Can the guy stay home while the woman works, according to the Bible?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- I surveyed the Scripture looking for an answer to this question and it seems to me that even though there are more typical situations in biblical times it's not the hard and fast rule that many think it is. In fact, there's quite of lot of support for a flexible attitude toward who "brings home the bacon."
My website BibleThinker.org
Today’s video has a surprising amount of bad takes in the comments section.
It can be an education in how to not think about an issue.
I don’t say this in a reactionary way, as if to defend myself. I could be wrong and am perfectly open to being shown to be wrong, but if that doesn’t come with specific examples and teachings from Scripture handled in context then it’s possible people are reacting out of their traditions rather than what Scripture teaches.
The comments on this video remind me of my overall focus on “learning to think biblically about everything.” The purpose of the content, even if you disagree with my thoughts, is to force us all to have to wrestle with relevant passages of Scripture in context rather than name-calling, tradition-keeping, or cherry-picking.
And for those accusing me of being a feminist and egalitarian, here’s my extensive series proving egalitarianism is wrong m.ruclips.net/p/PLZ3iRMLYFlHuBtpJlwi7F5JYw3N5pKyLC
Sounds like you had the bad take
I'm reading the comments looking for the "bad takes" and I haven't found them yet. Are you deleting comments? I don't think you're calling constructive criticism bad takes b/c I'm believing the best about you, but it would be helpful to know what you're calling a bad take.
It’s probably because you’re white. White Americans are so far removed from real life that they think pencil pushing and talking to people is work. God-ordained work is physical labor and animal husbandry, something the industrial revolution has removed from the urban jungle
Maybe “biblical gender roles” should be a added video to women in min series?
Yea alot of bad takes in the comment section.
Mike laid out his argument with different viewpoints and Biblical principles. Some takes in the comment are just going back to their traditions growing up.
Godly council is the best solution for anyone not knowing what to do in that situation.
I’m a stay at home mom and I do watch Mike Winger videos all day, but I turn them on while doing chores and play it through a speaker, so not lazy! 😂 I’m getting all my stuff done while listening to Mike Winger videos
Same! Lol
Saaaame! One of my favourite YTers.
Yep!!
Great post. The impression I got from his tone that a stay at home mom did nothing. In Bible times, pioneer times, and today she brings her skills to make the family function at its fullest potential.
@@mattvanderford4920 I don't hear that at all. History certainly doesn't back up him having that kind of attitude, so idk maybe rewatch it.
I'm a stay at home father raising kids in biblical principal. I do not feel diminished because I worked to pay off my home and provided our needs. Now my wife works in her field and I stay home because public school issues and health issues. With all that you do, do with all your might to the glory of God.
Amen
Sounds like typical role reversal to me
1 Timothy 5:8
"But if a certain man is not providing for his own family, and especially any members of-his-house, he has denied the faith and is worse than a faithless individual."
2 Thessalonians 3:10
"For even when we were with you*, we were transmitting this message to you*, that if a certain man is not wanting to be working, do not even let him be eating."
@@XeenMusic And providing child care is doing exactly as that verse says. Good affirmation that this dad is doing something appropriate for a Christian man to do.
I would LOVE to pay off our home....AND to not be such a slave to the bills that tend to not care about what you signed up for and how the noose of the financial squeeze about who will you hold onto more as your Savior...Jesus? Gov't? Spouse? Mammon?
I could have paid off our home in 5 years IF we were able to stay at our in-laws and built up the nest egg to pay in cash for a home...but no... I followed the ways of the world and signed up for a 30 yr mortgage and will pay interest first and end up paying more than 3 x for the house on paper.... we are definitely doing things wrong.
Sorry Jesus. 😔
I was born legally blind and I was blessed to be married to a wonderful woman for almost 19 years. There were times when I was unable to work for a good 2 years and my wife went out and worked. I heard all these verses before I received the guilt and the condemnation. I remember the day she announced our engagement and in my own church I heard "he's blind he may not be able to work you should marry him it's the husband's job to go out there and a living."well I wound up an it and had a job for I don't know 18 out of those 20 years. I said all that to say this it depends on the situation. The years that she worked and I was at home I kept the house clean I took care of our then 2 year old daughter I did laundry and I made sure that I had dinner on the table when she got home. Now I'm on complete disability my eyesight's gotten worse and I want to get married again and if I have to stay home and do those things I'm more than willing to do it. It's teamwork
Where is she now?
@@DAce-vu5ct she struggled with bipolar disorder and sadly 10 years ago she took her life.
@@ThecrosseyedTexan I'm SO sorry. 😔
@@mrupholsteryman every marriage is unique and there are different circumstances. Thank you. I am disheartened by some of the comments I see here when people don't know the full back story to certain situations. Once again thank you sir.
That's a wonderful testimony and your wife is God given for a time such as this in your life. AMEN brother Mike Winger it's True that Men can be stay at home husbands and father's. I really appreciate his work in Christian Apologetics so thanks for uploading this video brother Mike Winger as this channel does great Christ centered and Scripturally accurate content for the furtherance of The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ 🙏❤️. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't.
I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict.
Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers.
Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years
ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word.
Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
Overall I agree with the answer. Just to clarify one point, you mention pre-industrial revolution and the current need to have more than one income. I think to expand on this, prior to the industrial revolution there wasn't stay at home mothers there were often stay at home families. A farm was a family business or other professions (smiths or stores) would be attached to the home. The children and wife would work at the business. I've even read in medieval Europe that the best beer brewers were women, then the husband would travel to sell and deliver the beer. This is all important because it shows how difficult it can be to cross the cultural divide from the Bible to our current society.
Indeed. A lot of what people push as "biblical truth" is actually a pretty recent cultural development.
I thought he said just that: that having one income is a pretty modern conception post-industrial revolution. For most of human history, women have always worked.
This post seems to capture what the speaker missed. 1st he white washed the verses he addressed. Second he made it sound that the stay at home parent(wife) did nothing.
Your scenario the heavy burdens like Adam were always on the man. And the around the home tasks were on the wife. I have a stay at home wife and we would be broke if she was in the work force. She pays the bills, she raises the kids (not child care) she homeschools, she manages so much that I can’t do during the working day. Satisfying the proverbs 31 passage as well as any other motherhood passage. While I do the back break labor job that maximizes the wealth we could bring. If she worked and we split duties home duties. I would have to work less. I would miss out on overtime. And other benefits. From my observation from the few neighborhood stay at home dads they do not contribute to a orderly household in any way. They basically play video games all day.
Is it there a cultural divide from the Bible to our current society?
Ho. The last time I checked only women can give birth and produce milk for each baby. A man can never exactly be a woman. It is sad that American culture and the world's culture at large have changed husbands working hard outside the house and women working hard inside the house until the children are raised. Please reach at least one soul each week with the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Let us get ready for the new earth. Stars are not that big and cannot be trillions of miles away because of Revelation 6:13. Stars are sources of light and help with seasons. If Judge Jesus is considered a foreign prince, would you defend the constitution or obey the word of God? Sodomy (homosexuality) is a deathstyle. Biology is when two men and two women will never have their own literal children. Tragedy is when a husband and a wife cannot literally make one flesh. People should go preaching at abortion clinics. You abhor idols but you commit sacrilege by going to church every sunday. Remember that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by the Lord in Genesis. Sodomites (homosexuals, furries, necromancers) are disobeying the first commandment which God gave, which is, Be fruitful and multiply. Women should wear dresses and a head covering. Men should wear trousers with no head covering. The mark of the beast is spiritual and physical. Only God can create in the Bible sense which is to bring something out of nothing. Peace unto you. Let us follow the pure Christian religion. Dragon is the old word for dinosaur. Elohim is a devil. The saints are going through tribulation but that will end when the Lord Jesus shall return. The world shall go through the wrath of God, not tribulation. The saints shall possess the kingdom and we shall reign here for a 1,000 years. The feet of our Lord Jesus will touch the Olivet mount. The gospel of John shows that the Lord Jesus rose before the first day of the week. He died in the midst of the week and rose on the sabbath. Daniel 9:27, John 19:31, John 20. We would say that he died on Wednesday and rose on Saturday. The first passover of the holy old king James Bible always comes before the heathen Easter. Read Acts 12:1-4. If the first passover falls around Easter like in 2022, then something is wrong. The calendar problem must be solved. I am not relying on man and that is why the belief I have is different from most people. We ought to pray for the repentance and success of kings and all those in authority. I pray for president Joe Biden and his cabinet to do well and repent of their sins. I have been praying for all those in authority since I read 1 Timothy 2:1-4 some years ago. I am a sabbath keeping, new moon celebrating, holy day feast observing Christian that would never knowingly eat pork, shrimps, or anything sacrificed to idols. It is an abomination for a Christian to eat shrimps, pork, chicken, etc. Adam and Eve were children of God but they sinned by eating from an unclean tree. The mark of the beast will be IN the right hand or IN the forehead. It is spiritual and physical. Most of the world worships the beast by keeping sunday, friday, Christmas, Easter, Eid, Diwali, etc. The carnal mark is linked to a digital economy. Our Lord Jesus never ate shrimps or pork. Prayerfully read Leviticus 11:43 and Revelation 21:8. If you make yourself abominable, that is a sin! Repent.
The new covenant will not save you if you continue being rebellious and stubborn against the word of the Lord. It is a sin to steal and a sin to forget the sabbath (saturday). *1 Samuel **15:23** KJV - For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.* Witchcraft, sorcery idolatry, witches, sorcerers, idolaters will be cast into hellfire. Only they that are washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus and keep his commandments shall be kings and priests. There is no such thing as a sunday rest or sunday sabbath in the Bible. Only the seventh day is blessed, sanctified and hallowed. Isaiah 66:22,23 says that from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh worship before the Lord in the new earth. Matthew 7:21-23 proves that not everyone that says Jesus is Lord will enter the kingdom. We need to do the will of the Father which is to obey and honor our Lord Jesus Christ. He kept the new moons and we ought to keep them.
My brother stayed at home because he had been laid off and his wife worked for a company with benefits. He really enjoyed beeing with the children, cooking, baking, shopping, keeping house, etc. more than his wife did. After a few months, they found it really worked well and the children were happy with the stay-at-home dad, so they stayed this way until the wife retired (early due to company laying off staff and she was close to retiring age). Tje children were out of the house by then and my brother found a job and his wife stayed at home.
How long did the brother work after the wife retired? I know that most couples can't retire at the exact same time, but I think that many would be unhappy it if they worked for many years while their spouse didn't. Taking care of the house is much easier in the modern era. Your brother shouldn't feel guilty for staying home since all of that was work. So he shouldn't feel like he has to work for a long time after his wife retired to "make up" for the time he was home with the kids since that time should count as work just as much as his work time should.
Bingo...the couple worked it out. 😊
@@greywolf7577 he loved the domestic work and spending the time with the children. He waz happiest baking and making meals. He did not feel guilty at all. His wife actually was relieved when they switched " jobs". His wife really liked her job. My brother, while staying at home, found he loved doing electronic repairs, etc. He found a job testng custom-made speakers, which had to be made to the customer's specs. Well, he worked until 69, until a few months before the cancer got too bad and passed away. I think they needed the space and on weekends, they did many activities together and enjoyed each other's company.
They both found a way to make the changes in their life work out. Like any couple, they had their moments but over all, they were a couple that loved each other and kept up the communication and talked out any conflicts.
The twist🥰
@@susanbender9323While on average a man prefer to work and women stay at home not everyone is wired the same. Some women may like being breadwinners and some men like taking care of the kids.
I agree that there are not necessarily hard and fast rules set in place in scripture for every situation, but I can say that my own experience as a young mother has shaped my opinion on this matter. I was working full time as a nurse on a busy/high acuity unit when my daughter was an infant and my husband was going back to school part-time. He was the one to take her to daycare and pick her up while I worked 12 hour shifts and often coming home just in time to put her to bed. His classes would finish by early afternoon, but I would almost always come home to a wrecked house and no dinner prepared unless I had pre-made some food. It was honestly frustrating simply because he naturally was not in tune with the duties that needed to be done at home and I didn’t want to nag. The housecleaning, cooking (if I wanted something other than frozen pizza), bill paying, and most of the childcare duties (including pumping to feed my daughter) still ended up being my responsibilities on top of the mental strain I was under working on a very stressful unit. I honestly was starting to resent him and lose respect for him in addition to being too exhausted for intimacy. It was wholly unhealthy for our marriage.
Once our son was born, he graciously agreed that it would be better if I mostly stayed home since he had just finished school and was starting a career. I would have made more money than him working full time, but we could both see how that would have continued to be harmful for our family.
All that to say, I don’t think it’s necessarily “wrong” for a woman to work outside the home. But, if it’s affecting the home-life in a way where the children are pawned off on strangers to raise or it’s otherwise harmful to the marriage I don’t see the point in the long run.
Appreciate the post. 15 years in my wife can still tease me about not seeing the mess. Paying the bills seems to be a consistent thing I see. When I read proverbs 31 and see how my wife (stay at home) just manages our personal budget and all that encompasses. I see a perfect biblical model illustrated.
Amen.
I agree. From what I’ve seen most women who work end up despising their husband who stays home. That’s just from my own experience. And even if scripture isn’t plain and clear about it I think it’s just something we know deep down in our conscience isn’t right.
Read Titus 2. Look at the world and ask if this is what it’s pushing? The world says all the problems we see are because of Christianity. If we aren’t flowing Gods commands and we see the problems we didn’t used to have except in a minority, then it becomes quite obvious. Children are not being raised by their parents. Strangers are raising them, abusing them, molesting them. And teaching them ungodly things. These things are happening even in religious institutions. Christians are living for the world and the things in the world. The Bible teaches the only things we need to be content with are food and clothing. And notice it doesn’t say a house either.
I had a similar experience. It was hard. I'm so glad God provided a way for me to stay home full time with my kids and that my husband is the provider now.
Thank you Pastor Mike! I always appreciate your thoughtful, scripture based, well prepared assessments on issues in the Christian community. Thank you for never using, “that’s the way I was raised/brought up to believe, therefore it is the best/right way.”😃
This clip undermines the biblical message we older women are to communicate to young mothers in their roles as wives and mothers.
Aged women are commanded to teach the younger women according to Titus 2:3-5 with respect to loving their husbands and children. Scripturally and physically, women are gifted and called to be helpers to their husbands and nurturers of their children (ref. Genesis 2:18, 21-24, Titus 2:4, 1 Timothy 5:14, and others). Their bodies are equipped to carry, bear, and nurse children; their temperaments and talents are suited to child rearing, homemaking, and all of the interesting and varied tasks that accompany them (Proverbs 31 and others). A mother’s natural maternal instincts lead her to want to be with her children, to love and protect them. Scripturally and physically, they are the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7). Traditional roles, which are scriptural, recognize and value the contributions of both men and women to marriage and the home. It is an interdependent relationship by design; all benefit, especially vulnerable children.
It takes the best of a young mother’s time, energy and presence to fulfill these roles, especially when dependent children are in the home. When one’s children have grown, women have more time to pursue other things within scriptural parameters.
Today’s women are being led to believe that Proverbs 31 means that a young mother should work 40+ hours a week outside of the home, leaving her precious children, her heritage according to Psalm 127:3, to the care of strangers. Many young mothers lament that they would like to be at home with their children, but have student loan debt, a two-income lifestyle, unsupportive husbands, etc., that are obstacles to coming home. Many men complain that their wives with both career and children are too tired for physical intimacy. Many young women pursue demanding college and career paths, unaware that they may be forever missing the window for marriage and children in so doing.
Three times in scripture, women are identified and called keepers at home (Psalm 113:9, 1 Timothy 5:14, and Titus 2:5 “keepers at home). I do not know of any passages that in a like manner command men. Statistically, many men are shrinking back from their roles as providers as feminist thought has taken hold, blurring the distinctions between men and women.
Godly mothers are greatly needed in their homes. A woman’s home and family can be her primary endeavor during her children’s formative years and is a blessed, irreplaceable form of service to God and others.
Thank you for this thoughtful and biblical response! I agree completely and even take it one step further... Grandmothering is an important task! Just because our children are grown, does not mean our involvement in their lives is over. Instead, it seems to me, it has only begun. My children seek my wisdom and my grandchildren are learning a great deal from me. I'm far from perfect with my advice to them, but having input into my grandchildren's lives is far better than any paycheck or "fun" activity imaginable.
So beautifully put!
I would agree. I do also believe that Proverbs 31 wants us to be productive at home, being able to sell items that the woman might be creating. In this way, she would be contributing financially. But this is kind of a natural part of her home-life. She is not centering her work anywhere, but on her family. And really, it's a great place to develop skills early on that can be financially beneficial later. Staying home does not have to be boring, unproductive or unfulfilling. God gave us gifts and we can develop skills. The sky is our limit!
@@wingabouts Yes, grandmothering is a joy and privilege! We older women at home have a lifetime of experience from which we can pull to serve others, including our grandchildren and now grown children.
Our own childrearing days now over, we are at a stage of life in which we have the time to avail ourselves of the long list of possible ways to serve neighbors, friends, family, and the local church. This list might include cooking and/or baking for others, hosting a book club with quality titles, making gifts for others (crochet, sewing, knitting, etc.), mentoring young women, sharing a hobby with a young person, sending cards and encouraging notes, visiting the elderly or ill, praying for others, showing hospitality in our homes, etc. Let's number our days and redeem the time!
I absolutely love this and appreciate this so much! This message needed by so many women! Thank you❤️
I know this won't be the most popular statement but if you are both working who is actually raising your kids?
I mean if both parents work 9-5 jobs, kid's in school. during summers, kid can either take care of himself or go to some summer org (ymca, camps, etc).
The school they go to.
The school isn't the best place to trust to raise your kids, especially nowadays.
@@jamesbacon1776 That's why you also send them to Sunday school
@@sirllamaiii9708 Yeah, and home school them if you can.
This is one of the most balanced, reasonable approaches I’ve seen of this issue that still finds its basis in Scripture. Well done!
LOL!
May i suggest that you ask the Lord to reveal the meaning of these scriptures. Its pretty clear that ideally a women would take care of the home and the man would provide financially.
Bottom line... scripture based! I am reading comments and I am wondering are people really in tuned with what he said. He had to research scriptures!
I think if you’re both in agreement, it would be ok.
Ps make sure God is included in your discussion 💞
My husband refuses to work because I can make too much money with my job. It's very stressful for me and it hurts me to be away from my small children. He believes it's the best for our family and refuses to let me be the stay at home parent. He also keeps the house cluttered and messy, and does not keep track of the children's needs. I'm left to do what I can when I am not working. He's not organized and can go weeks without doing laundry. I'm left to do the work of both parents. I have no energy left for our relationship.
It would be stressful
It won’t get better; your relationship sounds like my parents relationship. He will always feel entitled for you to work for him because he can
In this instance, you will need to have a hard talk w him. You can’t continue this way. Maybe you could both work art time jobs. Either way, he’s not contributing enough. You might have to tell him to do his fair share and if he doesn’t, then you will be cutting back your hours. There is no use in you getting burned out by doing two jobs.
I am so sorry to hear that! Do you have any godly people in your life that you can go to for wise counsel? I would suggest praying that God would change his heart. God can do miracles in marriages! I will pray for you! ❤🙏
I am so sorry to hear that! Do you have any godly people in your life that you can go to for wise counsel? I would suggest praying that God would change his heart. God can do miracles in marriages! I will pray for you! ❤🙏
I had a stay at home Father. (Born 1928) None of us saw anything wrong with it, as it just happen, which was out of anyone's control and even though my Father looked for work. His age and lack of education; affected his job prospects. So my Mother worked and Dad took care of home and teenager, me at the time.
I had this convo with my wife, and we stayed with having some ascribed roles as ideals to each gender but not always feasible because of complex circumstances and relationships. I do believe God gave us the capacity and gift to fulfill our roles when it comes to work vs nurturing children some of which I think are innate, the Bible says the woman is the “weaker vessel”, the woman’s body is designed in such a way to provide infants their nurture. Is life complicated? Yes, do we help each other out? Yes, do we sometimes play the other role?, Yes. But many of times like you said are things that deal with our character, we tend to cower as men to work and women tend to believe being at home is insignificant.
Weaker..more soft, more nuturing, women's brains even pick up on more facial cues than men's..more in-tune with people and their emotions, God made us to take care of the children, to form that bond with them from infancy thru nursing that only women can do..which all-important will set the template for their psychological health for the rest of their life
Me, personally, would not be attracted to a man who stayed home while I provided for the family, but I think couples should figure that out for themselves.
I think probably a lot of women feel that way, but I find it so attractive that my husband is supportive of my demanding career as an attorney and great with our kid. He isn’t staying home with our daughter right now, but I would be thrilled if he wanted to.
I actually had a couple bf's who did better at home, and me better in the workplace but due to the judgement and ridicule of an important family member whose influence effected me, I broke up with both of them after being continually told they were simply using me. I regret not deciding for myself, because even afterwards, I had a fiance who also was good at homemaking and nurturing but bad at working outside the home.
It shouldnt lead to my being called masculine or foolish, and them being users or lazy, when it was simply lending towards each one's strengths.
@@Aunruh557🤦♀️
@@justjosie8963bf’s lmao 😂🤦♀️🤦♀️who stayed home ya heck no
As a woman who LOVES working on new projects, being creative, and doing new things, this is very comforting to me. The thought of being Biblically required to be a stay at home mom is almost enough to dissuade me from ever having kids. I am pretty sure I would be in a fight with depression if I had to throw aside all of my passions, my skills, and my hopes for my life to only raise kids. If I have kids will they be my priority? Of course, but they should also be my husbands priority. I would love if my future suppose and I could share equally in that role. I didn't believe before watching this that I was required to be a stay at home mom, but after watching this I feel more affirmed in my understanding that there is no one size fits all. My future husband and I can ask God for wisdom in this area, and I know God will put us each where we need to be.
Hi Rachel. I had ambitions like you... but then I held my baby in my arms and all of my priorities, wants, needs shifted. I only say that to point out that when one is at a distance from something - like getting married or having kids - the person tends to have all these ideas of what will be, only to have them change in the situation.
I homeschool my 3 kids and it is so satisfying to put my creativity towards that...
My point in commenting is not to say one way or the other is better or proper, but rather just highlight that shift that can take place when one is actually in the situation. God bless!
“To only raise kids…? Lol 🤦♀️. As a woman who vowed selfishly to never have kids because it would interrupt my plans, I can attest to you now, (3 children later) being a mother and mom is the most important and honorable job on the planet. It is also the most underrated and thankless job on earth too. Our world is in the position it is because of this “ me me me” attitude especially from women.
I also did residential and commercial cleaning before children. I had a chain of daycare centers. Please! Parents do not send your kids to daycare’s! I could write a book on the horrors I saw!
@@fergiefergie5759 I've cut my hours from work to stay at home so I dont have to put my first born in a daycare.... this has made me feel a bit better about my choice lol Glad to see I'm not the only one worried about daycares
@@metrojohnny I had my husband help me at the day cares on a few occasions while I was pregnant He said to me multiple time’s “ I wouldn’t let me child walk around in here in a snow suit”. He also vowed he would clean toilets in McDonald’s as a third job if he had to to allow me to stay home. Honestly, the stories I could tell 😓
Yes! And also I think overall, people should realize women do have gifts that need room to pursue too. So God gives us gifts in specific industries and places and wants us to throw them all away and not use them once we get married?
At the same time though, many are called to be stay at home parents (many of which are moms) and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Women should feel empowered to stay at home. Dads too if they are called by God to do so.
Either way, we have to stop boxing people into what WE think is the right thing to do and let God instruct them on what to do. There’s no right “model,” except the model of hearts pursuing Jesus.
Hi Mike, I've been struggling with this a lot lately. I got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer five months after my wife and I got married.
On top of all that, I had already had a heart transplant, kidney transplant, and then needed a bone marrow transplant after the cancer. I've felt guilty for awhile because my wife worked through it all and I went on disability during my cancer battle.
We don't have the typical circumstances but we make it work. Thanks for this.
praying for your healing !
@@devineshaw6646 thank you! I'm in remission praise God!
@@isaiahburridgemusic praise God!! happy to hear that
Isaiah. I disagreed with Mike I think he was almost calling stay at home moms lazy and brushed over some good passages. That being said. You are in a radical circumstance. Anything not called a sin is principally based. The principle is the man Carry’s the burden of putting food on the table. It doesn’t say if a man Is sick the wife sits around to watch him get worse. As Christians our goal is to lighten the loads of other Christian and you brother need to heal. Bless you.
Genuine question but why do people with life threatening illnesses feel the need to explain feeling guilty/trading roles, etc about a situation that is so obviously outside of your control?
If you choose to have cancer so you can make your wife go to work while you go on disability, that is a different story. The whole topic for this video came up because the husband was adamant in choosing to not work and putting the responsibility on his wife. It's comparing apples and bananas here...
I love Mike but I think he's overly cautious when it comes to gender roles. The verses he called inconclusive actually very clearly give an answer.
Men are not just vaguely told to provide in the Bible and then we see no proof of that tendency in nature. The commands actually match reality. It's easier for a man to lead if he also is in charge of providing. It's easier for a woman to submit if she's running the home with what a man provides.
The question wasn't if a woman can ever work outside the home - the Bible makes clear its permissible, even though if she's married with kids they should be her priority - the question was can a man be the one who stays and does it while a woman provides. I don't think the Bible encourages that as the default, even if the man thinks he's better at home or the woman makes more money.
I think a more honest answer would have been no, barring exceptions.
I really resonate with you on this.
I was also thinking about our basic biology. Women were designed to bear children and men are just physically stronger than women. That fits well with men working the more dangerous kind of jobs and women raising the kids.
I think it is helpful to see a norm or a pattern while allowing for exceptions, but an exception merely proves the rule.
And seeing the curse as related to our roles makes sense, even it is light evidence. The rest of Scripture makes a compelling case for our gender roles in marriage.
Frimpsy from Kumasi, I totally agree with you. The Bible does show clearly what is to be the role of the man and woman in a household, and the directive that is provided in the Bible is very natural, that even in pagan cultures from the past to present it still is predominantly the man's role to provide. That is why I think Paul says of the Christian man who fails to provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever.
The only thing I see in this video is they are trying to find a way to challenge the status quo, reversing the role of the husband to the wife and vice verca while still affirming it as Biblical truth so as to appease consciences. They have failed.
He’s not overly cautious, just (as most men are) willing to overlook the obvious to make a convenient argument.
It’s convenient that most men will never debate the need for women to submit to her husband no matter what, even if he’s mean, hurtful, not Christian, abusive, etc. Following her husband is what she has to do to please God, her reward is in Heaven for her suffering.
But does the husband get held to similar standards in this traditional framework? Apparently not, as his role is still quite lenient. He’s the head of household, to be obeyed and respected no matter how much or little he contributes. Surely in this case, the men here would argue a woman must submit to her husband unequivocally despite him not providing and choosing to stay at home.
Interesting how it all shakes out.
@ninagrace-lee8323 as men we have a responsibility and will be held accountable if we fail. So im not sure how you think God's word is saying anything else.
@chandllerburse737 define what you mean when you say "fail as men" please.
Thanks for addressing this, Mike. I know a fellow Catholic man who once seemed to be apologizing to us that his wife was working while he stayed at home and took care of their kids, to which I was trying to advise him and let him know it was okay.
I'm sorry to hear that. You should have pointed him to the scriptures:
1 Timothy 5:8
"But if a certain man is not providing for his own family, and especially any members of-his-house, he has denied the faith and is worse than a faithless individual."
2 Thessalonians 3:10
"For even when we were with you*, we were transmitting this message to you*, that if a certain man is not wanting to be working, do not even let him be eating."
@@XeenMusic Thanks!!!
@@XeenMusicits sad to see you copy and paste the verses but not know them. I will pray for you brother.
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I worked from home and raised 2 daughters. My wife was a felony prosecutor, judge, and chief judge. I wish I could go back and do it all over again.
Why?
@@arcguardian It was wonderful, and I think I could do a better job, and appreciate every moment more. I am very proud of what my wife accomplished, and I was able to do what I always wanted to, as a wfh architect.
I know that in our family I never intended to be a stay at home dad / farmer. I worked in the oilfield 60-80hr a week and had a great career with good pay. When we had our first child we found out really quick that my wife did not do well with the isolation staying at home can bring. She is a nurse practitioner and was use to that social adult time.I was never at home and she felt like she was married to herself. At first I took a job with much less pay but better amounts of home time but it became clean that once my sister went back to school the cost of daycare would make it so I would make about $2 a hour after paying for it. My wife could not stand the idea of the daycare raising our child and ask me to stay at home. I fought it for awhile to be honest but then decided to try it out. We had a good bit of land 145ac so we decided to start a farm. The farm doesn’t make a livable wage 10k or less at this point but dose keep me at home t take care of the now 3 kids wile making some money for the household. No I am not the one making the most in the home. Dose that mean I married wrong because my wife now would make more than me even if I was still working outside the home? Even thought I work the farm cattle,chickens,pigs,garden etc for god knows how many hr a week dose that mean that because I take care of the kids too I am less of a man? I don’t think so and my wife happier than she ever been knowing where a portion of the food comes from and who taking care of our children.
No! You are a real man! Believe that. You worked it out with your wife. You sacrificed...a man of God.
This is a TREMENDOUS answer. Incredibly well-balanced. You are not just talking a single (or a couple) verses and claiming a universal principle. You are also taking into account compassion, practical implications, and plain old common sense. This, IMO, is how we need to approach all biblical issues.
My parents were Godly people who raised the 6 of us children on ONE income. That’s God’s plan, but we all know there are extenuating circumstances that force a husband to stay home while the wife works.
God's plan, Amen brother
The exception PROVES the rule...not the other way around. Everyone in these comments seems to be trying to explain their reasons for being the exception.
What evidence is there that only one income is God’s plan?
@@ih82r8 "But if someone doesn't provide for their own
family, and especially for a member of their household, they have denied the faith. They are worse than those who have no faith.
1 TIMOTHY 5:8
If you do not love and care for your family, especially your immediate family, then you are denying your faith in God. In scripture, this is worse than not believing in God at all.
@@RUT812 I don't think you understood my comment.
This can be a tricky issue but it comes down to each individual couple doing what's best for them and their family. I have a good friend whose wife has a good job, and he has been the stay at home Dad since their son was born. He has poured himself into that little boy and now that boy is one of the smartest and healthiest kids around. Yet my friend is still the man of the house and leads his family according to the scripture and to the best of his ability. That arrangement works for them.
I cringe when I hear “the man must be the provider.” First of all, God is the only provider. Secondly, circumstances change quickly in life. As long as both of you are working EQUALLY hard in whatever the Lord has called you to do, I see no issue in WHAT it is that you are doing. Each of us must obey the will of GOD & not the will of man. God has given me the grace & gift & calling to do X,Y,Z & He’s given my wife the grace & gift & calling to do X,Y,Z. Who are WE to tell GOD what HIS will should be for us? We belong to HIM. There is no biblical evidence that suggests HOW one is to labor, only that we must ALL labor.
IF you believe men are the only ones qualified to be apostles, pastors, teachers (the more time consuming offices of authority in church) then it would actually make MORE sense for the wife to support the husband financially so as not to be a burden on the church. That is just an OPINION. I’m not saying it as Bible fact or command of the Lord.
@@JC-li8kkMen are obviously meant to be providers. That's primary to their part in humanity. Of course God provides but he uses human agents to do a lot of that, and that largely includes men.
3 comments:
1- I'm intrigued by how many divisive comments follow many of Winger's videos.
2- I appreciate Mike Winger's perspectives because he rarely puts his opinion out as the final fact, instead he usually says "I could be wrong, so search and study scripture"
3- I usually don't read comments because it reveals that people who call themselves Christians can portray themselves as some of the nastiest, hateful, self centered, self righteous people around.
I second all three
Avoiding conflict by keeping your mouth shut is the wisest thing to do. I don’t agree with some comments here, but I respect their answers.
From what I have read so far, I have not seen a debate here between Christians who speak with firmness, wisdom, but also with respect and humility
My Wife is a retired Physician, I stayed home and raised our daughter, my job was to make her home life as care free and comfortable as possible.
I work with a guy who’s wife is a physician. He stayed home while their kids were growing up and now works part time and still takes care of everything in their home. Sometimes that is what is best for a family. They were able to raise their kids rather than a daycare.
It's a double standard. If a woman decides to leave the workforce and stay home with the kids, its applauded. She's considered strong and brave. If a man leaves the workforce to stay home, he's considered a pansy
Once the kids are old enough, the father should set an example of how to be a professional with a work ethic. We already have a terrible lack of street smarts and wisdom of resources in the church that's leaving young men unprepared and unsuitable as husbands. We need to address this issue ASAP.
We also already have a terrible lack of emotionally and spiritually available fathers. I think what Mike is advocating for in this video is to avoid "one size fits all" solutions like your comment above. Perhaps this should be the norm, but nothing in scripture leads me to believe that it's a universal mandate.
Either the mother or father can fill such a role. That problem comes more down to who is teaching the kids in the first place. We live in a society where people rely on public schools and babysitters to raise their kids instead of being there themselves. The real issue isn't one parent or the other neglecting teaching their kids one thing or another, the issue is that it's become a societal norm that _both_ parents don't parent their children, be it out of personal convenience or actual economic pressure.
You want kids to be raised properly? Raise them yourselves. You're the parents, not the world. Start homeschooling, quit giving your kids over to random people you don't know, and raise them yourselves. Only then are you gonna be able to teach them about the world, and only then are you gonna pass on the lessons you've learned. Only then will your values be passed on to your children. Quit giving them out to be raised in a system full of political activists, their anti-Christian worldviews, and the groomers they enable and allow to be around your kids.
Amen 1000x bless you
Yep and telling them to stay home and send their wife to work is aiding that. I’ve never ever heard the interpretation that men AND women are to provide for their family. That seems to be heavily influenced by Western culture.
If we want to go off of secular influence, study after study in the secular world has shown that children are better off being with their mother at home than father or grandparent. I’ve seen studies on obesity rates, and behavior and several other studies that all compared children raised by those three different people and they also showed improved outcomes with children that were all home with a stay at home mom. Obviously there are going to be extenuating circumstances. Husband is injured or I’ll, etc. But that shouldn’t be the norm. Are men just as good at nursing a baby as a mother for instance? That’s ridiculous to say a father can do anything a mom can. This isn’t to disparage fathers at all. Just to say they should be working. And I’ve never heard the scriptures twisted like this before.
I just wanted to say thank you for speaking on this. I grew up in a traditionalist Christian household, where my mom worked and my dad was stay-at-home. He was and still is very much the leader in the relationship, fulfilled the Biblical role of husband and father, and I owe a lot of my faith and conviction to him. This living arrangement was done out of necessity more so than anything else. As I have older than average parents (with my dad being the older of the two), and he had retired after a long and successful career in insurance, though he still kept himself active and pursued interests. My mom being the breadwinner in no way diminished my father's ability to fulfill his Biblical role as the head of the household, and it erks me when people imply it does.
(Edit: Also just to be clear, my mom was an active presence in my life, and took off working during the first year or so of my development, and remained active even after going back to work. It is actually possible for a mother to work and still fulfill her maternal role. So long as her role as a mother is prioritized over her work.)
Tell them your dad already won his bread. He's retired.
@@lkae4 I've been looking for the concept of "retirement" in the bible, did you manage to find it somewhere?
@@XeenMusic Just gonna pop into say this, we can practice concepts that are not stated in The Bible so long as they don't go against Biblical teachings. Driving is never mentioned in the Bible but we can still drive cars. I don't really understand your point to be honest.
@@CharlieKraken Can you show me where it says that a man is suddenly except from these bible commands once he reaches a certain age:
1 Timothy 5:8
"But if a certain man is not providing for his own family, and especially any members of-his-house, he has denied the faith and is worse than a faithless individual."
2 Thessalonians 3:10
"For even when we were with you*, we were transmitting this message to you*, that if a certain man is not wanting to be working, do not even let him be eating."
@@CharlieKraken This guy appears to be a works-based modern Judaizer. Be careful. But they are everywhere so it's good to learn to to engage and expose them.
With appropriate planning, expectations, and frugal living, couples can enjoy the traditional model (dad provides, mom nurtures dependent children at home) to everyone's benefit. Often, when the expenses associated with mom's job are totaled (childcare, transportation, work-appropriate wardrobe, taxes, convenience foods, etc.), she nets little to nothing from her salary. Some may even be digging themselves a hole.
Children are entrusted by God to parents to receive love, care, protection, and provision. Many believers are sadly delegating the care of their children to strangers, for pay, so that mom can work. Many children spend 12 hours a day in a 'care center.'
Where is the wisdom of God in these things?
I agree and this is why I stay home with my kids. I am thankful to do it. I can do volunteer work if I feel I need to work away from home. God will bless this. Of course, some women really do need to work, but it is too common to say that two incomes are needed. We just want more stuff! Myself included.
The question wasn't about the traditional model, it was to determine the biblical model. They are not one and the same. Biblically speaking there is no one size fits all. Even with ur advice, you are assuming liberties and luxuries others may not have access to.
That is factually incorrect. Single-worker housholds have been the extreme rarity throughout human history, and they are not the Biblical example. There is no reason to attempt to force a biblically-unrequired and unrealistic model on people, especially when some people really are not economically able to pull it off.
This just puts extra guilt and stress on people who are trying to do their best.
If you have the *luxury* of being able to pull off this "only men work" model and you feel led to do so, more power to you. But it's neither universally economically viable nor biblically mandated.
I strive to live by the Bible, not Leave it to Beaver. Have you ever read Proverbs 31?
My Mom was a nurse and my Dad a teacher. so most of what I can remember, my dad was the homemaker. YET, I and my siblings all understood traditional gender roles were the standard/norm/ideal. So there is a way to be an exception to the rule and not make the exception the rule. That's what my parents did in that area.
I'm primary for our two girls, one of which has developmental issues, and work just part time so my wife and I can do biblical homeschool. Once our house is paid off our goal is to switch places, her primary teacher and secondary work (if needed) and me just the opposite. Our desires are to be in different roles, but we are doing what we can do our daughters get both of us as the educators. Much prayer and submission to God's Word is needed. It does seem to be that scripture leans towards men being the provider for his family.
Hei Mike I heard You always read Comment...I'm from India, Northeastern part of India from Meghalaya..I've Finish Listening To Christ In the O.T series,Is Bible a Reliable Documents,And now currently I'm at Part 47 of Mark series...Great stuff i learn.Thanks Mike.
I was raise in a sahm home. My parents started out double income but Mom was a better home maker and loved doing it. Dad won the bread. But in my husband's and Is circumstance it's far different...I could get better paid employment with more paid time off. He could not as most jobs he could get were low pay or 7 day work weeks and 12 plus hours per day. I couldn't handle the stress of being a SAHM under those circumstances. Now He's a part time pastor and SAHD. He works weekends and from home on occasionally teaches at a seminary on evenings. I work in the public sector as a teacher with a weekday schedule. We are both serving the Lord, our church and our home best we can. We have been judged for this many times but could think of absolutely no reason why it should ever be an issue Biblically.
If you want to raise your family on Biblical values God will make a way, this I do believe outright and full! Not enough people who actually love God, and put his ways above their own.
Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, have children, manage their households, and give the enemy no opportunity for reproach; 1 Tim 5:14. If we rely on wisdom, God did give women milk to feed their babies. It would seem He wants mommies with young babes to be with them.
Lol no one said women can't breast feed. Do you have a problem with women who use breast pumps?
@@arcguardian of course not:)
Plus, the act of nursing provides more than milk. It provides a bonding experience for a mother and her baby.
Exactly. God created physical and emotional differences between men and women. To ignore that men and women have specific roles (that may manifest differently) is to pretend that men and women are exactly the same. Pretty disappointed in Mike Winger in this.
@@abigailf857 Right. While the Christians are condemning the spirit of the world's transgenderism, they've already been conquerer by it right in the church in such ways as you describe. I am man. And these men are an embaressment, who would rather their woman work and them stay at home, while she is already physically and emotionally responsible for bearing children for 9 months, giving birth, nursing and raising them... A woman also goes through a monthly period when she's not pregnant for 1 week a month. This is not a pleasant time. It's a shame that a man would be okay with letting his wife go when she should be resting during that time. If a man cannot support his family on his current job, he needs to search for a better one or work more hours. No man should put his wife into a position that she feels even the slightest bit tempted to work. Also, by her working, most jobs work around men in very close proximity that is completely inappropriate for a married woman. God has a mandate for the man, that is he does not provide for his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. The women does not have this responsibility. Her mandate is to make children, work at home, and take care of the home (also be sober and sound-minded, and shame-faced, and silent, and tranquil). (P.S. Any man that would be okay with woman being drafted into the military, is a shameful coward. And any man that sits home while his wife is drafted into the military, is not worthy to be called a man.)
I'd add that anyone who works away from their spouse needs to guard their heart as they socialize among many people of the opposite sex whose presence might seem more fulfilling than their own spouse's. I think this is a big danger in the working world today.
um that just means you have a trust issue. Not "every body" is a sexual temptation. Please.
@Prey R so you are saying women are more likely to cheat than men? And I'm not sure what "statistics" you are referring to.
@@rachelm9350 There are many immodest women who dress seductively, so women definitely are wanting attention and bringing attention to themselves. Those women are tempting men and exposing themselves to lust which can lead to adultry.
@@rachelm9350 women are more likely to cheat, stop being offended by that. Idk why so many of you women continue to argue that women don’t, when even women expose women on this, and it’s clearly obvious for multiple reasons
@@rachelm9350 there is a good book called the anatomy of an affair. I believe thats what it's called.
Affairs are far less likely to happen with the proper guardrails, but in today's culture, those guardrails are just about impossible unless you work in a Christian ministry. Having men and women work together when they're not married to each other can be dangerous. Some places (MANY of them) require you to have meetings with people of the opposite sex, alone. Sometimes you have to "open" or "close" a store with them, alone. Any of us can fall, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. @Prey R is right.
The Bible isn’t a moral hand book, do’s and don’ts.
The Bible offers wisdom, and that’s one of the most awesome thing about it!
Hi Mike,
Not sure if you'll see this, but I wanted to offer a careful, and, hopefully, gracious response to your point on Genesis 3. (Edit: and please forgive the literal novel of a comment this balloon'd into)
In Genesis 3 God tells Adam, not Eve, that by the sweat of his brow shall he eat. This does not seem to be a broader curse for the both of them (although it will impact both of them, which I'll come back to further on). God starts off by telling Adam "cursed is the ground because of you." When I read that, it seems that God is laying the blame of the thistles and weeds and trouble yielding food from the earth squarely on Adam.
"...cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground." - Genesis 3:17-19
Now we know that the consequences of this don't specifically impact Adam. It's not as though men are the only ones who have trouble keeping weeds out of their front yard or garden. But God places this charge specifically on Adam. The implication, at least as much as I can see, is that this is a unique responsibility the man will have outside of the garden, and it will be difficult for him.
We know that the Bible clearly does not teach that women cannot work outside of the home (as you mentioned in Prov 31 for example). But simply because a wife is permitted to work outside of the home, does not mean that a man is not still primarily charged with the responsibility of provision for his wife and children (given we accept my position on Gen 3).
How then, would we apply this? (My wife and I both work btw just to be completely transparent).
As you stated regarding Ephesians 5 at 6:25, if there is a sacrifice to be made, the man must make it. This is his call to love his wife, as Christ has loved the church.
Many households are dual income families. In today's economy, it is often a luxury to be able to live on a single income. However, if we come to a place financially where we need more money, it is on me, not my wife, to take the second job, to work the overtime, to take the harder/higher paying job.
And in the same way, if we are in a position of luxury where we can afford to survive off one income, I believe its consistent to say that the man should continue working, so that his wife can stay home.
Especially considering these points:
-Women primarily suffer the burden of child-bearing. For 9 month's her body is disposed to this miracle of creation, and it takes its toll on her. Not only that, but for the next 12-18 months, she will also likely be nursing that child. This is not something a man ever has to consider.
-As a user by the name Shirley Major pointed out in a previous comment, the bible makes mention of women as "keepers of the home" (Psalm 113:9, 1 Timothy 5:14, and Titus 2:5), where we don't find the same title assigned to men.
It would seem in light of the roles given to us in scripture as Husbands and Wives (in Ephesians, 1 Peter, and elsewhere), and the obvious advantages we each have to our callings, on top of the curse in the garden in Genesis 3, that it would be very difficult to make a biblical case for the approval of a stay at home dad, regardless of how diligent and loving he may be in the home. As with our roles in marriage, it is not about competency, or capability, but about the standard God has set for us and submitting and conforming ourselves to it.
Now there may be men who physically cant work. In today's age, its possible to work from home, so I don't think that that man would entirely be off the hook. But obviously, in cases where the man is legitimately not able to work whether by illness/injury/or lack of opportunity, we would see these as exceptions, and not a rule to model.
I have been genuinely blessed by your content throughout the years, and consider you a significant influence on my faith as a whole as I've walked with the Lord.
I say all of this above as your brother in Christ, and as someone who does not have to spend 100s if not 1000s of hours to prepare the breadth of content you have given us on the topic of women in ministry alone.
I'm sure there would be more on this that you could/would say, and that this is a short clip from a much larger event. I hope I haven't taken your position out of context.
Praying for you and your ministry to continue to flourish, and thank you again for all of the work you do!
Nice comment!
I agree with your comment with 1 exception. Living on a single income is not a luxury, it is a choice and a sacrifice.. We live on a single income and have learned to live within our means. We don't take big vacations, though we also don't just sit at home and never do anything fun. We eat out not at expensive restaurants and we order water and only a couple times a month. I have learned to shop and budget for our groceries and stock up when meat is on sale or whatever. We don't do name brand right off the rack, we shop at thrift stores where we get nice brand name clothes at a fraction of the cost. We buy used cars. I know we are so much better off than some who even work 2 jobs but we certainly are not living in luxury or even close. I think now a days many think that you HAVE to have 2 incomes but don't stop to look at what you can do without, what are not truly necessities but in fact are the luxuries that many single incomes families have learned to do without.
I’ve been a stay at home dad since 2011. Went through the police academy after getting out of the military. Never got hired, which was a blessing in disguise. Been dealing with PTSD and such as well. We didn’t want someone else raising our kids. I feel like we’ve been blessed to be able to do that. Just look at what society has become when the government and other people raise your kids.
Go Papa! ☺️
Maybe your wife wants to stay home 😂
If the guy stays at home, the woman always ends up resenting the man, losing respect and always she cheats.
@Prey R It's nature
It’s nature for a man to spread seed far and wide as possible. As Christians , we are spiritual beings, not to be of nature of this world.
Broadly and metaphorically speaking, a mother is a caregiver and a father is a warrior. By executing their respective responsibilities, their children grow up healthy, safe, and equipped to repeat the process.
My humble two cents:
I think there's a difference between a wife working because her husband can't, a wife working because they can't afford to live on one income and a wife working because she wants to keep her career or business running as is while the husband stays home for the kids' sake.
The first and second choices are made out of need and can still be juggled with wifehood and motherhood to a certain degree, though it'd certainly be difficult.
The third choice is different and questionable. Not because the wife works professionally, but because she's prioritizing her profession over her duties as a wife and mother.
The Bible establishes the opposite order: that is, wife/mother, then profession, should she choose to take one on.
Now, if a wife refuses to prioritize the home over her profession then the husband might do what he can for the family, and that might mean staying home. Which is certainly well intentioned on his part but still not how God wants us to be.
And in that case, the wife would be wrong for mismanaging her priorities and not respecting her husband.
Obviously we can't know anyone's circumstances unless they say so. However, as far as I can tell, the Bible is firm about what the average family should live like.
So we shouldn't deviate from God's desire for our families unless it's out of true necessity. Each of us will have to figure out for ourselves whether we need that lifestyle or simply want it and what that may mean for our relationship as a family and with God.
I agree, but would add a further scenario. Where the husband stays at home because he doesn't want to work. I know of at least two couples where the woman works and pays for everything because the men want to chase vanity projects
This was kind of the issue my husband's brother and wife had. She had a high paying career, and he hadn't gotten that far when their daughters came along. He stayed home while they were small. However, he was actually the more nurturing parent personality wise. He was more patient and creative. During that time it gave him more time to get some handyman projects done on their aging house as well. So, while some of her motives may have been somewhat selfish, it actually worked out for their family in the long run. He passed away before 45, so it was good that he had that time with his daughters.
I agree. Mom's take care of kids. They are in charge of children.
You are funny.
Truth!
Well, a wife either submits to her husband or she submits to her boss. If you insist on pretending she can do both, you'll find out quickly that the boss wins. The boss determines her schedule and tells her what to do with her mind and body. Let's see what the husband can say about that.
I agree. God created women as a helpmate, not leader or provider.
Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”
@@des711 Even in the Old Covenant, a woman/wife
could earn money. It was totally fine. Buying land,
totally fine too.
She makes fine linen and sells it,
and delivers sashes to the merchant.
She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
-excerpts Proverbs 31
@@8784-l3b Yes. Scripture says she can earn money, buy, and sell, but it doesnt say she is a slave, servant, or employee. She is wise with finding food and household things. She sells and trades at the market, could be what she made, grew, or old items she no longer needs. She buys and sells property, which she uses to grow crops.
What is a husband supposed to do? Would be easier if there is a proverbs for men. What are they to be doing?
I work full time, do majority of housework, shop for houshold goods and groceries, I stayed up throughout the night with the kids, and be there when I can when not at work, I budget, and pay bills, and be a wife. It is a struggle. It is tiring, and I am going to God for help.
@@8784-l3b Does the Proverbs 31 woman have a boss? Oh, it's her husband!
@@randyfleischer6588
She either has her own money and can
do as she wishes with it, or has family money and can do as she wishes with it.
She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
She stretches out her hand to the poor;
yes, she reaches forth her hands to the needy.
She makes money:
She makes fine linen and sells it,
and delivers sashes to the merchant.
Also:
The heart of her husband safely trusts in her, so that he will have no lack of gain.
Also:
For her worth is far above rubies.
I don't see the man being the boss here.
What I do see is an extremely valuable
woman that is making money for herself
and her husband and children.
At my house, I am the one who "works the ground". lol I also raised 8 children, etcetera and so on, with some scattered years of part-time jobs to make ends meet. My husband navigates the ins and out of workplace hierarchy and working "as unto the Lord" in his industry. He could have been a little more involved in raising the kids, maybe, but he did try to keep things from falling apart on the house, as well as helping his parents and mine, and anyone who asked, now and then. We have tried to work according to our abilities to make a home, giving grace during illnesses and recoveries from surgeries, grieving times, ...procrastinations. ;)
My father-in-law was a very talented contractor when he and my mother-in-law were first married, but ten or so years later he was in a series of car accidents and wrecks which left him with a traumatic brain injury and then a broken neck. He could no longer do the jobs he had done before, and his personality changed so that he had a hard time working with people (very irascible). My mother-in-law stepped up and worked very hard and became the very best in her profession, and has managed to take care of the family and him for 25 years or more. My mother has been a stay-at-home homeschooling wife and mom her whole married life up until my youngest brother graduated this year. Both women have shaped my family, and I am so thankful for both of them. I am now a homeschool mom, and it’s a big job in and of itself, but if I could find a side gig that wouldn’t take too much time away from my kids, I would jump on it. Thankfully, I haven’t had to get an outside job yet.
Had a friend... who is a househusband. He loves cooking and a handyman too. His income compared to his wife's is lower ... and she doesn't like cooking. So they came to an agreement that she should work and he stay at home looking after their children. He still makes decisions at home and expenditures.
He is an accountant and a cook by trade. She is a lawyer at a very high level petition. He is also a foreigner and she is a local. So job finding is hard for him too ... he tried his best. His wife still respects him as the head of their home. I think her salary at that time was 3X higher then his ... probably today even more. They are quite generous people too. The last I heard, they even managed to buy a house for themselves ... higher then midrange ...
But she does chorus at home too helping him with housework ... But he does the most of it ... with the help of his children.
Can we agree that this is the exception to the rule and this model typically doesn’t work?
@@JAKEBrakeModel94 When both follow the rules ... and agreement they made ... It works. ... Till today they are a happy family.
But not everyone is perfect right ... sure there's some misunderstanding too ... and I know who's fault that would be ... the husband (over cautious and sometimes over dominating). The wife is more easy going. But when it comes to generosity both are at par ... and they are never calculative.
As it is said, it takes two to Tango!!!
💃🕺 ... but only one to leads ...
Even in the ancient Hebrew's moderate household ... It's the wife who manages the household, fields ... and servants. The husband is the CEO ... who makes all decisions.
But the poorer families they work together, in bringing up their families, but of cause the men does most of the heavy liftings.
But those filthy rich ... The wife still manages the home ... and servants ... she's the queen. The husband is more to business, social and religious affairs and politics ...
@@JAKEBrakeModel94 nope. Different strokes for different folk. It’s works for some people
There is a natural reason why order of things has been for a wife to stay more at home than the husband.... Bearing children.
Alot of women have stopped bearing children because they must work. Getting sick for 9months won't be good for the family survival and nursing a child for 1year will send the family into bankruptcy .
I think, when a man insists on staying home just because he knows how to do it isn't enough. Therebis something he can't do... Get pregnant and nurse. Only a woman can do that and it is stressful when she has to juggle this along with being the only breadwinner just because the husband feels he can do a better job of staying at home.
This is sadly true... These are comments from a completely SECULAR individual:
While immigration too plays a role here, the only significant effect native women have when they enter the labor force in greater numbers is to depress the price of labor. Unlike immigrants, they don't bring in new consumption to help mitigate their wage-depressing effects; the reason real hourly wages peaked in 1973 and have been falling ever since is because that was the year that the number of men younger than 20 and older than 65 leaving the labor force was surpassed by educated, middle-class women entering it.
One-third of working class women have always worked. The change brought by feminism is that now middle class and upper middle class married women work as well. And the more women that work, the more women have to work and the less time women who don't work will have with their husbands who support them, because an INCREASE in the SUPPLY of labor necessitates a DECREASE in the PRICE of labor, demand remaining constant.
And to make matters worse, demand does not remain constant, but actually declines, because a woman who works is statistically much less likely to eventually become a wife and mother, and even when she does, she becomes one several years later and has fewer children. This means that feminism is a structural economic failure as it creates a downward-spiraling vicious circle of three easily identifiable revolutions:
The increase in the supply of labor causes wages to go down. This is indisputable in either logical or empirical terms.
Female hypergamy, female independence, and opportunity cost reduces the marriage rate and the average birth rate, while increased male work hours and work-related romantic opportunities increases the divorce rate. These connections are all logically sound and readily observable.
The reduced birth rate has a negative effect on consumption, and therefore the demand for labor, 20 years before the consequent negative effects on the supply of labor can help balance it out, putting further negative pressure on wage rates. This is also indisputable, both logically and empirically.
Totally Agree!
Poverty was the natural reason. Single income households are a luxury. Luxury isn't sin.
Or better job staying at home playing video games.
@@FlusteredFartana sounds like part of the problem.
I think it depends on your situation. I think Biblically speaking, a wife's first priority should be to her home and family, but that doesn't exclude her from doing anything else. I also think that dads should try to be way more involved in home life if at all possible. My husband and I chafe against the idea of a "stay at home 24/7 mom and a 9-5 dad" model because it doesn't seem beneficial to the kids to have their dad gone all the time and mom alone raising them.
That being said, we've only been married for almost 4 years (no kids yet so we'll see how that goes!) but during that time we've experienced all sorts of work models between the two of us. There were times when I worked and he wasn't able to get a job yet, times when we both worked, and right now we're in a season of him working and me staying home until I go back to work next month. Then we'll both be working again. I think it's unbiblical if a husband is unWILLING to provide for his family (1 Timothy 5:8 comes to mind tho I'm not 100% sure that's gender-specific...it could just mean "he" as in "people") but if he's unABLE I think people need to take a chill pill about it.
Thank you. I'm actually in a situation where working (I'm becoming a nail technician) and splitting chores would be much easier on me than staying home and taking care of the house. I live with chronic pain/lower energy because of a condition called hEDS. It's a very complex connective tissue disorder. The subtype that I have effects my joints, tendons and ligaments. People with this type are prone to dislocations and subluxations. My joints shift and sublux so frequently that it causes me a good deal of pain, the pain that I experience has been studied and deemed equally as bad as ALS or fibromyalgia. Because of how complex this disorder is, I have two comorbidities. In other words two separate conditions caused by this One condition. One of those is called POTS and it's an autonomic nervous system disorder. Upon standing up, my heart rate increases as my blood pressure drops, which can lead to me passing out. I also now have chronic tachycardia because it worsened roughly 5 months ago.
Housework is very physical, bearing both of those conditions in mind, you can see how I couldn't take the brunt of it even if my POTS didn't worsen.
People do need to chill and educate themselves both on God's word but also on how disabilities or a person's socioeconomic status can effect people and their living situations. It's getting kinda ridiculous.
@@melodyscarpitto310 I deal with the same condition. It is not easy! Lots of pain and fatigue. I used to teach preschool in my single mom years ( Not much choice in the matter when you are abandoned with three small kids, two on the autism spectrum) but when the Lord brought my husband into our lives ten years ago, a lot changed. I can't say I necessarily set out to be a stay-at-home mom at first but when I had baby number four, I began to recognize my condition was worsening. It was either pour my limited energies into my classroom or my home. My husband was and is, thankfully, a huge support. One of the big things he wanted from the get go was to take care of me and the kids. He emphasised that the burden of scrambling for income that had been on my shoulders so long was no longer mine alone. So...I left teaching and have concentrated on my kiddos, pacing myself day by day. I miss my class sometimes, but I find we each must do what works for our unique situation. Sorry for the ramble. I hardly ever see anyone else that knows about hEDS. Just wanted to offer my encouragement and prayers. Our God is a great sustainer. He's got you.
@@marisa5359 wow, I hardly ever hear of anyone having this disorder outside of Facebook groups dedicated to it.
I'm really happy God brought someone into your life after being abandoned by your ex husband. I can't imagine the pain you went through. I'll pray for you tonight, I've been through some things myself and I know full well that scars and emotions can still linger even if a great amount of time has passed.
I really appreciate the encouragement too, thank you. Life can get quite hard and discouraging at times with this disability
@@melodyscarpitto310 hi Melody. And Marisa. I feel for you. I do hope things get easier for you. I had a POTS-like phase but it seems better now, but I have multiple hormone probs and chronic fatigue, so I do understand. I’m blessed with a husband who understands when I’m feeling unwell, and fortunately he earned enough for us both. Now he’s retired he’s taken up doing his own laundry, and I felt ashamed, but he insists, to help me. And I need that help, I only have a few good hrs of activity in me per day.
We’re a team. He has no idea how I produce a meal at the end of the day (sometimes neither do I!) and I couldn’t have paid the mortgage, but there is no resentment when each tries their best, even if the outcome is not equal
The last time I checked only women can give birth and produce milk for each baby. A man can never exactly be a woman. It is sad that American culture and the world's culture at large have changed husbands working hard outside the house and women working hard inside the house until the children are raised. Please reach at least one soul each week with the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Let us get ready for the new earth. Stars are not that big and cannot be trillions of miles away because of Revelation 6:13. Stars are sources of light and help with seasons. If Judge Jesus is considered a foreign prince, would you defend the constitution or obey the word of God? Sodomy (homosexuality) is a deathstyle. Biology is when two men and two women will never have their own literal children. Tragedy is when a husband and a wife cannot literally make one flesh. People should go preaching at abortion clinics. You abhor idols but you commit sacrilege by going to church every sunday. Remember that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by the Lord in Genesis. Sodomites (homosexuals, furries, necromancers) are disobeying the first commandment which God gave, which is, Be fruitful and multiply. Women should wear dresses and a head covering. Men should wear trousers with no head covering. The mark of the beast is spiritual and physical. Only God can create in the Bible sense which is to bring something out of nothing. Peace unto you. Let us follow the pure Christian religion. Dragon is the old word for dinosaur. Elohim is a devil. The saints are going through tribulation but that will end when the Lord Jesus shall return. The world shall go through the wrath of God, not tribulation. The saints shall possess the kingdom and we shall reign here for a 1,000 years. The feet of our Lord Jesus will touch the Olivet mount. The gospel of John shows that the Lord Jesus rose before the first day of the week. He died in the midst of the week and rose on the sabbath. Daniel 9:27, John 19:31, John 20. We would say that he died on Wednesday and rose on Saturday. The first passover of the holy old king James Bible always comes before the heathen Easter. Read Acts 12:1-4. If the first passover falls around Easter like in 2022, then something is wrong. The calendar problem must be solved. I am not relying on man and that is why the belief I have is different from most people. We ought to pray for the repentance and success of kings and all those in authority. I pray for president Joe Biden and his cabinet to do well and repent of their sins. I have been praying for all those in authority since I read 1 Timothy 2:1-4 some years ago. I am a sabbath keeping, new moon celebrating, holy day feast observing Christian that would never knowingly eat pork, shrimps, or anything sacrificed to idols. It is an abomination for a Christian to eat shrimps, pork, chicken, etc. Adam and Eve were children of God but they sinned by eating from an unclean tree. The mark of the beast will be IN the right hand or IN the forehead. It is spiritual and physical. Most of the world worships the beast by keeping sunday, friday, Christmas, Easter, Eid, Diwali, etc. The carnal mark is linked to a digital economy. Our Lord Jesus never ate shrimps or pork. Prayerfully read Leviticus 11:43 and Revelation 21:8. If you make yourself abominable, that is a sin! Repent.
The new covenant will not save you if you continue being rebellious and stubborn against the word of the Lord. It is a sin to steal and a sin to forget the sabbath (saturday). *1 Samuel **15:23** KJV - For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.* Witchcraft, sorcery idolatry, witches, sorcerers, idolaters will be cast into hellfire. Only they that are washed in the blood of the Lord Jesus and keep his commandments shall be kings and priests. There is no such thing as a sunday rest or sunday sabbath in the Bible. Only the seventh day is blessed, sanctified and hallowed. Isaiah 66:22,23 says that from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh worship before the Lord in the new earth. Matthew 7:21-23 proves that not everyone that says Jesus is Lord will enter the kingdom. We need to do the will of the Father which is to obey and honor our Lord Jesus Christ. He kept the new moons and we ought to keep them.
Find me a Christian man who wants his daughter marrying a man she has to take care of.
Amen!
Find me a Christian man who wants his son marrying a woman he has to take care of. I certainly wouldn't. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership.
If I had a son looking to marry and would tell him in today's world a Christian man should think very long and very hard if he wants to get married at all. You can see here that as the man you can end up with a very raw deal. You are required to love when you are not loved, sacrifice without anything in return, support the family even if she doesn't, support her if she works, support her if she doesn't. If you do not you are a deadbeat. Husbands in media and entertainment are basically the butt of jokes and stupid. Then in return good luck finding a wife that even comes close to uttering the word submit (obey forget it). This is why so many men are no longer getting married. Most westernized women are not marriage material. BTW I have been married to one good woman for 23 years so you can't say I don't know anything.
@@JM-jj3eg Women is man's Helper, not his partner. His role is the protect and provide for her, her role is not to provide and protect him.
@@JM-jj3eg here I am
Thanks for this! My personal thought has always been that if I ever get married and have kids, one of us should be a stay-at-home parent at least through elementary school age (no bad feelings towards any family that has chosen otherwise, just my opinion/plan for my kids). Since I'm still in college (and don't know my hypothetical husband yet), I had sort of decided that I would be ok with either of us becoming the stay-at-home parent depending on our circumstances when the time came. However, I had never heard a Biblical argument for or against stay-at-home dads, nor had I tried to study it myself. I knew I would need to before the time came to make that decision, but I hadn't yet.
Anyway, thanks for giving me some Biblical truth! Now I can make that decision with confidence.
Read all of 1 Corinthians 7
Don’t go into marriage thinking it won’t come with any trouble because it does.
@@TheBeanHome🙄🙄🙄🙄👎👎👎
In Bible times, everyone worked including the kids. The entire household was the productive economic unit. Everyone working together meant survival. Of course, the specific tasks were different between males and females.
Only the elite in society, who lived off of the productivity of others, could avoid the necessity of work.
And the ironic thing is that they weren't nearly as enslaved to their work as we are, today. 40 hours are a minimum requirement for us. Maternity and Paternity leave are a rarity. In those days, the family could plan and arrange their own time off. They didn't always have to work a specific number of hours. And if you're spending 40 or even 60 hours working, it's better to do it with and for your family, on your own land, in a field of real earth that you can feel with your own hands, than to do it in an office full of strangers, banal sounds, in a stagnant air-conditioned room.
The economy is something that people overlook when they think about how we should behave as Christians. I am of the opinion that a wage-based economy is a bad thing because it forces people to work for strangers, on strangers' land, for the sake of strangers' families. For this reason, I love small business freedom and hate corporations. Careers should serve the lord, then the family, then the self, and finally they should serve the employer if there's any left over. Modern American corporo-fascism inverts this hierarchy.
@@josephbrandenburg4373 firstly, "corporo-fascism" takes it WAY too far. Second, if you're working for yourself before your boss, you're not behaving in a Christian way. Small business is great, and corporations can be evil, but there's also a lot of people whose lives have improved drastically because someone with more money than them gave them a job. The lie that bosses just exploit workers comes from people more exploitative than anyone they decry.
I look at it like this: the .0001% have convinced the 99% that the 1% is their enemy.
@@josephbrandenburg4373
Actually, if you look at the underdeveloped societies, they work way more than we do. What you describe is almost subsistance living, and it requires a TON of work compared to what modern jobs do. It may have allowed more flexibility at times in terms of what hours of the day you worked. But that's about it.
"Modern American corporo-fascism inverts this hierarchy."
*Immediately remembers Jesus' parable about the day laborers receiving the same pay working on someone else's land for their wages...corporate fascism*
Yeah, that's not a modern American thing. It is the increase in technology followed by automation that allowed modern societies to get away from having huge portions of their society devoting their time to working the land.
I get where you're going. Just disagree this is something new or that life was somehow easier. It isn't and it wasn't. The difference is that fewer people now live off the land (when you have a large portion of your society farming for everyone, they can live off their own produce). Now that only a small percentage of society really does the farming, more have shifted into what you are describing, but I would argue it has always been there for anyone not directly working the land (Paul, for instance, was a tent maker). The industrial revolution may have seen the establishment of large corporations, but it was exactly that establishment that eventually lead to the improved lifestyles we have today. Corporately people are more efficient. Knowledge and resources are shared which allows better production and R&D. This allowed huge leaps in technology, standard of living, and life spans.
I agree that corporations can be abusive nor are they necesarily ideal (by far no human system is perfect), as many jobs people could do from their homes (carpenters, blacksmiths, etc). But what government under any system in all of history hasn't been?
@@TommyNitro Yeah, I was thinking about the parable, too. But Jesus wasn't telling us how to run an economy there, he was telling us that God has the right to save us regardless of how we have worked, regardless of how long we waited for him. He was telling us about the kingdom of God, not giving assent to an economic system.
I'm not condemning wage labor in its entirety, anyways. I do not deny that we've gained some things since then. I do deny that they have to work harder in the absolute sense (meaning: working for someone else, on someone else's terms, with no flexibility, in a strict, rigid financial system with laws and red tape at every turn; this is harder than physical labor. They didn't commit suicide then like we do today.)
Jesus wasn't telling us how to work in that parable, anymore than Job was advocating for a flat earth in its poetic deacriptiok of creation. God set up an economic system in the Bible, though, in which he gave land to his people and made laws to keep it in their hands. He established their posterity with land. And he commanded them never to take interest when they lend. He commanded them never to withold from their neighbor, but to lend generously, even when the year of Jubilee was at hand. He established the year of Jubilee to set slaves free and forgive debts. He commanded owners of fields to leave the gleanings for the foreigner, the widow, the fatherless.
Obviously we don't have to live like ancient middle-easterners. But God's ways are good, and his laws are beautiful. We should still meditate on them when we rise and as we walk along the way and when we sit down to eat. If only we had learned something from God's way of building the economy, we would have avoided the pain we're going through now.
My criticism is mostly not for the government, save that it permits and protects many of these bad behaviours (for example, by giving ususers the right fo send collection agencies after you for interest on loans). I am most interested in criticizing the people who are heartless and the ones who approve of them because they hope to be in the same position someday. You can't serve God and money.
@@DiggitySlice I work for God first. my family next, then myself (as the head of my family). After that, I can do charity for others. Working for myself first is part and parcel to working for my family above all other human beings.
If you think we don't live in a corporo-fascist state... well, don't research Blackrock. Don't check Nancy Pelosi, her husband, or Dan Crenshaw's stock market gains. Make very sure not to research Disney's involvment in the evolution of copyright law. Avoid reading anything about Pfizer, the WHO, and the CDC.
Technically I am a stay at home Dad. If you were to call me a General Contractor and Day Care Manager then there is no argument, lol
If you have 1 or 2 Children, I can see where a women would be able to stay home. I have 7. To afford to give these Children a good life, both worked opposite "shifts". It's extremely important to have a Male role model for both boys and girls, as much as it is a Womanly role model. In Culture now, I see so much divorce, family infighting, and Children are NOT even considered. The damage done by this shows in how many turn away from God. They are easily led by whatever soothes the pain. This is typically Satanic. Gangs, drugs, etc. abound and we CAN'T be so selfish as to ignore the needs of our kids.
I have 8 kids and to give them a good life, I stay home with them. I make it my job to save money wherever I can. In my case, I know I can save a lot more money than I can make. I feel like there is more peace and calm in the home this way. I couldn't handle going out to work too. So true about the role models. They also need an example of a good marriage. I understand that every situation is different, but 7 kids means there is all the more work and reason to be home.
Stay at home sloth who spends all day listening to Mike Winger videos... HAHAHA you nailed me!
Men give stability, women give love. The man should go out and slay the dragon ( for some of us it is scary, but feels so good when you go do it). So push your man to go after it, but be kind, many men lack confidence, seems like they need to be built up. I did. She delivered, I now feel so much stronger than when I was 20. Makes it easier to love.
Thank you for this. I've seen many well-known preachers use Genesis 3 and Titus 2 to argue women should stay home while the husband works. This issue has caused needless heartache, confusion, and strife for working moms in churches where I live in the Deep South. I wish I knew all this 15 years ago but I sure will remember it now.
Yes, I often wonder do some preachers study the wording and context? It actually to me makes more sense for God to permit the creativity of working out family issues because so many things can happen in life. But the focus which I think we all miss is what does God want me to do as a woman or man? As Mike said men are to be self sacrificial and love his wife like Christ the church. Raise his kids. Women are nurturing, so nurture the family but there are ways to do this in Wisdom. Seeking God on the "how" for that family. I find God is not as restricting as people are in life. 😊
There is a HUGE difference between a husband refusing to work and not being able to work.. and that a parent needs to say home. We need a parent to be at home, and working from home is a good option.
Thank ypu for a healthy ,biblical, teaching of Gods truth. Too many men in ministry push their sexist agenda on others.
The doctrine of complementarianism is not a misogynistic doctrine. When I teach on this topic, I teach about the biblical roles of the Church and then point out that these roles are about order and not about value.
There will always be problems when a women provides for the family and the man stays at home. They can put up a good front sometimes but there never truly happy
Never?
We are.
Depends on the circumstances.
Facts
I'm the president of the company I have with my husband, he's the VP. I'm the one with the title, he now does all the out of the house work while I stay home, do correspondence and technical stuff, and homeschool 3 kids, one more on the way. He also does all the cooking and almost all of the shopping for the kitchen. My pastor's wife (completely stay at home) told me that there was one time where she would get ANGRY if she heard of a woman not cooking for her husband - but she got over it because she realized we all have different situations. We all have to rise to the occasion and put as much as we can into the family.
I think it's pretty clear from scripture that a woman's primary role is to care for her home and her family. Obviously this won't look the same for every woman, but I think we take far too many liberties in convincing ourselves what it CAN look like. If a woman owns a business that is taking her away from her family for 50-60 hours a week, something is wrong. I'm not saying a woman can't do that for a season out of necessity, but if it just becomes a normal way of life, how can she reasonably claim that her focus is her home and family? She cannot.
There's probably more to the situation than you think you know. Her "focus" should be whatever God entrusts to her, not ur one size fits all idea of a household. If she's wrong, trust me ur hyper legalism won't convince her.
@@arcguardian I simply commented based on the given information, and allowed for the fact that a woman caring for her home and family doesn't look the same for everyone, so I'm not sure where you got the impression I have a one-size-fits-all idea of a household. In fact, I think it can be a wonderful (and biblical) thing for a woman to make money for her family in a way that also supports her role as the keeper of the family and home. But as I said previously, we take too many liberties in this area. We convince ourselves that women being away from their homes and families for the majority of their time is okay, or more than that, even somehow godly. I don't intend to make this a legalistic issue. I don't think a woman's salvation depends on this. But I do think God has told us how He wants us to live, and we should be happy to seek His will and live as faithfully toward it as possible.
@@arcguardian Lol, and how do we know what God has entrusted to her? By the Word. If she has children, that’s what God has entrusted to her (Titus 2:1-6), same thing if it’s a house, husband, utilities, etc. proverbs 31
If you want her to resent you and leave you. Then by all means stay home.
A man who does not work to provide for his family is worse than an infidel.
Women should be "keepers of the home"
My question is not, "should a woman work". That's obvious that she should do whatever she can. My problem is, man was not given the task to be a keeper of the home.
In other words, this should be the exception not the rule.
Agree!
Ur saying both should work, but only women should keep. What verse is that?
@@arcguardian Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
The point is you HAVE to define "keepers at home". I think it is culturally defined, but there are definite duties of the wife AT HOME.
I have problems with the "stay at home dad" model because there is almost no way to define "keeper of the home" without breaking the model.
(There are obvious exceptions, but they should be the exception, not the rule.)
It can work in the right circumstances. I do know couples that the guy went out on "disability" and the wife worked. He'd be fishing or laying on the couch all day and didn't do much to help around the house.Those marriages ended in divorce.
Excellent insight on this, thank you & God bless you Mike!
🙏 pastor Mike I always love listening to you, I've learned a lot from you🙏
I'm single so this is just a perspective from someone who has to do it ALL... It's rough. If I were a homemaker (which has long been an unfulfilled desire) then I would make my job the running, upkeep, budgeting, etc of my home (along the lines of the wife's role in Proverbs 31). I don't think it would be my place to make my husband go to work all day and then have to come home and work some more on stuff I should have been doing all day. I work full time and still have a full time job running my house. It's exhausting. I know there are a number of reasons why the man might not be able to work outside the home, but in that case I wouldn't want to have to go to work all day and come home to take care of everything because it didn't get done while I was gone. You might as well be single in that case.
Stay at home dad here, agree with just about everything Mike said. Plus let's not pretend like raising 5, 3, 1 (atm) and homeschooling is an easy task and not WORK. Plus I tend to our farm ministry a few hours a day as well. Working is key for a man to be responsible to his family and God. Working isn't being an employee or even just earning money, it is also literally working the land for the benefit of others in our community, it is doing things that save us thousands of dollars a month, (childcare, home/car maint, home renovating, etc...) Plus from time to time I have side hustles that can generate some income. Plus my wife is smart, makes great money and enjoys her career she has spent a long time building. It's because of her earning potential we can grow thousands and thousands of dollars of food for our local food banks and rescue missions. It's because of her earning potential I can stay home and raise and school our children in the ways of the Lord instead of having them in crazy schools being raised the way of the world and trying to undo everything they learn in the evenings. If we switched roles, these Godly things would not happen. I doubt I could earn half of what she earns therefore she wouldn't be able to stay home without working at all.
We both work hard-- not for money-- but for The Lord. That's the role and ordained dynamic of a Christian family. Work hard day and night for The Lord.
Unfortunately, this clip did not adequately cover all of the scriptures pertaining to the subject, the Titus 2:3-5 model of which we older women are to follow and teach being among them. We each need to search the scriptures for a complete understanding of God's commands and principles pertaining to this most important aspect of life and follow them. As found in both nature and commands, God has given men and women respective, necessary roles pertaining to marriage, family, and the home.
As part of her duties, yes, the Proverbs 31 woman produced some goods and sold them; yes, she considered a field and bought it. However, it does not follow that that meant that she left her precious children to the care of others for 40+ hours a week to pursue a career outside of the home as this would be in contradiction to commands specific to young mothers.
Our society does much to suppress women's God-given maternal instincts. These instincts need to be respected and fostered within the church. Motherhood, and all that it can and should entail, is greatly undervalued in today's culture, I believe to the detriment of all.
@@sm8johnthreesixteen going to work isn't suppressing maternal instincts and it isn't contradiction to commands of young mothers. No where in Titus does it say a mother is commanded NOT to leave the home. She is commanded to be the keeper of the home. My wife works 40 hours a week but make no mistake, is the keeper of this house. Nowhere in scripture does it say a woman shall be chained to the home and not to contribute to the finances of the home. Careful that you aren't adding your thoughts and customs to scripture. A pattern found in scripture is also still just a model, not a command. Fathers are also told in scripture to teach and raise their children.
You don't know what the women in proverbs 31 day was like, neither do I, therefore it is NOT appropriate to draw steadfast conclusions from. You are right to say it didn't mean she left for 40 hours but it also doesn't mean she didnt commit significant time to it.
Anyway always good to visit scripture and see what it says. Keep digging into God's word and drawing near to Him and I hope we strive to leave our minds aside and listen to the word free from preconceived ideas of man so we only hear The Lord.
@@eternalharvestfarm No where did the commenter suggest that young women be 'chained to the home' or could not 'contribute to the finances of the home.' However, if an older woman is told to teach a young mother to be a 'keeper at home' as she cares for her kids as found in Titus 2, it does not reasonably follow that she is not to be found there a majority of her time as in the case of a career mother.
Who would have thought that many believers would consider it an objectionable statement to say that children naturally want and need their mothers? Many parents utilize day care centers 12 hours per day for their children from 6-weeks of age onward--this is unnatural.
The church has largely been neglecting to teach young men to prepare to provide for their families and for young mothers to prioritize their marriages and children after the roles and commands in scripture. Feminist thought has influenced believers. No doubt, both parents make important contributions to the family, but fathers are not mothers, nor mothers, fathers. Role reversal as a norm is confusion.
@@sdlorah6450 sure that's all fine. My apologies. I didnt know we were taking this somewhere else. Yes mother's shouldn't neglect their kids. I didnt think that was the subject of the video. Well it actually wasn't. So I was addressing the subject of the video not the obvious crazy extent of never being around to prioritize career over family because that's not what the folks in the video were talking about. But you are correct. Just know you can be a very very present parent, including a mother, working 40 hours in a 6 figure career. My wife does it marvelously as well as being everywhere with the kids and doing ministry. I know kids need their mothers but they also need their fathers. I know that goes against the conventional ideas of man that kids need helicopter mothers 24/7 and dad occasionally but that is NOT biblical. Constantly through scriptures it paints a CLEAR picture that kids need 2 active parents, and both mother and father are called to teach, set example, and lead their kids to the cross. So logic, that beautiful thing God blessed us with, would lead us to understand any parent can financially contribute to the family so long as both parents are taking on their god given duties of raising their kids to honor the Lord
How about reading the book of Proverbs in me what it says about a good wife? Because a good wife works, earns income, etc.
I'm a stay at home dad. Believe it out not, i get less flak from christians then from non-christian. It wasn't the plan. I have a degree (which generally hurt more than help when it came to getting a job). My wife is an RN. Eventually when we had our daughter, financially and logistically (my wife is a surgical nurse) it made sense for me to stay home. When it comes to taking care of kids, my personality is much more in tune with that job than she is (shes usually going crazy to get back to work at the end of a long break home). It really isn't a one size fits all situation. It allowed us to let my wife get an advanced degree, stay home without issues during COVID. Wasn't our plan, but was the best thing for our family.
Your wife needs to repent if she’s literally going against what God has called her to do. She’s literally designed to stay with her children and you say she hates it. There’s a lot wrong there.
I do find it interesting that Jesus's own ministry seemed to be supported by women as it says in Luke 8:1-3.
"Soon afterward, Jesus began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means."
The answer is: IT DOESN'T MATTER! It really makes me sad to see those who call themselves Christians, refer to the old testament to try to find the answers for their questions. If you are a Christian, it doesn't matter who "brings home the bacon". As Jesus said, people are in error because they don't know the scriptures or the power of God, they don't read the bible anymore, otherwise they would know what says Gl 3:28 and they wouldn't be clueless about gender related issues. God bless you all!
Biblical case seems to be there, Mike.
“Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.” Titus 2:3-5
I don't see this as really any different than men who are expected to be good managers of the house in 1 Timothy 3. Likewise in 1 Timothy 5 women are "oikodespotein
or "house ruler" - literally house despot. That doesn't preclude working for gain for men or women in addition to ensuring the house is well run. In fact, the Proverbs 31 woman is very industrious. She considers a field and buys it out of her earnings, and it ends with "give her the product of her hand". We also see women supporting Jesus out of their own means.
I disagree that people must have 2 incomes in modern culture, but I understand why people hold that position.
Likewise!
it shouldn’t be necessary but it typically is 🥲
I love you, Mike.
As a homeschooling father of four, I struggle to feel validated in my work with my children.
(Especially after listening to other pastors claim that a man at home is not please the Lord)
I went from being a commercial electrical foreman for 12 years, to supporting my wife who runs a business that is far more monetarily successful than my trade career.
She always wanted to be able to have our kids homeschooled. I teach my children, make most meals and do all upkeep of our property. I’ve been blessed with the ability to spend many hours pouring Gods word into my children along with their scholastic studies.
Thank you for always taking a wise and nuanced approach to every topic you discuss. Love you, man.
As a homeschooling mom I too struggle to feel validated in my work with my children. You are not less of a man or husband for working at home! You’re doing the Lord’s work and raising your kids to know him. Your good works at home were laid out by God for you to do. Ephesians 2:10
Well done!
Personally, I don't agree with it. There are situations that do come up where the man cannot work for whatever reasons. But if you are healthy and able. Get your butt to work and be a man.
Personally I don't think anyone cares. We aren't beholden to ur views lol. Mike made a clear case against staying at home for the wrong reason. One size fits all isn't biblical on this subject, and if it is I'd love to see the verse.
@@arcguardian Proverbs 31, Titus 2:4-5. Those are the biblical verses for women to be caretakers of the home, no biblical texts exist (at least of my knowledge) that command a man the same, we’re called to provide, we’re the stronger vessel and we’re to lead the house.
@@arcguardian who was argueing a one size fits all? What people have argued is a ideal, that on avg produces best results
If the wife is more passionate about her career than housewifery, and if the husband *isn't* being senselessly avoidant, then there's nothing disgraceful about his decision not to return to the workforce.
If the wife is more passionate about her career than there’s a bigger problem here, she needs to reevaluate her priorities. She’s commanded by scripture to prioritize her husband, children and household, nowhere does it talk about a job there.
Timestamp 4:16-4:24 is the answer to the discussion, she can work but not if it is an obstacle to caring for the home, family, husband. Working 40-60 hours a week outside the home wouldn’t leave enough time to care for the home, family, husband properly. There is freedom in Christ so it’s up to couples to work things out with leadership from the Holy Spirit but the Biblical model remains.
And Timestamp 6:51 is another example of the one making the sacrifice in working outside the home as the provider
"Today’s video has a surprising amount of bad takes in the comments section." This is really a more complicated issue than people realize, because there are so many factors to consider, including customs, habits, and attitudes many Christians believe are biblical, but are in truth, purely cultural. While the Bible is clear on gender (only two, male and female, clearly defined; see "anatomy"), it is not as clear on _roles_ as many Christians think. We know what a "woman" _is_ , but what does a woman _do_ ? And since the early church existed in a male dominated culture, it was understandable, if unfortunate, that Christians assumed that that culture is, therefore, the model for us all. We neglect to think, "But that culture was also far different from the culture of the Patriarchs as well, and we don't try to force everyone into an agrarian patriarchal system, do we (unless you're Amish, in which case, you won't be reading this anyway😇)? Do conservative Christian fathers arrange the marriages of their children? No? That's "the Bible way"! And the model wife in Proverbs 31 sounds more like a real estate entrepreneur than a "stay-at-home mom." We need to prayerfully and _humbly_ work out for our own world what the roles of men and women, fathers and mothers, husbands and wives are, staying as close to the spirit of scripture as possible when the letter is unclear or may be anachronistic. Bless you Mike! I appreciate your courage and determination to "think Biblically"!
Skeptics and modernists think the Bible teaches women's weakness, powerlessness. They don't know my mom, who would always submit, but made sure her counsel was known. After voicing her opinion, if Pop disagreed, she would (usually) be like, "I don't believe this is best, but I will give you my full support if this is what you decide to do." Her track record was so good, that just disagreeing was usually enough for Pop to concede! Power and authority are not the same things; in many respects, Pop might have had authority, but Mom had most the power!
Thank you! You put that so well! So many people want to stick to one model in the name of "being biblical" and because they're afraid of modern feminism that they, like you said, don't even realize that half of what they're saying is just based on the culture of the time.
People don't realize that often it takes a lot of strength and power to submit.
its easy to puff up and insist on our own way. But i have a lot of respect for those who stand up to their spouses/bosses in a way that is both firm and expressed but also respectful and in submission on issues for the good of the unit!
When I was a young adult my dad confessed to me how men are to lead the home but LISTEN to their wives and take to heart what they are saying. He mentioned the times he did not listen (arrogantly)...was each time he failed. I knew what he was trying to tell me. Scriptures don't lie.
My husband and I are missionaries (stateside, serving in Arkansas), and we love working together serving the Lord. While my husband was getting his grad degree, we had a season where I was the breadwinner (we lived in South Dakota then, which is a very inexpensive state, and you can live on one income there). That was a temporary situation, but it was a good time. My husband loved his studies, and I enjoyed my job. My work hours were M-F, 7am-3pm, pretty similar hours to his classes, so we had our time together in the afternoon and evening. But it's even better now, doing ministry together full-time.
Titus 2:3-5 (ESV): Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.
Seems pretty clear to me
Exactly
Long story short: those ideas are great but when “exceptions to the rule” happen there are nuances to every situation.
Q: If both parents work who has the duty to raise the children? Our children are a gift that God expects US as parents to take care of. The word mother (nurturer) says it all. I know there are always exceptions. Maybe being content where one is in life would help answer the question "how much material possessions do we really need?
"Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves." Philippians 2:3
Humbly serve others following the perfect example of Jesus. He said that He came not to be served but to serve others and give His life for others. (Matthew 20:28). Let us be humbled by the awesomeness and greatness of God and the unworthiness of ourselves. CS Lewis said that true humility is not thinking less of yourselves but rather thinking of yourself less. Let us look each day for opportunities to serve God and thus others, and be empowered by the Spirit to do these things glorifying God. Hopefully this impacted you positively today. God bless you!
Amen, glad to see a ray of light in this bitter comment section. Man wasn't made for the sabbath, the sabbath was made for man.
I appreciate this video. The whole traditional family dynamic is something my family has been having to consider changing in recent months. My husband lost his job and it's only by the grace of God that we've been scraping by, working whatever odd jobs either one of us can get.
I will say, though, that staying home with the kids is not as easy as Mike Winger makes it sound 😂 I homeschool our four children and I often don't make it into bed until around midnight because of everything needing to be done around the house (and yes, the kids help). Then I'm up again as soon as the baby is up, which was just before 5 this morning. I could do nothing but cook and clean all day with barely a break to eat and still have plenty to do. It's not easy. Add the constant interruptions from babies and toddlers needing care... You get the picture
I understand there are special circumstances. But in general a woman’s focus and priority should be her home and her family. And a man’s should be provision and protection for them.
I can only imagine this question arising in evangelical USA. Much of its culture seems to be a superficial moralism, rather than a gracious living in the Spirit. The Bible is not a rule book, it is the revelation of who we are before God and an introduction to the Spirit-filled life. It is an orienting text, not a list of dos and don'ts. Notwithstanding Paul does give both circumstantial and absolute instructions throughout; not as rules, but as consequential checks on who one is and how one lives that out.
And it seems to come from a place of pride and a false sense of superiority. If you don't do x in a specific manner then you're not a "real man" or "real woman."
The man should not stay at home to work. I agree with you about 90% of the time.
HOWEVER< there are allowances for illness, DISABILITY, and unique situations. This is why you have to be careful about it. And in theory there may be situations where the wife earns like 5 times or more than the man; at that point there's so much efficiency loss that there's no sense in it.
I find this a worry that few people are going to see that there are allowances for disability and long term health problems where the man could stay at home. But this shouldn't be self inflicted illness from going out and bindge drinking or drugs either. Like people born with health problems, that they didn't cause themselves.
The wife should work at home. Yes. If its possible. But also there's many women that say how hard it is to work at home and they are couch surfing only watching TV, doing nothing for the kids and they see she doesn't care for them. That's almost worse than the man working at home because the kids see their mom doesn't do anything for them.
@noahriding5780 I agree! Males should work at a real job more often than not (with few exceptions that you successfully pointed out). I have an interesting experience with this because my dad can side with my mom over the facts of the matter of something just to take the easy way out when I support the facts first and then all the people that should stay in accordance with them. My dad eventually finds that the facts are never wrong and his diffidence to take the easy way out by siding with a person's opinion (especially my mother) never works for anyone ... EVER! My brother has fallen into that same twisted thinking when it comes to this, except in his case, it is far more caustic than that of my father's since he not only sides with people just to take the easy way out, he also never (or hardly ever) takes the initiative with anything ... other than with hedonistic/materialistic criteria. He is getting married on October 6th this year, but as much as I agree with having PROPER GENDER ROLES, he has the mentality of a female if not worse because males are not supposed to be materialistic hardly at all. They are supposed to be stewards for their wives!! His girlfriend nearly works in reverse. She takes the initiative far more than he does, but they BOTH STILL FAIL to understand biblical concepts correctly and stay in alignment with them hardly at all. They explicitly label themselves as "Christian" but then they make up their own laws more than half the time, so BY DEFINITION, they would be equated to AGNOSTICS, not "Christian." It is incredibly manipulative when Christians use their labels/appearance/ambiguous drivel just to do away with what real Christians should be doing with their respective mindset and actions that are in Christ. Also ... his girlfriend bought my brother a cross shaped necklace as a gift, but ONCE AGAIN, that means NOTHING other than just changing your appearance superficially. It is ludicrous to me as to how they can think that makes any sense AT ALL! His girlfriend's entire family are almost all exactly like him in that regard. Truth be told, based on what their mindset is like based on their emotional dissonance, they would ALL be considered "AGNOSTIC"!! I really wonder whether or not GOD can really see things as I do, but if He does, the overall point is that you can not always trust a person's explicit labels that they use for themselves just to get ahead. Females are supposed to be emotionally centered, and males are supposed to be the stewards for females. Period, end of story, THE END! Other than the very few exceptions mentioned above, which I still would very much agree with.
I apologize for maybe sounding a bit bigoted when it comes to these things, but it is especially frustrating in my case when my family plays the GET OUT OF JAIL card too much!! That is my reasoning for getting so heated when these atrocities occur. Facts/Bible first, THEN PEOPLES' OPINIONS LATER!!
My commendations go to you again, Mike Winger! Yet another very thoroughly researched video with orthodox biblical doctrines EXPOUNDED!
That's a lot of mental gymnastics to reverse what's plain in scripture.
As I've posted, even under the Old Covenant,
women could work and buy land. It was just fine.
She makes fine linen and sells it, and delivers sashes to the merchant.
She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
-excerpts Proverbs 31
@@8784-l3bexactly my point
No woman should be under the authority of any other man (or woman) except for her husband.
If a man is demanding his wife to work 50-60 hours, as Mike stated, instead of her being home with her children, that is simply disgusting.
On the flip side, unless you're out saving actual lives, I don't believe a man should be spending that amount of time away from his family either.
Our society has tricked our women that a career is her most important part of her life, it tricked men into thinking the same thing.
The most important part of people's lives should be their relationship with God, and then their relationship with their family.
Unfortunately, the current economic/political systems we have put in place has put us all in situations that force both parties to work, leaving the children high and dry.
Women may, most of the time, have more of a desire to be home with the kids. But I agree it is not a hard and fast rule 👍
Lots of great comments. I believe it is tough being a preacher trying to take our modern culture fit into scripture. It is a problem of a square peg and a round hole. From a historical perspective, we are in a time that humans have never seen in our 6K plus years. Throughout all of history you have had the sphere of men and the sphere of women. Both equally important but very different. Women did not interfere in the sphere of men and men did not interfere in the sphere of women. The world was family oriented, not individual oriented like it is today. This is part of the reason modern culture cannot reflect scripture. The #1 job within the woman's sphere was running the household. This was important because the surrounding community will judge not only the woman, but the husband and their children on how well the household is run. This was a very important job for the family throughout all of history.
Even if you can't find a definitive scripture for this question, it is part of human nature, which is also God's design. God made women the nurturer. God made women compassionate and empathetic to children. These are not qualities found naturally in men. The natural God-given parts of human nature place both male and female in their natural role. This is how it has been for 6K plus years. Only in modern times have we rebelled against God's design...and we are now reaping the results. This includes total "liberation" of women. This liberation denies female nature and has led us down the road of destruction. That's a longer conversation than we have time for.
Not moral but never agreed in this topic with Pastor Mike.
God's command in Genesis is clear as water.
What command is that specifically and how does it become a rule for every single man and every single woman in every single marriage?
@@MikeWinger Genesis 3:16
Like you argued that ADAM refers to mankind but in this passage God is referring to the husband.
With pain, why, because he obeyed the woman.
That is the context and not Mankind.
@UC6P-94e_bDdr2YfjxqQDyBw Thanks God and my faith in him I am the only provider to my home, including my in-laws.
Maybe I don't have a nice house or beautiful car and that's why I can happily provide to my family and be content that I have a roof over my head.
@@MikeWinger there's wiggle room and tho I can't think of any explicit commands (tho I would disagree with your flippancy of the curse argument and Timothy), I also think there's a lot of underground support. For instance, a lot of people take Deborah as a great example of a woman, which is true but she's also meant to be a subversion of the norm (which implies there's a norm - the subversion being only in the kingdom, not worldly marriage). A girl, a left-hander, a non-israelite, and a fool all headline judges as unlikely heros (to display God's work). Tho this isn't a direct commentary on work (and I think there's good grounds for a woman to raise money as an extension of her skills (not the primary aspect)), it seems that women as the primary conqueror in the more societal sphere is against the norm. I think if the husband becomes crippled or something maybe you can justify her taking on that role. But it's also just as possible that Paul cares so much about social order that he would say, "actually, just have the church or, first, her other family members, support her." Which is what he says.
@audrey maranda The clear answer here is a question that pastor Voddie Baucham asks in his sermons. “Have you seen Christian women in the delivery room?”. We are in Christ, but we still have not been freed from the PRESENCE of sin, so both the physical and spiritual curses are prevalent in Christians still.
Very wise counsel. I really benefit from thinking through thoughtful interpretation that differs from my own. Love seeing how God uses His children!
I think you missed the mark on the issue Winger. It is not that specific passages or versus hammer home the male role...the entire Bible orients around MEN....MALES...as being the head of the wife, the head of the family, the ones engaged in farming, trading, what ever means of earning effort. From the very first Patriarchs this is the pattern, the men sit at the gates of the city, the men are the herdsmen, the men are the tillers of the soil. I don't know how you can miss that except that you were too intently focused on finding discreet, to the point Biblical passages that define clearly the role of the male. Far as I can see all world cultures follow the pattern of the male being the bread winner and in leadership roles....the woman running the household, bearing children and having the primary duty to raise them. Women and men are not equally endowed with gifts, God created each with traits and abilities both physically and emotionally. A woman is created finer than a man, that is she has greater sensibilities and sensitivities, she tends to be much more spiritually aware and has a capacity to endure specific stresses of raising kids and running a household as well as responding to her man even when bearing such a load....much more so than men. As Christ is the head of us so is the man the head of the woman and in so he has a definite responsibility to make good his designated function and role.
What is interesting is how many Christians will say “well if the woman makes more then she should work!” Which might be the best if the husband’s job won’t put food on the table, but where did God say “follow the money?”
True. Women are just not deserving of careers accoring to your god. This is honestly a great example why Christianity was a mistake
Thank you for bringing up the fact that the “relying only on the husband’s income” thing is a product of post industrial revolution. It gets really annoying when people don’t realize (or care) that they’re basing their Christian living standards on certain cultural standards they personally like. Just do what’s best for your family. Also, what I find funny is when people go on about how women used to stay home back then but don’t consider how several of those households had hired help especially if they were wealthy. Who do you think were the hired help?
Not true, two income household were the norm, but the husbands income was the most significant portion, so the family essentially relied mostly on the husbands income throughout most cultures and societies in human existence.
Lol that is feminist point of not Christian also back up that claims with sources because that is bold statement with literally no proof
@@cisuminocisumino3250income? Historically most people were farmers or hunter gathers. Their income was next to nothing.
Mike, just ran across your channel, fantastic. Have you ever considered shortening your vids? They are LOOOONNNGGGG. I think you would achieve getting this great, honest teaching to a broader audience. The adult attention span is most effective at 20 mins. Of course, this is too short for the kind of exegesis that you are doing, but perhaps a 30 or 40 min chunk might be more effective? :)) BTW, at time mark 5:55 you begin to mention the stay at home dad having two hours watching Mike Winger videos (plural). There needs to be a correction. If he had two hours to kill he would not be watching Mike W. videos plural, he would only have time to watch ONE....Haaaaaaaaaa...:))
He has short and long ones like this one. The long ones I just break up if I don't have time. 20 minutes here or there or the entire time. You see the problem is most people don't read the Bible and/or for understanding. You need time to do that. More than 10 minute video. Just listen in snippets. ☺️
There seems to have been a tradition for influential (well off) Israelites to spend their time sitting at the entrance to the village, town or city discussing things with the (other) elders. I think that means that the wives were doing the work. In Psalms a man is called blessed who has a good wife who is described as having several businesses manufacturing, sales and trade, devoting time to charity AND taking care of her family. Paul finds a woman named Lydia at a place of prayer and she insists that he be her houseguest. She is a merchant ie full time job. She does have a husband. Since she is working what is he doing?
I've thought about this recently. In reading through parts of the bible, at least in that ancient culture, it sure looks like the wives are doing pretty much..........everything, and the husbands are often studying, talking, or doing other things that aren't work. This makes me scratch my head sometimes lol.
@@moriahw3947 even work has its seasons.
Amen! Thank you! There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a stay at-home dad, provided he’s actually taking care of things and not just gaming all day or being a loaf. Is the family strong? Are the children being raised by the parents? That’s the biggest thing that matters.