Tank Pugging Tierlist From a Healer Main
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- I wanted to throw a tier list together, but for tanks it was hard. All the tanks are great right now when played by a master! But what if you were pugging? How do they stack up when the quality of the player is seemingly random? As a healer, I wanted to provide my opinion. And it is biased, which is why I want to hear how all of you feel in the comments! With a complimentary tier list for next season and meta tanks for season 4!
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From a bear, I'll explain the Iron Fur thing. Post rework and S2 tier set, Maul/Raze became a huge part of the rotation. A bear in Incarn would often press Mangle-Raze-repeat, only keeping thrash up for the rage he would get from blood frenzy.
This made their damage great, and is quite fun, however it often leads to neglecting Iron Fur, because it costs rage too, limiting the Razes you can spend on. If you have a big enough pull, where your rage was nearly limitless, no problem, but if not, then Iron Fur is a dps loss.
Combine this with Maul/Raze providing self shielding through Ursoc's Fury, and spamming all your rage into them feels really good. (frankly in raids you can basically negate using Iron Fur at all with enoguh maul spam).
What you are seeing is bears trying to do the most dps they can, and especially now when rage is not infinite anymore, bears are prioritizing dps over survival, expecting the healer to pick up the slack.
A quick way of figuring out if the type of bear you are playing with will be like this is to see if he is using Thorns of Iron. If he took that talent, chances are he will at least keep up Iron Fur.
You’re a legend for this thank you so so so much!
@@Bowserthehealer You're welcome. Always nice to see this from the healer's POV. I alsmost exclusively play tanks, so I rarely see the othe side.
I think to add to this, some streamers promoting bad habits to players (e.g. macroing ironfur to certain abilities) or players hitting wrong abilities (e.g. swiping way too much instead of using GCDs for rage generators or Maul/Raze) would catch them off guard when they don't have IF up or just not having enough rage in general
@@edpham2727 This may be true, I don't watch alot of bear streamers.
I absolutely love how you approach this. Unlike other content creators who simply copy paste from sims, you are giving people information based off of experience, and perspective, and you take into account player's knowledge of the class. This is information that is 100% missing from 90% of the videos on wow content. I run Brewmaster and the other main tank in my guild is Blood DK. We laugh at the tier lists because knowledge of the class wins out 100% of the time.
As a brew main I appreciate you saying it’s your favorite it definitely makes me feel good when my friends get other brews when I’m not playing and talk about how bad they are at the spec, you can definitely fall over if you’re not keeping shuffle up and keeping fire on everyone lol
"Its the worst, but its also the best. Its my least favorite, but at the same time I love it, but I absolutely hate it!" - Bowser
This summarizes my feelings so accurately LMAO
There a prot paladin weak aura i highly recommend that turns red every time your not standing in your consecration. Comes in handy with all the movement involved in M+,
Its true wat you say about Druids. Earlier this season I was in a everbloom dpsing and notice how the tanks health is dropping every pull. Our healer also comments that he is hard to heal. Turns out at the end of the run they had 90 sec of uptime on ironfur over the course of a 25min run. Needless to say they got a lecture from the group that their ironfur up time needed to be better. The bigger surprise was how receptive to the advise they were.
Please direct me to that weak aura
The VDH section was hilarious because it’s literally my healer friend in a nutshell. If I’m not tanking keys and he’s playing with a bad vdh or even a moderate one that stays alive but he’s putting in extra work, I just get spammed with texts “when are you coming online”
Are you sure it isn’t me lol, I do that to my VDH friends lol
on my bear, i litterally have my iron fur macroed into thrash and swipe so i don't ever have to worry about it, is it optimal no, is it always up yes
My bear tank is my favorite tank to pug with, not because they're super good, but because Dream of Cenarius and Nature's Vigil mean I can really help the healer out with spot heals or group heals in a big pull. I think a good bear can carry a group with a mediocre healer.
Great points and I appreciate the healers perspective!
love the content Bowser
Ehhhh! As a Brewmaster main it's a great feeling when my healers mention how cozy the run is despite my breakneck pace.
VDH being so focused on debuffs as defensives definitely can confuse players that are unfamiliar with VDH. I wouldn't be surprised to see people blow both their sigil of flames at the start of a pull and then 10 seconds later they're wondering why they're taking so much damage when half their parry chance is gone. I definitely think VDH could use some nerfs utility-wise, but I don't know how you do it without either greatly increasing the cooldown of Sigils of Silence, Chains, and Misery and/or removing the second sigil charge on Illuminated Sigils and making that talent feel really bad as a cap stone.
Why is it bad as a capstone with only flame sigil 2 charges?, it interacts with all the other talents and still gives 15% parry. That’s on par with most other tanks capstones. Look at bloodDK. Besides purgatory you get minor increases to ST dmg, a terrible on use in bonestorm and a bit of survival in AOe pulls. Wouldn’t call those incredible either.
@@normannseils3936 I think you misunderstood me. What I was talking about was Blizzard removing the second charge from every sigil. I think it would be fine as a capstone if it just gave an extra charge of Sigil of Flames on top of the 15% parry. It would still be able to compete with the other choice in the node, Down in Flames.
On another note, I do wish Blizz would do a better job with the talent tree capstones. Capstones should have a greater impact on the gameplay of a class and a lot of the current capstones don't do that. It would be cool if BDK or any other class had a capstone that was as gameplay defining as Illuminated Sigils.
VDH is just stupid amount of CC. What kills keys for me is not the tanks dying rather the dps or healer falling over. Interrupt is king for high m+
Me as a Guardian cant match it and i really feel that people are used to play with VDHs doing all the work for them so they just dont interrupt
Survivability on VDH is fine but they need even morr cc nerf, its just too much
Capstone talents? Look at the Guardian tree, half of the Druid shit we have to take is completely useless😮
As a VDH tank since last expansion I believe we got too much control and we pretty much heal ourselves so well. Knowing how to rotate defensives like have demon spikes in between devo and fiery brand and using meta when you don't have any big defensive or if you know that you are doing a big pull to put fiery brand on targets as you are going into a pull to spread a bit saves your life and the healer stress. I also play Blood DK and love the control I have with grippy hands and tricks on controlling certain mobs to help in the dungeon is nice to know as well. I do only tank 21s and 23s but I stopped there so I am not doing too high of keys. I do think that you were spot on for tanks for this season and I always thought being a blood DK it must be hard for new healers that as a blood DK I really don't need heals that much at all and yes my health goes for 100 to 30 percent but I am in the middle of a CD so I am fine but they will external me anyway 🤣. Anyway thanks for the video that was good
A bit of a side, your holy priest video helped get me motivated to level a priest. Was mostly holy for pugs, and need to practice disc more but hit 2k last night!
pushed to 2.7k or so last season after long break since SL season 2, as a blood tank, and i can 100% attest to that
when you aren't good with blood, you FEEL it.
but when you start to get the hang of it you feel like a god sometimes.
i will try to play brew this patch for a personal challenge and i loved brew in Legion, so let's see how much i'm gimping myself :D
The button bloat is REAL
as main brewmaster since WoD and offspec WW, I would say druid healers are usually best for me imo, you just cant get lower with hp than 90%, everything staggered is instantly healed by HotS and of course they can keep up with monk movement which is also great for pushing keys, but it is just my opinion. Nice video, good to see some other perspective of tanks because usually everybody does ranking "how good is X Tank", not how good is to play with that class :)
Im not sure about othe guardian druids but i find that without incarn or a trinket or something threat can be an issue in some pug groups so i often need to use rage on maul or raze at the start of pulls, though that might not be the case for someone who has the fyrakk trinket
I usually find that tossing in a swipe after a thrash on pull actually helps a lot with aoe threat. It's instant damage, unlike the thrash. Similarly a spirit bomb is better for getting threat than a sigil of flame on veng
I main a prot warrior and use a very unorthodox talent setup & play style. For instance I take both heroic throw talents to give me perfect snap threat on 6 mob groups. I also only use revenge to spread deep wounds & reset shield slam. Spamming revenge is a minor damage increase at the cost of high ignore pain uptime. Especially since ignore pain doesn’t count towards the 85% DR. I also take the bolster talent which makes Last Stand 2 min as well as giving 15s of block. This gives me 100% block uptime.
While it sounds crazy I also take 2nd wind because if I get a bad healer I can use piercing howl to kite so 2nd wind can heal me up or use the Fyrakk trinket to proc it to heal me back up. I like not being completely healer reliant.
when u mentioned a VDH infernal striking into the packs in Brackenhide Hollow season 2, i jiggled, cuz thats was the last thing a VDH should do and it only shows that this VDH had no clue how to play the spec. At least in s2. It was all about pre-spreading fiery brand before letting mobs even touch you :)
This was how it was explained to me, or you walk in and fel dev so you can be damn near unkillable then spread. Where are people like you in my keys T.T
Interesting vid! Have you considered hiding your healing and damage numbers in the mid of the screen / on players? Makes it look so much cleaner 👌
No, because I am literally looking for those numbers sometimes. Its a part of my process, a clean UI is dope but I want those numbers there!
great video, but im a bit confused about your tiers in the personal preference part. you say your favorites are brew and bdk and in the section about them both you say that they are non existent when not played well and then the 2nd tier is "good but rough when bad"
Isn't that exactly what you said about both tanks you've got at 1?
I should have clarified. It’s possible to carry a brew and easier than some tanks. But there is this tipping point where they just can’t live. And that’s honestly preferable because nothing sucks more than a DH killing it in a dark heart and then the tree grabs them out of meta and they explode. The brew wouldn’t make it that far not knowing defensives on a high enough key. Same with blood. So you know part way in they are pretty good. Every tank can still mess up and die, I don’t have much control over that minus the parts the healer is needed. And of all the tanks, brew and DK have given me the best turnouts. So I lean towards them frequently
So for guardian druid, im learning.... I hear people talk about "iron fur stacks" but when I look at the buff, I never see any numbers or anything indicating that it's stacking. Does it work differently or am I missing something?
You should be able to see another number next to it, indicating you stacked it 2,3,4 etc times. Check your armor, see if it keeps going up when you theoretically stack it 2-3 times!
was surprised to learn that all tanks almost don't need healers anymore. I used to love playing blood dk but finally bear tanks don't feel like trash to me, they are fun to play. I just hate when I accidentally hit the wrong button & leave bear form (terrible, I know). oh & moonfire cleave seems slightly buggy sometimes. blood dk play style seems worse nowadays. marrowrend is really annoying to use + is a DPS loss. I much prefer the common tank abilities that make you tanky when they are not on the global CD. what a cancer fotm is to so many! as a resto shaman idc which tank as i'm the demon hunter of healers.
Id say youre pretty spot on from a returning characters perspective, I was raiding in Cata as a prot tank and i felt it was very easy to stay alive even with terrible heals. I stopped playing around the time BFA came out, but i was Fury at that point as i just got sick of tanking and the hatred that can come with it. fast forward to like a month ago, i picked up my warrior again and quickly realized i barely saw ANY prot wars. So i pursued Bear tank, i will say that bear feels a bit more beefy, especially from a health aspect and damage mitigation. I picked up prot again this past week as hes a bit better geared and well my OG character from vanilla, so hes got alot of sentimental value to me, did some very basic research and talent specing and such. As prot we have like 2 PHYSICAL damage mitigations. I tanked Normal Amidrassil, and on the first boss encounter my health depleted VERY quickly. My mistake i didnt have shield wall up. Amazing heals kept me alive, Fast forward to later bosses, and im doing better but still struggling to really maintain health, even with shield wall and ignore pain with shield slam proc macro'd. Keep in mind im also staying in Defensive stance, untill i learn the spec again. I feel like VDH is severly over charged with damage mitigation and frankly i feel like the tanks should be more or less all on the same level in that regard. Sure let the bear have the added healing procs, let the VDH have the more CC and manuevarbility. But theres no reason that i should be falling as quickly as i do and feel Blizz has kind of nerfed prot a bit to much, after they are supposed to be immovable mountains that laugh death in the face. Any way thats my take on it. oh also our magic mitigation spells need to have a SIGNIFICANT reduction in cooldowns, or a slight increase in duration for say Spell reflection. 5 secs is laughable at best in my opinion.
If you take any relevant physical damage (non bleed) on protW you are doing it wrong frankly. The only problem of Protwarrior are dots of any kind (which there are a lot in amirdrassil). The biggest learning curve on protW is what you can block and what not. Use your CDs accordingly and you are good. Survival is not prots problem for sure.
as someone who almost exclusively plays all tanks except BDK (dont like the gameplay) i can say youre mostly correct. Im at 3.3k with my vdh and i can say sometimes it isnt just the tank thats the problem if he is falling over.
I did first pull in TotT 25 and pulled the whole hallway. and i died even though i did close to 300k hps and had my defensives up and as soon as i didnt have any cc left i died bc none of the DDs or the healer was using any cc whatsoever. But yh i also play my monk and pally as a healer and alot of tanks dont know how to rotate their def cds or their mitigation.
I want to say that I agree with you 100% about protection warrior when I first got started I did not use shield blocking and ignore pain luckily in my guild there was people to help me get better now I have more of my guild mates asking me. Can I please tank because they know I’m going to be able to handle it there have been many times that healers, love working with me because I can say take care of the DPS. I see a problem I will throw out a rally and they focus on them so thank you for bringing it up. I have seen it way too many times including me with shield block
Bdk main here who went pres for end of s3 and now in S4. I've never cared for Brewmasters until I had to heal one and now I'm considering learning it after seeing how durable they are when I heal the.
I have played all the tanks this expo as alts but I main Prot Warr. Everything you said is pretty spot on. I do wish they'd mess with Brewm. They have too many buttons and too many niche defensives on medium long cooldowns. Brewm flows really well outside of CD usage. I hope they get some love and I hope warr gets something for bleeds. I shouldnt have to race change to shortking to clear my bleeds.
For VDH, just play one point into feed the demon. Spam demon spikes as often as possible during trash and Fel dev for tank busters. Constantly spend soul shards as fast as possible and never over cap on them. You now have a solid base of VDH. Also read the talents you have selected, helps a lot too.
I chuckled at "read the talents" LOL, so many players dont. But as someone who is leveling a DH ill make sure to read that one over. I've heard the soul shard bit, but thank you for the insight!
Average pug player "what does read mean?" lol
Yeah, the Preservation - Brewmaster synergy is just perfection. Whenever the brew is struggling, you just know Golden Hour is going to pop them for a third of their hp and stabilize things almost on its own.
The unfortunate part is that while keeping a brew up is a breeze, the rest of the group tends to take a lot more random damage than when running with a decent Paladin or VDH. And in the end, I find the random spikes on dps (due to more casts going off) to be more difficult to deal with overall.
Ahhhh, as a tank that pugs alot, this will hopefully be very interesting.
When I tank, I always bear. Druid and shaman are probably my favorite classes. As druid, I mainly play cat in raiding but usually main bear in dungeons and outer play. Also,
Bears use Raze. Raze = more damage.
IF use = less Raze = less damage.
there's the problem. =D
like, way before it was, Maul = wasted rage = always press IF
and the later it was IF + ToI spam on mouse wheel = Burrr so IF is always pressed for for both maxed broken dps and max armor.
prob back to a stable Raze = always use and press IF if you notice HP starting to drop or know the mobs are heavy Physical abilities.
Bdk/bear main, but I like to flex into some healers every few months. And oh my God it's so tilting trying watching a bear or prot just refuse to use their active mitigation, whilst dropping massive CDs for every 3 mob pull just to live. Tilts me so hard I switch back to tank 😅
As a bear/blood tank in season 2, learning veng for season 3 m+ was interesting... To me, veng initially felt more like a dps spec than a tank spec. It was difficult to develop a feel for when I was safe (which meant that it was also hard to feel when I wasn't ok). Over time I started to develop the intuition, but it really takes a bit of trial and error to get that feel. There were lots of times that I was that DH who would leap in and immediately die. It would take a second to look at what I still had available as I was running back to realize that this time I forgot to hit spikes or spirit bomb or maybe I needed to meta as I pulled because I was otherwise going to be naked...
It is basically a dps/tank spec, keeping up with frailty means you self heal yourself more. Also you almost always dont wanna leap in a pack even with defensives, those few hits being away from ground leaves you defenseless and you get all raw damage from it (e.g crits)
I play bear and prot warrior and then, like you, all the healers. tbh bear and warrior is just the blight of bad players. shield block is a dps gain and ignore pain is so op people just spam revenge like its bfa and fall over. bear is the same story. maul/raze are great spells to weave in, but two stacks of iron fur on aoe is minimum needed and super easy to keep up being off the gcd.
Wait wait wait, was revenge super strong in BFA? Maybe thats why I see people using it more than shield block and slam. Because I know it as a sad damage move that is useful for early threat. But I sorta dont like pressing it unless I have to. If so, its just legacy knowledge killing people? D:
As a tank and mostly maining Monk and Druid i like and can agree with your rating that's about how i feel about tanks right now only difference i think BDK and Monk should be swapped in ranking personally and i like that warrior idea and if monk could get a but more utility that would be nice and for VDH if they just make sigil of silence a touch longer like sigil of misery but not touch anything else on them it would help that way they are a little less OP and just give Monk and warrior better utility and DK a little better damage mitigation so they are not always in danger of a 1 shot lol
Nice interessting Video. I only play healers and 2 Tanks (goofin' around on my ret pala sometimes)... brew and guardian.
From my healerperspective i agree with you in brew. They are easy to heal most of the time cause the most brew players seems to be really dedicated to their class.
I disagree on BDK. Here it depends so heavily on the player. I had some really nervbreaking runs with BDKs. Some of them are not able to build up runic power and cant heal themself. But a good played BDK is rly solid.
I love Guardians. They are rly solid and easy to heal. But i agree with the ironfur thing. I dont know why, but some players just dont press it... and I cannot understand. You skill into Thorns of Iron for sure in every build so you do good dmg and mitigation with one Button. The actual tierset maybe isnt as strong as last season, but if you time it right or combine Rage of the Sleeper with Incarn, you can build up a very strong absorb shield. In S4 Guardians get their S2 Set again and will be even stronger.
Protpal is similar to BDK for me. Good played = Powerhouse. Bad played = horrible.
Maybe Pal and BDK are more punishing on mistakes, idk.
Prowarriors are very soldi to me, the most time. And I hate VDH 😄. Lots of them overdo the fast pace jumping away stuff. Nothing wrong with that. But they should be able to keep themselfs alive if they constantly out of range.
All I wrote is from a puggin perspective in the 20-23 range. So not the highest keys, but enough for me.
The problem with BDK is it punishes mistakes, but not in the moment (if you don’t count standing in avoidable damage). You might Fall behind runes for Boneshield or Runicpower is you waste either and overcap. But often you will be punished half a minute later and can’t recover without help. Very rough said obviously.
@@normannseils3936 thanks for the insights. Apprieciate it. I got no clue on BDK.
@@wallywest3931 I don’t know about everyone but from the blood DKs that I am seeing (that are not myself or other high key DKs) very few prio mastery. Mastery is kind of a counterbalance to the fact that you can’t avoid overcapping/wasting RP. It „converts“ The healing of deathstrike (even overhealing) into a big shield. That way you build up tankyness even if you are not seemingly damage. With enough mastery you basically have 2 bars worth of HP. Especially in season 4 (reaching 80-90% mastery) your actual HP bar is more or less a backup if you fall behind. You should hover over 100% HP most of the time, as weird as it sounds. That’s Lao why BDK prio DR from healers and not actual healing. The saying: they are immortal if they don’t die applies at all ranges of play. On the opposite any debuff from a mob that increases dmg taken is very problematic (flowers EB, sentinels ToTt). TLDR Incan recommend for healers to track RP and total absorbs from BDK (and at least dancing runeweapon). If these 3 are down and low you should give the blood external or healing to bridge the gap.
I've gotten 4 healers up over 3k this season, and pushing 27's on my holy priest. Pugging, yeah- this is pretty accurate. I feel like you can tell a good tank this season from when theyre gathering up mobs in waycrest manor this season. Pulling mobs from the pig boss room to outside, some tanks will just die while doing so, or be fine. I've encountered so many bear druids that I felt the gap in tyr rise keys on deios and struggled on mana even as a holy priest pumping into the tank. The higher the key gets, you encounter "VDH gap" with its CC its kinda crazy. DHT get people wiping to the fear lazer bois and saying "GG, no VDH" cause of lack of CC or overlapped etc.
I've also played prot warrior up to +25 keys this season with a side of arcane mage aswell. Prot warr definently isnt hard but I think the big gap I can feel is defensive stance vs battle stance. Sometimes I'll accidentally be in battle stance and I can FEEL that 20% gap. Stances are vital but I feel like some bad prot warriors ontop of shield block and stuff can result in some mistakes theyre not even aware of. (accidentally being on battle stance in keys they shouldnt be in, making them harder to heal even with proper mits)
Yes you basically use Battlestance for a slight DMG boost and not the other way around.
@@normannseils3936 Yeah. I know. I'm saying I've seen prot warriors who dont even really care for their stance, and sometimes stay in battle stance entire time. etc.
man, i get it, VDH is "good players play better" spec
I can answer the question about why some bears don't press iron fur. Part of it does come down to just not knowing better, but for the higher end players they've said that they maximize their tier bonus by not pressing iron fur so their blazing thorns do more damage. I played like this for a bit too, but it drove me nuts seeing my health bar pop up and down just for (what I thought) was a few k more damage.
Just to dispell that myth, from what I noticed if you run thorns of iron it does the same damage as you spamming raze. Your group does better when you do better.
Oh lordie..... so, no, if you're playing bear well ToI will absolutely NOT do as much damage as a proper Raze build, but it is WAY more survivable. ToI is a way to get some damage out of having to spam Iron Fur, but if your damage is anywhere close to what you can do with Raze, you played Raze poorly.
Alternate Raze and Mangle with VC and you can do some absolutely bonkers damage. This behavior of not using Iron Fur is a product of S2 tier, not S3. S2 tier made Raze 20% stronger, and we have infintie rage.
Now we lost the infinite rage, but people are still trying to play like S2. Prepare to see alot more of it come S4.
I'm learning so much from all the replies yall, ty ty
Yeah, we're spoiled rotten. We have a DH in guild that hates tanking in raids, but loves tanking in M+. He's an absolute GOD in M+, and can dance on a knife's edge. Getting a pug tank after having him in M+ is really rough.
Its awful going from a legend to a rando pug T.T
the problem with brew players is they think they are supposed to pull like a vdh and things easily go haywire
So the problem is pulling with VDH is not how it supposed to be.
Playing VDH since end of BfA and now that he is Meta its so crazy how many dogshit dh tanks there are it just baffles me. Started healing on evoker this season and its naaaah Pug healing on evoker feels so fucking bad in low 20s the higher you get it kinda gets better but i still think evoker thrives in 5 stacks
I’m bdk since WOd. I tried others but am happiest and comfy as bdk
Ah yes, prot warrior too has a bubble
The problem with most BDK players is they have no idea how to tank M+ (talents, starts and gear). Yea there are hard pull that make you ping pong, there is no way around it. But if their health moves much in an average pull they are not playing correctly
When I play on my priest, I prefer either prot pally or bear due to brez
When I play on my hpal, I don't mind cause I feel more durable
I hate bdks, cause they always seem to proc Purgatory very often
I don't like brews, cause I try so hard to keep them alive
And of course I 've come across bad bears and prot pallies that have low uptime on ironfur/sotr.
Overall I would vote for prot pal,bear cause they can handle afflicted and have off-heals.
Unfortunately I 've seen so so few prot warriors,but all of them were super good!
If your BDK a proccing purg very often outside of keys over 27 it’s not the class, it’s the players believe me.
watching this video makes me want to play tank lol
I had a run where my tank had 19% shield block uptime and I felt the need to penance key a prof warrior key as like protection for future pugs it hurt so bad to heal that LOL
DH tanks are the ones i hate to heal the most
Meanwhile I’m tanking 23+ keys without falling over on vengeance dh and mostly using fel dev as dps XD. Healers have 0 issues with keeping me up
I feel like 80% of Prot Paladins are bad. Just like how you often have Rets that pump damage but take more aggro than the mobs
And their kit is SO loaded, its tough
Personally as a healer main easing into low-mid M+ keys as a relatively new WoW player, I find that skill floor is king when it comes to how much I like healing with certain tanks.
Prot Warrior I like because they don't believe in taking damage, and when they do, its gradual enough that I see it coming.
Prot Pally is sort of the same, but far more susceptible to exploding if they let their shield/Consecration drop, usually they just hit whatever buttons are glowing and are fine.
Guardian Druid is also up there for me. They just have to slap Ironfur whenever they get rage and Frenzied Regen whenever they take too much, and they are usually ignorable so I can heal the DPS that's standing in fire.
Blood DK is my middle of the road. I give them 2-3 packs worth of pulls to watch the game of ping pong that is their health bar to gauge their skill, then decide if I can ignore them for 90% of the key to heal classes that can actually die or if I'm going to be clocking in for overtime as they blow their Runic Power 3 seconds into a pull and now have Plate armor, my healing, and a dream to survive the next 10 seconds before they can generate more.
Brewmaster and Vengeance Demon are my least favorite, because they take a lot of skill and knowledge to play decently. When there is a good one, they can be almost as easily ignored as Blood DK or Guardian. If they suck, you can also ignore them, because the only thing they'll be tanking is the floor, and somehow its healer diff when they die faster than a GCD because they were saving their defensives for a "real emergency", as we all know death isn't really an emergency
Now I've capped out at 22 keys because I just got bored of the dungeons, so maybe that's changing my perspective. But as someone who's tanked as Druid, DK, DH and Pala (in that order chronologically) this season, hearing "bear has ... the crowd control" made me go "what?!". The only time I ever thought "I wish I was on my bear RN" was because it was the highest geared. For every other there was some form of CC they had that I missed on another tank. Warr was my tank of choice in S1 (skipped S2), and back then I also dabbled a tiny bit in Monk, and of all the tanks I definitely feel that when it comes to CC, bear feels the absolute worst, by far. Even though I will always keep playing it, cause I live for resto in raid. Keeping those nice GoC procs to help out and having that innervate when needed is nice some nice utility. But I feel like, it does not make up for things like DK grips, DH's sigil spam, or Pala's shields flying everywhere, all the time.
Also mobility wise it feels *rough*, even though DKs are slow for combat less tracks, Death's Advance ignoring forced movement is brilliant. Paladin's horse even though short is a really nice boost, and the DH, Warr and Monk, just feel brilliant in their own unique ways when it comes to movement.
Pug healing tier list, go! -)
Blizz needs to make bears as op as they were in s2 rework so they can knock VDH out the top spot
In season 4 they are almost as powerful (outside of very bIg pulls) and arguably better in normal pulls after the changes. But that’s not the problem. VDH Utility is the problem, and it’s dmg to some degree.
@normannseils3936 It's damage for sure but they hit druids survivability big time with the huge Ursoc nerf and they had nerfed the damage. If they reverted all that back to s2. Bears would be able to do larger pulls, more damage and better survivability than VDH. Bears health bar never dropped whatsoever and VDH at least still does
@@Boss-ot1iy Whats the obzession with broken tanks? Just have every one be viable
Interestingly, I just searched a bunch of threads on this topic this week. Almost every one came to the opposite conclusion. Sure, DKs are self sufficient, but their constant health bounce scares pug healers. Monks are ok, but don't have the stops/utility like DH/Pal.
But in the end, whatever the current meta at the top .1% is will determine how folks view things (right or wrong).
Brewmaster utility is strong. Ring of Peace is amazing for sanguine weeks, they can detox on afflicted, instant cast paralysis on incorp (unlike paladin who has to cast and drop defense while casting). They have the AoE stops as well. The only thing they miss from VDH is silence/chains but gain a lot more The group phys damage buff, healing and avoidance passives are really great too. I don't think there is a big a difference in stops/utility as you are implying. All monk specs contribute well no matter what the affixes are, it's just a shame they don't bring a brez or lust.
If you don’t want to be scared of BDK track their RP and absorbs not their health. If both are low they need attention.
@@normannseils3936 I agree, I mained a healer this season and had no issues myself.
But it's perception and how the majority of healers see things in pugs.
Brewmaster just feels like a crippled BDK with threat issues now. Stagger may as well not be there, it's all celestial brew and healing orbs, and unless I obsessively spam keg smash above all else, instantly and always, including neglecting utility buttons and defensives, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I can keep aggro against these spastic degenerate dps who pop CDs and burst a million dps the instant mobs target me, and fuck me and my plans or thoughts on how to set up a more elaborate pull than ZUGZUGZUGZUG. I've been a brew main for years, topping out at 3,2k in shadowlands, but it's benched now as playing it would just get me banned because I'd eventually snap and get abusive in chat.
That’s a problem in pugs always if you are not a protpally throwing shields around. Tell them beforehand to pay attention to threat and that you’ll leave if the are reckless. This way it’s in their hand how well it goes.
Respect for knowing when to walk away.
I’m gonna guess before I watch this video. VDH. Ok on to watch the video
I'm really looking forward to your answer because all you said was VDH, and they are def in there LOL