You can have a productive discussion with people that have different opinions, but you cannot have a productive discussion with people who believe in a different set of facts.
But they aren’t discussing facts, they are discussing beliefs. Even if they were discussing differing sets of facts it can still lead to a productive debate. People have debates all the time on different sets of facts, such as democrats and republicans. They both go off of different facts which support their viewpoints, although yes subjective opinions intertwine with their view points, but at the end of the day being bias is inherently apart of being human.
Whether a debate revolves around opinions or differing facts it is very much possible to have a productive debate either way, people have debates like this all the time lol….
@@NoKiniorInHybrydy ik coming out isnt easiest for everyone. but i will say being yourself makes life so much easier. the only way to find your real people is to be yourself, and those people will love you no matter what. the worlds gonna hate. there are going to be homophobes & bullies. but being yourself you will find the few people in this world that truly matter.
I am SO GLAD they had an intersex person be part of this conversation. We desperately need to give intersex people a seat at the table with things like this, I feel like I never see intersex people having a chance to express themselves and talk about their experience
@@WEGEEKZBOI actually it's much more common than you think, about 1 in 100 people born have some sort of defect affecting their chromosomes or reproductive systems.
As an intersex and aroace person, barely anybody talks about either of those things when talking about lgbt topics. I’m glad to see something at least mentioned
@@ILoveCats69875 if gay sex really cause earthquake, a country should be proud of it, they will be the world's deadliest weapon. Just give them a mission, vacation to the enemy nation, and have the WILDEST sex ever happen in human history at the target location.
I loved how Gilbert spoke up for Abigail IMMEDIATELY. he didn’t let that slide for even one second and i respect that so much and he came with his facts i loved that
Thank you so much!! I have been bullied with the Bible before I learned it inside and out for myself. I wasn’t going to allow someone else to be abused.
Abigail shouldn’t of even been there, intersex shouldn’t even be apart of the LGB community and neither should trans because one should never mix biology and sexuality that is what’s created so much craziness within the community for starters.
I do feel like it had to be a religious conversation but it didn't have to be a mono religious conversation. Christianity isn't the only religion that forbids same sex behaviours and it would have been nice to see them represented.
She said “heavens gates are wide” however she contradicts scripture “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
It’s called arrogance I think. Or make believe. Imposter syndrome, affirmations. It has many words I guess, but you get it. You are not your profession, you are not your achievements, you are not who your friends or family see you as, you are not even who you think you are. It’s one of the main things of your early life, figuring that out. Who am I? And saying you have done so is arrogant or at the very least delusional.
I felt so heartbroken for Abigail because how dare rashad try to tell her that her LITERAL existence isn’t real?! She is literally sitting there telling you she was BORN intersex. Like wtf
Abigail has an XX chromosome with a defect. So she is female, with a defect. Just like any person who had a genetic defect. There is no person who is both XX and XY.
Not really transgenderism as we know it today and intersexuality are not the same and aren't related in any way so her experience really adds nothing to this conversation
It is insane how this debate turned into a Christian centered discussion instead of a LGBTQIA+ middle ground in the matter of the first 30 seconds. Props to Abigail for staying strong & still respecting every panelist while being disregarded for her identity.
Yeah, I really wish they'd make sure to have at least a few non-religious people. Abigail clearly being the only person not rooted in religion had her automatically backed into a corner.
I think it's hard to find people who are Anti-LGBT and it has nothing to do with religion And I think the only way for there to be common ground was to have religious lgbtq that way they could have a meeting point It would honestly be the only way those Anti-LGBTQ folk would be able to have a leg to stand on The moment they took Christianity out it would've been a total bashing and I'm pretty sure those anti-LGBTQ folk would've immediately felt disrepect and and attacked and then they would play victim and it would look bad overall
The conversation was about ex-gay and ex-lgbt versus LGBTQ and the explanation of being “ex” was because of their faith not on your own. So that is why it was surrounded by biblical statements.
Because it's what that community rebels against. They rebel against religion and how you are supposed to live. That's just not inclusive to Christianity. It's all religions that have say homosexuality is a sin
Yeah, because that’s the only reason people are against the LGBT+ community. Which is why including religious people from the LGBT+ community is perfect for this conversation.
@@rachelt4792I mean it’s not the only reason but definitely the primary one. Still if I was that girl I would’ve been like can we not make everything about Christianity because you can’t make everything about something that not everyone follows. There’s nothing confirmed about it so to make everything you do about it is kinda scary to be honest
I am so incredibly grateful to Abigail being so confident and open to bring her story to us the viewers. We hear so little about the lived realisties of intersex people, and I am grateful to learn more about it.
@@AbigailBeverlyHillzfor real, I know so little about the intersex community despite being LGBTQ myself! It was so cool to learn more from a group that’s so often brushed under the rug, thanks you for sharing with all of us!
Kind of odd casting as 7/8 people are christian so of course the majority of the conversation will be surrounded around religion. Feel bad for Abigail, but she has held her own throughout the entire debate. Would love to have her on again, her voice is very important.
These people are not blindly casted. She probably put forward that she has experienced a religious lifestyle before. She went to church and went to a catholic school lol
Abigail was a much-needed voice on this panel. Very frustrating watching people question the validity of her lived reality to her face, but I hope those who need to hear voices like hers can through this video.
she doesn't belong on this panel at all, since it's not about intersex people who have a different set of chromosomes. VERY different from homosexuality entirely.
As a representative for intersex and trans people. The I in LGBTQIA+ stands for intersex. I’m done engaging in this conversation. We love you Abigail!!
@@TinaMay-rr6xi He's also basically admitting that you can choose to not act on Heterosexuality, but nobody wants to talk about that because Heterosexuality is the " Norm" and you can't discriminate against the " Norm"
@ville__acting on it is a choice yes, but being gay isn't and that's the point. These people are forcing themselves to not be gay and telling other people that they should be like them 2.
I tried to do conversion therapy on myself for 10 years because I wasn't ready to come to terms with my sexuality. It honestly messed me up more than I thought it ever could. This year, I have finally come out to myself as a Lesbian and I'm actually really excited for the future now. I'm looking forward to dating people I actually want to date for a change.
Well they keep adding letters who knows? I mean a few decades ago we didn't even know you don't have to be male or female in a few more years you may not have to be human
I'm genuinely shocked about how many ex-lgbt consistently use their religion as their only talking point. It's literally completely irrelevant if you don't follow christianity. I'm from the UK and idk whether it's a cultural difference but I feel like religion is never brought up this much surrounding political or social debates. America seems like an alternate universe to me
@@Dakyta252 They are in the cult christianity and islam are both death cults as are all monotheistic religions and organized religions who require blind believe in fantasy fairytales that have zero facts to back them up and hate critical thinking and any deviation from their cult rhetoric.
Okay so what I’m really finding unfortunate is that all ‘ex-LGBTQIA+’ argue from a religious standpoint. In this case I don’t know why there was a Middle Ground episode when there obviously won’t be a middle ground because of different moral standpoints.
@@tgr5312 That’s not what I’m arguing. Maybe read again. But I’m arguing is that this debate is completely useless because people won’t find middle ground because of arguing solely from their moral standpoints.
I also think the notion that being gay occurs naturally is wrong. The only animals that do it with the same sex arent exclusively doing it with same sex and they are typically species with high sex drives like dolphins sheep beetles etc. its not naturally occurring it never was. Thats like saying Humans came up with the term homosexual because they were homo erectus. To answer your comment it seems like the only way out of the gay ideology is to adopt a more omnipotent one. Like belief in a higher power than yourself.
A gay person simply existing being the cause of earthquakes and global pandemics is so outlandishly hilarious that only a religious person could come up with.
@@YousufS16I’m wondering who ever claimed something came from nothing. Also wondering why you think a magical papa just decided to create the world for no reason. Why couldn’t it be a magical all knowing giant rat?
But if he has same sex attraction but chooses to be with the opposite sex, I suppose in his mind it is a choice. Maybe I missed it but nobody asked the ex's if they were attracted to the opposite sex.
Who? The one who felt the holy spirit most while committing sin hated by the holy spirit? She's not even a Christian since her statement contradicts the Bible lol it makes her the least credible in the group.
@@KeilyHD lmao no. Her idea of Christianity is fabricated in her own head, something the Bible clearly says not to do (2 Timothy 4:3, deut. 4:2 and jeremiah 17:9). She literally said “prove me wrong about christianity without using the Bible” 32:56 how is this cooking? It’s stupidity.
Abigail is so amazing, the way that she shared her story so openly in order to help others feel accepted and bring awareness to the lives of intersex people.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728shes very ill-mannered and doesnt have empathy for ex-lgbtq people. She cant agree on anything they say when mentioning the bible unless the lgbtq people do, yet she doesnt believe in the bible
You either have XX or XY. Abigail has XX with defect somewhere in her gene code. So she is a female with a defect. Same as a person who genetically cannot grow hair. It does not make them an egyptian cat lol
I am sure you could have found people who questionned their sexuality and just realised they were straight and not just people who are choosing not to be gay for religious reasons. The discussion and their experience of the lgbtq+ community could have been very interesting. The fact that every question led to reciting scriptures was (in my opinion) not the entire point you could (and should) have made
I do agree that there are cases that you laid out that could be attributed to the exLGBT group, and it would've been nice to see one. Having said that you need to keep in mind that for these ex individuals they follow historic Christianity, which means they hold the Bible as authoritative for their lives (what that entails would be getting into a different discussion) so will use scripture to make their point for their worldview.
I haven't watched it but the comment section telling me what happened doesn't surprised me. Religion has been the the main basis for anti-LGB (to a lesser degree T) views for centuries.
Abigail if you read this… you’re a superstar and have the patience of a saint. I’m glad intersex people finally have some representation. We keep hearing intersex thrown around, but it’s nice to see somebody out there who’s actually intersex talking about it with such openness x
She literally rolls her eyes at most times when everyone else is speaking, not very respectful, so if you call that patience? We are screwed but you do you
@@lochlanmoore6417Yes it is patience, if she wasn't she would be screaming and getting mad. Those people were literally denying her existence as an intersex person, how did you want her to react?
@@VNuxionI don’t think anyone denied her existence… they definitely acknowledged her and even sympathized with her. Personally I just don’t think think this debate was for her. It was about ex-gay and gay.
@@vanessacintron9716 It was LITERALLY said that intersex people didn't exist and it's very clear, if you didn't notice, watch again. AND The debate was LGBT vs FORMER LGBT. It wasn't just about gays.
@@lochlanmoore6417they were literally denying her EXISTENCE and calling her demonic! That absolutely warrants bad reaction, and rolling her eyes was such a light reaction compared to what would have happened if the statement was flipped, like if they had called the Christians demonic for their beliefs they would have blown up in their faces
the way that the ex-lgbtqia+ people are only quoting the bible and the lgbtqia+ people are discussing the questions that are asked. told me everything i needed to know.
because this topic is about morality and there isn’t a better map for morality than the bible. there were questions involving heaven so i think it was totally appropriate to involve the bible
@michaeljohndadd545 The truth of what? That organised religion has become a rich and evil tax free haven of an excuse to preach hate under the guise of salvation, while also committing most of the sins they claim to be against and controlling their brainwashed masses? That truth?
As a Christian, I did find this very interesting. I understand why people are irritated it basically became a theological discussion though, I wasn’t expecting that at all. Also telling Abigail “I don’t see intersex” was uncalled for, and definitely not Christ-like.
@@sailorcinnamoroll firstly by intersex you mean a third category of gender, then you use the word "she" to described the individual, "she" as in female. Secondly, a male puberty and male phenotype doesn't mean anything when talking about an individual's chromosomes. Again, she is a female with abnormalities.
ngl, as a straight religious person (muslim), this was still traumatizing, like bro literally looked at her and announced that he doesn't believe in intersex people.
@@ParisPanteli-et1uqcuz that's the only place that really promotes this anti-queer rhetoric. I know I personally wouldn't have become a homophobe had it not been for the religion
@@historysyourbestfriend5500 One thing to look out for is the fruits of the desire. Evaluate yourself when you abstain. Thinking about it while not acting on it, is not abstaining. That's a tough one to learn.
@@michaelplauche9901lgbtq is something you cannot change…😭😭😭 they can believe they’re changed if they’d like, but they’re still gay and they need to accept that and understand it’s okay.
Would've been great to see even one person who had a reason besides highly conservative religion for not identifying as LGBTQ+ anymore, like just a shift in their sexuality and how they connect with it for literally any other reason. I've had several experiences with changes in my sexuality and they've had nothing to do with religion whatsoever. The questions are mostly interesting ones though, and as someone with a mix of fairly liberal and slightly more conservative views on LGBTQ+ issues, I'd like to have seen more debate from a non-religious standpoint.
@@spawnof THIS!! Me too, people change sometimes over a long period of time. I use to experience sexuality often but now for a few years since I grew up with others disliking me, I am asexual.
To the guy with a baby on the way: As a parent you MUST be prepared to love your child NO MATTER WHAT. If you cant love every part of your child you should not have them
If both parents are anti-lgbtq, which they most likely are, then they will teach their child what they believe. Therefore, the child will believe what the parents believe. The blond woman’s children are pro lgbt because she’s pro lgbt and that’s what she taught them at early age.
I read a comment Gilbert made in the comment section that said ex-gays are mainly religious because it is based in religion and it’s not really a secular concept. Im surprised by that though and find it hard to believe. You’re telling me that there isn’t someone who was like I’m ex-gay cuz I wanted kids and someone to have the kids with and to raise them with ???
The enemy will always tempt you, it doesn't mean that I desire or want to do that thing he's tempting me with. I am an ex smoker, and I absolutely do not want to start up again whatsoever, but when I'm tempted it just means that past experience gets triggered and only when I accept and go smoke again will that desire truly come back. Our enemy is always on the proul waiting on people to devour. That happens through temptations..
@MissEzekiel word salad. You are deluding yourself. Yes, you are tempted to smoke because you *desire* it in some way, even occasionally. Heterosexual people neither desire nor are tempted by same sex romance. Thus, it is a lie for him to say that he is desire free if he is also tempted still. Just call it what it is - an avoidance or repression of whatever you have deemed to not partake in.
This was painful to listen to. In any religion, if it makes you see people as evil just because of who they love, I pity them. There needs to be much more love in the world. Makes me so sad
Gilbert was my favourite person in this conversation. You can feel the love radiating off of him. He was kind, informed about the topics he spoke about and spoke with grace. I wish him all the best
All things aside, the dynamic between the person in the red-clay dress and the blue-jacket, black shirt guy was unmatched I was smiling the whole time lol
Truth is.... You're attracted to. Whomever you're attracted to. You will make the choice on how to live your life and who you want to be in a relationship with. But, that doesn't mean, You're not gay anymore. I've known men that watch straight adult videos. Not to see the women. They really want to see the men.
Isn't that invalidating someone's experience? Even if you want to argue that we are born straight or gay - which I don't think is true but I digress - if you are actively not following that lifestyle anymore, then you no longer that thing. If someone is gay and they stopped doing it, they are no longer gay, they would be ex-gay - this would be true even if you wanted to say they were born homosexual.
@@Machodave2020 I agree with you.. the issue is that if you say you agree that one can stop being gay, then that no longer gives you an excuse to say to yourself or others “they cannot decide to not be gay”. The idea that nobody can actually never ever be rid of their homosexual desires is itself just another belief that cannot be proven. Out of one side of the mouth comes the phase “you must believe in my lived experience and give me the benefit of the doubt” and out of the other side of the mouth it says “I do not believe in your lived experience if it does not validate my beliefs”. - some say they are no longer gay or have homosexual desires.. i think that’s fine, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt… I’m not sure why it’s so hard for others to do the same.
@@Machodave2020One I think it's important to remember the definition of gay is just attraction to the same sex so technically by definition they still are gay. And I mean some people think they're gay and then they come out straight not because of religion. You know figuring out who you are is a journey in and of itself I think a lot of these people are just repressed but there are genuinely some people who were confused and thought they were gay and came out not but that also doesn't mean that the Lord fixed you.
if you were to extract religion from this topic, what could they even argue about? their whole argument is based in guilt and i hope they all accept themselves and be happy one day
@@alexsaltertv it wasn’t based on the Bible, though. I consider myself a well-read Christian and the ex-gays were using their own delusion. Meanwhile, they’re are at least 2 Christians gays on the panel that knew what they were talking about, regarding the Bible.
@@NoName-gy6qr their delusions stem from their religious beliefs and what they deem acceptable vs unacceptable...which again is based on the Bible. They had no arguments that pointed to why being lgbtq was wrong aside from religion.
Abigail's facial expressions this whole episode have been absolutely hilarious, I love her addition to this video. I hate that her existence was questioned, but she is great.
I hate that her existence was questioned by one of them too however, she thought too much with her emotions and there was not much logic to her thinking.
@@hannahchapman7585 I guess I’m better with that stuff, it doesn’t matter how triggered or hurt I am, I will never act out on my emotions. I can seperate them quite easily.
@@nate2759you consider facial expressions to be "acting out"? If she reacted violently, or insulted people sure I could see what you're saying. But at most there was an eye roll. None of what she said was emotional.
@@nate2759yeah because ur intersex ? You can’t say anything bc your not in her her shoes? Lol why don’t you go live a day in her shoes then tell me you wouldn’t be offended 😂
It’s possible, but a lot of ex-lgbtq in general have religious reasons or healing journey reasons 🤷🏾♀️ it’s not an issue to talk about it. It’s not like they’re forcing them to do something they don’t want to do. They are just sharing THEIR experiences. ❤
@@Mac-ff3llI don't think that's true. You can be ex-gay due to societies' pressures and other environmental factors. Being gay was a crime in the Soviet Union even though the Soviet Union encouraged atheism for a great majority of its population.
I had hoped this discussion wasn't so focused on Christianity. I wanted to know whether some people just stopped being gay. I think homosexuality is still so poorly understood. I am gay, and I am lately been wondering whether homosexuality can have different causes, for example. I believe I was born gay, but I wonder whether this is the case for everyone, for example, or whether homosexuality can be caused by trauma or hormonal changes as well. You know, sometimes you can have the same symptoms but different causes. I, for example, think that my homosexuality has something to do with my brain being very feminine. I guess I am thinking like a women a lot, but I have no gender dysphoria. I liken it to something like autism or ADHD; I am autistic, btw, where the brain has not developed as it should. But maybe that's not the case with all gay men.
Scientifically I don't think there is really a chance to stop being gay. Humans can be heterosexual or homosexual, it's just normal. If you like both than you are bi
@@silvervixen007I agree with you. The problem is people still think that being anything other than cishet is a choice. I'm bi, I've known since I was 6, I had the biggest crush on Jasmine, I never heard of gay or lesbian or anything. Just my brain knew another girl was cute. If I could choose lord knows I'd be lesbian 😂. If trans people could choose they wouldn't go through the bullying and threats and homelessness and family disowning them etc.
Just to add, I think (so who knows) it's part of us, not something that one day appears at age 54 we start liking someone we didn't before, no. It's like saying being black is a choice or your eyeball color, it's just who you are. (again, my opinion). I do think people learn more about themselves with time which is sometimes why someone realizes they are (not became) gay at 40+.
It was not in the same context. "I don't see skin colour" means I treat you the same as white, black, hispanic person. "I don't see intersex" in that context ment he don't acknowledge her being intersex, because he believes there are only men and women. Which is the complete opposite of "I don't see skin colour"
@@SIAN_1 I don’t see skin color seems like an ok statement but it’s subtly racist. It’s diminishing the fact that their skin color IS different. It reminds me of the way he’s diminishing her gender because he doesn’t believe in intersex. Doesn’t change the fact that she physically is.
@@kickroxanne you have to look at the underlying commonalities. If you think about it, definitely is the same lmfao. Stating you don’t see a certain characteristic of a person because of your beliefs is just weird and nobody wants to hear it.
I really hate how something that is supposed to bring joy and understanding in people's life often causes them to interpret it in a way that leads them to open prejudices and self hate.
Nothing in your comment was true. Religion is a guide on how to live your life, there are always going to be things you’re to do and not do.. it’s not there to validate all of your choices, that’s where woke ideology goes wrong, it only leans one way towards hedonism and away from self control.
It's not self hate.. it's taking control of yourself. When you don't have self control, you are a slave... It's self defeating. One thing that does this self slavery the most often is sex... The most desirable sex is with someone who actually knows how you are feeling in pleasure... Men and women can't know what it feels like for the other, this means that the desire of that pleasure is inherently an attraction to a same sex pleasure. Feeding that desire allows it to control you. It's not self hate, it's simply finding the truth...
They're not saying being gay itself causes natural disasters and other things, but sin does. Look what happened after the Olympics. A whole power outage.
@@sobeliever1638 it’s funny people like you “well exceptions” are the type to use “well these people are only 1% of population” and think because that percentage has “1” it’s insignificant when percentages represent amounts, that 1% can represent 100 MILLION people and in fact, 1.60% of people are intersex, that percentage represents around 100 million people. That is literally an amount of people a large whole country.
@@sobeliever1638the whole science of biology is the so called science of exemptions so dont come here pointing at and acting like u know what you are talking about since you dont even own a mere knowledge of biochemistry. Coming from a BioChem Major, please educate yourself before you speak hatred. Biology is way WAY more complex than what you may think or have thought. Goodnight and also 1% of the world isnt a very small percentage if u think that its equal to about 80 million people.
I feel like this videoo needs to be redone with a more diverse cast. I went here expecting conversations about the gay comunity in general, not conversations about what the gay comunity is/means to a christian or to the church and how gay is a sin and bla bla bla.... This felt like Bible Study
After watching Gilbert's video where the LGBTQ+ team discuss this video it feels like a huge let down from the Jubilee and Middle Ground team as it seemed like the other side couldn't express their opinions as much and the show unfortunately went to the "ex-LGBTQ+" side.. Also something about Rashad is soooo sus. The way he was being hateful to Abigail and attacking her for no reason, Gilbert made a great point in his video that he was attacking HER personally, not her beliefs. The fact he went from gay to married to a woman within 4 months and is now expecting a child but still has 'urges'.. Marrying a woman won't "fix" you or stop you being gay
Yes rashad is the odd one out in a more disturbing way. The other christians are much closer to understanding, i fear rashad’s identity and marriage is going to crash and burn in some years.
it's impressive to see how much energy and focus is spent on distilling "the truth" from one single book. this made sense at time when knowledge was almost non existant. Religous or not, it doesn't make any sense in this day and age to not question every piece of information and seek to understanding form multiple sources/perspectives., except if one's is looking to cultivate ignorance per say.
I think this video should be done again. Same prompt, different set of people. Having so many religious people on the panel makes this a religious discussion when I’m moreso interested in the conversation relying less on religion. I guess it’s hard to do this given many of the anti-lgbt people are religious, but there are definitely people out there who take a biological and scientific approach to homophobia
But religion can play a very big part in this specific conversation. Unless there is a very specific reasoning and choice made then why would people claim the ex label? At one point they were and then a moment happened in their lives where they chose to no longer be for a reason and I think for many people that is a religion
@@user-ks7yk1hv9q but when panelists are talking about demons and how homosexuality causes earthquakes... it's not a productive conversation, they're in an alternate reality.
Also if it’s going to center on religion - why only christianity and no other religion? Like at least one other? I get it’s hard to represent such big populations of people in a tiny group like this but this was such a one one sided conversation
@@user-ks7yk1hv9qwithout religion the ex-lgbtq people have no leg to stand on, religion is not real it is delusion. You can't make an argument based soley on delusion and self hatred, you make arguements with empirical facts
I appreciate your empathetic observation. Honestly, it's true. He's a new Christian, husband and soon-to-be father and he's very young. I don't think he should've been on this panel. I think he'll regret it in years to come. I'm not convinced by his "transformation." It's way too new for him to come out swinging this hard especially when his experience is closer to the current LGBT than the ex-LGBT. We should've seen way more compassion from him to the current LGBT.
I feel really sorry for his wife. It's obvious that he is not really comfortable with his new found situation. He is repressing so much and so hard. It is bound to come out in unhealthy ways. It will either come out as cheating, leaving his wife, or (what is most worrying to me) he will take out his frustrations on his wife and kids.
@@uscitizen3252 That's just bad of you to assume things that hasnt happened and arent true. That's why you are dishonest and its bad for society what you are doing.
It's not really "religion," it's "Christianity." They didn't introduce Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion. They mentioned Baptist and Catholic. And Candace seems to be living under her own set of beliefs she's calling Christianity and it's not.
And that's because a person can be gay and still be a Christian at the same time, but they would also be a cafeteria Christian ie: A cherry picking bible believer who is gay. I am an Atheist and a secular humanist.
as a non-religious person, i don’t understand how you can simultaneously say you love and respect someone while believing that they’ve done something that warrants being tortured for eternity.
You can have a friend that you believe has done something wrong, they believe that should get the consequences for their actions. But you do respect them as a person, you do care about them but you don’t support that one aspect of a person. A lot of time I have friends who have parts of their personality I don’t like but that doesn’t mean I hate them as a person.
That's God's standards not our human fallen standards. He designed our bodies to connect to opposite gender to reproduce. Anything outside of that isn't his design but corruption including straight multiple partners BTW.
As an agnostic person i feel like religion was the center point of this whole conversation. “Can you stop being gay” has nothing to do with religion imo.
Well clearly babe lmao of you aren’t religious this video wasn’t for you …? If you’re not religious what would be your reason to want to “stop being gay”..?
@@TheGoatedOneHo I'm not religious, but I feel that this video was actually important and religion definitely has a place in the conversation. To answer your question, I'd say that gay shaming is more of a societal thing than a religious thing. Societal pressure to want to conform with your peers or the stereotypical straight couple is very strong, especially when there isn't a queer community in certain places, and especially when those queer spaces are often condemned or hated on. In schools, in church, in countries with laws against it, etc. There is a lot of hate for gay people online and throughout history, so there is a lot more than religion that goes behind wanting to not be gay.
completely agree!!!! as one commenter said this video was mostly about anti-lgbtq christians and lgbtq-christians in which religion should never be the all encompassing focal point when discussing a very serious topic. Christianity is just ONE religion out of thousands and its insane to put this extreme weight and importance onto something that is simply just spiritual faith (not scientific or sociological) when not all people are even religious in the first place. our laws and morality should never be completely dictated by a book, and i think it's honestly sad that those ex-lgbtq people are so lost in figuring out who they truly are that they have to be explicitly told what to feel or do; they are struggling with their identity and i feel the reason why they latch on to the bible like that is because they don't understand themselves and don't have self respect as an individual. they have no confidence and have to be guided by a separate entity to feel like they have worth. that's not to say that christian lgbtq people dont have confidence, like candice she is very confident in herself and her spirituality so she doesnt feel the need to get approval or guidance from a book; she understands herself and respects herself without needing to follow every command in the bible to find self-worth. it's true that religion can be part of one's lifestyle, but to put that much emphasis on it like how those ex-lgbtq people did without being able to have anything meaningful to contribute to the discussion that isnt religious like that is sad. completely REEKS of insecurity and internalized homophobia.
I found the heavy emphasis on religion incredibly offensive. I believe religion is nothing more than fantasies and I saw nobody on that panel who was explicitly atheist who engaged in and talked about that POV.
Unreleased prompt only on Patreon: bit.ly/3QNhD5F “A healthy family requires a male and female role model.”
☪✝✡ > 🏳🌈⚛
Families need parents. Does not matter what gender they are. If you think otherwise, then you don't belong in modern society.
ban chastity castration please 🥺🥺🥺
kid yall are in delusion and the sience symbol is way bigger than your rapist gods and prophets@@YousufS16
Why was everything framed from christianity? Bizarre
There is so much therapy needed here it’s not even funny
I swear
Therapy? Is there something "more" than therapy? These truly need even more than that...
yeppp
@@jordenflementJesus😂
@@Dontrollingwhy the laughing emoji?
You can have a productive discussion with people that have different opinions, but you cannot have a productive discussion with people who believe in a different set of facts.
so true omg you put that concept into words so well 😭
But they aren’t discussing facts, they are discussing beliefs. Even if they were discussing differing sets of facts it can still lead to a productive debate. People have debates all the time on different sets of facts, such as democrats and republicans. They both go off of different facts which support their viewpoints, although yes subjective opinions intertwine with their view points, but at the end of the day being bias is inherently apart of being human.
THIS!!
@@cherrysoda2219 💀
Whether a debate revolves around opinions or differing facts it is very much possible to have a productive debate either way, people have debates like this all the time lol….
saying you don’t believe in intersex people to an intersex person is craaazy
It‘s a genetic defect not the norm. Most people have 10 fingers, very few have 11. But to say that humans have 10 or 11 fingers is not correct
@@Dysgenic_yeah but humans can have 11 or 12 fingers and be intersex and there's nothing wrong with that.
@@Dysgenic_So? Something being rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@@CrustyBroBugs There is. It is a sign of developmental instability affecting the whole genome, most likely also the brain.
@@Dysgenic_ Certain eye colors are rare, does that make peopel with that eye color, not exist?
you can be gay and act like youre not gay, or you can be gay and embrace it. its never gonna change the fact that youre gay
FACTS
any advice for someone who wants to act like they are not gay...?
@@NoKiniorInHybrydy ik coming out isnt easiest for everyone. but i will say being yourself makes life so much easier. the only way to find your real people is to be yourself, and those people will love you no matter what. the worlds gonna hate. there are going to be homophobes & bullies. but being yourself you will find the few people in this world that truly matter.
"As I sip My Wine across the table"
@@NoKiniorInHybrydy js dont date the same gender homie thats all to it
I wish jubilee would do cat people vs. dog people. I think they think it isn’t serious enough but I think it would be their most popular video
Agreed lol
Yess
❤
I volunteer as a cat person lol
omg i would love that
I am SO GLAD they had an intersex person be part of this conversation. We desperately need to give intersex people a seat at the table with things like this, I feel like I never see intersex people having a chance to express themselves and talk about their experience
I think we barely see them in these conversations because they are so few and in between. They're like an anomaly within an anomaly.
Agreed! The person in orange is amazing!
@@WEGEEKZBOI actually it's much more common than you think, about 1 in 100 people born have some sort of defect affecting their chromosomes or reproductive systems.
As an intersex and aroace person, barely anybody talks about either of those things when talking about lgbt topics. I’m glad to see something at least mentioned
@@WEGEEKZBOI Intersex people are about as many as red hair. So its much more common than what we usually think
Jubilee is one of the only shows that make me genuinely start tweaking
It is midnight here and I thought you say "Jubilee is one of the only shows that make me genuinely start twerking" 😭😭😭
Fr bro some of these ppls beliefs are sooo out there, like how pride festivals start earthquakes 😭
@@ILoveCats69875 if gay sex really cause earthquake, a country should be proud of it, they will be the world's deadliest weapon. Just give them a mission, vacation to the enemy nation, and have the WILDEST sex ever happen in human history at the target location.
No fr bruh 😭
@@ILoveCats69875 this just goes to show you how lost ppl are
“ what gives you that authority to label yourself as gay?”… “erm, the definition of the word”!! Iconic 👏🏼
But who made up the definition?
@ humans the same as every other word including all the words in the bible
I loved how Gilbert spoke up for Abigail IMMEDIATELY. he didn’t let that slide for even one second and i respect that so much and he came with his facts i loved that
Thank you so much!! I have been bullied with the Bible before I learned it inside and out for myself. I wasn’t going to allow someone else to be abused.
Abigail shouldn’t of even been there, intersex shouldn’t even be apart of the LGB community and neither should trans because one should never mix biology and sexuality that is what’s created so much craziness within the community for starters.
@@GilbertGTVyou’re fuc*ing amazing. I would have done the same and I was like YESSSS FREAKING TELL THEM. The disrespect
@@Chocokitty57Thank you, love!! 🙏🏼❤️
@@GilbertGTV
you slay!
This turned out to be way more religious than I was ready for.
I feel like religion holds a big part in this specific conversation.
It’s one of the main reasons why there are “ex-LGBT” people. They “prayed the gay away” 😂
I do feel like it had to be a religious conversation but it didn't have to be a mono religious conversation. Christianity isn't the only religion that forbids same sex behaviours and it would have been nice to see them represented.
@@abyss1138 it's the only reason. youll never hear about gay people becoming straight through any other means. cuz it doesnt happen
I can’t stand it
When were yall gonna tell me I could control tectonic plates?
Ya'll wouldnt even understand
ikr bro im like an avatar now 😂
@@alyssa8658 ah yes, the 5 elements, Earth, water, fire, air, and gay
@@Galaxie_Shipbuilding i’ve always loved being a gay bender. i always knew my spirit animal was katara 💀
You have geokinesis ,become Cole the Earth Ninja
She said “heavens gates are wide” however she contradicts scripture
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Amen
“it’s not up to me to decide who i am” told me everything i needed to know
Sounds like you get yours from fox news @meowzr81
@UnfilteredLiberty huh? How did we get from a statement about self expression to a news network?
It’s called arrogance I think. Or make believe. Imposter syndrome, affirmations. It has many words I guess, but you get it. You are not your profession, you are not your achievements, you are not who your friends or family see you as, you are not even who you think you are. It’s one of the main things of your early life, figuring that out. Who am I? And saying you have done so is arrogant or at the very least delusional.
Self-worship is of the evil one.
Wait? So they are choosing to be homosexual?
It’s honestly so wild to say that the first place you ever truly felt accepted was at a pride event, to then immediately say they cause earthquakes 💀
A Gay earthquake sounds pretty cool...!!! They're measured by degrees of twerking...!!! (LOL) 🤣
That's normal in religious people. Some Christians perceive that as logical.
According to the Bible sin in general causes calamities. Just read revelation, we are in for a rude awakening, I’m guessing soon rather than later
@@ChemistTea I’m aware, it seems the opposite of logical to me. I would never want to live with that mindset. It sounds exhausting
The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
I felt so heartbroken for Abigail because how dare rashad try to tell her that her LITERAL existence isn’t real?! She is literally sitting there telling you she was BORN intersex. Like wtf
There's no such thing as intersex, she is a female, she has XX chromosomes, and she has genital deformities.
@@IAmTheTruth139ignorance is real
The word truth is overused and in this case incorrectly used.
YouAreTheLiar666@@IAmTheTruth139
Abigail has an XX chromosome with a defect. So she is female, with a defect. Just like any person who had a genetic defect. There is no person who is both XX and XY.
@@IAmTheTruth139 Clearly you're not educated whatsoever and posted some myopic comment.
I feel so bad for the only non-Christian person there. They were treating it like it was a Bible study.
I will pray for you ❤
@@jessicasanchez3023 what if he doesn't exist?
@@antonmyshenin9424dont waste your time on ifs
@@antonmyshenin9424 but he does and we believe that
@@notme-g8o you believe but it doesn't mean he exists
Abigail’s voice is SOOOO important in this conversation, it’s like she said we HARDLY ever hear from intersex ppl.
I can't tell if she was pro LGBT or not
@@yosaifgrossman2476 wdym
I would have liked to see an asexual person in this discussion
Not really transgenderism as we know it today and intersexuality are not the same and aren't related in any way so her experience really adds nothing to this conversation
but why is it important though? what important distinction does intersex bring to this discussion?
It is insane how this debate turned into a Christian centered discussion instead of a LGBTQIA+ middle ground in the matter of the first 30 seconds. Props to Abigail for staying strong & still respecting every panelist while being disregarded for her identity.
Yeah, I really wish they'd make sure to have at least a few non-religious people. Abigail clearly being the only person not rooted in religion had her automatically backed into a corner.
ikr.
I think it's hard to find people who are Anti-LGBT and it has nothing to do with religion
And I think the only way for there to be common ground was to have religious lgbtq that way they could have a meeting point
It would honestly be the only way those Anti-LGBTQ folk would be able to have a leg to stand on
The moment they took Christianity out it would've been a total bashing and I'm pretty sure those anti-LGBTQ folk would've immediately felt disrepect and and attacked and then they would play victim and it would look bad overall
The conversation was about ex-gay and ex-lgbt versus LGBTQ and the explanation of being “ex” was because of their faith not on your own. So that is why it was surrounded by biblical statements.
Because it's what that community rebels against. They rebel against religion and how you are supposed to live. That's just not inclusive to Christianity. It's all religions that have say homosexuality is a sin
Not me actively debating with them in my room😭😂
Omg same 😭
nah fr😭
Me too!
LOL ME TOO😂
Yes you and me too!!!😂
Gay sex causes earthquakes?? Did you ever consider asking your gay lover to be a bit gentler next time?
LMAOOOO
😂😂😭💀
Lol😂
LMFAO
This ended up being an hourlong Christian theological discussion. I feel badly for Abby as the only non-Christian panelist
It was ROUGH lmao
@@AbigailBeverlyHillzI would've had to say, can we stop making this about Christianity?! Lol
Yeah, because that’s the only reason people are against the LGBT+ community. Which is why including religious people from the LGBT+ community is perfect for this conversation.
wasnt that the point of the episode?
@@rachelt4792I mean it’s not the only reason but definitely the primary one. Still if I was that girl I would’ve been like can we not make everything about Christianity because you can’t make everything about something that not everyone follows. There’s nothing confirmed about it so to make everything you do about it is kinda scary to be honest
The "XX that is male" and the " no that's female" part got me LMAO 😅😅😅😅😅
SAMEEE like bro came in here not knowing the only fact I retained from freshman year biology 😭
me too bro 💀 and he sounded so confident about it too like it was some gotcha moment
Only males have the Y Chromosome, not females.
XY is male and XX is female
it's around 11:14 if anyone wants the timestamp btw
Telling Abigail that you disregard her existence is INSANE 😂
My bombastic side eye every time he spoke 😂
@@AbigailBeverlyHillz😅😅
@ville__ so your saying you like men but your choosing to like women?
@ville__she’s not even gay?……
@ville__ Lol we loved our choice...... waste your negative energy elsewhere🤦🏾♀🤦🏾♀🤦♀🤦♀
I'm actually so glad nobody stepped forward when it was about conversion therapy having positive outcomes. It's such a traumatizing experience.
I am so incredibly grateful to Abigail being so confident and open to bring her story to us the viewers. We hear so little about the lived realisties of intersex people, and I am grateful to learn more about it.
Thank you so much 🥺❤️
@@AbigailBeverlyHillz I love your drag, and I LOVED YOU ON THIS EPISODE. Thank you for speaking out.
@@AbigailBeverlyHillzfor real, I know so little about the intersex community despite being LGBTQ myself! It was so cool to learn more from a group that’s so often brushed under the rug, thanks you for sharing with all of us!
Idk, in the scope of this conversation idk how it was relevant. This was a very theocratic episode and her existence really wasnt called to question.
Thas the point of the video, to educate N learn abt different mfs💯
Kind of odd casting as 7/8 people are christian so of course the majority of the conversation will be surrounded around religion. Feel bad for Abigail, but she has held her own throughout the entire debate. Would love to have her on again, her voice is very important.
If you are talking about morality then religion will inevitably get involved.
Yes, would LOVE to see her more
@@alphauno6614It doesn’t need to be, and luckily the world is changing in that way.
These people are not blindly casted. She probably put forward that she has experienced a religious lifestyle before. She went to church and went to a catholic school lol
yeah, the whole convo is circular and goes nowhere
Jubilee always be coming up with the wildest of topics
☪✝✡ > 🏳🌈⚛
@ville__It's really not. These people are either closeted again or were never gay to begin with.
@ville__only if ur a bisexual
@@YousufS16 ew
@ville__ ew
The lady in brown is a whole vibe and I LOVE it!
She A mess
Abigail was a much-needed voice on this panel. Very frustrating watching people question the validity of her lived reality to her face, but I hope those who need to hear voices like hers can through this video.
+
she doesn't belong on this panel at all, since it's not about intersex people who have a different set of chromosomes. VERY different from homosexuality entirely.
Gay in the title is clearly being used as an umbrella term for the LGBTQ+ community, which Abigail is a member of and an important voice in.
Voice of what? She shouldn't be on the panel. She just there with a victim mentality
As a representative for intersex and trans people. The I in LGBTQIA+ stands for intersex. I’m done engaging in this conversation. We love you Abigail!!
“He’s given me strength to overcome my desires of falling into homosexuality again” so he’s basically admitting that you can’t chose your sexuality 😭
The way this is even up for debate..
It’s ALL up for debate
He is saying you can choose not to act on it
@@TinaMay-rr6xi He's also basically admitting that you can choose to not act on Heterosexuality, but nobody wants to talk about that because Heterosexuality is the " Norm" and you can't discriminate against the " Norm"
@ville__acting on it is a choice yes, but being gay isn't and that's the point. These people are forcing themselves to not be gay and telling other people that they should be like them 2.
We're 30 seconds in and we're talking about Gay earthquakes... this gon be gud...
Thought you were joking, not even gonna watch the vid💀💀
I was thrown for a loop with that intro 😭
I KNEW gays had super powers!!
He lost me because wtf is he talking about
@@rollitupmarsHe doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He even said “XX that is male” and someone had to correct him and say “no that’s female” 😂
I tried to do conversion therapy on myself for 10 years because I wasn't ready to come to terms with my sexuality. It honestly messed me up more than I thought it ever could.
This year, I have finally come out to myself as a Lesbian and I'm actually really excited for the future now. I'm looking forward to dating people I actually want to date for a change.
Congratulations!
@solenzara9101 Aw thank you! ❤️
Congrats :) wishing you the best
I would love a recheck of this group 5 years from now.
Me too. I don't think this is going to age well.
The crutches that people use to get by is interesting.
Frfr
this comment should be pinned haha
Absolutely! Would be especially interesting seeing how things pan out with Rashaad.
Seriously
Not my gay thoughts shifting the tectonic plates
Fr 💀
I laughed out loud hahaha
🤣🤣
😭😭😭 we are powerful what can i say
I'm crying 😂
ain’t no way he thought the “+” in LGBTQIA+ meant experimentation with animals??? 😭😭😭 yeoooo
These people think anything and it’s so harmful 😭
It does though
@@bree7969the strong opinion n u don’t know anything is crazy. We don’t claim anything n everything 🤦🏽 the hate for the lgbt is crazy asf
@@Jaee-kb7wj nobody hate yall as much as yall hate yall self’s how here being reckless on the name of liberation and freedom… is crazy!
Well they keep adding letters who knows? I mean a few decades ago we didn't even know you don't have to be male or female in a few more years you may not have to be human
Didn't expect these anti lgbtq people to be so blunt and honest, while at the same time keeping it so respectful. Powerful.
"i dont believe in intersex people"
the intersex person literally at his side: 🤨
Actually those are that person’s words. Is there proof that he/she is. Just. Cause you say you are doesn’t make it so.
@@his4252Why would they lie about that
@@his4252 uh oh someone needs to go back to science class
That is not what he said at all. He said that he didn't believe people could change genders. He wasn't denying that she was intersex.
@@his4252 girl wtf, its literally a condition that exists since forever. why would she lie about it???
I'm genuinely shocked about how many ex-lgbt consistently use their religion as their only talking point. It's literally completely irrelevant if you don't follow christianity. I'm from the UK and idk whether it's a cultural difference but I feel like religion is never brought up this much surrounding political or social debates. America seems like an alternate universe to me
They do be talking like in a cult somehow ngl
@@Dakyta252 They are in the cult christianity and islam are both death cults as are all monotheistic religions and organized religions who require blind believe in fantasy fairytales that have zero facts to back them up and hate critical thinking and any deviation from their cult rhetoric.
@@secularhumanistforever Yup. Couldn't have said it better.
@@schneedgod what did they say? I can't see their comment.
They do sound like thy are at peace with themselves tho compared to the average person ngl
"I don't see any intersex" setting next to an intersex person. 10/10
Helen Keller’s spirit possessed Rashad every time I spoke…because he became blind and deaf every time I spoke.
@@AbigailBeverlyHillz😂😂
@@AbigailBeverlyHillz🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
How do we really know? Because she said it? I am probably wrong but I think Abby is a transwoman cosplaying
@@AbigailBeverlyHillzyou are a hypocrite. You rolled your eyes and discredited anything he said religious.
Abigail be spitting STRAIGHT facts 💯💯💯
Okay so what I’m really finding unfortunate is that all ‘ex-LGBTQIA+’ argue from a religious standpoint. In this case I don’t know why there was a Middle Ground episode when there obviously won’t be a middle ground because of different moral standpoints.
Religion is their moral basis, if you dont like the fact that their morality is different then yours, its your problem, not theirs.
@@tgr5312 That’s not what I’m arguing. Maybe read again. But I’m arguing is that this debate is completely useless because people won’t find middle ground because of arguing solely from their moral standpoints.
Exactly, it leaves no room for going forward in a conversation
@@tgr5312Yes because at 24:45 they’re totally debating something
I also think the notion that being gay occurs naturally is wrong. The only animals that do it with the same sex arent exclusively doing it with same sex and they are typically species with high sex drives like dolphins sheep beetles etc. its not naturally occurring it never was. Thats like saying Humans came up with the term homosexual because they were homo erectus. To answer your comment it seems like the only way out of the gay ideology is to adopt a more omnipotent one. Like belief in a higher power than yourself.
Girl said she felt the Holy Spirit whilst kissing another girl!😂😂
Even for a non Christian that’s so wild.
She kept referrinv to her heart and how she felt. All I could think of is Jeremiah 17:9-10
It is wild, it's very clear she's never actually read the Bible.
Who are you to denounce anyone's spiritual revelation?
@@DerrickHistory Satan is that you?👀
@@desi1844 sure, or whatever ridiculous boogeyman you prefer.
A gay person simply existing being the cause of earthquakes and global pandemics is so outlandishly hilarious that only a religious person could come up with.
Not as hilarious as thinking something came from nothing
Not really I've heard a lot of liberals come up with way worse stuff. From magic rocks to star formations.
@@YousufS16I’m wondering who ever claimed something came from nothing. Also wondering why you think a magical papa just decided to create the world for no reason. Why couldn’t it be a magical all knowing giant rat?
@ville__How? Is being straight a choice?? Why would I chose to be LBGTQ+ with all of the hate and constant discrimination that we face as a community?
@@YousufS16bro could lose an argument against himself
the second Rashad said "sexuality is a choice.." I was pissed.
Like real. Scientists, both liberal and conservative say repeatedly THAT YOU CANT CHOOSE YOUR SEXUALITY
But if he has same sex attraction but chooses to be with the opposite sex, I suppose in his mind it is a choice.
Maybe I missed it but nobody asked the ex's if they were attracted to the opposite sex.
Abigail’s facial expressions throughout this are oddly synched with mine 😭
yep!!
I literally had to pause and laugh every time, because how she felt was 100% accurate.
seemed like she was on crack
that's so real
she was my fav omg i felt heard
LOVE this blonde therapist. Great at catching the disrespect and reflecting it back on people.
Lol yup she catches them micro aggressions like a seasoned activist.
yes, she’s calm and collected while still being spiritually inclined to talk about her experiences
Who? The one who felt the holy spirit most while committing sin hated by the holy spirit? She's not even a Christian since her statement contradicts the Bible lol it makes her the least credible in the group.
Had to pause the video bc she was COOKING them and I was NOT ready and I couldn't see it!
@@KeilyHD lmao no. Her idea of Christianity is fabricated in her own head, something the Bible clearly says not to do (2 Timothy 4:3, deut. 4:2 and jeremiah 17:9). She literally said “prove me wrong about christianity without using the Bible” 32:56 how is this cooking? It’s stupidity.
Abigail is so amazing, the way that she shared her story so openly in order to help others feel accepted and bring awareness to the lives of intersex people.
Yes!! ❤❤
She is very charming and charismatic as well as smart.
I hope the best for her!
most intersex people dont follow its agenda, they mostly follow gender critical thought
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728shes very ill-mannered and doesnt have empathy for ex-lgbtq people. She cant agree on anything they say when mentioning the bible unless the lgbtq people do, yet she doesnt believe in the bible
No such thing as “intersex”. It’s extremely rare and now EVERY trans person says they’re intersex. It’s not a thing.
I just couldn’t stop looking at Abby, she’s so beautiful!! BODY IS TEA
Gilbert spoke extremely well. His points were clear and his logic was airtight. I love this man's intelligence and his empathy!
Except for the part where he said that the Bible doesn’t say that homosexuality is a sin
He literally kept cutting everyone off and had such a sassy tone bc people don’t agree with him
@@darius4680 definitely true Gilbert was aggressive
Agreed, I love his intelligence and logic. He was extremely well-spoken and a great addition to the panel.
Are you joking? He has no idea how to have adult conversations. He lacks the ability to hear anyone other than himself.
Rashad is fighting his desires so hard, those thoughts are the forefront of his head, even the therapist called out his situation.
I thought the same exact thing!! He seems so unhappy and discontent.
@@mattburton9250 really? he seemed the most enlightened and intelligent out of the group. it takes strength to break free from the woke cult
@@RB-.- Enlightened and Intelligent? He didn’t listen to a single thing anyone else said. Seemed quite the opposite, brainwashed and closed-minded.
@mattburton9250 he definitely needs help, he's in denial
I genuinely feel so bad for him. His eyes are filled with despair
Gilbert calling Rashad out for denying Abigails intersexuality is the best for me. I appreciate him for that
He was just sooo dramatic. Like, bro, chill.
You either have XX or XY. Abigail has XX with defect somewhere in her gene code. So she is a female with a defect. Same as a person who genetically cannot grow hair. It does not make them an egyptian cat lol
@@jhedjoardumago7691Dude you literally described what intersex is (although badly) in that first part. Google is free, educate yourself
@@jhedjoardumago7691It’s insane how you perfectly explain what intersex is and why it’s real, but don’t understand it.
@@jhedjoardumago7691she was assigned male at birth it's the opposite of androgen insensitivity syndrome where a woman is born with XY Chromosomes.
The amount of denial and obliviousness in this video is crazy
The fact they hugged and said “it’s not personal” at the end is the WILDEST thing! It is clearly personal
No it's not? our battle isn't against flesh & blood but against spiritual matters, ideally nothing is personal
It’s really not. I can tell someone the truth no matter that truth & it not be personal
@@carraphillips20but it's not the truth though
@@benjaminmadrigalperez9010 that’s subjective
agreed
I am sure you could have found people who questionned their sexuality and just realised they were straight and not just people who are choosing not to be gay for religious reasons. The discussion and their experience of the lgbtq+ community could have been very interesting. The fact that every question led to reciting scriptures was (in my opinion) not the entire point you could (and should) have made
Literally when I saw on thumbnail " Ex-Gay " I laughed so hard
the “ex-gay” movement is a religious movement. You won’t find secular reasons for it. It’s a religious quackery, nothing more.
I do agree that there are cases that you laid out that could be attributed to the exLGBT group, and it would've been nice to see one. Having said that you need to keep in mind that for these ex individuals they follow historic Christianity, which means they hold the Bible as authoritative for their lives (what that entails would be getting into a different discussion) so will use scripture to make their point for their worldview.
I haven't watched it but the comment section telling me what happened doesn't surprised me. Religion has been the the main basis for anti-LGB (to a lesser degree T) views for centuries.
@@nassercabelo3330”ex-gay” is wiiiiild🤣💀💀💀
Abigail if you read this… you’re a superstar and have the patience of a saint. I’m glad intersex people finally have some representation. We keep hearing intersex thrown around, but it’s nice to see somebody out there who’s actually intersex talking about it with such openness x
She literally rolls her eyes at most times when everyone else is speaking, not very respectful, so if you call that patience? We are screwed but you do you
@@lochlanmoore6417Yes it is patience, if she wasn't she would be screaming and getting mad. Those people were literally denying her existence as an intersex person, how did you want her to react?
@@VNuxionI don’t think anyone denied her existence… they definitely acknowledged her and even sympathized with her. Personally I just don’t think think this debate was for her. It was about ex-gay and gay.
@@vanessacintron9716 It was LITERALLY said that intersex people didn't exist and it's very clear, if you didn't notice, watch again.
AND
The debate was LGBT vs FORMER LGBT. It wasn't just about gays.
@@lochlanmoore6417they were literally denying her EXISTENCE and calling her demonic! That absolutely warrants bad reaction, and rolling her eyes was such a light reaction compared to what would have happened if the statement was flipped, like if they had called the Christians demonic for their beliefs they would have blown up in their faces
Intersex is different than gay and transgender. Why is she there? Just because she didn't choose, it doesn't mean that others can't
.
the way that the ex-lgbtqia+ people are only quoting the bible and the lgbtqia+ people are discussing the questions that are asked. told me everything i needed to know.
Yea that the truth is in the Bible and feelings cause confusion 😂.. I got that same message 🎉
@@jsjourney3295best answer in these comments 🙏🙏
@@jsjourney3295 I have seen a lot more religious people denying truths like dinosaurs, the earth being round and vaccines working
@@jsjourney3295 that the Bible infects your brain and suppresses your freedom of speech and thought? YES
because this topic is about morality and there isn’t a better map for morality than the bible. there were questions involving heaven so i think it was totally appropriate to involve the bible
the nerve of him to refer to abigail as his friend after calling her demonic and denying her existence is crazzzzy
"Hate the sin love the sinner" is a bunch of patronising crap
@@theguywhoisaustralian1465 real
@@theguywhoisaustralian1465lol I would’ve said back “well this sinner doesn’t love you”
@@theguywhoisaustralian1465can't accept the truth?
@michaeljohndadd545 The truth of what? That organised religion has become a rich and evil tax free haven of an excuse to preach hate under the guise of salvation, while also committing most of the sins they claim to be against and controlling their brainwashed masses?
That truth?
Abigail was serving looks that made this whole thing bearable 😂
exactly only sane-minded person there imo
FRRR she ate
What a queen
As a Christian, I did find this very interesting. I understand why people are irritated it basically became a theological discussion though, I wasn’t expecting that at all.
Also telling Abigail “I don’t see intersex” was uncalled for, and definitely not Christ-like.
so proud of abigail. more intersex voices like hers need to be heard and platformed
There's no such thing as intersex, she is a female, she has XX chromosomes.
@@Spyros_SPfacts don’t care about your feelings honey, Intersex is a scientifically proven phenomenon. It’s ok to be wrong though
@@Spyros_SP and she was born with a male phenotype and went through male puberty. she's intersex
@@sailorcinnamoroll firstly by intersex you mean a third category of gender, then you use the word "she" to described the individual, "she" as in female. Secondly, a male puberty and male phenotype doesn't mean anything when talking about an individual's chromosomes. Again, she is a female with abnormalities.
@@sailorcinnamorollif you look up what she has it doesn’t line up.
ngl, as a straight religious person (muslim), this was still traumatizing, like bro literally looked at her and announced that he doesn't believe in intersex people.
literally???
ok but please tell me tho that i'm not the olnly that got mad that at they they used religion to justify their hate
@ParisPanteli-et1uq religion is technically hate. Not by text, but by act.
Christians love to hate. Not all of them, of course.
thats what be belives tho
@@ParisPanteli-et1uqcuz that's the only place that really promotes this anti-queer rhetoric.
I know I personally wouldn't have become a homophobe had it not been for the religion
All of the exLgbt admitted they still have the desire. They just dont act on it. Which means thier orientation did not change.
Are all desires natural. Should they be acted on?
@@oluwatoniodetayo3141what do you suppose is reason for why homosexuality shouldn’t be something a person can act on then?
Are you sure about that? 18:04
@@historysyourbestfriend5500
One thing to look out for is the fruits of the desire. Evaluate yourself when you abstain.
Thinking about it while not acting on it, is not abstaining. That's a tough one to learn.
@@oluwatoniodetayo3141 how does that answer my question…
Interesting how there aren't any ex-gays who aren't being gaslit by Christianity.
So they’re still gay, they just don’t act on it anymore. So they’re just celibate. How does that make them not gay anymore?
Exactly what I was thinking! They’re still gay!
You can change your feelings. That’s what lgbtq is, personal feelings. They will have Hetero marriages in the future and will be fulfilling god’s plan
@@michaelplauche9901lgbtq is something you cannot change…😭😭😭 they can believe they’re changed if they’d like, but they’re still gay and they need to accept that and understand it’s okay.
@@ashtonb7931 homosexuality isn’t genetics, it’s a feeling. You can change your feelings
@@ashtonb7931Right?!
Would've been great to see even one person who had a reason besides highly conservative religion for not identifying as LGBTQ+ anymore, like just a shift in their sexuality and how they connect with it for literally any other reason. I've had several experiences with changes in my sexuality and they've had nothing to do with religion whatsoever. The questions are mostly interesting ones though, and as someone with a mix of fairly liberal and slightly more conservative views on LGBTQ+ issues, I'd like to have seen more debate from a non-religious standpoint.
I think the whole point was to set off some fireworks. What are your reasons for your shift?
@@spawnof THIS!! Me too, people change sometimes over a long period of time. I use to experience sexuality often but now for a few years since I grew up with others disliking me, I am asexual.
Self control is repression is WILD
LGBTQ conversion is a highly christian thing most cases are Christian so we can't divorce the two.
Sure I could argue with science and biology why being gay is morally wrong.
All the 4 LGBTQIA+ people are so patient, articulate and empathetic. And they respect the other side but won't hesitate to defend their side!
Thank you for seeing us!! 🙏🏼❤️
I disagree personally, we see what we want to see. Disagreement doesn't men someone was impatient
@@tembelihlechifamba1790but were they actually impatient or irrational?
@@eeee8489 I believe Gilbert was impatient. He was shouty
Our bias sees differently. I see the others as impatiently
abigail breaking the 4th wall and giving those looks to the camera throughout the video is literally GAGGING ME i liveeee
the ex-lgbtq+ (which btw 💀💀💀) r literally so obtuse
This episode should be titled:
- '8 people talk about christianity' 💀
😂😂😂😂
hellelujah!
Ong , even the prompts were religious talking about “heaven” and such…They should‘be just made this an episode on LGBTQ & Christianity
7 people talk about Christianity and 1 Abigail sits there feeling really awkward (but still totally slays!)
7 people, actually.😂 Our Queen Abigail was not talking about Christianity ❤
To the guy with a baby on the way: As a parent you MUST be prepared to love your child NO MATTER WHAT. If you cant love every part of your child you should not have them
@@quinnkrause6489that’s very true 🤔
If both parents are anti-lgbtq, which they most likely are, then they will teach their child what they believe. Therefore, the child will believe what the parents believe. The blond woman’s children are pro lgbt because she’s pro lgbt and that’s what she taught them at early age.
I am sure he will love the baby, but the relations to the baby's mother are questionable. Poor woman.
And if he doesnt emotionally or physically abuse that child they wont be gay.
@@blacksabbathmatters ...... reported
Can we seriously have a conversation that isn't about "gay is wrong because religion"
frrr
I read a comment Gilbert made in the comment section that said ex-gays are mainly religious because it is based in religion and it’s not really a secular concept. Im surprised by that though and find it hard to believe. You’re telling me that there isn’t someone who was like I’m ex-gay cuz I wanted kids and someone to have the kids with and to raise them with ???
It is tiring to have religion the main subject
well that’s bcos there are no secular arguments against homosexuality
They literally cannot. How many atheist homophobes/ex lgbt do you know?…. Religion is literally the only argument against homosexuality.
"he took away my desires" 2.5 seconds later, "I'm still tempted" just really sums up ex-gay so perfectly.
The enemy will always tempt you, it doesn't mean that I desire or want to do that thing he's tempting me with. I am an ex smoker, and I absolutely do not want to start up again whatsoever, but when I'm tempted it just means that past experience gets triggered and only when I accept and go smoke again will that desire truly come back. Our enemy is always on the proul waiting on people to devour. That happens through temptations..
@MissEzekiel word salad. You are deluding yourself. Yes, you are tempted to smoke because you *desire* it in some way, even occasionally. Heterosexual people neither desire nor are tempted by same sex romance. Thus, it is a lie for him to say that he is desire free if he is also tempted still. Just call it what it is - an avoidance or repression of whatever you have deemed to not partake in.
This was painful to listen to. In any religion, if it makes you see people as evil just because of who they love, I pity them. There needs to be much more love in the world. Makes me so sad
❤
This!
Sinner
@@Bus7585religious fanatic
we don’t see people as evil…
we are all sinned. so it doesn’t put christians on a pedestal. its just some of us who are opinionated and overradical.
Gilbert was my favourite person in this conversation. You can feel the love radiating off of him. He was kind, informed about the topics he spoke about and spoke with grace. I wish him all the best
This just made my day! Thank you love!! Wish you the best too!! Aww! Seriously, this moved me!
Are yall gay?😂😂
@@Barrettprice5 Yes.
@@GilbertGTV i feel bad 4 u
@@Barrettprice5 No need for that. We are happy
"XX..that is male."
Bro failed science at school level
Still the message stands. Can't trip yourself
it was a question he didnt say that ut was he asked her "XX is male?" not "XX is male"
He confused the chromosome symbols things like that happens no biggie
@@kml7259 just like how he confused his biases with empirical evidence
@@thisisforvids seems to be you who is the bigot who won’t respect and tolerate different opinions and views.
All things aside, the dynamic between the person in the red-clay dress and the blue-jacket, black shirt guy was unmatched I was smiling the whole time lol
Truth is.... You're attracted to. Whomever you're attracted to. You will make the choice on how to live your life and who you want to be in a relationship with. But, that doesn't mean, You're not gay anymore. I've known men that watch straight adult videos. Not to see the women. They really want to see the men.
Then they gay💀
Isn't that invalidating someone's experience? Even if you want to argue that we are born straight or gay - which I don't think is true but I digress - if you are actively not following that lifestyle anymore, then you no longer that thing.
If someone is gay and they stopped doing it, they are no longer gay, they would be ex-gay - this would be true even if you wanted to say they were born homosexual.
@@Machodave2020 I agree with you.. the issue is that if you say you agree that one can stop being gay, then that no longer gives you an excuse to say to yourself or others “they cannot decide to not be gay”. The idea that nobody can actually never ever be rid of their homosexual desires is itself just another belief that cannot be proven. Out of one side of the mouth comes the phase “you must believe in my lived experience and give me the benefit of the doubt” and out of the other side of the mouth it says “I do not believe in your lived experience if it does not validate my beliefs”. - some say they are no longer gay or have homosexual desires.. i think that’s fine, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt… I’m not sure why it’s so hard for others to do the same.
@@benfaubion exactly, it's almost as if the radical liberals in the LGBTQ+ aren't as accepting as they say they are.
@@Machodave2020One I think it's important to remember the definition of gay is just attraction to the same sex so technically by definition they still are gay. And I mean some people think they're gay and then they come out straight not because of religion. You know figuring out who you are is a journey in and of itself I think a lot of these people are just repressed but there are genuinely some people who were confused and thought they were gay and came out not but that also doesn't mean that the Lord fixed you.
if you were to extract religion from this topic, what could they even argue about? their whole argument is based in guilt and i hope they all accept themselves and be happy one day
Exactly. We need this video with ex-lgbtq who are NOT religious because the entire basis of their arguments was the Bible.
@@alexsaltertv it wasn’t based on the Bible, though. I consider myself a well-read Christian and the ex-gays were using their own delusion.
Meanwhile, they’re are at least 2 Christians gays on the panel that knew what they were talking about, regarding the Bible.
Amen lol
@@NoName-gy6qr their delusions stem from their religious beliefs and what they deem acceptable vs unacceptable...which again is based on the Bible. They had no arguments that pointed to why being lgbtq was wrong aside from religion.
@@alexsaltertvare there even “ex lgbtq” that exist….I feel like they only exist merely because of religious reasons but hey!….who knows🤷♂️
Abigail's facial expressions this whole episode have been absolutely hilarious, I love her addition to this video. I hate that her existence was questioned, but she is great.
I hate that her existence was questioned by one of them too however, she thought too much with her emotions and there was not much logic to her thinking.
@@nate2759i would be emotional if people were doubting my existence but go off!
@@hannahchapman7585 I guess I’m better with that stuff, it doesn’t matter how triggered or hurt I am, I will never act out on my emotions. I can seperate them quite easily.
@@nate2759you consider facial expressions to be "acting out"? If she reacted violently, or insulted people sure I could see what you're saying. But at most there was an eye roll. None of what she said was emotional.
@@nate2759yeah because ur intersex ? You can’t say anything bc your not in her her shoes? Lol why don’t you go live a day in her shoes then tell me you wouldn’t be offended 😂
Why do they skip this part, 20:06 "A healthy family requires a male and female role model" , this is so unfair?
I thought I was crazy when that happened. They probably got into a fight honestly
It’s because it’s behind a paywall. It’s Patreon exclusive content >_
Would have loved a non religious conversation about this
You can only be an ex gay if you’re religious…
No?? I have an ex gay atheist friend
It’s possible, but a lot of ex-lgbtq in general have religious reasons or healing journey reasons 🤷🏾♀️ it’s not an issue to talk about it. It’s not like they’re forcing them to do something they don’t want to do. They are just sharing THEIR experiences. ❤
@@Mac-ff3llirrational. Likes change. Can happen.
@@Mac-ff3llI don't think that's true. You can be ex-gay due to societies' pressures and other environmental factors. Being gay was a crime in the Soviet Union even though the Soviet Union encouraged atheism for a great majority of its population.
I had hoped this discussion wasn't so focused on Christianity. I wanted to know whether some people just stopped being gay. I think homosexuality is still so poorly understood. I am gay, and I am lately been wondering whether homosexuality can have different causes, for example. I believe I was born gay, but I wonder whether this is the case for everyone, for example, or whether homosexuality can be caused by trauma or hormonal changes as well. You know, sometimes you can have the same symptoms but different causes. I, for example, think that my homosexuality has something to do with my brain being very feminine. I guess I am thinking like a women a lot, but I have no gender dysphoria. I liken it to something like autism or ADHD; I am autistic, btw, where the brain has not developed as it should. But maybe that's not the case with all gay men.
There's no such thing as a feminine brain
Yes this is the crucial question that isn't REALLY well researched
Scientifically I don't think there is really a chance to stop being gay. Humans can be heterosexual or homosexual, it's just normal. If you like both than you are bi
@@silvervixen007I agree with you. The problem is people still think that being anything other than cishet is a choice. I'm bi, I've known since I was 6, I had the biggest crush on Jasmine, I never heard of gay or lesbian or anything. Just my brain knew another girl was cute. If I could choose lord knows I'd be lesbian 😂. If trans people could choose they wouldn't go through the bullying and threats and homelessness and family disowning them etc.
Just to add, I think (so who knows) it's part of us, not something that one day appears at age 54 we start liking someone we didn't before, no. It's like saying being black is a choice or your eyeball color, it's just who you are. (again, my opinion). I do think people learn more about themselves with time which is sometimes why someone realizes they are (not became) gay at 40+.
“I don’t see intersex” is the same as “I don’t see skin color” LMFAO. Like it’s still there 💀
It was not in the same context. "I don't see skin colour" means I treat you the same as white, black, hispanic person.
"I don't see intersex" in that context ment he don't acknowledge her being intersex, because he believes there are only men and women. Which is the complete opposite of "I don't see skin colour"
@@SIAN_1 I don’t see skin color seems like an ok statement but it’s subtly racist. It’s diminishing the fact that their skin color IS different. It reminds me of the way he’s diminishing her gender because he doesn’t believe in intersex. Doesn’t change the fact that she physically is.
That’s definitely not the same lol.
@@kickroxanne you have to look at the underlying commonalities. If you think about it, definitely is the same lmfao. Stating you don’t see a certain characteristic of a person because of your beliefs is just weird and nobody wants to hear it.
@@kickroxanne I’m not saying he said it in the same context. I’m saying both statements are just as weird as eachother if that makes more sense LOL.
the guy in the gray tshirt is just giving denial is a river in egypt
I really hate how something that is supposed to bring joy and understanding in people's life often causes them to interpret it in a way that leads them to open prejudices and self hate.
Well, that is religion for you
That's religion in a nutshell
Nothing in your comment was true. Religion is a guide on how to live your life, there are always going to be things you’re to do and not do.. it’s not there to validate all of your choices, that’s where woke ideology goes wrong, it only leans one way towards hedonism and away from self control.
It's not self hate.. it's taking control of yourself. When you don't have self control, you are a slave... It's self defeating. One thing that does this self slavery the most often is sex... The most desirable sex is with someone who actually knows how you are feeling in pleasure... Men and women can't know what it feels like for the other, this means that the desire of that pleasure is inherently an attraction to a same sex pleasure. Feeding that desire allows it to control you.
It's not self hate, it's simply finding the truth...
deadass
no way shawty said being gay causes earthquakes 💀
Apparently I have elemental powers. I wish I knew sooner.
They're not saying being gay itself causes natural disasters and other things, but sin does. Look what happened after the Olympics. A whole power outage.
@@fuhgetabatit1051you are now more powerful than we ever imagined.
I’ve been wheezing at this 😂😂😂
FR like i didnt know I had elemental telekinesis 😭😭
I love that an intersex person was on this panel.
Thank you so much! I was grateful to be there
Why? Does the exception make a rule?
@@sobeliever1638there are millions of intersex humans.
@@sobeliever1638 it’s funny people like you “well exceptions” are the type to use “well these people are only 1% of population” and think because that percentage has “1” it’s insignificant when percentages represent amounts, that 1% can represent 100 MILLION people and in fact, 1.60% of people are intersex, that percentage represents around 100 million people. That is literally an amount of people a large whole country.
@@sobeliever1638the whole science of biology is the so called science of exemptions so dont come here pointing at and acting like u know what you are talking about since you dont even own a mere knowledge of biochemistry. Coming from a BioChem Major, please educate yourself before you speak hatred. Biology is way WAY more complex than what you may think or have thought. Goodnight and also 1% of the world isnt a very small percentage if u think that its equal to about 80 million people.
I feel like this videoo needs to be redone with a more diverse cast. I went here expecting conversations about the gay comunity in general, not conversations about what the gay comunity is/means to a christian or to the church and how gay is a sin and bla bla bla.... This felt like Bible Study
After watching Gilbert's video where the LGBTQ+ team discuss this video it feels like a huge let down from the Jubilee and Middle Ground team as it seemed like the other side couldn't express their opinions as much and the show unfortunately went to the "ex-LGBTQ+" side.. Also something about Rashad is soooo sus. The way he was being hateful to Abigail and attacking her for no reason, Gilbert made a great point in his video that he was attacking HER personally, not her beliefs. The fact he went from gay to married to a woman within 4 months and is now expecting a child but still has 'urges'.. Marrying a woman won't "fix" you or stop you being gay
hes bisexual. he will never get rid of his gay desires.
Yes rashad is the odd one out in a more disturbing way. The other christians are much closer to understanding, i fear rashad’s identity and marriage is going to crash and burn in some years.
he 100% will be divorced and not allowed to see his child within 5 years no doubt in my mind
when I read your comment I first read it as "He went from gay, to married, to being a woman" lol I realize now that is not at all what you said though
Thank you for seeing us. You are absolutely correct. That is exactly how our side feels!
abigail and gilbert were sooooo tired of samuel and rashad 😭💀
Can you blame them?
@@normpe2851 nope
I was tiring of listening to abigail
@@CLOWEN2010 truly
@@CLOWEN2010 *tired
Rodereck tryna cap that gayness hunny, it's literally spilling out of him lol
He switched everytime he came to sit. 😂
Him and sleeveless are tryna supress so bad lol
it's impressive to see how much energy and focus is spent on distilling "the truth" from one single book. this made sense at time when knowledge was almost non existant. Religous or not, it doesn't make any sense in this day and age to not question every piece of information and seek to understanding form multiple sources/perspectives., except if one's is looking to cultivate ignorance per say.
I think this video should be done again. Same prompt, different set of people. Having so many religious people on the panel makes this a religious discussion when I’m moreso interested in the conversation relying less on religion. I guess it’s hard to do this given many of the anti-lgbt people are religious, but there are definitely people out there who take a biological and scientific approach to homophobia
But religion can play a very big part in this specific conversation. Unless there is a very specific reasoning and choice made then why would people claim the ex label? At one point they were and then a moment happened in their lives where they chose to no longer be for a reason and I think for many people that is a religion
@@user-ks7yk1hv9q^^
@@user-ks7yk1hv9q but when panelists are talking about demons and how homosexuality causes earthquakes... it's not a productive conversation, they're in an alternate reality.
Also if it’s going to center on religion - why only christianity and no other religion? Like at least one other? I get it’s hard to represent such big populations of people in a tiny group like this but this was such a one one sided conversation
@@user-ks7yk1hv9qwithout religion the ex-lgbtq people have no leg to stand on, religion is not real it is delusion. You can't make an argument based soley on delusion and self hatred, you make arguements with empirical facts
You can tell Rashaad is hurting. No one is that preachy without burying alot of trauma.
I appreciate your empathetic observation. Honestly, it's true. He's a new Christian, husband and soon-to-be father and he's very young. I don't think he should've been on this panel. I think he'll regret it in years to come. I'm not convinced by his "transformation." It's way too new for him to come out swinging this hard especially when his experience is closer to the current LGBT than the ex-LGBT. We should've seen way more compassion from him to the current LGBT.
I feel really sorry for his wife. It's obvious that he is not really comfortable with his new found situation. He is repressing so much and so hard. It is bound to come out in unhealthy ways. It will either come out as cheating, leaving his wife, or (what is most worrying to me) he will take out his frustrations on his wife and kids.
@@uscitizen3252 That's just bad of you to assume things that hasnt happened and arent true. That's why you are dishonest and its bad for society what you are doing.
@@shalini_sevani Stop assuming you are a horrible person.
@@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfuseit’s amazing how they refuse to believe that being a Christian can change someone’s from being gay. Lol
This should be renamed Religion vs LGBTQ
More like Christianism vs LGBTQ
Hindus, Buddhists, Jainists, the Bahai doesn’t even care if you’re LGBT.
i dissagree only becuase some of the lgbtq folks were religious
@@EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE3EEEEEEEEEEbut ultimately they chose religion
ikrrrrrrr
@@EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE3EEEEEEEEEE
It's not really "religion," it's "Christianity." They didn't introduce Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion. They mentioned Baptist and Catholic. And Candace seems to be living under her own set of beliefs she's calling Christianity and it's not.
The over-focus on and over-presence of Christianity ruined the potential of this conversation.
Not any of the ex-lgbt panelists disagreed when Brandan pointed out that they were just surpressing how they feel, that says a lot.
And that's because a person can be gay and still be a Christian at the same time, but they would also be a cafeteria Christian ie: A cherry picking bible believer who is gay. I am an Atheist and a secular humanist.
Ya they did, rashad said in the beginning that he doesn’t have those desires anymore. Don’t be fooled, Jubilee ended the debate that way for a reason
@@jazm6154exactly
But they literally did…
Tell me you don't understand post-production editing without telling me you don't understand post-production editing.
as a non-religious person, i don’t understand how you can simultaneously say you love and respect someone while believing that they’ve done something that warrants being tortured for eternity.
You can have a friend that you believe has done something wrong, they believe that should get the consequences for their actions. But you do respect them as a person, you do care about them but you don’t support that one aspect of a person.
A lot of time I have friends who have parts of their personality I don’t like but that doesn’t mean I hate them as a person.
@@BorisVixen Are you admitting that you view Non Christian Groups as E*il?
It’s because we were created with free will. We have choices. We have the freedom to choose.
@@valeriethechaoticfalse equivalents
That's God's standards not our human fallen standards. He designed our bodies to connect to opposite gender to reproduce. Anything outside of that isn't his design but corruption including straight multiple partners BTW.
As an agnostic person i feel like religion was the center point of this whole conversation. “Can you stop being gay” has nothing to do with religion imo.
Well clearly babe lmao of you aren’t religious this video wasn’t for you …? If you’re not religious what would be your reason to want to “stop being gay”..?
@@TheGoatedOneHo I'm not religious, but I feel that this video was actually important and religion definitely has a place in the conversation. To answer your question, I'd say that gay shaming is more of a societal thing than a religious thing. Societal pressure to want to conform with your peers or the stereotypical straight couple is very strong, especially when there isn't a queer community in certain places, and especially when those queer spaces are often condemned or hated on. In schools, in church, in countries with laws against it, etc. There is a lot of hate for gay people online and throughout history, so there is a lot more than religion that goes behind wanting to not be gay.
Exactly, I can’t respect the former lgbt + community because to they aren’t standing in there true and then using religion to cover it up.
completely agree!!!! as one commenter said this video was mostly about anti-lgbtq christians and lgbtq-christians in which religion should never be the all encompassing focal point when discussing a very serious topic. Christianity is just ONE religion out of thousands and its insane to put this extreme weight and importance onto something that is simply just spiritual faith (not scientific or sociological) when not all people are even religious in the first place. our laws and morality should never be completely dictated by a book, and i think it's honestly sad that those ex-lgbtq people are so lost in figuring out who they truly are that they have to be explicitly told what to feel or do; they are struggling with their identity and i feel the reason why they latch on to the bible like that is because they don't understand themselves and don't have self respect as an individual. they have no confidence and have to be guided by a separate entity to feel like they have worth. that's not to say that christian lgbtq people dont have confidence, like candice she is very confident in herself and her spirituality so she doesnt feel the need to get approval or guidance from a book; she understands herself and respects herself without needing to follow every command in the bible to find self-worth.
it's true that religion can be part of one's lifestyle, but to put that much emphasis on it like how those ex-lgbtq people did without being able to have anything meaningful to contribute to the discussion that isnt religious like that is sad. completely REEKS of insecurity and internalized homophobia.
I found the heavy emphasis on religion incredibly offensive. I believe religion is nothing more than fantasies and I saw nobody on that panel who was explicitly atheist who engaged in and talked about that POV.