Congrats on the 7k. I was the one who asked if there was an update to the year old video. I was expecting just maybe a list of five or so to look at, but this is way better. Thanks so much. Hopefully everyone else enjoys it a lot as well.
If you only play one deck and have been playing Magic for a few years I think a beginner to cedh can handle most decks. I have about 4-5 decks I try to play and sometimes I forget obscure lines, I'd be better if I just played 1
Great list ! I started in cEDH with Kinnan and it was really helpful than I pivoted into Niv-Mizzet to learn good stack interaction, feel like it could be in simple but limited for him. Now I'm on Tasigur, mainly mid-range list, which I feel is kind of great for new cEDH player avec some great color, plus a commander that can be easy to cast with cost reduction built-in and can let you pivot between turbo and midrange list.
Kinnan art deterred me from playing the deck but I can’t deny the power. I found a Ace Ventura proxy art for Kinnan so now I’m way more interested lol. I took your advise and started making proxy for a cEDH deck.
I play Tayam as my first CEDH deck so its funny seeing you put it in the Don't tier (I agree with you). I play Gifts Storm and Amulet in modern so maybe I'm just a masochist.
I play cormela and I completely agree with your evaluation of her. I don't suggest her to anyone but I love the combos with her. Some games I just don't do anything tho. I'm now building marneus as a second cedh deck for more tournament based games and such.
I play Selvala. As someone who is a college student with not too much extra money to spend on cedh, it has done wonderfully in my local meta. I dont plan on going to any large tournaments, so I think it does the trick just fine. Fast, unsuspecting, fun.
Certainly a playable deck that has extra benefits if you're not playing in a proxy friendly store. I'm pretty partial to it because I do enjoy the big mana creature storm stuff a lot.
For Magda, think about the count to 15 treasures. You need Magda + an artifact dwarf (5) + a reliable, reusable tapper (vehicle, 5) + clock (5). Or Magda + the reliable, reusable tapper (5), + Maskwood Nexus (5) + Battered Golem (5). Each of those lines requires 3 tutors, or 15 treasures, and gets reduced by your board state.
For "playing cEDH for the first time" intro decks, my vote would be for Godo, Kinnan, Yuriko, and Winota. Their gameplans are simple and strong, and showcase a variety of archetypes. I wouldn't recommend dedicating to Godo or Winota, but that has nothing to do with them being a beginner.
Im just getting into cedh and this channel has been a bounty! my first deck is Korvold which isnt on this list but seems well known. Cant wait to practice and get better!
Coming from a Krarkashima Pilot who got into cEDH from Krark, I believe that there are too many nuisances for newer magic players to understand. I have a friend who is new to MTG and I fear the idea of playing Krark against them due to the large stack that usually results from the deck. I don't recommend it for newer players, but it's super fun and interesting.
Ok, i wanna add something about gitfrog. It was my second cedh deck, and to this day my favorite deck in all of mtg so i might be a little biased. Yes its hard to grasp when you're starting and you probably will fail a lot. I spent about 2 weeks reading large textfiles and watching videos about koziland loops, necropotence mechanics, graveyard hate stop, cleanup step sculpts and i have to say this was a journey. If you are willing to dedicate some time in learning it and you like to spam one deck - go for it. Yes, its not that powerful, but man its fun to pilot when you know what ur doing. This is a genius of deckbuilding that is on another level imo ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD
I know Selvala is basically all but a dead deck, but god damn do I still love playing her. She’s so fun to play, even if I know she’ll get smashed by every top tier deck, piloted well, in the cEDH sphere haha. If I’m being honest, and it’s a hot take, but she’s basically now more of a very high powered EDH deck. I don’t even know if I consider her cEDH anymore, but I’ll always keep that deck together and have a blast playing it. Great video!
I personally recommend Blue farm so that the player can learn the format from the perspective of the meta defining deck. All your control and threat assessing is meant to be built around that. Knowing when to hold em and when to fold em begins and ends with the format defining deck. After that, I recommend jamming something really controlling, like Yuriko. Yuriko teaches you how to play control really well. After THAT, you play whatever interests you, because you'll have the experience under your belt to make an informed decision.
Especially if I know the player has a strong background in Magic, I'm very willing to hand them TnK. I get a lot of newer people who are inexperienced but still really want to get into the game, and those are usually the ones I point elsewhere at least while they get comfortable with the format. The one perk of handing someone the best deck is that if they're willing to get in there and play even if they lose at first is that there's no question of the list and sooner or later they'll be winning games.
As someone who started on and plays magda. It's pretty tricky and I run a staxier list. Though I have cut all of the memory jar loops since one ring was printed. Probably going to find a lot of diverse lists too. One of my win cons is hellkite charger Infinite combat. Which people don't expect because no one does it. Playing one list doesn't mean you can understand all magda decks
Niv is definitely viable and i even have a (slightly outdated) video specifically about Niv. The wincons are simple, the commander is pretty broken if you get it in play, its the control gameplan you have to play up until then that can make it tricky. It's a deck with a few dedicated pilots who have good results though it's not known as a top performer.
Malcolm Tana was my first cedh deck. I would say it's excellent for someone new because it's easy to pick up, resilient, and versatile. Being in temur offers a lot of interaction and can survive stax decks by having easy access to seedborn muse. What sets it back is that, beyond fetching muse or archaic, tana is useless 80% of the time. I've since transitioned to piloting Dargo-thrasios because having a wincon that can recover from exile/skip combat/card draw limitation effects is way better than relying on a glint-horn win. Also, no love for Korvold?
Malcolm/Tana definitely seems like a solid place to start. Korvold would honestly probably go into don't do it. It's a very hard deck to pilot. I love it, but it's not where I would point a new person. Maybe some of the builds that are closer to the Midrange style stuff we've talked about and seen in Japanese events, but turbo korvold manual storm is just a lot.
I have been playing cedh for a couple of years with friends. Started out with Godo and I have to say that it learned me a lot ablut patiently waiting for my chance and applying stax when necessary. It was a list with blood moon/magus and other hate pieces like trinisphere and chalkce of the void. But I get that it can be very linear and not fun to play.
whenever a new comer to cedh comes to the lgs i hand them either my marneus or ob nyx deck if they want to join a cedh pod to get an understanding of the format. they capture the essence of lets do cool things but also can win with little pregame assistance. My friend who only started a month ago his first win was last weekend just borrowing my ob nyx at a cedh table. after loosing with his boros precon for a couple weeks. so hes now converting his boros precon to winota so he has a cedh deck of his own that can sideboard easily to be proxyless at sanctioned events.
I'm surprised we didn't see Winota in the list. She's a very popular deck. She's not performing the best right now but I'd put it into "Simple but Limited" tier. Game plan is pretty clear but interaction against an early win is almost non-existent unless you hit a stax piece. I guess if you count it with Heliod it'd be apart of the list, but I believe Winota is a tier above the hard stax decks. Stax with a clock is pretty good imo, even if Winota hasn't been performing as well anymore.
i have a ob nixilis deck i have been working on still missing a couple things but its a really fun deck to play tons of interaction and probably some of the best card advantage you can get.
As a magda pilot I'd put her in "not ideal" but she is still very much potentially worth investing the time into learning even as a newer player. Mainly because some of the main lists aren't on enough interaction (imo) to really have a chance to dig yourself out of some board states against decks that do have some counters to what you're doing (God damn cursed totem). At the very least she requires specific pieces to be in the decklist to circumvent problematic cards such as Blind Obedience/Dauntless Dismantler to allow you to still get to the "i make infinite treasures" stage which not every list are on. Knowing what to tutor for and when in regards to board states like this requires a lot of reps and comfort using some stax pieces that builds one would even be consider "turbo" versions of her are running. There are certainly many ways to build her to where you are threatening a win off of a single search however when you're learning CEDH being able to politic your way out of constant removal (similar to the problem winota has come up against after taking off as a deck) because of this is paramount and requires a lot of understanding of not just your own deck but the format itself along with the decks others are playing (at least meta decks) to potentially allow her to stick. She is a great commander and has answers/silver bullets in most pods but can take quite a bit of piloting to understand some of the non-combo based nuance to the deck like you said. She can still be a good commander if people want to put the work into it and because she isn't a "solved" deck once people get their feet wet they can decide to play her in a multitude of ways that are all valid with some variance in approach which not many decks can say. If you are a newer player and still want to play magda please head over the magda CEDH discord! We'd love to have you :) Magda Discord: discord.gg/4z7FdGNgcR
Magda can the excellent for it being straight forward, the trick is what to do with 5 treasures and no artifact dwarf on board and everyone targets Magda making 10 treasures out of reach (insta-win). That one tutor choice can be painfully difficult for new players. Magda still my favorite build, when the wincon hits, it’s unstoppable
Tivit was my first cEDH commander, I’ve since built kinnan and ob nix for something different lol. I’m really interested in trying out sissay and atraxa
@LemorasCards video idea for newbie cEDH players. How to defend against the top decks out there. For example, what do you do to slow down or stop a sisay deck, topics like what are you watching out for in your pod when you see certain commanders…
As a new-ish player, I'm constantly having to ask how a certain deck is going to win. I've got a good number of them down, but then someone runs something totally out there and I have to dig into their lines to figure out what's going to happen.
Thank you! I think it's a good simple deck to pickup, the main thing going against it would be that it doesn't really play similar to other decks in the format so it's not great at teaching you some of the common play patterns beyond just seeing other people do them in game. So if it's a type of deck you want to play, go for it, but it's not gonna be the best at teaching you some parts of the format. Also be mindful that some of the stax pieces will have some complexity with them based on the pod you're in.
I recently got into CEDH and I picked K'rrik not because I absolutely love him it's because I had the actual card and said well I own it I'll build it and so I watched videos on how it played its combos and win cons and it's been pretty fun no hate it is a hard deck to play but fun as well
Thanks a lot for this video, is very helpful. What do you think about Pako and Haldan? Could it be a good option to play on a budget? (you are playing your opponents expensive cards). Thank you :)
It may be tricky. But can u make a tier list in the same fashion that is just 1 level up from this. "The CZ you should try when you are ready to level up your Piloting" Be it that the have Consulted win lines. Or they are pseudo fringe or under represented. Or the require good knowledge of the meta game to play thru it. These decks are likely tier A and tier B but there are some that come to mind Like Heliod//Eclipse or Narset that just require the tiny bit more of skill to really make the list hum. But it rewards the pilots growth as you play them
in my opinion, most commander options that touch "green" will typically reward you for using their one mana "mana dorks" and they're alot cheaper than getting the "super mana rocks" especially when you build toward FOOD CHAIN. And your only other "high dollar" cards you'd have to acquire would be Allosaurus Shepherd, something halfling, Boreal Druid, Destiniy Spinner, and if your touching red Vexxing Shusher. Once your doing any color combination that doesn't touch green the $$$ goes up, especially if you touch blue.
Unctus has actually probably been the best performing mono-blue deck recently, but I don't know enough about the list to know how beginner friendly it is. That's probably where I'd point people though over decks like Urza which have really struggled.
It is a pretty powerful deck, arguably one of the better proactive ones in the format for me, but it's also a true manual storm deck and has a lot of moving pieces so it's hard to recommend for new players. It was my first one as well!
@LemorasCards I like the difficulty of not having blue and needing to find where I can have a chance to play. I'm not exactly new to the game of EDH though. I've been playing for over 10 years and the deck started off as a competitive Prossh Food Chain list before cEDH really developed into what it is today.
I started with selvala. Still play it, but it pains me to agree with you. So often I find myself with infinite mana but no outlet and that feels bad when opponents draw cards because someone down the block sneezed.
I'm wondering about something. Not about the video, more of a general question. I notice Selvala showing up on a bunch of lists for better or worse and no Yisan. I've built and played both decks and Selvala can be a bit more explosive than Yisan but in my experience it's much less consistent for a little more explosiveness. I think Yisan is the stand alone best mono green commander and I don't think it's that close. That being said it's very complicated.
I think I've covered 1 or 2 of them getting top 16, for the most part it's just tough out there for mono blue in general, the staxy part of the deck kinda struggles to be relevant right now, and it's probably the biggest Dockside feeder and also can't run dockside. Also has relatively clunky wincons
Agree on a lot of what you said about Kenrith, but I think it's "hard to BUILD for newer players". If they just netdeck I think it's fine for new-ish players. Better than T&K. It's just filled with A+Bs and tutors in a way that lets you make very simple heuristics for mulligans
Depending on what you want out of them, I might point someone somewhere else, but I think they provide a good balance of being approachable, powerful, and giving you experience with format staples. Maybe simple but limited, though the more dedicated to fast Underworld Breach wins the deck is probably the trickier it could be.
Has some of the same issues as the temur decks where it can require tricky tutor chains, but seems like a strong enough deck it can be worth either working up to as a new player or if you're determined to play it just stick it out while you're learning. So somewhere in not ideal, could move up to strong but tricky if the deck keeps doing well.
Dargo math is weird. He's insanely cracked, sure, but still a big step up to wrap your head around. I'm glad to see tayam in bait, deck is strong but it's rube Goldberg.dec I will say I think tournament results probably aren't a great way to gauge suitability for a newbie. At some point, reps and talent as a pilot will give any competent pilot a leg up, and a lot of conversion rates rely on which grinders are off their known builds, like waffle switching to blue farm from darg thras.
Probably depends on the build, but some of what I said about Tevesh/Kraum can apply there as well. Seems like a fine place to start, just know that sultai in the meta has been a bit shaky.
the only disagree i have is tivit. Depending on the new players skill level and understanding of the stack and various decks and wincons, control can be way too complex to start out with, id go for that as a second or third deck after they have learned the meta and what cards are threats and what cards arent
@@LemorasCards Ik of few already top 16 an even top 4 include myself with it . Curious on where you would have put it. I have spicy list if want ever see it for fun
Depends a bit on the build. It can be a very big brain deck that requires a lot of pivoting, though it's nice it has two commanders that can be great in different scenarios. It wouldn't be the first deck I recommend, but if someone really wanted to play Mardu then there's probably a variant of it that'll suit them well if they're willing to put the reps in.
JT might be one of the most complicated decks I ever played in cedh, i never felt confident enough to enter a tourney with it. would not recomend to a beginner. way to many pivots just know ing a good opening hand is practce. where as ob nyx pretty much hand holds you thru the combos.
So here's a list of recent Tevesh/Kraum decks to look through: edhtop16.com/commander/Kraum,%20Ludevic's%20Opus%20+%20Tevesh%20Szat,%20Doom%20of%20Fools?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1699592400 Here's the version I'd probably recommend for a faster version of the deck: www.moxfield.com/decks/EyYVpvKJ1k2qwNWcVoewoQ and here's a build that's a bit more on the midrange side: www.moxfield.com/decks/IrRC8le700ScQMfb2K-VQA
@@LemorasCards Another question if you don't mind. Are there any game play or deck tech videos that you can recommend that would help me learn the deck and some lines to follow ? I'm having a hard time finding some that aren't super old
@@LemorasCards ahehehe i've been piloting some of the decks like Kinnan, Najeela, Sisay, Bloodpods, Polymorphs, Madfarm, and etc for a while, and I really gotta say Sisay will be a torture to the brain for any beginner and even experienced players.. but yeah, on the other hand Kinnan is just straight up brain dead gaming.. very flexible and easy to understand strats.. I sometimes recommend Godo though I always warn them of the downsides because once you screw with Godo it is over..
I'm not really sure, it's had some good results so seems playable, though I usually recommend non poly rog/thras builds right now since I think they're pretty broken. Seems like a fine place to start for me.
Probably into not ideal. It hasn't had a lot of success or popularity recently, and 5c is inherently a little tricky. I'd probably point people towards atraxa or even Etali over since the commanders do more on their own. Rocco is another option but that deck is obviously very tutor heavy. Ukkima/Cazur is another option that doesn't have a ton of recent results but in theory seems like a solid start for food chain players.
Yeah, I should've covered that. It's easy to pickup and play, but man is that deck looking dead right now and it will get you targeted ridiculously hard. I think that deck has led to a lot of frustrating and lopsided games where newer people picked it up and crushed their friends but then once you're against people who threat assess it properly it can feel miserable and like there's nothing you can do. Piloting that deck successfully right now, if it's going to be done, probably requires a lot of skill/experience.
@@LemorasCardsI agree that it suffers from the lack of variance in play patterns much like Yuriko does but doesn't have the freedom to just play out an Oracle Consult for a win and many many newer players picked it up and helped to conteibute to it suffering from being immediately targeted in pods for removal because of how absolutely dead simple it's play patterns are right now. Moving forward the deck should be looking to lean into more a+b combos like Breath of Fury+Aura Touched Mage and OFF of thorn effects and into burn and damage dealing that work alone outside of with Winota on board. Why the main list isn't on Scytheclaw Raptor is beyond me, but that's just my opinion as someone who's been playing it since 21/2. Tldr: Main list online is hyper optimized to combat a style of meta thats ok in ignoring it and should be pivoting to burn effects and more diverse types of hate effects.
I wouldn't write him off as unable to compete, but his relative lack of success plus being a hard to pilot list that uses lines you won't use in other decks makes it hard to recommend to new players for sure.
Niv is tricky to evaluate, how you win is simple, once you have niv in play your winrate skyrockets, but you are having to play dedicated control the vast majority of the game which isn't something new players are likely to do well with. I'd probably in general point people towards other decks, but if they love Niv and want to play it I wouldn't tell them not to do it.
I dont really like any of these, im fairly new to mtg, ive probably played about 30 1v1 commander games and a bit of modern/standard on arena, my fiance has a magda deck though, but yeah none of these look too fun, alot of cheese. Atleast mono green can be fun with a bunch of t-rexs smashing stuff.
Probably would've gone into bait with most of the other mono-color options that have become outdated. Hard to recommend mono blue in general, any of the staxy elements are tough for new people, feeding dockside harder than any deck ever is punishing for doing what your deck wants to do, next to no good recent results, etc. Urza is one of my favorite cards in all of Magic though, love it somuch. .
Congrats on the 7k.
I was the one who asked if there was an update to the year old video. I was expecting just maybe a list of five or so to look at, but this is way better. Thanks so much. Hopefully everyone else enjoys it a lot as well.
Thank you! Happy to hear it!
If you only play one deck and have been playing Magic for a few years I think a beginner to cedh can handle most decks. I have about 4-5 decks I try to play and sometimes I forget obscure lines, I'd be better if I just played 1
Yeah just sticking to one deck is probably some of the best and simplest advice you can give a new player.
Well said @@LemorasCards
Great list ! I started in cEDH with Kinnan and it was really helpful than I pivoted into Niv-Mizzet to learn good stack interaction, feel like it could be in simple but limited for him. Now I'm on Tasigur, mainly mid-range list, which I feel is kind of great for new cEDH player avec some great color, plus a commander that can be easy to cast with cost reduction built-in and can let you pivot between turbo and midrange list.
First deck was Temur Dargo over a year ago. Just before the name change of the channel. Congrats on 7k
Kinnan art deterred me from playing the deck but I can’t deny the power. I found a Ace Ventura proxy art for Kinnan so now I’m way more interested lol. I took your advise and started making proxy for a cEDH deck.
You're not the first person to mention how ugly Kinnan looks as a reason not to play it lol, can't blame you.
I play Tayam as my first CEDH deck so its funny seeing you put it in the Don't tier (I agree with you). I play Gifts Storm and Amulet in modern so maybe I'm just a masochist.
I play cormela and I completely agree with your evaluation of her. I don't suggest her to anyone but I love the combos with her. Some games I just don't do anything tho. I'm now building marneus as a second cedh deck for more tournament based games and such.
I play Selvala. As someone who is a college student with not too much extra money to spend on cedh, it has done wonderfully in my local meta. I dont plan on going to any large tournaments, so I think it does the trick just fine. Fast, unsuspecting, fun.
Certainly a playable deck that has extra benefits if you're not playing in a proxy friendly store. I'm pretty partial to it because I do enjoy the big mana creature storm stuff a lot.
I personally find Marwyn to be easier to pilot than Selvala
For Magda, think about the count to 15 treasures. You need Magda + an artifact dwarf (5) + a reliable, reusable tapper (vehicle, 5) + clock (5). Or Magda + the reliable, reusable tapper (5), + Maskwood Nexus (5) + Battered Golem (5). Each of those lines requires 3 tutors, or 15 treasures, and gets reduced by your board state.
For "playing cEDH for the first time" intro decks, my vote would be for Godo, Kinnan, Yuriko, and Winota. Their gameplans are simple and strong, and showcase a variety of archetypes.
I wouldn't recommend dedicating to Godo or Winota, but that has nothing to do with them being a beginner.
Im just getting into cedh and this channel has been a bounty! my first deck is Korvold which isnt on this list but seems well known. Cant wait to practice and get better!
It's a tricky one, but it is the most fun deck to play in all of Magic. I'm glad you've found the channel helpful!
Coming from a Krarkashima Pilot who got into cEDH from Krark, I believe that there are too many nuisances for newer magic players to understand. I have a friend who is new to MTG and I fear the idea of playing Krark against them due to the large stack that usually results from the deck. I don't recommend it for newer players, but it's super fun and interesting.
Super helpful as someone trying to get in and researching a deck to proxy to get started. Subbed!
Glad it was helpful!
Ok, i wanna add something about gitfrog. It was my second cedh deck, and to this day my favorite deck in all of mtg so i might be a little biased. Yes its hard to grasp when you're starting and you probably will fail a lot. I spent about 2 weeks reading large textfiles and watching videos about koziland loops, necropotence mechanics, graveyard hate stop, cleanup step sculpts and i have to say this was a journey. If you are willing to dedicate some time in learning it and you like to spam one deck - go for it. Yes, its not that powerful, but man its fun to pilot when you know what ur doing. This is a genius of deckbuilding that is on another level imo
ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD
I know Selvala is basically all but a dead deck, but god damn do I still love playing her. She’s so fun to play, even if I know she’ll get smashed by every top tier deck, piloted well, in the cEDH sphere haha. If I’m being honest, and it’s a hot take, but she’s basically now more of a very high powered EDH deck. I don’t even know if I consider her cEDH anymore, but I’ll always keep that deck together and have a blast playing it. Great video!
Thank you! Yeah she's a lot of fun, but I feel pretty similarly. She can do the thing and get wins, but it's definitely an uphill battle.
I personally recommend Blue farm so that the player can learn the format from the perspective of the meta defining deck. All your control and threat assessing is meant to be built around that. Knowing when to hold em and when to fold em begins and ends with the format defining deck. After that, I recommend jamming something really controlling, like Yuriko. Yuriko teaches you how to play control really well.
After THAT, you play whatever interests you, because you'll have the experience under your belt to make an informed decision.
Especially if I know the player has a strong background in Magic, I'm very willing to hand them TnK. I get a lot of newer people who are inexperienced but still really want to get into the game, and those are usually the ones I point elsewhere at least while they get comfortable with the format.
The one perk of handing someone the best deck is that if they're willing to get in there and play even if they lose at first is that there's no question of the list and sooner or later they'll be winning games.
As someone who started on and plays magda. It's pretty tricky and I run a staxier list. Though I have cut all of the memory jar loops since one ring was printed.
Probably going to find a lot of diverse lists too. One of my win cons is hellkite charger Infinite combat. Which people don't expect because no one does it. Playing one list doesn't mean you can understand all magda decks
Congrats on 7k yall deserve it! Another awesome video from you guys!
Thank you!
Great video! I'm pretty new to cEDH but was wondering where you might put Niv Mizzet? Is he even viable in cEDH? Thanks dude!
Niv is definitely viable and i even have a (slightly outdated) video specifically about Niv. The wincons are simple, the commander is pretty broken if you get it in play, its the control gameplan you have to play up until then that can make it tricky. It's a deck with a few dedicated pilots who have good results though it's not known as a top performer.
Malcolm Tana was my first cedh deck. I would say it's excellent for someone new because it's easy to pick up, resilient, and versatile.
Being in temur offers a lot of interaction and can survive stax decks by having easy access to seedborn muse. What sets it back is that, beyond fetching muse or archaic, tana is useless 80% of the time.
I've since transitioned to piloting Dargo-thrasios because having a wincon that can recover from exile/skip combat/card draw limitation effects is way better than relying on a glint-horn win.
Also, no love for Korvold?
Malcolm/Tana definitely seems like a solid place to start. Korvold would honestly probably go into don't do it. It's a very hard deck to pilot. I love it, but it's not where I would point a new person. Maybe some of the builds that are closer to the Midrange style stuff we've talked about and seen in Japanese events, but turbo korvold manual storm is just a lot.
I have been playing cedh for a couple of years with friends. Started out with Godo and I have to say that it learned me a lot ablut patiently waiting for my chance and applying stax when necessary. It was a list with blood moon/magus and other hate pieces like trinisphere and chalkce of the void. But I get that it can be very linear and not fun to play.
whenever a new comer to cedh comes to the lgs i hand them either my marneus or ob nyx deck if they want to join a cedh pod to get an understanding of the format. they capture the essence of lets do cool things but also can win with little pregame assistance. My friend who only started a month ago his first win was last weekend just borrowing my ob nyx at a cedh table. after loosing with his boros precon for a couple weeks. so hes now converting his boros precon to winota so he has a cedh deck of his own that can sideboard easily to be proxyless at sanctioned events.
That's awesome, glad you're out there helping new player get started!
I'm surprised we didn't see Winota in the list. She's a very popular deck. She's not performing the best right now but I'd put it into "Simple but Limited" tier. Game plan is pretty clear but interaction against an early win is almost non-existent unless you hit a stax piece. I guess if you count it with Heliod it'd be apart of the list, but I believe Winota is a tier above the hard stax decks. Stax with a clock is pretty good imo, even if Winota hasn't been performing as well anymore.
i have a ob nixilis deck i have been working on still missing a couple things but its a really fun deck to play tons of interaction and probably some of the best card advantage you can get.
Great video! I’m sad that Mardu had no representation on this list. That’s what I want to play and am curious where those decks would be on this list.
Thank you! Theres some decks that could be in the low to mid tiers, Tymna/Jeska or Dargo in the right hands can do well any given weekend.
As a magda pilot I'd put her in "not ideal" but she is still very much potentially worth investing the time into learning even as a newer player.
Mainly because some of the main lists aren't on enough interaction (imo) to really have a chance to dig yourself out of some board states against decks that do have some counters to what you're doing (God damn cursed totem). At the very least she requires specific pieces to be in the decklist to circumvent problematic cards such as Blind Obedience/Dauntless Dismantler to allow you to still get to the "i make infinite treasures" stage which not every list are on. Knowing what to tutor for and when in regards to board states like this requires a lot of reps and comfort using some stax pieces that builds one would even be consider "turbo" versions of her are running.
There are certainly many ways to build her to where you are threatening a win off of a single search however when you're learning CEDH being able to politic your way out of constant removal (similar to the problem winota has come up against after taking off as a deck) because of this is paramount and requires a lot of understanding of not just your own deck but the format itself along with the decks others are playing (at least meta decks) to potentially allow her to stick.
She is a great commander and has answers/silver bullets in most pods but can take quite a bit of piloting to understand some of the non-combo based nuance to the deck like you said.
She can still be a good commander if people want to put the work into it and because she isn't a "solved" deck once people get their feet wet they can decide to play her in a multitude of ways that are all valid with some variance in approach which not many decks can say.
If you are a newer player and still want to play magda please head over the magda CEDH discord! We'd love to have you :)
Magda Discord: discord.gg/4z7FdGNgcR
I appreciate the super detailed response. I'm happy that at least one knowledgeable person agrees with where I'd put her, haha.
Magda can the excellent for it being straight forward, the trick is what to do with 5 treasures and no artifact dwarf on board and everyone targets Magda making 10 treasures out of reach (insta-win). That one tutor choice can be painfully difficult for new players. Magda still my favorite build, when the wincon hits, it’s unstoppable
Tivit was my first cEDH commander, I’ve since built kinnan and ob nix for something different lol. I’m really interested in trying out sissay and atraxa
@LemorasCards video idea for newbie cEDH players. How to defend against the top decks out there. For example, what do you do to slow down or stop a sisay deck, topics like what are you watching out for in your pod when you see certain commanders…
As a new-ish player, I'm constantly having to ask how a certain deck is going to win. I've got a good number of them down, but then someone runs something totally out there and I have to dig into their lines to figure out what's going to happen.
Great video! I’m brand new to Cedh and was wondering if you think slicer is a good beginner commander?
Thank you! I think it's a good simple deck to pickup, the main thing going against it would be that it doesn't really play similar to other decks in the format so it's not great at teaching you some of the common play patterns beyond just seeing other people do them in game.
So if it's a type of deck you want to play, go for it, but it's not gonna be the best at teaching you some parts of the format. Also be mindful that some of the stax pieces will have some complexity with them based on the pod you're in.
I primarily play a dragon storm variant of Rowan. Where would you put Rowan on here? Personally, I would put it in not ideal
Sounds about right to me. It's a fun deck, has some results, can get you there if you're determined to play it.
@@LemorasCards it really requires you to know the cards in the deck
I recently got into CEDH and I picked K'rrik not because I absolutely love him it's because I had the actual card and said well I own it I'll build it and so I watched videos on how it played its combos and win cons and it's been pretty fun no hate it is a hard deck to play but fun as well
auto like/follow for having timestamps
Thanks a lot for this video, is very helpful.
What do you think about Pako and Haldan? Could it be a good option to play on a budget? (you are playing your opponents expensive cards).
Thank you :)
I need to look at the lists more, but from what I know of the list, it could be a pretty good option.
It may be tricky. But can u make a tier list in the same fashion that is just 1 level up from this.
"The CZ you should try when you are ready to level up your Piloting"
Be it that the have Consulted win lines. Or they are pseudo fringe or under represented. Or the require good knowledge of the meta game to play thru it.
These decks are likely tier A and tier B but there are some that come to mind Like Heliod//Eclipse or Narset that just require the tiny bit more of skill to really make the list hum. But it rewards the pilots growth as you play them
in my opinion, most commander options that touch "green" will typically reward you for using their one mana "mana dorks" and they're alot cheaper than getting the "super mana rocks" especially when you build toward FOOD CHAIN. And your only other "high dollar" cards you'd have to acquire would be Allosaurus Shepherd, something halfling, Boreal Druid, Destiniy Spinner, and if your touching red Vexxing Shusher.
Once your doing any color combination that doesn't touch green the $$$ goes up, especially if you touch blue.
I broke into cedh with Temur Pirates, and it is still my favorite. Hopefully someday we get a better gruul partner.
I'm still holding out hope for something better than Silas to put with Rograkh.
Looks cool to me. I may have missed it but was there a mono blue commander that be good for beginner cedh players?
Unctus has actually probably been the best performing mono-blue deck recently, but I don't know enough about the list to know how beginner friendly it is. That's probably where I'd point people though over decks like Urza which have really struggled.
I like your reasoning. Well done!
Korvold is my first cEDH deck. Where would you rank it as far as beginner friendly according to your list?
It is a pretty powerful deck, arguably one of the better proactive ones in the format for me, but it's also a true manual storm deck and has a lot of moving pieces so it's hard to recommend for new players.
It was my first one as well!
@LemorasCards I like the difficulty of not having blue and needing to find where I can have a chance to play. I'm not exactly new to the game of EDH though. I've been playing for over 10 years and the deck started off as a competitive Prossh Food Chain list before cEDH really developed into what it is today.
I've been piloting Ao for two years, and I can say the deck is really hard to pilot. Really takes a devoted person to pilot it well
How would you rate Narset, Enlightened Master? Is it still a powerful deck in cEDH?
I started with selvala. Still play it, but it pains me to agree with you. So often I find myself with infinite mana but no outlet and that feels bad when opponents draw cards because someone down the block sneezed.
Yeah its rough right now, decks are so clean and optimized that having extra hoops to jump through really hurts.
Cradle Control/Fiend Artisan Elves is the Legacy counterpart to Tayam in my opinion
I'm wondering about something. Not about the video, more of a general question. I notice Selvala showing up on a bunch of lists for better or worse and no Yisan. I've built and played both decks and Selvala can be a bit more explosive than Yisan but in my experience it's much less consistent for a little more explosiveness. I think Yisan is the stand alone best mono green commander and I don't think it's that close. That being said it's very complicated.
no urza? is he even viable at all anymore? or just many better options?
I think I've covered 1 or 2 of them getting top 16, for the most part it's just tough out there for mono blue in general, the staxy part of the deck kinda struggles to be relevant right now, and it's probably the biggest Dockside feeder and also can't run dockside. Also has relatively clunky wincons
Dargo Thras is very tricky. I love it, I play it, but I would not hand to a beginner.
Ok, I'm very upset with this list....you didn't include my boy Gaddock Teeg! 😂 He's my hero! ❤❤❤
I can't let people know about the secret best deck in the format
@@LemorasCards Hahaha ok that's acceptable!
I play a high power aesi list (with no crypt chrome mox or mox diamond) and I still win at cEDH tables
Agree on a lot of what you said about Kenrith, but I think it's "hard to BUILD for newer players". If they just netdeck I think it's fine for new-ish players. Better than T&K.
It's just filled with A+Bs and tutors in a way that lets you make very simple heuristics for mulligans
Where would you say Jeskai decks go? Like Jeska/Ishai or Elsha of the Infinite?
Depending on what you want out of them, I might point someone somewhere else, but I think they provide a good balance of being approachable, powerful, and giving you experience with format staples.
Maybe simple but limited, though the more dedicated to fast Underworld Breach wins the deck is probably the trickier it could be.
Which ob nix list were you referring to when you said “more turbo, with fewer bad cards”?
The decks that are on Ad Nauseam and fewer Ob specific cards, something like WoundedSatellite's list.
Thank you!
What do you think of dawnwaker thrasios? Especially the new iteration with sphinx and hullbreaker?
Has some of the same issues as the temur decks where it can require tricky tutor chains, but seems like a strong enough deck it can be worth either working up to as a new player or if you're determined to play it just stick it out while you're learning.
So somewhere in not ideal, could move up to strong but tricky if the deck keeps doing well.
@@LemorasCards what do you think of the new turbo ring derevi?
@ysendy7027 that could be a cool place to start, at the very list it has a very straight forward gameplan and seems like a ton of fun.
Dargo math is weird. He's insanely cracked, sure, but still a big step up to wrap your head around. I'm glad to see tayam in bait, deck is strong but it's rube Goldberg.dec
I will say I think tournament results probably aren't a great way to gauge suitability for a newbie. At some point, reps and talent as a pilot will give any competent pilot a leg up, and a lot of conversion rates rely on which grinders are off their known builds, like waffle switching to blue farm from darg thras.
Any room for Slicer ? :D
What are your thoughts on a tevesh and thrasios deck?
Probably depends on the build, but some of what I said about Tevesh/Kraum can apply there as well. Seems like a fine place to start, just know that sultai in the meta has been a bit shaky.
the only disagree i have is tivit. Depending on the new players skill level and understanding of the stack and various decks and wincons, control can be way too complex to start out with, id go for that as a second or third deck after they have learned the meta and what cards are threats and what cards arent
Where would put the master transendent ?
Hard to say since it's brand new! Looks strong and it's in good colors, if it seems interesting to you give it a try.
@@LemorasCards Ik of few already top 16 an even top 4 include myself with it . Curious on where you would have put it. I have spicy list if want ever see it for fun
What’s your thoughts on jeska tymna?
Depends a bit on the build. It can be a very big brain deck that requires a lot of pivoting, though it's nice it has two commanders that can be great in different scenarios. It wouldn't be the first deck I recommend, but if someone really wanted to play Mardu then there's probably a variant of it that'll suit them well if they're willing to put the reps in.
JT might be one of the most complicated decks I ever played in cedh, i never felt confident enough to enter a tourney with it. would not recomend to a beginner. way to many pivots just know ing a good opening hand is practce. where as ob nyx pretty much hand holds you thru the combos.
Do you have a Deck List for Tevesh/Kraum that you would recommend for a beginner?
So here's a list of recent Tevesh/Kraum decks to look through: edhtop16.com/commander/Kraum,%20Ludevic's%20Opus%20+%20Tevesh%20Szat,%20Doom%20of%20Fools?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1699592400
Here's the version I'd probably recommend for a faster version of the deck: www.moxfield.com/decks/EyYVpvKJ1k2qwNWcVoewoQ
and here's a build that's a bit more on the midrange side: www.moxfield.com/decks/IrRC8le700ScQMfb2K-VQA
@@LemorasCards thanks so much for the quick reply! Excited to start my first cedh deck
@@LemorasCards Another question if you don't mind. Are there any game play or deck tech videos that you can recommend that would help me learn the deck and some lines to follow ? I'm having a hard time finding some that aren't super old
My first cedh deck was gitrog
I need a new wave of mardu
New mardu commanders in thunder junction, fingers crossed
I would put Sisay on don't do it, and put Godo to Simple but limited.. Remember the purpose: It should be newbie friendly.. Well just my two cents..
Very reasonable swaps for sure.
@@LemorasCards ahehehe i've been piloting some of the decks like Kinnan, Najeela, Sisay, Bloodpods, Polymorphs, Madfarm, and etc for a while, and I really gotta say Sisay will be a torture to the brain for any beginner and even experienced players.. but yeah, on the other hand Kinnan is just straight up brain dead gaming.. very flexible and easy to understand strats..
I sometimes recommend Godo though I always warn them of the downsides because once you screw with Godo it is over..
Where would you place Kodama and Sakishima
I dont see Rog Thras polymorph anymore. Where does that fall on your list?
I'm not really sure, it's had some good results so seems playable, though I usually recommend non poly rog/thras builds right now since I think they're pretty broken. Seems like a fine place to start for me.
As a long time Tayam player, just count to three
Yuriko FTW!!!
Where would you put winota?
Gitrog is much fun!!!!
However it seems that it is in a bad shape for now.
As a hardcore krrik fan….yea, it’s terrible for noobs. Tevesh + X is probably best for noobs.
Where would you put sliver food chain?
Probably into not ideal. It hasn't had a lot of success or popularity recently, and 5c is inherently a little tricky. I'd probably point people towards atraxa or even Etali over since the commanders do more on their own. Rocco is another option but that deck is obviously very tutor heavy. Ukkima/Cazur is another option that doesn't have a ton of recent results but in theory seems like a solid start for food chain players.
Trying REAAAAL hard to not be offended as a dedicated Winota main or seeing it on the slides
Yeah, I should've covered that. It's easy to pickup and play, but man is that deck looking dead right now and it will get you targeted ridiculously hard.
I think that deck has led to a lot of frustrating and lopsided games where newer people picked it up and crushed their friends but then once you're against people who threat assess it properly it can feel miserable and like there's nothing you can do.
Piloting that deck successfully right now, if it's going to be done, probably requires a lot of skill/experience.
@@LemorasCardsI agree that it suffers from the lack of variance in play patterns much like Yuriko does but doesn't have the freedom to just play out an Oracle Consult for a win and many many newer players picked it up and helped to conteibute to it suffering from being immediately targeted in pods for removal because of how absolutely dead simple it's play patterns are right now. Moving forward the deck should be looking to lean into more a+b combos like Breath of Fury+Aura Touched Mage and OFF of thorn effects and into burn and damage dealing that work alone outside of with Winota on board. Why the main list isn't on Scytheclaw Raptor is beyond me, but that's just my opinion as someone who's been playing it since 21/2.
Tldr: Main list online is hyper optimized to combat a style of meta thats ok in ignoring it and should be pivoting to burn effects and more diverse types of hate effects.
Also, good content too :)
Thank you!
Hate seeing K'rrik in bait... but its feeling like his viability is fading 😢
I wouldn't write him off as unable to compete, but his relative lack of success plus being a hard to pilot list that uses lines you won't use in other decks makes it hard to recommend to new players for sure.
Where’s Thrasios Vialsmasher?
Depends on the build a bit but probably somewhere in the middle.
Where da Slicer at?
Im surprised Selvala is there I love playing that deck
Gitrog is the best beginner friendly list for cEDH. Ask me how I know.
were is winota?
Why no talrand?
Talrand doesn't have much of a history in competitive Commander that I know of at least, but a popular casual option for sure.
Where my boy Niv Mizzet at?
Niv is tricky to evaluate, how you win is simple, once you have niv in play your winrate skyrockets, but you are having to play dedicated control the vast majority of the game which isn't something new players are likely to do well with.
I'd probably in general point people towards other decks, but if they love Niv and want to play it I wouldn't tell them not to do it.
I dont really like any of these, im fairly new to mtg, ive probably played about 30 1v1 commander games and a bit of modern/standard on arena, my fiance has a magda deck though, but yeah none of these look too fun, alot of cheese. Atleast mono green can be fun with a bunch of t-rexs smashing stuff.
Just skipped over my boi Forg. ;-;
Any1 got list on ob nix
This list and ones like it have been the ones with the most success from what I can tell: www.moxfield.com/decks/hTtslZM6CESViXgoQ6YAVw
NO URZA RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Probably would've gone into bait with most of the other mono-color options that have become outdated. Hard to recommend mono blue in general, any of the staxy elements are tough for new people, feeding dockside harder than any deck ever is punishing for doing what your deck wants to do, next to no good recent results, etc.
Urza is one of my favorite cards in all of Magic though, love it somuch. .
⏸Rowan not mentioned⏸ dragonless 📉