Ex-Muslim here, I was put in Jail for 9 months, expelled out of my university, lost my job and suffered a lot me and my family for simply questioning Islam, after getting out of the jail I fled my country and publicly announced leaving Islam, to this very day I receive Dth threats.
And that is clearly mentioned to be haram in Islam, you guys only look at the obvious problems in Islam, not the fixes that Islam ITSELF provides to those problems
@@ibrahimakhtar2327Stop lying. Hijab is compulsory in islam, so if a woman does not want to wear it, she must be forced to do so. Likewise, if someone tellq her to take it off she can not obey him. This is basic knowledge. All scholars agreed and you can find it on islamqa. The verse in quran that there is no compulsion in islam, has a totally different context. Do not speak on things you know nothing about
For instance the more the LGBTQ+ community pushes for certain things the more there will be push back because we all are allowed to think differently and have different opinions and different realities of how things should be because we're human
as a muslim, I agree too. shoving religion or any kind of opinions (in general) up to someone's throat is harmful. its like you're answering to a non-existence question. ofc we have difference opinions, bcs we are created difference from each other. so we can celebrate differences, seeing world from different perspective leads to knowledges which will be beneficial for both parties at the end. its okay to disagree but do it respectfully, simple action yet hard to be done by many. if they're curious abt something, they can ask, we can answer and vice versa.
If you’re feeling sexually provoking feelings at someone’s plain voice no matter what gender I think that’s called hypersexual disorder, hope this info helps!
I think Muslim men get so used to not interacting with women, not listening to their voice and not seeing their body that anything women do can get them aroused.
I get why a woman covering up in a place where women usually don't cover up can attract less attention to her, but in a society where no women show their body, you kind of have to raise the bar of how covered up they should be not to attract attention. So it's never enough.
Literally no one stopped them from giving an input on this topic. They stayed quiet on purpose, maybe they really didnt have anything to say on this. You talking as if the muslim dudes were telling them to shutup gun to head. Be fr. No one stopped them.
the whole “you might feel like you were being discriminated against as a woman and denied equal rights, but believe me it’s for your own benefit” energy coming from Jad is CRAZY
megangosiak1489 In a liberal society there are certain things you cannot question without getting repercussions. If you believe in anything illiberal you will be highly attacked for it.
When you are taught from a child that something is true. When you group up and repeat the exact something without modification is brainwashing. You are not taking ownership of those idea.
If women are “encouraged” to wear head scarves to cover their hair since men get aroused by it, should women also have a voice modulator so men wont be attracted to a woman’s voice? The argument supported with “attractive voice” just seems so convoluted.
thanks for making uneducated assumptions about islam. idk if your going off of extrimist and their povs but surley islam is far from strict your just too used to the life you live you dont realise how harmful it is.@@hehedumbkiddo
no problem in that. i am a muslim myself, and if you don't know anything about islam, respectfully don't blame the religion. it's extremely disrespectful.
@@cloroxbleach6344 Exactly. People should stop talking about stuff they do not know to be true. Kafir is someone that commits kufr. Kufr is the action of straying away from truth by doing things, that our conscience inherently knows to be bad. Like lying to ourselves and others, veiling our consciousness with drugs and not taking accountability. Sometimes we try to drown our existential angst with drugs, party and worldy/materialistic things to run away from the truth. That makes us a kafir. It is a state of mind. Most people have been there before. It is our spiritual duty to stay away from kufr, so we do not become kafir.
The justification of taking away women’s rights in order to “protect them” rather than reprimanding the men who do harm and teaching them not to do harm. Telling someone that they are being protected and that’s why their rights need to be stripped away. It’s incredibly dystopian and dark.
Yeah, it's annoying watching debates like these and never hearing about examples outside of the US being brought up. It's hard to justify what happens to women and homosexuals in the middle east.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s the rhetoric espoused in much of Islam’s rules regarding women. Why is it that they have to bear the burden of restriction yet men aren’t reprimanded for their actions?
Completely agreed. Women can find a man's face, beard, voice, hair attractive too yet they aren't made to cover that up. The religion thinks all men are like this and all women are like that when in reality research shows people are very diverse in terms of their personality and desires. Such primitive black and white thinking and yet they call it objective morality 😂
That’s not what a mom should ask for! A mom should want a kid who can be real in front of her. Who can be themselves. If she cannot handle it, she should seek help and not think sth went wrong with him
I really hope “Kafir”’s able to live his life freely one day. It makes me sad when children feel like they owe their parents a lesser version of themselves just because of their parent’s personal beliefs. He also deserves to be happy 🥺..
the way they Completely ignored the slavery points was so blatant and made it even more uncomfortable.. i appreciate kafir for bringing it up and atia for at least Trying to aknowledge it
You need to consider the fact that jubilee heavily trimmed down the whole recording to fit into 46 minutes and so you can't be definite on whether points were ignored or not .
Cause he took it out of context, if he tried to read the verse before he would know that its about who you can marry. He could also just look up the meaning
@@444ngelicbeing surah an nisa verse 24 "Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women-except ˹female˺ captives in your possession." You can not marry a woman thats already married. It has nothing to do with slaves
Jad saying he's not gonna blatantly disrespect anyone as if he wasn't just openly comparing a consenting gay relationship to literal incest is absolutely ridiculous. The lack of self-awareness is crazy.
The whole message of lgbt is ‘love is love’. So he is simply challenging that’s message. If you don’t understand lgbt is a doorway to pedophilia and incest your small minded.
The “I can have 4 wives and we would all know who the father is if I impregnate them, but if a woman has 4 husbands we won’t know who impregnated them??” Is so incredibly odd. The ex-Muslim’s guy’s face when he was saying that exactly summed up my thoughts on it, like dude WTF??
like?? why would it matter who impregnated the wife? assuming it's allowed, all husbands are legitimate, so they would still all be one family. morally fine. and the fact that he used this logic tells me exactly why women and men aren't equal in Islam
@@1dowhatyouwant you’re insane if you think it doesn’t matter who the father is. Men would want their own biological children as well, not to raise another man’s child.
@@SpaghettiBolognese99 well i figured they have loads of insane and ridiculous double standards which they conveniently explain as god’s will, what’s one more
Jad didnt come here to potentially get his mind changed, he came here to try and change other peoples minds. Atia was the most respectful and emotionally mature person, and Kafir brought up researched and uncomfortable truths that the Muslim individuals couldn't speak on. I wish moderators didn't halt some conversations.
jad laughing EVERY time any other person who didn’t agree with him talked is mad disrespectful. he was talking way too much about respect to be this disrespectful.
Didn’t f with his vibe since the conservative vs liberal video. And it’s not because he’s a conservative because I myself is conservative leaning but there is something about him that I really don’t like.
Where was he being disrespectful though? I think that taha guy was mad disrespectful. He kept huffing and puffing and interrupting when him and the other guy spoke. Clear bias against muslims
I just wanted to add: not questioning your beliefs is exactly what leads to extremism. This is true for any religion and also for atheists in terms of political views.
Well in the Quran you’re supposed to question. So I wouldn’t say we blindly just follow. Every question has an answer, so why not ask and get the answer.
@@nasirghaznawi1182It sounds more like "If you don't understand something (about the religion) then ask" and not like "Question what you believe". There's a huge difference. It even sounds like the opposite. It's giving "Just believe what we tell you"
@@GhoudaBajjiI was born and raised in a Muslim country too and had the absolute best upbringing unfortunately I no longer live in that country bc of western imperialism and invasion spreading “freedom and democracy” in my country. But yeah
@@handfuloflight bwahah! People can see reality of today. We are no more in middle ages but muslims refuse to believe that. Their female rights also stuck in middle ages
Saying “if it’s ok for two males to have s3x, then what is the problem with doing it with your brother” is logically equivalent as saying “if it’s ok for men and women to have s3x, what is the problem with doing it with your sister”. It’s a non-sequitur fallacy
IT IS A CHOICE. There is no gay gene. Also the point is not to compare the two i.e gay and incest. The point highlights that liberal view of acceptance of gay people has no moral justification, the same as they dont have any justification NOT to do incest. Why dont you do incest?
🤦♂️🤦♂️ but you are the one saying “love is love between two consenting adults” So we showed you that two consenting adults can be siblings? What is your counter argument to that? Why is it wrong if they used protection?
If you're going to host these types of conversations, bring on learned people who can engage with the topic - otherwise it's just an emotional conversation.
@@yomilala8929 The average person's theological ignorance has no benefit for the conversation nor the audience. Like I said by that point it's just an anecdotal and emotional exchange, there's no value in this as no one walks away any wiser.
that's not the point of this show. it's meant to be everyday people who are believers and non-believers engaging in discourse. when we talk about other issues like race, no one demands experts, why for this issue?
It was just emotional arguments from the non Muslims side, besides the masked guy, and I don’t even know why Atai is on the podcast if she’s just agreeing with everything the ex-Muslims are saying
@@MyPimpedOutMuslim they were all pretty emotional and also very reasoned. it was a mixed bag. but this is how everyday religious and non-religious people are.
The way they justified suppressing women as protecting them… if men are the problem, women shouldn’t be forced to change for them. If men can’t control themselves even by just hearing a woman’s VOICE they need to be kept on a leash. Act like a dog, get treated like one.
I am not sure women are "oppressed" in Islam specifically more than men, other than covering their hair? pretty much anything else is applied to both genders.
it's not somebody's faith, it's a whole nation's faith, if anything a state where faith is excluded from politis and laws means any law could be passed without regards to a whole group of people's obligations or prohibitions, perfect example is france banning the abaya from school which in fact is an obligation (hijab and covering the body for women ) in islamic faith and it's a sin to go in public without covering so the law disadvantaged the muslims and opressed them so there should be religious coutries (islamic , christian ...) where people of that specific religion live in to ensure thier religious rights
That is terrifying. Theocratic countries have the worst human rights records. (Look at how LGBT+ and women are treated in Middle-Eastern countries) Not to mention that basing law on the supernatural/invisible has dangerous precedent. You can't use logic or cross-examine it. That's how the Salem Witch Trials got so out of hand and why "invisible evidence" was banned thereafter. And in many of these theocratic countries, you're labeled an apostate just for not being in that religion. No freedom.
@@hibba3764a whole nation cant have a faith, because no matter what humans do in every nation there will be people of different faiths, and all humans should be free to express their believes however they want. Excluding religion from the law doesnt mean you can pass any law you want, as not everything in life gets its value from religion and morality doesnt have to come from religion
Has anyone else noticed how as this series progresses, the Jubilee staff continue to interupt more and more frequently and also seem to be steering or guiding the conversation in a way? I think they should allow the people who are featured to speak more freely without intervening so often but thats just me.
the muslims in the video already posted a video about this, Jubilee agenda posted this video. one of the so called ex-muslims was never even a muslims and he himself had told Jubilee staff this and yet they continued this video.
Or indonesian muslims AND chinese muslims. There are 20x more muslim in china than usa(approx 25 mill muslims from various ethnicity is living in china), and they are thriving there. I know arab world is the center of islam, but muslim around the world is very different from one country to other country
@@Nazisonyt I must have missed that. I didn’t catch every minute of it but I watched over 90%. Either way, it still breaks my heart a little that he feels he has to do this to not hurt his mother. Or shame her. That’s the vibe I got
Just because men can be attracted to a woman’s ankle, forearm, any body part that is covered by the garb (and not being able to go to the call of prayer because of being attracted to their voice)… shouldn’t men be taught to have self control and respect for a woman and not just look at her as an object?
@@OnlyAbriS no men don’t wear a hijab, however hijab translates to barrier. Men have their own hijab e.g covering themselves from the naval to the knee. As for the face, the prophet Yusuf covered his face due to his beauty.
Jad saying that Janet is being disrespectful for implying that women are forced to wear hijabs and not makes choices for themselves is wild cause Janet is Iranian and in Iran aren’t women literally being murdered for not wearing the hijab “properly” ? So yes, some Muslim women ARE being forced to wear hijab and are losing their lives. That doesn’t include the hijabi’s who obviously choose to wear hijab and don’t find it oppressive. I’m here to say more. The Jad guy is so condescending and annoying. How is he comparing same sex relationships and to being the equivalent of an incest relationship as if Muslims themselves don’t literally be marrying their blood cousins. That’s incest too. So it’s fine because they are two different genders? like make it make sense 😂
THANK YOU 👏 THIS! women are literally murdered and raped by muslim men just for not submitting to mandatory hijab. also death penalty is the traditional form of punishment for both male and female apostates for leaving Islam. and guess what? if you officially announce you don't want to be a muslim anymore, you will be hanged in Iran. this all happens because the muslims are in charge of the country
I know many Muslim girls who remove hijab in the office or in the bathroom of the college. Or classes. They also get harassed by their cousins if they find out that she is talking with guys from another religion or atheist. AND STILL FEW OF THEM DEFEND THIS😂😂😂 Brainless or brainwashed, same
Jubilee brought 2 "Muslims" that thought more like the "ex-Muslims." And one of the 4 "ex-Muslims" admitted after this was posted that he explicitly told Jubilee he was never Muslim. Another one, the masked guy, PM'ed Faiyad afterwards to tell him they cut out his response on slavery and even he thought that was unfair.
Jad speaks for himself, I don't think that's actually true, Men and Women have different roles in Islam, Women are not prohibited to do the call of prayer. But why would they even do it? We rarely see Female Pastor?
@@Rose-ry9vy In Christianity many people believe that women shouldn’t be priests/pastors, thats why. Even though there are people who say differently. Honestly it depends on the type of church
@@Rose-ry9vy first of all, why is everybody comparing Christianity and Islam? Both are Religions. And the Point is that the Islam might or might not be Equal and noone talks about that the Islam beeing worse than the Christianity with Equality. So I dont see why you try make that a Point?
im just gonna say, youll see it soon and endure it with your own eyes, respectfully... no hate but just be patient, that day is closer than u think it is
I'm not really satisfied with the responses on either sides. I feel like relevant questions were asked, but none were really answered in a productive way. Would love to see a conversation between professionals!
Exactly! I was disappointed with this whole group.This was a very basic, surface level discussion with non of them having knowledge of the Quran to use in their arguments. Kafir got away with the most ludacris explanation of the verse in Surah Nisa and no one from the other side even questioned the authenticity of the source/hadith and author.
Yeah it's so layman at this day and age of information, I can't believe people would fall for so easily for this, they need to get off the net and read actual books 😂
"women can't do the call of prayer because men can be attracted to it." bro at this point women shouldn't breathe because the chest goes up and down, men could be tempted!!!
The orthodox position is that women cannot lead prayers for men, which is justified by the different roles that men and women take in society however, there is no Hadith and Quran verse that prohibits Muslim women from doing so.
girl literally grew up in Bangladesh. She said that growing up in a very religious environment made her question Islam and being in a more secular environment (once she moved to America/started college) allowed her to experience Islam on her own and that's why she chooses to be Muslim.
@@GeneralKenobi-t1x When your religion forces women to cover themselves and not have basic human rights all because men don't want to control themselves, that is punishment.
@@schneedgodwhy not mention how in islam, men are compelled by law to pay for their wives but their wives have 0 obligation to pay a cent of their earnings for the husband?
As an ex muslim, its so comforting to know that others can see the delulu in this religion. Genuine criticism of islam is so needed to protect women especially and to inspire much needed updates. Im glad there are people brave enough to have this conversation since any criticism of islam is so quickly labelled islamophobic, when in reality contradiction isnt persecution.
ex-muslims in a lot of cases have some kind of toxic ego complex, this was very noticeable in the debate; the ex-muslims were not only hardly versed in Islam, but their only driving factors was to appeal to emotions and push on secular liberal norms which practically dictate "why should anyone get any special treatment?" these so called "free thinkers" are mind slaves to modern secular liberalism, yet have the audacity to call others brainwashed in a religion they choose to follow.
@@hello-hi-5 Clearly YOU didn't watch the video, nor fully read my comment; You undermined my critiques, and clearly you don't stand by what you're saying either if you have a problem with me pointing out that Ex-Muslim aren't so much held together by intellectual discourse, but through grudge and disliking for Islam (emotional appeal). I can only conclude that people are only favoring them because they've either got some poor excuse of a sob story for leaving, or because ex-Muslims favor most people's nihilistic norms.
@@flounderpounder5197 (Im on a different account, I’ve tried to edit my ordinal comment and don’t know why but for some reason it got deleted.( Or at least I can’t see it anymore) I was trying to add an edit/ reply to my comment regarding your new reply, since my comments were getting deleted. Or again at least it looks like they are to me, I can’t see them, so I’m just adding my ordinal comment back, on a different account, and replying to your other comment below it, if you don’t see my reply below this, I’ll give the short answer, I still think you didn’t really say anything, (Edit: and no, you didn’t just “point that out. And just because someone gets emotional, doesn’t give their arguments any less value.) It just sounds like you can’t take criticism. ( I did go a lot more in-depth in my reply, just depends if you can see it or not) I can’t seem to give a proper response without it getting deleted, for some reason, but hopefully by changing accounts I can.) Please stop it. Like Instead of listening to what people are saying, you’re just saying nonsense things and dismissing Ex-Muslims experiences. (did you even watch the video? How did the Ex-Muslims have an “ego complex.”) Sounds like you’re the one being toxic and being the emotional one here. All ideology’s should be criticised, if you can’t handle that, then maybe you should ask yourself why. Because whether you like it or not, it is really important to criticised toxic/harmful ideas and beliefs.
@@flounderpounder5197 By the way Atia was crying in one part of the debate, if you want to get augmentative about “emotions,” edit: And this isn’t my proper reply, I want to say a lot more but every time I do, it’s get deleted, and or I can’t seem to see the comments, so I just put this here.
"Men might be attracted to your voice" "Men might be attracted to your face." ehh...So, make all the men stay at home instead? (Since they seem to be the potential perpetrators anyway, as opposed to the women in this case, who are the potential victims)
That was my first argument against this and it took me about 3 seconds to think of. It’s like…come on dude. He sits there and cites scientific literature (inaccurately) whenever it suits him but goes religious whenever it suits him. Psychological bias at its finest.
I was a bit unhappy to learn I had to pay to view the whole conversation. :( And I'm not sure what's going on, but this was the most frustrating video I've watched due to the constant interruptions from the behind-the-scenes people. Let an entire conversation play out, I thought was supposed to be how can we come to a middle ground, not let's just attack each other. I think the selection of people should've been vetted more, it seemed like one of the non-Muslims was never Muslim.
I copy-pasted this comment from one a bit above yours. Jubilee brought 2 "Muslims" that thought more like the "ex-Muslims." And one of the 4 "ex-Muslims" admitted after this was posted that he explicitly told Jubilee he was never Muslim. Another one, the masked guy, PM'ed Faiyad afterwards to tell him they cut out his response on slavery and even he thought that was unfair.
@@gunpookiethis is such a poor comment. Aita and the niqab girI are musIims, whether peopIe like jad like it or not. They dont "think like ex musIims" no, they are simply musIims who disagree with him. The whole point is to represent many types of musIims, which they did Its true that jubiIee messed up with Faiyad as he was never truIy a musIim but he barely talked anyway so it didnt affect the conversation that much FinaIIy, JubiIee always cuts out segments and Kafir himseIf in the ex musIim subreddit said that they cut out many of his responses as weII. This isnt oppression this is common practice because the videos need to be under a certain Iength MusIims are just mad cause this video exposed the eviI of this reIigion
@@botanicalitus4194 I agree, its annoying how people are calling Atia and the niqabi girl ex-muslims because they don't have the same views as the two muslim guys, like people are allowed to have different opinions and perspectives. Your last sentence is so wrong though, Islam is not evil at all, its culture and people. The religion itself is beautiful but unfortunately people have tainted it.
"When you say it's best for me: there is a threat" 100% agree and Kafir broke it down beautifully. The countless documentaries of Muslim women in all cultures and how they are treated by Men in their culture and religion blows out everything anyone on this panel can say about how they treat women.
@@SalsaSaniyour woman isn’t a child and more importantly she isn’t your child. That basic human respect to give people the freedom to think and behave for themselves as long they don’t hurt anyone.
@@rabiamultan9481 In 2016, the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) advocated allowing a husband to beat his wife if he feels it is necessary, as well as requiring women to breastfeed their children for two years.
Jad not looking at women according to his religious beliefs just proves the fact that he sees the potential in himself to have a sexualized view towards women
Women are attractive to men's voices as well... They're also attracted to men's hair and beards. This is why, out of all the major religions, this one is the most frightening because it's archaic practices and beliefs are still being ubiquitously recognized.
The awrah is a joke. Men don't have to cover the entire top half of their body, and I've had apologists try to tell me that "women aren't visual creatures."
They talk about how muslim are unfairly targeted but never talk about the fact that there are literally laws in some countries that allow the execution of ex-muslims. It's sad that there's not more focus on the existential crisis that it is to be an ex-muslim living in a muslim society and the daily scrutiny you're exposed to. I mean an ex-muslim woman got stabbed for putting her beliefs out there. Would an ex-muslim ever stab a muslim for his believes? I've never seen that so I feel like it was really wrong for them to attack ex-muslims on their hatred when ex-muslims are already hated by both sides and in literal danger of death.
i feel like they rlly undermine how scary being an ex muslim are. being shunned by youre muslim family is already traumatizing enough, but in some country conversion can causes u death or prison. which is literally oppression and a jail in of itself. being a muslim is not a choice from the start, it’s thrown in ur face ever since u are born. when u decided you believe things differently, you get punished. it baffled me how somehow people argue islam is not oppressive.
@@irish2661hi Irish how was your day? I just wanted to say please don’t blame a religion for the actions of the bad people in it you could say the same for any religion .
@@HnoofhMohamed Indeed you could say the same for any religion. And I do. Who else do I blame for problems that stem *directly* from religion? You can pretend all the problems are from people doing it wrong, but that's just a convenient excuse based off of the presupposition of "our religion is perfect, any problems are yours"
@@HnoofhMohamedyou clearly didn't read or understood the Quran.... You were basically reciting a bunch of words and didn't really understood what they meant. Once you understand it, you become an exmuslim
It really pissed me off how all of them were capriciously evading K@fir's questions , he literally quoted verses and lines directly from the holy books. While carefully examining and choosing to refute only the weak arguments made by Ex-Muslims.
It's not about taking sides but rather fostering a meaningful and balanced discussion where all viewpoints are addressed, regardless of interpretation@@cyberverse9141
@@cyberverse9141 how is quoting the book his own interpretation? The fact that they did not answer his question is proof they couldn't argue his points
@@keletsom8000 Who claimed that the hadith of the female slave implied that you could have something forceful? Looking into it, we can see that he actually GUESSED when he said "probably means grape" when this is an exegesis that is not supported by the further implications of what the relationship between concubine is. He kept quoting scholars, like at 4:24 when he said scholars said it allowed for concubinage and then when it came to that, he ran away from scholarly opinion.
Jad compared homosexuality to incest but did he forget that first cousins are allowed to marry eachother in Islam. How is that not incest? It's so ironic lol. 27:07
Cousins have really different genetic makeup than siblings. One of the parent from each side is a sibling, the other parent are still out of the box. So cousins literally have 50% of different DNA making it a REALLY different situation as compared to incest.
@tintedqualia but what if the family doest it over and over again uninterruptedly for many generations, as it is a common case in a few Muslim countries, then doesn't it start having a similar effect as incest?
@@lynb.3040 I understand what you're talking about, but you know what, this is a cultural thing and not a "Muslim" thing. Islam actually encourages out of culture marriages and there are many examples of it in the past
And actually, what does it matter if the woman doesn't know who the father is? All four of the men that she married can still take care of her. All four of them can be the father even if not biological. The logic is ridiculous.
@@GenerationNextNextNextyou’re talking about how their logic is ridiculous but you’re saying that it doesn’t matter if you don’t figure out who the father is??
Would it be okay if ur husband or bf looked at the boobs if this girl which may lead to sleeping with her later(cheating on u)?At least my dude is lowering his gaze,like look how strong is he!not looking at a half naked woman in front of you is great and i bet you want your partner to be like this so chill hun
I just wanna take a moment to really appreciate Atia and D'Harmonie, as well as Kafir for remaining so calm, respectful, and perceptive throughout the conversation, despite the conflict. Especially Atia.
@@cartizas4256D'Harmonie explained it herself in the video. A power dynamic is always without consent, for example because of grooming. Kadir actually mentioned this when he talked about a relationship between an enslaved woman and her muslim master. That even if he were not to r*p3, it would still be not consensual
Atia seems in a state of turmoil and still discovering the true path, I’m not sure if it’s beneficial to have ppl still sorting things out take up leadership positions on part of their communities as in this video. Perhaps I’m wrong and she knows a great deal while being resolute in her beliefs, but that’s just the impression I got
@@cloroxbleach6344no one has ever reached the end of the path. As humans, we are constantly changing and growing. To say that someone does not deserve equal space because they acknowledge that they are still growing seems illogical to me. She represents a great number of people in her position.
Atia was the most respectful muslim in this discussion, her empathy and ambiguity was really commendable. Also I love that Janet made the point that she is attracted to women but doesn't feel the need to sexualise them and act inappropriately. Kafir had a very interesting outlook and made many good points that unfortunately were not always adressed. Also Jad is so set in his ways and its alarming he couldnt see the evident disparity between incest and homosexuality. It was a very irrelevant comparison.
I didn't see any of the muslims disrespecting any ex muslims, and I don't see why when non muslims challenge the laws of islam they feel victimized when they realize their ideology is being challenge, or to them "attacked". Also can you tell me why protected incest with someone you never grew up with is morally wrong? No disrespect but I genuinely want to know where you derive your morality from in this aspect
@@zakariafraoui The real question is how significant those differences are, in what contexts they are pertinent, and the degree to which they really justify certain gender norms. These differences do not even apply to everyone, even when they exist at a group-level (save reproduction and sexually dimorphic organs), so applying such norms so rigidly to EVERYONE even then would not be justified. Edit: Added a missing word
@caba3995 Biological sex differences by definition do not vary between cultures; if they did, they would not be biological differences, and might stem from culture, division of labour and societal structures which can be changed. Furthermore, you completely ignored that many people would still deviate from even the societally constructed norms related to sex and gender. In places like Arabia, they face significant discrimination which culture and religion cannot justify. Objective truth and the normative conclusions we make from them given the same goals should not vary between cultures. To use culture to justify gender norms is to use culture to justify a part of itself, which is simply circular reasoning. Furthermore, I am from a and live in a South Asian muslim-majority country, namely Bangladesh. Where I am from should not dictate what I think is most rationally justified, which is supposed to be more objective.
Women and men are different, but further to that women and women are different too. Everyone has their own strengths and should be allowed to live their life how they want to
It's actually not. It again boils down to societal norms. There are kings and queens that married their relatives - not only in Game of Thrones. In real life. There were whole families that ended because of incest. At one point in time, it was morally considered normal. His argument was that we view relationships based on societal norms. It was not the correct argument to make, but I think he was trying to say that most relationships are viewed from a subjective moral lens (even when there is no risk of mutant kids as in the case of two brothers engaging in a relationship). So, nothing is truly outdated when everything is subjective. He just couldn't articulate it.
@@coliat4400they literally mentioned it's a new law. it's not part of their "culture". this is all because of the religion. what else do you expect from a religion based on sexism?
@@spam-r3s Again,this new law is based on cultural beliefs.And if it were truly based on religion, wouldn’t you see all majority-Muslim countries enforce it too-but you don’t. There’s actually no basis in Islam for a law that prohibits women from speaking in public, it’s clearly a reflection of their interpretation of social or cultural norms rather than the religious scripture. You’re either misinformed or just ignorant.
I haven't read the Quran to say whether it's written as women being lesser than men, but that is how it is practiced on a huge scale. My family is Muslim. When my grandmother died, only the women had to cover themselves up for the funeral on a very hot day. "The man's hijab is different" is such a copout. The women- most of whom were her actual children and her caretakers- couldn't approach the grave while whe was being buried while the male family members- mostly IN LAWS- could. They claimed it was decreed by the Quran because women will be too hysterical to be allowed near the grave.
@@IMHS21How do we determine whether to judge a group by its written values or by its common actions? When I ask my dad about problematic things, he does often say that it's not in the Quran. Yet those harmful things (in my experience mainly treatment of women) are practiced widely by Muslims. Christianity has the same issue, so not trying to single out Islam here.
@@IMHS21It is though. The quran says a woman's testimony and inheritance share account for half a man's. And the hadiths call women intellectually deficient,.making the inferior to men.
@@BroJo676 a woman testimony is not half in the Quran. For all the testimonies mans and women's are equal. There is only one case, in a financial inheritance situation that a women was to be supported by another women. I don't want to write endless about this. But if you genuinely want to learn about this I recommend a video of Quranic Islam about the two testimonies a livestream a few weeks ago.
I’ve never met a Muslim in my life who had a slave. Also, it’s not rape because they have to consent. That was a time when slavery was prevalent in society. No modern Muslims practiced slavery. The Muslims who did in the 7th century Arabia where having concubines was a thing…it still is a thing (see bill gates). You have to buy them treat them well take care of them and not abuse them. And that was in a society almost 2000 years ago. So no, Muslim men’s are not allowed to rape people. You’re twisted for thinking that. The US military however, does permit this in the 21 st century. And the Mossad. See Epstein. See Abu Ghraib Prison. See the Mauritanian
A women cover her face because men can be attracted to it and this step will show only her personality. Alright nicely said. Will the men hide his face if a women is attracted to his face? Will the men stop talking if his voice is sexy? I guess the answer would be no. So ladies and gentlemen here you see the hypocrisy.
Men have been created to have a natural inclination to woman. It's their test in this World. If we don't acknowledge that this world is a test, how will we see Allah's laws as been just.?
Well said. Come to think of it, it seems the early Muslims didn’t know that women can lust after men too. Many boys don’t know this till they grow up and realize women have needs too just like I did - I was super conservative in women’s rights till I became liberal once I realized women are just like men in more ways than we are not
@@kinglife69 If you watch this video, the muslims gave excuses about niqab. They said it's to limit the attraction between them and I just wanted to point out that men's faces and voices could be sexy for women too. Will they hide it?
If "cognitive dissonance" was a person. Unfortunately, most Western Muslims are like this because their religion is inherently anti-"modern-day Western value."
By that I think she meant she has trust in her religion. Islam definitely does encourage questioning and she shared that her questioning is what strengthened her faith in the religion overall.
Idk what is up with people thinking that to believe and submit to a religion you must know all the answers, that would quite literally mean that one religion is 100% factually correct, which removes the part that is most important in belief, which is the action of believing.
Literally they always do this and then often they bring other religions ie Christianity into it , but we are not asking about other we are asking specifically about Islam.
The issue about multiple wives isn’t about having 4 wives just cause, during times of war women’s husbands died in which they couldn’t take care of themselves, marrying 4 wives to take care of them and you must treat them fair and just and have permission from your wife. These Muslims aren’t scholers, don’t expect them to know everything about the religion
@@Spastic110Well the same verse allows Muslim men to have sex with slaves and female war captives, even when these women are still married to slave men.
they do it because they themselves only have morals because they’re afraid of punishment if not, while most non-religious people have morals because they simply don’t want to harm and inflict suffering on others.
@@SpaghettiBolognese99 don’t understand why you’re watching youtube if you’re actually muslim though it’s a major sin as this video contains both fitnah, music,
So... they completely jumped over the rape part of male polygamy in the Quran, and instead decided to focus on men being able to impregnate multiple women at once. This is so incredibly odd that they cannot see the irony in their own words.
Jubilee cut that part out, the whole entire recording was 3 hours but their agenda seemed like something else. If u want to know how i know this it was established in the 3 muslims channel where the guy who responded to the grape question is there.
@@mahimhasan4012 lmao, their agenda and then you point to the Muslim side responding to it. They're already morally corrupt listening to such an outdated book written by men to control simpletons.
The statement that "first i ask myself why i am questioning the things which is already written". That is a such dangerous statement that is root of all problems. When people stop questioning what is ethically, morally and scientifically wrong things. It becomes a very dangerous threat to society. Peole just belief what is written in a certain text even in 21st century without questioning its relevency in todays society is very upsetting.
Iran attacks Azerbaijan. It is forbidden for muslim countries to attack each other. Omg then how is Iran muslim? By your logic Iran defines the whole Islam. NO AND NO! Iran does things that go out of Islamic rules like womens choice of wearing whatever they want to. Yall be hating Islam for Iran and Afghanistan while they be the only cruel countries. Go talk about France? They force women to dress revealingly. Go talk about North Korea and educate yourself. Culture and religions are different
the hijab itself isnt oppressive its how these countries and radical groups are abusing islam and its rights. a lot of the points brought up about the hijab as oppression especially by janet were more in a cultural context rather than religious
This political outrage and problems with oppressive women and cultures doesn’t have anything to do with Islam. Islam says that hijab is mandatory. However no one should force you, no one can. The men who are forcing women to wear hijab in Iran are doing haram and this isn’t the women’s fault. This is all the governments doing not the religion.
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Waiting for Infidel Noodle to see this~
you mispelled "Azhan" in the subtitles otherwise nice
@@omi4470fellow infidel noodle watcher 🙏
you mispelled a lot of arabic words which is rude
Ok
Ex-Muslim here, I was put in Jail for 9 months, expelled out of my university, lost my job and suffered a lot me and my family for simply questioning Islam, after getting out of the jail I fled my country and publicly announced leaving Islam, to this very day I receive Dth threats.
I'm so sorry from the bottom of my heart, you didn't deserve that.
L
@@adamiqbal8447thank you brother so kind of you ❤, that happened 17 years ago and jail nightmares still hunting me.
Islam ostracizes ppl who leave or questions, das why (According to a well known Muslim Apologist) 100,000 leave Islam every year.
U just made that up
I am not Muslim but I have seen and heard from Muslim women being forced to wear it either husband or father.
It’s a choice for some not all.
And that is clearly mentioned to be haram in Islam, you guys only look at the obvious problems in Islam, not the fixes that Islam ITSELF provides to those problems
@@ibrahimakhtar2327 you are write they only judge islam bay a muslim. Muslim is not complete but islam is.
@@ibrahimakhtar2327Stop lying. Hijab is compulsory in islam, so if a woman does not want to wear it, she must be forced to do so. Likewise, if someone tellq her to take it off she can not obey him. This is basic knowledge. All scholars agreed and you can find it on islamqa. The verse in quran that there is no compulsion in islam, has a totally different context. Do not speak on things you know nothing about
No she isnt lol. Forcing the hijab is a sin @spaghettimonster5650
@@ayahusseinaghaYou are ignorant af. Send me one link that says forcing hijab is a sin. You will not find one
No matter what religion it is, if you force it, the person will end up hating it.
agreed, preaching to people is fine but if they don’t want to hear it and u continue thats forcing
But also goes with other people's beliefs on the world not just for religion
For instance the more the LGBTQ+ community pushes for certain things the more there will be push back because we all are allowed to think differently and have different opinions and different realities of how things should be because we're human
as a muslim, I agree too. shoving religion or any kind of opinions (in general) up to someone's throat is harmful. its like you're answering to a non-existence question. ofc we have difference opinions, bcs we are created difference from each other. so we can celebrate differences, seeing world from different perspective leads to knowledges which will be beneficial for both parties at the end. its okay to disagree but do it respectfully, simple action yet hard to be done by many. if they're curious abt something, they can ask, we can answer and vice versa.
Exactly, read surah 2:256
If you’re feeling sexually provoking feelings at someone’s plain voice no matter what gender I think that’s called hypersexual disorder, hope this info helps!
no, if you do not feel any source of temptation or lust, you are sexually weak, which is most westren men and thus the reason for ur comment
Literally!
I think Muslim men get so used to not interacting with women, not listening to their voice and not seeing their body that anything women do can get them aroused.
I get why a woman covering up in a place where women usually don't cover up can attract less attention to her, but in a society where no women show their body, you kind of have to raise the bar of how covered up they should be not to attract attention. So it's never enough.
@laislyra5512 You said it perfectly. It's never enough!!
The fact that during the argument about women being seen as equal the moderator had to step in and ask for women's opinion is so telling 😂
Literally no one stopped them from giving an input on this topic. They stayed quiet on purpose, maybe they really didnt have anything to say on this. You talking as if the muslim dudes were telling them to shutup gun to head. Be fr. No one stopped them.
who knows maybe one of the muslim dudes would get too excited if he heard a woman's voice
@@noisi747 agree lmao
It's very telling seeing as the women couldn't speak for themselves.
@@nishatlala3990The musIim dudes were steam rolling the conversation as usuaI thats why the moderators had to step in
the whole “you might feel like you were being discriminated against as a woman and denied equal rights, but believe me it’s for your own benefit” energy coming from Jad is CRAZY
its not even just the energy its exactly what he was saying.. crazy
Every religion on earth teaches modesty..
The “Chad” energy was big with him too. He was named well.
@@MountainPearlsshut up white woman
@@manny__003only for woman... of course
As a woman, if i'd have to choose who to be trappedwith in one room for awhile, I'd choose the masked guy over Jad every day.
No one cares lol
@@TayeShodehinde you cared enough to reply ("lol").
@@Exxy6965 womp womp
Who asked
@@OmarLen-gt2sp i asked
Brainwash literally means being told what you believe and not being able to question it.
It can happen in all religions.
Exactly
Religion is a scam, glad I got out of that mousetrap 👍
@brandoncammon7971 yeah it is. I don't believe in false dieties either.
megangosiak1489
In a liberal society there are certain things you cannot question without getting repercussions. If you believe in anything illiberal you will be highly attacked for it.
When you are taught from a child that something is true. When you group up and repeat the exact something without modification is brainwashing. You are not taking ownership of those idea.
"Women can't do the call of prayer because you can get attracted to a woman's voice" oh men are so odd.
Lol exactly it further proves how sexist and unequal ot actually is
@@mazzo-4kthat means women’s can’t do anything? Or the men should act on this attraction? Lack of self control and power dynamics is all it is.
Just say what you meant and don't self-censor. MUSLIM men are so odd.
If women are “encouraged” to wear head scarves to cover their hair since men get aroused by it, should women also have a voice modulator so men wont be attracted to a woman’s voice? The argument supported with “attractive voice” just seems so convoluted.
but it's true
I find it really weird that these conversations are edited and cut down, I think it'd be really great to see the full conversations.
You have to pay for that
same
Having to pay is WILD
then generate your own content....@@jiya-jn6bb
The muslims did make a behind the scenes video if you're interested
the guy isn't literally named Kafir, he calls himself that to hide his identity, and clearly has a sense of irony
obv u know how strict muslims are abt their religion he doesnt wanna get harmed prolly
thanks for making uneducated assumptions about islam. idk if your going off of extrimist and their povs but surley islam is far from strict your just too used to the life you live you dont realise how harmful it is.@@hehedumbkiddo
@@hehedumbkiddo He said that he doesn't want his mom to find out cuz it will break her heart, nothing bout gettin harmed.....
Honestly its smart, doing a video like this will cause lots of controversery. No need to have your legal name- too much danger.
love him
“i know its outdated but i choose not to question it cus im a muslim” 💯💀bruhh 31:42…you see where the problem comes from??
Without lies, Islam dies
@@kebenloco💀💀💀💀💀
Saw this as soon as that part came up! You must be a prophet!
@@mider-spanman5577 astagfirullah
no problem in that. i am a muslim myself, and if you don't know anything about islam, respectfully don't blame the religion. it's extremely disrespectful.
"Kafir" means disbeliever in Arabic and seeing an ex-Muslim using it as a pseudonym had me cackle.
I knew Kafir meant something, that's actually funny.
No it actually doesn’t, it means one who buries or conceals truth
I came to the comments to see if anyone else giggled at this 😂
@@cloroxbleach6344 Exactly. People should stop talking about stuff they do not know to be true. Kafir is someone that commits kufr. Kufr is the action of straying away from truth by doing things, that our conscience inherently knows to be bad. Like lying to ourselves and others, veiling our consciousness with drugs and not taking accountability.
Sometimes we try to drown our existential angst with drugs, party and worldy/materialistic things to run away from the truth. That makes us a kafir. It is a state of mind. Most people have been there before. It is our spiritual duty to stay away from kufr, so we do not become kafir.
@@cloroxbleach6344It doesn't. It means disbeliever. Stop practicing your taqiyya, lies permitted in Islam.
The justification of taking away women’s rights in order to “protect them” rather than reprimanding the men who do harm and teaching them not to do harm.
Telling someone that they are being protected and that’s why their rights need to be stripped away. It’s incredibly dystopian and dark.
Yeah, it's annoying watching debates like these and never hearing about examples outside of the US being brought up. It's hard to justify what happens to women and homosexuals in the middle east.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s the rhetoric espoused in much of Islam’s rules regarding women. Why is it that they have to bear the burden of restriction yet men aren’t reprimanded for their actions?
You clearly don’t understand
Completely agreed. Women can find a man's face, beard, voice, hair attractive too yet they aren't made to cover that up. The religion thinks all men are like this and all women are like that when in reality research shows people are very diverse in terms of their personality and desires. Such primitive black and white thinking and yet they call it objective morality 😂
@@hebi8641Yes we clearly don't.
The guy in the "weird" mask is the sweetest son a mum would ask for... So thoughtful and full of love. Considerate and humble.
Shame he has to hide cause of the honour killings
@@SpiritBled99 hes hindu lmao
@@macckka__2404 did you read the title of the video
@@SpiritBled99his instagram was linked and it turned out that he is a hindu 😂😂😂 hindus would do anything to spread lies about islam
That’s not what a mom should ask for! A mom should want a kid who can be real in front of her. Who can be themselves.
If she cannot handle it, she should seek help and not think sth went wrong with him
I really hope “Kafir”’s able to live his life freely one day. It makes me sad when children feel like they owe their parents a lesser version of themselves just because of their parent’s personal beliefs. He also deserves to be happy 🥺..
@@imanih.8970 you are the sweetest ❤️
the way they Completely ignored the slavery points was so blatant and made it even more uncomfortable.. i appreciate kafir for bringing it up and atia for at least Trying to aknowledge it
You need to consider the fact that jubilee heavily trimmed down the whole recording to fit into 46 minutes and so you can't be definite on whether points were ignored or not .
No it was ignored and that’s why the other girl spoke up on how it was ignored.
Cause he took it out of context, if he tried to read the verse before he would know that its about who you can marry. He could also just look up the meaning
@@Aramisooo in what context is slavery okay ? '^'
@@444ngelicbeing surah an nisa verse 24 "Also ˹forbidden are˺ married women-except ˹female˺ captives in your possession." You can not marry a woman thats already married. It has nothing to do with slaves
Jad saying he's not gonna blatantly disrespect anyone as if he wasn't just openly comparing a consenting gay relationship to literal incest is absolutely ridiculous. The lack of self-awareness is crazy.
Couldn't agree more!
The whole message of lgbt is ‘love is love’. So he is simply challenging that’s message. If you don’t understand lgbt is a doorway to pedophilia and incest your small minded.
❤️🏳️🌈
yes, he´s an as**ole all the time
Completely respect Jad for not sugar coating the deen
You guys should do a Stay at home mom VS the working mom episode. I’d love to see it!
they already did that. its an older video (I think back in 2020 or 2021)
They did it!!
Even though I haven't seen it I know that judging by the stats most women would prefer to stay at home instead
imagine being an Izlam abdul
@@KD400_ why?
Wow the guy said islam comes from a feminist place he really doesn’t know what he is talking about
Your name is islamic
@@Mus12176 so ?
@@sauravroy209 However in history, we only find in india and japan
women could also be a state head
The “I can have 4 wives and we would all know who the father is if I impregnate them, but if a woman has 4 husbands we won’t know who impregnated them??” Is so incredibly odd. The ex-Muslim’s guy’s face when he was saying that exactly summed up my thoughts on it, like dude WTF??
like?? why would it matter who impregnated the wife? assuming it's allowed, all husbands are legitimate, so they would still all be one family. morally fine.
and the fact that he used this logic tells me exactly why women and men aren't equal in Islam
Muslims have a full encyclopedia of such logics.
@@1dowhatyouwant you’re insane if you think it doesn’t matter who the father is. Men would want their own biological children as well, not to raise another man’s child.
@@SpaghettiBolognese99 well i figured they have loads of insane and ridiculous double standards which they conveniently explain as god’s will, what’s one more
@@SpaghettiBolognese99who cares it's family or just do a DNA test
Jad didnt come here to potentially get his mind changed, he came here to try and change other peoples minds. Atia was the most respectful and emotionally mature person, and Kafir brought up researched and uncomfortable truths that the Muslim individuals couldn't speak on. I wish moderators didn't halt some conversations.
Actually they did spoke but jubilee cut the discussion and what did atia do that was amazing?
imagine being an Izlam abdul
@@CoolestSwordFighterleast obvious rage bait
@@symbolofhope903Cope, Izlam supporter
i think this is such a perfect comment.
jad laughing EVERY time any other person who didn’t agree with him talked is mad disrespectful. he was talking way too much about respect to be this disrespectful.
Didn’t f with his vibe since the conservative vs liberal video. And it’s not because he’s a conservative because I myself is conservative leaning but there is something about him that I really don’t like.
@@Shanoxxa Same. and it’s also ofcourse not about muslims either. i grew up muslim, he’s not like us.
Clearly he doesn't respect any other people or its belief...
Where was he being disrespectful though? I think that taha guy was mad disrespectful. He kept huffing and puffing and interrupting when him and the other guy spoke. Clear bias against muslims
@@nabilrahman6516 but laughing every time that girl made a statement is still disrespectful
Im a malaysian ex muslim and there is a saying in the ex muslim community
'muslim reads the quran
ex muslim understands the quran'
hindus of india seee the Qur'an effect
@@jogichamarHindus You're just idiots.
LoL anything nonsense???
ex muslims r clueless
@@ameen7538 did u watch the video?
On the ‘Men and Women are created equal’ prompt, I wish they discussed Kafir’s point about slavery.
They did, it was just edited out
@@polin1710no disrespect, but how do you know that?
@@aliciaserrano9698 the guy in red was going to say something ab it but host cut him off
I am so sure they cut this out. No Muslim would be quite by a such provocative statement
Yes 😢
I just wanted to add: not questioning your beliefs is exactly what leads to extremism. This is true for any religion and also for atheists in terms of political views.
Well in the Quran you’re supposed to question. So I wouldn’t say we blindly just follow. Every question has an answer, so why not ask and get the answer.
@@therapy454 What verse are you talking about, because from what i have reed it says quite the opposite.
"Ask the followers of the remembrance if you know not" Quran 16:43@@MohamadQadir-jb5yb
@@nasirghaznawi1182It sounds more like "If you don't understand something (about the religion) then ask" and not like "Question what you believe". There's a huge difference. It even sounds like the opposite. It's giving "Just believe what we tell you"
@@MohamadQadir-jb5yb what have you read?
I would argue that this should have been done in a Muslim country, but then I remembered that it's impossible to do this in a Muslim country.
How do you think people convert to Islam in sharia abiding countries, without restraint? Stop being arrogant and actually use your brain
@@hh41410 they are forced to convert..... was that a rhetorical question?
@@brianarc2 do u know what culture is?
@@brianarc2 yeha people forced Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Andrew Tate to become muslim? Youre just brainwashed
LOL!!!
the joke is you cant be a ex muslim in muslim countries
"islam comes from a feminist place" - I almost died laughing
@@GhoudaBajji then you don't know the history of islam
@@GhoudaBajjiI was born and raised in a Muslim country too and had the absolute best upbringing unfortunately I no longer live in that country bc of western imperialism and invasion spreading “freedom and democracy” in my country. But yeah
Litteraly one of the longest surrahs in the quran is called An Nisa (The Women) with 176 ayahs or lines
@@handfuloflight bwahah! People can see reality of today. We are no more in middle ages but muslims refuse to believe that. Their female rights also stuck in middle ages
@@SleepyBoi-b5qso..?
Saying “if it’s ok for two males to have s3x, then what is the problem with doing it with your brother” is logically equivalent as saying “if it’s ok for men and women to have s3x, what is the problem with doing it with your sister”. It’s a non-sequitur fallacy
Exactly, was disappointed no one mentioned being homosexual is NOT a choice, just like how you don’t have a choice on your skin colour
IT IS A CHOICE. There is no gay gene. Also the point is not to compare the two i.e gay and incest. The point highlights that liberal view of acceptance of gay people has no moral justification, the same as they dont have any justification NOT to do incest. Why dont you do incest?
@@Do27gg it is a choice
🤦♂️🤦♂️ but you are the one saying “love is love between two consenting adults”
So we showed you that two consenting adults can be siblings?
What is your counter argument to that? Why is it wrong if they used protection?
@@Do27gg 💀🤦♂️🤦♂️
Doesn’t that also apply on pedophiles?
If you're going to host these types of conversations, bring on learned people who can engage with the topic - otherwise it's just an emotional conversation.
Religion is composed and supported by average people. Therefore average people need to be on this kind of videos
@@yomilala8929 The average person's theological ignorance has no benefit for the conversation nor the audience. Like I said by that point it's just an anecdotal and emotional exchange, there's no value in this as no one walks away any wiser.
that's not the point of this show. it's meant to be everyday people who are believers and non-believers engaging in discourse. when we talk about other issues like race, no one demands experts, why for this issue?
It was just emotional arguments from the non Muslims side, besides the masked guy, and I don’t even know why Atai is on the podcast if she’s just agreeing with everything the ex-Muslims are saying
@@MyPimpedOutMuslim they were all pretty emotional and also very reasoned. it was a mixed bag. but this is how everyday religious and non-religious people are.
The way they justified suppressing women as protecting them… if men are the problem, women shouldn’t be forced to change for them. If men can’t control themselves even by just hearing a woman’s VOICE they need to be kept on a leash. Act like a dog, get treated like one.
How do we teach people not to sexualize women. Its not possible. Its natural and problematic response.
@@adil2curtay by teaching them NOT TO SEXUALIZE WOMEN
They always use that excuse to justify the way they treat women.
@@adil2curtayIf you can’t control yourself, please don’t leave the house.
I am not sure women are "oppressed" in Islam specifically more than men, other than covering their hair? pretty much anything else is applied to both genders.
I'm an ex-muslim. This video further makes me turn away from this gross religion.
Exactly same here ❤
Nobody cares 😂
Why do you reply if you don't care you are coping cope bro 😂😂
This is a classic example of why secularism is so important. The government should have nothing to do with somebody’s faith or lack of faith.
it's not somebody's faith, it's a whole nation's faith, if anything a state where faith is excluded from politis and laws means any law could be passed without regards to a whole group of people's obligations or prohibitions, perfect example is france banning the abaya from school which in fact is an obligation (hijab and covering the body for women ) in islamic faith and it's a sin to go in public without covering so the law disadvantaged the muslims and opressed them so there should be religious coutries (islamic , christian ...) where people of that specific religion live in to ensure thier religious rights
That is terrifying. Theocratic countries have the worst human rights records. (Look at how LGBT+ and women are treated in Middle-Eastern countries) Not to mention that basing law on the supernatural/invisible has dangerous precedent. You can't use logic or cross-examine it. That's how the Salem Witch Trials got so out of hand and why "invisible evidence" was banned thereafter.
And in many of these theocratic countries, you're labeled an apostate just for not being in that religion. No freedom.
@@hibba3764a whole nation cant have a faith, because no matter what humans do in every nation there will be people of different faiths, and all humans should be free to express their believes however they want. Excluding religion from the law doesnt mean you can pass any law you want, as not everything in life gets its value from religion and morality doesnt have to come from religion
@@hibba3764brainwash
@@hibba3764W France
Has anyone else noticed how as this series progresses, the Jubilee staff continue to interupt more and more frequently and also seem to be steering or guiding the conversation in a way? I think they should allow the people who are featured to speak more freely without intervening so often but thats just me.
the muslims in the video already posted a video about this, Jubilee agenda posted this video. one of the so called ex-muslims was never even a muslims and he himself had told Jubilee staff this and yet they continued this video.
Yes they seem very biased and it shows
I think it’s helpful to keep on track and not go down too many rabbit holes
Also what's the point of a middle ground if the parties aren't supposed to fully explore the conversation with disagreement and all? Like literally.
I’ve noticed that and they’re very rude about it too 😭
Pls do American vs European Christians/Catholics! Never heard anyone suggest this but think it would be super interesting to see the differences.
I agree 👍
Orthodox vs catholic
Do LGBT Church vs regular Church
@@happymood888 i think they did that already!
@@pinkediax dam I'll check it out
He really just said women can’t make the call to prayer “ to protect the women, because men are attracted to their voices” like 😐
There's something so poetic about the two different people who are both masked.
i agree, i liked both of their points. thoughtful commentary. everyone else was just yapping
One is wearing a mask to protect herself from men , the other is wearing a mask to protect himself from muslim men knocking on his door.
Damn. That''s deep.
@@andin3720 He literally explained in a very heart breaking way that it was for his mother.
@@andin3720dont make up your stories lil guy
I’d like to see Turkic Muslims (like former USSR Muslims) vs Arab Muslims. Two VERY different Muslims.
Or indonesian muslims AND chinese muslims. There are 20x more muslim in china than usa(approx 25 mill muslims from various ethnicity is living in china), and they are thriving there. I know arab world is the center of islam, but muslim around the world is very different from one country to other country
you'll find the most extreme muslims from south asia since that's their only identity
African muslim too!
European Muslims as well like Bosnians Albanians chechens etc vs Arab vs turkick Muslims seem cooler .
3:05 "I believe that Islam is one of the religions that encourages questioning."
31:29 "I choose not to question it because I'm a Muslim."
Yeah, sounds like not brainwash talk at all..
I saw her first comment as a general statement and her choice not to question as a specific application of faith to choose discipline.
😂
I thought I was the only one who noticed this
The contradiction lol
Speaks volumes that one of the defectors feels like he has to hide his identity...
@@anayam9690 Quran 2:282
Bukhari 2658
bukhari 1:6:301
Bukhari 3:48:826
Bukhari 1339
Bukhari 7099
Bukhari 6842-6843
Quran 33:50
Bukhari 5134
Sunan ibn majah 1982
Bukhari 6930
Fr
If u watched he video its because he doesnt want his mother to see him
The gay ex-Muslim covering his face to protect his mother broke my heart
That would be very sad but he’s Hindu pretending to be ex Muslim and his insta revealed the truth
@@Wabbajack-kj2kg he literally just said his insta
@@Nazisonyt I must have missed that. I didn’t catch every minute of it but I watched over 90%. Either way, it still breaks my heart a little that he feels he has to do this to not hurt his mother. Or shame her. That’s the vibe I got
@@NazisonytNice fictional story you made there
@@Nazisonyt why you guy's always bring hindu 😂 you guy's always bring hindu in everything 😂
Just because men can be attracted to a woman’s ankle, forearm, any body part that is covered by the garb (and not being able to go to the call of prayer because of being attracted to their voice)… shouldn’t men be taught to have self control and respect for a woman and not just look at her as an object?
Yes, a verse in the Quran was revealed telling the Muslim men to lower their gaze before the verses about women’s clothing.
Exactly, and what if a woman was attracted to a man’s face or something, he doesn’t wear a hijab? 😂
They have to lower their gaze... unless they're forcing themselves on prisoners of war
@@OnlyAbriS no men don’t wear a hijab, however hijab translates to barrier. Men have their own hijab e.g covering themselves from the naval to the knee. As for the face, the prophet Yusuf covered his face due to his beauty.
@@am1raayanle826 sooo men would be attracted to a woman’s hair? 💀
Jad saying that Janet is being disrespectful for implying that women are forced to wear hijabs and not makes choices for themselves is wild cause Janet is Iranian and in Iran aren’t women literally being murdered for not wearing the hijab “properly” ? So yes, some Muslim women ARE being forced to wear hijab and are losing their lives. That doesn’t include the hijabi’s who obviously choose to wear hijab and don’t find it oppressive.
I’m here to say more. The Jad guy is so condescending and annoying. How is he comparing same sex relationships and to being the equivalent of an incest relationship as if Muslims themselves don’t literally be marrying their blood cousins. That’s incest too. So it’s fine because they are two different genders? like make it make sense 😂
W jad is the best
THANK YOU 👏 THIS! women are literally murdered and raped by muslim men just for not submitting to mandatory hijab. also death penalty is the traditional form of punishment for both male and female apostates for leaving Islam. and guess what? if you officially announce you don't want to be a muslim anymore, you will be hanged in Iran. this all happens because the muslims are in charge of the country
Yeah his logic makes sense only if he were to discuss with himself, he has no interest in listening to the other side
@@Ibn_al_sham123of course you radical 😂
I know many Muslim girls who remove hijab in the office or in the bathroom of the college. Or classes. They also get harassed by their cousins if they find out that she is talking with guys from another religion or atheist.
AND STILL FEW OF THEM DEFEND THIS😂😂😂
Brainless or brainwashed, same
As a woman, I would never wanna be in a room with Jad
Imagine how much he will dominate women in her family
And his wife 😢
Jubilee brought 2 "Muslims" that thought more like the "ex-Muslims." And one of the 4 "ex-Muslims" admitted after this was posted that he explicitly told Jubilee he was never Muslim. Another one, the masked guy, PM'ed Faiyad afterwards to tell him they cut out his response on slavery and even he thought that was unfair.
Absolutely the only thing more cancerous than this video is the comments section
Very strange, more people should see this
Exactly what happened. It's ridiculous
Imagine being an Izlam supporter
@@CoolestSwordFighter Imagine having Islam living in your head rent free. If you dont like it, find something better to do with your time.
Jad is a terrible debater. Any criticism or opinion of Islam he comes back with THATS DISRESPECTFUL. Its a debate bro.
A debate can be respectful...
@@Rbobbycbut nothing they said was disrespectful 💀 it was just a difference in opinion....he sounded slow
Classic muslim behaviour tho.
@@yasmina1994 so therefore jad wasn't disrespectful
Your watching a nippet of what usually is a long video. The tensions don't arise just over one question. Also jubilee put a non muslim there?
“women can’t do the call to prayer because men can be attracted to the voice of a woman” bruh 😭😭😭
Jad speaks for himself, I don't think that's actually true, Men and Women have different roles in Islam, Women are not prohibited to do the call of prayer. But why would they even do it? We rarely see Female Pastor?
@@Rose-ry9vyit literally *is* true
@@Rose-ry9vyid love to see a Christian try to answer this
@@Rose-ry9vy In Christianity many people believe that women shouldn’t be priests/pastors, thats why. Even though there are people who say differently. Honestly it depends on the type of church
@@Rose-ry9vy first of all, why is everybody comparing Christianity and Islam? Both are Religions. And the Point is that the Islam might or might not be Equal and noone talks about that the Islam beeing worse than the Christianity with Equality. So I dont see why you try make that a Point?
Leaving Islam was the best decision I’ve ever made.
@dannynasrullahlol 😂
Pls don't come back 😂😢 we don't need you
not really bro you will realise soon
im just gonna say, youll see it soon and endure it with your own eyes, respectfully... no hate but just be patient, that day is closer than u think it is
that and the john marston pfp? youre cool
I'm not really satisfied with the responses on either sides. I feel like relevant questions were asked, but none were really answered in a productive way. Would love to see a conversation between professionals!
this!!!
agreed. Atia and Kafir were the best but they didn’t get to talk enough
There's a series of videos from conference in Britain from years ago for secular Muslims. Nice panel discussions.
Exactly! I was disappointed with this whole group.This was a very basic, surface level discussion with non of them having knowledge of the Quran to use in their arguments. Kafir got away with the most ludacris explanation of the verse in Surah Nisa and no one from the other side even questioned the authenticity of the source/hadith and author.
Yeah it's so layman at this day and age of information, I can't believe people would fall for so easily for this, they need to get off the net and read actual books 😂
"women can't do the call of prayer because men can be attracted to it."
bro at this point women shouldn't breathe because the chest goes up and down, men could be tempted!!!
The orthodox position is that women cannot lead prayers for men, which is justified by the different roles that men and women take in society however, there is no Hadith and Quran verse that prohibits Muslim women from doing so.
In your sense woman should be allow to enter men's bathroom
😂😂😂😂
Do you see a Jewish woman as a rabbi or a Christian Woman as a pastor or priest?
not true
Interesting only 'Kafir' quoted issues taken directly from the quran and no one could give an answer
literally, was so confused that every time he spoke no one said a word in return? 😭
Cause they got stumped when the dude actually read quran and called it out. They could not answer it without making Islam look evil.
@@forkrust9296 they answered it, it was just cut out. do your research
@@forkrust9296 It is because it is illegal and a sinn in Islam to question anything in it
@@NibCowler Lol research is something a 7 century barbarian religion followers must do. The whole thing is unscientific and misogynistic.
Saying islam is comning from a femenist perspective is delusional
Saying that for any abrahamic religion is wild
Atia is a muslim woman living in a non muslim country, that is a very important factor that influences her opinion about the religion
oh i missed it i thought she was from bangladesh? or is her family from there
@@tofuwienershe was born in Bangladesh but living in US. All participants are Americans.
girl literally grew up in Bangladesh. She said that growing up in a very religious environment made her question Islam and being in a more secular environment (once she moved to America/started college) allowed her to experience Islam on her own and that's why she chooses to be Muslim.
@@trish719 she obviously was lying
Meaning she had the actual opportunity to be free and think freely.
The ways to "protect women" seems to be more so to "protect men" from lust.
Exactly. They punish women for men not wanting to control themselves.
how is it "punishing" women?@@schneedgod
@@GeneralKenobi-t1x When your religion forces women to cover themselves and not have basic human rights all because men don't want to control themselves, that is punishment.
@@schneedgodwhy not mention how in islam, men are compelled by law to pay for their wives but their wives have 0 obligation to pay a cent of their earnings for the husband?
@@RenderingUserso that means they aren’t oppressed?
As an ex muslim, its so comforting to know that others can see the delulu in this religion. Genuine criticism of islam is so needed to protect women especially and to inspire much needed updates. Im glad there are people brave enough to have this conversation since any criticism of islam is so quickly labelled islamophobic, when in reality contradiction isnt persecution.
ex-muslims in a lot of cases have some kind of toxic ego complex, this was very noticeable in the debate; the ex-muslims were not only hardly versed in Islam, but their only driving factors was to appeal to emotions and push on secular liberal norms which practically dictate "why should anyone get any special treatment?" these so called "free thinkers" are mind slaves to modern secular liberalism, yet have the audacity to call others brainwashed in a religion they choose to follow.
@@hello-hi-5 Clearly YOU didn't watch the video, nor fully read my comment; You undermined my critiques, and clearly you don't stand by what you're saying either if you have a problem with me pointing out that Ex-Muslim aren't so much held together by intellectual discourse, but through grudge and disliking for Islam (emotional appeal). I can only conclude that people are only favoring them because they've either got some poor excuse of a sob story for leaving, or because ex-Muslims favor most people's nihilistic norms.
@@flounderpounder5197 (Im on a different account, I’ve tried to edit my ordinal comment and don’t know why but for some reason it got deleted.( Or at least I can’t see it anymore) I was trying to add an edit/ reply to my comment regarding your new reply, since my comments were getting deleted. Or again at least it looks like they are to me, I can’t see them, so I’m just adding my ordinal comment back, on a different account, and replying to your other comment below it, if you don’t see my reply below this, I’ll give the short answer, I still think you didn’t really say anything, (Edit: and no, you didn’t just “point that out. And just because someone gets emotional, doesn’t give their arguments any less value.) It just sounds like you can’t take criticism. ( I did go a lot more in-depth in my reply, just depends if you can see it or not) I can’t seem to give a proper response without it getting deleted, for some reason, but hopefully by changing accounts I can.)
Please stop it. Like Instead of listening to what people are saying, you’re just saying nonsense things and dismissing Ex-Muslims experiences. (did you even watch the video? How did the Ex-Muslims have an “ego complex.”) Sounds like you’re the one being toxic and being the emotional one here. All ideology’s should be criticised, if you can’t handle that, then maybe you should ask yourself why. Because whether you like it or not, it is really important to criticised toxic/harmful ideas and beliefs.
@@flounderpounder5197 By the way Atia was crying in one part of the debate, if you want to get augmentative about “emotions,”
edit: And this isn’t my proper reply, I want to say a lot more but every time I do, it’s get deleted, and or I can’t seem to see the comments, so I just put this here.
"Men might be attracted to your voice" "Men might be attracted to your face."
ehh...So, make all the men stay at home instead? (Since they seem to be the potential perpetrators anyway, as opposed to the women in this case, who are the potential victims)
That was my first argument against this and it took me about 3 seconds to think of. It’s like…come on dude. He sits there and cites scientific literature (inaccurately) whenever it suits him but goes religious whenever it suits him. Psychological bias at its finest.
THANK YOU
Men in Islam are told to LOWER THEIR GAZE.
Exactly, now women have to cover completely and stay home because men have no self control
Destroyed 🤣🤣
I was a bit unhappy to learn I had to pay to view the whole conversation. :( And I'm not sure what's going on, but this was the most frustrating video I've watched due to the constant interruptions from the behind-the-scenes people. Let an entire conversation play out, I thought was supposed to be how can we come to a middle ground, not let's just attack each other. I think the selection of people should've been vetted more, it seemed like one of the non-Muslims was never Muslim.
I copy-pasted this comment from one a bit above yours.
Jubilee brought 2 "Muslims" that thought more like the "ex-Muslims." And one of the 4 "ex-Muslims" admitted after this was posted that he explicitly told Jubilee he was never Muslim. Another one, the masked guy, PM'ed Faiyad afterwards to tell him they cut out his response on slavery and even he thought that was unfair.
Yeah, this conversation seemed far too controlled
@@gunpookiethis is such a poor comment.
Aita and the niqab girI are musIims, whether peopIe like jad like it or not. They dont "think like ex musIims" no, they are simply musIims who disagree with him. The whole point is to represent many types of musIims, which they did
Its true that jubiIee messed up with Faiyad as he was never truIy a musIim but he barely talked anyway so it didnt affect the conversation that much
FinaIIy, JubiIee always cuts out segments and Kafir himseIf in the ex musIim subreddit said that they cut out many of his responses as weII. This isnt oppression this is common practice because the videos need to be under a certain Iength
MusIims are just mad cause this video exposed the eviI of this reIigion
@@botanicalitus4194 I agree, its annoying how people are calling Atia and the niqabi girl ex-muslims because they don't have the same views as the two muslim guys, like people are allowed to have different opinions and perspectives. Your last sentence is so wrong though, Islam is not evil at all, its culture and people. The religion itself is beautiful but unfortunately people have tainted it.
How can you call gunpookie's comment poor, when you just called islam evil?@@botanicalitus4194
"When you say it's best for me: there is a threat" 100% agree and Kafir broke it down beautifully. The countless documentaries of Muslim women in all cultures and how they are treated by Men in their culture and religion blows out everything anyone on this panel can say about how they treat women.
so when your mum says that something that u should do is best for u, it is a threat??
@@SalsaSaniyour woman isn’t a child and more importantly she isn’t your child. That basic human respect to give people the freedom to think and behave for themselves as long they don’t hurt anyone.
@@SalsaSani you can be beat in Islamic countries under proper jurisprudence
@@rightsidetv4235u can’t cuz it’s illegal bro 😂
@@rabiamultan9481 In 2016, the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) advocated allowing a husband to beat his wife if he feels it is necessary, as well as requiring women to breastfeed their children for two years.
Jad not looking at women according to his religious beliefs just proves the fact that he sees the potential in himself to have a sexualized view towards women
And that also acknowledges the lack of self control that muslim men have
It’s crazy because I’ve seen people from the west praises that and call it “respectful” 😂!
Women are attractive to men's voices as well... They're also attracted to men's hair and beards. This is why, out of all the major religions, this one is the most frightening because it's archaic practices and beliefs are still being ubiquitously recognized.
The awrah is a joke. Men don't have to cover the entire top half of their body, and I've had apologists try to tell me that "women aren't visual creatures."
@SomethingSomethingg
Just say that you’re racist 😂
?
@@iridoscyclitis what woman has ever said oh I would love to see a mans upper body.....
@@Fayrosegem Not even sure you'll be able to see this comment but many lmao
The fact that Muslim men are the ones who are more concern about women wearing the hijab and being so defensive about it just says a lot
bcos theres only one women there wearing hijab u fool
entire world is suffrening from ☪ancer especially in india thye have started craeting a lot of violnece and disharmony
i genuinely started crying at Kafir's answer about his mom
true
Yeah it's really hard to hear
I hope he reaches out for help
:(
@@MrLoading anyway did any of you noticed his name? :(
@@user-hw6xm4pw7z no he didnt reveal it sadly
@@user-hw6xm4pw7z i don't think kafir is his real name, cuz he wants to be anonymous.
Radical Islam is the snake hiding in the grass
Moderate Islam is the grass hiding the snake
Mind elaborating
@@rvnz3668 Mind Blowing!
@@Drunk3nMonk3y72 facts
'I choose not to question it because i'm a muslim'... answers the first question so well
Not capleble of understanding What Trust in Gold means
@@kigi5784 yes i very much trust gold
@@kigi5784 I put my trust in silver 😏
@@NaoEgokoro_72 virgins too?
And the whole periodic table
They talk about how muslim are unfairly targeted but never talk about the fact that there are literally laws in some countries that allow the execution of ex-muslims.
It's sad that there's not more focus on the existential crisis that it is to be an ex-muslim living in a muslim society and the daily scrutiny you're exposed to.
I mean an ex-muslim woman got stabbed for putting her beliefs out there. Would an ex-muslim ever stab a muslim for his believes? I've never seen that so I feel like it was really wrong for them to attack ex-muslims on their hatred when ex-muslims are already hated by both sides and in literal danger of death.
thank you
i feel like they rlly undermine how scary being an ex muslim are. being shunned by youre muslim family is already traumatizing enough, but in some country conversion can causes u death or prison. which is literally oppression and a jail in of itself. being a muslim is not a choice from the start, it’s thrown in ur face ever since u are born. when u decided you believe things differently, you get punished. it baffled me how somehow people argue islam is not oppressive.
@@irish2661hi Irish how was your day? I just wanted to say please don’t blame a religion for the actions of the bad people in it you could say the same for any religion .
@@HnoofhMohamed Indeed you could say the same for any religion. And I do. Who else do I blame for problems that stem *directly* from religion? You can pretend all the problems are from people doing it wrong, but that's just a convenient excuse based off of the presupposition of "our religion is perfect, any problems are yours"
@@HnoofhMohamedyou clearly didn't read or understood the Quran.... You were basically reciting a bunch of words and didn't really understood what they meant. Once you understand it, you become an exmuslim
It really pissed me off how all of them were capriciously evading K@fir's questions , he literally quoted verses and lines directly from the holy books. While carefully examining and choosing to refute only the weak arguments made by Ex-Muslims.
Kafir also made weak arguments. He made his own interpretations.
It's not about taking sides but rather fostering a meaningful and balanced discussion where all viewpoints are addressed, regardless of interpretation@@cyberverse9141
@@cyberverse9141 how is quoting the book his own interpretation?
The fact that they did not answer his question is proof they couldn't argue his points
@@keletsom8000 the guy in the red literally said I'll address slavery part after a sec but because of time limit it got missed
@@keletsom8000 Who claimed that the hadith of the female slave implied that you could have something forceful? Looking into it, we can see that he actually GUESSED when he said "probably means grape" when this is an exegesis that is not supported by the further implications of what the relationship between concubine is. He kept quoting scholars, like at 4:24 when he said scholars said it allowed for concubinage and then when it came to that, he ran away from scholarly opinion.
I love when religious people try to intellectualize something that was made up out of nowhere.
atheism is irrational
i love how atheists think theyre smart but theyre actually totally irrational
Jad compared homosexuality to incest but did he forget that first cousins are allowed to marry eachother in Islam. How is that not incest? It's so ironic lol. 27:07
Cousins have really different genetic makeup than siblings. One of the parent from each side is a sibling, the other parent are still out of the box. So cousins literally have 50% of different DNA making it a REALLY different situation as compared to incest.
@@tintedqualia but isn't it.. still incest...
@@shia2308 by definition of incest, it isn't
@tintedqualia but what if the family doest it over and over again uninterruptedly for many generations, as it is a common case in a few Muslim countries, then doesn't it start having a similar effect as incest?
@@lynb.3040 I understand what you're talking about, but you know what, this is a cultural thing and not a "Muslim" thing. Islam actually encourages out of culture marriages and there are many examples of it in the past
as a pre med, jad’s STD argument was literally painful to witness. i would have loved to be there just to shut him up
bro as a human, his arguments were painful 😭 the whole men vs women segment just made me sad
"as a pre-med" LMFAO. as a a MS3, i hate when premeds think they know everything and negate others. gives me terrible flashbacks as a premed.
are you saying you disagree with padfoots opinions on the STD section?@@sufom7201
Ong say it louder pls.@@sufom7201
you're a pre-med lmao pipe tf down
I can pregnant 4 women and still we know who is the father 😂😂😂. I mean seriously what kind of logic is that and how can a girl defend that guy.
Brainwashed
And actually, what does it matter if the woman doesn't know who the father is? All four of the men that she married can still take care of her. All four of them can be the father even if not biological. The logic is ridiculous.
@@GenerationNextNextNextyou’re talking about how their logic is ridiculous but you’re saying that it doesn’t matter if you don’t figure out who the father is??
Womaniser defend it
It's based and attracts men to convert and continue this tradition in the west. Alhamdulilah
Woman can also be attracted to the males voice or any body part for that matter.
Jad sounds like a programed robot .. not actually talking with .. but talking at ppl .. very creepy and cultish
Would it be okay if ur husband or bf looked at the boobs if this girl which may lead to sleeping with her later(cheating on u)?At least my dude is lowering his gaze,like look how strong is he!not looking at a half naked woman in front of you is great and i bet you want your partner to be like this so chill hun
He's also parroting the same lines which were programmed into him by his masters (Imams and Maulvis)
He wants the 4 wives privilege/ controlling husband to some poor girl.
He just doesn’t have eye contact with the woman because that’s exactly what he should do and that’s what Islam says
Congratulations, you've summed up the entire Muslim population that thinks their religion is the numero uno
I just wanna take a moment to really appreciate Atia and D'Harmonie, as well as Kafir for remaining so calm, respectful, and perceptive throughout the conversation, despite the conflict. Especially Atia.
They were all respectful and perceptive.
Yes I loved both of them
He is goddamn trolling, his real name is not kafir😅
atia was incredible!
Jad saying he would never blatantly disrespect someone’s “lifestyle” moments after comparing homosexuality to incest is laughable to say the least
So what is the difference tho?
@@NoMercy.62 to be more specific. We aren't prepared for that. Mostly cause it gives the next generation physical handicapped.
no but seriously you're proving his point, what's the difference?
@@NoMercy.62one is sex with family members while the other is sex with adults who have no other family history. There is literally no correlation
@@NoMercy.62They explained the difference. You're too slow to understand such a simple concept through.
So weird having someone who can't and won't look you in the eye when they are talking to you.
32:40 struck me as deeply ironic. He says he would NEVER blatantly disrespect a homosexual, and yet compares their relationships to incest. Wow.
what’s the difference
@@harishussain7281 with a strawman.
@@cartizas4256D'Harmonie explained it herself in the video. A power dynamic is always without consent, for example because of grooming. Kadir actually mentioned this when he talked about a relationship between an enslaved woman and her muslim master. That even if he were not to r*p3, it would still be not consensual
he didn't he was comparing the consent .. if ppl just think before they react
not only that, he also says that they will be ponished after death for it
I love Atia and how she validates everyone's POV/ facilitates some heated moments and calls both sides out. Much respect
when did she validate anything that is not relateble for her lmfao
Atia seems in a state of turmoil and still discovering the true path, I’m not sure if it’s beneficial to have ppl still sorting things out take up leadership positions on part of their communities as in this video. Perhaps I’m wrong and she knows a great deal while being resolute in her beliefs, but that’s just the impression I got
@@cloroxbleach6344no one has ever reached the end of the path. As humans, we are constantly changing and growing. To say that someone does not deserve equal space because they acknowledge that they are still growing seems illogical to me. She represents a great number of people in her position.
she was the onIy musIim in the group that was in any way kind and reasonabIe
@@botanicalitus4194 I disagree with that, I don’t think anyone in the video was unkind personally
Atia was the most respectful muslim in this discussion, her empathy and ambiguity was really commendable. Also I love that Janet made the point that she is attracted to women but doesn't feel the need to sexualise them and act inappropriately. Kafir had a very interesting outlook and made many good points that unfortunately were not always adressed. Also Jad is so set in his ways and its alarming he couldnt see the evident disparity between incest and homosexuality. It was a very irrelevant comparison.
I didn't see any of the muslims disrespecting any ex muslims, and I don't see why when non muslims challenge the laws of islam they feel victimized when they realize their ideology is being challenge, or to them "attacked". Also can you tell me why protected incest with someone you never grew up with is morally wrong? No disrespect but I genuinely want to know where you derive your morality from in this aspect
She’s not a muslim. She even admitted herself indirectly.
@@John-pk9rw where
@@John-pk9rw She never did, and it's funny to see any Muslim deny another Muslim of their faith since that's a major sin in Islam in of itself.
She keeps talking. But she never say her personal opinion. She just copy and refer to others person opinion. Waste of space and time
Women defending islam is like chicken defending KFC
women who defending islam is a lion and i think chicken is same like you
😂😂😂😂😂 you think so
Hahaha 😂 what an analogy 🎉
ok kumar
No, it’s really not . Don’t talk for us
“We’re separate but equal” where else in history have we heard this, class?
Are you insinuating that men and women are not different?
@@zakariafraoui The real question is how significant those differences are, in what contexts they are pertinent, and the degree to which they really justify certain gender norms. These differences do not even apply to everyone, even when they exist at a group-level (save reproduction and sexually dimorphic organs), so applying such norms so rigidly to EVERYONE even then would not be justified.
Edit: Added a missing word
@caba3995 Biological sex differences by definition do not vary between cultures; if they did, they would not be biological differences, and might stem from culture, division of labour and societal structures which can be changed.
Furthermore, you completely ignored that many people would still deviate from even the societally constructed norms related to sex and gender. In places like Arabia, they face significant discrimination which culture and religion cannot justify.
Objective truth and the normative conclusions we make from them given the same goals should not vary between cultures. To use culture to justify gender norms is to use culture to justify a part of itself, which is simply circular reasoning.
Furthermore, I am from a and live in a South Asian muslim-majority country, namely Bangladesh. Where I am from should not dictate what I think is most rationally justified, which is supposed to be more objective.
Women and men are different, but further to that women and women are different too. Everyone has their own strengths and should be allowed to live their life how they want to
Comparing incest to homosexuality is WILD
Yeah that guy jumped on that out of nowhere, he watches too many island boys videos, I guess😂
not wild… same concept
It's actually not. It again boils down to societal norms. There are kings and queens that married their relatives - not only in Game of Thrones. In real life. There were whole families that ended because of incest. At one point in time, it was morally considered normal. His argument was that we view relationships based on societal norms. It was not the correct argument to make, but I think he was trying to say that most relationships are viewed from a subjective moral lens (even when there is no risk of mutant kids as in the case of two brothers engaging in a relationship). So, nothing is truly outdated when everything is subjective. He just couldn't articulate it.
Why tho? On what basis?
Thinking it is wild explains a lot of ignorance on your behalf.
Fearing for your life because you have changed your views on a religion, speaks volumes
Who was fearing for their life?? Did you even watch the video mate?
@@shakeeliqbal1113 If you watched the video and don't know who, ask someone
.... about the family and not the religion
@@slo851 theres none..?
@@slo851 ??? let it slide then??? show me sources. because i want to know where you get yours from
Afghanistan now have a new law that woman are not allowed to speak in a public place is that a equal rights?
thats not islam tho, thats just afghanistan
@@a_isha. Is Afghanistan a Muslim country yes or no??
You need to learn how to differentiate culture and religion, there not the same thing.
@@coliat4400they literally mentioned it's a new law. it's not part of their "culture". this is all because of the religion. what else do you expect from a religion based on sexism?
@@spam-r3s Again,this new law is based on cultural beliefs.And if it were truly based on religion, wouldn’t you see all majority-Muslim countries enforce it too-but you don’t. There’s actually no basis in Islam for a law that prohibits women from speaking in public, it’s clearly a reflection of their interpretation of social or cultural norms rather than the religious scripture. You’re either misinformed or just ignorant.
As a muslim jad is the type of a muslim that there is no point of arguing with and I would avoid the most cause there is no point in arguing
bro he is no prophet.. he expressed things how he feels and believes .. same as everyone in the circle
@@bebosamy9245 I don’t remember saying he is one?
you sound like a liberal, your the type no one should talk to.
Most Muslims have been indoctrinated to be like that, very defensive about their cult and aggressive to anything that criticizes it.
very many muslims are like that
I haven't read the Quran to say whether it's written as women being lesser than men, but that is how it is practiced on a huge scale. My family is Muslim. When my grandmother died, only the women had to cover themselves up for the funeral on a very hot day. "The man's hijab is different" is such a copout. The women- most of whom were her actual children and her caretakers- couldn't approach the grave while whe was being buried while the male family members- mostly IN LAWS- could. They claimed it was decreed by the Quran because women will be too hysterical to be allowed near the grave.
Thank you for speaking your experience, I have also experienced this eso for funerals
This is not stipulated in the Quran.
@@IMHS21How do we determine whether to judge a group by its written values or by its common actions? When I ask my dad about problematic things, he does often say that it's not in the Quran. Yet those harmful things (in my experience mainly treatment of women) are practiced widely by Muslims. Christianity has the same issue, so not trying to single out Islam here.
@@IMHS21It is though. The quran says a woman's testimony and inheritance share account for half a man's. And the hadiths call women intellectually deficient,.making the inferior to men.
@@BroJo676 a woman testimony is not half in the Quran. For all the testimonies mans and women's are equal. There is only one case, in a financial inheritance situation that a women was to be supported by another women.
I don't want to write endless about this. But if you genuinely want to learn about this I recommend a video of Quranic Islam about the two testimonies a livestream a few weeks ago.
The way the guy avoids the slavery grape question entirely is enough 😂
Finally someone said it ..why is no one talking about that ? Or topics like child marrige?
I’ve never met a Muslim in my life who had a slave. Also, it’s not rape because they have to consent.
That was a time when slavery was prevalent in society. No modern Muslims practiced slavery.
The Muslims who did in the 7th century Arabia where having concubines was a thing…it still is a thing (see bill gates). You have to buy them treat them well take care of them and not abuse them. And that was in a society almost 2000 years ago.
So no, Muslim men’s are not allowed to rape people. You’re twisted for thinking that.
The US military however, does permit this in the 21 st century. And the Mossad.
See Epstein. See Abu Ghraib Prison. See the Mauritanian
@@teal2774 u should do some research abt it. it is clear it was edited out
it was edited out :)
it was edited out pal get you're eyes checked
Jad makes my blood boil when he compared homosexuality to incest. what a disgrace!
Big win for jad.
@@Thyenigma You really are a Nobody like it says in your name. So pipe down
There is no difference between the both.Bth are equally horrible and must be banned.
W Jad
@@immu365 true just like there's no difference between heterosexuality and incest, both are equally horrible and must be banned.
A women cover her face because men can be attracted to it and this step will show only her personality. Alright nicely said. Will the men hide his face if a women is attracted to his face? Will the men stop talking if his voice is sexy? I guess the answer would be no. So ladies and gentlemen here you see the hypocrisy.
Men have been created to have a natural inclination to woman. It's their test in this World. If we don't acknowledge that this world is a test, how will we see Allah's laws as been just.?
Being just *
Well said. Come to think of it, it seems the early Muslims didn’t know that women can lust after men too. Many boys don’t know this till they grow up and realize women have needs too just like I did - I was super conservative in women’s rights till I became liberal once I realized women are just like men in more ways than we are not
mate, niqab is not a must, but hijab is, and who said women can't talk?
@@kinglife69 If you watch this video, the muslims gave excuses about niqab. They said it's to limit the attraction between them and I just wanted to point out that men's faces and voices could be sexy for women too. Will they hide it?
31:35 “I chose not to question it because I’m a Muslim”
Coming from the same girl who earlier said “Islam encourages questioning”
If "cognitive dissonance" was a person. Unfortunately, most Western Muslims are like this because their religion is inherently anti-"modern-day Western value."
By that I think she meant she has trust in her religion. Islam definitely does encourage questioning and she shared that her questioning is what strengthened her faith in the religion overall.
Idk what is up with people thinking that to believe and submit to a religion you must know all the answers, that would quite literally mean that one religion is 100% factually correct, which removes the part that is most important in belief, which is the action of believing.
Fr fr
THIS! idk i felt shes still struggling with her faith sadly
Islam is so peaceful that dude covered his face
Yeah it is
then why didnt the others u absolute fool
The dude covered his face because of his mom bro
It's crazy that the muslims avoided addressing the multiple wives and rape issues
It's a religious tactic. If you can't answer, then:
Avoid
Dodge
Gaslight
Ignore
Etc
Literally they always do this and then often they bring other religions ie Christianity into it , but we are not asking about other we are asking specifically about Islam.
The issue about multiple wives isn’t about having 4 wives just cause, during times of war women’s husbands died in which they couldn’t take care of themselves, marrying 4 wives to take care of them and you must treat them fair and just and have permission from your wife. These Muslims aren’t scholers, don’t expect them to know everything about the religion
Literally @@LymphaticSystem-of3vn
@@Spastic110Well the same verse allows Muslim men to have sex with slaves and female war captives, even when these women are still married to slave men.
Jad 100% went home to remind his wives that they are equal 😆
that dude is disassociating more and more through the episode lmao
His 4 niqab bodypillows
cognitive dissonance is crazy with him
funniest comment haha
@@MrRashidTV He was lowering his gaze
Saying Islam comes from a feminist place is crazy 😭
it's really not, islam is the most feminist religion out there
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 its simple mslims is sm1 who reads qran. 1 who reads n understands qran completely, leaves it.
As a muslim woman I think the truely crazy thing is how you think
@@samanabilgaber1041care to elaborate? How does pressuring women to wear face coverings empower women?
Stupidest comment followed by men are attracted to a women's voice therefore they cannot do the call to prayer
Jad is 100% the type of person I hate...
Absolutely. He's a modern monster.
I hate when religious people think non religious people have no morals.
Muslims see themselves as superior to all the rest.
they do it because they themselves only have morals because they’re afraid of punishment if not, while most non-religious people have morals because they simply don’t want to harm and inflict suffering on others.
Yes they are just a bunch of hypocrites
@@wargattack8837 ur morals are subjective though
@@SpaghettiBolognese99 don’t understand why you’re watching youtube if you’re actually muslim though it’s a major sin as this video contains both fitnah, music,
I’m so disappointed that they didn’t answer the slave women question… Faiyad did say he was gonna answer it till the director jumped in
Fr though?? Like
This ^
Time code for that please?
They have no answers
@@BroJo676 14:05 , 25:20 . These are the two places he talks about it.
So... they completely jumped over the rape part of male polygamy in the Quran, and instead decided to focus on men being able to impregnate multiple women at once. This is so incredibly odd that they cannot see the irony in their own words.
Jubilee cut that part out, the whole entire recording was 3 hours but their agenda seemed like something else. If u want to know how i know this it was established in the 3 muslims channel where the guy who responded to the grape question is there.
@@mahimhasan4012 lmao, their agenda and then you point to the Muslim side responding to it. They're already morally corrupt listening to such an outdated book written by men to control simpletons.
Taquiyya
The quoran is disgusting
@@HillbillyYEEHAA babes polygamy was there bc men were dying in war. And you are not allowed to rape anyone
The statement that "first i ask myself why i am questioning the things which is already written". That is a such dangerous statement that is root of all problems. When people stop questioning what is ethically, morally and scientifically wrong things. It becomes a very dangerous threat to society. Peole just belief what is written in a certain text even in 21st century without questioning its relevency in todays society is very upsetting.
"Do you believe hijab is oppressive to women?" Well, women in Iran are going to jail if they refuse to wear it, so yes.
Iran attacks Azerbaijan. It is forbidden for muslim countries to attack each other.
Omg then how is Iran muslim? By your logic Iran defines the whole Islam. NO AND NO! Iran does things that go out of Islamic rules like womens choice of wearing whatever they want to. Yall be hating Islam for Iran and Afghanistan while they be the only cruel countries. Go talk about France? They force women to dress revealingly. Go talk about North Korea and educate yourself. Culture and religions are different
the hijab itself isnt oppressive its how these countries and radical groups are abusing islam and its rights. a lot of the points brought up about the hijab as oppression especially by janet were more in a cultural context rather than religious
49 muslim countries and you name ONE that has hijab by force, and then insult Islam for it.....
This political outrage and problems with oppressive women and cultures doesn’t have anything to do with Islam. Islam says that hijab is mandatory. However no one should force you, no one can. The men who are forcing women to wear hijab in Iran are doing haram and this isn’t the women’s fault. This is all the governments doing not the religion.
Well That's just in Iran