I don’t think I’ve had as much fun as I am now with my balance Druid. Running around like a fuzzy chicken just absolutely annihilating mobs is fantastic
As a mage main who has been playing mage since MoP, the 10.2 version of arcane the most complicated mage spec that I have ever seen. That being said, it is hilarious to watch pro arcane mages demolish 5 people at once in BGS (im lookin at AlunethMaster)
As a die hard arcane player, it’s nice to see the spec be both as good as it is right now and as gatekept by skill as it is lmao. Feels rewarding to already be in love with a spec and willing to master it where others struggle and just play frost
Can I just say that this game has a massssssssssive problem with screen clutter. I literally cannot fathom new players wanting to start playing. And I know its addons but still, when most streamers screens look like this its so off-putting
Looking at the rotations on icy-veins is like a slap to the face that you spent your money on such complex gameplay as well. I’d like to find a casual friendly rotation where I don’t feel bad that I’ve not had hours of time to spend in front of a training dummy, but still wanna do group play. If screen bloat from “required” add-ons is to blame for this. I’d almost be willing to ban add-ons themselves. Of course I’d hate myself if this actually came to be a thing.
It separates the men from the boys. Some learn and get the hang of it. some get mad go play Final fantasy 😂 It’s honestly how you want it and preference. I make mine clutter free and organized while being able to do 20+ mythics
I mean personally I understand why people do it, my screen has looked like that at some point. But from my experience showing WoW to lots of my friends, they all find it off putting.@@KieperTV
Trying to get into WOW and I agree. Just gonna go play classic and play casually. Way too much to learn to be an endgame sweat. ESO seemed much simpler for that.
I wish Blizzard would just fix armor. There are 4 types of armor between Cloth, Leather, Mail, and Plate. Mail is the 2nd strongest armor. Why are all the mail wearers among the 4 squishiest specs along with Priest? I know armor type is just a part of the fantasy at this point but it seems Blizzard chooses when and when not to use fantasy as a requirement in game decisions. These mail classes need more contribution from armor. Cloth: Mage --Good survivability Warlock -- Tanky Priest -- Squishy Leather: Druid -- Good Survivability Rogue -- Good Survivability Demon Hunters -- Squishy but good mitigation for survivability Monks -- Squishy but good mitigation for survivability Mail: Hunters -- Squishy Evokers -- Squishy Shaman -- Squishy Plate: Death Knights -- Good Survivability Paladins -- Tanky Warriors -- Good Survivability
I LOVE M+ Holy Priest even though it is not the best. It is pretty easy with lightweaver but the best build is a little harder. I would still put this in easy. I am 3200 only there are hpriests way better than I am who might say it is medium.
As a few others have said, a guide for each dungeon in 10.2 would be good, but do a beginner and advanced one for each dungeon. Something I've often found during various seasons is that many channels do a M+ dungeon guide, often based off of mid level PTR M+ runs, that go through dealing with mechanics at that level. These usually see players up to the KSM level. However once you get into the 16's and above range, suddenly certain mechanics that didn't need to be dealt with before become deadly due to the damage scaling at those higher level keys - but oftentimes none of the guides tell you how to deal with those situations. Unfortunately, certainly in PUGs, players simply expect you to know the strategies, and aren't always very helpful. Anecdotally, in the previous season, we had +3'd a 15 in a guild group, and got an 18 Shadowmoon Burial Grounds - being supposedly the easiest key we decided to try it, even if it was a "weekly no leaver" type run. The run went fine until the Nerzhul, where we just could get the Omen of Death mechanic down. We even stopped the watch some guides, but none of the ones we watched covered how to deal with it at that high a level. Suddenly a friend of the guild who we raided with hopped onto discord to chat, one of us started streaming to discord, and with one explanation from a guy who was regularly running 24's etc, we killed the boss first try - but pretty much nobody seems to do guides at that level.
I’ll give you a tip I’m not high pushing player I have around 2.8k rio as tank, but when you die to smth ath higher level just check what it was use mythic dungeon tool and read description of this spell and then check in google if there is post about it how to deal with mechanic and I would suggest watching sometimes high keys run around 20-22
I mean... buddy... You're talking about dodging shit on the ground, or not interrupting a spell. This is BASE GAME MECHANICS. I see it way too often even in 25+ keys, people can't do their job. Then who do you flame for dying? You often choose to flame the tank or healer. It's 99% of the times, a DPS issue, no matter how big the pull is. And for fuck's sake, pop a defensive at the start of a major pull.
Heals would be nice, and boomkin is crazy because you have to root solar beam sleep stun vortex cyclone and use besr form to not die and use your heals from time to time on others and its easy to accidently pull extra mobs. And it has a ton of buttons to hit, same as mage, just too many buttons and macros to be loysnof fun.
yeah wired that aff gets hard while being a dot class just the same but with passive tank instead of active, and less than half the cc they need to be on top of.
This video was nice! It’s satisfying to hear what’s hard and easy cause I have some friends who like to bag on specs that they think are so easy when they’re just so wrong
I go back and forth on Shadow Priest. On one hand, the core rotation is pretty simple without being boring, and the class is definitely a vibe. On the other hand, it feels like the spec relies too much on massive 30sec+ cooldowns to really do big damage, which is clunky and boring.
In 10.2 they have to redo a few specs as there is a lot of changes coming, and other changes blizzard is making to make what seems mythic+ even more harder. I'm just glade they moved away from pushing for add-ons, as I believe add-ons have made it seem a bit to easy, or easier, for most players.
Shadow is NOT hard at all once you learn the dungeons (which everyone will after 50+ runs). Very simple rotation, even more so than boomkins, and you just have to learn when to utility which is what you're there for. Affliction used to be hard to play in keys, but they dumbed it down a lot in 10.1.5. Now all you with the new build is put UA and Agony on a few targets and then spam seeds of corruption. No tracking tons of dots on everything anymore. I'd say demo is easier to play than destro, honestly, because you don't typically run anything complicated in keys (such as nether portal). And destro has to deal with rain of fire needing to ramp damage when many pug tanks love to kite out of it. (Like with ele shaman earthquake). Destro does do a lot more damage than demo though on average in m+.
Destru is easy, there is no setup. In M+ you drop infernal once in a while, rest of the time you immolate and spam RoF. Demo is that much more difficult, because you constantly need to play around maximizing Tyrant buffs if you want to top dmg. I absolutetly agree that shadow is easy - its should be labeled as such. Drop shadow crush and continue ST rotation, thats it.
For Shadow, disperse is NOWHERE near as effective for survival and escape as it was a decade ago. Frankly I use it more for a mana regen boost, on those occasions where I had to start spam flash healing to help in critical times (See the Larodar fight in Amirdrassil)
Fire mage is so perfect for my adhd, I’m never bored out and don’t forget to play, that’s why I play Enhancement as a melee and paladin as a tank, I need to stay busy for not losing focus
I agree, if you are playing balance correct, it would be much into the harder than being one of the first beginner, managing Starlord and Rattle buffs, pulling AP to reset 3 stack starlord, making sure everything is completely dotted (otherwise you do no damage), I have played a lot of other range classes and Boomkin is def not the easiest. Also, going into bear while it can save you, while you are in bear your doing no damage. Def one of the squisher range classes (and boomkin is my main), lastly its one of the only ramp range classes (afflication aside) so if those mobs die quick, you are always dead last on the meters.
Arcane mage is my favorite but its really insane to play right now, i even changed to frost lol i miss when it was simpler, i mean, when arcane missiles was his stronger single target ability, sadly i dont think its gonna change anytime soon
I’m loving it right now, but I do kinda miss the SL barrage leggo burst. Absolutely DELETING focused mobs on fortified weeks was so endlessly entertaining. Watching them go from 60% to 0 in an instant in 15s and lower. That was some good stuff
IMO Aug should be in beginner friendly as yes, you can do all them things and need to for MDI, but for pugging you can just do the DPS rotation and be fine. Also fire mage and shadow really feel like they should be swapped. Fire is so much harder to play right & despite the cheat death, has much of the same problems as shadow in terms of survivability.
I think this was a great list, I personally would of swapped affliction out with demonology for new peeps though from a beginner to the spec PoV. I'm talking from a mains perspective who loves both these specs - Climbing as warlock in M+ though just low keys I think the listing is kinda correct, however for progressive M+ I think affliction is easier than demo to play correctly, and here is why. Affliction is deceptively mobile for a caster, you can still maintain many abilities by simply tabbing and hitting GCDs on targets during any movement, even if its not optimal dps rotation its still more value than doing zero. because you can always do dps while moving it means many situations that involve lot of moving are not very punishing, also you are still pretty damn thicc. the hardest part of being a noob with affliction is learning what addons you need to install to make the game easier to read (nice plates with good dot visuals are a must) . honestly this spec is super accessible if your UI makes it easy to see dots Demo is tanky boi but you will suck at dps if you miss out on important timers during dps rotation , if you find yourself out of position as a demo lock and have to move because of a mistake that can easily be your entire DPS for that fight wasted. You might get though lower keys by tanking though some damage to finish dropping your tyrant in time but in higher keys stutter stepping and pre-emptive positioning are a must or you are going to hit a wall with this spec. Another thing to bring up is that demo has a few very unintuitive game designs for new players that are rather nuance but still are massive dps loses if you don't learn to understand them. A great example is [Demonic strength] the talent would at a glance seem like an easy functioning ability yet it has some weird quality for a pet ability. for one its the only pet ability that is on the warlocks GCD not the pets, but also has moments it can't be cast based on what the felguard is doing, has a positional requirement from both the pet and the warlock, has a LoS requirement from both the pet and the warlock. note that no other pet ability works like this in the warlocks kit. Just my thoughts, PS this isn't based on the raw dps potential of the specs just how difficult I honestly feel these specs are to climb with vs the time invested in the character. after you have played ether spec for long enough and invested your time into the right things to improve i think both are fundamentally very similar in difficulty
i never played this game before and i join my first guide and they ask to me what do you play and i had arcane mage and they laugh at me as i picked and hardest one to play without know it. lol
started playing a mage last week and having the most fun i ever had with a class. The rotation is indeed "hard" but i got the hang of it pretty fast especially because in aoe you can always cast on the move of needed with ice floes. as mentioned in the video the survivabilty is a big minus as you are playing arcane in aoe like a melee because of arcane explosion and you are basically onetapped by everything that looks in your general direction :D i agree with the sentiment that arcane needs an experienced player to understand the mechanics of the spec.
I wish warlocks felt tanky in higher keys. 26/27s and higher and things start to one shot you regardless of the innate tankiness because warlock health pool is much smaller right now relative to the past. So you have to rely on the limited mitigation actives. In lower keys it's absolutely an unkillable class. Really liked the video format, editing, and dialogue. This video is probably spot on when talking about keys in the 20-23 range, which is sort of mentioned at the end but I was thrown off by a comment at the beginning talking about higher keys, which is relative. In keys in the title range, the narrative on defensives changes quite a bit. Fire Mages thrive because of their easy rotation, mobility, and active defenses available for every ability thrown at them. While warlocks start to get one shot by mechanics, negating their innate tankiness and forcing them to be very careful in how they use their limited active defensives.
@@Johannes1321 at +20s the skill floor for destro is quite low. As they mention, the passive tankiness allows locks to just live through mechanics without doing anything. At any key level it's not particularly complex but the tankiness argument goes out the window in title range keys, which adds complexity.
@@yakarue I would agree to disagree. Destro suffers quite heavily from being clunky and a need for preplanning, like all lock specs, which is something devoker really do not need. Aug on the other hand I can somewhat agree with.
@@Johannes1321 I think it's important to remember this video is about skill floors and not ceilings. Destro has a pretty low skill floor, especially in keys around the 20-22 range where you can live through pretty much anything without using a defensive.
Hunter is easy mode for sure. Wow is so full of all kind of shit on the floor and areal effects it makes casting in mythics really shitty experience. But hunters can do their full rotation while moving thats huge ability.
I'm a BH main, and i can agree 100% that BH is very easy.... But i'll add the notion that because it's SO easy, it's very easy for players to become lazy, this making it actually rather hard. Because BH is so easy, they're also not the strongest, and it can be pretty easy to just drop potential damage just by being complacent. This is the case for every class, but i find BH just either horribly bad at the game, or some of the best... BH isn't about how easy or hard the spec is, but how much discipline you want to put into it.
The 2 hardest mechanics in m+ 1.Kick stun and any cc seems to be number1 when it comes to being so hard to perform that most people cant. 2. The ultimate hardest thing for 98% of players is to move their asses to the dungeon themself because yo lame ass b...s standing afk in valdrakken and watching some braindead tiktok or wank ur sausage damn. Get movin 😂
I played arcane mage many years ago, until Cata, then I left the game. I came back two months ago and I leveled my mage to 70, did a few dungeons in normal, then I tried to understand rotations for higher contents, and there I got stuck. I read and watched several guides but I'm confused on many aspects.THe problem is that I can't do things if I don't fully understand what I'm doing. Arcane used to be a bit boring back in the days, but now it feels over complicated, to the point that I've been thinking about ditching my mage as a main.
@@elisar1980 Stick with it, it can be fun once you figure it out. The only problem with dps leveling dungeons is that everything dies so fast you don't really get to use your whole kit efficiently. Arcane is very structured to an ebb and flow(peaks and valleys) type playstyle you can't fully get comfortable with until you're pushing higher content. I love it thematically just because you're sending a ton of sparks flying lol.
I don't agree with frost being beginner friendly after the rework. More like mid-tier, which is a shame really that if some beginner likes mage as a class there is no trully easy spec
I am struggeling a lot to decide between Wl and Mage. I want to play a class that has really awesome animations and aesthetics (wl clearly wins in terms of tier set imo), but also is useful and gets invited into keys. I do pug a lot so unfort. I am often depening on the communitiy's 'perception' of good or "bad" classes. And I feel warlock and mage sort of both do a lot of cool useful stuff, mage has bl and that mass barrier, which is likely better than healtstone in terms of absorb>heal for certain aoe burst damage like fh enforcer shouts or bursting stacks. Wl brings portal but I don't know how useful that's gonna turn out in the S3 dungeon pool, even this season I felt like it barely gotten any use outside of freehold in a way that would be comparable to priest abilities that were madatory at higher levels and considering that rogue has good chances to see a lot of play, bringing shroud to skip stuff, I don't know how important warlocks gate can be then, if at all. Then I also feel like frost mage and destro wl sort of are a similar in their playstyle and output, I think both have great visuals and a decently simple, yet not too boring rotation. Comparing the other speccs against each other I find warlock to be a bit more intersting personally, but how, if at all, that translate into viability in myth+ I am unable to tell. Would appreciate any kind of input or inspiration a lot!
Demo warlock in mythic+ is unplayable rn, destro and afli are ok but they arent meta at all, so u wont get invited as easily as you think. We'll see on the next patch if anything changes tho
I’m an Arcane mage main. What I would suggest and find which class/spec fits your play style and work on it. I’ve played mage since vanilla, and I don’t think I could main anything else. Good luck!
EDIT: Realized this video is 7 months old, but my comment still stands for s3. Destruction warlock is only at it's max effectiveness when playing with a consistent group and you know how long each fight is going to take and you know what each group pull is going to look like. The rotation is not crazy difficult, but there is an ocean of knowledge between playing destro, and playing it effectively. Also, Demo is probably harder than AFF at this point, aff is just too much of a pick between single target and aoe.
as a afflic main i sometimes completely give up applying agony on 4+ targets if only the vile tain cooldown was 5 secs less but still as long as you can kill the mobs within 25 secs and its the most fun class imo to play as a horde lover seeing that seeds of corruption stack up and fps bomb your teammates on heroic dungeon pulls is hilarious and very arousing only if the mobs can stay alive for more than 6 secs lol but yeah all hail Guldan maker of the fatherless Anduin
Thanks for this! Mage feels right for me. I don't think there is another class where I actually enjoy all of the specs, and being able to start off with frost, ease into fire, then dabble in arcane as I get better is very appealing. Played shadow priest in Shadowlands and it was fun, and I often dominated the damage meters, but the rotation was a lot to keep up with and disc was far too intimidating for me to try and master.
I play a Demonology Loc, and a guild member asked me to teach them how to play, as I have S4 Keystone master I likened it to trying to play piano with one hand whilst also spinning plates with the other.
Well MM hunter is easy to play in term of doing damage, everything else sad. Might just be the most unwanted class due to abilities to survive in high M+.
I'm pretty balance about balance druid (hehe) because yeah it is not that hard to understand the rotation however I don't feel this is beginner friendly or M+ friendly because you depend so much about your gear and start to "shine" in really high keys. Even in +15 trashes are beeing deleted so fast you often do not have time to do damages and you just feel like you suck pretty hard
MM hunt is not easy at all. In order to optimize damage with Aimed you need to know well when you need to cast it, rotation during Trueshot with combination of best possible Volley rotation makes it complicated as well. Also hunters have explo trap/frozen trap/tar trap, aoe root and tranq shot when we talk cc/dispels and general responsibility. In general, when you compare bad BM to mid BM, difference in damage will be pretty small. If you compare bad MM to mid MM, difference will be really big. That means something.
One of the classes I play is shadow and using shadow crash can become a nightmare, when you have a tank constantly running/jumping around. Once a tank honestly mentioned that when he saw this bomb coming and instantly moved away, shadow crash for the bin ;-). Thus I experienced a wide variety of doing dmg most time based on tank positioning. With my WL (no matter which specc) I can do much better good dmg also with a bad tank. And yes I play also tanks, and constant moving as a tank is a sign of not understanding how many dps classes work. So if you are a tank, next time before blaming the dps think about your positioning with the mobs.
Destro will do 100x less dmg than shadow if the tank moves lol. You are probably being impatient and throwing crash too early, manually dot and build insanity while tanks group the pulls
As a forsaken aff warlock, I can say my only struggle is the constant refreshing of curses and other dots. If the tank is running off and pulling everything out of range or it dies quickly, i'm standing there having to redo it/chase them just to get my stuff in. But when the mob is big and my things start going? Best DPS i've ever done
I want to say well done on the guide. It’s knowledgeable. It’s very helpful and it’s very insightful. Great job. I hope you guys keep up the good work and keep making good content.
Good video one disagreement I have is with Demo Warlock placing as Moderate it should be up there with Harder specs I think you over valued the Tankyness versus the Rotation difficulty I believe. Demo Rotation is one of the harder specs to learn how to get good dps on. Almost all of your Damage is in your Tyrant Ramp and in AOE managing Imp count for big Implosions. A small mistake and your DPS is completely borked for the fight. I would say in my opinion it is harder then Affliction even well yes managing your dots can be difficult its much more forgiving then Demo. Affliction in Plus is not hard really AOE its dot primary vile Taint for AOE Agony and Seed Spam Affliction is more difficult in Single Target. In my opinion the only spec that is harder to do then Demo is Arcane. Arcane is way harder then Demo not comparing those 2 but I think Demo is one of the next hardest. Great video though I agree with most if it.
I think Demo was very easy to play in M+ in season 1 because we had so much AOE damage outside of Tyrant and the tier set gave us a lot of mobility with the instant Hand of Gul'dan. Dogs and Felguard did a huge part of our overall dungeon damage. But this changed in season 2. Also I think the difficulty of Demo is much higher if you play with Nether Portal.
I dont know how you can to any of the conclusions but seek help. The closest you got was arcane being difficult". If your running an arcane every pull is built around the mage...seek some help.
i basically agree with the list BUT there is an important difference for every spec between difficulty to learn and difficulty to master. especially specs like frost might seem ez in a sense, it's just maintaining blizzard, frozen orb and spamming icelance and filling some glacial spikes in-between, but when you play that way and then watch the best frost mages in the world, it's like day and night not only due to mythic raid gear and insane pulls from giga tanks but also rota-wise. so actually I don't get fire mage as a moderate spec as well as MM hunter, you really can tell the difference way more than with other specs, how good someone handles their CDs, combustion is next to arcane surge on of the fastest, most intense and most unforgiving CDs in the game, imo also trueshot from MM is more than just a simple +% dmg CD it's more than just spamming aimed shot, stuff i would also mention, when it comes to the difficulty of a spec, some are ez to pick up, but to get to the full potential there are huge differences. try a perfect combustion with double BL + PI. it's so fast you might break your hand xD
I don’t think I’ve had as much fun as I am now with my balance Druid. Running around like a fuzzy chicken just absolutely annihilating mobs is fantastic
omg, use the glyph :)))
@@tatterdemalion898 Agreed, totally!
As a mage main who has been playing mage since MoP, the 10.2 version of arcane the most complicated mage spec that I have ever seen. That being said, it is hilarious to watch pro arcane mages demolish 5 people at once in BGS (im lookin at AlunethMaster)
As a die hard arcane player, it’s nice to see the spec be both as good as it is right now and as gatekept by skill as it is lmao. Feels rewarding to already be in love with a spec and willing to master it where others struggle and just play frost
I think 10.0 arcane was harder, mage overall was harder with rune of power
@@tsj8726 10.0 arcane mage genuinely made me feel bad at the game for the first time since BC of playing mage.. shit was tough
For 10.2, I'd love to see guides for specific dungeons like the one you had for Uldaman.
I'm a newby, only started playing retail in BfA, and man, the elemental shaman is complicated but also so rewarding with those crits
Can I just say that this game has a massssssssssive problem with screen clutter. I literally cannot fathom new players wanting to start playing. And I know its addons but still, when most streamers screens look like this its so off-putting
Looking at the rotations on icy-veins is like a slap to the face that you spent your money on such complex gameplay as well. I’d like to find a casual friendly rotation where I don’t feel bad that I’ve not had hours of time to spend in front of a training dummy, but still wanna do group play.
If screen bloat from “required” add-ons is to blame for this. I’d almost be willing to ban add-ons themselves. Of course I’d hate myself if this actually came to be a thing.
I play heroic raids with a nice clean UI and no addons. It’s a matter of preference
It separates the men from the boys. Some learn and get the hang of it. some get mad go play Final fantasy 😂
It’s honestly how you want it and preference. I make mine clutter free and organized while being able to do 20+ mythics
I mean personally I understand why people do it, my screen has looked like that at some point. But from my experience showing WoW to lots of my friends, they all find it off putting.@@KieperTV
Trying to get into WOW and I agree. Just gonna go play classic and play casually. Way too much to learn to be an endgame sweat. ESO seemed much simpler for that.
I wish Blizzard would just fix armor. There are 4 types of armor between Cloth, Leather, Mail, and Plate. Mail is the 2nd strongest armor. Why are all the mail wearers among the 4 squishiest specs along with Priest? I know armor type is just a part of the fantasy at this point but it seems Blizzard chooses when and when not to use fantasy as a requirement in game decisions. These mail classes need more contribution from armor.
Cloth:
Mage --Good survivability
Warlock -- Tanky
Priest -- Squishy
Leather:
Druid -- Good Survivability
Rogue -- Good Survivability
Demon Hunters -- Squishy but good mitigation for survivability
Monks -- Squishy but good mitigation for survivability
Mail:
Hunters -- Squishy
Evokers -- Squishy
Shaman -- Squishy
Plate:
Death Knights -- Good Survivability
Paladins -- Tanky
Warriors -- Good Survivability
Healer version next please
would like to see that also!
yes please!
I LOVE M+ Holy Priest even though it is not the best. It is pretty easy with lightweaver but the best build is a little harder. I would still put this in easy. I am 3200 only there are hpriests way better than I am who might say it is medium.
As a few others have said, a guide for each dungeon in 10.2 would be good, but do a beginner and advanced one for each dungeon. Something I've often found during various seasons is that many channels do a M+ dungeon guide, often based off of mid level PTR M+ runs, that go through dealing with mechanics at that level. These usually see players up to the KSM level. However once you get into the 16's and above range, suddenly certain mechanics that didn't need to be dealt with before become deadly due to the damage scaling at those higher level keys - but oftentimes none of the guides tell you how to deal with those situations. Unfortunately, certainly in PUGs, players simply expect you to know the strategies, and aren't always very helpful.
Anecdotally, in the previous season, we had +3'd a 15 in a guild group, and got an 18 Shadowmoon Burial Grounds - being supposedly the easiest key we decided to try it, even if it was a "weekly no leaver" type run. The run went fine until the Nerzhul, where we just could get the Omen of Death mechanic down. We even stopped the watch some guides, but none of the ones we watched covered how to deal with it at that high a level. Suddenly a friend of the guild who we raided with hopped onto discord to chat, one of us started streaming to discord, and with one explanation from a guy who was regularly running 24's etc, we killed the boss first try - but pretty much nobody seems to do guides at that level.
I’ll give you a tip I’m not high pushing player I have around 2.8k rio as tank, but when you die to smth ath higher level just check what it was use mythic dungeon tool and read description of this spell and then check in google if there is post about it how to deal with mechanic and I would suggest watching sometimes high keys run around 20-22
This is the way i learnd how to deal with some mechanic but no worries on higher io there are still players that don’t know mechanics 😅
I mean... buddy... You're talking about dodging shit on the ground, or not interrupting a spell. This is BASE GAME MECHANICS. I see it way too often even in 25+ keys, people can't do their job. Then who do you flame for dying? You often choose to flame the tank or healer. It's 99% of the times, a DPS issue, no matter how big the pull is. And for fuck's sake, pop a defensive at the start of a major pull.
Go to quazzi or any other m+ content creators
Heals would be nice, and boomkin is crazy because you have to root solar beam sleep stun vortex cyclone and use besr form to not die and use your heals from time to time on others and its easy to accidently pull extra mobs. And it has a ton of buttons to hit, same as mage, just too many buttons and macros to be loysnof fun.
i love to have too much buttons to click :)
yeah wired that aff gets hard while being a dot class just the same but with passive tank instead of active, and less than half the cc they need to be on top of.
This video was nice! It’s satisfying to hear what’s hard and easy cause I have some friends who like to bag on specs that they think are so easy when they’re just so wrong
I go back and forth on Shadow Priest. On one hand, the core rotation is pretty simple without being boring, and the class is definitely a vibe. On the other hand, it feels like the spec relies too much on massive 30sec+ cooldowns to really do big damage, which is clunky and boring.
In 10.2 they have to redo a few specs as there is a lot of changes coming, and other changes blizzard is making to make what seems mythic+ even more harder. I'm just glade they moved away from pushing for add-ons, as I believe add-ons have made it seem a bit to easy, or easier, for most players.
Demonlogy is perfect fun specially dwarf with stoneskin for mythics. Good cds, damage and fun rotation.
Shadow is NOT hard at all once you learn the dungeons (which everyone will after 50+ runs). Very simple rotation, even more so than boomkins, and you just have to learn when to utility which is what you're there for. Affliction used to be hard to play in keys, but they dumbed it down a lot in 10.1.5. Now all you with the new build is put UA and Agony on a few targets and then spam seeds of corruption. No tracking tons of dots on everything anymore. I'd say demo is easier to play than destro, honestly, because you don't typically run anything complicated in keys (such as nether portal). And destro has to deal with rain of fire needing to ramp damage when many pug tanks love to kite out of it. (Like with ele shaman earthquake). Destro does do a lot more damage than demo though on average in m+.
demo over destro is diabolical
Just because destro has to deal with tanks moving mobs out of RoF doesn't make it more difficult to play like what??? Lmao
Destru is easy, there is no setup. In M+ you drop infernal once in a while, rest of the time you immolate and spam RoF. Demo is that much more difficult, because you constantly need to play around maximizing Tyrant buffs if you want to top dmg.
I absolutetly agree that shadow is easy - its should be labeled as such. Drop shadow crush and continue ST rotation, thats it.
For Shadow, disperse is NOWHERE near as effective for survival and escape as it was a decade ago. Frankly I use it more for a mana regen boost, on those occasions where I had to start spam flash healing to help in critical times (See the Larodar fight in Amirdrassil)
Fire mage is so perfect for my adhd, I’m never bored out and don’t forget to play, that’s why I play Enhancement as a melee and paladin as a tank, I need to stay busy for not losing focus
If you want to be busy, you should play Brewmaster. BM is undoubtedly the busiest spec in tanks, and probably top 3 in WoW.
Still love playing BM Hunter but mainly for collecting all the different pets. So many to collect need multiple alts to collect them all 😃
Hear me out, Balance Druid has the highest apm, while devastation evokers have the least of all casters
I agree, if you are playing balance correct, it would be much into the harder than being one of the first beginner, managing Starlord and Rattle buffs, pulling AP to reset 3 stack starlord, making sure everything is completely dotted (otherwise you do no damage), I have played a lot of other range classes and Boomkin is def not the easiest. Also, going into bear while it can save you, while you are in bear your doing no damage. Def one of the squisher range classes (and boomkin is my main), lastly its one of the only ramp range classes (afflication aside) so if those mobs die quick, you are always dead last on the meters.
Mage sucks in all specs.
Miss one click and lose 8-12 seconds of effective damage.
Pally. Roll face on board. Top deeps.
Arcane mage is my favorite but its really insane to play right now, i even changed to frost lol i miss when it was simpler, i mean, when arcane missiles was his stronger single target ability, sadly i dont think its gonna change anytime soon
I’m loving it right now, but I do kinda miss the SL barrage leggo burst. Absolutely DELETING focused mobs on fortified weeks was so endlessly entertaining. Watching them go from 60% to 0 in an instant in 15s and lower. That was some good stuff
IMO Aug should be in beginner friendly as yes, you can do all them things and need to for MDI, but for pugging you can just do the DPS rotation and be fine.
Also fire mage and shadow really feel like they should be swapped. Fire is so much harder to play right & despite the cheat death, has much of the same problems as shadow in terms of survivability.
Good mages can really never die tbh
@@Dilllll26 If the healer sleeps..even good mages can die x)
The UI's are so amazing would love to get a copy import for them
What is the weakaura pack for the affliction dot management? As well the overall addon, it looks like ElvUI but not sure what profile pack.
I think this was a great list, I personally would of swapped affliction out with demonology for new peeps though from a beginner to the spec PoV. I'm talking from a mains perspective who loves both these specs - Climbing as warlock in M+ though just low keys I think the listing is kinda correct, however for progressive M+ I think affliction is easier than demo to play correctly, and here is why.
Affliction is deceptively mobile for a caster, you can still maintain many abilities by simply tabbing and hitting GCDs on targets during any movement, even if its not optimal dps rotation its still more value than doing zero. because you can always do dps while moving it means many situations that involve lot of moving are not very punishing, also you are still pretty damn thicc. the hardest part of being a noob with affliction is learning what addons you need to install to make the game easier to read (nice plates with good dot visuals are a must) . honestly this spec is super accessible if your UI makes it easy to see dots
Demo is tanky boi but you will suck at dps if you miss out on important timers during dps rotation , if you find yourself out of position as a demo lock and have to move because of a mistake that can easily be your entire DPS for that fight wasted. You might get though lower keys by tanking though some damage to finish dropping your tyrant in time but in higher keys stutter stepping and pre-emptive positioning are a must or you are going to hit a wall with this spec.
Another thing to bring up is that demo has a few very unintuitive game designs for new players that are rather nuance but still are massive dps loses if you don't learn to understand them. A great example is [Demonic strength] the talent would at a glance seem like an easy functioning ability yet it has some weird quality for a pet ability. for one its the only pet ability that is on the warlocks GCD not the pets, but also has moments it can't be cast based on what the felguard is doing, has a positional requirement from both the pet and the warlock, has a LoS requirement from both the pet and the warlock. note that no other pet ability works like this in the warlocks kit.
Just my thoughts, PS this isn't based on the raw dps potential of the specs just how difficult I honestly feel these specs are to climb with vs the time invested in the character. after you have played ether spec for long enough and invested your time into the right things to improve i think both are fundamentally very similar in difficulty
Can you tell me how can I make my numbers look like that ?
the one I hard disagree with is MM hunter its immobile squishy beyond belief, and the complete lack of cc makes the dungeons harder not easier.
As a healer main i have only bm hunter as dps, just for dps pov to help me understand my team
i never played this game before and i join my first guide and they ask to me what do you play and i had arcane mage and they laugh at me as i picked and hardest one to play without know it. lol
Balance Druid, or BM hunter for a new person coming back now?
BM hunter 100%
Nice content, keep the good work!
Great Video!
Grainger industrial supply store near you
started playing a mage last week and having the most fun i ever had with a class.
The rotation is indeed "hard" but i got the hang of it pretty fast especially because in aoe you can always cast on the move of needed with ice floes.
as mentioned in the video the survivabilty is a big minus as you are playing arcane in aoe like a melee because of arcane explosion and you are basically onetapped by everything that looks in your general direction :D
i agree with the sentiment that arcane needs an experienced player to understand the mechanics of the spec.
Good video, and I agree with it, for the most part. I would like to see you finish the series with healers and tanks.
Can you do this For Healers
Arzyn is last m+ affi lengend!!
Not me a newcomer to wow playing arcane mage right of the bat 💀
"My spec is not easy!!"
You can tell this dude is a caster main. APM = difficulty only when it’s a range class apparently 💀 but when it comes to melee, APM = noob
fire is by far the hardest spec in the game to play with high proficiency.
The person that did this list got no idea, shadow is ez and bad, locks are a joke. Fire is hardest spec to play, to master and execute.
Arcane mage ❤
I wish warlocks felt tanky in higher keys. 26/27s and higher and things start to one shot you regardless of the innate tankiness because warlock health pool is much smaller right now relative to the past. So you have to rely on the limited mitigation actives. In lower keys it's absolutely an unkillable class.
Really liked the video format, editing, and dialogue. This video is probably spot on when talking about keys in the 20-23 range, which is sort of mentioned at the end but I was thrown off by a comment at the beginning talking about higher keys, which is relative. In keys in the title range, the narrative on defensives changes quite a bit. Fire Mages thrive because of their easy rotation, mobility, and active defenses available for every ability thrown at them. While warlocks start to get one shot by mechanics, negating their innate tankiness and forcing them to be very careful in how they use their limited active defensives.
Did they just say Destro is easier than devoker and AUG XD
@@Johannes1321 at +20s the skill floor for destro is quite low. As they mention, the passive tankiness allows locks to just live through mechanics without doing anything. At any key level it's not particularly complex but the tankiness argument goes out the window in title range keys, which adds complexity.
@@yakarue I would agree to disagree. Destro suffers quite heavily from being clunky and a need for preplanning, like all lock specs, which is something devoker really do not need. Aug on the other hand I can somewhat agree with.
@@Johannes1321 I think it's important to remember this video is about skill floors and not ceilings. Destro has a pretty low skill floor, especially in keys around the 20-22 range where you can live through pretty much anything without using a defensive.
Hunter is easy mode for sure. Wow is so full of all kind of shit on the floor and areal effects it makes casting in mythics really shitty experience. But hunters can do their full rotation while moving thats huge ability.
arcane isnt hard its just luck dependant and completely sucks in raids
lol affliction :D is most ez spec ever
Please new plater update for 10.2 :)
I'm a BH main, and i can agree 100% that BH is very easy....
But i'll add the notion that because it's SO easy, it's very easy for players to become lazy, this making it actually rather hard.
Because BH is so easy, they're also not the strongest, and it can be pretty easy to just drop potential damage just by being complacent.
This is the case for every class, but i find BH just either horribly bad at the game, or some of the best... BH isn't about how easy or hard the spec is, but how much discipline you want to put into it.
Niceeeeeeeee
Why arcane came to such a state is beyond me. It feels like a job that’s no longer fun.
I think it’s the most fun mage spec, if anything they made it too simple with the rework
This is so incorrect its unreal
Imagine recommending Boomkin as a beginner spec.
@@Dasbeerboots right
Lmao exactly what I thought crazy
Imagine saying Boomy is immortal in bearform xd It's like a 20%hp buff, so if you're low or taking dmg for 20 seconds it's useless
Boomoid seethe and cope
Calling Arcane and Elemental Hard just shows that you guys dont know wtf you talking about
Hunter is hardest class in the game cant believe you made bm the ez spec.
The fact you said demology warlock is hard nulls this entire video 💀
tankselfhealing and support class killing a ROLEplaygame, then there is only one Role any more DD
Easy specs deserve to be f tier - cry more, Hunters
I"m not expecting Arcane Mage being Advance level... I mean.. the last thing i've heard about Arcane Mages back in WotLK was: Faceroll
The 2 hardest mechanics in m+
1.Kick stun and any cc seems to be number1 when it comes to being so hard to perform that most people cant.
2. The ultimate hardest thing for 98% of players is to move their asses to the dungeon themself because yo lame ass b...s standing afk in valdrakken and watching some braindead tiktok or wank ur sausage damn. Get movin 😂
Arcane way harder then fire....fire are soo easy 😊
I play as an arcan mage and thought that this was the simplest class)
Can confirm Arcane Mage being the most difficult. I recently learned it, and it is pretty wild. Need to watch a few guides to learn that spec.
Funny thing is, it used to be the easiest spec in the game
I was shocked when some top tier guy dumped his whole mana then began surge and pop up all cds... so much to learn but so fun to learn.
@@xlightninghawk6360AB > AB > AB > AM 🎉
I played arcane mage many years ago, until Cata, then I left the game. I came back two months ago and I leveled my mage to 70, did a few dungeons in normal, then I tried to understand rotations for higher contents, and there I got stuck. I read and watched several guides but I'm confused on many aspects.THe problem is that I can't do things if I don't fully understand what I'm doing. Arcane used to be a bit boring back in the days, but now it feels over complicated, to the point that I've been thinking about ditching my mage as a main.
@@elisar1980 Stick with it, it can be fun once you figure it out. The only problem with dps leveling dungeons is that everything dies so fast you don't really get to use your whole kit efficiently. Arcane is very structured to an ebb and flow(peaks and valleys) type playstyle you can't fully get comfortable with until you're pushing higher content. I love it thematically just because you're sending a ton of sparks flying lol.
These lists are a complete joke. Do you guys actually play the game?
bro they called Arcane mage hard to play 💀
I don't agree with frost being beginner friendly after the rework. More like mid-tier, which is a shame really that if some beginner likes mage as a class there is no trully easy spec
I am struggeling a lot to decide between Wl and Mage. I want to play a class that has really awesome animations and aesthetics (wl clearly wins in terms of tier set imo), but also is useful and gets invited into keys. I do pug a lot so unfort. I am often depening on the communitiy's 'perception' of good or "bad" classes. And I feel warlock and mage sort of both do a lot of cool useful stuff, mage has bl and that mass barrier, which is likely better than healtstone in terms of absorb>heal for certain aoe burst damage like fh enforcer shouts or bursting stacks. Wl brings portal but I don't know how useful that's gonna turn out in the S3 dungeon pool, even this season I felt like it barely gotten any use outside of freehold in a way that would be comparable to priest abilities that were madatory at higher levels and considering that rogue has good chances to see a lot of play, bringing shroud to skip stuff, I don't know how important warlocks gate can be then, if at all. Then I also feel like frost mage and destro wl sort of are a similar in their playstyle and output, I think both have great visuals and a decently simple, yet not too boring rotation. Comparing the other speccs against each other I find warlock to be a bit more intersting personally, but how, if at all, that translate into viability in myth+ I am unable to tell. Would appreciate any kind of input or inspiration a lot!
Demo warlock in mythic+ is unplayable rn, destro and afli are ok but they arent meta at all, so u wont get invited as easily as you think. We'll see on the next patch if anything changes tho
I’m an Arcane mage main. What I would suggest and find which class/spec fits your play style and work on it. I’ve played mage since vanilla, and I don’t think I could main anything else.
Good luck!
i think a video that highlights the strengths and weaknesses of each heal would be good
Aug is the extremely easy spec these days 😂
EDIT: Realized this video is 7 months old, but my comment still stands for s3. Destruction warlock is only at it's max effectiveness when playing with a consistent group and you know how long each fight is going to take and you know what each group pull is going to look like. The rotation is not crazy difficult, but there is an ocean of knowledge between playing destro, and playing it effectively. Also, Demo is probably harder than AFF at this point, aff is just too much of a pick between single target and aoe.
Watching this in Patch 10.2.. Hunters being F Tier.. :))))))
Before seeing this video i just expect affliction to be up there. LOT of button bloat to upkeep dots in aoe (no you do NOT only spam seed)
as a afflic main i sometimes completely give up applying agony on 4+ targets if only the vile tain cooldown was 5 secs less but still as long as you can kill the mobs within 25 secs and its the most fun class imo to play as a horde lover seeing that seeds of corruption stack up and fps bomb your teammates on heroic dungeon pulls is hilarious and very arousing only if the mobs can stay alive for more than 6 secs lol but yeah all hail Guldan maker of the fatherless Anduin
This should be called Mythic bars and numbers. You can’t see sh*t. One reason why I don’t do mythic+
That editing is amazing, you deserve a lot more subs. Excellent work!
What a mess this game has become. New players won’t stand a chance.
Thanks for this! Mage feels right for me. I don't think there is another class where I actually enjoy all of the specs, and being able to start off with frost, ease into fire, then dabble in arcane as I get better is very appealing. Played shadow priest in Shadowlands and it was fun, and I often dominated the damage meters, but the rotation was a lot to keep up with and disc was far too intimidating for me to try and master.
I play a Demonology Loc, and a guild member asked me to teach them how to play, as I have S4 Keystone master I likened it to trying to play piano with one hand whilst also spinning plates with the other.
Well MM hunter is easy to play in term of doing damage, everything else sad. Might just be the most unwanted class due to abilities to survive in high M+.
Arcane Mage Hard 😂😂😂
Fire Mage is more like "hard" on Guitar Hero, not expert. GW2 Weaver on the other hand, ooph . . .
This is such a good video its like watching a real tv show like "how its made" from back in the day very nice!
did u just say druids are immortal on bear form:DD what kinda zaza are we smoking?
Me trying to play arcane in my first time mage levelling... Cant lie, I love it and getting used to it.
So in short hunter is a faceroll class as it always was... Well, that's nothing new
Could you please share the BM Hunter Plater import & weakauras from this video, please :D
I'm pretty balance about balance druid (hehe) because yeah it is not that hard to understand the rotation however I don't feel this is beginner friendly or M+ friendly because you depend so much about your gear and start to "shine" in really high keys. Even in +15 trashes are beeing deleted so fast you often do not have time to do damages and you just feel like you suck pretty hard
boomkins realistically are useless as a dps below a 21
Shaman hard and fkin frost mage easy?
Oops, I played the advanced specs😅
MM hunt is not easy at all. In order to optimize damage with Aimed you need to know well when you need to cast it, rotation during Trueshot with combination of best possible Volley rotation makes it complicated as well. Also hunters have explo trap/frozen trap/tar trap, aoe root and tranq shot when we talk cc/dispels and general responsibility.
In general, when you compare bad BM to mid BM, difference in damage will be pretty small. If you compare bad MM to mid MM, difference will be really big. That means something.
One of the classes I play is shadow and using shadow crash can become a nightmare, when you have a tank constantly running/jumping around. Once a tank honestly mentioned that when he saw this bomb coming and instantly moved away, shadow crash for the bin ;-). Thus I experienced a wide variety of doing dmg most time based on tank positioning. With my WL (no matter which specc) I can do much better good dmg also with a bad tank.
And yes I play also tanks, and constant moving as a tank is a sign of not understanding how many dps classes work. So if you are a tank, next time before blaming the dps think about your positioning with the mobs.
Destro will do 100x less dmg than shadow if the tank moves lol. You are probably being impatient and throwing crash too early, manually dot and build insanity while tanks group the pulls
@@Dilllll26 You know nothing, so better be quite.
@@Jo-Jo8vs if you are missing shadow crash you are garbage and rushing your dmg out, probably cause you are doing low keys where stuff dies quickly :)
Great analysis and presentation
Great video
As a forsaken aff warlock, I can say my only struggle is the constant refreshing of curses and other dots. If the tank is running off and pulling everything out of range or it dies quickly, i'm standing there having to redo it/chase them just to get my stuff in. But when the mob is big and my things start going? Best DPS i've ever done
My condolences for you playing Afflic. It’s just not good enough in high keys… #BuffAfflic
I want to say well done on the guide. It’s knowledgeable. It’s very helpful and it’s very insightful. Great job. I hope you guys keep up the good work and keep making good content.
Haha the worst tier list I see ever, guys u don't have idea
Aug is literally the easiest M+ spec in the game, it literally just requires your teammates to be good.
Hunter isnt meta 4 months later BM ripping 30s and doing billions of dps lol
Good video one disagreement I have is with Demo Warlock placing as Moderate it should be up there with Harder specs I think you over valued the Tankyness versus the Rotation difficulty I believe. Demo Rotation is one of the harder specs to learn how to get good dps on. Almost all of your Damage is in your Tyrant Ramp and in AOE managing Imp count for big Implosions. A small mistake and your DPS is completely borked for the fight. I would say in my opinion it is harder then Affliction even well yes managing your dots can be difficult its much more forgiving then Demo. Affliction in Plus is not hard really AOE its dot primary vile Taint for AOE Agony and Seed Spam Affliction is more difficult in Single Target. In my opinion the only spec that is harder to do then Demo is Arcane. Arcane is way harder then Demo not comparing those 2 but I think Demo is one of the next hardest. Great video though I agree with most if it.
I think Demo was very easy to play in M+ in season 1 because we had so much AOE damage outside of Tyrant and the tier set gave us a lot of mobility with the instant Hand of Gul'dan. Dogs and Felguard did a huge part of our overall dungeon damage. But this changed in season 2. Also I think the difficulty of Demo is much higher if you play with Nether Portal.
Great video, would love to see one ranking DPS from squishiest to most durable
I dont know how you can to any of the conclusions but seek help. The closest you got was arcane being difficult". If your running an arcane every pull is built around the mage...seek some help.
i basically agree with the list BUT there is an important difference for every spec between difficulty to learn and difficulty to master. especially specs like frost might seem ez in a sense, it's just maintaining blizzard, frozen orb and spamming icelance and filling some glacial spikes in-between, but when you play that way and then watch the best frost mages in the world, it's like day and night not only due to mythic raid gear and insane pulls from giga tanks but also rota-wise. so actually I don't get fire mage as a moderate spec as well as MM hunter, you really can tell the difference way more than with other specs, how good someone handles their CDs, combustion is next to arcane surge on of the fastest, most intense and most unforgiving CDs in the game, imo also trueshot from MM is more than just a simple +% dmg CD it's more than just spamming aimed shot, stuff i would also mention, when it comes to the difficulty of a spec, some are ez to pick up, but to get to the full potential there are huge differences. try a perfect combustion with double BL + PI. it's so fast you might break your hand xD
I play most speccs, and Arcade mage is WAY easier than shadow priest. Its just way easier to deal damge
Here's a topic you can cover at elwsr briefly in your m+ guides - player toxicity in keys that make other players not wanna do it.
Can you just follow the title and rank them from easiest to hardest? LOL