My DMCA Resource Master Guide is live. It informs broadcasters and helps navigate this confusing subject. Google Page Link: bit.ly/DevinDMCAGuidePage Google Doc Link: bit.ly/DevinDMCAGuide Twitter Thread: twitter.com/DevinNash/status/1270877773955870720 Share for awareness!
One of the biggest issues with Twitch is and that broadcasters fall into, is that they 'claim' you can 'stream music' from Spotify and another company (can't remember the name off hand) while on your streams because TWITCH has been given this permission to do so. What they don't tell you is, TWITCH has that permission and is paying for a rebroadcasting license from those companies for themselves, NOT for the STREAMERS on the platform. TWITCH also talks about this in their TOS areas that you CAN broadcast music on YOUR stream only IF YOU are paying for a rebroadcasting license thru ANY of the online streaming services. BUT, you can only do this under the listing of either a LLC or some type of higher form of corporation. And, how that works IS, you tell the company that you're paying for rebroadcasting rights, that you are going to play X station or streaming service at X location (in this case a website address) and that IS the ONLY place you can play said music for PUBLIC broadcasting and be within the limitation of THE LAW. I'm just a small streamer. I try to NEVER play 'TOP' songs on my stream and I almost NEVER stream music an entire stream anyways. I also tend to stick to indie EDM artists that are likely to never do DMCA requests because they actually WANT their songs out there to a larger audience. I mean, maybe one day when they've gotten a big enough audience from exposure they could, but honestly the likeliness of that happening is still probably slim to none. I'd also like to note, or so I've noticed, if the music is super low on volume, the automatic detection bot, doesn't even detect the music to begin with. I'm not telling people to skirt the BOT by lowering your audible level, I AM just saying that the BOT uses audible level to detect and determine if you are breaking TOS with music. This was a very nice video to put out so that people can be more informed about how to handle their streams.
I have a favorite streamer who plays top songs at a lower volume now. I'm a streamer on twitch as well and I'm a 90s-2011 music type of guy I was going to play those types of songs on my stream for the nostalgia. Now because of this DMCA law I'm now debating wether I should or not, it seems risky because the top songs were back then instead of now imo. What would u recommend? Keep in my mind I will only be livestreaming my songs not put them in VODs or Clips.
You seemed to have missed an important point - safe harbor status requires you to have a policy/process for excluding repeat offenders as well, this is where the "strikes" come into play, but you are right in that how they enforce that part is up to Twitch, but it still needs to actually prevent repeat offenders (take RUclips as an example where its slightly different, but still has that concept of tracking and dealing with repeat offenders).
I thought this too, he's quite off on that point and is a dangerous precedent to be saying imo. The DMCA does require service providers to have a system for terminating the accounts of repeat infringers. Doesn't necessarily have to be 3 strikes, though. Article: 17 USC §512 (i)(1)(A) So yes, the 3 strikes part are on Twitch side but not the termination of accounts. Repeat offenders (in eyes of the law) have to be terminated, Twitch has NO say in this which is why they can't do anything for the creators.
I think you missed the point where if twitch did this to literally everyone (because +90% twitch streamers have/had use popular music/songs, and almost all top/popular streamers did it) theres no way they are going to dmca claim or shut down all their popular streamers. Because that would be suicide like he said, twitch wouldnt have a business anymore and wouldnt make any money
@@NaruBrilu No because ''Safe Haven'' isn't a choice, they can't choose to not ban their creators. Safe Haven is section in the law that provides some immunity to the provider to simply put, the blame on creators. If they DON'T comply with the repeat offender part of the Safe Haven section, they have no choice but to ban. This is why they advised everyone to delete all the clips with copyrighted music on it. Twitch isn't our friend in this case they're saving themselves until they figure out some tools for us to deal with them.
This was not an overreaction, rather an underreaction. The majority of streamers and Twitch community as whole is unaware of the severity of the situation and how much worse it will become. I recommend you watch yesterday's stream of djWHEAT where he had a conversation with a lawyer who deals with DMCA and copyright law. This isn't just about clips and VOD's, this is about using any copyrighted and unlicensed material on your stream, period.
Most of the djs dont use vods because they sell their music. They might not even completely own their music if they are signed. Their streams do still get clipped tho.
I discovered you through Haris's Alpha Gaming videos & honestly your analysis is very helpful. I have thousands upon thousands of clips that would have this issue... and I am freaking out so thank you for this.
I absolutely love your content bro. You are my video-game lawyer / entertainer / news channel. How people can dislike your videos is beyond me. You explain arguments thoroughly and very clearly. Keep up the great work man 👍
Some games have player licensing for player use for things in their terms of service. Final Fantasy XIV tells players when they get the Bard class (which has a full orchestral performance feature built into the game) that they are not allowed to play music that does not originate from the game, and even that has a noticeable track that isn't allowed because of copyright.
What is your take on music streamers streaming covers? It’s pretty grey. Twitch is really pushing music right now so it seems unlikely they’d just nuke the category
Streaming their OWN covers of copyrighted music? Not a grey area at all. Per Twitch: "Cover Song Performance - Performance of a song owned by someone else, with the exception of a live performance in your Twitch stream. If you do perform a cover song in a live Twitch stream, please make a good faith effort to perform the song as written by the songwriter, and create all audio elements yourself, without incorporating instrumental tracks, music recordings, or any other recorded elements owned by others."
From what others and twitch have said basically you’d have to play your own instruments and sing if you want over the instruments your playing. No karaoke type covers
Thank you so much for these videos Devin. Thing is, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why some streamers are deleting their clips because they’re being told too by TWITCH. It may be a panic move BUT if you’re being told by the company to do it, why wouldn’t you? Also, we’ve seen Twitch ban people for NOTHING or be completely inconsistent with their banning style, so I could see smaller streamers for SURE taking a hit if they get DMCA’d or even permabanned.
Cam sites are next. Where the person puts a dmca claim on their content to prevent people from stealing their content, while stealing other people's content at the same time.
Spot on - Twitch might be a little slow at times, but they have a smart management. They can't risk to lose their biggest streamers respectively a ton of the smaller ones that don't have an agent and direct contact to twitch. They won't mass ban folks.
WHY are they issuing the DMCA takedowns in the first place? It makes a little more sense on RUclips where people upload individual songs in studio quality, but even on RUclips, if a creator uses a song doesn't the company attempt to farm their video's ad revenue before blocking its usage completely? This is even less prevalent on Twitch which is mostly live streaming views. I don't see how having a small portion of your song in a clip is bad for business. It just gives the artist more exposure and increases how many people are likely to pay for song downloads, merch, etc.
An artist like drake doesn't need more "exposure " when hes the biggest rapper active and also if you have 700 people in you're stream and your playing a drake album off spotify your the only person paying for it and the people in you're stream aren't being counted as streams so they're losing out on money and there's no guarantee a viewer goes and supports the artist
My biggest AND I MEAN BIGGEST question is: why not implement a system where twitch streaming gives a small ad revenue per song used so that while anyone who views said song is listening to said song, the music industry gets a percentage of the money? If I recall correctly that is how Spotify works, where for every so many times you hear a sing on Spotify that song will generate a small percentage of money to the record deal allowing for them to make a profit, this will allow streamers to have anything on in the background while simultaneously allowing the record deals to make money and simultaneously making twitch WAY more popular due to the fact that not only was it complying with the record dealers and creating revenue for all involved parties? Wouldn't this be a better system?
I'm not a lawyer (but am training to be one and took IP law last summer), not deleting those clips and vods allows them to continue to exist and you may catch further strikes. Sure, when the takedown is filed the content is struck, but if you have further offending content when they scan again for their next song of choice, sooner or later you are going to get booted. Honestly, as far as the live goes, that stuff is already used and engaged. UFC and other providers, NFL, etc. pretty quickly catch people paying stuff live on different platforms.
Love you’re videos Mr Nash I actually really enjoy you’re content you e helped me grow and I use your advice currently at 36 average viewers thanks to a combo of you and the alpha gaming channel
I nuked everything to start fresh and out of panic, myself and my bud Jamie were saying "can't wait to see Devin's take on this" thanks for being so quick with this vid.
Twitch is required by law to stop repeat offenders. There are 4 parts to staying within safe harbor. The three strikes is to prevent repeat offenders and twitch by law is required to remove that repeat offender from their platform. Twitch suggested deleting clips and vows to prevent future dmcas. Also note Spotify streaming is against Spotify tos
This overreaction is insane. Imagine deleting YEARS of content without double checking if you REALLY have to... Even though Twitch told them to they could have waited for some more information. I'm assuming a "strike" would not ban them immediately so why not wait a few days?
a "strike" could be there last one.. that's devin's whole point. There are many streamers who push terms of service to their breaking point and are on their 2nd strike already. if they roll out that last strike in massive quanities then they could lose a LOT of their revenue.
He didn't mention they're legally required to ban accounts that have too many copyright infringements, that's why RUclips also has a three strike rule. I assume Twitch would rather not go to court over it because losing can have major consequences.
So something this could lead to in the future would be allegorical to Sky TV in the UK. You pay £50 a month for a sports package to watch all the games they have licensed for the year, be it football, rugby, golf, whatever. However if you wish to show these games in a public place, say a bar or cafe, you pay £3000 a month for the same subscription. You want to buy the game its £50, you want a streamer licence, £3000. No more small streamers, no more variety or one off playthroughs, would be terrible for Twitch but ultimately the decision would fall to game devs not Twitch. It is clear these laws are not fit for purpose and need to be reworked.
I love to blast maps in poe with snoop dogg eminem and 90s rap in general. Different level of energy for grinding then lofi but I guess no choice now until twitch makes some vod-editing tools
You also tapped on this issue back then when you were discussion about "twitch Contracts" in what does it mean you have contract and are you an employee of twitch. Overall good explanation and as always very informative.
This is like a game of hot potatoes: lawyer throw that potato to twitch, twitch throw it to streamers, streamers catch it and there's no one left to get it.... but they must EAT IT and say DELICIOUS ! .....unless they don't like potatoes... did i get this right?
That sounds awesome the first time you read it, but it would be a poor choice for an artist to make. Think about the groups that do similar things to that, like the pretzel rock stuff for example, they offer a relatively small library of songs that you can play for a small licensing fee or by having a bot spam your chat. Sure there are some people that like their music, but there are many more that liked it when they first showed up, and hate it now because it's the same songs over and over on basically every stream. If a single artist "sponsored" a streamer, it would be the same like 20 songs over and over nonstop, and the more streamers they sponsored, the faster everyone would grow to hate their music.
odd, i get what's going on, but i've gotten tons of vods with the highlight going "copyright content was detected and muted" or something along those lines when reviewing my vods, i just let them be and never gotten a strike for them lol
love the video, but then where does this leave rhythm game streamers (beat saber, Just Dance, OSU etc). The music is then both game music but also considered level 1 for the top hits in these games (for example 7 rings by Ariana Grande is in Just Dance 2020 with 2 different choreography options). I know you are not a lawyer, curious what your take is on this nonetheless. Littlesiha did receive a strike for Cake by the Ocean from a clip made in december of 2016.
One would Imagine that since the developer of these games had to get the license for each of the songs, that you would be on solid ground streaming the game, but when it comes to legal loopholes and companies using fuckery to secure more revenue...*shrug* could end poorly.
Live DMCA requests are not that much harder than those of VoDs. The main difference is that you are limited in how fast you can process the video. This means you will change from processing a single video at a time (per server) to processing multiple streams at once. Then there also needs to be tooling for extracting out the problem areas of streams with timestamps while the stream is still being progressed instead of at the end. It's really no harder than VoDs, but different design decisions must be made. Tooling around processing VoDs is much more mature, but it's only a matter of time before livestreams can be processed.
You can stream the song, just having the vod/clip of it is a legal no-no. But for as long as I've been around twitch has muted those portions when music stands out that could be legally risky. I just don't understand why it's a problem now 🤔
You cant even stream the songs. Those licenses are for personal use. If you play GTA and listen in-game radio and upload that gameplay to RUclips, there will be copyright claim. It's not any different with Twitch. In the future they will be scanning livestreams and not only vods and clips. This has been always problem, but Twitch is now so big that they start to care.
Devin this outro scared me really hard. I almost made a car crash thanks to you. Video is awesome tho. But... Where is this list for all the tier 5 content?
Question: I started a channel in Twitch, here in Brazil, and I´m doing simultaneous interpretation to the song (video clips from youtube). it is not a react, but is something like it, ´cause I´m translating the song to portuguese while it is playing. Can you tell if it is a Fair Use?
How is RUclips Live today solving the issue of livestreams and copyright music? I get that VOD's and clips can be muted with a new system from Twitch, but it will not solve the livestreams though?
If they have a bot that can scan vods, can't they also scan live streams? It doesn't seem like it would be that much of a jump to scan live streams and then issue a DMCA request in near-realtime. Though I don't know what the law says about how quickly twitch would need to respond to the DMCA request.. something like a 24-hour window would make it rather meaningless.
I think tom scott's video about copyright sums up the whole video with that the system is not broken but the system. Because if I would take a screenshot from a stream or yt video and sell it on a t-shirt or anything else then the streamer or ytber will be mad and sends a copyright strike or a DMCA. But if they getting a DMCA for wrongly using music its like they are right and big Company bad. Guys just watch the tom scott video "RUclips's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is." , And if you think only creators are in the bad, NO, RUclips had a huge campaign to stop the article 11, now 13, that they dont get sued for being a safe Harbor. Safe Harbors shouldn't exist cause small creators like lofi, indie, etc. can't sell any licenses to anybody cause safe Harbors exist. For example if a Radio show plays a Indie, lofi song they BUY a license from the artist (network, Compagny, Copyright Holder) so they are legaly allowed to play it, but a creator in a safe Harbor doesnt thats why they DMCA people so they hope the people will buy licenses.
The only thing I have to say to that is... Just because one streamer gets banned, doesn't mean im going to stop gifting subs. I'll find another streamer to support and give my hard earned cash to. But I do see your argument devin. If they ban so many streamers because they were on their last strike, those streamers are going to make a fuss over it and defame twitch until it's dead. all while transitioning to youtube.
So if the user doesn't remove the content before the strikes, they can still get banned. THIS is the problem, Twitch being too hard on the streamers (who make twitch their money). To protect yourself, to avoid strikes, you must remove your own content or Twitch will strike you when a DMCA is issued.
License is for personal use, so you would get strike. If nothing changes for good, people have to mute game musics and put copyright free music on background.
Always bet on stupid, even when it comes to running a business. Also, when it comes to game music, I got a copyright claim on a RUclips game play. It was for the intro song that happened to be playing on the load menu while I yammered with my chat. And weirdly enough, the music company singled out one song out of however many I had for this specific game.
I wonder if some people will hop over to YT Streaming cause of those dmca problems. Twitch had so much drama recently and instead of trying to make their service better, new issues pop up. Idk if there can be turning point where YT will take over, but it may be it :P
Or Mixer? Idk, let's all join Ninja I guess. I have a dumb dumb friend who supports and simps for Twitch. He is one of those who don't do their research. I don't even talk about it with him. He believes the streamers deserve it. The point Nash made that people make.
If you stream on youtube with copyrighted music, your stream will immediately get taken down after you finished. So basically - youtube is taking care of dmca for longer than twitch :-)
It's nice to believe that twitch won't delete 1000s of accounts, but I don't see any reason why they won't blow up smaller accounts as a scare tactic. Pretty sure youtube had no problems deleting accounts en masse back in the day. Never underestimate a company that managed to lose their biggest streamer to a dead streaming service.
My vids got deleted by them selves and I had no notice of a copy right strike only played music once. Then the rest was just gameplay no mic. I had no intention of deleting content except the one video. Still trying to figure out where they went or why they were gone
Hey ! I'm streamer too and my friend says "delete all clips" I say what the hell its a real and I'm not delete because we trying do something its really dumb and you save my life thank you
I feel like streamers should definitely consider making youtube channels where they can post stream highlights so they don't just have to throw away all of their old content completely
exactly they cant ban everyone for playing songs from small labels or indipendent artists. and these should see this more as an advertisement and will most likely not strike you (for example drdisrespects synthwave/retrowave backgroundmusic)
Is there a way to estimate Twitch's worst case scenario liability to rights holders versus the revenue the platform generates for them? If the first number is higher, I'd be making plans for post-Twitch employment.
If the music is owned by the game company you're not likely to be striked, if the music is general (and particularly if owned be major label) you probably will be.
There’s a problem with this that hasn’t been addressed as far as I can tell. What about the people who payed money to acquire a portion of a song as a ringtone and their phone rings in stream? That’s just using an example, but that shows how over the top most of the record labels are with this stuff.
Went through and deleted all my vods and clips with music before watching this 😔 just glad i saved the clips before deleting so i can atleast have the memories for myself
I find recommending people not to delete their clips to be rather irresponsible. I see why you're saying it, but what happens to the people that haven't played those 2 songs, but play music like that regularly. If they decide to pull the trigger on another song or 2, that could be hundreds of creators getting a strike for following your advice? Backup the ones most important to you, and delete everything imo. I don't see the point in leaving them there to catch a strike at some point down the road. Yeah all the ones with those 2 songs are gone, but doesn't mean the ones with the next song or two are gone. Your suggestions rely so heavily on twich implementing some kind of system before the music industry pulls the trigger on another song. They already have the tech, now all they need to do is add another song to it's library.
I've never really understood this shit. All it is is free advertisement for their songs/music . The amount of songs I've found from streamers is pretty substantial and I think one of the most common questions in twitch chat is "what song is this?" or "who sings this?"
To clear up something you said Creative Commons is not "copyright free" this is wrong it still under copyright and is works released under a license for different use cases some of which may not be OK for use in a stream as they have a non-commercial license attached. creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/au/ . Also in a lot of cases creative commons licencing requires attribution of the works so you will likely need to at least show the artist who created it if not a link too. It is possible that a DCMA takedown could still happen when using a CC work incorrectly.
technically no, they might not get flagged automatically (depending on the flagging system capabillities), but nightcore isn't actually legal, if the record labels wanted, youtube would have to remove all of the nightcore content on the platform as well.
![[🔴LIVE] 이재명 & 배소현 충격 불륜논란 난리났다! 호주의 한 호텔 내부 영상이 유출됐다! 김혜경, 법원에 이혼소송 제기! 민주 지금 아수라장!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fPDJnPxjBq0/mqdefault.jpg)
My DMCA Resource Master Guide is live. It informs broadcasters and helps navigate this confusing subject.
Google Page Link: bit.ly/DevinDMCAGuidePage
Google Doc Link: bit.ly/DevinDMCAGuide
Twitter Thread: twitter.com/DevinNash/status/1270877773955870720
Share for awareness!
Will you use time stamps for future videos?
This landslide was due to 2 songs??
Hooooooly hell, there’s a tsunami coming
not a question of if, its when.
4 songs actually, but 2 of the songs were only 1 person each iirc. Majority of the DMCAs were off 2 songs.
@@olo398 Too true! Granted, this has been a long train coming
You know Devin is serious when he bust out ms paint.
One of the biggest issues with Twitch is and that broadcasters fall into, is that they 'claim' you can 'stream music' from Spotify and another company (can't remember the name off hand) while on your streams because TWITCH has been given this permission to do so. What they don't tell you is, TWITCH has that permission and is paying for a rebroadcasting license from those companies for themselves, NOT for the STREAMERS on the platform. TWITCH also talks about this in their TOS areas that you CAN broadcast music on YOUR stream only IF YOU are paying for a rebroadcasting license thru ANY of the online streaming services. BUT, you can only do this under the listing of either a LLC or some type of higher form of corporation. And, how that works IS, you tell the company that you're paying for rebroadcasting rights, that you are going to play X station or streaming service at X location (in this case a website address) and that IS the ONLY place you can play said music for PUBLIC broadcasting and be within the limitation of THE LAW.
I'm just a small streamer. I try to NEVER play 'TOP' songs on my stream and I almost NEVER stream music an entire stream anyways. I also tend to stick to indie EDM artists that are likely to never do DMCA requests because they actually WANT their songs out there to a larger audience. I mean, maybe one day when they've gotten a big enough audience from exposure they could, but honestly the likeliness of that happening is still probably slim to none. I'd also like to note, or so I've noticed, if the music is super low on volume, the automatic detection bot, doesn't even detect the music to begin with. I'm not telling people to skirt the BOT by lowering your audible level, I AM just saying that the BOT uses audible level to detect and determine if you are breaking TOS with music.
This was a very nice video to put out so that people can be more informed about how to handle their streams.
I have a favorite streamer who plays top songs at a lower volume now. I'm a streamer on twitch as well and I'm a 90s-2011 music type of guy I was going to play those types of songs on my stream for the nostalgia. Now because of this DMCA law I'm now debating wether I should or not, it seems risky because the top songs were back then instead of now imo. What would u recommend? Keep in my mind I will only be livestreaming my songs not put them in VODs or Clips.
You seemed to have missed an important point - safe harbor status requires you to have a policy/process for excluding repeat offenders as well, this is where the "strikes" come into play, but you are right in that how they enforce that part is up to Twitch, but it still needs to actually prevent repeat offenders (take RUclips as an example where its slightly different, but still has that concept of tracking and dealing with repeat offenders).
I thought this too, he's quite off on that point and is a dangerous precedent to be saying imo.
The DMCA does require service providers to have a system for terminating the accounts of repeat infringers.
Doesn't necessarily have to be 3 strikes, though.
Article: 17 USC §512 (i)(1)(A)
So yes, the 3 strikes part are on Twitch side but not the termination of accounts. Repeat offenders (in eyes of the law) have to be terminated, Twitch has NO say in this which is why they can't do anything for the creators.
I think you missed the point where if twitch did this to literally everyone (because +90% twitch streamers have/had use popular music/songs, and almost all top/popular streamers did it) theres no way they are going to dmca claim or shut down all their popular streamers. Because that would be suicide like he said, twitch wouldnt have a business anymore and wouldnt make any money
@@NaruBrilu No because ''Safe Haven'' isn't a choice, they can't choose to not ban their creators. Safe Haven is section in the law that provides some immunity to the provider to simply put, the blame on creators.
If they DON'T comply with the repeat offender part of the Safe Haven section, they have no choice but to ban. This is why they advised everyone to delete all the clips with copyrighted music on it.
Twitch isn't our friend in this case they're saving themselves until they figure out some tools for us to deal with them.
This needs to be higher up
Would I get DMCA'd for playing any Rage Against The Machine? Because that would just be ironic...
Funny, but they are signed to a record label so it may not be up to them.
@@DrunkTalk Yeah, the artists/bands don't make those decisions unless they are independent. It's those awesome record label companies Kappa
This was not an overreaction, rather an underreaction. The majority of streamers and Twitch community as whole is unaware of the severity of the situation and how much worse it will become. I recommend you watch yesterday's stream of djWHEAT where he had a conversation with a lawyer who deals with DMCA and copyright law. This isn't just about clips and VOD's, this is about using any copyrighted and unlicensed material on your stream, period.
This felt like 5 minutes to me - teaches me 2 things. 1: I'm a big nerd and 2: your content is AMAZING. Thanks for explaining it so well Devin.
This is going to be interesting for the massive influx of DJs now present on the site
Not to mention Rhythm Game streamers
Well presumably DJs have properly licensed the music they are playing.
@@gyroninjamodder 100k a year for full licensing of all pop music, doubtful.
@@ph1lny3 presumbly any game that is centered around music like Just Dance is kinda of screwed. What kinda of defense do you use?
Most of the djs dont use vods because they sell their music. They might not even completely own their music if they are signed. Their streams do still get clipped tho.
Every streamer needs to listen to this before deleting clips.
this is no different than any other time someone has been DMCA'd
Thanks for taking the time Devin. Legend! Watched all the way through and really helped me understand it better.
I discovered you through Haris's Alpha Gaming videos & honestly your analysis is very helpful.
I have thousands upon thousands of clips that would have this issue... and I am freaking out so thank you for this.
I absolutely love your content bro. You are my video-game lawyer / entertainer / news channel. How people can dislike your videos is beyond me. You explain arguments thoroughly and very clearly. Keep up the great work man 👍
Me: So everything is copyright?
Devin: Always has been 🔫
This was the few bits of snow falling off a cliff. There's an avalanche coming.
The ending music touched my soul...good chat valuable information
Some games have player licensing for player use for things in their terms of service. Final Fantasy XIV tells players when they get the Bard class (which has a full orchestral performance feature built into the game) that they are not allowed to play music that does not originate from the game, and even that has a noticeable track that isn't allowed because of copyright.
What is your take on music streamers streaming covers? It’s pretty grey. Twitch is really pushing music right now so it seems unlikely they’d just nuke the category
Streaming their OWN covers of copyrighted music? Not a grey area at all. Per Twitch: "Cover Song Performance - Performance of a song owned by someone else, with the exception of a live performance in your Twitch stream. If you do perform a cover song in a live Twitch stream, please make a good faith effort to perform the song as written by the songwriter, and create all audio elements yourself, without incorporating instrumental tracks, music recordings, or any other recorded elements owned by others."
It’s not grey at all, it’s clearly illegal until musicians pay royalties just like RUclips covers give 50% of the ad revenue to the labels.
Nathan W.F we would if we could. We cannot get licensing. I’ve tried. Twitch needs to hold the license.
From what others and twitch have said basically you’d have to play your own instruments and sing if you want over the instruments your playing. No karaoke type covers
Thank you so much for these videos Devin. Thing is, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why some streamers are deleting their clips because they’re being told too by TWITCH. It may be a panic move BUT if you’re being told by the company to do it, why wouldn’t you? Also, we’ve seen Twitch ban people for NOTHING or be completely inconsistent with their banning style, so I could see smaller streamers for SURE taking a hit if they get DMCA’d or even permabanned.
Wait didnt they already mute the vods with copyrighted music.
its only clips and vods from iirc 2018 onward because of how twitches machine for muting clips and streams audio works
Cam sites are next. Where the person puts a dmca claim on their content to prevent people from stealing their content, while stealing other people's content at the same time.
Spot on - Twitch might be a little slow at times, but they have a smart management. They can't risk to lose their biggest streamers
respectively a ton of the smaller ones that don't have an agent and direct contact to twitch. They won't mass ban folks.
WHY are they issuing the DMCA takedowns in the first place? It makes a little more sense on RUclips where people upload individual songs in studio quality, but even on RUclips, if a creator uses a song doesn't the company attempt to farm their video's ad revenue before blocking its usage completely? This is even less prevalent on Twitch which is mostly live streaming views. I don't see how having a small portion of your song in a clip is bad for business. It just gives the artist more exposure and increases how many people are likely to pay for song downloads, merch, etc.
Because the music companies are stupid and greedy af.
An artist like drake doesn't need more "exposure " when hes the biggest rapper active and also if you have 700 people in you're stream and your playing a drake album off spotify your the only person paying for it and the people in you're stream aren't being counted as streams so they're losing out on money and there's no guarantee a viewer goes and supports the artist
My biggest AND I MEAN BIGGEST question is: why not implement a system where twitch streaming gives a small ad revenue per song used so that while anyone who views said song is listening to said song, the music industry gets a percentage of the money? If I recall correctly that is how Spotify works, where for every so many times you hear a sing on Spotify that song will generate a small percentage of money to the record deal allowing for them to make a profit, this will allow streamers to have anything on in the background while simultaneously allowing the record deals to make money and simultaneously making twitch WAY more popular due to the fact that not only was it complying with the record dealers and creating revenue for all involved parties? Wouldn't this be a better system?
Big brain
I'm not a lawyer (but am training to be one and took IP law last summer), not deleting those clips and vods allows them to continue to exist and you may catch further strikes. Sure, when the takedown is filed the content is struck, but if you have further offending content when they scan again for their next song of choice, sooner or later you are going to get booted.
Honestly, as far as the live goes, that stuff is already used and engaged. UFC and other providers, NFL, etc. pretty quickly catch people paying stuff live on different platforms.
Love you’re videos Mr Nash I actually really enjoy you’re content you e helped me grow and I use your advice currently at 36 average viewers thanks to a combo of you and the alpha gaming channel
I nuked everything to start fresh and out of panic, myself and my bud Jamie were saying "can't wait to see Devin's take on this" thanks for being so quick with this vid.
If you had copywriten music on your vods or clips and you dont have 10k views you probably made the right long term decision.
Twitch is required by law to stop repeat offenders. There are 4 parts to staying within safe harbor. The three strikes is to prevent repeat offenders and twitch by law is required to remove that repeat offender from their platform. Twitch suggested deleting clips and vows to prevent future dmcas. Also note Spotify streaming is against Spotify tos
Dude I have been watching all these videos lately. Idk why but I find them so interesting
Great stream yesterday 💕 awesome insight. Thank you Devin 🙏
I think it would be fair if they stated "starting this date xxx" no more copy right music is allowed.
It would be somewhat fair yes, however it won’t happen cuz the big companies would never agree to it
It was never allowed, they only started enforcing it now
This overreaction is insane. Imagine deleting YEARS of content without double checking if you REALLY have to...
Even though Twitch told them to they could have waited for some more information. I'm assuming a "strike" would not ban them immediately so why not wait a few days?
you can't blame them. Wait for whom exactly? if twitch aka the owner of the platform gave this advise..
Well I mean like, with the threat of potentially losing your livelyhood, there’s not a lot people won’t do. But they should’ve doubled checked
It wasnt an overraction on the influencer's part though, Twitch told them they should do that, can you really blame them for doing it?
a "strike" could be there last one.. that's devin's whole point. There are many streamers who push terms of service to their breaking point and are on their 2nd strike already. if they roll out that last strike in massive quanities then they could lose a LOT of their revenue.
He didn't mention they're legally required to ban accounts that have too many copyright infringements, that's why RUclips also has a three strike rule. I assume Twitch would rather not go to court over it because losing can have major consequences.
So something this could lead to in the future would be allegorical to Sky TV in the UK.
You pay £50 a month for a sports package to watch all the games they have licensed for the year, be it football, rugby, golf, whatever. However if you wish to show these games in a public place, say a bar or cafe, you pay £3000 a month for the same subscription.
You want to buy the game its £50, you want a streamer licence, £3000. No more small streamers, no more variety or one off playthroughs, would be terrible for Twitch but ultimately the decision would fall to game devs not Twitch. It is clear these laws are not fit for purpose and need to be reworked.
I love to blast maps in poe with snoop dogg eminem and 90s rap in general. Different level of energy for grinding then lofi but I guess no choice now until twitch makes some vod-editing tools
Harris putting his "StreamBeats" playlist for streamers to use was clutch for this exact situation.
You also tapped on this issue back then when you were discussion about "twitch Contracts" in what does it mean you have contract and are you an employee of twitch. Overall good explanation and as always very informative.
This is like a game of hot potatoes: lawyer throw that potato to twitch, twitch throw it to streamers, streamers catch it and there's no one left to get it.... but they must EAT IT and say DELICIOUS ! .....unless they don't like potatoes... did i get this right?
Microsoft copyright struck a bunch of streamers playing a game called Halo Online a few years back
It'll happen, just not to the larger creators. Small and medium sized streamers will quite literally get purged from the platform.
ive only watched a few videos of yours, but im already hooked! :D
I think it would be really cool if artists started sponsoring top streamers to run their music in the background
That sounds awesome the first time you read it, but it would be a poor choice for an artist to make. Think about the groups that do similar things to that, like the pretzel rock stuff for example, they offer a relatively small library of songs that you can play for a small licensing fee or by having a bot spam your chat. Sure there are some people that like their music, but there are many more that liked it when they first showed up, and hate it now because it's the same songs over and over on basically every stream. If a single artist "sponsored" a streamer, it would be the same like 20 songs over and over nonstop, and the more streamers they sponsored, the faster everyone would grow to hate their music.
odd, i get what's going on, but i've gotten tons of vods with the highlight going "copyright content was detected and muted" or something along those lines when reviewing my vods, i just let them be and never gotten a strike for them lol
Devin=King George but no cap and no malding
It’s so odd that twitch have not taken the right precautions when the exact same thing has happened to RUclips.
@Devin Nash - what about people that are using video clips, or song CLIPS, for alerts?
Twitch says "Hi RUclips" a lot. I guess it's time someone says Hi Twitch. :) Well Hi Twitch :)
Generally twitch viewers don't rewatch content
love the video, but then where does this leave rhythm game streamers (beat saber, Just Dance, OSU etc). The music is then both game music but also considered level 1 for the top hits in these games (for example 7 rings by Ariana Grande is in Just Dance 2020 with 2 different choreography options). I know you are not a lawyer, curious what your take is on this nonetheless. Littlesiha did receive a strike for Cake by the Ocean from a clip made in december of 2016.
One would Imagine that since the developer of these games had to get the license for each of the songs, that you would be on solid ground streaming the game, but when it comes to legal loopholes and companies using fuckery to secure more revenue...*shrug* could end poorly.
What about when a streamer goes in to a bar or cafe that plays top 200 songs in the bacground with a live stream?
Live DMCA requests are not that much harder than those of VoDs. The main difference is that you are limited in how fast you can process the video. This means you will change from processing a single video at a time (per server) to processing multiple streams at once. Then there also needs to be tooling for extracting out the problem areas of streams with timestamps while the stream is still being progressed instead of at the end. It's really no harder than VoDs, but different design decisions must be made. Tooling around processing VoDs is much more mature, but it's only a matter of time before livestreams can be processed.
Hi bro! Thanks 4 all. Can be used fragments of dialogues of movies for the alerts? To use a gif and the audio? Without music.
You can stream the song, just having the vod/clip of it is a legal no-no. But for as long as I've been around twitch has muted those portions when music stands out that could be legally risky. I just don't understand why it's a problem now 🤔
You cant even stream the songs. Those licenses are for personal use. If you play GTA and listen in-game radio and upload that gameplay to RUclips, there will be copyright claim. It's not any different with Twitch. In the future they will be scanning livestreams and not only vods and clips.
This has been always problem, but Twitch is now so big that they start to care.
www.twitch.tv/p/legal/community-guidelines/music/#:~:text=It%20is%20a%20violation%20of,share%20such%20music%20on%20Twitch.
You cannot (legally) stream songs
Oh snap. I looked into this and I was hugely misinformed when I looked into this a few months back D: Thank you both for the heads up!
OMG LMAO 2 dollars, 7 chains and 39 cats.... had me dead.
Devin this outro scared me really hard. I almost made a car crash thanks to you. Video is awesome tho. But... Where is this list for all the tier 5 content?
Labels started offering a license for a monthly fee. If enforcement ramps up that business could too, or non-copyright stonks
Outro Music?
Just use streambeats (or get monstercat gold). Then you're in the clear.
The personal opinion was dope!
Question: I started a channel in Twitch, here in Brazil, and I´m doing simultaneous interpretation to the song (video clips from youtube). it is not a react, but is something like it, ´cause I´m translating the song to portuguese while it is playing. Can you tell if it is a Fair Use?
BTW, old songs only, 10 years old or more
How is RUclips Live today solving the issue of livestreams and copyright music? I get that VOD's and clips can be muted with a new system from Twitch, but it will not solve the livestreams though?
If they have a bot that can scan vods, can't they also scan live streams? It doesn't seem like it would be that much of a jump to scan live streams and then issue a DMCA request in near-realtime. Though I don't know what the law says about how quickly twitch would need to respond to the DMCA request.. something like a 24-hour window would make it rather meaningless.
I think tom scott's video about copyright sums up the whole video with that the system is not broken but the system. Because if I would take a screenshot from a stream or yt video and sell it on a t-shirt or anything else then the streamer or ytber will be mad and sends a copyright strike or a DMCA. But if they getting a DMCA for wrongly using music its like they are right and big Company bad. Guys just watch the tom scott video "RUclips's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is." , And if you think only creators are in the bad, NO, RUclips had a huge campaign to stop the article 11, now 13, that they dont get sued for being a safe Harbor. Safe Harbors shouldn't exist cause small creators like lofi, indie, etc. can't sell any licenses to anybody cause safe Harbors exist. For example if a Radio show plays a Indie, lofi song they BUY a license from the artist (network, Compagny, Copyright Holder) so they are legaly allowed to play it, but a creator in a safe Harbor doesnt thats why they DMCA people so they hope the people will buy licenses.
The only thing I have to say to that is... Just because one streamer gets banned, doesn't mean im going to stop gifting subs. I'll find another streamer to support and give my hard earned cash to. But I do see your argument devin. If they ban so many streamers because they were on their last strike, those streamers are going to make a fuss over it and defame twitch until it's dead. all while transitioning to youtube.
Feels like Napster all over again lol
RIAA: Oh let's just sue Limewire for over $72 trillion USD in 'calculated' damages OMEGALUL
... more money than the planet had
If there is a certain length the clip can be with out ir being copyrighted or even if it has 1 sec you have to delete it?
I have it to were old clips can be used as a sound board in chat and some have snip its of songs do i have to do away with those aswell?
So if the user doesn't remove the content before the strikes, they can still get banned. THIS is the problem, Twitch being too hard on the streamers (who make twitch their money).
To protect yourself, to avoid strikes, you must remove your own content or Twitch will strike you when a DMCA is issued.
Twitch WILL strike and ban all their smaller creators.
For now, everyone needs to protect themselves.
What about Film music, is it works same as game music ?
What about games that automatically play top songs in the menus like NBA 2K20? How do you think games like that will be handled?
Poorly
License is for personal use, so you would get strike. If nothing changes for good, people have to mute game musics and put copyright free music on background.
Always bet on stupid, even when it comes to running a business.
Also, when it comes to game music, I got a copyright claim on a RUclips game play. It was for the intro song that happened to be playing on the load menu while I yammered with my chat. And weirdly enough, the music company singled out one song out of however many I had for this specific game.
I wonder if some people will hop over to YT Streaming cause of those dmca problems. Twitch had so much drama recently and instead of trying to make their service better, new issues pop up. Idk if there can be turning point where YT will take over, but it may be it :P
Or Mixer? Idk, let's all join Ninja I guess. I have a dumb dumb friend who supports and simps for Twitch. He is one of those who don't do their research. I don't even talk about it with him. He believes the streamers deserve it. The point Nash made that people make.
If you stream on youtube with copyrighted music, your stream will immediately get taken down after you finished. So basically - youtube is taking care of dmca for longer than twitch :-)
It's nice to believe that twitch won't delete 1000s of accounts, but I don't see any reason why they won't blow up smaller accounts as a scare tactic. Pretty sure youtube had no problems deleting accounts en masse back in the day.
Never underestimate a company that managed to lose their biggest streamer to a dead streaming service.
My vids got deleted by them selves and I had no notice of a copy right strike only played music once. Then the rest was just gameplay no mic. I had no intention of deleting content except the one video. Still trying to figure out where they went or why they were gone
what happened to music being under free use?
Hey ! I'm streamer too and my friend says "delete all clips" I say what the hell its a real and I'm not delete because we trying do something its really dumb and you save my life thank you
I'm not big streamer btw :P
I feel like streamers should definitely consider making youtube channels where they can post stream highlights so they don't just have to throw away all of their old content completely
exactly they cant ban everyone for playing songs from small labels or indipendent artists. and these should see this more as an advertisement and will most likely not strike you (for example drdisrespects synthwave/retrowave backgroundmusic)
Is there a way to estimate Twitch's worst case scenario liability to rights holders versus the revenue the platform generates for them? If the first number is higher, I'd be making plans for post-Twitch employment.
Hello, and what about just dance streamers, the category still exist on twitch, is it ok to stream just dance or is it dmca too?
If the music is owned by the game company you're not likely to be striked, if the music is general (and particularly if owned be major label) you probably will be.
@@immersiveirl6638 thx you
Spotify ToS says it's forbidden to broadcast the audio to other platforms lol, so it ain't safe at all. I don't know.
i love 39 cats, BEST MUSIC
There’s a problem with this that hasn’t been addressed as far as I can tell. What about the people who payed money to acquire a portion of a song as a ringtone and their phone rings in stream? That’s just using an example, but that shows how over the top most of the record labels are with this stuff.
Harris Heller Stream beats comes to mind
Are you gonna not tell me what those 2 songs are???
love these videos^^
Here is a good question, are indy artists that cover songs covered by DMCA? or does that put them in the copyfree category?
No, the composition is copyrighted in addition to the performance. Covers only remove the 'performance' aspect.
hey, thanks for your content! i appreciate it.
so which level does metal belong to?
great vid man... it was "law of the letter" lol
I got hit with one too, I think it's totally absurd i posted a video about it, I think something fishy is going on.
Went through and deleted all my vods and clips with music before watching this 😔 just glad i saved the clips before deleting so i can atleast have the memories for myself
I do a lot of offline recording rn, but my stream is set up to auto record when live so I have all my footage for editing and uploading.
He was right, it hasn't begun yet
There is a Level 6 that isn't talked about to be completely safe.
Just don't play any music.
This is 2013-2019 RUclips all over again...
I find recommending people not to delete their clips to be rather irresponsible. I see why you're saying it, but what happens to the people that haven't played those 2 songs, but play music like that regularly. If they decide to pull the trigger on another song or 2, that could be hundreds of creators getting a strike for following your advice? Backup the ones most important to you, and delete everything imo. I don't see the point in leaving them there to catch a strike at some point down the road. Yeah all the ones with those 2 songs are gone, but doesn't mean the ones with the next song or two are gone.
Your suggestions rely so heavily on twich implementing some kind of system before the music industry pulls the trigger on another song. They already have the tech, now all they need to do is add another song to it's library.
New here but I need to know what podcast he is on or runs
I've never really understood this shit. All it is is free advertisement for their songs/music
. The amount of songs I've found from streamers is pretty substantial and I think one of the most common questions in twitch chat is "what song is this?" or "who sings this?"
To clear up something you said Creative Commons is not "copyright free" this is wrong it still under copyright and is works released under a license for different use cases some of which may not be OK for use in a stream as they have a non-commercial license attached. creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/au/ . Also in a lot of cases creative commons licencing requires attribution of the works so you will likely need to at least show the artist who created it if not a link too. It is possible that a DCMA takedown could still happen when using a CC work incorrectly.
Btw how nightcores works considering they're with milion of views in youtube and not get removed are they safe for twitch?
technically no, they might not get flagged automatically (depending on the flagging system capabillities), but nightcore isn't actually legal, if the record labels wanted, youtube would have to remove all of the nightcore content on the platform as well.
Why I just can click one time on "Like"? Thanks Devin for this Video and the explanation! 🙂
verry nice