Unraveling the Controversy Behind Tilly and The Buttons New Pattern ESTI
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2023
- Hi everyone, my name is Samantha and welcome to my RUclips channel!
This video is a little different from the usual, today we are looking at the new Tilly and the Buttons ESTI sewing pattern and the current controversy surrounding this new pattern within the sewing community.
The Esti pattern has faced a lot of backlash based on the fit of the plus size trousers, their similarity to the already released Safiya trousers and the response from the Tilly Buttons team.
I have outlined the timeline of what happened, what was said, historical events, the thoughts and feelings of the sewing community and other recommended sewing patterns for larger bodies.
As always, I would love to know your thoughts - have you followed this controversial event over the past couple of weeks? What do you think?
Other mentioned sewing companies that have recommended patterns for plus size bodies:
Cashmerette - www.cashmerette.com
Muna & Broad - www.munaandbroad.com
Sew Outdoorsy - www.sewoutdoorsy.co.uk
Helen’s Closet - helensclosetpatterns.com
Closet Core Patterns - closetcorepatterns.com
Sew House 7 - sewhouse7.com
See you soon!
Sam
#sewinginswitzerland #tillyandthebuttons #estipattern #sewingdrama #sewingvlog #controversialsewingpatterns #fatphobicsewingcompanies #sewing #plussizesewing #plussize #fatsewing #controversialsewing #estisewingpattern 
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I wonder how much of the Esti situation is just them feeling pressure to produce larger patterns? Even the responses they gave (the thing about never needing to "normally" toile more than once. I don't believe this for a second) came across as not really giving a shit. My 2 cents - If companies are just going to enter the "plus sized" range because of social pressure, they shouldn't bother. If they aren't prepared to put the effort, cost and time into either learning how to draft for larger bodies, or pay the money for someone who HAS put in that effort, then they should stay in their "Straight sized" lane.
You don't know their thoughts.. You only judge from your perception and it is just that perception.. be kind
I think it is always okay to be kind. I don't think there is anything about TATB company that seems mean-spirited. Everyone makes mistakes, don't they? There was an apology that sounded sincere to me. If we don't like a pattern, we don't have to buy it. But I don't believe for an instant that they are bad people there.
Sincerely disgusted that they might be expected to treat plus sized people like humans?
@@SewinginSwitzerland I still feel you could have contacted the people who made the pattern rather than put in on YT I feel you made the plus size model feel worse
No it’s not ok to make a mistake. You are paying for a product that should have been drafted to fit the size range it says it does.
as a plus size women I do not think their apology was sincere. For me it is apparent that you are from small size people and simply do not understand how it offends us. Probably they are not bad people but the way how they treat plus size people is bad.
@@kristine2916 They made a mistake.. I am plus sized and certainly didn't take offense..
I agree with the comments about the improper fit on the model. I've noticed that to some extent on her larger models in the past. But this comment is purely about the term "flattering". I think some people, maybe even most people consider the word flattering to be synonymous with thinner, but I and I'm sure (or I would hope at least) lots of other people don't look at it that way. To me flattering means dressing so you feel good and confident in what you are wearing and it shows. I've seen many "fat" people who look amazing in what they are wearing because they have taken the time to find or make something they feel wonderful in. They still look fat, it's impossible to hide that Nd it doesn't need to e hidden anyway. But they look gorgeous. I've also seen many slim and so called perfect figured people who looked terrible in their clothing (and totally unflattering, even though they still look thin in their clothing) because they haven't taken the time to feel good in what they are wearing. So to reiterate, I hope people will start thinking of flattering as being confident and comfortable in what they are wear it, not thin or a certain body shape. I'm still going to use that term because I think it's a beautiful term when used correctly.
I forgot to mention that I also fall into the category of "fat sewist". Not so much now that I have lost a significant amount of weight and fit in the top size of most "regular" size patterns. But before that, I couldn't have fit in any of those patterns, so I'm happy that so Many pattern companies are jumping on the bandwagon of increasing their sizes. They all have a long way to go to get the fitting right though. And before anyone has a negative comment about my losing weight to look better, I felt at my most beautiful and confident when I was at my heaviest. That confidence has followed me through my weight loss, not because I'm thinner, but only because I learned how to dress to feel good in my body. My weight loss was only a side effect to joining my husband on a very low carb and sugar free diet so he wouldn't die on me, and I didn't want him to do it on his own. Both of our healths have significantly improved because of our diet change. But that's a whole other story.
Does flattering imply thinner!!?! I never thought that was true. Ive always thought flattering means you shine in the garment rather than anything drawing attention away from you. It could be the color looks good against your skin or the cut emphasizes your best features. If you have great legs the garment flatters you if it shows them. Same is true if the neckline draws attention to face etc. You can be a plus size and find patterns that float over areas you prefer to minimize. I am in my sixties and have a belly I dont attempt to look thinner but I dont like belted garments. They arent flattering! Anyway its a neutral word/concept. People shouldn't react negatively to style preferences based on body shape.
I agree that "flattering" often means "thinner." I also agree that it means - and wish it to be universal when the world revolves around me, haha - when what one is wearing reflects the person wholly (inside and out). It is reflected in their comfort and ease. Whatever physical attributes are emphasized, then, would be the choice of the person themselves. I'd go so far as to suggest the word be used by those who know the person to whom they are complimenting well enough to see beyond the surface "look."
@@SewinginSwitzerland you are quite a bit younger than me. I'm 62, and definitely lived through the "thinner is more beautiful" era, but I refused to believe it, even though it did affect my self worth from my early or pre teen years until my mid 20's, and even very slightly into my mid thirties, but I still had my own sense of style, and what I felt that I looked good in throughout that time, and wore it confidently throughout that time. It really didn't matter to me if others thought it looked flattering on me or not. I was actually more bothered by being high/short waisted than by weight/size, but that's a discussion for another time. I was actually told by some of the "popular" girls when we were preparing and decorating for prom night that they envied me because I wore what I liked, without worrying if it was the trend, and didn't care what others thought. That was a real eye opener for me because I had always thought I was invisible, especially to them. And that comment has always stuck a chord with me. They obviously thought my clothes was flattering on me in some way, or they wouldn't have been envious. So it really is too bad that flattering is often synonymous with thinner. But perhaps people only think it is, and subconsciously don't actually believe it.
Hi Samantha. My sister alerted me to your vlog because we have spent some time discussing the this pattern release and the varied responses it. I found your thoughts very interesting and thought provoking as you provided some background that I was not aware of. I thought that launch of this pattern with such disregard for curvy or fat sewists was not the finest hour for the TATB team. I toile all of my new patterns because I need a particular set of adjustments for my personal taste and my individual body. I adjust Cashmerette patterns because I want to, but Jenny and her team have a much better knowledge of the curvy bodies and it shows in every pattern that I have sewn.
I had not heard the response from TATB that you read out, and I thought it was 'disappointing' and insulting at many levels. If they don't want to put their resources into properly drafting for curvy bodies they should stop and not pretend they are drafting properly or disrespecting any sewists, curvy or not, who have the right to a good quality pattern. I did notice that The Foldline presented the pattern as if there was no controversy or issue and did not show the curvy photo. They clearly too, made a business decision, not refer to the curvy version controversy even though there was much discussion on their FB page.
You've certainly made me think and best of all, I have found a new vlogger with the most gorgeous pugs. I love pugs, I 'get' pugs, having once owned one.
I have a fat body but my shape is nothing like the lovely Sophie. I have a large bottom and a higher waist belly narrow waist and a much bigger bust than Sophie has. So, in my experience it doesn't matter who creates a plus size pattern they might make it to fit Sophie and then I buy the same pattern then I have to start tweaking and adjusting the rear of the pants. I have been sewing for years (now in my 70's) but I get so frustrated because I could pick out 10 plus sized figures and every one has their lumps and bumps in different places. So personally, I prefer to create my own toile to my own body measurements especially for trousers.
Sad to say the bigger you become the harder it is to create any pattern without having to adjust it in more than one place.
I didn't buy the pattern as i have the safiya and it fits ,the top could be self drafted even by a beginner. I am sorry so many people have been upset by the photo on the pattern by my thoughts are with the poor model 💔
I took one look at the photo for the Esti co-ord and decided that it would not look good on me at all. Then, I didn't give it another thought until now. I've personally been far more angry at ready-to-wear clothing manufacturers. They seem stuck in the past. There does seem to be more good options like Cashmerette for me as compared to ready-to-wear. I've made three Cashmerette patterns so far. I'm still a beginner sewist, and I'm not yet comfortable doing many alterations without help so would avoid any patterns that would require that. That said, I do understand why you and many others would be angry about this even if I'm not. You all have a valid concern. There is a reason that many independent companies have two size ranges. Maybe Tilly and the Button could collaborate with one of the other companies that have mastered drafting for larger sizes? Increasing the size range in a half-hearted way has clearly back-fired especially for the more fitted garments.
You just confirmed what I already thought about tatb. I first tried buying a book of theirs and realized I couldn't use any of the patterns. I knew they had since increased their range, but they still left a bad taste in my mouth. I love supporting indies, but not ones that make me feel invisible or worse. Btw, cashmerette banned the word "flattering" in their clubhouse. Thanks for ending this w a shout out to companies that care about curvy sewists.
My 19 year old daughter taught me to dress what feels good and not what is traditionally shape “flattering” I’m still learning but it’s good to know the next generation is so progressive ❤. Also I’m here for the drama 😂. The pants looked uncomfortable to me as I am a very similar shape to the model, so I was never going to buy it
I’m happy to use flattering- it just means the garments suit me and I feel happy in them. I am also pear- shaped and seek patterns that suit my shape.
Thanks for the info. I agree with the restaurant comparison...
Interesting video.
Personally I am not fan of Tilly and The Buttons patterns.
When i saw new patttern my thought was - why
I would expect build in FTA in various size ranges
I feel like there is a pressure on big(popular) indie companies to produce new patterns as quickly as possible and quality is not there.
I am plus size sewist myself and i am very sceptical about majority of sewing pattern companies.
There is a lot of small pattern designers who do not have extensive size range and thats ok too. No one is forcing anyone to design for bodies they don't understand and I think this was a problem here.
I personally love word Flattering but for me it doesn't mean thinner - for me there is a lot hidden in this world - feeling confident, and sexy, and put together and "taller".
Btw Ellie and Mac has quite large size range, especially on their newest patterns (going to 7 xl if I remember correctly). I love their patterns
Greetings from Ireland
Thanks for bringing attention to this issue. There are a lot of latent beauty ideals baked into patterns - based on young, white and thin American college women in the 30s and 40s. They’re rarely designed for actual humans, only mathematical models and dress forms. Even indie patterns fall prey to this bias.
It seems to me that independent pattern companies tend to reflect the body shape of their originators, probably because this is the shape they know best. Tilly does not have a body shape that looks like mine and I have never been tempted to make any of their designs. Designs that reflect their originator's shape is not unique to this company, for years I did not try any Cashmerette patterns because all her publicity shots looked like the patgerns were drafted for short waisted people. Sandra Betzina designs seem to look best on a taller 'rectangular' shaped body. Personally I am quite happy for these companies to stick to what they know best, instead of hounding them to design for every figure variation. There are plenty of other companies who create great plus sized designs. Having said that if I was their head of marketing I would be taking a long hard look at the stylist, photographer and editor who approved the publication of the image of such an ill fitting garment.
I think we also have to be realistic about our own expectations, even a skeleton has figure variations such as shoulder slope, height, and hip width. As soon as we start to put flesh on those bones we start to multiply the figure variations. You do not have to be plus sized to have fitting issues because of where your body stores fat. In my teens I had a 12" difference between my bust, waist and hips, every dress I tried on looked like I had an empire waist line. As I gained weight I realised that fitting patterns needed even more thought, as no pattern company can know where the extra flesh will be distributed on your body. I still have to do a full bust adjustment, lengthen the bodice and shorten sleeve and hem lengths in Cashmerette patterns. I do not go around complaining that they are not designing for my size, I accept that they, like every other pattern company, has averaged out their sizes for their target market. One day I might find a designer who looks like a slightly taller and heavier Dolly Parton and I will be able to make their designs with minimal changes 😊; until then I accept that I will need to tweak every pattern I buy to match my current shape.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this pattern & issues raised. I have two of Tilly’s books & a couple of other individual patters & they are some of my favourite, as her instructions are normally great. However, I have been surprised at the picture on the cover of this + the Mable pattern as I think neither are flattering for the larger model. I think they rushed getting this produced, may be an unwise move. As a lady of 72 (size 16 nearly into a size 14) I fully accept not all patterns are going to suit me, whilst on younger people they look great. I try to go for 3/4 sleeves re bingo wings & avoid very sort length top finishing at the waist or higher. My preference for covering my tum & bum halfway. I hope this doesn’t harm Tilly’s reputation.😊
I appreciate your thoughts and break down on this and all of the feedback that fat/plus size sewists have given TATB. I truly think they should have held off and done the additional work on drafting the pattern before releasing it and I hope they learn from this moving foward. It's quite disappointing but I think they'll adjust moving forward, it was one error, a big one, but not an insurmountable one.
Also, I agree about it looking SOOO similar to the Safiya pants, I thought the same thing when I saw them!
This was a really interesting vlog to watch, maybe one I would have been better suited to watching when I haven’t just got out of bed 😂
I felt the research you conducted was great, and also referencing back felt quite factual.
This particular pattern was also badly drafted after making it myself but I am usually a TATB fan, but they could of handled this better.
I have read through your comments and article links on the the term you used quite happily and with no malice, they were interesting reads 😊 but the word FAT, in my personal opinion, I do associate this quite negatively, and I don’t feel it is in keeping with body positivity, but this is a personal preference. Curves should be celebrated 😊
Enjoyed your vlog, looking forward to the next one x
I absolutely agree with you! Thank you for saying my feelings and thoughts loud.
I totally agree, the model looks very uncomfortable, I've bought TATB patterns and have no problem with them, but I just wouldn't buy this pattern. I think TATB need to get back to basics
I think part of the issue is that they have done the basics to death. I think they now need to start being adventurous
I've just found your channel this morning and loving your videos (and doggos!) Like many in the comments, I saw the pictures and thought the Esti wasn't for me. I think the last three TATB patterns have been designed without fat sewists in mind. As someone with big b00bs I don't want to add a high neck gathers and pin tucks to accentuate them! I feel like TATB have expanded their size range due to pressure from the sewing community but they haven't adapted their design process or ethos, I'd be interested to know if they even have a plus size block or if they just grade everything from one.
Thanks so much for this video! I love the term fat sewist - it's the only phrase that directly addresses my own sewing experience.
It's shocking that the photos from the shoot ever found their way to publication, even more shocking that they are for a home sewing product - if you make your own clothes surely the big bonus is that you can make them to fit your own body. A pattern company needs to demonstrate that. As soon as the model put the clothes on it would have been apparent to everyone in the room that they didn't fit AT ALL and could not be used. Instead, the image has dragged home sewing and fat people into an arena where both can be ridiculed and totally misunderstood. And we are talking here about a pair of elasticated trousers - not something complicated!
I think the issues with this simple pattern mean that the only sensible thing for TATB to do would be to withdraw it. If they can't get something so basic right it needs to go. And please, ALL pattern makers, don't make any more patterns for fat people until you know what a fat person is and needs.
I also absolutely love term fat sewist. I hate commonly used "curvy" because it has nothing to do with bigger size. I was curvy 30 kilos ago when I had big waist/hip difference. Now, after 3 kids, covid lockdown, menopause and several surgeries, I am fat but not curvy. And I am OK with that.
I am working on my 3rd toile of a shorts pattern to try to figure out the fit and grading of the pattern. This is the first time I've sewn anything from a pattern since the 8th grade. I started here because my brother got me the Cashmerette Upton pattern for Christmas because I thought it was a pattern that didn't look like a tent, didn't need knits or an overlocker, and when I started working with it, I wound up emailing Cashmerette for help with what size to cut. The response was super short and basically just said I'd have to scale or grade or whatever the pattern because my measurements are too big even with the cup adjustments and such. I'm not a huge person. I wear a 24 in ready to wear, and am a plus sized hourglass. So I bought it based on waist measurement (I wanted to make the skirt version). I am new at this, and I had told them this in my email. So the short response like I should have known and that I should just know how to fix the pattern to work was enough to make me give up for months. After working and trying to learn to scale a cheaper pattern and doing multiple toiles, I think my plan is to just learn to draft my own. If they aren't going to make patterns in my size and even the plus sized specializing companies are going to be that discouraging, I'm just going learn to cut them out altogether.
I agree with most of what you have said. I think the pattern does fall short of what it should have been and the trousers clearly do not fit the model. I have also heard that there seems to be a lot of issues with gaping of the top on all sized models - makes me wonder if the pattern has just been poorly drafted full stop. Not very impressed on this occasion and normally love TATB
Interesting to hear about this. I didn't know of this company until one of the competitors on this season of GBSB used one of their patterns. I am a pattern tester for an indie pattern company, and one thing I like is that they always have at least 2 testers for each size they offer. There are usually multiple rounds of testing - first, 2-3 rounds in "testing" mode, and then another 2-3 in pre-release mode, depending on any issues that are found that didn't come up in the first test run. Doing just one toile and leaving it ill fitting definitely seems poor business practice if you are going to offer extended sizing. I hope they didn't anything maliciously (why would any company that wants to stay in business), and that this was a learning opportunity for them.
I also thought it very expensive when I looked for such a simple pattern. I have made the Safiya trousers and thought they are the same. The only difference is the elastic is only on the back on the Safiya where ut is all round on the etsi. An easy thing to change.
The length is just a simple adjustment for anyone.
While I don't mind it being necessary to do a full tummy adjustment, I liken that to a small or large bust adjustment. I do see how ill fitting the top is with the gaping. I do one to two toiles. The first one and then a second d to see if any adjustments have worked.
This is a great summary of the whole situation - thank you! Also share your dislike of "flattering."
Also the basic top does not lay flat on any makes I have seen on Insta and vlogs. Think it was just rushed out to hit the summer Market.
I was horrified when I saw the plus sized model in the pattern. I felt really embarrassed for her.
Interesting content. I dismissed this pattern as it was too simple.
The statement TATB released doesn't sound like they care about the flack this has caused. You're right, it's veryz passive aggressive.
This model has a very large omentum which actually can happen to smaller women as well as bigger women (men too can suffer from this as well). I think it actually didn't look that bad considering where the fat was accumulated. They probably couldn't find another model in time for the photoshoot.
I agree that the photo of the plus size model is not good. But lots of people go out looking like that. It certainly doesn't inspire me to buy it because I would not go out looking like that.
As a plus size person who is only 5'3" and normally a size 24ish in most indie patterns, I have never found a trouser pattern that I haven't had to adjust. The rise is always too short in the front, and sometimes in the back. Sometimes I also have to add fabric to the width in front too. For me, making anything, normally means that if I want it to fit, I have to adjust something, but I generally know what I will need to do now.
I totally agree that for a new sewist, they would be very disappointed with the results unless they normally go about dressed like that.
Comparing a body shape to fruit is normal in the UK.
I didn't totally agree with all your take on the issue, but overall, I did agree that more needs to be done for us larger people.
Thanks for your vlog. When I saw the photos of the new Esti pattern the first thing I noticed was how badly fitted it was on the bigger model.
It’s refreshing to hear views which are honest.
IMO you can’t just expand a pattern and expect it to fit bigger bodies. TATB are a successful business and they should do the research and make accurate patterns for all the sizes covered by the pattern.
The way the “blame” was shifted by saying the photos would be taken again is terrible. The problem is with the pattern not the woman wearing the garment.
I also agree that it he trousers are practically identical to the safire trousers.
I’m going to make the safire trousers and a Helen’s closet top, saving some money as well.
Totally agree with your comments and like you said the poor plus size model should be guaranteed trousers that fit. I will defo adjust my trousers to add extra room. Again, beginners may not be able to adjust the pattern and the pattern should be printed properly for the cost of the pattern.
I'm a very new sewist, and a fat sewist, who hasn't stepped into the garment-making arena yet. I've been collecting information, looking up pattern companies, trying to see where I might fit in this new space. The Esti situation, and the response from TATB, then hearing that they weren't all that interested in creating patterns for people like me to begin with has really put a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to them. I've unfollowed them on IG, and I won't be purchasing any of their patterns. I appreciate your candor and willingness to try to put all the pieces of this together and give an opinion on it. I do feel for the model, and I hope she understands that people are angry at a perceived injustice done to her and the community she was meant to represent without feeling personally affronted.
There really are lots of great companies that cater to fat sewists/larger sewists/plus sized sewists (however anyone wants to label themselves). I think it's so impressive you're doing lots of groundwork before diving into garments. I think it will make your time sewing clothes more rewarding.
OMG - this is the first and last video I will watch from SEWING IN SWITZERLAND. There are no words!
You so love to gossip!!
A mistake was made - get over it!
This was a very considered reaction to the Este controversy. I find myself as a fat sewist agreeing with everything you’ve said. I’ve always felt Tilly and the buttons as a designer group is overly simple and not particularly flattering at the larger sizes. I am a massive fan of cashmerette, whose attention to detail of sewing for curved bodies is incomparable. For those looking for a co-ordinated look, or indeed an all in one I heartily recommend the Pattern emporium Seachange jumpsuit and play suit. It is gorgeous on everyone from the most petite to the largest, fullest figure. It can be hacked into a two piece with very little effort, and is waaaaay more stylish than the Este. Thanks for taking the time to give us your thoughts…..
Hi, I love your outfit. May we have the details of the patterns and the fabric for the top and trousers?
Interesting video, I did see the image when released and I did think that the trousers looked ill-fitting on the plus size model, to the extent that it put me off buying the pattern.
Not actually tried any TATB patterns so far, really enjoyed her book, "Love at first stitch" which inspired me to get into sewing.
I agree with others, I think Tilly is very creative and talented, just not great at designing for plus size sewers. I personally prefer Cashmerette and Helen's Closet, their designs are really thoughtful and the instructions thorough. I think TATB has attempted to get into the plus size market and is missing the mark, would be interesting to know if they have any plus size sewers working for them as I feel its not enough to increase the size of a pattern drafted for a smaller person, often the design itself needs tweaked - just my opinion based on what I have seen produced by Cashmerette.
Agreed! Pics please. Evidence based!
Also sewing in Switzerland :0)
Also sewing in Switzerland!
I don’t think that the pattern was properly tested before they release it. Even for my situation, as a small sizes sewist, the poor fitting raised an alarm that it wasn’t going to be a high quality pattern. This also happened to me a few times, that some patterns were just like narrowed to make the smallest sizes and ended up totally ill fitting ( Friday Patterns Square Neck Top was the worst one ever). As a smaller sizes sewist I am not complaining, as it is much more difficult for larger sizes sewists to find great fitting and options from the patterns companies. I am an advanced beginner and first time I saw the TATB picture I immediately thought the fitting was horrible. I am not going to waste money on this pattern, but wasn’t tempted to get it in the first place.
My sewing teacher, who worked previously making commercial patterns for a major company, took one look at the Friday Patterns Square Neck Top and said. "I don't like how this is drafted." Then she recut the armhole. She told me that some independent pattern makers don't have a lot of experience. I later heard the owner of Friday Pattern company say herself on a podcast that her first pattern the Square Neck top wasn't drafted very well. So, it's probably not just you in this case.
@@elizabethgardner6832thank you, this is great to know- I think that your teacher just knows about what is or isn’t a great pattern. However, this pattern just should be retired from their list, as this was a complete loss of money and time for me. No need to say, I will never buy from this company again- they have lost me as a client for ever. After I made it, I looked online and found out how so many people were disappointed and had to completely re- draft it. There even was a tutorial video from a sewist (not from Friday Patterns)showing how to re-draft it, and it was about modifying the neckline, the body and the sleeves… the thing is, they are still selling it as it is (horrible) and never took the time to make the modifications that were required, even knowing how the proportions of the smaller sizes are ill.
You have mentioned the fit of the trousers, but what about the top? Almost everyone says it gapes between the straps. It is too wide across the upper chest. Quite a few on instagram and you tube have said they should have sized down and made a full bust adjustment. So this is just a poor fitting pattern across all the size ranges in my opinion.
I am plus sized, I won't be making it. Good video. You have a new subscriber.
personally I was a little disappointed with just how simple this pattern is. I bought it. I was hoping it would at least have side pockets or something other than a basic elastic waist. My fault for not thoroughly reading the blurb. Although I have made it. The top fits perfectly flat without gaping... and no adjustments. The trousers are wide (similar to a palazzo) but hang beautifully in a drapey fabric. I am going to make a plus size version for my step daughter.. am interested to see how that works out
Tilly has never been that size inclusive. I would criticise the pattern because the designer has been unable to fit her model.
However, on one group there were were personal comments made about Tilly. This is uncalled for.
She may not be the best designer in the world but she is a lovely person!
I haven’t got the pattern, I’m not a lover of TATB patterns- they just aren’t my style but they also all look like patterns for slim people that are just graded up, which doesn’t work. Plus sizes are not just bigger version of a slim block, but this issue is not limited to this pattern company and as a short, round person, I have learnt to pick pattern designers that understand this.
Big 4 puts out patterns that don’t fit models always. If you look really closely it’s the way the model is photographed that makes it look like it fits. I agree with you on the excuse used for the boo boo. Just a note to you, using the word fat were I live is an insult. California. I probably need an education on the use of the word.
To be honest, I see fotos of bad fitting clothes on the models on sewing patterns all the time, no matter what shape they are. Burda is the best example - a lot of their fotos are „Vogue like glam shots“. But even with the strangest pose, it does not even let you see the features of the garment - and you can clearly see that the garment does not fit. They often cover their models in tents. Call it oversized. Well, even an oversized look has to fit - otherwise it is just too big. I know that many people dont like Burda anyways - and thats for a reason. And - I am saying it out loud right now - the pictures they chose for the plus size model on the Davenport dress (Friday pattern Co) were not the best choice either.
Interesting that you’ve linked closet core in your description when they have their own controversy going on at the moment with the release of their latest pattern that people on social media are suggesting is a direct copy of a Mara Hoffman dress (without any credit to her) whether that is or not I don’t know, re this pattern, yes, the esti very much feels like the type of garment that home sewists used to be ridiculed for a few decades ago, it doesn’t feel as if it’s designed for an adult female figure at all and the design would suit a child more, maybe that’s why it’s so poorly drafted? Its not the kind of design I would want to wear and based on the images on the larger model, I think I’ll pass
The term “Fat sewist”Really? Very few people, fit into the cookie cutter sizes of a lot of pattern companies, even smaller sized people have to make adjustments to patterns, there is absolutely no way any company (independent or not) can make patterns for every body size. I am aware that TATB has made her brand “new to sewing friendly” and should continue to supply the appropriate amount of hand holding that has come to be expected from her company. On the terms used about fruit shapes this is a common practice by stylists and designers, it’s just a point of reference, along with inverted triangles. The Closet Historians RUclips channel teaches people how to draft your own pattern block so you can make your own patterns ( stop supporting companies that have begrudgingly made patterns for larger body shapes). I as a large sized sewist remember when TATB resisted making larger sizes, so I decided (as a larger size) I would not financially support her company. I have recently started (trying) to learn how to draft for my body, I refuse to take the time and money needed to sew and wear something that someone else decides would look good on my shape. Through all this there is a human being that is probably feeling very uncomfortable with the situation she has been forced into, yes it is a phobia on the part of the company, but at the center of it all is this lovely lady, who does look miserable and uncomfortable. I’m saddened that in this day and age, we still have to have this conversation. Ladies and Gentlemen, dress in what makes you comfortable, wear the colors that make you happy, live your life as you see fit and let others do the same, I wish you all Godspeed and peace.
Plenty of larger sewists use the term "fat sewist/sewer" as a way of reclamation. The argument is that the word "fat" is simply a descriptive term rather than a negative term with judgement attached to it 🤷♀ I agree with you about most people needing to make adjustments to patterns and I've also done a comprehensive grading course so that I can grade straight sized patterns to my size. It's not popular amongst larger sewists but I find it really helpful in making the wardrobe I want and I think that grading and/or being able to make your own block are terrific skills to have.
What's wrong with that word? Would you also be offended if someone was saying skinny/slim? I think you are projecting.
@@shonaaitken7635 I have yet to hear a larger sewist use the term “fat sewist”, and I speak to a lot of people who (like me) are larger in size, I would never go into a store and ask “ where are the fat people clothes kept?”.
@@pavlal.4552 What’s wrong with the word is it is a hurtful word. Projecting, yeah maybe, but since skinny is not the word used for smaller sizes in the sewing community why should Fat be acceptable?
@@I_sew_slow you are of course entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to argue, have a lovely day 🌹.
I will not have looked at the pattern further than the first picture you showed. The fat model look is very boring in fabric details but simple enough to show how the pattern works, but the smaller one is so busy that it looks like they want to hide something. I don’t trust super busy fabric in a pattern sale picture. It’s just an indicator to me that something is off about the project. I don’t have time or patience to figure out what any more.
Hello, that is a really fantastic point - I completely agree. I don't mind so much if there's multiple samples shown with different fabrics but when it is just the one, it can feel a little sneaky and underhand. Wishing you a wonderful day xox
2nd comment: I am fully aware that chili in the buttons is a company and not one person in my other comment. I said Tilly recognizing that, but I guess others who are reading this did not know me and how I think. I apologize for any kind of misunderstand.
I am a plus size person, but with curves, I have a large booty, bigger bust and stuff up but definitely built more like a stove pipe because of a large sway back. Nothing fits me right, and I have to alter everything. I go into a project expecting this. My biggest issue is that patterns from pattern companies, especially the big four, will only be available up to a 16, 18, or 20, and my body needs more than a sixteen just to accommodate my bottom and bustline. Tops without darts will not work without darts or something else to accommodate my breasts. I need a little more fabric to make these alterations..
This is a problem in RTW as a well. When asked various designers why their clothing goes up to a size 10 in some cases, Their answer was that they do not feel that a particular design will not look good on anyone larger than their current size limit. It was stated that some designers think that heavy women can’t or won’t pay high prices for their products. This is insulting to many, many women.
They also stated that making things larger costs them more at every step of the process. I get that it. It always comes down to the almighty buck, or pound or what ever your country calls its base money. Shame on them.
I wear alot of there patterns as they are so much easier to fit for her patterns are normally easy to get a good fit as l am a 18 -20
I was very keen to buy the Mabel dress from TATB but because of this latest controversy I am going to look for a similar dress pattern from another company.
If they don’t care about catering consistently for my needs as a fat sewist then I don’t care to spend my money on their products.
Hello from NY - Upstate. So about the fruit.... We have been using fruit ti describe body shape for as long as have bben aware and most likely long before. We just don't take issue with it but, then again we don't include potatoes. To me that is your personal narrative and since it is widely accepted, I can't really fault this company. Also we are "notorious" for boycotting what we think is a bad deal. We difinately spread the bad word but we don't reward the company by buying the product. ie. Bud lite beer. If the company falls to meet the standard of it's consumers, it's tanked itself. My first thought is is the pattern copywrited? Why not post a free download of it, if legal? Or a revised version that is better? The company may realize that they are really only a for profit business with all kinds of competition and may adjust. It sounds like TATB started as a one man idea to make some extra cash easily. As such they haven't seemed to grow with their expansion professionally. They may never develop it met the need of their expansion and a lot of stress fills their factory. It is just simple cause and effect. If they can't produce, they will eventually get eaten up in the business. Either way it's their decision. Any emotional entanglements or concepts of co-ownership leading to trying to get them to change the way they do business are individual traits not business practices. Structurally, TATB produced a poor product, skip the need to "kindize" and justify the simple truth and tell them that their product is poor and not worth purchasing. In America, if a product is poor we send it back and demand a refund. Good for you Brits for calling them out. Now be bold and declare it. Don't be afraid to stand up against the Company policies. And keep it within the boundries of "business." That way you won't struggle with our own boundries of emotional thinking and feeling the need to be fair. Fair is producing a produce that 'fits' the advertisement offered by the company. I'm not saying be rude, after all, you are not Americans. lol The CEO is operating based on her emotional thinking not her analytical reasoning. She obviously doesn't want to become a larger business. So she is trying to justify her emo decisions with a little misapplied selfjustification and the it has become the companies policy. IMHO, it would be better to leave out our emotiomal reaction in the form of semi-judgement and list all the actual facts of how the products fails. Make a clear descision of judgement of whether the company fulfilled it's obligation or not. Then separately comfort the wounded. And protect the innocent pre-purchasers which you are doing by vlog it. I like your nice approach. I just feel that if it sucks, say clearly that it sucks. Otherwise it's more of a complaining than an opinion. Sorry for ruffling any feathers. Ruffled feathers make the best for creating new designs like changing a hair style from the mess on our head. Maybe the CEO of TATB just needs to know what her customers demand in order to make the decision as to whether she will lead the company in that direction or not. Maybe I should give the company a point of view from the other side of the pond, cowboy style. Lol So glad I decided to watch your vid! It's been delightful. Thank you.
I personally hate it when plus size persons are called fat.
The same model is on the mabel dress and she models the top version, the trousers featured also aren't the best fit either. I feel so bad for the model as patterns should be fitting correctly, especially as that the whole point of a pattern. As everyone knows over 50% of the UK population is over a uk size 16. They really should accept that plus size is perfectly normal and a proper range should be made especially at 20 quid a pattern.
Tilly and the Buttons dropped the ball. Better to stick to Muna and Broad, where it will fit out of the box without adjustments.
I find most independant pattern comoanys dont size up particularly well and pdfs are a nightmare
The company needs to be very cognizant of the plus size community. I have gotten to the point when a company just ignores their customers, then my solution is to not spend my money with them. If the plus size community boycott Tilly and the Buttons. As a small company not to mention some very large companies have learned this lesson the hard way, that they are dependent on the customers to keep their doors open.
I agree, this is not flattering on the plus size model
YT sewists must stop and question their role in this situation. Many of the sewists l follow bend over backwards and twist themselves in knots to explain the wonderful inclusiveness of the size range. The ideology of inclusiveness may have gone too far. Women are different; all styles are not going to work for all bodies. Simply enlarging a pattern for the sake of inclusiveness doesn’t always work.
I am not a YT sewer but I am wondering what you mean by "their role in this situation"? I see YT sewers as just being sewers who can have an opinion about anything that happens in the sewing "community" and just use YT to reach their people the same way people might use Tiktok or IG. I am also confused by "inclusiveness may have gone too far". I know that no matter your size you will mostly need to make tweaks to a pattern to fit your body, but surely having a larger size range and including more people could only ever be a good thing? I do completely agree that the way people's body distribute weight and ratios is not simply a case of making a pattern larger (or we'd all just be able to print a pattern larger and have it work). That's why companies like Cashmerette and Muna and Broad who actively put incredible effort (and skill) into making their patterns for larger people work so well as so highly regarded. They'll be getting my money.
@@shonaaitken7635I was referencing the obvious approval expressed about a wide size range versus disappointment when a pattern has not adopted a larger size range. These “opinions” must be noted by pattern designers and puts pressure on them to comply with inclusiveness sometimes to the detriment of their designs and the women who wear them.
@@lifesbanquet4501 Ah, I understand now. Yes, I am sure designers and pattern companies take note of opinions from all social media sources. I haven't noted many positive responses to this particular pattern from people with larger bodies. I have seen straight sized people lauding them for "inclusivity", but I don't know that it counts if they never have to wear the badly designed larger sizes.
@@shonaaitken7635 What you want to look for is for people who draft separately for different cup size and curvy, it often means redesigning a pattern from an idea as much as 8 different times. Jennifer Lauren springs to mind with that one. It would be a breath of fresh air if RUclipsrs and Instagram sewists were to collectively decide to focus on and boost designers who at minimum design for cup sizes, so *everyone* knows what's out there and know that at the very least they can skip any full-bust adjustments.
Is this a bit of over complacency with TATB, as in, if we make it, people will buy it regardless , I have see lots of makers and not only the trousers but the top doesn’t seem that good either as everyone seems to have the extra fabric at the tops of the front. f you cant do it properly what ever the size of people, then don’t do it, nothing is more upsetting than someone who does something as a token gesture.
I agree the pattern is poorly constructed, both in the pants for a plus size woman and in the common issue of the top gaping across the size range. It seems to me this pattern should not have been released without more work. I also agree that the statement TATBs released in response to the controversy about the plus size pants, is passive aggressive. Several people here are leaping to the defence of the company as if any critique of their work is an attack on the company. I have several TATB patterns that I am happy with. I am not saying the company is bad, I am saying this pattern simply isn’t good enough, especially at the expensive price!
I think it’s just a poor pattern, desperately wanting to get onto the coord bandwagon. the trousers are disproportionate- far too wide, but not in an attractive palazzo pant way! the safiya and lots of other trousers fit a wide range of sizes and heights much better. The top doesn’t fit properly, I’ve seen 3 vloggers already with different body shapes, and bust sizes , they all have an extra bit of fabric that pops up in the middle of the the front. Again plenty of similar tops that will give you the same look. The fruit analogy is a very common one, not just the fold line. It’s a theory like labelling people as colour seasons, can help people choose clothes that make them feel better. I would find it very interesting when companies such as these release a pattern, what alternatives are there on the market, and how people can put together a similar look without buying a new pattern, maybe taking advantage of free patterns.
I think a lot of Tilly patterns do not look flattering. I recently purchased the Magnitude dress because The Ethan who had The Secret Life of a Seamstress sewed a beautiful version. I think the pictures on the pattern envelope look like a circus tent. People renew about Tilt and i often do not understand. When i see finished farmers that some have been brave enough to try i can't see that the finished result looks lovely. I think they need a new stylist. ( obviously that is just scratching the surface and is not the fundamental problem.)
A lot if effort in to being negative, many people like the pattern, many dont as with all patterns. Re the uncorroborated comments, dont comment. I think everyone has a right to comment but fair comment can point things out and then people can decide
I think Tilly has done the beginner patterns to the natural finishing point. I think rhe rime has come.formjer to start doing more.difdicultnpattwens..she can,and shouldnomthink, continue wirh her very good instructions. It seems to me that's she thew somethung simpl and chucked it out.
Sorry very hard to hear
fat sewers only? thin people can see that these pant do not fit the model. Multiple fittings are necessary for most of us. Very few people are going to o match the pattern size exactly. 😢Tilly missed the mark completely on this one.
Is anyone else getting the feeling that they think that a bigger person's aesthetic is "I am fat, I don't need prints and vibrant colors, just give me something boring, washed out and simple, because who cares"?
Yes absolutely agree with you 100%. Not sure if it’s what they think we want to wear or what they want to see us wearing 😅🙈🙄❤️
As a larger sewer, I would NEVER buy this pattern, just based on the photos. It also makes me doubt that TATB has any interest in selling to the larger sewing public. Very disappointing.
It was a mistake.. If they said something else you would find fault with their words or tone.. We all make mistakes. EVERYONE
I agree that the pants on the larger model do not look well-fitting. They should not have used that photo and should have fitted the pants to the model before the photo shoot. Their response to the criticism isn't great either, for all the reasons you stated.
I've never felt the desire to purchase a pattern from TATB and this is one of the reasons why. The company does not cater to the larger sizes, but why should they? No pattern designer "owes" any "community" a right to their pattern design. This is entitled thinking and I despise it. It forces everyone to the lowest common denominator. It ignores the value of rising to the top through hard work and letting diversity of talent shine. We should be glad all pattern designers are not the same. It makes the world better, not worse.
There is creativity that goes into making patterns and the creator should feel free to create for anyone they choose without getting bullied into making something they don't want to make. Sure, they could get more money and respect as a company if they made for a broader range of sizes, but more money or respect isn't always the goal.
I'd rather have two pattern companies that care about my needs as a larger (much much larger) person than all of them carelessly making patterns in my size.
It takes a completely different set of drafting rules to make patterns for large sizes. Fat distribution on the body varies widely and even more so the larger you get. It's impossible to make a pattern in larger sizes that's going to fit most everyone. Even the fat sewists know this. That's why we really appreciate it when they give advise on how to alter the patterns.
Maybe you'd get better quality pattern drafting if you didn't bully pattern designers to make more sizes than they want to make. Stop being so offended that someone doesn't cater to you and appreciate the wide range of options we have and the group of good people trying to help each other create clothing they love to wear. Encourage pattern companies to expand their sizes and refrain from insulting them if they choose not to.
I will not purchase any patterns from Tilly and the Buttons. I believe extended sizes deserve design tweaks that make the garment fit correctly. It isnt just about making straight size bigger. I am in a mid-size but will not support this company based on their tone deafness and denial of obvious issue.
I personally don't like the fact that you, wonderful lady, keep saying FAT instead of plus sized. I've never heard it used this much before yet I can tell you mean no harm.
It's *extremely* commonly used in the sewing community on IG. It was reclaimed years ago when the subject of size inclusivity in patterns came to the forefront. For so long the label "fat" had been used as a slur with moral judgement undertones. Many larger sewists now use it as a statement of fact divorced from any judgement.
You say that you are not directing any of this negativity towards the model however I strongly disagree, I think you are. While I might think the model looks slightly uncomfortable (my opinion) I certainly would not say so because she may think that she looks awesome (her opinion?) and now people are pointing out how her pants look awful on her. How rude. I personally would feel attacked if everyone was saying I looked horrible in some outfit, whether it fit me to a T or not.
One would think that if the model thought she looked great, it would show... unless TATB decided against using all the photos where she actually looks happy and comfortable.
I think models are fully aware that they are there to showcase the product and that any reference to how unfortunate the clothing is or how uncomfortable they look is not a personal judgement, but rather a judgement on the clothes and/or the person who chose those clothes for them. She's clearly a beautiful woman.
I am starting to be tired of companies going woke all of the sudden. If you don't know how to draft patterns for plus size people, either learn it or don't bother, don't do something half ar*e. You don't have to have all relevant races in your ads and so on. Don't like promoting obesity either.
Looking at the picture of the plus size trousers know one should buy that plus size pattern. This is terrible people pay a lot of money for these patterns. Tilly and the Buttons does not seem to really care about the plus size woman. Those trousers look awful.
The sewing community has a nasty spirit hiding behind the “lovely” facade.
@@SewinginSwitzerland I was saddened to recently notice some unpleasantries from such a diverse, global and generous community
The photo is awful, the fabric is a horrible colour and the pattern clearly doesn't fit. I saw it before I realised there was all this controversy and thought, HELL no! What in God's name are they thinking? Fat people will pay for, and sew anything and just be grateful to have something to wear?? Fabrics not that cheap either, I'd have been so angry if I wasted my time and money on that pattern. It should never have made it past quality contol. It's insulting.
I did not like this pattern as,going on the photos it did not look,"right".Whatever size you are there seemed to be problems.However,I have seen this in many other pattern companies.The photos of the plus size model were because of the fit,maybe they needed to go up a size.All sewers seem to have had a problem with the top gaping.I was wondering whether Tilly had changed her pattern drafters. I am a plus size person and found you continually saying "fat"annoying and insulting.Not all plus size people are fat or overweight as your terminology seems to suggest.People should not,in this age,be saying thin people,medium or,worst,normal or fat people We are all people our size should only be relevant to buying a pattern that fits us.Whether you use numbers,letters or made-up terms it is measurements that matters.If you actually look at the measurements of patterns as they go up to sizes 32 the measurements are inconsistent between companies,whatever your size.Some sizes are not as varied as they would have you believe.Home sewers seem to be expected to be pattern drafters when there should be minimum changes needed to make a pattern fit not a complete redraft,whatever your size.As for the foldline I think what they have achieved for sewers is amazing.I do not like their explanation of sizes as fruit.I think the overall problem is as companies rush to change the historically size terminology of xxs, xs ,s, m ,l, xl, xxl xxxl to be seen as acceptable, especially for larger sizes, they are coming up with a range of confusing terms.Indie patterns are expensive and do not it always give value for money.Pattern companies are now churning out patterns often with little difference as we sewers have been pulled into the idea that we need the newest patterns.I would suggest really looking at the patterns and the ones you own before buying again.Some of the pattern companies you have suggested have also had some dreadful photos on their covers and repeats of similar designs. Basically,I would say look at the pattern body measurements,better the finished measurements and that includes the height and ease in a pattern.
I don't use the F- word. Fat. Plus Size seems better.
Plenty of larger sewists use the term "fat sewist/sewer" as a way of reclamation. The argument is that the word "fat" is simply a descriptive term rather than a negative term with judgement attached to it.
@@shonaaitken7635 maybe it's reclamation, but I don't think you can get away from the negative connotation. The word invokes play yard bully. That's just my opinion. If you struggled with your weight your whole life, the last thing you want to be called is a fat sewer, but things change, new ideas, new meanings of words..etc....
@@dellajean4876 As you say, we are all welcome to our opinions. I have no issue referring to myself as that. For me it takes away all of the "sting" of that word. A sort of "Yes I am fat. So what?". But am not forcing anyone else to use that term about themselves. Rather I was supporting the use of it as common in the fat/plus size/larger bodied sewing community, and explaining why I believe it is :)
So TATB got it wrong!
As long as they learn from this and make adjustments for future reference and do more research before producing and distributing the patterns.
Don't think the picking apart line by line of the statement is particularly helpful or necessary and I dont agree with the percieved viewpoint by 'Sewing from switzerland' especially as she has not had a conversation with them directly to respond to her perceptions. A very Biased viewpoint from a person who keeps calling people FAT or FAT SEWIST! rather than plus size or larger or more shapely Ladies. How rude!
I think we just need to encourage pattern makers to continue to produce patterns for all shapes & sizes but give more attention to the their needs with regard to fitting. Not sure why this individual is so very highly critical of TATB going on about her business and company, it is very negative. Maybe Sewing from Switzerland should get educated and run her own business and produce patterns for marginalised groups? Put your money where your mouth is comes to mind!