@@amporg1285 yeah nobody els take advantage only devon. Good everybody else is so fair 🤣 come on, why you think a guy like ermes always get alot of fouls before the go. Yeah think one more time👍
@@jocke8672 maybe because vitaly's arm is twice as long as Ermes'. And fouls don't mean nothing, if they meant something Devon would lose every match on fouls
It's NOT about the dangerous position. There's tons of dangerous positions for arm break, and they are not illegal. It's about using the leverage of your bone locked out at max stretch against someone who has to use some type of muscle involved to finish the match.
This. My mind is blown how pradeep didnt mention this. It's armwrestling with a straight arm. Using your body weight on a bone lock as a leverage. You need to pin the whole body or break the arm.
BUT the original rule created in WAF that shoulder cannot go below elbow pad level in neutral or losing position WAS about dangerous position. So theoretically Devon is correct when it comes to the original rules.
Not only that but to use a straight arm to pull your opponents downwards in an almost hanging position with the use of bodyweight makes it very favourable and draining.
The kings move is not arm wrestling... It's hiding under the table and should be illegal. It also makes it near impossible to pin because of the orientation of the arm. So I agree with engin, I'm worried about the other guy while Devon takes all the stress off of his arm to wear the other guy out. To see Devon whine about that is because he thinks he's not strong enough without it!
Im not a biggest fan of kings move but I accept it as one of techniques because you cannot just "hide under the table" and win easy.. it doesnt work that way.. I have tried KM in sparring and it definitely needs some serious strength and knowledge to do that.. I wish it would be that easy that you just relax your arm and wait for opponent to get tired 😂
Dropping the shoulder below the table during a winning position should be banned too if the rule is to be consistent. The partial implementation of that rule in neutral or losing is mad sus
Pradeep, the kingsmove shouldn't be allowed in armwrestling. Armwrestling is a contest to see who can make their opponent's hand touch the pad first. In order to do this you must open your opponent's arm up or force them to give up because they cannot stop their arm from opening without following their hand to the pad with their body. My point is simple, the way you train ARMwrestling revolves around not letting your ARM open. When someone's ARM is completely opened (for them), then their ARMwrestling strength has failed them and it should be a loss because it shows they are weaker at armwrestling. I think the shoulder below the table in a losing position rule, is a good place to draw the line of whether or not someone's ARM is completely opened, that is why I think the kingsmove being legal is bs. Open toproll is okay since the one performing the move still has some sort of strength that hasn't yet failed (example: pronation through the thumb) rather than just completely relying on a bone lock. Bottom line, if the kingsmove is allowed, I believe the only people at the top will be people with weird elbow locks like Devon and Michael Todd, and not necessarily people that are genuinely strong at armwrestling (not saying Devon and Michael aren't genuinely strong at armwrestling lol) like Levan, Ermes, Georgie, Morozov, etc. Kingsmove being allowed will favor an extremely small minority of people while basically screwing the majority of armwrestlers over, and might even encourage armwrestlers to try to make their elbows tight and lock like Devons (not healthy) rather than focusing on actual armwrestling strength.
I remember an army of Devon's fanboys hating kingsmove after Devon lost MMT couple years ago. Now seems like these guys changed their mind... just a little bit 😂😂
Everyone is missing the point here. There should never be one man deciding these rules. EVREY major sport has a panel of board or commission voting and the majority rules. Engin should have "one" vote. Dana white owns the UFC but this doesn't give him the authority to make and dictate the rules. It should be debated and voted on just like any other professional sport. Engin shouldn't get to be a dictator of the sport.
@ricardoxot yes I know that he technically can. But just as I don't like to live in Turkey under Erdogan, the people/ppv will rebel against East vs West if it's run like a dictatorship. I'm not putting my American dollars on a sport that does not have a democracy. There will be other options to watch armwrestling, there was before east vs west and there will be after. Be humble, don't be a bully🙏❤️
@@Oldskinnyarm people clearly don't mind "dictatorship" on east vs west, it was under Engin that the biggest armwrestling event was made, east vs west 12 broke all records of ppv sales of any and all armwrestling events. Cope harder because devon lost.
@@ricardoxot of course east vs west 12 broke records because EvW basically has a monopoly on arm wrestling. Devon vs Levan couldve happened at any promotion and broke PPV records. Literally look at last EvW Levan and Devon's PRACTICE PULL after the show it got more views than every single match combined
Btw I just tried to test it myself. I tired kingsmoving with shoulder above the table and my friend easily pinned me. I put the shoulders below the table, and I was holding him easily. I made my friend try with the shoulder above, and I was easil pinning him. He went under the table, I couldn't budge
@@OlegOlexievyeah and levan would of never won against ermes if he could not go under the table in a winning position toproll. But no one talks about it. The more you give the athletes the more the sport can evolve
@@secktox5225no everybody finish the other guy in a winning position going under its ok. But to defend like the desperation move is both cowardly and dangerous and its kinda cheating thats why its banned.
Well this video just needs to be watched by both Devon and Engin. And then Pradeep, Devon, John, Michael Todd and Engin need to have a podcast to discuss and clear everything.😂😂
There should always be a path to the pin pad without having to break someone's structure or hurt your opponent. Going shoulder below the table in a defensive position does not allow for such a path.
Let's Remember School boy vs Khaled. That has been one of the worst match I've ever seen, It Was disgusting to see the stronger man lose. King's move is unfair, Because If you never trained against it you can lose a match pretty easy. Now try to imagine, You train so hard, putting all you have in the sport, and then you lose with a King's move guy. That's mad. I have been training and competing for 1 year and a half, I never pulled against a King's move, Because in my club no one use that shit. The point is: It is not easy to find someone that use this move, so it is not easy to train against it. When you compete, train and spend so much time in the sport, its a very Simple concept to understand. All this shit, King's move, load before the go, being tricky in the set up, should be banned. This move isn't about being technical or strong, It's just unfair behaviour. You can't understand that my friend because you are just a viewer, I don't know if you have ever competed in some sport in your life , But for sure you don't know anything about SPORTMANSHIP or be respectful to your opponent.
I want to address dangerous moves in amateur arm wrestling. Yes, Pradeep, it's the responsibility of the athlete to keep themselves safe. The issue is that at the amateur level, the officials, promoters and referees don't always know the knowledge level of the competing athlete. Have they been arm wrestling for years as an amateur and know how to keep themselves safe, or have they just arm wrestled their friends and decided they should compete at an amateur competition without any real knowledge of the sport. You know I've shot thousands of arm wrestling videos with amateurs. Especially when a camera is pointed at them, they want to win at all costs and don't even realize they have gone into a dangerous position. The excitement of the match can cloud their judgement when they haven't had training to understand and avoid dangerous positions. As an athlete and promoter, I'd rather keep the athletes from making a bad decision. It's not about losing money from sponsors due to an arm break or other injury. It's about looking out for the well being of the athlete. When they reach the professional level, they can do what they want within the rules. By the way, I was arm wrestling in Arizona last year at a practice. Of course, everyone wants to beat up on Adam The Bodybuilder Bully. A kid that has been training for 2 years wanted to beat me badly. He couldn't move my arm. He went into a break arm position so quickly, there was no time to stop him, and he instantly broke his arm against me. He claimed that he "tested his frame" often and didn't expect it to happen. Unfortunately for him, it happened. Honestly, it traumatized me a bit.
Either going below the table should be a foul or not. Being in a winning or losing position should not matter. I personally would like to see everything be above the table, but as long as it is consistent, I do not mind too much either way.
There’s nothing wrong with the kings move, it’s just another technique in AW today, the sport definitely needs to evolve. There’s a counter move for every technique. No one wants to see everyone AW the same way all the time.
Wanna get rid of the kings move and see who has the strongest arms? Then go back to set down arm wrestling! Richard Lupkes never lost a match in set down arm wrestling 👍🇺🇸
Engin terzi threatened to Devon to leak some of his personal information I watched the whole live and that point of video engin was very angry because Devon was nonstop talking about desperation move for more than hour while being stopped by engin multiple times " I should have screen recorderd it was the most weird hilarious lives ever say
Thanks for sharing that, I only watched a few minutes. After losing to Levan he seems insane about the kings move. Looks like he believes he could won with it
@PinyataSpirit Devon is pretty salty about his loses against Levan. If you look at his body language and the way he acts when he's with Levan he seems quite weird and hurt emotionally
King's move IS an unfair advantage. However, do we need to ban every unfair advantage? No. In some fighting games you can spam a simple combo which stun locks the enemy and you win, it is an advantage and completely legal but it is banned in all competitions because it is "disgraceful". A sport is not only about winning, there should be honour and respect in it. The people who are very strict about rules are not honourable people because they look only for loopholes and advantages to win. It is a competition of skill and strength, not of bullying, cheating and being unfair.
If all risk should be left up to the athletes, then why stop boxing matches or force players to wear protective equipment in various sports? Even in gymnastics there are banned skills due to safety concerns.
The shoulder under the table not being a foul in a winning position is easily explained for the exact opposite reason it is a foul in a losing position: The musculature is involved, not the bone structure. I don't see why this is confusing to some people.
Weak guys like Devon and Auden kills the excitement for new audience by taking 15 mins in the setup.. Guys like Levan and Vitaly hardly take any time in the setup, they just run through the opponent makes it look more manly.. That being said Auden and Devon should go for Barbora next
@@Oldskinnyarm Ah yes, the high IQ strategy of bitchin for 10 minutes and cheating in the setup just to get steamrolled by Levan just to bitch some more lmfaoooooooooo
Ye the ban is total bull, now the Russians like vitaly want to ban the flop press all of a sudden, before it was the kings move. Just whatever valid arm positional move that they haven’t learned how to do or can’t do, they now want to ban it. Eventually if will be illegal to do anything other than a straight side pressure beginner move. If you can go extreme inside with a shoulder committed flop press, you should be able to go extreme outside with an under the table kings move. It’s a natural part of arm wrestling and you know because most beginners will naturally gravitate to either a shoulder press or a kings move on their first ever practice. The kings move, like the flop press, requires a crazy amount of skill and specific strength (and genetics), that’s why most people, including vitaly and engin etc, couldn’t do it effectively if they tried. They’re semi butt hurt they can’t do the move themselves. It’s also a faux masculinity thing ‘only hook or high posting toproll is manly’
The main reason of king's move ban is that some pullers have a joint lock in the elbow where they can rest comfortable and let their opponent gas out. Moreover to break an arm it takes a lot of power and when you have stretched your opponent arm you are likely at your limit and even if you are willing to break your opponent arm you will most likely get tired and lose the match.
I like Devon, but no way should king's move be allowed. Look at Todd, as soon as "shoulder above the table" rule was implemented he started losing. It is an unfair advantage and it has nothing to do with arm breaking (let it break or whatever the bs slogan is). I still like Devon and I think he is an inspiration but he is wrong on this one.
If you are allowed to go below the table in winning position then why not in losing position. Because you get unfair advantage. Then what about the unfair advantage you are getting while winning. If you can use the structure of your body to press someone then why not use your structure to defend yourself from getting pinned using kingsmove I am not defending devon but I am saying the rules need serious revisiting. One thing that can be done is instead of completely banning kingsmove allow its use in small portions of the match. Like for example if your opponent cannot pin you while keeping your shoulder above then as soon as he goes below the table to pin you, you can also go below the table for kingsmove but at your own arm's risk. The moment your opponents gets positive elbow you get like 2sec to also come above. The same thing for a complete press. As soon as the opponent's shoulder is on top of hand and wrist you are allowed for kingsmove. This is just my idea. Can be very wrong.🙂
arent we gonna talj about the fact that to even get in a winning position you need to have more side pressure than you opponent and to get in a press you first have to get in position to transition first unlike the under table kings moves where to get there you only need to to squat and hope your arm doesnt break so not sure what unfair advantage you are talking about
@@khabeesschool9919 i'm not talking about the side pressure. Yes you need side pressure to go to that position but if your side pressure is not enough to pin your opponents hand then why go below the table? That is unfair advantage. Going under the table for pinning completely finishes the chance of comeback of endurance arm wrestlers who holds their arm inches above the pad in hopes of tiring their opponent. What I am thinking is simple, if you can use your body weight and structure to win then you can also use it to defend. But I can somewhat agree with you on the press because it also uses a lot of triceps. But what you said does not hold for Kamil jablonski like arm wrestlers who are allowed to start in a press. No transition.
@@pritamsarma7531 look man going under the table to pin your opponents is not going to be a pin by using structure it just involves the arm so you can use your arm strength to pin which is musculature
@@khabeesschool9919 did you ever compete in a tournament? I also used to think like you a year ago. But when I participated for the first time, I was not able to pin one guy even though I was winning. So I just dropped my shoulder and sat under the table. I was given a foul first and when I did second time I was disqualified. When I argued about being legal one of the top arm wrestlers there showed me how powerful, unfair and dirty that move looked. He said one way to counter this is the dangerous kingsmove which is not legal so this is also not legal.
@@pritamsarma7531 were you perhaps pushing your opponent outside of their shoulder in that position or were in losing position? Because going under the table in an winning position just uses your arm more instead of side pressure
Wow u know about arm wrestling, well if we see are wrestling was earlier only hand power then technical body use and Now kings wrong then what's wrong nigga?
if your arm is completely flattened out straight it should be a pin through technicality that your arm is straight therefore should have been pinned at any reasonable angle, regardless if its touching the pinpad or not
Exactly, this is what I mentioned in my comment. Just changing your perspective and arm angle and saying it's not touching the pin pad even if it's straightened is pure stupidity
I though you were smarter. The only reason Devon wants that rule is because he has a bone stop, but it should not be allowed there is 0 muscule involved, he wants to use his bones, besides look absurd and ugly. If the arm is stright, you should lose at that point, no advantage for long lever guys.
This is about armwrestling fundamentals. An extended arm using leverage has nothing to do with strength. You fundamentally lost the armwrestling match. The only reason your hand isn't on the pad is because you're using the elbow pad as a fulcrum.
Maine professional arm wrestlers arms do not extend completely anymore. When you drop your shoulder below the table it gives you a mechanical advantage. Michael Todd made a living of it during WAL. Notice he's not nearly as successful now. Ban the kings move forever.
I get your point about everything being an unfair advantage. However, for many things, it's extremely difficult for the refs to tell if one person is gaining an advantage over the other since it's so subtle. But the under the table kings move is so obvious for the refs, why not enforce it? Sure, in a perfect world the refs would see everything and make the match perfectly fair. But just because the refs can't make everything perfectly fair, doesn't mean they can't call a foul on something as obvious as the under the table kings move.
Seeing Devon use his popularity to try and bully the guy who built such a great platform for international arm wrestling is disgusting. Devon and Jodi deserve each other. They are both petty, egomaniacal people.
Pulling your oponent towards you is the absolute main objective of the sport. If he can't handle your backpressure and his elbow comes off the pad, that's on him. PUSHING your oponent off the pad is totally different.
Yeah i dont understand why not allow kings move, many say is because you use your bones and not muscle, but in the case Jerry move which is flop press has to be banned because he use all his skeleton, and the funny thing is that is more difficult to beat a flop presser than a kings mover
@@amporg1285 haha still people in 2024 that thinks You use triceps when You press in armwrestling, My friend see how devon press Jerry, and Jerry has a very big and powerful tríceps, it's not about tríceps, it's about line your shoulder and use your frame.
@@richardsonr.m8257 it's also the frame, but 80% is triceps. Of course if your shoulder is not aligned you can't use your triceps, and when Devon pressed Jerry he was in a counter position. How come all the presser train their triceps constantly (Jerry, Kamil)? Learn physics
Nice analysis Pradeep! It is refreshing to see someone that actually puts effort into understanding both perspectives and fully watching the context surround a controversy 👍
8:30 great point by engin??? Both u and engin are dumb, kingsmove is a skill, just like any other move in armwrestling and elbow foul is not - i can elbow foul agenst levan, but i cant kingsmove him or hook him and so on. Engins point made no sense??
I think there should be a rule where you cant point your arm out to the side. You should not be allowed to go to one side of the table, and point your arm out towards the crowd in a kings move. not only does it make pinning your arm impossible without being significantly stronger, but it makes calling a pin harder for the refs as well, because the arm is way outside of the regular pin area. I think they could simply draw some lines on the table and you cannot point your arm out outside of those lines/angle.
Engin litterally made a video 3-4 years ago saying that what waf says is wrong. The problem shouldnt be the safeness but the unfair advantage. Just watch the video before talking.
hello, I would like to see the original dialogue between Engin and Devon. Taking into account that we cant see the full arguments of both, I personally think Kings Move should be regulated , as you mention it is covered by WAF rules. I am a little surprised by this heated discussion because in last supermatches, Devon didn't use Kings move or only very partially. It looks like since he was cured by stem cells, he uses a more conventional armwrestling style in his matches and successfully so. If people, and i mean Master Referees and top level armwrestlers think the rules need to be changed, they can make a proposal to WAF Referees Panel. Ok, then I am not a top level armwrestler like Engin and Devon, but i think the rules are fine as they are now. For information of vieuwers, I am finalist at World and European Championship. If you look from a broader perspective, Devon explains himself that Kings Move should only be used after more than 15 years in armwrestling. Also, Kings movers are often people who suffer from high elbow calcification, kind of bone difformity. So rules of the sport should not be made for such sub group who suffer from injuries of bone lesions.
@@isaacarzaga4216 most viewed of all time. One of the most entertaining matches ever. Drama and fighting. The pattern of thinking we have to “keep true arm wrestling alive” will end up keeping the sport in the shadows. You can have both. Leagues like WAL and strict WAF style leagues. The league that’s willing to do things differently will be the league to go mainstream with the sport. WAL was on that path before covid.
@@Dmgolfer22 yeah and people used to love to watch baseball bloopers.... ppl love a shitshow but that's not what you use to make your sport a good sport
Engin Terzi has contributed immensely to the sport and is often seen as a Messiah in the arm wrestling world for his organizational efforts. However, his nervous issues and his struggle to accept differing opinions can be challenging. It might be best for him to focus on what he excels at behind the scenes.
There have been a lot of arm breaks lately in usa. Its the amatures and women. Refs sometimes will mention they will stop the match if they see a fucked up position in the amatures. And i totally agree with it. IN AMATURES
we just need AW competition in america/canada so no more problems with engin and devon sometimes the sport needs to do what the fans/participants need to evolve the sport to evolve something we need to do mistakes thats life
devon and todd love the bi*ch move just because they got a bone lock, they don’t give a f about “testing the frame” i really hope engin wont allow this move
If the press like Kamil does is allowed then the kings move shld be as well. Its easier to beat the kingsmove when that's engaged on their losing side rather than a full body behind a press on go.
Kings move below the table should not be legalized but in open category it should be coz the heavier guy has a clear advantage and the other guy needs something to hold him
The kings move, and particularly Devons and Michaels, is an abuse of the pin pad by turning the back edge of the pin pad into a fulcrum. When you slightly slip your elbow crown over the back edge of the pad, it gives you a huge leverage advantage over your opponent. It is in this abuse of turning the back edge of the pin pad into a fulcrum point is where the cheating takes place.
If we go by definitions Kingsmoves : you give up your arm to gain advantage with the hand/wrist (pronation, riser) Flop Press : you give up your hand/wrist to gain advantage with your arm Both are highly at risks of injury and prone to cheat (lot of flop presser don't start shoulders square) IMO if you ban the kingsmove you ban the flop press as well
Bro we talking about banning kingmove with shoulder BELOW THE TABLE its still legal if shoulder didnt go that low. By the way the flop press already illegal IF shoulder cross the center of the table if it didnt u can still use flop press same condition with kingmove shoulder below the table or not.
Did that happen on the Jerry and Alex podcast? I went to watch it a little later and it was gone. I figured somethin happened or engin got mad about somethin
Devon hit his limit with Dave Chaffee. Then in their last match Devon go under table and win. With Michael Todd he hit his limit again . In last match Devon crawl under table again. He.did win. Last 2 rime with Levan he lost badly. Now he pushing rules, so he can get under table.
I agree with a couple things you said, for example; and while i dont think it's a very big deal, i do think they should at least clarify in the rules that it's not because it's "dangerous", but because it creates a situation where it's better to be the weaker guy, so you can just rest and let the stronger opponent tire himself out. I'm not sure how they would word that, but a simple "unfair advantage in a losing position" would be ok IMO. I gotta say Devon is being very selfish at this point.
I just think more moves in arm wrestling is more interesting. Legalize the kings move. Otherwise, anyone who wins a point by leaning way over and finally under the table to secure the win should begin receiving fouls as well.
Bro, why are you promoting desperation move? All the elites including John except Devon are against desperation move. Using bonelock is an unfair advantage as simple as that. Armwrestling is fighting for the win. Pulling backwards, trying to cup etc. Etc. All those you mentioned earlier are fighting. Desperation move is running away. It is like you keep trying to pin me, I will keep running away by going more and more left straightening my arm. By the way, you are already lost if your arm is straightened. That opponent did that to you. Just changing the perspective and angle of your arm and saying no, I am not pinned yet is meaningless. Tomorrow, someone will stand beside the opponent instead of in front of the opponent in the name of Kings move.
I actually don't think Engin was being hypocritical at all with regards to the WAF rules. Just because you agree that WAF rules should be followed, doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with the exact reasons for why the rules are the way they are.
Let me clarify this....kings move works for dev n Mike as they both have insane pronation n bone lock Can you use bone lock to your advantage?....yes off course you can...it's like saying levan has an undue advantage just because his hands are bigger...to me it's silly in a few years people will get bone locks in 90⁰ angle then what will be the excuse??? If your bone locks at 90⁰ it's still a toproll not a kings move 😂😂😂....or to bring all this to an end just bring a rule that says if the elbow streches to it's max capacity then it's a pin...or make the pin pads taller so that your respective opponent will get pinned before going to a kings move
Nobody would love Devon as much as I did , but rn the bulls--- going on is crazy , it's funny how even you kinda aren't supporting Engin , Devon has went completely crazy after getting destroyed by Levan . It's not Devon vs Levan anymore , now it's arm-wrestling vs Devon . He just can't change things so easily only bcz he is popular , I'm with Engin 100% .
Imo the kimgs love is less muscles vs more muscles.so it should be allowed to drop under just not all the way.i think the top of the shoulder shouldnt be able to break the tables level.period.so it would be a little more under the table than they allow now but not all the way.
Okay allow kings move guys and lets see how everyone training kings move and when the competition starts everybody baam !under the table so cool to watch right 🤣 ridiculous I mean,just imagine all the athletes develop kings move after legalization, hah so funny😂😂 Just imagine for seacond , there is 5 table aaand , dont moveee goo and baang everyone squating into the kings move 🤣🤣 then some stranger asks me , bro what is this sport , how can i tell him that this is armwrestling and this is a cool sport , when both of them standing like shit for about how many minutes i cant even imagine hahah
Except the king's move used to be allowed but we only saw a handful of elite pullers use it. You know why? Because it's a really hard hard technique to use.
@@hugohoeglund1424 i get it but,dude i used it also and guy who was pining me got stuck and we were stuck until he gassed up himself 🤣 imagine he also got down under the table , i mean its useful but in elit level when you have ambition to become top you also have responsibility to not to show Milions of people how you get down under the table cuz you want to win paycheck and number one title ,am i wrong ?
@@davitgambarashvili913 you are indeed wrong. You beating your friend means literally nothing. If your king's move is that good, why don't you go to a local competition and see how well it works there? Elite arm wrestlers dedicate their lives to become the best, they go into arm break positions and abuse massive amounts of peds to win, but you think they're drawing the line at going under the table so as to not be seen doing so? Get real.
@@hugohoeglund1424 no brother you didnt get it fundamentally ,what im trying to say , its not about me beating someone , its about how that develops armwrestling .im not saying they should not risk arm break or something but when the shoulder goes down and arm is straight you have to brake it and in elit level it is almost impossible to brake, if its allowed just imagine every athlet will adapt that and will strengthen straight arm position and if one squats other will follow if not ,he will fricking gass out man come onnn 😂 i believe most of armwrestlers and fans dont want to watch squatwrestling 😂😂 jus imagine levan masters kingsmoving hahah no one on this earth will frikin pin him ,they still cant , but still like cmon
@@hugohoeglund1424 the thing is, arm wrestling is still developing. if we make kings move legal, EVERYONE will eventually learn it because its the best and EASIEST move once you learn it correctly. You literally get to rest on your bone lock while your opponent struggles
If he starts answering people gonna hate him Everyone thinks different Must of them also have some valid points about their opinions So questioning is a wiser option here
4:50 100% right, the match has to start after the go. 10 min setup kills the views, can't show anything to friends
Yes there's ready go for reason
And people use Devon's argument to justify the way he takes advantages in the setup
@@amporg1285 yeah nobody els take advantage only devon. Good everybody else is so fair 🤣 come on, why you think a guy like ermes always get alot of fouls before the go. Yeah think one more time👍
@@jocke8672 maybe because vitaly's arm is twice as long as Ermes'. And fouls don't mean nothing, if they meant something Devon would lose every match on fouls
It’s the rules. WAL had really quick and fast starts. Getting your giro and refs grip can be brutal. WAF style is not best for ppv.
It's NOT about the dangerous position. There's tons of dangerous positions for arm break, and they are not illegal. It's about using the leverage of your bone locked out at max stretch against someone who has to use some type of muscle involved to finish the match.
This. My mind is blown how pradeep didnt mention this. It's armwrestling with a straight arm. Using your body weight on a bone lock as a leverage. You need to pin the whole body or break the arm.
BUT the original rule created in WAF that shoulder cannot go below elbow pad level in neutral or losing position WAS about dangerous position. So theoretically Devon is correct when it comes to the original rules.
Exactly
Not only that but to use a straight arm to pull your opponents downwards in an almost hanging position with the use of bodyweight makes it very favourable and draining.
Most do these guys arms don’t straighten, so there is no bone lock. It’s torn tendons /connective tissue and scar tissue
The kings move is not arm wrestling... It's hiding under the table and should be illegal. It also makes it near impossible to pin because of the orientation of the arm. So I agree with engin, I'm worried about the other guy while Devon takes all the stress off of his arm to wear the other guy out. To see Devon whine about that is because he thinks he's not strong enough without it!
Eat my a
Im not a biggest fan of kings move but I accept it as one of techniques because you cannot just "hide under the table" and win easy.. it doesnt work that way.. I have tried KM in sparring and it definitely needs some serious strength and knowledge to do that.. I wish it would be that easy that you just relax your arm and wait for opponent to get tired 😂
Dropping the shoulder below the table during a winning position should be banned too if the rule is to be consistent. The partial implementation of that rule in neutral or losing is mad sus
@@siddusomcompletely different
Pradeep, the kingsmove shouldn't be allowed in armwrestling. Armwrestling is a contest to see who can make their opponent's hand touch the pad first. In order to do this you must open your opponent's arm up or force them to give up because they cannot stop their arm from opening without following their hand to the pad with their body. My point is simple, the way you train ARMwrestling revolves around not letting your ARM open. When someone's ARM is completely opened (for them), then their ARMwrestling strength has failed them and it should be a loss because it shows they are weaker at armwrestling. I think the shoulder below the table in a losing position rule, is a good place to draw the line of whether or not someone's ARM is completely opened, that is why I think the kingsmove being legal is bs. Open toproll is okay since the one performing the move still has some sort of strength that hasn't yet failed (example: pronation through the thumb) rather than just completely relying on a bone lock. Bottom line, if the kingsmove is allowed, I believe the only people at the top will be people with weird elbow locks like Devon and Michael Todd, and not necessarily people that are genuinely strong at armwrestling (not saying Devon and Michael aren't genuinely strong at armwrestling lol) like Levan, Ermes, Georgie, Morozov, etc. Kingsmove being allowed will favor an extremely small minority of people while basically screwing the majority of armwrestlers over, and might even encourage armwrestlers to try to make their elbows tight and lock like Devons (not healthy) rather than focusing on actual armwrestling strength.
My only discerning point is that it seems that the majority of fans dislike the kings move. And aren’t fans the key to growth of the sport?
Was there a poll? I saw a livestream where the majority of fans were in favor of the move.
@@getwhatyougive there are tremendous amount of Devon's fanboys who are gonna blindly follow every thing he says. That's why.
I'm part of an aw club with -40 members and all (100%) think that kings move is boring as hell to watch
@@jke739 Good for you. Boring is grounds for banning.
There is a huge difference between devons king move and todds . As long as your arm is bent not straight i dont count it as a kings move
I remember an army of Devon's fanboys hating kingsmove after Devon lost MMT couple years ago. Now seems like these guys changed their mind... just a little bit 😂😂
Am I a part of that Army?
@@ARMWRESTLINGNEWZ I wasn't saying it about you, but about crazy about of people in the comments spamming "let it break" and etc.
Todd was under the table with kings move 😂
@@Aryan000 yes my friend, and Devon wants this shit back to use himself)
What army are you part of??? The levon nutrida army??😂😂
Everyone is missing the point here. There should never be one man deciding these rules. EVREY major sport has a panel of board or commission voting and the majority rules. Engin should have "one" vote. Dana white owns the UFC but this doesn't give him the authority to make and dictate the rules. It should be debated and voted on just like any other professional sport. Engin shouldn't get to be a dictator of the sport.
He can make whatever rule he wants for east vs west, if you don't like it, then watch UFC where things are done the way you like it.
@ricardoxot yes I know that he technically can. But just as I don't like to live in Turkey under Erdogan, the people/ppv will rebel against East vs West if it's run like a dictatorship. I'm not putting my American dollars on a sport that does not have a democracy. There will be other options to watch armwrestling, there was before east vs west and there will be after. Be humble, don't be a bully🙏❤️
@@Oldskinnyarm people clearly don't mind "dictatorship" on east vs west, it was under Engin that the biggest armwrestling event was made, east vs west 12 broke all records of ppv sales of any and all armwrestling events. Cope harder because devon lost.
@ricardoxot you can't be an American and be okay with dictatorship. Where are you from?
@@ricardoxot of course east vs west 12 broke records because EvW basically has a monopoly on arm wrestling. Devon vs Levan couldve happened at any promotion and broke PPV records. Literally look at last EvW Levan and Devon's PRACTICE PULL after the show it got more views than every single match combined
Remember the WAL Devon VS Chaffee match? I never ever wanna see something like that again. End of discussion.
I remember 😂😂
yeah that was embarrassing, can’t believe devon was actually proud of that win
Yes i remember too. Kingsmove simply that when the opponent is stronger than you
@@UntungSugihharto It was just awefull to watch.
I feel like if the pin pad is raised up an inch it would solve it
Engin is short tempered guy
*Yes*
Roid rage and being greedy will do that to you
And short...shortmans complex..napolean will call him
@@massdupp Logical fallacy. Then tall people can't rage in similar fashion or have a short-temper? Are you some projection prophet now?
@@Despondhello Mr 'takes you tube comments completely seriously' what a loser you must be to hang around...
Btw I just tried to test it myself.
I tired kingsmoving with shoulder above the table and my friend easily pinned me. I put the shoulders below the table, and I was holding him easily.
I made my friend try with the shoulder above, and I was easil pinning him. He went under the table, I couldn't budge
You guys must have some conditioned elbows.
Now try toprolling without going under the table 😂
Thats still anecdotal
@@ARMWRESTLINGNEWZ bro it's not impossible to finish opponent with a toproll without going under the table. Watch someone like Tautiev for example.
@@OlegOlexievyeah and levan would of never won against ermes if he could not go under the table in a winning position toproll. But no one talks about it. The more you give the athletes the more the sport can evolve
@@secktox5225no everybody finish the other guy in a winning position going under its ok. But to defend like the desperation move is both cowardly and dangerous and its kinda cheating thats why its banned.
Engin arm got broken maybe in 2006 against a kingmover and he never was the same after that.
that's why he hates it.
Well this video just needs to be watched by both Devon and Engin. And then Pradeep, Devon, John, Michael Todd and Engin need to have a podcast to discuss and clear everything.😂😂
Engin is a baby way too often, he needs to lighten up. People are going to have their opinions.
We need bald Pradeep back
Long live the bald referees 😂😂
There should always be a path to the pin pad without having to break someone's structure or hurt your opponent. Going shoulder below the table in a defensive position does not allow for such a path.
Going under the table in kings move means locking every single joint of your arm...
It's *_arm_* wrestling anymore...
Let's Remember School boy vs Khaled.
That has been one of the worst match I've ever seen, It Was disgusting to see the stronger man lose.
King's move is unfair, Because If you never trained against it you can lose a match pretty easy.
Now try to imagine, You train so hard, putting all you have in the sport, and then you lose with a King's move guy. That's mad.
I have been training and competing for 1 year and a half, I never pulled against a King's move, Because in my club no one use that shit. The point is: It is not easy to find someone that use this move, so it is not easy to train against it.
When you compete, train and spend so much time in the sport, its a very Simple concept to understand. All this shit, King's move, load before the go, being tricky in the set up, should be banned. This move isn't about being technical or strong, It's just unfair behaviour.
You can't understand that my friend because you are just a viewer, I don't know if you have ever competed in some sport in your life , But for sure you don't know anything about SPORTMANSHIP or be respectful to your opponent.
Engin's right about no desperation move in the sport lol
2:30 well said
That's why I am all in for the old-school sit-down armwresting.
Yesssss.. Virginia nationals
I want to address dangerous moves in amateur arm wrestling. Yes, Pradeep, it's the responsibility of the athlete to keep themselves safe. The issue is that at the amateur level, the officials, promoters and referees don't always know the knowledge level of the competing athlete. Have they been arm wrestling for years as an amateur and know how to keep themselves safe, or have they just arm wrestled their friends and decided they should compete at an amateur competition without any real knowledge of the sport.
You know I've shot thousands of arm wrestling videos with amateurs. Especially when a camera is pointed at them, they want to win at all costs and don't even realize they have gone into a dangerous position. The excitement of the match can cloud their judgement when they haven't had training to understand and avoid dangerous positions. As an athlete and promoter, I'd rather keep the athletes from making a bad decision.
It's not about losing money from sponsors due to an arm break or other injury. It's about looking out for the well being of the athlete. When they reach the professional level, they can do what they want within the rules.
By the way, I was arm wrestling in Arizona last year at a practice. Of course, everyone wants to beat up on Adam The Bodybuilder Bully. A kid that has been training for 2 years wanted to beat me badly. He couldn't move my arm. He went into a break arm position so quickly, there was no time to stop him, and he instantly broke his arm against me. He claimed that he "tested his frame" often and didn't expect it to happen. Unfortunately for him, it happened. Honestly, it traumatized me a bit.
Stop writing stories on here because im not reading thia
First problem with queeinsmove is that is cheating and nonsense, dangerus postiton is just strawman.
The queen's move should be abolished from the sport. I agree with Engin!
Engin has a problem with the sin/vice of wrath/anger/rage, and it may be rooted in pride/arrogance/selfishness
Either going below the table should be a foul or not. Being in a winning or losing position should not matter. I personally would like to see everything be above the table, but as long as it is consistent, I do not mind too much either way.
I personally do not like the Kings Move. It looks silly when Devon and Michael Todd are laying down under the table.
Levan who is the king always does that.
Anything to say about that?
@@vaibhavgupta7076 dun liik et
There’s nothing wrong with the kings move, it’s just another technique in AW today, the sport definitely needs to evolve. There’s a counter move for every technique. No one wants to see everyone AW the same way all the time.
Wanna get rid of the kings move and see who has the strongest arms? Then go back to set down arm wrestling! Richard Lupkes never lost a match in set down arm wrestling 👍🇺🇸
@@Florida239 kings move is already been banned from the sport.
@@Dmgolfer22 good it’s about time, how are they going to officiate it? Is it a foul restart, or is it a loss and win for the other guy?
Love sitdown.
No more bs kings move at all. It’s arm wrestling not arm surviving.
Engin terzi threatened to Devon to leak some of his personal information I watched the whole live and that point of video engin was very angry because Devon was nonstop talking about desperation move for more than hour while being stopped by engin multiple times " I should have screen recorderd it was the most weird hilarious lives ever say
Thanks for sharing that, I only watched a few minutes. After losing to Levan he seems insane about the kings move. Looks like he believes he could won with it
@@PinyataSpirit your welcome.I agree
@@PinyataSpiritdevon said there was nothing he could of did to win the match so thats false
@@brycensfishing3149 One thing is being politically correct other thing is what you really believe
@PinyataSpirit Devon is pretty salty about his loses against Levan. If you look at his body language and the way he acts when he's with Levan he seems quite weird and hurt emotionally
King's move IS an unfair advantage. However, do we need to ban every unfair advantage? No. In some fighting games you can spam a simple combo which stun locks the enemy and you win, it is an advantage and completely legal but it is banned in all competitions because it is "disgraceful". A sport is not only about winning, there should be honour and respect in it. The people who are very strict about rules are not honourable people because they look only for loopholes and advantages to win. It is a competition of skill and strength, not of bullying, cheating and being unfair.
If all risk should be left up to the athletes, then why stop boxing matches or force players to wear protective equipment in various sports? Even in gymnastics there are banned skills due to safety concerns.
Some even wanna leave it up to the fans too. 😂
The shoulder under the table not being a foul in a winning position is easily explained for the exact opposite reason it is a foul in a losing position:
The musculature is involved, not the bone structure. I don't see why this is confusing to some people.
This is arm-wrestling, not Devon-wrestling, it is ridiculous to change rules for one guy!
Weak guys like Devon and Auden kills the excitement for new audience by taking 15 mins in the setup.. Guys like Levan and Vitaly hardly take any time in the setup, they just run through the opponent makes it look more manly.. That being said
Auden and Devon should go for Barbora next
"Weak guys"🤣
Armwrestling is a combination of IQ and strength. We know by your name that strength is your thing but some have IQ.
Weak 😂 look who's talking saying the Person that have the strength of an infant 😂
@@Oldskinnyarm Ah yes, the high IQ strategy of bitchin for 10 minutes and cheating in the setup just to get steamrolled by Levan just to bitch some more lmfaoooooooooo
”Weak” Devon destroyed ermes, evegny, georgi, denis, micheal todd, dave without the kings move…
Engin is just saying he doesn’t give a shit about the 3 people who can make a living off that move
@@joshwaltrich5930 3 people?
4 people then
@@JustinDeep-op1ix I mean who those 3 or 4 people are? 1st is Devon, 2nd is MMT, but who are the 3rd and 4th guys?
@@joymukherjee2453Denis
@@joymukherjee2453Khaled
"DESPERATION PINOCCHIO"
- Engin Terzi
Your take on safety is spot on, it’s the puller’s responsibility
3:50 needed at amateur because some of them DON'T know they risk an armbreak
Engin is absolutely right on this one
Ye the ban is total bull, now the Russians like vitaly want to ban the flop press all of a sudden, before it was the kings move. Just whatever valid arm positional move that they haven’t learned how to do or can’t do, they now want to ban it. Eventually if will be illegal to do anything other than a straight side pressure beginner move. If you can go extreme inside with a shoulder committed flop press, you should be able to go extreme outside with an under the table kings move. It’s a natural part of arm wrestling and you know because most beginners will naturally gravitate to either a shoulder press or a kings move on their first ever practice. The kings move, like the flop press, requires a crazy amount of skill and specific strength (and genetics), that’s why most people, including vitaly and engin etc, couldn’t do it effectively if they tried. They’re semi butt hurt they can’t do the move themselves. It’s also a faux masculinity thing ‘only hook or high posting toproll is manly’
The main reason of king's move ban is that some pullers have a joint lock in the elbow where they can rest comfortable and let their opponent gas out.
Moreover to break an arm it takes a lot of power and when you have stretched your opponent arm you are likely at your limit and even if you are willing to break your opponent arm you will most likely get tired and lose the match.
Great points as usual Pradeep 🔥
I like Devon, but no way should king's move be allowed. Look at Todd, as soon as "shoulder above the table" rule was implemented he started losing. It is an unfair advantage and it has nothing to do with arm breaking (let it break or whatever the bs slogan is). I still like Devon and I think he is an inspiration but he is wrong on this one.
If you are allowed to go below the table in winning position then why not in losing position. Because you get unfair advantage. Then what about the unfair advantage you are getting while winning.
If you can use the structure of your body to press someone then why not use your structure to defend yourself from getting pinned using kingsmove
I am not defending devon but I am saying the rules need serious revisiting.
One thing that can be done is instead of completely banning kingsmove allow its use in small portions of the match. Like for example if your opponent cannot pin you while keeping your shoulder above then as soon as he goes below the table to pin you, you can also go below the table for kingsmove but at your own arm's risk. The moment your opponents gets positive elbow you get like 2sec to also come above. The same thing for a complete press. As soon as the opponent's shoulder is on top of hand and wrist you are allowed for kingsmove.
This is just my idea. Can be very wrong.🙂
arent we gonna talj about the fact that to even get in a winning position you need to have more side pressure than you opponent and to get in a press you first have to get in position to transition first unlike the under table kings moves where to get there you only need to to squat and hope your arm doesnt break so not sure what unfair advantage you are talking about
@@khabeesschool9919 i'm not talking about the side pressure. Yes you need side pressure to go to that position but if your side pressure is not enough to pin your opponents hand then why go below the table? That is unfair advantage. Going under the table for pinning completely finishes the chance of comeback of endurance arm wrestlers who holds their arm inches above the pad in hopes of tiring their opponent. What I am thinking is simple, if you can use your body weight and structure to win then you can also use it to defend.
But I can somewhat agree with you on the press because it also uses a lot of triceps. But what you said does not hold for Kamil jablonski like arm wrestlers who are allowed to start in a press. No transition.
@@pritamsarma7531 look man going under the table to pin your opponents is not going to be a pin by using structure it just involves the arm so you can use your arm strength to pin which is musculature
@@khabeesschool9919 did you ever compete in a tournament? I also used to think like you a year ago. But when I participated for the first time, I was not able to pin one guy even though I was winning. So I just dropped my shoulder and sat under the table. I was given a foul first and when I did second time I was disqualified. When I argued about being legal one of the top arm wrestlers there showed me how powerful, unfair and dirty that move looked. He said one way to counter this is the dangerous kingsmove which is not legal so this is also not legal.
@@pritamsarma7531 were you perhaps pushing your opponent outside of their shoulder in that position or were in losing position? Because going under the table in an winning position just uses your arm more instead of side pressure
alcohol example was the best thing you said
Sleeping on the floor is not armwrestling
Wow u know about arm wrestling, well if we see are wrestling was earlier only hand power then technical body use and Now kings wrong then what's wrong nigga?
This is a clean setup for vids. 👌🏼
Appreciate it
#stopthequeensmove
if your arm is completely flattened out straight it should be a pin through technicality that your arm is straight therefore should have been pinned at any reasonable angle, regardless if its touching the pinpad or not
Exactly, this is what I mentioned in my comment. Just changing your perspective and arm angle and saying it's not touching the pin pad even if it's straightened is pure stupidity
Thats the reason everyone hates devon..... nobody likes queen's move.....
Everyone being over 21.
Yeh another common hater identified which is you 😂
@@Armfan17being over 21 and hating on a guy you don't know is very sad
@@LaddRusso91 I have seen a lot from him and I am able to judge. I have been watching him for years now and I judge what I see.
I though you were smarter. The only reason Devon wants that rule is because he has a bone stop, but it should not be allowed there is 0 muscule involved, he wants to use his bones, besides look absurd and ugly. If the arm is stright, you should lose at that point, no advantage for long lever guys.
It’s called arm wrestling not muscle wrestling you should able to use want ever position you wants if it’s with his arm lol.
@@StompDown709 are you on drugs
Is Engin the decision maker for everything now? Why is there not a committee of some sort?
Because he started EvsW
Yes. He owns EvsW and indirectly partially KOTT too
This is about armwrestling fundamentals. An extended arm using leverage has nothing to do with strength. You fundamentally lost the armwrestling match. The only reason your hand isn't on the pad is because you're using the elbow pad as a fulcrum.
Maine professional arm wrestlers arms do not extend completely anymore. When you drop your shoulder below the table it gives you a mechanical advantage. Michael Todd made a living of it during WAL. Notice he's not nearly as successful now. Ban the kings move forever.
I get your point about everything being an unfair advantage. However, for many things, it's extremely difficult for the refs to tell if one person is gaining an advantage over the other since it's so subtle. But the under the table kings move is so obvious for the refs, why not enforce it? Sure, in a perfect world the refs would see everything and make the match perfectly fair. But just because the refs can't make everything perfectly fair, doesn't mean they can't call a foul on something as obvious as the under the table kings move.
Seeing Devon use his popularity to try and bully the guy who built such a great platform for international arm wrestling is disgusting. Devon and Jodi deserve each other. They are both petty, egomaniacal people.
Pulling your oponent towards you is the absolute main objective of the sport. If he can't handle your backpressure and his elbow comes off the pad, that's on him.
PUSHING your oponent off the pad is totally different.
Would sponsors really pull out over an arm break?
Do news sponsors pull out over bad news?
Yeah i dont understand why not allow kings move, many say is because you use your bones and not muscle, but in the case Jerry move which is flop press has to be banned because he use all his skeleton, and the funny thing is that is more difficult to beat a flop presser than a kings mover
Flop press is not bones, you're using your triceps, still more legal than the kingsmove
@@amporg1285 haha still people in 2024 that thinks You use triceps when You press in armwrestling, My friend see how devon press Jerry, and Jerry has a very big and powerful tríceps, it's not about tríceps, it's about line your shoulder and use your frame.
@@richardsonr.m8257 it's also the frame, but 80% is triceps. Of course if your shoulder is not aligned you can't use your triceps, and when Devon pressed Jerry he was in a counter position. How come all the presser train their triceps constantly (Jerry, Kamil)? Learn physics
Nice analysis Pradeep! It is refreshing to see someone that actually puts effort into understanding both perspectives and fully watching the context surround a controversy 👍
On this my friend...we agree. Love the whole breakdown.
8:30 great point by engin??? Both u and engin are dumb, kingsmove is a skill, just like any other move in armwrestling and elbow foul is not - i can elbow foul agenst levan, but i cant kingsmove him or hook him and so on. Engins point made no sense??
I think there should be a rule where you cant point your arm out to the side. You should not be allowed to go to one side of the table, and point your arm out towards the crowd in a kings move. not only does it make pinning your arm impossible without being significantly stronger, but it makes calling a pin harder for the refs as well, because the arm is way outside of the regular pin area.
I think they could simply draw some lines on the table and you cannot point your arm out outside of those lines/angle.
I think it can be allowed in Superheavy weight category, because in Superheavy weight it gives lot of weight difference between the athletes.
Engin litterally made a video 3-4 years ago saying that what waf says is wrong. The problem shouldnt be the safeness but the unfair advantage. Just watch the video before talking.
hello, I would like to see the original dialogue between Engin and Devon. Taking into account that we cant see the full arguments of both, I personally think Kings Move should be regulated , as you mention it is covered by WAF rules. I am a little surprised by this heated discussion because in last supermatches, Devon didn't use Kings move or only very partially. It looks like since he was cured by stem cells, he uses a more conventional armwrestling style in his matches and successfully so.
If people, and i mean Master Referees and top level armwrestlers think the rules need to be changed, they can make a proposal to WAF Referees Panel. Ok, then I am not a top level armwrestler like Engin and Devon, but i think the rules are fine as they are now. For information of vieuwers, I am finalist at World and European Championship. If you look from a broader perspective, Devon explains himself that Kings Move should only be used after more than 15 years in armwrestling. Also, Kings movers are often people who suffer from high elbow calcification, kind of bone difformity. So rules of the sport should not be made for such sub group who suffer from injuries of bone lesions.
Yeah! i already have tought about that toproll on wining position below the table
Engin wants to keep true armwrestling alive. Whoever believes the Devon Vs Dave match was good is kidding themselves. Keep it real
@@isaacarzaga4216 most viewed of all time. One of the most entertaining matches ever. Drama and fighting. The pattern of thinking we have to “keep true arm wrestling alive” will end up keeping the sport in the shadows. You can have both. Leagues like WAL and strict WAF style leagues. The league that’s willing to do things differently will be the league to go mainstream with the sport. WAL was on that path before covid.
@@Dmgolfer22 yeah and people used to love to watch baseball bloopers.... ppl love a shitshow but that's not what you use to make your sport a good sport
Engin Terzi has contributed immensely to the sport and is often seen as a Messiah in the arm wrestling world for his organizational efforts. However, his nervous issues and his struggle to accept differing opinions can be challenging. It might be best for him to focus on what he excels at behind the scenes.
The repeatedly deleted videos, are the stamp for that.
Good points Pradeep
There have been a lot of arm breaks lately in usa. Its the amatures and women. Refs sometimes will mention they will stop the match if they see a fucked up position in the amatures. And i totally agree with it. IN AMATURES
No illegal king's move for me
we just need AW competition in america/canada so no more problems with engin and devon
sometimes the sport needs to do what the fans/participants need to evolve the sport
to evolve something we need to do mistakes thats life
There's knuckles up
Not really. The desperation move is wrong plain and simple.
devon and todd love the bi*ch move just because they got a bone lock, they don’t give a f about “testing the frame”
i really hope engin wont allow this move
Sure they didn’t work hard to arrive that point…
@@tomasquevedo3735 so we should just declare them the grand champions and let everyone else arm wrestle
Let Devon keep being Devon. He’s only destroying his love boy fan base. Devon is nothing but a Jake Paul anymore
If the press like Kamil does is allowed then the kings move shld be as well. Its easier to beat the kingsmove when that's engaged on their losing side rather than a full body behind a press on go.
If it's going to be a true athletic competition then Devon is right you have to learn to evolve the sport and not hinder it based on one simple rule
I was thinking the same Homelander analogy second before you said it ahahaha
Kings move gives an unfair advantage to people with elbows that don’t extend all the way. What is that so hard for people to understand?
Kings move below the table should not be legalized but in open category it should be coz the heavier guy has a clear advantage and the other guy needs something to hold him
Devon Larratt devon Larratt devin Larratt and devin Larratt
The kings move, and particularly Devons and Michaels, is an abuse of the pin pad by turning the back edge of the pin pad into a fulcrum. When you slightly slip your elbow crown over the back edge of the pad, it gives you a huge leverage advantage over your opponent. It is in this abuse of turning the back edge of the pin pad into a fulcrum point is where the cheating takes place.
All great points and logical unlike some fangirls or heters
If we go by definitions
Kingsmoves : you give up your arm to gain advantage with the hand/wrist (pronation, riser)
Flop Press : you give up your hand/wrist to gain advantage with your arm
Both are highly at risks of injury and prone to cheat (lot of flop presser don't start shoulders square)
IMO if you ban the kingsmove you ban the flop press as well
Bro we talking about banning kingmove with shoulder BELOW THE TABLE its still legal if shoulder didnt go that low.
By the way the flop press already illegal IF shoulder cross the center of the table if it didnt u can still use flop press same condition with kingmove shoulder below the table or not.
Did that happen on the Jerry and Alex podcast? I went to watch it a little later and it was gone. I figured somethin happened or engin got mad about somethin
Devon still thinks he could have beaten Levan with the Kings Move. 😂
Yes at first I thought he was just joking
Yep maybe
But what evidence shows that levan would have beaten devon's kings move?
@@XeMeow when he tore through it with his flop press lmao
only thing missing was levan asking "where you goin buddy"
He's stated multiple times it wouldn't have changed the result
Absolutely fuck that kings move.
Devon hit his limit with Dave Chaffee. Then in their last match Devon go under table and win. With Michael Todd he hit his limit again . In last match Devon crawl under table again. He.did win. Last 2 rime with Levan he lost badly. Now he pushing rules, so he can get under table.
"The match doesnt start before the referee saxs go" dude you couldnt have said "i dont know anything about armwrestling" more loudly
I agree with a couple things you said, for example; and while i dont think it's a very big deal, i do think they should at least clarify in the rules that it's not because it's "dangerous", but because it creates a situation where it's better to be the weaker guy, so you can just rest and let the stronger opponent tire himself out. I'm not sure how they would word that, but a simple "unfair advantage in a losing position" would be ok IMO.
I gotta say Devon is being very selfish at this point.
I just think more moves in arm wrestling is more interesting. Legalize the kings move. Otherwise, anyone who wins a point by leaning way over and finally under the table to secure the win should begin receiving fouls as well.
Bro, why are you promoting desperation move? All the elites including John except Devon are against desperation move. Using bonelock is an unfair advantage as simple as that. Armwrestling is fighting for the win. Pulling backwards, trying to cup etc. Etc. All those you mentioned earlier are fighting. Desperation move is running away. It is like you keep trying to pin me, I will keep running away by going more and more left straightening my arm. By the way, you are already lost if your arm is straightened. That opponent did that to you. Just changing the perspective and angle of your arm and saying no, I am not pinned yet is meaningless. Tomorrow, someone will stand beside the opponent instead of in front of the opponent in the name of Kings move.
I actually don't think Engin was being hypocritical at all with regards to the WAF rules. Just because you agree that WAF rules should be followed, doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with the exact reasons for why the rules are the way they are.
Let me clarify this....kings move works for dev n Mike as they both have insane pronation n bone lock
Can you use bone lock to your advantage?....yes off course you can...it's like saying levan has an undue advantage just because his hands are bigger...to me it's silly in a few years people will get bone locks in 90⁰ angle then what will be the excuse??? If your bone locks at 90⁰ it's still a toproll not a kings move 😂😂😂....or to bring all this to an end just bring a rule that says if the elbow streches to it's max capacity then it's a pin...or make the pin pads taller so that your respective opponent will get pinned before going to a kings move
If Devon could use the Kings move...he would beat Levan... And he knows it
I miss the days when we used to focus our hate toward Igor... what ever happened to that guy?
Engin needs to keep professional and realize people shouldnt have to lick his boots to be able to compete in his promotions.
Nobody would love Devon as much as I did , but rn the bulls--- going on is crazy , it's funny how even you kinda aren't supporting Engin , Devon has went completely crazy after getting destroyed by Levan . It's not Devon vs Levan anymore , now it's arm-wrestling vs Devon . He just can't change things so easily only bcz he is popular , I'm with Engin 100% .
Imo the kimgs love is less muscles vs more muscles.so it should be allowed to drop under just not all the way.i think the top of the shoulder shouldnt be able to break the tables level.period.so it would be a little more under the table than they allow now but not all the way.
No kingsmove. In east vs west
Okay allow kings move guys and lets see how everyone training kings move and when the competition starts everybody baam !under the table so cool to watch right 🤣 ridiculous
I mean,just imagine all the athletes develop kings move after legalization, hah so funny😂😂
Just imagine for seacond , there is 5 table aaand , dont moveee goo and baang everyone squating into the kings move 🤣🤣 then some stranger asks me , bro what is this sport , how can i tell him that this is armwrestling and this is a cool sport , when both of them standing like shit for about how many minutes i cant even imagine hahah
Except the king's move used to be allowed but we only saw a handful of elite pullers use it. You know why? Because it's a really hard hard technique to use.
@@hugohoeglund1424 i get it but,dude i used it also and guy who was pining me got stuck and we were stuck until he gassed up himself 🤣 imagine he also got down under the table , i mean its useful but in elit level when you have ambition to become top you also have responsibility to not to show Milions of people how you get down under the table cuz you want to win paycheck and number one title ,am i wrong ?
@@davitgambarashvili913 you are indeed wrong. You beating your friend means literally nothing. If your king's move is that good, why don't you go to a local competition and see how well it works there? Elite arm wrestlers dedicate their lives to become the best, they go into arm break positions and abuse massive amounts of peds to win, but you think they're drawing the line at going under the table so as to not be seen doing so? Get real.
@@hugohoeglund1424 no brother you didnt get it fundamentally ,what im trying to say , its not about me beating someone , its about how that develops armwrestling .im not saying they should not risk arm break or something but when the shoulder goes down and arm is straight you have to brake it and in elit level it is almost impossible to brake, if its allowed just imagine every athlet will adapt that and will strengthen straight arm position and if one squats other will follow if not ,he will fricking gass out man come onnn 😂 i believe most of armwrestlers and fans dont want to watch squatwrestling 😂😂 jus imagine levan masters kingsmoving hahah no one on this earth will frikin pin him ,they still cant , but still like cmon
@@hugohoeglund1424 the thing is, arm wrestling is still developing. if we make kings move legal, EVERYONE will eventually learn it because its the best and EASIEST move once you learn it correctly. You literally get to rest on your bone lock while your opponent struggles
No need to apologize. There are always more questions than answers from your videos.
If he starts answering people gonna hate him
Everyone thinks different
Must of them also have some valid points about their opinions
So questioning is a wiser option here