a roll of tape and cover up the bullet holes