I would love to see you pull out your short barrel Colt for a few more tests. As one of the many owners of a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield in .45, the 3.3" and similar short barreled guns could use a little love. The Federal HST, Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense, Speer Gold Dot and other premium self defense rounds would make a great video.
With .45 Caliber rounds....even if the hollowpoint fails in 45 caliber, its still a big hunk of lead in a large caliber that leaves a big hole. Winner either way.
This again is a perfect example of why caliber matters and why, (although I tested extensively in gel for a while) I don't trust gel results that much. I've seen many times(both in your testing and mine where smaller calibers expanded massively and didn't leave anywhere near the wound track that .45 did from the commander. I have also hunted extensively with handguns and seen bullets that perform poorly in gel perform perfectly in actual living tissue. So in reality it's still a guessing game. But it makes me think there's something to be said for caliber.
The best use of gel is comparing bullets against other bullets. If some do fantastic in gel and stuff like this doesn't, it's a no brainer which is the "better" ammo. It isn't meant to show you what it does when it hits a pig and bounces off of bone and everything else. Gel is a fantastic medium for showing you trash ammo from manufacturers who couldn't care less what their stuff does, versus great ammo.
Tools, I get what you're saying and I'm thankful for what you're doing! All of it, especially calling out these ammo manufacturers for all the lying and deceit that's gone on forever. My point was that gel is an excellent medium for comparison. And we use it because it's what we have. But not necessarily a great medium for gauging overall bullet performance. And also that a bullet that expands well may not cause the most disruption or damage in either gel or tissue. And more to that point, we can never absolutely count on bullet performance to either cleanly take an animal nor stop an attacker. I think it's a common misconception that gel actually does simulate what a bullet will do in tissue and all other factors such as velocity, energy, caliber (unexpanded projectile diameter) and bullet weight have been dismissed. Those things are every bit as important as the performance of the projectile itself. I could sit here listing examples all day long of ammunition that I've personally seen perform with devastating effects in live tissue that in my testing as well as yours and many others would be considered mediocre in gel. Thanks again for all the great work you're doing! I always enjoy your videos.
@@johncoleman2495 People don't buy ammo to stop the gelatin monster from Hotel Transylvania. They buy ammo to survive an attack from humans, and animals. Certain ammo has been proven to do exactly that, but has lousy performance in gelatin/Jello.
I just checked a couple online spots and the price wasn't much different than FMJ so, I guess if one is going bargain basement (in keeping with our economy) the "might expand" is a somewhat better option than the "definitely won't expand" of FMJ, although that's still a hunk of lead and copper travelling through someone's innards at a diameter that would be considered not too shabby from a smaller caliber expanding round. A little better than "better than nothing," I reckon. Great test and great info!
Back in the early 2010s I ordered a case of WWB .45 from a well-known website that’s still in business to this day. They were supposed to be product # Q4170 but they sent me Q4170A1 instead. They were branded Winchester, but they were really compact boxes, and the contents were split up into two separate little square racks within each box. They said they were made in the Czech Republic. Turns out that back then, Winchester contracted with Sellier & Bellot when demand exceeded their production capabilities. Cases were stamped with Winchester but had a dot on each side of the brand name and had the classic flat S&B large primers. They were terrible, although I know S&B has gotten better since then. Tried hard to get my money back but never did, and I’ve never bought from them since.
I've always had excellent luck with S&B ammo. It wouldn't be my defensive choice but it's always been excellent renge ammo and I get very good case life when reloading the cases as well.
Great test Tools! Winchester must be skimping on quality nowadays. I used to have pretty good luck with White Box .45acp. Now I gotta go buy another box to compare them with what my old results. I appreciate you doing this.
Interesting test. Thank you for taking the time to perform it. None of these performed fantastically as far as expansion goes, but the hollow point appears to have prevented overpenetration; they did not act like FMJ. FMJ 230 gr .45 usually penetrate around 26” or so. In that regard, and the fact that they are, indeed, .45 caliber projectiles, they would most likely serve the intended purpose. Great Grandpa used a .45-70 on deer and according to Grandpa, there was never anything other than a thumb-sized through-and-through hole in the animal. I’m not even a big fan of the .45, and I really wish these had expanded well, but I think there’s something to be said for a projectile that large going through its intended target, whether or not it expands.
This test right here is why I go to Tools&Targets for the lowdown. I have tested 9mm in 115 and 147 JHP and got really good results shooting into water jugs. One round of the 147 expanded as well as the 115, even with a 3.1 barrel and the velocity on the box at 990fps, so I know that Winchester knows to use a thin enough jacket and soft enough lead to get good expansion at low velocity. But one of the 147s looked like it had hit a steel bar on one side, shearing off the jacket on one side and flattening the lead out on one side all the way to the base of the bullet. Instead of a mushroom, it looked like it had been in a pencil sharpener. VERY inconsistent performance in the 147s. With this .45 test and the bad showing of your .40 test, it's pretty clear that WInchester's bullet quality control is terrible. Their USA Ready has broken apart for me, too. I have never shot the Rangers or Silvertips in my milkjug tests. Your channel is one of a very few that I trust to tell the straight truth without some wishy-washy fence-sitting.
Another nice test Tools. Not a 45 guy but the results sure prove that reliable performance are a must. Can't hope & pray they will perform consistently. Have a great week. Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
What is important is that it saved my life and others in combat in Vietnam. The enemy didn’t care how fast the projectile was traveling or how far it penetrated as long as it did the job and that I was able to walk away. The 1911 with a full metal jacket, proved its reliability every time, not just by me, but by any fellow Marine, I know that used it.
I've actually been trying to get my gun room cleaned up and organized so I can set up a place to do some lives in there. It gets chilly out in the garage this time of year.😆
Nice video tools&targets! I would love to see you do more testing with the wwb 9mm 115 & 147 grain with longer barrels like 4.5 inches. We all know it did well with the 3 inch barrel, but I'm curious to see if the longer barrel gives it more expansion and thus affects its penatration. Keep up the good work!
That Winchester white box is Dam good in 9mm check my page I recently tested this load in 115 grain and it performed PHENOMENAL for cheap generic $25 for a fiddy box ammo
@@djangofreeman9382 ~~~ I think it is hit or miss, not consistent. Or it could also be the barrel of the tool it is coming out of that makes the difference. I just know I’ll still with my Speer Gold Dots, HSTs, and Sig V~Crowns for self defense purposes.
Good test! I've got a pile of older WWB 230g fmj and it seems to be loaded good. It's definitely dirty, but very reliable range ammo with decent accuracy in my 1911 and FNX45 Tactical. Haven't bought .45 ACP in years, cause I've got a pile of it. I'll continue to carry the Speer Gold Dot I have for it. It was cheap 10 years ago. I think ammo companies will continue to skimp on powder with increased costs. Supposed to be 15% increase in powder this year. I bought another 8 lbs, so be good for a while.
One thing in the .45's favor is the fact it's starting out with a diameter approaching half an inch. So, getting hit with a 230gr., .45" diameter piece of lead may be good enough. But all of that is speculation on my part, I'm just a J frame 38+P guy. Either way, thanks for another great video.
I bought a bunch of this from an FFL that was going out of business (because of my state's new jacked up FFL laws) I got a decent discount on it. I see it as decent range ammo, good barter ammo in a SHTF situation..........or good enough to use when it's all I have left in a SHTF situation. It'd never be in a home defense or carry gun until it was all I had left, though.
This is why it's important to test your carry ammo in the cold too. Just because the box says it should do something and the projectile looks like it should do something doesn't always mean it will perform the same way in the middle of summer vs. middle of winter. :)
@@ToolsandTargets exactly! It has to do with false advertising. And they get away with it because their claims are that they are using a fixed test barrel of a given length.
A little disappointing, but they would still penetrate while shattering bones in the way. I've got a few boxes around that I purchased four or five years ago. Hopefully they were made better then. I kept them after selling my M&P 45C. I did see a couple gel tests a few years ago, and at that time they seemed to be a legitimate carry round, that expanded well. Manufacturers may change materials or designs now and then, could be the case here. I will stay with proven designs like HST, Federal Punch, Hdrashok Deep, and Gold Dot.
Thanks for the video. Just proves that Winchester white box is just range ammo and the hollow points are expensive range ammo. Appreciate you weathering the cold for the test. Thanks! Happy New Year
Great test . For us back woods hikers I would love to see a penetration test between a regular 45acp FMJ and the Winchester 45acp 230 grain FMJ flat point that they make .
I use Winchester white box FMJs for practice, but I never trusted and of their JHPs. Looks like my gut feeling was justified, at least for this caliber. Thanks, toolman.
Bummer. You're definitely correct about the price and performance comparison to other rounds. Ammo Inc. in both their plain JHP and the XDef come to mind.
I've been tempted to get a 5.7 for a while just to have one honestly. It really is the stinking ammo cost and as it's availability. Yes both are better lately.
Thanks for the test. That first track was really encouraging, but the next two were a disappointment. That's practice round performance (but they're too expensive) and not acceptable for defense.
Cool test! Thank you! Love the .45acp tests! Learn a ton. This one made my day and I have been having a really lousy run of luck. So thank you for this video!!!
Great test! As with other Winchester "White" box cartridges these are meant for range/practice use..... exception the 9MM you tested and the Winchester White box .357 Magnum 110 grain which has excellent performance without the excessive muzzle flip and blast of the 125 grain .357 Magnum according to my own personal test with my Colt King Cobra and Colt Magnum Carry...... 😀😀😀
This test just further reinforces my opinion of only wanting pistol cartridges going over 1000 fps, given the really dodgy hollow point performance once you get lower than that. Really no reason these shouldn't be going at least 900 out of the five inch. Thanks for the test.
Because 45acp & many other pistol calibers have been watered down even 12ga buckshot has been watered down. If you want full power buck you have to buy foreign shotgun ammo like Fiocchi or Rio.
In 230gr, I mostly have ball ammo. Some of the .45ACP HP rounds I have are 180gr. I've never shot or tested any of the 180s, but the speed on the box is higher, closer to 1000fps muzzle. The lighter bullets might work... I don't have that much .45ACP to play with. It's not something I'd regularly carry, except openly on my hip. I'm not really that concerned about expansion in a .45ACP, its a slow round. The hollow points I got were cheap at the time and may work better in a G21 than a 1911... Anyway, I have the .45's for fun and nostalgia... 9mm is my primary defensive handgun round. I'm glad to see you doing these ammo tests. They are educational.
I have stayed away from WWB since they moved their factory to Mississippi. Many, many horror stories of missing primers, gunpowder, etc since that move from the Olin Alton, IL plant to Oxford, MS. Poor quality control down there. ☹
After the many successful tests of the WWB 9mm, I was wondering if I could switch for my 40 and 45. Thanks for showing me that's a no go on both the 4 boys.
Tools I always watch your tests and trust your honesty. I am on vacation in Lisbon Portugal and can’t help myself when it comes to your videos. I’ll keep my EDC, a Glock 22. Thanks as always.
Another good test in the books. I think I’ll pass simply for the price difference. Like you said better options with a cheaper price tag. Really curious though how the shorter barrel performed better though. Good information my friend. Be safe and stay warm. 🇺🇸⭐️🇺🇸⭐️👍
Well I was certainly hoping they would do better! I have a number of these boxes stacked up from when they were cheaper. They’re just moving too slow. Maybe from a carbine? Sucks to start the day with a fail lol 😆. Great test anyway good sir. 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Do Sellier & Bellot 230g JHP in .45 next! Love seeing these budget ammo tests, everybody makes HST's and Ranger T vids, i wanna see what i use on my average range trip instead
Seen the white box FMJ 230 grain on special,back of the box states 831fps at 5 yards and 817 at 25. Selling at $14.80 usd for 50 (In Australia) The Winchester Ranger 45 auto +P “T series” advertise 985 and 965 at five and twenty five. These are going for $27 usd for 50. Being we cant shoot fmj at the range these hollow points are popular and usually sell out in no time. Probably why the fmj’s are on special
I cant remember when the last time was I bought Winchester White box in anything but 350 Legend 145gr. Even 22lr has been disappointing & it use to be 1 of top 10 ammos. Stay safe cause yall may be getting icy roads tomorrow. Appreciate you. 🙏👍💥
I’ve lived in Michigan most of my life,, you should see the under carriage of cars especially older ones,,,It will also rust out fenders to point it will just start eating it away… it’s amazing when you go down to Florida you see old cars looking brand new still.. like a 1987 Ford F150 will look show room ready…
@@ToolsandTargetsWorst part on the salt or salt/beet juice solution is it attracts deer to the roads. They are already hyped up for breeding season & crossing roads like crazy. Of course for the right lady I would run out in traffic. 😂🦌🏃 🚗
Another great and informative video, thanks Tools! BTW, I wonder what kind of results you would get from the 230 grain +P JHP from Black Hills ammo. The few tests I've seen so far seems to perform better than the Golden Sabers and Hornady 230 grain +P XTP. Thanks brother 👍
Interesting video Tools. WWB did well in 147 9mm, but this was not ideal. I do have a box of this in the safe, but the only ammo loaded in my 1911 (which is only a safe/range gun anyway) is Critical Duty 220gr +P
Yep, more expansion would be good. Though the .45 starts out where some 9mm's end up. These gel tests are great, it would be nice for someone who follows actual shootings come out with some info. Way back in the day Evan Marshall did a comprehensive breakdown of one shot stops with torso hits. Very enlightening. With today's advances in bullet design and performance those results may not have changed much. The 9mm can be pretty ineffective without the right bullet in the one shot stop category. Do a test with all FMJ bullets in a cross caliber comparison. The nine will surprise.
Not a total failure but substandard expansion due to slow velocity given the bullet construction. It might work better if it was a +P loading. There are better loads out there but you have to pay more too. Speer and Hornady make some good ones. Thanks for another excellent test.
I have had enough Win white box ammo over the years that I no longer buy it. I had some 44mag 240gr hollow points that were dangerous. The primers were blowing out. Win white box used to be a cheap range fodder. However, no ammo is cheap today. I load my own ammo these days. As for reliable expansion on 45ACP? Cowboy Action lead, around 12 hardness, at 800fps to 900fps from a 45ACP will expand reliably.
I had a Winchester white box of 9 mm FMJ. Fours rounds in the box malfunctioned. Each one had the primer back out after being struck. Pulled the bullet. No flash hole under the primer.
I use Speer Lawman & Winchester White Box, with both in FMJ, for my range ammo. I never gave it a thought to look for JHPs for range work. They obviously don't work as a self defense round, so they are only good for the range.
@@victorwright4898why series 80 ? If you're concerned about drop safety, I think if you go with a titanium firing pin renders uncocked 1911 clone drop safe. Same for cocked/locked condition with proper sear to hammer engagement.. Someone back me up or correct me ?
I remember you testing a few calibers of this in the bare gelly and they did ok but dress em up not so good ! Probably should've had the trapper hat or ol swamp ears on it that weather...😅
Well 45 doesn't shrink. But not what we are paying for. Shot placement in the right spot is a bad day for a bad guy. Over penetration? I would say yes but not as bad as others. Thank you for honest demonstration.
Good testing. I’ve got some of these that are will be leaving my defense ammo cabinet and relocated to my target range ammo cabinet 👍🏻. Glad I didn’t buy a bunch of them. I still hold true with my 45 ranger T ammo.
Thanks for the effort, and this just proves that the White Box stuff is basically FMJ junk. For what you pay for, like you said, so many other and better options out there that actualluy work. Off topic/ You know that you and I are close to each other, and the quick icing in the AM is a direct bullseye on you, then the rain will clear it out. Be safe and have those power back ups ready to go! 🙏
This is quite surprising to me. I've personally never had an issue getting these to expand with a 3.3-inch barrel. I got one to expand at 25 to 30 yards away by simply nicking the corner of a gallon jug full of water. Others share a similar experience with other different test mediums. The velocities in your video are indicative of your box of ammo not being loaded hot enough.
They have 38+P and 357 mag too, hmmmm! never tried any myself! I do have about 750 rds of the 9mm, no regrets on that lol! One thing for sure they penetrated good! ha! Happy Friday! 👍💥💥
The 1st shot from the 5" started to expand one petal which caused the tumbling (my inexpert opinion). When I can get Federal HST standard pressure expanding reliably to .85" I will be using my WWB JHP ammo for target practice. Thanks for the test, I definitely won't be buying any more WWB.
Great video Tools! You ever give much thought to doing some reloading videos? Maybe reloading and then some testing in the jell? Kinda like going though a reloading manual starting with the lowest load and progressing to the max load showing the results in the jell. Sorry if that sounds stupid. Brand new to reloading and just thought that would be interesting. Not sure if most of your viewers are into that stuff or not
Thank you sir. I had intentions early on of doing something like that, but time and YT has put it on the back burner. I still want to eventually do a little of that and have more than everything I need to do it except that time.😆.
Thanks for responding Tools. It would be kind of neat to see you review such and such brand and we see the performance of that brand then you work up a load to out perform the brand name manufacturer or something similar
Thanks for posting your test results. As expected, the White box offerings aren't exemplary. I use white box ammo strictly for range or competition. It's very reliable in it's feeding, firing, and extraction.
This was my first carry round when I first started carrying guns over 10 years ago. I thought all hollow points were created equally at the time. I'm glad I didn't get into any trouble during that time.
I found this test surprising because of my experiences with this round. I’ve shot a few things with it and recovered the bullet. I had picture perfect expansion on a snowman years ago. This has been my carry round for years. I guess I might have to reevaluate that choice.
At least they all lit off.I had a bunch of WWB FMJs that did not fire when breaking in a new 1911 last year.switched to armscor and all went off and back to WWB and still got a few duds.Gun fires everything else no problem.Any one else get this before?
Just goes to show how much advancement in projectile design has occurred in the past 30yrs..... bullets designed in the 1980s expand some of the time under ideal conditions.... modern bullets expand almost always and under many different conditions (ie. barriers). That said 230gr 45acp will wreck somebody's day even with the worst projectile.
Great video tools, thank you and happy New year 🎊. Winchester white box is like the big fat girl at the school dance, she's nice to talk to you but you really don't want to take her home.
Your thumbnail shows a box of FMJ's, but the bullets on top are obviously hollow points. Into lying much?
Tell me the truth...How bad does stupid hurt?
You must be looking at the wrong thumbnail son
Well, congratulations, you are the first contestant for dumbest comment of the year award.
It is clear that you voted for JB and the cackling hyena.😂
You must be a democrat
I would love to see you pull out your short barrel Colt for a few more tests. As one of the many owners of a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield in .45, the 3.3" and similar short barreled guns could use a little love. The Federal HST, Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense, Speer Gold Dot and other premium self defense rounds would make a great video.
Use a Colt Defender, if you can find one, or a ParaOrdinance Warthog. Both have 3" barrels if I'm not mistaken.
Even at 800fps I still wouldn't want to get hit by it .45 makes a big hole.
Fps isn't relevant unless you're piercing through armor. Not sure how important ot is against car doors
@@jason200912it is relevant. I don’t want my bullets flying slower than a BB gun
@@SaintPhinehas fmj 45 may be slow but it will pierce through car doors and drywall just the same
@@jason200912 not really and why would I use fmj on a car door or drywall
@@SaintPhinehas why else would you need velocity for? Shooting matrix super human bullet dodgers?
With .45 Caliber rounds....even if the hollowpoint fails in 45 caliber, its still a big hunk of lead in a large caliber that leaves a big hole. Winner either way.
This again is a perfect example of why caliber matters and why, (although I tested extensively in gel for a while) I don't trust gel results that much. I've seen many times(both in your testing and mine where smaller calibers expanded massively and didn't leave anywhere near the wound track that .45 did from the commander. I have also hunted extensively with handguns and seen bullets that perform poorly in gel perform perfectly in actual living tissue. So in reality it's still a guessing game. But it makes me think there's something to be said for caliber.
The best use of gel is comparing bullets against other bullets. If some do fantastic in gel and stuff like this doesn't, it's a no brainer which is the "better" ammo. It isn't meant to show you what it does when it hits a pig and bounces off of bone and everything else. Gel is a fantastic medium for showing you trash ammo from manufacturers who couldn't care less what their stuff does, versus great ammo.
Tools, I get what you're saying and I'm thankful for what you're doing! All of it, especially calling out these ammo manufacturers for all the lying and deceit that's gone on forever. My point was that gel is an excellent medium for comparison. And we use it because it's what we have. But not necessarily a great medium for gauging overall bullet performance. And also that a bullet that expands well may not cause the most disruption or damage in either gel or tissue. And more to that point, we can never absolutely count on bullet performance to either cleanly take an animal nor stop an attacker. I think it's a common misconception that gel actually does simulate what a bullet will do in tissue and all other factors such as velocity, energy, caliber (unexpanded projectile diameter) and bullet weight have been dismissed. Those things are every bit as important as the performance of the projectile itself. I could sit here listing examples all day long of ammunition that I've personally seen perform with devastating effects in live tissue that in my testing as well as yours and many others would be considered mediocre in gel.
Thanks again for all the great work you're doing! I always enjoy your videos.
@@johncoleman2495 People don't buy ammo to stop the gelatin monster from Hotel Transylvania. They buy ammo to survive an attack from humans, and animals. Certain ammo has been proven to do exactly that, but has lousy performance in gelatin/Jello.
@@walkingwolf8072 are you stupid?
I just checked a couple online spots and the price wasn't much different than FMJ so, I guess if one is going bargain basement (in keeping with our economy) the "might expand" is a somewhat better option than the "definitely won't expand" of FMJ, although that's still a hunk of lead and copper travelling through someone's innards at a diameter that would be considered not too shabby from a smaller caliber expanding round. A little better than "better than nothing," I reckon.
Great test and great info!
They're more than double what I can get fmj for around here. I can get fmj for $18/box.😆
@@ToolsandTargets I just glanced at a couple online places, but if there is a significant price difference, then no, they are definitely not worth it!
Thanks Brother for bearing the cold to make this video for us. A Safe and Healthy New Year to you and your Family!
Thank you sir. Same to you!😎👊
Parabéns pelo canal, que esse novo ano seja repleto de bençãos e grandes teste 😎😎
Back in the early 2010s I ordered a case of WWB .45 from a well-known website that’s still in business to this day. They were supposed to be product # Q4170 but they sent me Q4170A1 instead. They were branded Winchester, but they were really compact boxes, and the contents were split up into two separate little square racks within each box. They said they were made in the Czech Republic. Turns out that back then, Winchester contracted with Sellier & Bellot when demand exceeded their production capabilities. Cases were stamped with Winchester but had a dot on each side of the brand name and had the classic flat S&B large primers. They were terrible, although I know S&B has gotten better since then. Tried hard to get my money back but never did, and I’ve never bought from them since.
Very interesting
I've always had excellent luck with S&B ammo. It wouldn't be my defensive choice but it's always been excellent renge ammo and I get very good case life when reloading the cases as well.
That’s too bad. If I remember right, the bargain Remington UMC JHPs performed amazingly well. Thanks for testing these.
This channel is one of the best on RUclips!
Thank you sir.😎👊
Great test Tools! Winchester must be skimping on quality nowadays. I used to have pretty good luck with White Box .45acp. Now I gotta go buy another box to compare them with what my old results. I appreciate you doing this.
Some ammo companies stick to spec, I know Federal usually is pretty hot. Massively creatored primers etc.
Interesting test. Thank you for taking the time to perform it. None of these performed fantastically as far as expansion goes, but the hollow point appears to have prevented overpenetration; they did not act like FMJ. FMJ 230 gr .45 usually penetrate around 26” or so. In that regard, and the fact that they are, indeed, .45 caliber projectiles, they would most likely serve the intended purpose. Great Grandpa used a .45-70 on deer and according to Grandpa, there was never anything other than a thumb-sized through-and-through hole in the animal.
I’m not even a big fan of the .45, and I really wish these had expanded well, but I think there’s something to be said for a projectile that large going through its intended target, whether or not it expands.
This test right here is why I go to Tools&Targets for the lowdown. I have tested 9mm in 115 and 147 JHP and got really good results shooting into water jugs. One round of the 147 expanded as well as the 115, even with a 3.1 barrel and the velocity on the box at 990fps, so I know that Winchester knows to use a thin enough jacket and soft enough lead to get good expansion at low velocity. But one of the 147s looked like it had hit a steel bar on one side, shearing off the jacket on one side and flattening the lead out on one side all the way to the base of the bullet. Instead of a mushroom, it looked like it had been in a pencil sharpener. VERY inconsistent performance in the 147s. With this .45 test and the bad showing of your .40 test, it's pretty clear that WInchester's bullet quality control is terrible. Their USA Ready has broken apart for me, too. I have never shot the Rangers or Silvertips in my milkjug tests. Your channel is one of a very few that I trust to tell the straight truth without some wishy-washy fence-sitting.
Appreciate that, brother!😎👊
Another nice test Tools. Not a 45 guy but the results sure prove that reliable performance are a must. Can't hope & pray they will perform consistently. Have a great week.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
What is important is that it saved my life and others in combat in Vietnam. The enemy didn’t care how fast the projectile was traveling or how far it penetrated as long as it did the job and that I was able to walk away. The 1911 with a full metal jacket, proved its reliability every time, not just by me, but by any fellow Marine, I know that used it.
When are you doing another live stream? You do the best live streams on GunTube.
I've actually been trying to get my gun room cleaned up and organized so I can set up a place to do some lives in there. It gets chilly out in the garage this time of year.😆
👍🏻👍🏻
Church of ToolsandTargets.
Nice video tools&targets! I would love to see you do more testing with the wwb 9mm 115 & 147 grain with longer barrels like 4.5 inches. We all know it did well with the 3 inch barrel, but I'm curious to see if the longer barrel gives it more expansion and thus affects its penatration. Keep up the good work!
Predominantly why I use the white box just for range ammo. Always love your videos chief!
Thank you sir!😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets ~~~ No problem chief!
That Winchester white box is Dam good in 9mm check my page I recently tested this load in 115 grain and it performed PHENOMENAL for cheap generic $25 for a fiddy box ammo
@@djangofreeman9382 ~~~ I think it is hit or miss, not consistent. Or it could also be the barrel of the tool it is coming out of that makes the difference. I just know I’ll still with my Speer Gold Dots, HSTs, and Sig V~Crowns for self defense purposes.
Good test! I've got a pile of older WWB 230g fmj and it seems to be loaded good. It's definitely dirty, but very reliable range ammo with decent accuracy in my 1911 and FNX45 Tactical.
Haven't bought .45 ACP in years, cause I've got a pile of it. I'll continue to carry the Speer Gold Dot I have for it. It was cheap 10 years ago.
I think ammo companies will continue to skimp on powder with increased costs. Supposed to be 15% increase in powder this year. I bought another 8 lbs, so be good for a while.
I keep waiting on the powder to disappear at my local shop but a guess folks just aint in a hurry anymore.
@ToolsandTargets yep, seeing lots of powder here too. Variable on primers, finding them, but still not very good price.
One thing in the .45's favor is the fact it's starting out with a diameter approaching half an inch. So, getting hit with a 230gr., .45" diameter piece of lead may be good enough. But all of that is speculation on my part, I'm just a J frame 38+P guy. Either way, thanks for another great video.
Not wrong. It would still leave a big hole.😎👊
The slower bullet had a better wound channel, interesting result.🤔
Thanks for all the testing you do, I find it is very valuable information.👍
I bought a bunch of this from an FFL that was going out of business (because of my state's new jacked up FFL laws) I got a decent discount on it. I see it as decent range ammo, good barter ammo in a SHTF situation..........or good enough to use when it's all I have left in a SHTF situation. It'd never be in a home defense or carry gun until it was all I had left, though.
This is why it's important to test your carry ammo in the cold too. Just because the box says it should do something and the projectile looks like it should do something doesn't always mean it will perform the same way in the middle of summer vs. middle of winter. :)
This has absolutely nothing to do with temperature.
@@ToolsandTargets exactly! It has to do with false advertising. And they get away with it because their claims are that they are using a fixed test barrel of a given length.
A little disappointing, but they would still penetrate while shattering bones in the way. I've got a few boxes around that I purchased four or five years ago. Hopefully they were made better then. I kept them after selling my M&P 45C. I did see a couple gel tests a few years ago, and at that time they seemed to be a legitimate carry round, that expanded well. Manufacturers may change materials or designs now and then, could be the case here. I will stay with proven designs like HST, Federal Punch, Hdrashok Deep, and Gold Dot.
Thanks for the video. Just proves that Winchester white box is just range ammo and the hollow points are expensive range ammo. Appreciate you weathering the cold for the test. Thanks! Happy New Year
Great test . For us back woods hikers I would love to see a penetration test between a regular 45acp FMJ and the Winchester 45acp 230 grain FMJ flat point that they make .
I use Winchester white box FMJs for practice, but I never trusted and of their JHPs. Looks like my gut feeling was justified, at least for this caliber. Thanks, toolman.
Bummer. You're definitely correct about the price and performance comparison to other rounds. Ammo Inc. in both their plain JHP and the XDef come to mind.
Yep, both much better than these.
I've been tempted to get a 5.7 for a while just to have one honestly. It really is the stinking ammo cost and as it's availability. Yes both are better lately.
I was impressed you hit the 75 yard target. Thanks for all your hard work.
For testing more of the white box I haven’t seen it in a while but they used to make a 110 version for the 357 mag
Thanks for the test. That first track was really encouraging, but the next two were a disappointment. That's practice round performance (but they're too expensive) and not acceptable for defense.
Cool test! Thank you! Love the .45acp tests! Learn a ton. This one made my day and I have been having a really lousy run of luck. So thank you for this video!!!
Great test! As with other Winchester "White" box cartridges these are meant for range/practice use..... exception the 9MM you tested and the Winchester White box .357 Magnum 110 grain which has excellent performance without the excessive muzzle flip and blast of the 125 grain .357 Magnum according to my own personal test with my Colt King Cobra and Colt Magnum Carry...... 😀😀😀
Thank you sir.😎👊
This test just further reinforces my opinion of only wanting pistol cartridges going over 1000 fps, given the really dodgy hollow point performance once you get lower than that. Really no reason these shouldn't be going at least 900 out of the five inch. Thanks for the test.
Yeah, I knew it was gonna be ugly at those speeds.😆
Because 45acp & many other pistol calibers have been watered down even 12ga buckshot has been watered down. If you want full power buck you have to buy foreign shotgun ammo like Fiocchi or Rio.
In 230gr, I mostly have ball ammo. Some of the .45ACP HP rounds I have are 180gr. I've never shot or tested any of the 180s, but the speed on the box is higher, closer to 1000fps muzzle. The lighter bullets might work... I don't have that much .45ACP to play with. It's not something I'd regularly carry, except openly on my hip. I'm not really that concerned about expansion in a .45ACP, its a slow round. The hollow points I got were cheap at the time and may work better in a G21 than a 1911... Anyway, I have the .45's for fun and nostalgia... 9mm is my primary defensive handgun round. I'm glad to see you doing these ammo tests. They are educational.
Thank you sir. I'd definitely go lighter if I were carrying .45acp.😎👊
I have stayed away from WWB since they moved their factory to Mississippi. Many, many horror stories of missing primers, gunpowder, etc since that move from the Olin Alton, IL plant to Oxford, MS. Poor quality control down there. ☹
After the many successful tests of the WWB 9mm, I was wondering if I could switch for my 40 and 45. Thanks for showing me that's a no go on both the 4 boys.
Sad to see the big ones not do so hot.
Tools I always watch your tests and trust your honesty. I am on vacation in Lisbon Portugal and can’t help myself when it comes to your videos. I’ll keep my EDC, a Glock 22. Thanks as always.
Another good test in the books. I think I’ll pass simply for the price difference. Like you said better options with a cheaper price tag. Really curious though how the shorter barrel performed better though. Good information my friend. Be safe and stay warm. 🇺🇸⭐️🇺🇸⭐️👍
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes!😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets lol 😂👍 that’s great.
Less time expending energy in the rifling twist and less spin gave more uniform energy on target I imagine.
Happy New Year, Brother! The only white box ammo that I like is the 44 mag 240 grain jacketed soft point. Best hog round ever. Great video 🙏🏿🇺🇲
Thank you sir. Don't think I've seen that locally.😎👊
Awesome! Have you done the 230gr remington umc jhp?
Thanks!
Thank you sir. Can't remember but I don't think I have in .45acp.
Thanks ! We appreciate the show!
Even without much expansion, that's not bad penetration for such a slow round.
Well I was certainly hoping they would do better! I have a number of these boxes stacked up from when they were cheaper. They’re just moving too slow. Maybe from a carbine? Sucks to start the day with a fail lol 😆. Great test anyway good sir. 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Do Sellier & Bellot 230g JHP in .45 next! Love seeing these budget ammo tests, everybody makes HST's and Ranger T vids, i wanna see what i use on my average range trip instead
Seen the white box FMJ 230 grain on special,back of the box states 831fps at 5 yards and 817 at 25.
Selling at $14.80 usd for 50 (In Australia)
The Winchester Ranger 45 auto +P “T series” advertise 985 and 965 at five and twenty five.
These are going for $27 usd for 50.
Being we cant shoot fmj at the range these hollow points are popular and usually sell out in no time.
Probably why the fmj’s are on special
That's a great deal for .45 fmj.😎👊
I cant remember when the last time was I bought Winchester White box in anything but 350 Legend 145gr. Even 22lr has been disappointing & it use to be 1 of top 10 ammos. Stay safe cause yall may be getting icy roads tomorrow. Appreciate you. 🙏👍💥
I was cussin the salt trucks for the last 2 days. That stuff is terrible on cars.😆
I’ve lived in Michigan most of my life,, you should see the under carriage of cars especially older ones,,,It will also rust out fenders to point it will just start eating it away… it’s amazing when you go down to Florida you see old cars looking brand new still.. like a 1987 Ford F150 will look show room ready…
@@ToolsandTargetsWorst part on the salt or salt/beet juice solution is it attracts deer to the roads. They are already hyped up for breeding season & crossing roads like crazy. Of course for the right lady I would run out in traffic. 😂🦌🏃 🚗
Another great and informative video, thanks Tools! BTW, I wonder what kind of results you would get from the 230 grain +P JHP from Black Hills ammo. The few tests I've seen so far seems to perform better than the Golden Sabers and Hornady 230 grain +P XTP. Thanks brother 👍
Thank you sir.🤔
Haven't had a lot of luck from winchester so not much surprise good test Tools thanks for the video.
Interesting video Tools. WWB did well in 147 9mm, but this was not ideal. I do have a box of this in the safe, but the only ammo loaded in my 1911 (which is only a safe/range gun anyway) is Critical Duty 220gr +P
I say the difference in performance can be attributed to the spread seen in the velocity testing.
Thanks for testing this. .45 ACP has great potential. Though only with the right ammo like HST.
Yep, more expansion would be good. Though the .45 starts out where some 9mm's end up. These gel tests are great, it would be nice for someone who follows actual shootings come out with some info. Way back in the day Evan Marshall did a comprehensive breakdown of one shot stops with torso hits. Very enlightening. With today's advances in bullet design and performance those results may not have changed much. The 9mm can be pretty ineffective without the right bullet in the one shot stop category. Do a test with all FMJ bullets in a cross caliber comparison. The nine will surprise.
Not a total failure but substandard expansion due to slow velocity given the bullet construction. It might work better if it was a +P loading. There are better loads out there but you have to pay more too. Speer and Hornady make some good ones. Thanks for another excellent test.
I have had enough Win white box ammo over the years that I no longer buy it. I had some 44mag 240gr hollow points that were dangerous. The primers were blowing out. Win white box used to be a cheap range fodder. However, no ammo is cheap today. I load my own ammo these days. As for reliable expansion on 45ACP? Cowboy Action lead, around 12 hardness, at 800fps to 900fps from a 45ACP will expand reliably.
Great video tell you live near me by the back ground i think,,,, front Royal King been bit low ammo lately
Good dot and hst are the only ones that I believe work fine in the 45’s @ 800-900.
😎👊
I had a Winchester white box of 9 mm FMJ. Fours rounds in the box malfunctioned. Each one had the primer back out after being struck. Pulled the bullet. No flash hole under the primer.
I use Speer Lawman & Winchester White Box, with both in FMJ, for my range ammo. I never gave it a thought to look for JHPs for range work. They obviously don't work as a self defense round, so they are only good for the range.
Those Rock Island 1911s are very good tools, indeed. The one in 10mm is awesome.
Agreed. It's been flawless.
that 10 is gonna be my next tool also,i just have to save up for it,had it but other things came up and now i gotta start over
I have the officers 3.5 in and it is awsome. Just wish it was a series 80.
@@victorwright4898why series 80 ?
If you're concerned about drop safety, I think if you go with a titanium firing pin renders uncocked 1911 clone drop safe. Same for cocked/locked condition with proper sear to hammer engagement..
Someone back me up or correct me ?
@@peacemaker-du4hz Know the feeling!
I remember you testing a few calibers of this in the bare gelly and they did ok but dress em up not so good ! Probably should've had the trapper hat or ol swamp ears on it that weather...😅
Well 45 doesn't shrink. But not what we are paying for. Shot placement in the right spot is a bad day for a bad guy. Over penetration? I would say yes but not as bad as others. Thank you for honest demonstration.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you as always!😎👊
Thanks for the vid! Seems like WWB is best when purchased as FMJs for the range. 🤔 😄
Good testing. I’ve got some of these that are will be leaving my defense ammo cabinet and relocated to my target range ammo cabinet 👍🏻. Glad I didn’t buy a bunch of them. I still hold true with my 45 ranger T ammo.
They would still make some big holes if you had to use em.😎👊
When you test JHP. Maybe show the difference between a ball round at the end.
This is the best freedom seed testing channel on RUclips. Would like to have seen them do better. Another great test brother tools.
Years ago, I tested this round from a 5" with four layers of denim and water jugs, getting good expansion.
Thanks for the effort, and this just proves that the White Box stuff is basically FMJ junk. For what you pay for, like you said, so many other and better options out there that actualluy work. Off topic/ You know that you and I are close to each other, and the quick icing in the AM is a direct bullseye on you, then the rain will clear it out. Be safe and have those power back ups ready to go! 🙏
Yeah, they were slinging nasty salt all on the roads since yesterday like it's gonna be some arctic blizzard. 😆
This is quite surprising to me. I've personally never had an issue getting these to expand with a 3.3-inch barrel. I got one to expand at 25 to 30 yards away by simply nicking the corner of a gallon jug full of water. Others share a similar experience with other different test mediums. The velocities in your video are indicative of your box of ammo not being loaded hot enough.
Have you tested the cheap Remington 230 gr hollow points? They are awesome in water jugs!!
Keep up the good work!!
They have 38+P and 357 mag too, hmmmm! never tried any myself! I do have about 750 rds of the 9mm, no regrets on that lol! One thing for sure they penetrated good! ha! Happy Friday! 👍💥💥
Had high hopes after the 4.25 test and then WW let us down again. Don’t have any and know what not to look for. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!
Good test. Have you ever considered taking some of these failed HP's and making a DIY FTX type by adding some silicone and testing those?
Would love to see you do a test of G9s external hollow point 10mm. Looks like it had a lot of potential, but there’s no videos on it.
You gotta get a high speed camera!! Grab a Chronos...they aren't even TOO crazy expensive!!
The 1st shot from the 5" started to expand one petal which caused the tumbling (my inexpert opinion). When I can get Federal HST standard pressure expanding reliably to .85" I will be using my WWB JHP ammo for target practice. Thanks for the test, I definitely won't be buying any more WWB.
Yep 😎👊
Hey Tools, thanks for another great test. Keep up the good work Sir! 👍👍👊
Appreciate that!😎👊
Great video Tools! You ever give much thought to doing some reloading videos? Maybe reloading and then some testing in the jell? Kinda like going though a reloading manual starting with the lowest load and progressing to the max load showing the results in the jell.
Sorry if that sounds stupid. Brand new to reloading and just thought that would be interesting. Not sure if most of your viewers are into that stuff or not
Thank you sir. I had intentions early on of doing something like that, but time and YT has put it on the back burner. I still want to eventually do a little of that and have more than everything I need to do it except that time.😆.
Thanks for responding Tools. It would be kind of neat to see you review such and such brand and we see the performance of that brand then you work up a load to out perform the brand name manufacturer or something similar
I have become addicted to your videos. Just out of curiosity, what state are you in?
Thanks for posting your test results. As expected, the White box offerings aren't exemplary. I use white box ammo strictly for range or competition. It's very reliable in it's feeding, firing, and extraction.
Thank you for another great video. You saved me some money for sure. Happy New Year.
Love the budget ammo tests!
This was my first carry round when I first started carrying guns over 10 years ago. I thought all hollow points were created equally at the time.
I'm glad I didn't get into any trouble during that time.
I found this test surprising because of my experiences with this round. I’ve shot a few things with it and recovered the bullet. I had picture perfect expansion on a snowman years ago. This has been my carry round for years. I guess I might have to reevaluate that choice.
At least they all lit off.I had a bunch of WWB FMJs that did not fire when breaking in a new 1911 last year.switched to armscor and all went off and back to WWB and still got a few duds.Gun fires everything else no problem.Any one else get this before?
thanks for letting us know how they perform. looks like we are paying too much for these rounds. thanks again and I registered a likek.
Great job Brian!
Thank you sir!😎👊
Just goes to show how much advancement in projectile design has occurred in the past 30yrs..... bullets designed in the 1980s expand some of the time under ideal conditions.... modern bullets expand almost always and under many different conditions (ie. barriers). That said 230gr 45acp will wreck somebody's day even with the worst projectile.
Yep. It's still a big ol hole.
I’m thinking about using these and putting some silicone caulking in the hollow point….like a gold dot gen2…..
Ball is looking better to me. Thanks!
I would run the projectiles but load mine spicy. After seeing your recoil i could tell their not up to speed
😎👊
Congrats on the 61k Buddy
Appreciate that, my friend!😎👊
I like seeing these tests of basic ammo.
👍😊 have you ever shot a fmj after a hp failed to see if there’s any difference?
Great video tools, thank you and happy New year 🎊. Winchester white box is like the big fat girl at the school dance, she's nice to talk to you but you really don't want to take her home.
Thank you sir.😂😂😂
Is it possible that the Taurus has a much better barrel and that influenced the test?
They don’t bonded the lead and copper are apart on the 4-1/4 inch fired bullet.
Popped that 75 yard steel 3 times 😮😮😮 LOL 😂!
Thanks !
😜
I wonder if the barrel rate of twist would make a difference in expansion.