INCELS vs. Pickup Artists | Types of INCELS
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2019
- This video answers the questions: What are the types of INCELS? What is a pickup artist? What is the relationship between INCELS and pickup artists?
Donnelly, D., Burgess, E., Anderson, S., Davis, R., & Dillard, J. (2001). Involuntary Celibacy: A Life Course Analysis. Journal of Sex Research, 38(2), 159-169. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Richter, G., & Richter, A. (2019). The Incel Killer and the Threat to the Campus Community. Security: Solutions for Enterprise Security Leaders, 56(3), 28-30.
Jauk, E., Neubauer, A. C., Mairunteregger, T., Pemp, S., Sieber, K. P., & Rauthmann, J. F. (2016). How alluring are dark personalities? The dark triad and attractiveness in speed dating. European Journal of Personality, 30(2), 125-138. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Klement, K. R., Xoxakos, P., Nazario, M., Erickson, J. M., Salley, S., Pieterick, M., … Sagarin, B. J. (2019). Winning the Game: How Sexual Narcissism Relates to Adversarial Sexual Beliefs and Pick-Up Techniques. Sexuality & Culture, 23(4), 1283-1300. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Support Dr. Grande on Patreon:
/ drgrande
Do incels know about the country of Chad
Rainbow Riverbomb doesn’t seem likely, alas.
Chad...yes, it's a lovely place where all the guys get laid!
And the Virgin Islands
@Sam Joseph It's between Nigeria and Sudan.
Could you Imagine if Chad wasn't in Africa, but rather was a country in Europe, like instead of Austria? That would be fucking gold.
“Uprising of the incels” sounds like it’d make a good sequel to revenge of the nerds
Sounds like a good horror movie LOL😂😂😂
Death Metal Band
Sounds like a zombie movie.
Attack of the incels
LoL, that's what I was thinking lol, funny movie.
My goodness, I am so glad that I'm not interested in the dating scene anymore. Being an old lady has its perks! Thank you for this information!
I am an old lady now and I gave up dating married for 25 years and the guys out there now just act like you should be naked when they show up like somehow I'm obligated to have sex with someone I don't even know. the dumb pictures of their genitals, it just makes me laugh. I mean don't they know that women are not visual. Misogyny is alive and well ,unfortunately. I stopped dating also it's just not worth it anymore. I can be miserable all by myself
Well luckily you wouldn't find an incel on a dating site I guess because they're too terrified. I was in a ltr from 2003-2018 and missed all the online dating bullshit. When I left my ex I had let him make me believe I was fat and old and gross ...but quickly I realised he just told me that because he actually knew I was better than him and found out destroying my mind was effective in keeping me with him. I did fine....I got dick pics and met silly people but I found it somewhat liberating to realise I could set my own boundaries and cope with things like that. I'm now married to a sweet and very handsome man 7 years younger than me who wouldn't treat me like my ex 😊
@Wise Guy don't get too confortable now lol
@Wise Guy woooow big boy never buys his own big boy clothes. Fascinating. I'm so glad I am too young for this shit
It's really not that bad in the real world. Seriously. The RUclips ecosphere is NOT a good refection of actual, in person, human society.
"They have hopes of a rebellion... that will never happen" lmaooooooooooooo
Becall McElroy most incels know a successful rebellion would never happen, the rational but extremist incels want their particular brand of Mass murder to become more contagious so that shootings happen more often. A lot of the extreme incels find comfort in the idea that others are committing killings in honor of incels. Alek minassian said in his police interrogation that he and two other incel killers wanted to commit timed attacks to inspire others to follow up with copy cat killings.
And in the distance he heard "rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
Woo! 🙏💀
We are the new conter culture
Of course it will never happen. Rebellion reguires a lot of courage and motivation.
🍿🍿🍿😋😋😋
Bad for metabolism/health 😂
the health nerd
Wow, this ''Dr'' Grande actually hearted this stupid comment.
@m norton buswell
Hey genius, Grande here can't talk about female incels in this video because it is unpopular to bad mouth women .....uh, sorry......he doesn't have time right now(lol)
@m norton buswell no one is entitled to sex that's why there will never be public funding for abortion, contraceptives, sex ed. etc. no wait actually only LOSERS are not entitled to sex
The common thing I see among all these groups is that they completely miss what relationships are about. The impression with my run ins speaking with them is they're all just lost boys.
@DaToNyOyO go for the 33 and up women. they look for security and a kind heart and there are a lot of them since the options they want are in short supply but the urge to start a family gets high. all women want 2% of men and all men want 2% of women. eventually everyone settles for less because at least they'll get someone to feel safe with. I'm sort of in the 2% but my life is all about working on myself and I dont chase women and dont need them. My ambition comes first.
@DaToNyOyO yes and no. really depends. There are no absolutes in life. I know couples where the girl said "eww I dont date guys like him" to then getting married and feeling they are soul mates after the guy showed patience and was there for the girl when other guys hit it and quit it so I wouldn't convince yourself that everything can only go one way. its important for the guy to be intelligent and not a beta moron because women dont want to take on the masculine role.
DaToNyOyO actually a lot of very attractive women will go for guys significantly less attractive than they are if they find the guy’s personality attractive. In fact they are much more likely to do so than really attractive men are to date less attractive women. That’s been my observation my entire life, and I thought it was common knowledge. That’s admittedly not the norm, but it’s true. As another commenter said, most people of both sexes are average but they all desire the most attractive of the opposite sex. That’s normal, because we all ideally prefer to have the best of anything. But there are tons and tons of average-looking couples walking around. It’s a mistake to take an absolutist view on this. All women don’t behave in a certain way any more than all men do. I’ve dated a couple of really terrible, shallow women but more really good ones. Most of them were what you would probably just call cute, not beautiful by any stretch. But one of them could’ve been in Playboy, no joke. She had to know she was out of my league and in retrospect I have no idea how I pulled it off lol. But she just liked me for whatever reason. That’s how it works. The odds are pretty much always going to be against you when it comes to dating unless you’re one of those lucky top 2% of guys you mentioned. That’s just how it is for the majority of us. But it is by no means hopeless.
DaToNyOyO no two women are the same and no two men are the same. You need to get out of your misogynistic forums and go out and meet some real people who aren’t depressed, obsessing over their flaws. If you don’t think you’re physically attractive, cultivate some hobbies; learn to play an instrument, learn a language, learn to cook, etc, and by working on yourself you make yourself a more desirable partner. I’ve always dated men who were less physically attractive than me but I was attracted to their sense of humor, their intellect, our common love of certain activities, etc. And by them NEVER calling me a “Stacy” or telling me what I want or I’ll leave after xyz happens, etc lol
@DaToNyOyO I wouldn't trust you to park my car never mind trust you've read these studies correctly (if you've read them at all)
I have high-functioning autism so I’d like to provide some insight here. I want to say that I understand how other autistic people get to this point. Us autists pretty much live in a different world growing up. We go to different classes at school, we’re treated differently, and our brains aren’t the same. This is good for autistic people that are low-functioning (as it keeps them safe) but high-functioning autistic people are in an odd spot. The education system is not made to handle us. We are capable of existing in regular society, but are treated as if we never will. My IEP class handed me assignments that read like “What does it mean when someone smiles?” “What does it mean when someone frowns?” This was in my senior year, mind you.
Basically, we are unintentionally impeded in our education because the system assumes all autistic people are the same. This leads to a lot of us falling behind in our pursuit of independence. Some of us give up on independence and live like children forever. We are trained to be stupid and it takes a lot of courage and willpower to break out of that. There are times when I feel like an alien that escaped from Area 51 and is trying to live among humans. Fortunately, I didn’t fall into the trap of the incel community because I have a good head on my shoulders. But I’ve still never dated or had sex, nor do I have any friends.
DISCLAIMER: I don’t know how other schools treat their IEP students. If your experience is better than mine, that’s great, but this is how it was for me.
You sound like me, no friends feeling like an alien except my experience with school learning was more than writing what peoples facial expressions mean. We are rare people, mind telling me what your hobbies are?
Awe that just breaks my heart for the both of you .
Yeah, I hope you guys can make some friends soon!
Mentalcel in denial
Autism is a mental disorder, not a mental gift
What about Stacy's mom? She's got it goin' on.
She's all I want
That song is so funny ,😂🤭
😁
@@FPSIreland2 and you've waited for so long?
R.I.P. Adam Schlesinger. :( 1967-2020
This is why I have given up on the online dating scene. I pursue my interests in person. I would rather be alone than be with someone who doesn’t see me as a person. Yoga, martial arts, music, photography, and exploring the City. Made lots of friends this way.
I agree, same here. I also like spontaneity aspect of it a little.
Having interests is a great way to meet people. If I wasn't a musician I'd be a complete hermit 😂
@@gratefulila9980 music is probably on the top 3 ways to meet others, go for it, we're applauding for you!
@amery smith making friends is actually way easier for males than females.
@amery smith Strong incel vibes
"They have hopes of a rebellion that will never happen". Dr.Grande's face when he said that was serious 😂😂😂
I thought that I was an incel when I was about 14 sharing many of the inadequacies and jealousy .I was a shy boy constantly obsessed with different girls but had no idea about dating or relationships. As I got older I grew out of it. So perhaps many incels are emotionally stunted and trapped in adolescence They need help to develop mentally
Having been married for almost 50 years, I've not heard much about any of this. Very interesting, I've learned something new today.
This generation.. Smh🤣
Yeah it's a problem since social media
Yeah it's generational thing
@@lezel4swarts I hate when people say it's a generation as if everyone in a generation is like a certain way🤦🏽♂️
@@avratzz Nice sweeping generalization 👍🏽
There's a deep sense of rejection, which leads to resentment. Some resentment is normal, but it gets amplified out of proportion in echo chambers.
When I was young--a long time ago--I envied the pickup artists. So confident, easy going, effective with women. I have been good friends with 3 of them for many years. Dr. Grande's assessment that they lack intimacy and ability to sustain relationships was borne out. Two of my 3 friends reformed and after some horrible mistakes have formed good long term relationships. One ageing friend continues his old patterns and does not desire a long-term relationship. His longest recent relationship was with a woman who picked up that she could string him along by withholding sex and did. He describes himself as once he has had sex with a woman, he is not particularly interested in her anymore. I find this to be very sad and lonely. It is nice to live long enough to discover the down side of much of what I desired as a youth.
@@GolfWhisky great question, I had to think about this. If Darwinian evolution is the sole determinant of human mating behavior, you are correct. Optimize offspring, minimize time commitment, maximize varied sexual pleasure. Look at many movie and rock stars, especially when they are young; they have all the varied sex that they want. So why do even they frequently begin relationships as they age? The overwhelming emotion of romantic love. The perceived specialness of the other person and the desire to build a relationship. There is a sexual component but that is only part of it. Now this will not last, but it can last long enough to start something that may last. Even, evolution requires the male to stick around to protect the female and the offspring. Look at the alpha silverback gorilla. Most of his time is spent looking for potential danger to the group and dealing with it.
Google User Spoken like a true incel.
@@GolfWhisky Google User I do think you are right that a man has an instictive drive to procreate as much as possible with as many women as possible. Where you are wrong is that most men don't actually impregnate anyone. Most "pickup artists" are afraid of commitment and would likely be horrible fathers. Now if some guy actually had that strategy, impregnated women, and worked really hard to make enough money to support his offspring maybe you could argue that was a "successful mating strategy" but I kind of doubt it would lead to a happy life. Personally I would be stressed out trying to take care of all those children.
Women may have some instinctive drive to find the most suitable person or persons to provide for their offspring but again this does not lead to a happy life for most women. I think there has to be a level of stability for women to feel secure. Men don't want other men around their sexual partner again probably for evolutionary biological reasons. Having multiple men coming and going with varying abilities to care for you emotionally physically financially etcetera. This can't feel good.
That's why men and women agree to forsake their biological urges and practice loyalty through marriage. This is impossible if you are in constant fear of a betrayal which is why a marriage requires faith. There are good men and women out there but one will never find them if you go through life sullen, paranoid, and with low self esteem.
@@GolfWhisky Best of luck to you btw. Sorry I meant to end that on a positive note 😅
@@GolfWhisky Not exactly. And not in humans. Human females would not be able to keep their little children alive in the nature without their male partners who protect them. That´s why the archetype of strong warrior is so attractive.
If it was only about impregnating a woman and nothing more, noone would ever fall in love. Even animal couples of many species are bonded by love, either only during the mating season, or for the whole life. The emotional bond increases the chances the couple will raise their offspring successfuly.
Even animals who are not really social, like for example tigers, are more successful parents if female and male have strong emotional bond. Male tiger impregnates several females during the mating season but the one who is his favourite, the one he has the strongest emotional bond with, gets the most from the prey he hunts. There was a female tiger called Lakshmi who successfuly raised all of her cubs from all of her litters to adulthood, which is a real anomaly because the mortality of tiger cubs is usually quite high. This female tiger was very good in emotionally bonding with her male. So love isn´t just something useless, in many species it´s very important.
I used to be a dating coach for geeky guys. My main competitors were the PUA people. I couldn’t compete because I wanted to help my clients build confidence, whereas the PUA community was offering them shady “techniques.” Whew! I’m glad I left that world behind.
Yeah, that's our modern world. Crap beats quality in almost every aspect of our lives. 🙁
@@mrs.reluctant4095A world where "quick, instant results" are rewarded!
The concept of “fake it until you make it” is a valid concept in psychology (especially in things behavioral thearpy or cognitive behavioral thearpy). It is essentially the idea that as you gain experience and practice doing something you get better at it and more confident doing it. It applies to human learning, including learning how to ride a bike, drive a car or play an instrument. I agree it is not everything, but it does work to some extent.
@M W Well I wasn’t taking about that. I was just saying that the concept of “fake it until you make it” is a valid idea in psychology, especially in things like behaviorism and cognitive behaviorism.
Definitely, apparently the posture of your body can also have an effect on your confidence.
An open posture is said to make you feel more confident and comfortable and people will perceive you as being more confident while a more closed posture is something you typically tend to do when you aren't feeling very comfortable and people will also perceive you as being uncomfortable or less confident.
@M W You cannot fake a relationship until you make it...
Just sayin
@@Zorkmid123 because it is one of the best forms to focus the mind more on reaching the goal, so the odds to reach it becomes higher
OpportunisticHunter you may or may not make that relationship work, however you will have the opportunity to be in a relationship and learn from it and use that for the next one
As a forever aloner myself, it seems most of us people have mental issues (me Included). Theres really no easy solution to our problems, and it feels damn near impossible sometimes. Its easy to blame others (wemon, society) and thats were all this incel insanity comes from. I myself just except what I am and stop comparing myself to others, not so hard to be happy if u just stop caring
Idk if you will get a notification of my response, but I appreciate your honesty and self awareness. I do hope u find happiness. I believe it is something we have to find within ourselves and a significant other can only make us More happy.
really struck a gold mine when i discovered your channel. i cant even decide what to watch next on your recommended channels.
Finally i found that channel with clear and detailed opinion and research, *Thank You* Dr. Todd!
Your research is impeccable as usual! You're on the cutting edge of the literature...2019 citations! Impressive. Always a pleasure Dr. G.
Thanks Nate!
Except a lot of what he says are inaccuracies from Vice & Buzzfeed.
@@calint123 Did you read the citations in the description box? Academic journals not the same as Vice and Buzzfeed.
@@natesmith5444 I laughed pretty loud, there. Thanks. Nothing he says about incels as a collective is accurate. It's moot.
@@natesmith5444 Do you know a more accurate source of history than the history books or any text? It's actually being there among the parties & factions & events.
Those things are in the present, and I've mingled in those online groups up until recently. None of what he's saying is even remotely accurate. Incels don't so much feel entitled nor pro-mass shooter as he puts it.
Those are just random people who don't make up the whole. A lot of men feel the same about society even if they aren't incels. What he's describing could be any unhinged male who isn't an incel.
A lot of men in relationships feel resentful towards women. A lot of men see that women reward the wrong men with sex. "reward" because people keep telling us women won't have sex w/ those who have a crap personality.
If personality is all it takes, then it's almost like being "rewarded".
Attraction doesn't work this way & the world isn't so simple.
You aren't good nor evil for being a single male. The media & youtube feminists are just painting that picture.
Women aren't objects & they aren't a good or evil scale. I can't believe I had to explain this to a psychology major in another video about incels. She just callously replied that looks don't matter bc a women won't have sex with someone who has a crap personality.
That's missing the entire point. It's not about "crap personality" or even just looks.
There's men who are just better at getting laid because of confidence, looks, etc. & men who don't have all of the necessary things and live a lonely, depraved life.
My point is that you aren't automatically a monster for being an incel or feeling some level of resentment growing up.
There's women & feminists who feel the same way about men. Who openly bash men & even start youtube channels talking about "toxic masculinity" being our fault & offering no real solutions. Just regressions.
The issue with all these resentful guys is that women sexualize dark triad traits in our society. Will anyone touch on that, or no? Can we tackle that issue as well?
50 shades of grey
Dr. Grande: “..So now, we’ll take a look at the “so called” ‘pickup artist,’”
😂 this is why I love your channel. Thank you SO MUCH for that intelligent shade 🥰🤗
Hi, Dr. Grande. Out of topic but I just want to thank you for your videos about DSM 5 mental disorders! I have really understood them because of you and now I am a registered Psychometrician!! Just wanted to give you credits!! Thank you so much!!
This is the best summary of these subcultures and ideologies on the internet, concise, comprehensive, informative and easy to digest
great video... i'd really love and appreciate it if you did videos specifically about substance use/abuse and addiction. you have a really rational and empathetic point of view, which is what the substance abuse conversations need desperately. thanks again, love your videos!
@Lon Spector i mean, yes that's true, but just knowing that drugs are a maladaptive coping mechanism and that we need to learn how to deal with things more productively is pretty insubstantial as far as treatment and recovery goes. self awareness and understanding you have a problem is indeed the first step, but moving on from there is where a lot of active addicts find themselves. hence my asking for more videos on the topic, it's an incredibly interesting and convoluted topic that deserves care and understanding.
love the new topics being covered on this channel lately
Thank you Dr. Grande! You are fast with covering topics, awesome!
Best channel I've ever watched in psychology
WOW! I never knew you did these kinds of modern cultural/social analysis videos back then, I thought you only analyzed true crime stories. What fun treat and wonderful surprise. Time to binge on your back catalogue because i'm definitely interested in what you have to say about them and other modern groups.
Extremely good outline. This guy knows his stuff
I really struggle with the incel movement. I see it as just another form of misogyny, as alot of them feel so entitled to women and their bodies.
Aren't incels that group of people who talk about murdering women online and then sometimes actually accomplish it? I think incel goes a big step further than misogyny.
Rochelle_Lovelle I have to agree completely!
The one thing I really notice about these types of guys is that they have ABSOLUTELY no sense of humour. They can't laugh at themselves, instead get angry because they feel 'victimized'. I laugh at myself all the time. I fall down, I get back up and brush myself off and carry on. Women notice guys who can get on with life with a grin and a positive attitude. Incels wallow in their own 'failures' instead of using setbacks as a learning experience. Their narcissism cannot accept that their worldview might be flawed, therefore the whole is wrong . Not the kind of people I want to spend any time with.
Yeah, there is a difference between on the one hand, involuntary celibate men, who are actually in such situation due to social anxiety, mental health problems, disability and other problems, but try to improve their situation as they can, and on the other hand, internet incel movement, who just amplify insecurities and mental problems of each other, convince each other there is no hope for them and blame women for everything
@Finn MacCool lmfao you are so mad incel
Sad, many such cases. They may be jaded, but keep in mind these young men don't deserve to be kicked when they are down. They are outsiders, often bullied and insecure. If anything, help them by being a good listener, and a voice of reason. Even if they try our patience :)
If you're resentful against women just because they don't find you attractive, you're just a loser. Then again, not all incels are like that (luckily).
@@magallanesagustin4952 That’s exactly what is being addressed. You’re comment is just too ironic for me
the topics of your videos never cease to amaze me this one literally cracked me up bless
i seem to have 99% of incel traits, thanks to depression, autism, ptsd, etc. except I am a voluntarily (for now) celibate woman, who is taking time to improve myself and my issues, before I choose to involve myself with others issues, involve others in my issues, or try to maintain a healthy relationship. I realize that I have issues which i need to address. It's not all the fault of high status women or shitty men, its my own battles with mental illness and self esteem. If incels tried to turn their anger and resentments into acceptance and then moving on to work on their issues, they would potentially become chadlike, or rather, they could break down the unhealthy dynamics of the chad vs. incel power imbalance, and just form themselves into decent human beings who don't need to validate themselves based on status that might not even be accurate to reality.
I'm in the same boat ❤️
I hope you understand what a Chad thing you just said. Godspeed!
Occasionally I see abusive PUAs/incel types talking about how their only option is shitty, deceptive, transactional behaviour with women because they're autistic so they weren't dealt a fair hand when it comes to interacting with people in a healthy/normal way and I always think
"There are women on the spectrum too and they dont take that as an excuse to use people because they're bitter they aren't as socially accepted as others."
this is the best and most wholesome comment on youtube. adorable!♡♡♡
When Grande presented the statistic that celibate women are successful in their careers and celibate men are low class and in poverty... I just had to shake my head. Of course poor people are single and sexless - they can't afford a relationship. The reason why I am a man who chooses to be celibate had less to do with my socioeconomic status and more so to do with the fact that I need to work on myself. Stats simply promote stereotypes.
A well put, no bullshit text! I appreciate that you put the references in the description as well. Thanks, sir :D
lol
Loving all the different topics. Thanks Dr.Grande. Have a nice day!
I used to follow the PUA community and it became clear that there are two competing camps. One cynically treats women as objects and conquests which is pretty dark. The other emphasizes self improvement. If you want to date women you have to foster attraction by cultivating desirable traits like fitness, employment, grooming, etc. These eventually lead to confidence. Then there’s technical stuff like conventional and flirting skills, and charm of course. I think the latter approach helps guys who weren’t popular in high school.
I really disliked the first camp, but the second camp which emphasizes "inner game" is not that bad. More process and internally driven, instead of externally and about results and numbers.
Alot of people in the latter also view women as sex objects which makes me feel wrong
@@qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq3216 Ok, women's first ( men also have their duties) duty is to bear children and nurture them, but label them like sexual objects seems a bit extreme to me because they focus in that thing that is less relevant than other ones.
@@apoliticaldeviant1262 sorry to open your eyes, no sex have any duties on them other than maybe obeying laws of country they live in, though practice shows even that is optional.
@@melodi996 it is why society is in decadence.
People don't do the correct anymore, how can you expect them to obey the law( something that is terrene and many times is defined in a arbitrary way)?
I'm dealing with an INCEL roommate. Part of me wants to move away ASAP and the other part wants to beat him up.
Its an extreme test of my sanity being around this guy.
Pick on someone your own size
@@thugmagicthugnificentdr.th7589 idk man your beliefs are really delusional and antisocial
be a good friend and buy him a stripper
Unless he's whining about it to you all the time how is it your fucking business what he does?
@@williamsherman1089 that's what he does. If he wasn't so at me and aggressive about it I wouldn't care
The Pua's seem to have interesting ways to start conversations but they always had an underlying cheesiness to me.
Pick up lines are cheesy
Big on the "Ew" factor.
@M Z OUCH! That is so true. Even if common sense hopefully kicks in, there's a certain kind of crazy woman that works like dynamite. Ofc she has to be attractive. (Thinks...) Well moderately attractive.
I like their conversation starters, but the manipulative nature of PUA’s have made a lot of women wary of men, especially in the club scene.
Agree completely
Dr. GRANDE this is another great topic. I have heard about 2 minutes so far. You are very entertaining. I spent far too much time chatting with people on the Unrequited video. You make me laugh! I cant wait to hear the rest of this. So many if us are involuntarily celibate and never thought to have a term that we are called.... wow... and if we are female we are quite unlikely to approach a man... i am speaking for myself. I have been smiling since I opened this one. You crack me up!!!
Let me pop some popcorn right now...
..
The best channel on RUclips!!
Dr. Grande is right on--highly intelligent and to the point...Thank You Dr. G for lending your expertise to YT..:)
There's a group with an acronym for everything now. I'd no idea.
Very interesting video.
yeah bro
This acronym has existed for a decade.
I'm a 28y/o male who finds himself in the predicament of not being able to find romantic love. I became a medical doctor because I wanted to build a better life for me and my partner. I'm also an private pilot, adventurer and love sports. In the last 2 years I intensified my search for a partner a little bit which led me to the conclusion that there's no second person in the equation. Attraction to me just doesn't seem to happen. I went to a couple of therapists and they basically told me "get a gf", yeah no shit, sherlock. This has caused me a lot of dispair and shame, I feel utterly worthless and very alone. I cry everyday in the evening and I'm slowly struggling to show up at work. So far so good, up to this point it's only my problem. Where the resentment builds is that people, including the poster of this video, somehow find such suffering hilarious. I do realise that individuals who are making fun of this are probably just stupid or a minority that lacks compassion but I'm not surprised that other antisocial individuals act out because of their pain.
@Lon Spector thanks for the advice but I'm not interested in that. Probably I'm below average but nothing freaky. Most of these arrangements are transactional. I could get a transactional arrangement with a woman here, too. That doesn't work for me it has to be genuine. Moreover I find it indignating to make such major life changes to be found acceptable by a woman. I'd rather go down in misery than lose my dignity
No laughter here Max. It is both an interesting and frustrating position to be in. The message we are told is to build up ourselves so as not to be a burden on another.
Yet, for some reason, once that is accomplished (education, career, personal growth, etc.) a partner is nowhere to be found. I guess the more we grow, the slimmer the pickings become.
As you stated to the previous commentor, maintain your dignity. Much luck to you.
@Lon Spector It's true and it makes sense that it would be. There's room for more people at the base of the mountain than at the summit. Only those that are willing to endure, push through and keep going make it to the top.
I'm 48, wealthy, 5'10", lots of interests, etc. Same as you I can't find a woman. Now, maybe I'm not some male model but there are guys of all shapes and sizes married. I'm probably in the average to a bit above range.
I'm convinced it is something mental, personality wise. Fuck, there is a guy on yt, squirmy and grubs, look him up, he has a gf. He has some genetic disorder. Others too. There is more than meets the eye. People like us are the polar opposite of dark triad. Dark triad asks out every girl, thinks they are hot shit. We are neurotic and give a fuck what everyone thinks of us.
I always preferred to be behind a computer rather than socialize. Clueless how to meet a woman. Honestly I'm depressed as hell and think of ending it. The only thing that helps me is endurance sport. Time goes by fast and it only compounds.
@Lon Spector It is? Who brainwashed you with that?
Fascinating work, dear Doc! Thank you. S. x
I'm a female incel but not in the way you see them act online… I don't think men owe me anything and in fact, I'm just very sad yet understanding that people have their own standards of beauty. I unfortunately was born ugly and I am fat and I can only fix one of those things. I'm 30, still a virgin, never been kissed and have never been in a relationship. My two serious crushes in high school that found out I liked them rejected me which I understood. I would love to have a husband but I have resigned myself to a life of solitude **sigh**
I hope u find a guy that will love u
You know you are lying, women can demand for males even out of their league
@@marikishtarJust because they want one does NOT mean they can get them! LOL!
“I met someone special. He made a great first impression by being verbally abusive and emotionally manipulative; I was immediately smitten!”
- Nobody, ever.
This is amazingly interesting stuff as I'd been wondering about the connection between incels and PUAs, having seen one transition into the other.
"In theory, this can lead to seduction." Lol
Speaking from experience, it often works in practice too.
little spoon trying to cherry pick
It's funny someone could watch this video and then go on to brag about being one of these kind of guys.
Dr grande you are a genius in your field of work your videos taught me to spot a borderline woman I feel in love with at work you saved me I am now fascinated with learning about mental illnesses, especially borderline personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder, thank you, you are a god sent you are the dean of personality disorders and mental illnesses keep it love your work your A1 thank you for sharing your videos.
This video should be seen by all women !
Thank you Dr. Grande 😊
Very interesting topic!!!! The channel is very informative!!
Thanks for posting.
I found this video VERY interesting, and I really think that you hit the nail on the head in regards to the relationship between the “Incels” and the PUAs.
Your description of them also, particularly the PUA I think was very accurate insofar as dark triad personality traits/behaviors. That’s something I noticed myself in my recent research, although I’m not nearly as astute, scientific or articulate... it’s more of just a gut feeling that “there’s kinda something not right about these guys, I’d better take anything they say with a grain of salt.”
👓This was a new topic for me . Thanks Doc👍🏻
When PUAs started making their presence online in the late 90s, I read some of their stuff and I came to the conclusion that their material is used by dysfunctional people to pick up dysfunctional people. For instance it's all too common for them to describe what one should do if a woman immediately demands a man to buy her a drink. And they have a list of actions a man is suppose to perform when a woman acts like this, but reading through this have any of these people heard of the phrase, "Put your best foot forward?" If when meeting or approaching a woman and she immediately demands you to buy her something - if that's her best foot forward then I don't want anything to do with her. Let her play her collection of vibrators for all I care. And what does it say about these guys who have 3,000 different techniques to handle such a woman?
You're right at the start for sure, they kind of deserve each other. Many a PUA only pursue sex and imagine no value in bonding. Some I know have unlearned healthy behaviors that made them seem normal, but put them in a social category where they were never going to have easy access to sex. And they then self-taught into these predatory or opportunistic sociopaths that try to sand down their reality to just going from sexual encounter to sexual encounter. Often having to remind each other to still 'focus on themselves' as in don't forget to eat, sleep, and stay in work. There's women that slot in with that, far fewer than there are PUAs. There is no PUA coping strategy for a girl just being plain and unattracted to them physically. No, that's the PUA's fault for not demonstrating X, Y, and Z. Buy this E-book, take training course.
do you have a blue pill way to get out of inceldom?
It’s learning how to play the game. I don’t care who you are, dating and relationships are and have always been a game, and if you don’t know how to play your cards right, you’re fucked.
The, they don't usually suggest you must have every woman. If someone demands a drink go find someone less entitled.
@@darkbrotherhoodmurderer1059 no, if you don't play your cards right you are NOT fucked. Isn't that the point?
I think a fun video would be Dr. Grande trying to do a hypothetical diagnosis of the characters from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
I'm a year late and like 20 dollars short but yes, that would be a lot of fun
As always, this is an excellent video. I'm not part of either of those communities, but have looked into the pick-up movement and the work of people like RDS Tyler, for research purposes (I work with a specialist client group which has a high representation of 'beta males'). I have actually seen some positive attitudes and pro-social behaviours modelled by some of the movers in the pick-up field. Like everything else- it's complex, and there is light and shade. I think your video pretty much nailed things but I just wanted to add this point for balance.
I agree that some are better than others. There is a group called Fearless Man that I like. Their primary teacher is Brian Begin. From their RUclips videos I found out that their emphasis is on creating emotional connections with women. Their approach is very different and Brian doesn't like to use PUA terminology or identify as one.
Hi 👋 your comment was very interesting and good to see a professional here. Just wondering what do you do as a career or profession? Healthcare, counseling, psychology?? I have followed some pua channels and agree some are good and focus on self betterment in life while others seem very manipulative and full of being sleazy. Like everything in life it’s good to be mindful of the people you take advice from and follow. People are people and every career has bad apples, though some have more
Just Ready thanks. I’m a psychotherapist. I do a lot of work with something called Retroactive Jealousy which is what lead me to look into some of this stuff to help the male sufferers. Concepts like holding your frame and the avoidance of neediness can be very helpful to them
Mark the Demystifier & Retroactive Jealousy Support that’s cool I see it in your RUclips name/handle now. I see some of your videos I’m sure you’re good at what you do. You seem down to earth and I bet it would be interesting to see the unique patients you see. I always have had an interest in psychology though it was more of just an interest, keep taking care of people 👍
Just Ready Thanks. Yes a fascinating subject and Dr Grande never seems to fail in coming up with fascinating topics
Hello Dr.Grande , I hope you are well ❤ I wanted to tell you about my late father's illness , but I get physically sick when I try to form my thoughts about it ..I have never spoken about this before but it's good to find a place where I could potentially do so , thank you xxx
Phenomenal 🔥 Interesting how the PUA manuals encourage behaviors used by Narcissists during the love bombing phase. Once again, thank you Dr. Grande ☀️
@Charisma Inc. very insightful. Thank you for tis comment.
Actually, you have it completely wrong. Narcissistic love bombing (which I have experienced and am intimately familiar with) usually includes a LOT of attention (almost constant attention in some cases), extremely positive comments, praise of the person's "amazing" qualities, declarations of how important the person is to the narc's life, "mirroring" of the target, sharing of their hopes, dreams, etc. (i.e., future faking).
A PUA would almost NEVER recommend any of those kinds of approaches, but instead would typically suggest the opposite kinds of tactics: teasing the person, "negging" (giving backhanded compliments or even just purely negative comments), being oppositional, not returning texts or phone calls too soon, being hard to get in touch with, displaying different interests, tastes, etc. So like I said, it's really the complete opposite of love bombing. People who don't know very much about or think very deeply about these issues seem to want to conflate the two approaches, but the tactics are in fact very different.
@@ricklanders yeah you are exactly right
@@wednesdaysdoll yeah, it seems like a different side of the same coin of love bombing. They skip right to the attack stage. And that probably only works when the man is already attractive and desirable enough to be wanted by the woman without having to woo her
@@ricklanders Does PUA work in real life, ? How does it differ from how regular guys get women, and why are Pickup Artists labeled male Supremacists by some ?
Your channel is amazing.
Very concise, well thought out content. Great.
This channel ALWAYS completes my day of YouTubing!!!!!!!!!!! Your channel is so interesting, Dr. G.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
TheLauraVuitton I like that he is taking a risk tackling these topics.
Bobby Bero Yes, exactly! His analysis is so interesting.
Interesting perspective. By definition, there are many INCELS in my neighbourhood. These are men who wish an intimate relationship with a woman, but currently live a single life without bitterness or anti-social tendencies, exhibiting hope and acceptance. They tend to cherish friendships, neighbours and those who share their interests. I think healthy INCELS exist. :)
Another thought 🧠provoking episode.
I never considered nor would have thought be related.
Wow, it is a wild world out there... I rather keep it simple but informed with your teachings Dr Grande
Pick-up artists are ex-INCELs who perform UNDOING of their negative experiences from their childhood and youth.
This is one of the Ego defence mechanisms in Freud's psychoanalysis.
As a woman, you can have all these disorders & have no problem getting sex.
The problem is discrimination against males in society.
Sun Rise You're a male virgin you lying weasel.
Even if that were true, that isn’t any women’s fault, it’s mens.
@@obamaisamooncricket950 It's not men's fault, it's evolutionary biology. Scientific proof, has done DNA studies that proves only 40% of men have ever reproduced throughout human history. Biology discriminates against average men, in favour of the top gene pool. The top 2% of men do very well, while 80% of woman do very well, when it comes to ease of selection. Men are discrimited against by biology. An average man can't afford to be picky, because he will end up with nothing. Being picky is a female biological trait.
@@SunRise-ul7ko I can’t disagree with that. However, i by no means think I’m on the upper end of that spectrum. Yet, I’ve never had a problem dating or getting a women. In fact, many women have hit on my at my work and at bars, but I don’t think looks have much to do with it, it’s about how you come off an your personality. I think if more men work on improving their outlook and focus more on variables they can control they too can have more success with women, regardless any biological disposition.
@@obamaisamooncricket950 Good on you. You still must look at least half decent & have a good personality if your a man. A beaches land whale with tattoos can get the same attention & still have a shit personality.
Entertaining and informative. You do good work sir
Thank you for the video. Can please explain what you mean by true intimacy and establishing genuine relationships.
Also in your opinion what would be a better way of obtaining dating skills if there was never any exposure to the opposite sex or dating while growing up?
one thing what I don't understand about incels is that they tend to be attracted to women way out of their league like model-type and blaming those women for not sleeping with them, but women in their own league or just average normal women who are attracted to them , they tend to ignore and/or reject and this will just cause a never ending pattern to their problem ..can you make a video elaborating on that as why ?
Not sure why but when u said "Beta Uprising" it gave me a chuckle...
This is so informative 🙏
Dr. Grande is describing some old version of PUAs that perhaps existed in the 90s. Descriptions he gave like the notion of ‘fake it till you make it’ is totally contrary to anything that is taught nowadays. PUAs now emphasize the importance of congruence. A person who is congruent in their words and actions is not manipulative by definition. “Game” is simply understanding what you can do to present yourself in a way that the opposite sex will find attractive. Like many other things in life, this has to be learned.
This was interesting, maybe you could do a video on the collateral damage caused by pick up artists such as ruining relationships. I would also recommend using someone called Dan Bacon as your case study, he comes across as a complete moron, but the further you look into him, the more dark and manipulative he seems.
I'm about to look this Dan Bacon guy up now hahaha
Pickup artists only emerge in a human landscape already ruined by hegemonic sexual dynamics. They are like hyenas that seek their dose of carrion among the rubble, but they're not to blame for the disaster they (try to) take advantage of...
@@manuelmanzanero5057 To be fair, they do seek fresh meat, not leftovers :) As whole pick up game is aimed at girls which are "out of your league".
@@neonzn They can strive to find all the fresh meat they want, but they end up focusing their lives on playing the clown's part and turning themselves into walking lies only in hope of swallowing the leftovers. Paul Elam is absolutely right to define all the PUA phenomenon as "the art of begging for pussy".
@J M Some men would have no mercy on a man putting the moves on his wife.....and some men would not vote to indict or convict him for killing such men, this one included. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes mercilessly. Be merciless to me, I will be even more merciless in kind.
Ever since I read “The Game” by Neil Strauss I’ve been totally fascinated about the culture and psychology of PUA’s. Great topic, TY!
I loved that book. I couldn't put it down. I think to woman it read like a novel, and to men, a bible. I used to have a gorgeous leather-bound version that looked like a bible! Somehow it disappeared from my collection!
@Lon Spector what does that have to do with anything? I like Neil Strauss' writing style. He writes bios, that read like novels, written by a journalist. Short punchy sentences. I also read several others by him to include "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star" about Jenna Jameson. I found it very intimate and candid and I think they are also very illuminating on a developmental psychology level.
I recommend also reading "The Truth", which he wrote ten years later where he very much dismantles the whole PUA culture.
How insightful and detailed information with such a deep analysis you put there!!!
This channel deserves a lot more views!!!
interesting! i've watched a few of Dr. Grande's videos before, but after stumbling across 21University and then watching this afterwards... truly and educational experience
Spot on with the subject matter.
The first ”vs” video title that makes sense. And I do not mean for clickbait purposes. Incels and Pick up artists are counterpoles but they have very similar problems in their development to becoming mature adults.
there are some people that say that rather than just talking about them we should help them. But the whole thing about therapy is that you can only
better yourself if you want to become better. Most of those incels don’t see something in them that needs to be worked on, they think everyone else needs to work on themselves This makes helping them hard/almost impossible
This hurts me but I still like the video lol ... Can't wait for the next one.
This is a very interesting topic dr grande
I'd love to see a breakdown of both hook-up culture as well as cancel culture from you Dr. G. I feel both have lead to a sort societal breakdown of relationships and also attributed to these systemic sociopaths. Not a true sociopath but more of subculture of pseudo sociopaths.
Cancel culture?
@@tyronewalker5764 Call-out culture (also known as outrage culture) is a form of public shaming wherein people identify offenses committed by members of their community and publicly "call out" the offenders, thereby shaming or punishing them.[1] Its proponents aim to hold individuals and groups accountable for their actions by calling attention to behavior that is perceived to be problematic, usually on social media.[2][3]
A variant of the term, cancel culture, describes a form of boycott in which the called-out person is also thrust out of social or professional circles - either on social media or in the real world or both. They are said to be "canceled".[4]
The expression "cancelling", in reference to cancel culture, has been used since 2015, with its widespread usage beginning in 2018
just realized something socially repulsive about myself. Thanks Dr. Grande.
what would that be and how was that extracted from this video?
He's wrong. There's nothing repulsive about the truth. Don't deny your reality. Don't let him gaslight you.
@@TFrills you don't even know what the OP specifically referred to lol.
Very interesting topic!
I'm actually shocked you haven't made a video about Blackpill
I agree with everything that is said with the exception of online dating. Online dating has changed the dating scene.
I’m an incel because I’m involuntarily celibate. That’s it! I don’t have any of these weird beliefs that get attached to the term. I imagine most incels are the same in this regard.
@En Ded Normal people have relationships and have sex. Incels don’t.
Very interesting!
Thanks Dr. Grande.
Greetings 😃🇳🇱
Yes, her interesting Dr Grande. You ensure to get people to think, about what terms really mean, and how these things relate to different groups in the real world. That's so true about how vulnerable to exploitation the probably mainly Virginia incels are. It's important to remember that most incels are NOT these dangerous terrorists or family annihilators as we have seen recently. Society is becoming really clichy. We need to all be more open and welcoming an maybe live more in the real world and get to know people. Having said that, I have to know start accepting "dates" as I think my volcel period of life has dragged on for too many years. Everyone should have someone. We are not cut out to be alone all the time.
Thank you- that was interesting and not what I expected. If I were to emulate Mr Spock, I’d say, “Fascinating.”
This is the first time I heard of INCELS and of them having an ideology. How does one oscillate between all four examples?
That definition "someone who can't find a partner in 6 months" blows my mind (of course I understand there are other definitions later on the video).
It's what our culture thinks, that if you are not constantly be with a woman there is something wrong with you.
With that classification, a lot more people who wouldn't even consider themselves incels will fall in this category.
People think it's crazy if you are not with a woman all the time. Now,. to me a non-incel who had relationships in his life (so he doesn't have a problem to form some) but also has big gaps of non-relationship (from 6 months to even 2-3 years) is totally ok. That's my opinion (Well, it depends on how they feel about it, but there are men who cold be happily be on their own for long periods of time, not everything must revolve around a woman). Not only true incels are mocked, but even people who are not getting laid every day, who have long periods of being on their own happily.
My definition about an incel is a man who hates women because he can't get any that he considers is attractive. They usually come out in swarms in comment sections of any female getting sexually abused finding ways to defend her abuser and finding fault with the abused woman, or if any man in the news gets mistreated by a woman, ohhh, do they all come out and say the woman is not punished heavily enough. And generally seeing women as all evil no matter what. They also love talking about ugly women or overweight women having the audacity to be choosy on their men.
@@JK-zu1np your comment is lacking in credibility. Often women ARE getting lighter sentences than men for committing similar crimes. Even women who have helped serial killers have been out of prison in less than 20 years. That is not speculation, that's a fact. Also, why is it ok for ugly and below average women to have "standards" but ugly men like incels can't? So ugly women are entitled to good looking men now? Average men should look for average women, and vice versa. Nobody is entitled to sex, men or women. And women are not entitled to marriage or children either.
@@JK-zu1np They also love talking about ugly women or overweight women having the audacity to be choosy on their men.
you have a shaky sense of parody
That shit is a big reason why this "incel subculture" even exists in the first place! Change those aforementioned social attitudes and at least half the problem will solve itself automatically!
This seems to be a summary of common traits and beliefs among these groups of people. I was surprised to not see what you would be suggesting professionally for these people to improve their situations.
This is a very interesting subjects you're covering. And it's sort of bleeds off into another subgroup I don't know if it has a category or not but the pop culture expression would be "Gym Creeper."right now it's covid-19 none of the gyms are open but it seems that a lot of the gym creepers AR older men and I'm being nice when I say they're older they're really old men and they hit on females anywhere from 18 to 118 they have no shame and they don't go away when you tell him to go away and I can understand why what's going on in their head? Maybe you could look into that and share your info with us in one of your informative presentations. Thank you.
Things have really changed since the sexual revolution. Only those of us who passed through it and lived to tell the tale can know just how much they've changed. To me, it's as if you're describing an alternate reality, doc, but I watched the whole video and probably learned something. This kind of subject tells me that your audience skews young; younger than I am, certainly.
@Lon Spector
Well, Lon, I don't know if it was or is or ever will be that simple. Survival, like so many other things, is a mystery.
But I am sure of this: I never imagined, back then, that I'd be looking at what I'm looking at now.
🎃
Here's a tip kids! Sex is overrated and is only exciting until you do it! After the deed is done you discover that football ,baseball,beer and tv are exceptionally superior forms of entertainment to the hard work of trying to please a woman!
coooooooooooooooooope
He is actually right to an extent but you can only say that when you have access to great sex very often with hotties.
It's very much like saying Ferrari is better than Mercedes .
Well it depends Ferrari is sure better but Mercedes ain't any bad either and actually Mercedes is something that is affordable as well as good in the long run.
You need both
It's not only the sex, it's to be part of that social game, and incels are so out of it they feel like extraterrestrial beings visiting earth. It's like that episode of the Simpsons where there was "not HomerS" sign and thus Homer was always set out because some unchangeable reason.
after the deed is done i just want to go to sleep
Have you talked about Robert Hawkins, the Von Maur shooter in omaha nebraska? Great content on your youtube channel.
This is a good one Dr. Grande. Thanks for the explanation of this subject.
I'm trying to be a better person and live alone as I improve myself. Sometime in the future I would like to find a good woman with like goals and ideals, with good morals and a love of learning as well. Of course I want to see how many cookbooks she has too. That last thing might win my heart which would give me the desire to trust women again. I am coming off a four decade relationship with a probable covert narcissist although I am not a Dr. and that is just my hop.
Catching a disease from casual sex is unacceptable it is unhealthy and unclean.
@Lon Spector yes I stayed until with me shutting down and my health failing as well from the abuse she just walked out like I was worthless and she doesn't care.
Then after a few days she wanted to come back home and I have said no never again will we live together. Divorcing is in process and will be final soon. That's gonna be my best Christmas present ever.
Proud of you for getting out of that toxic relationship/marriage. It’s a very hard thing to do, especially when it’s been going on for so long. I wish you the best.
@@TheReMorseCode half of your life's work for peace, a no brainer
Me and the dog get along great.
Thanks for your support.
I will keep it short today. The amount of contempt that I feel is almost infinite.
@M Z lol 😂 This is a fantastic idea! This vid has a great potential to convince her, believe me... Now that I'm able to recognize the great practical value this video has in the life of woman - I will like it, dear! 👍
28% of men are celibate for over a year in America. I’d say the incel community is small but a large part of men could be labeled as incels by definition.
I can’t get laid no matter how hard I try but I don’t do anything hateful to women. I don’t deserve to be put in the same basket as incels
Some men just dont want sex though
@@LmaoMoni everything I've seen you post on here is just wrong. MOST men WANT sex, okay? A man would have to have an underlying medical issue to not have any desire for sex. Also, incels do not just go after the best looking white chicks. Most incels go after every kind of chick (white, black, Spanish, Asian, Indian, short, tall, fat, skinny, ugly, beautiful) and get turned down or overlooked by all of them. Stop posting comments about something you have no idea about. You're not a man, and you're not an incel, so you have no idea what it's like. It's a messed up situation for anyone to be in, but it happens to a lot of men because of our culture and all the crazy demands that females put on men.
@@shaolinprince777 there are men with low sex drives or asexual who have no medical issue (which is defined as causing stress).
@@NoReligion77 I know. That's why I said that MOST men WANT sex, and for a man to not want it, he would have to have an underlying medical issue.
Dr. Grande, pickup artistry is nothing more than a skill set. It is a very specific skill set, but that is really all it is. Virtually anyone can learn (or be taught) how to interact with women, and since the pickup artist's skills and in some cases, training can be applied to virtually any woman, they can also be used by a man to improve his relationship with his wife. The reason for this is that the principals of attraction, rapport, and sexual escalation are the same weather they are being applied to a woman you just met, or your wife of fifteen years. I admit I cannot speak for all pickup artists, but I can certainly speak for most.
I would also advise anyone seeking to acquire these skills to be _very_ skeptical. There are some truly amazing coaches out there, but there is also an equal number of scammers.
Running into one of these blew my mind before knowing about the term