Thanks for taking the time to do these tests.I felt it was unbiased and gave the public alot of information that they normally wouldn't have.You may be the only person in the world that have done and posted your findings.That says alot.
Great information. I was a little confused on what to go with, but your video hit on all the information I needed to make my choice. Awesome explanation, I appreciate you taking the time to test and pass it along to others.
2023 Zforce 950 HO EX. Will be running 32” tires and I ordered MSC’s stage 3 trail kit and I noticed my helix is 38-52 with a chrome looking secondary spring and a red primary with 22 weights. Does that sounds right? I trail ride with very low hill climbing and like to get pretty good top speed like you do. Kinda same riding you guys do.
You bet. I felt nobody just shows fact and let’s everyone make the decision for themselves. It’s always this guy is better or this guy and no real facts. I’m glad you liked it
Appreciation given for doing this. Takes a lot of time. I was debating between these two businesses. Considering MSC's extreme professionalism with good QC, they get my biz. Seems RNG has quality issues that he simply needs to clean up as he does offer a good products. Just needs to learn from this testing to improve his biz vs fighting back in an open public forum.
Awesome video. Thank you for the info. I'm curious about stage 2. Is it pointless to change the secondary spring without changing the helix? Is that why you skipped the comparison? What would changing the secondary do that reclocking the stock one wouldn't do? Really trying to wrap my head around how these clutches work
All great questions. I’m not sure if you watched my video released yesterday that covers the “truth and lies” of cfmoto clutching. I do cover everything besides clocking the spring. But as for clocking the spring I’m not a fan of doing because you’re altering something that’s designed to work one way and we’re making it do something different. When you clock your effectively adding spring preload and alternating how it shifts.
So I’d get the stage 3 kit but I’d hold off on putting the stage 2 spring in. But absolutely I’d get the stage 3 and just swap springs when you add the larger tires down the road.
Thank you for providing real data to confirm what a lot of us have been saying for months. Vauhti Varikko is the superior product designed and manufactured by professionals. That idiot RNG must be loosing his mind right now!! 😂 he gets to enjoy a hearty slice of humble pie today.
Rng doesn’t use a shim. Msc does use one to reduce wear and twist on the spring but it’s main function is to space it out if your using an aftermarket belt. If you look at the end of the video I show the wear on the springs including the ends and I believe that’s why the msc spring showed far less wear.
Being the machine is limited to 18mph in low gear I decided to not use it as I couldn’t really show anything with that limiter. But the top speed was 72 mph in high for msc and 68 with rng. The rng kit was at red line while the max kit still had another 400 or so rpm. After talking to msc I’m pretty sure a tune “that will also get rid of that limiter” I probably could’ve gotten around 76-78mph.
So this begs the question, do I need any clutch kit at all or should I stay with the original. Stage 3 is $500 USD. What am I really getting when it comes right down to it because I know what MJM said but below we have people saying RNG is better... What about stock?
All great questions. First off I always ask what kinda riding do you do? The stock setup isn’t a bad setup but as with anything it can be made better. If you riding normal “easy trails” then stock is fine imo. But if your looking for a slight upgrade “better shift and better power/pull” then a stage 1 is a great upgrade. If your looking for more power to spin big tires “on rocks or mud” and still keep your top end I think the stage 3 kit is better. As for the question of rng. He’s a great guy and sells his product well. But imo and in my testing I found it was lacking. It was smooth off the line. But his belt temps were higher and as I showed the paint was flaking off “mine could be a one off issue I’m not sure”. But the msc kit did consistently show cooler temps and imo better grab on the belt. Then look at performance “my goal was to show the same vehicle and day and temps so it was fair to all 3” and msc always did better. As I’ve said if I just rock crawled and was more concerned with that only I think his kit is better for very slow speed control or if I just putted around on our farm all day. But I wanted my top speed and also wanted the power on the bottom end “it’s hard to do with a cvt” as with these it’s a give and take. I felt msc constantly performed better over and over. But back to your main question do you need it “no not really” but if you want a performance gain then yes. I’ve told most people buy a stage 1 and try it out and if you want more just add the helix and secondary spring. Sorry for the long response.
Absolutely when I did these videos my goal was to give everyone raw data so that you guys could see the good and bad of both kits. But good luck and happy riding bud.
All testing was done in high range. The machine is a 2022 Z950 H.O sport. All testing had to be done in high range as the z950 has a factory limiter of 18 mph in low “yes I know it dumb” but I wanted to make no changes to the machine besides the tires.
Great comment actually. All it would do is limit your top speed with running the stock helix so I didn’t bother with the test. Plus rng didn’t offer a secondary spring to use the stock helix.
Belt temp aside, seems like RNG is clearly the winner with Primary Stage 1 with regard to smoothness. What would you think about a setup using RNG Stage 1 and MSC Stage 2 & 3?? Can you mix and match like that? (MSC Stage 1 does not take out the jerk in low range for farm work / plowing).
Rng only wins in my testing in smoothness in takeoff. I know a guy who did use an msc secondary and helix and an rng primary and it was so uncontrollable he immediately pulled it out. So I’d strongly advise not to mix and match them. As for the takeoff the msc kit does take some of it out but there’s a small amount of that clunk but nowhere near as bad.
Silence from the big mouth of RNG?? I’m shocked he’s been able to restrain himself. I guess a giant slice of humble pie smothered in facts is tough to swallow.
It makes sense but after a few rides you will get a little bit of it back. I lost about 5mph off my top end so yours is about the same as mine. Unfortunately with any cvt it’s all give and take you get more down low or more top end.
My yellow spring looks nothing like yours. I’m curious how yours has that much wear but I’ve been running mine longer? And I have both kits and there’s no way MSC is smoother lmao!!
Interesting for sure but that’s what I found so I can only report what’s visible to me. As for the smoothness after adding the helix it did make it rougher “idk why and rng agreed with me that it does” but I found the max kit slightly smoother.
@@bigjoe5659 the reason is the stuffer springs , any manufacturer of a clutch kit for any brand will tell you that you need stiffer springs , that adds tension to the belt , makes it grip better and also hold the rpm higher to make up for the power loss of larger / heavier tires . That is also why the msc kit has a lower temperature as well .
No as I said for me I prefer the MSC kit. It performs better and runs much cooler. Theirs a ton of other videos showing me with the msc kit in mud and trails. I personally think rng is getting better but he lost just about everything besides smoothness off the line. I also cover how his kit revs up extremely quickly and then noses over for some reason. If I was going by the seat of the pants dyno I’d agree with you. Or if I’ve only ran one kit again I might agree with you. But timers don’t care who wins or loses and it’s proven there.
@@micksmithandyasmineadventu794in a way it could be. I think it depends on how fast you go. If your doing 30 I feel the msc kit had more punch. If your trying to 70 on a highway they both offer better kits for road use.
I did go over every portion of the test and read off every number. To be fair it was one of our earlier video and we had 2 cell phones to do the test so we couldn’t get a ton of b roll to show the machine launching. I do apologize for that but as explain many times in plenty of other public videos “even with rng as well” the test was not the end all b all of testing. It was designed to show how they stack up against each other. To show performance and basic info because nobody else had done so. Both parties even agreed the numbers are where they expected them to be. Also just like in this long response I didn’t want to make the video an hour long. So I cut it down and tried making it fast and two the point. That way a general consumer “like yourself” can take the raw data and so what’s most important and then discuss it further with both companies.
R.N.G hands down. MSC is horrible to deal with no call backs and other things. R.N.G will answer you and give you what you need all you have to do is tell him what you want. Also you can't have the best of both worlds if you trail ride and slow speeds the kit will suck on the road and you will lose 10 MPH. If you road ride at top speed leave it stock.
We can definitely agree to disagree. I can’t speak on msc being bad as I got great service from them. Joel made himself available to me when I had questions even at 10pm. Covering the part of you just need to tell rng what you want and he builds it might be accurate but he was the one who helped me pick out the tests “so he had knowledge of how and what I was gonna do”. I do however agree with you that you can’t have the complete best of both worlds but imo the msc kit gave me 95% of what I wanted. Also I showed back to back the stock kit wasn’t as fast as the msc kit overall. I felt rng sells his product well but wasn’t happy with the 65 mph governor he chose to imply on his behalf. I wasn’t happy having to test 2 setups to give everyone the best choice in the test “or give him the best results”. I don’t care for the belt temps either “none were super high” but his was close to 22 degrees hotter on a 28 degree day. But I will say if I was big in rock crawling or very slow speed trail riding his is definitely smoother off the line. Not by much but it’s smoother. That didn’t sway my opinion. I have nothing against rng or msc I in fact wish both the absolute best. But for performance msc was better.
I have delt with MSC for about 2 years now and if I had a question and whoever answered the phone couldn’t answer the question someone would call me back within an hour.
I’m confused would you have liked nothing but launch videos? I tried to keep it around 20 or so minutes but it’s a ton of info to put into that short of a time span as well.
??? So what you’re telling us is that you a a few of your friends also bought one clutch kit from RNG and another clutch kit from MSC then took the time to test and compare them? I don’t think so. Why would you make a comment like that?
@@jameskerns3520I think the main thing to take away is these kits are tested back to back not one weekend and then the next. They could have gotten both kits but then you start talking variations between vehicles as well. I tested both on the same vehicle same day same road and same equipment. I just wanted people to have raw data and then reach out to BOTH companies and nail down what’s best for them.
@@Michaelg0221 I understand and appreciate that. It boils my blood when someone claims you do these things in exchange for free parts or you’re getting paid for your time. Thank you for everything.
Thanks for taking the time to do these tests.I felt it was unbiased and gave the public alot of information that they normally wouldn't have.You may be the only person in the world that have done and posted your findings.That says alot.
Thanks for all your time. Very informative.
Thank you for this video!
Thanks for you’re in depth, honest comparison!
Nice video!
Thank you!
Awesome test. I am a data guy, and this helps the consumer make a decision that works better for them.
Great information. I was a little confused on what to go with, but your video hit on all the information I needed to make my choice. Awesome explanation, I appreciate you taking the time to test and pass it along to others.
What are you building and how big of a tire? Maybe I can help narrow it down a bit more for you.
2023 Zforce 950 HO EX. Will be running 32” tires and I ordered MSC’s stage 3 trail kit and I noticed my helix is 38-52 with a chrome looking secondary spring and a red primary with 22 weights. Does that sounds right? I trail ride with very low hill climbing and like to get pretty good top speed like you do. Kinda same riding you guys do.
This was very good on the info. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I’m glad someone did this comparison I have a 800 ex with 30” tires with the msc stage 3 mud kit and it does good
thanks for your time testing the two kits
You bet. I felt nobody just shows fact and let’s everyone make the decision for themselves. It’s always this guy is better or this guy and no real facts. I’m glad you liked it
Appreciation given for doing this. Takes a lot of time. I was debating between these two businesses. Considering MSC's extreme professionalism with good QC, they get my biz. Seems RNG has quality issues that he simply needs to clean up as he does offer a good products. Just needs to learn from this testing to improve his biz vs fighting back in an open public forum.
Honestly you hit the nail on the head. I agree 100%.
Nice comparison video. Good job
Great video
Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the text hopefully both companies can gain good information from your tests
I hope so too
Good info man. Thanks! - Matt
My pleasure bud I had a ton of fun doing the testing
We bought A23U force 1000 yeah the clutch sucks and this is a great video appreciate it now I know what I want to do.!
Awesome I’m glad you liked it.
Glad I watched this video
Awesome video. Thank you for the info. I'm curious about stage 2. Is it pointless to change the secondary spring without changing the helix? Is that why you skipped the comparison? What would changing the secondary do that reclocking the stock one wouldn't do? Really trying to wrap my head around how these clutches work
All great questions. I’m not sure if you watched my video released yesterday that covers the “truth and lies” of cfmoto clutching. I do cover everything besides clocking the spring. But as for clocking the spring I’m not a fan of doing because you’re altering something that’s designed to work one way and we’re making it do something different. When you clock your effectively adding spring preload and alternating how it shifts.
Great Video.
I have a bone stock 2023 UFORCE 600 but with plans to get 29 inch tires in the future would the stage 3 trail kit work now or do I need to just wait?
So I’d get the stage 3 kit but I’d hold off on putting the stage 2 spring in. But absolutely I’d get the stage 3 and just swap springs when you add the larger tires down the road.
Thank you for this video! One question, for MSC cluth kits 1,2,3, used the same primary spring?
Yes they use the same primary spring. But stage 2 adds the secondary spring and stage 3 adds the helix.
Thanks!
What secondary clocks did you use and how was the back shifting? And did you set proper deflection each time?
Secondary springs were both set to manufacturer specs. Msc was B1 and Rng was C1. The back shift was great on both.
Awesome test! Thankyou! Looks like msc won this hands down! I know rng and Larry Rose will have 100 excuses! Great test again and great product msc!!
I know who RNG is, but who is Larry Rose?
@@rzl07375 Larry is one of rng cronies
@@terrywondrow5834 Oh ok I thought maybe he was another dealer.
Good stuff, so sounds like the MSC setup overall just hits a lil harder.
It's not a MSC setup it's just a rebranded Vhattu Varikko kit..
great video
Glad you enjoyed it
I’m probably getting greedy with your time but do you have any plans on testing Flash Tunes or combination of tunes and clutch kits?
Maybe in the future but I haven’t made any plans to.
Can I run stage 3 trail kit on my 2021 800xc with stock tires?
You can run them with stock tires but it’s going to slow you down some. You will get better acceleration but loose some top end.
Great Video! MSC
Did MSC buy this video, too? 😆
A bit harsh but no. In fact all of it besides both secondary springs and helix’s were paid for out of our pocket. Sorry the facts are facts.
Thank you for providing real data to confirm what a lot of us have been saying for months. Vauhti Varikko is the superior product designed and manufactured by professionals. That idiot RNG must be loosing his mind right now!! 😂 he gets to enjoy a hearty slice of humble pie today.
Are you using the trail or mud kit ?
Trail kit
Did RNG send you a shim with his spring? Or did he have you use one? Msc sends kits with shims but RNG doesnt, just curious on why?
Rng doesn’t use a shim. Msc does use one to reduce wear and twist on the spring but it’s main function is to space it out if your using an aftermarket belt. If you look at the end of the video I show the wear on the springs including the ends and I believe that’s why the msc spring showed far less wear.
I guess this answers the question as to which clutch kit I’ll be purchasing. Thanks
Which one
Very good video , took some time to do for sure.
Thank you
do both clutch kits still have good engine braking?
Yes both have better engine braking over stock.
Good comparison..
Thank you.
Good video👍
What were the top speeds in low in high for both?
Being the machine is limited to 18mph in low gear I decided to not use it as I couldn’t really show anything with that limiter. But the top speed was 72 mph in high for msc and 68 with rng. The rng kit was at red line while the max kit still had another 400 or so rpm. After talking to msc I’m pretty sure a tune “that will also get rid of that limiter” I probably could’ve gotten around 76-78mph.
So this begs the question, do I need any clutch kit at all or should I stay with the original. Stage 3 is $500 USD. What am I really getting when it comes right down to it because I know what MJM said but below we have people saying RNG is better... What about stock?
All great questions. First off I always ask what kinda riding do you do? The stock setup isn’t a bad setup but as with anything it can be made better. If you riding normal “easy trails” then stock is fine imo. But if your looking for a slight upgrade “better shift and better power/pull” then a stage 1 is a great upgrade. If your looking for more power to spin big tires “on rocks or mud” and still keep your top end I think the stage 3 kit is better. As for the question of rng. He’s a great guy and sells his product well. But imo and in my testing I found it was lacking. It was smooth off the line. But his belt temps were higher and as I showed the paint was flaking off “mine could be a one off issue I’m not sure”. But the msc kit did consistently show cooler temps and imo better grab on the belt. Then look at performance “my goal was to show the same vehicle and day and temps so it was fair to all 3” and msc always did better. As I’ve said if I just rock crawled and was more concerned with that only I think his kit is better for very slow speed control or if I just putted around on our farm all day. But I wanted my top speed and also wanted the power on the bottom end “it’s hard to do with a cvt” as with these it’s a give and take. I felt msc constantly performed better over and over. But back to your main question do you need it “no not really” but if you want a performance gain then yes. I’ve told most people buy a stage 1 and try it out and if you want more just add the helix and secondary spring. Sorry for the long response.
@@mjmisadventures950 Thank you .
Absolutely when I did these videos my goal was to give everyone raw data so that you guys could see the good and bad of both kits. But good luck and happy riding bud.
Was this all done in high or low gear. I didn't catch that and on what machine? Thanks
All testing was done in high range. The machine is a 2022 Z950 H.O sport. All testing had to be done in high range as the z950 has a factory limiter of 18 mph in low “yes I know it dumb” but I wanted to make no changes to the machine besides the tires.
What about doing rng stage one with MSc stage 2 kit
Great comment actually. All it would do is limit your top speed with running the stock helix so I didn’t bother with the test. Plus rng didn’t offer a secondary spring to use the stock helix.
What size tires??
30’s were used while testing.
Belt temp aside, seems like RNG is clearly the winner with Primary Stage 1 with regard to smoothness. What would you think about a setup using RNG Stage 1 and MSC Stage 2 & 3?? Can you mix and match like that? (MSC Stage 1 does not take out the jerk in low range for farm work / plowing).
Rng only wins in my testing in smoothness in takeoff. I know a guy who did use an msc secondary and helix and an rng primary and it was so uncontrollable he immediately pulled it out. So I’d strongly advise not to mix and match them. As for the takeoff the msc kit does take some of it out but there’s a small amount of that clunk but nowhere near as bad.
Silence from the big mouth of RNG?? I’m shocked he’s been able to restrain himself. I guess a giant slice of humble pie smothered in facts is tough to swallow.
He posted a response in a video the other day talking about rpm, and he called CF Moto directly
@@rzl07375 Or someone he claimed was CF Moto. That could have been anyone of his cronies. The call sounded so fake.
@@brianengelhardt6650 sounded like a salesman that had no idea what RNG was going on about.
He left a lot of data out I could perform the same tests with different results
RNG is a big mouth know it all. Can't stand that guy. I ordered a kit from him was terrible.
Hi ,I installed the stage 3 trail to my 1000 overland n lost 7 k per hr on top end .
It makes sense but after a few rides you will get a little bit of it back. I lost about 5mph off my top end so yours is about the same as mine. Unfortunately with any cvt it’s all give and take you get more down low or more top end.
Thanks!
My yellow spring looks nothing like yours. I’m curious how yours has that much wear but I’ve been running mine longer? And I have both kits and there’s no way MSC is smoother lmao!!
Interesting for sure but that’s what I found so I can only report what’s visible to me. As for the smoothness after adding the helix it did make it rougher “idk why and rng agreed with me that it does” but I found the max kit slightly smoother.
I have both kits and I’m 💯 the RNGs is smoother and better in the mid rage than MSCs. MSC had 2 mph top speed. It makes no sense at all.
@@bigjoe5659 the reason is the stuffer springs , any manufacturer of a clutch kit for any brand will tell you that you need stiffer springs , that adds tension to the belt , makes it grip better and also hold the rpm higher to make up for the power loss of larger / heavier tires . That is also why the msc kit has a lower temperature as well .
@@Rescuetech16 That makes no sense at all well I have 28” on my machine now.
@@Rescuetech16 I guess I’ll have to find out and do my own comparison again.
Put all this to rest and show the data from the app. This way nobody can say anything. That’s as simple as it gets!
Thats your opion, but alot say other wise RNG is the winner in my eyes and others in the trail and mud ridiing
No as I said for me I prefer the MSC kit. It performs better and runs much cooler. Theirs a ton of other videos showing me with the msc kit in mud and trails. I personally think rng is getting better but he lost just about everything besides smoothness off the line. I also cover how his kit revs up extremely quickly and then noses over for some reason. If I was going by the seat of the pants dyno I’d agree with you. Or if I’ve only ran one kit again I might agree with you. But timers don’t care who wins or loses and it’s proven there.
Bit confused. One minute ya like RNG the msc better
To be fair it depends on application to me. One has a place for sure and so does the other.
@@mjmisadventures950 so depending on riding styles both as good really ie I do lots of road so I only run primary
@@micksmithandyasmineadventu794in a way it could be. I think it depends on how fast you go. If your doing 30 I feel the msc kit had more punch. If your trying to 70 on a highway they both offer better kits for road use.
We never saw one test😂 or a chart. Dry erase that u dont go over doesn't count...
I did go over every portion of the test and read off every number. To be fair it was one of our earlier video and we had 2 cell phones to do the test so we couldn’t get a ton of b roll to show the machine launching. I do apologize for that but as explain many times in plenty of other public videos “even with rng as well” the test was not the end all b all of testing. It was designed to show how they stack up against each other. To show performance and basic info because nobody else had done so. Both parties even agreed the numbers are where they expected them to be. Also just like in this long response I didn’t want to make the video an hour long. So I cut it down and tried making it fast and two the point. That way a general consumer “like yourself” can take the raw data and so what’s most important and then discuss it further with both companies.
R.N.G hands down. MSC is horrible to deal with no call backs and other things. R.N.G will answer you and give you what you need all you have to do is tell him what you want. Also you can't have the best of both worlds if you trail ride and slow speeds the kit will suck on the road and you will lose 10 MPH. If you road ride at top speed leave it stock.
We can definitely agree to disagree. I can’t speak on msc being bad as I got great service from them. Joel made himself available to me when I had questions even at 10pm. Covering the part of you just need to tell rng what you want and he builds it might be accurate but he was the one who helped me pick out the tests “so he had knowledge of how and what I was gonna do”. I do however agree with you that you can’t have the complete best of both worlds but imo the msc kit gave me 95% of what I wanted. Also I showed back to back the stock kit wasn’t as fast as the msc kit overall. I felt rng sells his product well but wasn’t happy with the 65 mph governor he chose to imply on his behalf. I wasn’t happy having to test 2 setups to give everyone the best choice in the test “or give him the best results”. I don’t care for the belt temps either “none were super high” but his was close to 22 degrees hotter on a 28 degree day. But I will say if I was big in rock crawling or very slow speed trail riding his is definitely smoother off the line. Not by much but it’s smoother. That didn’t sway my opinion. I have nothing against rng or msc I in fact wish both the absolute best. But for performance msc was better.
I have delt with MSC for about 2 years now and if I had a question and whoever answered the phone couldn’t answer the question someone would call me back within an hour.
MSC has been great with me also. Fast shipping and their stage 3 trail kit is absolute money!!
Bla bla bla were is the real test video?
I’m confused would you have liked nothing but launch videos? I tried to keep it around 20 or so minutes but it’s a ton of info to put into that short of a time span as well.
Chip we are waiting for you to spend your own money and take the time to make a real video
Odd... I have found the complete opposite. As well as some other people I've talked to.
I did state even rng agreed with the results. I can only report on what I see and feel.
??? So what you’re telling us is that you a a few of your friends also bought one clutch kit from RNG and another clutch kit from MSC then took the time to test and compare them? I don’t think so. Why would you make a comment like that?
@@jameskerns3520I think the main thing to take away is these kits are tested back to back not one weekend and then the next. They could have gotten both kits but then you start talking variations between vehicles as well. I tested both on the same vehicle same day same road and same equipment. I just wanted people to have raw data and then reach out to BOTH companies and nail down what’s best for them.
@@Michaelg0221 I understand and appreciate that. It boils my blood when someone claims you do these things in exchange for free parts or you’re getting paid for your time. Thank you for everything.
@@jameskerns3520 yes. That's correct