Came here from Fuslie's twitch Lots of streamers are getting copyright striked based on clips from YEARS ago unfortunately Gonna watch this video after stream Thanks for making this!
I remember 2-3 years ago when some people (Mostly viewers, not partners) were saying things like "RUclips is trash. On Twitch I can play any music that I want to play." Well, hold on for a second. I mean, it was quite clear that this would happen earlier or later. Twitch is no "Copyright-free" space in the internet where you can play anything that you want. Streamers will have to adapt.
Sadly on YT, the burden’s not on the company to prove that they own the content that they claimed. This is the big gaping hole in the system. If your content gets claimed and you counter, the counter goes back to the person who claimed, not to YT. It’s up to the claimer to decide if they want to be a decent human being or not and release the claim YT never gets involved.
The AstroNerdBoy To his credit he may not have encountered the horrible content ID process and there is a lot of misinformation floating around out there about it, even from YT themselves
I should say there is a correction here. They have 90 days to prove they have the rights to the content, and if they dont provide it, then its given up. If they do provide proof then it either stays or they can just straight up DMCA take down it and give you a strike. 3rd option is they see it doesn't fall under their copy right claim and they drop it before the 90 days. Usually it is a bot doing the claims and then a real person will check when it is disputed. RUclips steps in at 90 days or if you dispute the proof as being false. Remember, this is youtube finding a way to avoid people going to court over all of these.
The biggest problem with DMCA (the law) is there's no real checks and balances for false claims, and this flows into how platforms implement their tools.
1:50 >> its 1x Warning and 3x Strike >>> Warnings just wont expire unlike CR Strikes do. 2:44 >> They get Content ID partner and use build in system to track footage for claims OR they can use external software that scrubs YT video keywords/titles (this is not really that effective for looking 5 sec clip). As for claims for 5 sec clip claims >> By law it matters not if its 1 sec or 40 minutes >> its Copyright LAW violation (since fair use can only be argued and determined in Court) This is not about what is right or wrong >> this is what Copyright LAW allows You to do. 3:36 - Major publishers have their own Content ID partner tools and CMS system access >> they don't need these bottom feeders. 4:13 >> Sure You can "Dispute a claim" BUT for until You successfully end this process(win a dispute), You are LOOSING access YT account features. 4:22 >> No, company has no burned of proof on YT >> they are the ones reviewing Your dispute and can reject it. Once that happens then You can file an appeal >> this is where pre-trial process starts >> Company needs to take You to Court in order to dispute this appeal. No system is free of abuse. 5:07 >> Its "Content ID Claim" >> no strikes or damage to Your account status/feature >>just a monetary claim Copyright Strike aka DMCA >> even single strike can cripple Your account, with 4 in total (1x warning) can BAN You from ALL accounts on YT (and creating new ones) + in some severe cases YT can terminated access to ALL Google products (Gmail...) 5:11 >> its not difficult at all >> 1 piece of musing across multiple videos can generate hundreds of strikes >> Terminate Your YT carrier. Devin >> really enjoy Your stream re-uploads >> make more with Gootecks for sure!! Numbers might not show demand but its there if You chop episodes with him to focused 10 min subject You can cover Have a good one!
I don’t understand why someone deserves every dime of a content creator. I feel like the only way they should be allow to do that is if they are acting or portraying to be that said person or selling a product or content that’s doesn’t belong to them or ripping full content and reuploading. It helps companies more for free advertising or other content creators being FT on other platforms.
I tried looking into getting licenses for some not even mainstream songs and it is all so convoluted and opaque that it is basically impossible for a single person or small company to operate legally...
"music will not become a problem because twitch is not big enough". Well after the corona-outbreak and the influx of viewers because of it it has now become a problem. Crazy how in a way he predicted this will happen if Twitch gets big enough.
I follow streamer bans on twitter and I have noticed a lot of 1 day bans for copyright. My advice to streamers is never stream music you don't have a licence to and never watch a RUclips video on stream unless you either have permission or are doing in a way that is fair use. Boneclinks got 6 copyright strikes and got his channel taken down even though they were fake.
I could see the exact same applying to singleplayer, story driven games, visual novel games, etc. being streamed in their entirety. I know I've watched many streams of games of these types, where seeing the content is basically the same experience as playing it, and I have no desire to buy them after, even though I was interested before.
Couldn't music form a similar symbiotic relationship with Twitch streams as video games? I quite often look for a music video if I hear them on a stream or in a video.
Facts. They just got too comfy with them playing copyrighted music all nonchalant. I do believe the copyright laws need to be looked at though. Should be interesting.
From my understanding, it is not a "false" DMCA claim. it is people who don't own the rights are making the DMCA claims. But ALL the claims were valid because CBS did not give permission to stream their content.
You can permanently banned as example when you threatens with Violence or you use a Viewer/Follower Bot someone is permanently banned for shooting with a gun accidentally
So how come people can use copyright music on Instagram or Twitter and it's ok? I've seen "influencer" accounts that rely solely on copyrighted music for their content and make tons of money through IG. This whole "what's allowed and what's not" thing is insane. Good creators who put 2 seconds of a song, or something that even SOUNDS like the song, get claimed but then others don't and I don't understand it. It seems very discouraging to want to create content because of that notion that a blurb of something can get striked or claimed.
Facebook has a deal with the big companies to allow their creators to use copy right music. Since they own Instagram it can be cleared there and Twitter probably does something similar.
@@jacoblindsey6888 oh well then that would mean they didn't own the right there and the automated bot system caught it on FB but not insta. -shrug- I dont know their inner workings much. None of us will. We can just observe and note that there is music you can play on FB live that is allowed but not on other platforms
You gave RUclips way to much credit for their claim system in this video. Still this was pretty crazy to really hear about everything. I know people have said forever that Twitch is going to have to change its rules and policies but like you said its really hard to monetize on Twitch and just isn't big enough. All it is going to take it one big company to get involved and shit will go down.
In the light of recent news, i would say, some parts of this video didn't age very well. "music will not become a problem because twitch is not big enough"
Someone should sue joseph Wisner and his company grayzone for false DMCA claims. Twitch and Amazon needs to protect their streamers, otherwise they lose viewers and revenue.
The problem with these claims is you are guilty before proven innocent , which in the case of YT you rarely get to prove yourself and when you do u lost most of the money you could’ve made. It’s lazy on YT part and they don’t wanna take any responsibility and just wanna keep using creators and let them be bullied by claimers
Devin was talking about people doing illegally dmca on streamers but can't those people easily just do it legally? Get in contact with a large corporation and say you'll dmca for them for 20% of the revenue just like youtube
"We will see an uptick in DMCA cases on Twitch and this has already effected streamers like..." Effect= the thing making a difference Affect= Make a difference to something
ToS are pretty clear. I'm not a Twitch streamer or in the music industry but they make money off of every stream. As DN explained it's not surprising why nobody has gone after TTV yet. Twitch is likely unable to do anything and this will crumble the platform if people don't adapt. If you don't own the rights to the music you shouldn't use it. Simple.
I'm not entirely familiar with the tv-show watching, so maybe this isn't relevant.... but wouldn't Twitch be protected at least for shows on Amazon Prime? Obviously there's more that aren't on Prime than are, but I feel this would at least mitigate the problem somewhat?
Twitch is protected there because they have a deal with ( well are owned by) Amazon but Devin is talking about people watching full episodes of shows that are still airing on TV or shows where there is no deal for someone to stream it
You basically called out Trainwrecks directly when u said people shouldn't watch full episodes on Twitch... Dude literally streams Gordon Ramsey's shows for views and donos and nobody calls him out on it...
He got notified and is working with the company for Hells Kitchen and all of Gordon Ramsey's episodes. He even went into detail about him using the content while discussing this with them... But, he still streams full episodes of South park now for the same thing, lol.
Twitch's laxness on streaming copyrighted material is borderline negligible imo. When I first checked out the platform, I was totally shocked by how many people play popular songs while streaming. Didn't even realize so many people were streaming full TV episodes. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next several years
Ironically, you don’t have permission to stream or make RUclips videos of any games, let’s take fortnite for example. I’m pretty sure that technically Epic Games can shut down any fortnite channel if they wanted to. They just won’t, because they get exposure from it. But I’m just sayin that your comment doesn’t really make sense in that perspective.
20:55 >> Twitch its Copyright LAW abuse heaven in compare to YT. On Twitch You can create/improve engagement of Your stream by playing popular songs WHILE on YT if You play just ONE song Your Stream is TERMINATED. Yeah these songs are blocked in a VOD but nobody cares about that anyways - money is made on stream. I don't think this is fair to RUclipsrs. 23:52 >> sure You can enforce that via automation >> Twitch compresses Your stream on the fly, before its send to public, during that time it can Content ID match content registered in the system an automatically terminate the stream (same as YT does). 33:52 >> its not easy at all. If they do exactly what You are saying, they will be immediately sued into oblivion. Copyright LAW is binary >> You either broke it or not (Fair use You can argue in court - so there is nothing in between) You cant advise Your users to "Avoid stealing cars...but its ok if You keep stealing bikes and stuff" :) >> this would be a disaster to Twitch. Plausible deniability >> this is what Twitch rides on for now (same as TikTOK with their lack of music license lol)
0:32 Its not different on YT >> DMCA its a LAW and both platforms are bound to obey it (as long DMCA form is filled out correctly a corporation has no legal right to reject it*)
![BRASIL vs. URUGUAY [1-1] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-hWBAuxF1eY/mqdefault.jpg)
Came here from Fuslie's twitch
Lots of streamers are getting copyright striked based on clips from YEARS ago unfortunately
Gonna watch this video after stream
Thanks for making this!
This one aged well lol
I remember 2-3 years ago when some people (Mostly viewers, not partners) were saying things like "RUclips is trash. On Twitch I can play any music that I want to play." Well, hold on for a second. I mean, it was quite clear that this would happen earlier or later. Twitch is no "Copyright-free" space in the internet where you can play anything that you want. Streamers will have to adapt.
He called it
Just came back to say that you called it
Wildfires are started...
Sadly on YT, the burden’s not on the company to prove that they own the content that they claimed. This is the big gaping hole in the system. If your content gets claimed and you counter, the counter goes back to the person who claimed, not to YT. It’s up to the claimer to decide if they want to be a decent human being or not and release the claim
YT never gets involved.
Until you tweet at them and make a video and rally the community*. Ya it's fucking stupid as hell.
Yep. Devin is making it sound like YT is pretty great on the copyright front when in fact they are utter rubbish.
The AstroNerdBoy To his credit he may not have encountered the horrible content ID process and there is a lot of misinformation floating around out there about it, even from YT themselves
Pupsker Too true! If you don’t have a battalion of pitch-wielding angry villagers, there is no hope
I should say there is a correction here. They have 90 days to prove they have the rights to the content, and if they dont provide it, then its given up. If they do provide proof then it either stays or they can just straight up DMCA take down it and give you a strike. 3rd option is they see it doesn't fall under their copy right claim and they drop it before the 90 days.
Usually it is a bot doing the claims and then a real person will check when it is disputed. RUclips steps in at 90 days or if you dispute the proof as being false.
Remember, this is youtube finding a way to avoid people going to court over all of these.
Thanks for the informative video Devin!
The biggest problem with DMCA (the law) is there's no real checks and balances for false claims, and this flows into how platforms implement their tools.
the biggest problem with false claims is that the people who are doing them aren't thrown in jail.
@Immersive Very true, it's also because the USA copyright law are also behind the times.
1:50 >> its 1x Warning and 3x Strike >>> Warnings just wont expire unlike CR Strikes do.
2:44 >> They get Content ID partner and use build in system to track footage for claims OR they can use external software that scrubs YT video keywords/titles (this is not really that effective for looking 5 sec clip).
As for claims for 5 sec clip claims >> By law it matters not if its 1 sec or 40 minutes >> its Copyright LAW violation (since fair use can only be argued and determined in Court)
This is not about what is right or wrong >> this is what Copyright LAW allows You to do.
3:36 - Major publishers have their own Content ID partner tools and CMS system access >> they don't need these bottom feeders.
4:13 >> Sure You can "Dispute a claim" BUT for until You successfully end this process(win a dispute), You are LOOSING access YT account features.
4:22 >> No, company has no burned of proof on YT >> they are the ones reviewing Your dispute and can reject it.
Once that happens then You can file an appeal >> this is where pre-trial process starts >> Company needs to take You to Court in order to dispute this appeal.
No system is free of abuse.
5:07 >> Its "Content ID Claim" >> no strikes or damage to Your account status/feature >>just a monetary claim
Copyright Strike aka DMCA >> even single strike can cripple Your account, with 4 in total (1x warning) can BAN You from ALL accounts on YT (and creating new ones) + in some severe cases YT can terminated access to ALL Google products (Gmail...)
5:11 >> its not difficult at all >> 1 piece of musing across multiple videos can generate hundreds of strikes >> Terminate Your YT carrier.
Devin >> really enjoy Your stream re-uploads >> make more with Gootecks for sure!!
Numbers might not show demand but its there if You chop episodes with him to focused 10 min subject You can cover
Have a good one!
10:39 wasn’t expecting a 100 gecs mention in a Devin Nash video
I don’t understand why someone deserves every dime of a content creator. I feel like the only way they should be allow to do that is if they are acting or portraying to be that said person or selling a product or content that’s doesn’t belong to them or ripping full content and reuploading. It helps companies more for free advertising or other content creators being FT on other platforms.
I tried looking into getting licenses for some not even mainstream songs and it is all so convoluted and opaque that it is basically impossible for a single person or small company to operate legally...
"music will not become a problem because twitch is not big enough".
Well after the corona-outbreak and the influx of viewers because of it it has now become a problem.
Crazy how in a way he predicted this will happen if Twitch gets big enough.
crazy ? no logical ? yes
good? grammar no?
Can we copystrike Alinity now??
Why? You really want to see people fail don’t you? just goes to show you where your at in life.
Damn, he called it
I follow streamer bans on twitter and I have noticed a lot of 1 day bans for copyright. My advice to streamers is never stream music you don't have a licence to and never watch a RUclips video on stream unless you either have permission or are doing in a way that is fair use. Boneclinks got 6 copyright strikes and got his channel taken down even though they were fake.
So is XqC watching the Ted talk riddles infringement of their copyright? Is watching clips on YT of TLC an infringement? The rules seem so vague to me
I could see the exact same applying to singleplayer, story driven games, visual novel games, etc. being streamed in their entirety. I know I've watched many streams of games of these types, where seeing the content is basically the same experience as playing it, and I have no desire to buy them after, even though I was interested before.
This feels like every week we talk about this shit
Good and informative video
Easy sub though love your content so far
I hope you create a video about yesterday's stream. It was good and could be a good source of information for people.
What I'm waiting for is one day for the FCC to require Twitch streamers to hold a license to "broadcast" over the internet.
Oi!
Wow and look where we are right now ! Crazy ! You knew this would start being an issue
Couldn't music form a similar symbiotic relationship with Twitch streams as video games? I quite often look for a music video if I hear them on a stream or in a video.
no because music industry is run by fossils
@@timothycypriot8182 this is the sad reality.=(
Gaming needs streaming and Twitch. Music not so much.
Really great Video
About time this happened twitch streams feel above the law while youtube streams get pounded. it's nice to see the playing field changed.
Facts. They just got too comfy with them playing copyrighted music all nonchalant. I do believe the copyright laws need to be looked at though. Should be interesting.
2 words. Transformative Content.
If you think most twitch streamers would pass the bar for transformative content you dreamin
Remember the first time twitch started to take down streams for THEIR MUSIC???? and monstercat stepped up and let them use their music royalty free??
yoo monstercat were legends back in the day everyone was bumping to that shit
does it matter if its full episodes
or just part of it
Great video
copyright was bound to fuck twitch hard at some point, but I doubt it's gonna peak now
This looks huge. Hope nothing go wrong with twitch.
I am honestly using pretzel for now on an will make my own music on stream ! So sick of this shit!
From my understanding, it is not a "false" DMCA claim. it is people who don't own the rights are making the DMCA claims. But ALL the claims were valid because CBS did not give permission to stream their content.
You can permanently banned as example when you threatens with Violence or you use a Viewer/Follower Bot someone is permanently banned for shooting with a gun accidentally
Wow 😂 you beat me to this by 3 months
So how come people can use copyright music on Instagram or Twitter and it's ok? I've seen "influencer" accounts that rely solely on copyrighted music for their content and make tons of money through IG.
This whole "what's allowed and what's not" thing is insane. Good creators who put 2 seconds of a song, or something that even SOUNDS like the song, get claimed but then others don't and I don't understand it. It seems very discouraging to want to create content because of that notion that a blurb of something can get striked or claimed.
Facebook has a deal with the big companies to allow their creators to use copy right music. Since they own Instagram it can be cleared there and Twitter probably does something similar.
@@HarlesBently ok but then why is a song muted on FB but not IG? It just seems really inconsistent with the rules
@@jacoblindsey6888 oh well then that would mean they didn't own the right there and the automated bot system caught it on FB but not insta. -shrug- I dont know their inner workings much. None of us will. We can just observe and note that there is music you can play on FB live that is allowed but not on other platforms
You gave RUclips way to much credit for their claim system in this video. Still this was pretty crazy to really hear about everything. I know people have said forever that Twitch is going to have to change its rules and policies but like you said its really hard to monetize on Twitch and just isn't big enough. All it is going to take it one big company to get involved and shit will go down.
i caught that 100 gecs mention..saw them live. they were insane. love them haha
In the light of recent news, i would say, some parts of this video didn't age very well.
"music will not become a problem because twitch is not big enough"
Ronpaulitshappening!.gif
More content please
Someone should sue joseph Wisner and his company grayzone for false DMCA claims. Twitch and Amazon needs to protect their streamers, otherwise they lose viewers and revenue.
The problem with these claims is you are guilty before proven innocent , which in the case of YT you rarely get to prove yourself and when you do u lost most of the money you could’ve made. It’s lazy on YT part and they don’t wanna take any responsibility and just wanna keep using creators and let them be bullied by claimers
Devin was talking about people doing illegally dmca on streamers but can't those people easily just do it legally? Get in contact with a large corporation and say you'll dmca for them for 20% of the revenue just like youtube
BRING BACK ICE
it was this video lollol RIP
😳
"We will see an uptick in DMCA cases on Twitch and this has already effected streamers like..."
Effect= the thing making a difference
Affect= Make a difference to something
ToS are pretty clear. I'm not a Twitch streamer or in the music industry but they make money off of every stream. As DN explained it's not surprising why nobody has gone after TTV yet. Twitch is likely unable to do anything and this will crumble the platform if people don't adapt. If you don't own the rights to the music you shouldn't use it. Simple.
I'm not entirely familiar with the tv-show watching, so maybe this isn't relevant.... but wouldn't Twitch be protected at least for shows on Amazon Prime? Obviously there's more that aren't on Prime than are, but I feel this would at least mitigate the problem somewhat?
Twitch is protected there because they have a deal with ( well are owned by) Amazon but Devin is talking about people watching full episodes of shows that are still airing on TV or shows where there is no deal for someone to stream it
Twitch = Big dumb
Just so many people use youtube nowadays. My grandad who is 71 likes to watch animal attack video ffs
I love the fake ass thumbnail of like a lion fighting a grizzly bear. But I would say the insect fights are the best fight videos. Gotta love youtube!
You basically called out Trainwrecks directly when u said people shouldn't watch full episodes on Twitch... Dude literally streams Gordon Ramsey's shows for views and donos and nobody calls him out on it...
He got notified and is working with the company for Hells Kitchen and all of Gordon Ramsey's episodes. He even went into detail about him using the content while discussing this with them... But, he still streams full episodes of South park now for the same thing, lol.
@@101yak He has permission for streaming the southpark episodes.
Second baby Kappa
irrelevant
Twitch's laxness on streaming copyrighted material is borderline negligible imo. When I first checked out the platform, I was totally shocked by how many people play popular songs while streaming. Didn't even realize so many people were streaming full TV episodes. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next several years
This is why I'm building up a library of content for my games. I plan to have documentation of rights on hand.
Ironically, you don’t have permission to stream or make RUclips videos of any games, let’s take fortnite for example. I’m pretty sure that technically Epic Games can shut down any fortnite channel if they wanted to. They just won’t, because they get exposure from it. But I’m just sayin that your comment doesn’t really make sense in that perspective.
@@Th0rn3d Fair Use (Transformative and/or Critique)
fs
LOL twitch is a joke anymore...
Literally all just speculation from defensive thoughts.
4 seconds ago? pog
20:55 >> Twitch its Copyright LAW abuse heaven in compare to YT.
On Twitch You can create/improve engagement of Your stream by playing popular songs WHILE on YT if You play just ONE song Your Stream is TERMINATED.
Yeah these songs are blocked in a VOD but nobody cares about that anyways - money is made on stream.
I don't think this is fair to RUclipsrs.
23:52 >> sure You can enforce that via automation >> Twitch compresses Your stream on the fly, before its send to public, during that time it can Content ID match content registered in the system an automatically terminate the stream (same as YT does).
33:52 >> its not easy at all. If they do exactly what You are saying, they will be immediately sued into oblivion.
Copyright LAW is binary >> You either broke it or not (Fair use You can argue in court - so there is nothing in between)
You cant advise Your users to "Avoid stealing cars...but its ok if You keep stealing bikes and stuff" :) >> this would be a disaster to Twitch.
Plausible deniability >> this is what Twitch rides on for now (same as TikTOK with their lack of music license lol)
Now streamers are mad that they’re getting rightfully DMCA’d because “the music they played was from like 2-3yrs ago” boohoo
0:32 Its not different on YT >> DMCA its a LAW and both platforms are bound to obey it (as long DMCA form is filled out correctly a corporation has no legal right to reject it*)
hell ya perma them all :D
letting the twitch piggy grow until its ready for harvesting