Nose diving can be caused by too stout a magazine spring. Instead of feeding, the case drags in the feed lips, nosing down. Have a Kahr PM40 that had this problem. Shortened the mag spring from the bottom 1/2 turn at a time until the problem resolved. Now 100% reliable.
I used a Gen 4 Glock 21 Mag with Gen 4 10 mm spring and follower. My follower is stamped number 3. This works very well. No problems. Thank you very much for information.
I can't believe how much the muzzle comes up, even with the barrel cuts. I'd like to see this gun fired multiple times in a row just to see how much control is possible.
40 super - range of bullets is 135gr to 220. vs the 230s and 250hc are really the only weights you'd want to use. 10mm - same as above 135gr to 220. but it's about 100fps slower than 40 super. But it's harder to find a high quality 40 super barrel vs 10mm barrel. But with the 10mm slide you can also get a 40sw, 357sig, 9x23, 38 super, 9mm conversion barrels. So the 10mm platform has more versatility Honestly it just comes down to what you want to accomplish.
From a .45acp Glock platfporm, you can shoot 45acp, 45 Super, 450SMC, 400 CorBon, 40 Super and 460 Rowland. The range of weights you can shoot in 460 is the same as 45acp, so 165gr to 255+ grain. The 45acp Glock platofrm is QUITE versatile.
Here is the fix, I will post video soon for those wanting a true and tested fix to make 40 super reliable in g21 mags. I ended up using a solder gun and used plastic from auto interior moldings but the best would be high quality poly one can buy, i melted plastic onto the front top of the follower where the front 1/3 of the round rests on the follower. I melted a blotch on and into the follower plastic itself so it becomes one and loaded mag and tested in gun by just using my hand to rack slide and sanded down blotch until hand racks became consistent and angle of bullet looked right. then i tested with actual shooting and eventually on the second follower i modded perfection. I can shoot reliable in both single 10 rd and doublestack 13 4d mags. Ive also used ×4 mag ext on g21 13rd mag with no malfunctions. isnt cheap but testing and experimenting needs to be done if glock isnt going to spit out a few thousand 40 super followers for us 40 super glock people.
Taper of .40 Super lets cartridge orient with nose lower. A little filing to widen gap between magazine's steel retaining lips at their front will let the cartridge orient more nose up. Or add ~0.020" shims to magazine retention slot lands (top lands) to raise magazine in frame. Lots of slop there affords the shimming.
I'm new here and decided to mod my G21SF for 45 Super. Question: Is the 40 Super better? I know it has higher velocities. Less recoil? But say for example, hunting large wild boar. Which one would you prefer? 40 Super or 45 Super?
Any experience with 9x25 Dillon? The example I used was a Glock mod 20 10mm gen 3 with a ported 9x25 long barrel. Felt like the firearm was gonna explode. Was using underwood defensive ammo as it's all that is available. Had 1 cracked case however I was only able to find 3 cases after a 10 round firing session. Cycled flawlessly and was able to fire semi rapidly.
I'd prefer 460rowland over 45 super if you like .45 cal. I did a vid on that as well :) Large wild boar - hmm 10mm 200xtp or 220 hard cast, 40super 200xtp 220 hard cast, 460rowland 230 xtp or 250 hard cast. All will do the job. Pick your poison heh Recoil - you can put a brake/comp on all of them and the recoil will be so similar that you probably won't be able to tell a difference. 460 - you can put 45acp and 45 super through same barrel. Need a g21 slide can also do 40 super.
older G21 mag springs are narrow and should work just fine with the 10mm follower. New G21 mag springs tend to be wide and would not work with the G20 follower. If you get a G21 mag with a wide spring I would first try the mag to see if it's reliable. (some have been for me and some have not...haven't figured that one out yet) If it's not reliable then get 10mm guts.
Personally I think you'd be best served with a 6" bar-sto or kkm 10mm barrel. Get yourself some underwood 200xtp or 220 hardcast and you'd be set. Don't need a long slide. Get a 22-24Lb spring.
Hmm history repeats, this happened with the Bren ten Back in the day, the mags were 10mm/.45 acp dual mags problem was because of the way the bullets were setup on the 10mm they kept hanging up like you described, the way they fixed it was by angling the follower up, as the .45 sits lower. FYI I know this as I just finished up reading the bren ten heir apparent and that was how they fixed that particular mag issue, and they did a bit on the history of the .40 super and how it came to exist. hence why I'm looking this up now, as it seems like a 10mm magnum without the drawbacks.
Hi Ammo TestI am thinking of going to 40 super. My magazines get damaged shooting 460 Rowland.Thought I would let you know what I have found out about magazine springs so far.Wolf "** Spring is +5% in Model 21, 13 round magazine." not 10% extra.AGP Arms +20% stronger spring for the Glock 21 Not sure of the extra power in a 13 round magazine?460 Rowland® +166 % Magazine Spring is suitable for use with all standard Glock I will be trying both of these for the 460 Rowland, hopefully in May if my Dr. says I can go to the range. Haven't been able to after my spinal fusion back surgery.Thought maybe these springs might help on the 40 super platform.If? when? I do get a 40 super barrel I will try both of these springs and also your fix.The wolf spring is a thick wire 10 coil spring. The AGP is a thinner wire 12 coil spring.Norm
Thanks for that reply. Looking at the velocity and muzzle energy numbers, looks like .40 Super is tops. Another question please. Which barrel do you feel provides the best accuracy? Lone Wolf decent? KKM promotes how accurate but they're pretty pricey. Just wanted to get your perspective on the matter.
I know the 10 rd single stacks don't work with the long slide. I'll have to try this mod on them. If I remember they are hit or miss on the regular slide. When I get together with my friend we'll check it out...probably some time in Sept.
If you compare the ballistics of the 40 Super to the 460 Rowland, the Rowland is still a more powerful round. But the 460 Rowland is a little tricky to reload and this round would probably be easier to duplicate providing that there's a source for pre-formed brass or otherwise you'd have to neck down 45 win mag brass which is nit easy to find.. And then you'd definitely want some kind of brass catcher unless you just wanted to burn factory ammo at a dollar per round or more. I like the long slide except for the damn forward slide serrations. Lone Wolf long slides are even uglier, though.
have both g21 40 super and rem enhanced r1 460 clark custom and the 460 only beats out the 40s in energy by 150-220. FPS the 40s destroys. the rowland conversion with the needed comp creates a bulky heavy gun the g21 40s not as bad. 40 super is cheaper to buy and reload. love both have both.
Neither of these calibers are for the beginner. If your going with a G21 slide... 460 - either go with the 460rowlandcom Braked setup. Or get yourself a Bar-sto precision threaded barrel finished at 5.3" then find a good compensator. 40 super - ideally bar-sto prec threaded at 5.3". Get yourself a good compensator/brake LONG SLIDE - 460 - bar-sto prec threaded overall length 6.60" 40 super - same bar sto threaded over all length 6.60" Either way your going to shell out a lot of cash
and 24 lb recoil is best. EFKs are slow? not sure what that even means. if fps i shoot average of 1850fps using 135 grain out of my g21 using EFK ported barrel.
Wanted to ask you, might be a dumb question but here goes....The 10mm (G20) follower, will it fit OK on the 45ACP (G21) mag spring? Or do I need to buy G20 followers AND G20 10mm mag springs?
You didn't just kill your redbull addiction, you obliterated it! You said above, "Neither of these calibers" I think you're suggesting to go the 10mm route. Obviously have the power and accuracy. May be I should just get a G20 slide and barrel. Then I have a .45 Super and a 10mm all in one. (Currently my stock G21SF)
460rowland energy vs 40 super energy is so close it doesn't really matter. All depends on what your wanting to do. KKM won't do 40 super or 460rowland. LWD is ok but you get what you pay for. Storm Lake does 460rowland but I'm not sure they sell direct. You might have to get one from 460rowlandcom Bar-Sto Precision would be my first choice for either caliber. Expensive yes. Long wait yes. Worth it OH YEAH. Check out my video - killing my redbull addiction. Neither of these calibers
this isnt a bad idea being the extra tightness of a .471 case in a .425 mag might help with keeping front of bullet angled higher i will have to try this.
benjamin anderson no in regular 10mm mags 10mm, 9x25, 9mm, 357sig, 40sw, 38 super, 9x23 all work great. 40super is pretty much the only one that has given problems for a lot of people.
Nose diving can be caused by too stout a magazine spring. Instead of feeding, the case drags in the feed lips, nosing down.
Have a Kahr PM40 that had this problem. Shortened the mag spring from the bottom 1/2 turn at a time until the problem resolved. Now 100% reliable.
I used a Gen 4 Glock 21 Mag with Gen 4 10 mm spring and follower. My follower is stamped number 3. This works very well. No problems. Thank you very much for information.
@Dio Black and what's your recoil lbs?
I can't believe how much the muzzle comes up, even with the barrel cuts. I'd like to see this gun fired multiple times in a row just to see how much control is possible.
40 super - range of bullets is 135gr to 220. vs the 230s and 250hc are really the only weights you'd want to use.
10mm - same as above 135gr to 220. but it's about 100fps slower than 40 super. But it's harder to find a high quality 40 super barrel vs 10mm barrel. But with the 10mm slide you can also get a 40sw, 357sig, 9x23, 38 super, 9mm conversion barrels. So the 10mm platform has more versatility
Honestly it just comes down to what you want to accomplish.
i dont know what youre shooting, but MY 40 super was running almost 1800 fps. 135 gr hollow points. same 10mm shoots 1400 fps. HUGE difference.
From a .45acp Glock platfporm, you can shoot 45acp, 45 Super, 450SMC, 400 CorBon, 40 Super and 460 Rowland. The range of weights you can shoot in 460 is the same as 45acp, so 165gr to 255+ grain. The 45acp Glock platofrm is QUITE versatile.
Here is the fix, I will post video soon for those wanting a true and tested fix to make 40 super reliable in g21 mags. I ended up using a solder gun and used plastic from auto interior moldings but the best would be high quality poly one can buy, i melted plastic onto the front top of the follower where the front 1/3 of the round rests on the follower. I melted a blotch on and into the follower plastic itself so it becomes one and loaded mag and tested in gun by just using my hand to rack slide and sanded down blotch until hand racks became consistent and angle of bullet looked right. then i tested with actual shooting and eventually on the second follower i modded perfection. I can shoot reliable in both single 10 rd and doublestack 13 4d mags. Ive also used ×4 mag ext on g21 13rd mag with no malfunctions. isnt cheap but testing and experimenting needs to be done if glock isnt going to spit out a few thousand 40 super followers for us 40 super glock people.
Taper of .40 Super lets cartridge orient with nose lower. A little filing to widen gap between magazine's steel retaining lips at their front will let the cartridge orient more nose up.
Or add ~0.020" shims to magazine retention slot lands (top lands) to raise magazine in frame. Lots of slop there affords the shimming.
The 10 round single stack mag works great 4 the super also
So what would I have to do to change my g21 into a 40 super? Just change the barrel to a 40 cal barrel?
You need to get a 40 super Barrel that's the only Barrel that will work the bullet case is bottlenecked
You need to get a 40 super Barrel that's the only Barrel that will work the bullet case is bottlenecked
I'm new here and decided to mod my G21SF for 45 Super. Question: Is the 40 Super better? I know it has higher velocities. Less recoil? But say for example, hunting large wild boar. Which one would you prefer? 40 Super or 45 Super?
Any experience with 9x25 Dillon? The example I used was a Glock mod 20 10mm gen 3 with a ported 9x25 long barrel. Felt like the firearm was gonna explode. Was using underwood defensive ammo as it's all that is available. Had 1 cracked case however I was only able to find 3 cases after a 10 round firing session. Cycled flawlessly and was able to fire semi rapidly.
I'd prefer 460rowland over 45 super if you like .45 cal. I did a vid on that as well :)
Large wild boar - hmm 10mm 200xtp or 220 hard cast, 40super 200xtp 220 hard cast, 460rowland 230 xtp or 250 hard cast. All will do the job. Pick your poison heh
Recoil - you can put a brake/comp on all of them and the recoil will be so similar that you probably won't be able to tell a difference.
460 - you can put 45acp and 45 super through same barrel. Need a g21 slide can also do 40 super.
older G21 mag springs are narrow and should work just fine with the 10mm follower. New G21 mag springs tend to be wide and would not work with the G20 follower.
If you get a G21 mag with a wide spring I would first try the mag to see if it's reliable. (some have been for me and some have not...haven't figured that one out yet) If it's not reliable then get 10mm guts.
Have you tried using just the 10 round single stack mag or do you still have feeding issues with that also
Personally I think you'd be best served with a 6" bar-sto or kkm 10mm barrel. Get yourself some underwood 200xtp or 220 hardcast and you'd be set. Don't need a long slide. Get a 22-24Lb spring.
Hmm history repeats, this happened with the Bren ten Back in the day, the mags were 10mm/.45 acp dual mags
problem was because of the way the bullets were setup on the 10mm they kept hanging up like you described, the way they fixed it was by angling the follower up, as the .45 sits lower.
FYI I know this as I just finished up reading the bren ten heir apparent and that was how they fixed that particular mag issue, and they did a bit on the history of the .40 super and how it came to exist.
hence why I'm looking this up now, as it seems like a 10mm magnum without the drawbacks.
Hi Ammo TestI am thinking of going to 40 super. My magazines get damaged shooting 460 Rowland.Thought I would let you know what I have found out about magazine springs so far.Wolf "** Spring is +5% in Model 21, 13 round magazine." not 10% extra.AGP Arms +20% stronger spring for the Glock 21 Not sure of the extra power in a 13 round magazine?460 Rowland® +166 % Magazine Spring is suitable for use with all standard Glock I will be trying both of these for the 460 Rowland, hopefully in May if my Dr. says I can go to the range. Haven't been able to after my spinal fusion back surgery.Thought maybe these springs might help on the 40 super platform.If? when? I do get a 40 super barrel I will try both of these springs and also your fix.The wolf spring is a thick wire 10 coil spring. The AGP is a thinner wire 12 coil spring.Norm
Thanks for that reply. Looking at the velocity and muzzle energy numbers, looks like .40 Super is tops.
Another question please. Which barrel do you feel provides the best accuracy? Lone Wolf decent? KKM promotes how accurate but they're pretty pricey.
Just wanted to get your perspective on the matter.
I know the 10 rd single stacks don't work with the long slide. I'll have to try this mod on them. If I remember they are hit or miss on the regular slide. When I get together with my friend we'll check it out...probably some time in Sept.
If you compare the ballistics of the 40 Super to the 460 Rowland, the Rowland is still a more powerful round.
But the 460 Rowland is a little tricky to reload and this round would probably be easier to duplicate providing that there's a source for pre-formed brass or otherwise you'd have to neck down 45 win mag brass which is nit easy to find..
And then you'd definitely want some kind of brass catcher unless you just wanted to burn factory ammo at a dollar per round or more.
I like the long slide except for the damn forward slide serrations. Lone Wolf long slides are even uglier, though.
have both g21 40 super and rem enhanced r1 460 clark custom and the 460 only beats out the 40s in energy by 150-220. FPS the 40s destroys. the rowland conversion with the needed comp creates a bulky heavy gun the g21 40s not as bad. 40 super is cheaper to buy and reload. love both have both.
Neither of these calibers are for the beginner. If your going with a G21 slide...
460 - either go with the 460rowlandcom Braked setup. Or get yourself a Bar-sto precision threaded barrel finished at 5.3" then find a good compensator.
40 super - ideally bar-sto prec threaded at 5.3". Get yourself a good compensator/brake
LONG SLIDE -
460 - bar-sto prec threaded overall length 6.60"
40 super - same bar sto threaded over all length 6.60"
Either way your going to shell out a lot of cash
So glad I found this video. I was having the exact same nose dive issue. Will try this fix.
Did it work?
I'd really love a 40 super but I already threw my hat in with 400 cor-bon lol
It goes up like a fucking cannon. spooky.
and 24 lb recoil is best. EFKs are slow? not sure what that even means. if fps i shoot average of 1850fps using 135 grain out of my g21 using EFK ported barrel.
460 Rowland mags will fix you right up.
Thanks! More coming :)
Wanted to ask you, might be a dumb question but here goes....The 10mm (G20) follower, will it fit OK on the 45ACP (G21) mag spring?
Or do I need to buy G20 followers AND G20 10mm mag springs?
You didn't just kill your redbull addiction, you obliterated it!
You said above, "Neither of these calibers"
I think you're suggesting to go the 10mm route. Obviously have the power and accuracy.
May be I should just get a G20 slide and barrel.
Then I have a .45 Super and a 10mm all in one. (Currently my stock G21SF)
460rowland energy vs 40 super energy is so close it doesn't really matter. All depends on what your wanting to do.
KKM won't do 40 super or 460rowland.
LWD is ok but you get what you pay for.
Storm Lake does 460rowland but I'm not sure they sell direct. You might have to get one from 460rowlandcom
Bar-Sto Precision would be my first choice for either caliber. Expensive yes. Long wait yes. Worth it OH YEAH. Check out my video - killing my redbull addiction.
Neither of these calibers
How long is that barrel?
6"
10rd 10mm mags with 7 rounds works for me.
this isnt a bad idea being the extra tightness of a .471 case in a .425 mag might help with keeping front of bullet angled higher i will have to try this.
will a 357 sig follower work
to short
do you have the same feed isues with the g 20 9x25 conversion
benjamin anderson
no in regular 10mm mags 10mm, 9x25, 9mm, 357sig, 40sw, 38 super, 9x23 all work great.
40super is pretty much the only one that has given problems for a lot of people.
"Will a 357 Sig follower work?"
No, it would be too short from front to rear.
Simple crimp the mag
That's funny. First round and it didn't even chamber. You call that a fix. Come on!
Thanks! More coming :)