I think these are some of the things that hurt hollow knight. 1. the map system. Having to find the guy to buy the map in each biome is tedious And as far as I remember, you can't fill out the map and what's you've discovered, if you haven't bought the map. Most others will at least map the path as you go. 2. the amount to explore is overwhelming. You can get to the end of the game with so few upgrades. I didn't have a single spell upgrade, I think the only reason I had all the base spells was because they were mandatory, and I thought I was doing a good job exploring. Even then it was only with the help of wiki's that I found the badges I wanted to use for endgame. 3. Combat and boss fights, and I feel this is the biggest hurdle. The boss fights I just didn't really find fun or unique. There are so many memorable fights from other metroidvania games that are truly one of a kind. Quadraxis is the main reason I love Metroid Prime 2 echoes (in spite of it also having the boost ball and spider ball guardians.) and it remains on of my favorite boss fights ever. Fights where you have to go through multiple phases of attacking different weakspots or you switch from one weapon to another. Most of hollow knights fights just felt like 'dodge and hit'. Also I would have liked to have seen boss health bars, but that's more on personal taste. 4. The aesthetic. I know this seems trivial but here me out. A lot of people don't like bugs. So asking them to enjoy a game all about a world of bugs is a pretty big ask. You can apply the same thing to blasphemous or dark souls etc. On most games I feel there's a middle ground somewhere. DS has no shortage of 'waifus' or 'husbandos' sprikled in, plus you can make your characters into whatever favorite anime/game/whatever character you want. I got a pretty close looking ayane from DOA when I did Nioh 2. In metroid you have samus even if she's usually suited up most the time. You also have the friendly aliens from time to time that look fluffy and give 'comfy' vibes. Castlevania always has attractive main protagonists and NPCs. outside of that you have Ori, Lily, Dust, Shantae, etc. Hollow Knight goes for a combination of 'so ugly it's cute' as well as being so cartoonish it's well outside of the uncanny valley territory. And to a degree it succeeds. But I still know some people that won't touch it for that bug aesthetic. 5. Depressing story/lack of clarity. I know this isn't exclusive to Hollow Knight, as many others are in a similar position, but from start to finish you're basically told you're exploring a forgotten world that sucks. The mayor tells you there's nothing left down there and adventurers just disappear. They leaned in heavily into the souls style of storytelling. Personally I enjoy a metroidvania where I feel like I'm saving the world or something. We are NEVER given a clear purpose besides exploring. For what? Based on the different endings, the end goal changes. Do you replace the hollow knight as the next vessel to contain the corruption? Do you try to stop the corruption for good? The MC's motivation is never really explored. I know metroidvania's aren't super heavy on storytelling and while the Guru likes more of that opaque story telling, I'd like a little more clarity on WHY it seemed like a good idea to go to this god forsaken land. Overall I think point 3 is the biggest problem with the game with point 2 being a fair reason as well, the other three are more nitpicky and personal taste.
This is a fair take but I disagree with the boss fights, I think the fight with the mantis was one of the most memorable boss fights I've ever had and having "too much" to explore is a weird statement to me, that's one of the reasons I play MVs, it's to explore.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I personally don’t like its art style. What makes all your points interesting is that these are reasons WHY someone would like that game 😆 I would add that HK’s biggest “issue” is starting it. It’s incredibly unwelcoming for new players. But, again, some people like that 😆
The game for me had a lot of issues that started out small but grew more frustrating to me over time. In particular it takes a long time to get between important places and any attempt to make it faster with the shinespark will usually make you go slower unless it's one of the few specific parts they made it pretty to fly through. There was a part where I thought I could zip across three rooms but the shinespark activated a lengthy elevator that I had to sit through and it made me livid. Also getting hit by an environmental hazard that fades you to black and resets your position is a war crime, especially if you get hit by an enemy into a hazard. Just make getting hit by both work the same way. And the lack of levity in the world doesn't help, it makes me care about things less and makes me feel like I'm wasting my time as I progress through the game.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my Zelda question (and for only half-butchering my name ;)). It sounds like I have much more of a fondness for puzzles and dungeons than you do, or maybe you had it (hence your love for A Link to the Past etc. back in the day), but your tastes have shifted. Looking forward to your next AMA so I can submit another question and you can take another shot at my name if you'd like. ;)
D’oh! I knew I’d get your name wrong 💀 Yeah, I enjoyed puzzles and dungeons much more when I was younger. I’ve just seen it all at this point in my old age 😆
@@MetroidvaniaGuru Naw, for me, cleverly designed puzzles / dungeons never get old, and I think we are about the same age, just saying.😅 Especially since Nintendo doesn‘t make those classic Zelda games in the same way anymore, I find myself craving them more and more. First world problems I guess.
I really loved Death's Gambit and Blasphemous, but Ender Lilies I have not enjoyed. The feel of the play control just feels like generic Unity engine game xxxx. I also don't like the almost exclusively piano soundtrack. I didn't mind it at first, but I found it grating over time. I hope your experience is better!
Using the occasion to share that Frontier Hunter: Erza's Wheel of Fortune releases next week! I've been patiently waiting for the full release to play it.
There has got to be an alterntaive term to describe Soulslike Metroidvanias because there are several "SoulsVanias" that are not MetroidVanias (i.e. Void Memory or Tarnishing Of Juxtia which may pop up on the tierlist roullette anyway). Any ideas?
It’s now considered a slur (used to be as well but not commonly known) the correct term for them is the Romani or Roma. They are recognized ethnicity. Sort of like we used to say €skimo but they are the Inuit people as the other word was given by white people that just means snowshoe.
Played thru half of Bo: Path of the teal lotus today, unfortunately it's a bit disappointing. For some reason the developers decided that in order to double jump you need to hit an enemy/item instead of having a permanent upgrade like most metroidvanias, it really gets frustrating and it makes exploration a hassle, other than that it's a good but short game, absolutely gorgeous as well.
This makes me feel like I should refund it, I'm having a similar issue with Nine Sols where I'm not enjoying due to the game heavily relying on parrying even with regular mobs.Which is funny cause these games look similar and were both the MVs I was looking forward to the most.
@@edisito9 Despite not jiving with the parry-heavy side of the combat, what's some stuff about Nine Sols that did initially, and still does, have your attention? I found myself a lot more interested in the story than I initially thought i'd be. If you've heard of Cookie Cutter-- that one's got a load of combat options. A big amount of people seem to complain about the parry, but it's nigh completely optional to engage with. My personal favourite weapon in that game was the Strattoblaster (electric guitar).
@@jurtheorc8117 I bought cookie cutter in the steam sale but I haven't played it yet, I'm a visual person so the look and feel of Nine Sols is keeping me playing even though I switched it to story mode to void the frustration.
@@edisito9 I see! Fair about switching to Story mode to see what's around the proverbial corner. I'm a big Cookie Cutter fan, so I hope you'll have a lot of fun and interest with what the Megastructure may have to offer! Both now and in big future updates the lead dev is working on.
@@MetroidvaniaGuruid love to see a video on the series or on the tier lists. They are pretty niche but share a lot of the things I love about games like astalon (difficulty, exploration, diverse environments)
Can a 3d game be considered Metroidvania? My friend constantly calls Tunic a metroidvania and I get it but I don't think it's correct but It did make me curious as to are there any 3d metroidvanias (no not 2d gameplay with 3d sprites)
There's no such thing as a "Metroidvania." Let's go over the reasons why: 1. The word "Metroidvania" combines "Metroid" and "Castlevania" as if they are the same thing, or are similar enough to lump together. They are not. They have nothing more than cursory similarities. 2. Metroid is solely responsible for this style of game design. Castlevania did not even _start_ adopting Adventure design elements until several games and roughly a decade into the series, and after there were already 3 Metroid games made in this style. 3. None of the games referred to as "Metroidvania" exhibit the traits that define Metroid's design beyond the most superficial and unimportant elements. 4. "Metroidvania" is useless as a genre classification because it doesn't tell you anything about mechanics or the moment-to-moment gameplay experience. Games referred to as "Metroidvania" can, and very often do differ from each other significantly in these ways, meaning you can't accurately describe them and their differences with the term "Metroidvania." The _actual_ genre of these games is Platform Action-Adventure, which tells you everything about the gameplay you're going to be experiencing: Platform: Jumping is a primary gameplay function Action: The primary gameplay functions are concrete Adventure: The non-linear game world progressively opens up as you go through the game. There is no such thing as a "Metroidvania." There is Metroid, and there is everything else.
Thanks for the well written response. I’ve heard these arguments a million times. Normally, I ignore them, but you laid it all out so well it’d be disrespectful not to rebut. “There’s no such thing as Metroidvania.” Make sure to let the hundreds of developers and publishers who use the term know this as well. “Metroid is solely responsible for this style of game design.” Incorrect. There were other games prior to Metroid that used nonlinear open-world design and permanent character progression. Check out “Below The Root” and “Brain Breaker.” “None of the games referred to as ‘Metroidvania’ exhibit the traits that define Metroid's design beyond the most superficial and unimportant elements.” This is subjective and, in my opinion, incorrect. “Outbuddies” is very much a “Metroidvania” that’s essentially a Metroid homage. Does that then make it a true Metroidvania, ripping off Metroid wholesale? "’Metroidvania’ is useless as a genre classification because it doesn't tell you anything about mechanics or the moment-to-moment gameplay experience.” God forbid a hobby has jargon. Most gamers hear Metroidvania and understand. And if they don’t, they’ll figure it out. I’ve no issue with a hobby’s nomenclature being hyper-specific. Most people don’t mind, regardless of the hobby. “The actual genre of these games is Platform Action-Adventure.” Hardly anyone uses that term. The closest any term has gotten to replacing “Metroidvania” is the term “Search-Action.” And you don’t see that nearly as often as Metroidvania. “There is no such thing as a "’Metroidvania.’" Again, hundreds of developers and publishers who use the term beg to differ, as well as hundreds of thousands of Metroidvania enthusiasts. “There is Metroid, and there is everything else.” Again, other games used the “Metroid” design before Metroid, so this statement is factually and historically incorrect. Also note that the “-vania” part of Metroidvania refers to the light RPG aspects of the genre that Metroid lacks, such as leveling, character builds, etc. “Castlevania: Symphony of the Night” brought these elements to the “Metroid Design,” thus the significance of the “-vania” suffix (though, Wonder Boy 3: The Dragon’s Trap added the light RPG elements way before SOTN, but that’s a tale for another time). Feel free to call the genre whatever you like. I’ll be sticking with Metroidvania simply for its cultural significance.
-The word "metroidvania" came about because according to one reviewer, SOTN had similar progression to Metroid and stuck because people made games that had elements of both series and put them together. -The MSX port of Castlevania is about as metroidvania as it gets and if that doesn't count for some reason Castlevania II should, and SOTN, a game that the vast majority of people would consider a metroidvania, apes CV2's progression in the latter half of the game. -Most game genres were named for marketing purposes and tap into superficial qualities to make it easier to tell to people. Before FPSes they were called Doom Clones because they were all superficially like Doom. Beat 'em ups and shoot 'em ups were named because you beat up and shoot things. Roguelikes are like rogue. Maybe this genre should be called Metroidlike. -Metroidvania is used as an umbrella term for games that are superficially like Metroid and Castlevania combined. They are pulled together for their surface similarities, but in further discussion they will be narrowed down further. You can say Rabi-Ribi is a metroidvania, but when asked for more info you would elaborate further by saying it's a metroidvania with bullet hell elements. -Platform Action-Adventure is an extremely vague descriptor, especially with your definition. A couple weeks ago I beat a game with a concrete jump and attack button that you can explore freely with many branching paths called Shin Megami Tensei V. After that I beat another action game with platforming and adventure in a world that slowly opens up as you explore, Ninja Gaiden Sigma. tl;dr The idea of the term "metroidvania" is that just by saying the word, you already have visions of metroid or castlevania-like gameplay, it's a one word shortcut for marketing. I think it's one of the dumber genre names this side of "character action game" but for the most part it's the only game in town, and we've all gotta play it.
@@MAYOFORCE This line of thinking is exactly why video games are in such an egregiously poor state right now. Do you know that the average video gme released today is _quantifiably_ less than half as deep as Super Mario Bros on NES? And do you know why SMB's superior design hasn't become the standard? Because of poor games discourse and communication, driven by a vague, poorly-defined set of terms and concepts that prevents anyone from being able to say anything meaningful about game design. Essentially, SMB hasn't become the standard because nobody knows how to talk about why it is so exceptionally good. We have words for a reason, and we have multiple different words for a reason. Words mean specific things so that we can communicate specifically and with clarity.
Do you have any other place I could contact you like a social media page? I made a game that might interest you, but I would like to contact you via DM for more information. I made a similar comment elsewhere not realizing the video it was about is already out, and I won't bother you with this question any longer.
I think these are some of the things that hurt hollow knight.
1. the map system. Having to find the guy to buy the map in each biome is tedious And as far as I remember, you can't fill out the map and what's you've discovered, if you haven't bought the map. Most others will at least map the path as you go.
2. the amount to explore is overwhelming. You can get to the end of the game with so few upgrades. I didn't have a single spell upgrade, I think the only reason I had all the base spells was because they were mandatory, and I thought I was doing a good job exploring. Even then it was only with the help of wiki's that I found the badges I wanted to use for endgame.
3. Combat and boss fights, and I feel this is the biggest hurdle. The boss fights I just didn't really find fun or unique. There are so many memorable fights from other metroidvania games that are truly one of a kind. Quadraxis is the main reason I love Metroid Prime 2 echoes (in spite of it also having the boost ball and spider ball guardians.) and it remains on of my favorite boss fights ever. Fights where you have to go through multiple phases of attacking different weakspots or you switch from one weapon to another. Most of hollow knights fights just felt like 'dodge and hit'. Also I would have liked to have seen boss health bars, but that's more on personal taste.
4. The aesthetic. I know this seems trivial but here me out. A lot of people don't like bugs. So asking them to enjoy a game all about a world of bugs is a pretty big ask. You can apply the same thing to blasphemous or dark souls etc. On most games I feel there's a middle ground somewhere. DS has no shortage of 'waifus' or 'husbandos' sprikled in, plus you can make your characters into whatever favorite anime/game/whatever character you want. I got a pretty close looking ayane from DOA when I did Nioh 2. In metroid you have samus even if she's usually suited up most the time. You also have the friendly aliens from time to time that look fluffy and give 'comfy' vibes. Castlevania always has attractive main protagonists and NPCs. outside of that you have Ori, Lily, Dust, Shantae, etc.
Hollow Knight goes for a combination of 'so ugly it's cute' as well as being so cartoonish it's well outside of the uncanny valley territory. And to a degree it succeeds. But I still know some people that won't touch it for that bug aesthetic.
5. Depressing story/lack of clarity. I know this isn't exclusive to Hollow Knight, as many others are in a similar position, but from start to finish you're basically told you're exploring a forgotten world that sucks. The mayor tells you there's nothing left down there and adventurers just disappear. They leaned in heavily into the souls style of storytelling. Personally I enjoy a metroidvania where I feel like I'm saving the world or something. We are NEVER given a clear purpose besides exploring. For what? Based on the different endings, the end goal changes. Do you replace the hollow knight as the next vessel to contain the corruption? Do you try to stop the corruption for good? The MC's motivation is never really explored. I know metroidvania's aren't super heavy on storytelling and while the Guru likes more of that opaque story telling, I'd like a little more clarity on WHY it seemed like a good idea to go to this god forsaken land.
Overall I think point 3 is the biggest problem with the game with point 2 being a fair reason as well, the other three are more nitpicky and personal taste.
This is a fair take but I disagree with the boss fights, I think the fight with the mantis was one of the most memorable boss fights I've ever had and having "too much" to explore is a weird statement to me, that's one of the reasons I play MVs, it's to explore.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I personally don’t like its art style. What makes all your points interesting is that these are reasons WHY someone would like that game 😆
I would add that HK’s biggest “issue” is starting it. It’s incredibly unwelcoming for new players. But, again, some people like that 😆
The game for me had a lot of issues that started out small but grew more frustrating to me over time. In particular it takes a long time to get between important places and any attempt to make it faster with the shinespark will usually make you go slower unless it's one of the few specific parts they made it pretty to fly through. There was a part where I thought I could zip across three rooms but the shinespark activated a lengthy elevator that I had to sit through and it made me livid. Also getting hit by an environmental hazard that fades you to black and resets your position is a war crime, especially if you get hit by an enemy into a hazard. Just make getting hit by both work the same way. And the lack of levity in the world doesn't help, it makes me care about things less and makes me feel like I'm wasting my time as I progress through the game.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my Zelda question (and for only half-butchering my name ;)). It sounds like I have much more of a fondness for puzzles and dungeons than you do, or maybe you had it (hence your love for A Link to the Past etc. back in the day), but your tastes have shifted. Looking forward to your next AMA so I can submit another question and you can take another shot at my name if you'd like. ;)
D’oh! I knew I’d get your name wrong 💀
Yeah, I enjoyed puzzles and dungeons much more when I was younger. I’ve just seen it all at this point in my old age 😆
@@MetroidvaniaGuru Naw, for me, cleverly designed puzzles / dungeons never get old, and I think we are about the same age, just saying.😅
Especially since Nintendo doesn‘t make those classic Zelda games in the same way anymore, I find myself craving them more and more. First world problems I guess.
Still need to buy ender lilies smh but I love blasphemous and death gambit soooo much.
I really loved Death's Gambit and Blasphemous, but Ender Lilies I have not enjoyed. The feel of the play control just feels like generic Unity engine game xxxx. I also don't like the almost exclusively piano soundtrack. I didn't mind it at first, but I found it grating over time. I hope your experience is better!
Using the occasion to share that Frontier Hunter: Erza's Wheel of Fortune releases next week! I've been patiently waiting for the full release to play it.
You and me both!
A soulvania that has matrix like elements I'm in...
Goofy movie forever. Sharing it with a kid is amazing. Powerline forever!!
There has got to be an alterntaive term to describe Soulslike Metroidvanias because there are several "SoulsVanias" that are not MetroidVanias (i.e. Void Memory or Tarnishing Of Juxtia which may pop up on the tierlist roullette anyway). Any ideas?
I just call games like Juxtia and Dark Devotion Soul-Likes simply because they aren’t MVs 🤷♂️
One of the sequels I'm excited for is grime 2 it was announced like 2 months ago no release date tho.
It’s now considered a slur (used to be as well but not commonly known) the correct term for them is the Romani or Roma. They are recognized ethnicity. Sort of like we used to say €skimo but they are the Inuit people as the other word was given by white people that just means snowshoe.
Played thru half of Bo: Path of the teal lotus today, unfortunately it's a bit disappointing. For some reason the developers decided that in order to double jump you need to hit an enemy/item instead of having a permanent upgrade like most metroidvanias, it really gets frustrating and it makes exploration a hassle, other than that it's a good but short game, absolutely gorgeous as well.
This makes me feel like I should refund it, I'm having a similar issue with Nine Sols where I'm not enjoying due to the game heavily relying on parrying even with regular mobs.Which is funny cause these games look similar and were both the MVs I was looking forward to the most.
@@edisito9 Despite not jiving with the parry-heavy side of the combat, what's some stuff about Nine Sols that did initially, and still does, have your attention? I found myself a lot more interested in the story than I initially thought i'd be.
If you've heard of Cookie Cutter-- that one's got a load of combat options. A big amount of people seem to complain about the parry, but it's nigh completely optional to engage with.
My personal favourite weapon in that game was the Strattoblaster (electric guitar).
@@jurtheorc8117 I bought cookie cutter in the steam sale but I haven't played it yet, I'm a visual person so the look and feel of Nine Sols is keeping me playing even though I switched it to story mode to void the frustration.
I just finished Bo. I liked it but was burned out by the end. It was like a 12-hour game.
@@edisito9 I see! Fair about switching to Story mode to see what's around the proverbial corner.
I'm a big Cookie Cutter fan, so I hope you'll have a lot of fun and interest with what the Megastructure may have to offer! Both now and in big future updates the lead dev is working on.
So....When's Silksong out?
D’oh!
Whats your take on the la mulana games?
I’ve only played the first. I liked it a lot but eventually got stuck and used a guide. It’s a game to be respected, that’s for sure.
@@MetroidvaniaGuruid love to see a video on the series or on the tier lists. They are pretty niche but share a lot of the things I love about games like astalon (difficulty, exploration, diverse environments)
Can a 3d game be considered Metroidvania? My friend constantly calls Tunic a metroidvania and I get it but I don't think it's correct but It did make me curious as to are there any 3d metroidvanias (no not 2d gameplay with 3d sprites)
Also you should try Rusted Moss
Yes, an MV can be 3D, Pseudoregalia is an excellent example.
Tunic isn’t an MV, but people do refer to it as a MetroidBrainia.
Rusted Moss is outstanding.
When are you going to review doomblade
Soon…
I hated underwater games till dave the diver and I hated it the first hr or so but then I played like 30 hrs it was fun.
I hear that game’s pretty addictive.
Best Metroid vania game soundtrack? Anyone?
La-Mulana
@@douglaslemus1726 Ender lilies or Axiom Verge in my opinion
Ender Lilies comes to mind, but any Igavania with “Bloody Tears” gets my vote, too 😆
The GameBoy Zeldas actually are metroidvanias as they do have consistent platforming in all portions of the game
There's no such thing as a "Metroidvania." Let's go over the reasons why:
1. The word "Metroidvania" combines "Metroid" and "Castlevania" as if they are the same thing, or are similar enough to lump together. They are not. They have nothing more than cursory similarities.
2. Metroid is solely responsible for this style of game design. Castlevania did not even _start_ adopting Adventure design elements until several games and roughly a decade into the series, and after there were already 3 Metroid games made in this style.
3. None of the games referred to as "Metroidvania" exhibit the traits that define Metroid's design beyond the most superficial and unimportant elements.
4. "Metroidvania" is useless as a genre classification because it doesn't tell you anything about mechanics or the moment-to-moment gameplay experience. Games referred to as "Metroidvania" can, and very often do differ from each other significantly in these ways, meaning you can't accurately describe them and their differences with the term "Metroidvania."
The _actual_ genre of these games is Platform Action-Adventure, which tells you everything about the gameplay you're going to be experiencing:
Platform: Jumping is a primary gameplay function
Action: The primary gameplay functions are concrete
Adventure: The non-linear game world progressively opens up as you go through the game.
There is no such thing as a "Metroidvania." There is Metroid, and there is everything else.
Thanks for the well written response. I’ve heard these arguments a million times. Normally, I ignore them, but you laid it all out so well it’d be disrespectful not to rebut.
“There’s no such thing as Metroidvania.”
Make sure to let the hundreds of developers and publishers who use the term know this as well.
“Metroid is solely responsible for this style of game design.”
Incorrect. There were other games prior to Metroid that used nonlinear open-world design and permanent character progression. Check out “Below The Root” and “Brain Breaker.”
“None of the games referred to as
‘Metroidvania’ exhibit the traits that define Metroid's design beyond the most superficial and unimportant elements.”
This is subjective and, in my opinion, incorrect. “Outbuddies” is very much a “Metroidvania” that’s essentially a Metroid homage. Does that then make it a true Metroidvania, ripping off Metroid wholesale?
"’Metroidvania’ is useless as a genre classification because it doesn't tell you anything about mechanics or the moment-to-moment gameplay experience.”
God forbid a hobby has jargon. Most gamers hear Metroidvania and understand. And if they don’t, they’ll figure it out. I’ve no issue with a hobby’s nomenclature being hyper-specific. Most people don’t mind, regardless of the hobby.
“The actual genre of these games is Platform Action-Adventure.”
Hardly anyone uses that term. The closest any term has gotten to replacing “Metroidvania” is the term “Search-Action.” And you don’t see that nearly as often as Metroidvania.
“There is no such thing as a "’Metroidvania.’"
Again, hundreds of developers and publishers who use the term beg to differ, as well as hundreds of thousands of Metroidvania enthusiasts.
“There is Metroid, and there is everything else.”
Again, other games used the “Metroid” design before Metroid, so this statement is factually and historically incorrect.
Also note that the “-vania” part of Metroidvania refers to the light RPG aspects of the genre that Metroid lacks, such as leveling, character builds, etc. “Castlevania: Symphony of the Night” brought these elements to the “Metroid Design,” thus the significance of the “-vania” suffix (though, Wonder Boy 3: The Dragon’s Trap added the light RPG elements way before SOTN, but that’s a tale for another time).
Feel free to call the genre whatever you like. I’ll be sticking with Metroidvania simply for its cultural significance.
-The word "metroidvania" came about because according to one reviewer, SOTN had similar progression to Metroid and stuck because people made games that had elements of both series and put them together.
-The MSX port of Castlevania is about as metroidvania as it gets and if that doesn't count for some reason Castlevania II should, and SOTN, a game that the vast majority of people would consider a metroidvania, apes CV2's progression in the latter half of the game.
-Most game genres were named for marketing purposes and tap into superficial qualities to make it easier to tell to people. Before FPSes they were called Doom Clones because they were all superficially like Doom. Beat 'em ups and shoot 'em ups were named because you beat up and shoot things. Roguelikes are like rogue. Maybe this genre should be called Metroidlike.
-Metroidvania is used as an umbrella term for games that are superficially like Metroid and Castlevania combined. They are pulled together for their surface similarities, but in further discussion they will be narrowed down further. You can say Rabi-Ribi is a metroidvania, but when asked for more info you would elaborate further by saying it's a metroidvania with bullet hell elements.
-Platform Action-Adventure is an extremely vague descriptor, especially with your definition. A couple weeks ago I beat a game with a concrete jump and attack button that you can explore freely with many branching paths called Shin Megami Tensei V. After that I beat another action game with platforming and adventure in a world that slowly opens up as you explore, Ninja Gaiden Sigma.
tl;dr The idea of the term "metroidvania" is that just by saying the word, you already have visions of metroid or castlevania-like gameplay, it's a one word shortcut for marketing. I think it's one of the dumber genre names this side of "character action game" but for the most part it's the only game in town, and we've all gotta play it.
@@MAYOFORCE This line of thinking is exactly why video games are in such an egregiously poor state right now.
Do you know that the average video gme released today is _quantifiably_ less than half as deep as Super Mario Bros on NES?
And do you know why SMB's superior design hasn't become the standard? Because of poor games discourse and communication, driven by a vague, poorly-defined set of terms and concepts that prevents anyone from being able to say anything meaningful about game design. Essentially, SMB hasn't become the standard because nobody knows how to talk about why it is so exceptionally good.
We have words for a reason, and we have multiple different words for a reason. Words mean specific things so that we can communicate specifically and with clarity.
@@alondite215 Whatever dude you win
@@MAYOFORCE Lol what a cop-out.
Do you have any other place I could contact you like a social media page? I made a game that might interest you, but I would like to contact you via DM for more information. I made a similar comment elsewhere not realizing the video it was about is already out, and I won't bother you with this question any longer.
Hello! Sorry for the late response. I was taking July off.
I have an email: Metroidvaniaguru@gmail.com.
Feel free to contact me 😊
Sex ?
INDEED
Male