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The MYSTERY of Modern Saiyans | Dragon Ball Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2019
- Now we have a better understanding of SAIYANS, it's time to revise the history books and see where we stand. Are we able to find out the origins of the Saiyans and what their place in the modern timeline is? Have they bred with Tuffles? Are there more Saiyans out there? It's time to discuss the Saiyan situation post Freeza
#Saiyans #DragonBallZ #Freeza #Frieza #mystery #mysteries
SOURCES - magikarp46.com/dragonball/guidebooks/07-chronology.php#part2
www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-interview/
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db analysis king vegeta discussion #broly
Didn't Bardock in the Broly movie say they took over and sold planets to the highest bidder for a while before King Cold took them over and essentially made himself the middle man?
Actually, he said "Before Frieza". This,to me, implied Cold gave them more autonomy before Frieza took over, while Frieza restricted them.
Yo that Russian accent dark blue haired Saiyan scientist lady had me really thinking
About dirty dirty things?
There was a blue haired saiyan on the 90s bardock movie
Reasons why I think the Vegeta Royal Family might be part Tsufurian. One, King Vegeta has brown hair. His son Vegeta mentioned that pure-blooded Saiyans only have black hair (in base form). Two, according to Vegeta only Saiyan super-Elites can talk while as Oozarus, the only Saiyan Super-Elites are Vegeta and King Vegeta. Three, Tarble is small for both a Saiyan and Human and lacks the Saiyan desire for combat; could be expressing Tsufurian traits. Four, both Vegeta and his father, while not that short are still below average height for Saiyans. Five, Vegeta and his father both have abnormally strong power levels compared to the rest of their race.
Vegita has dark brown hair too. It’s not pure black
Gany Kaliya Looks like their line isn’t as pure as they thought.
@@fritospie7982 Thanks, that only adds to my argument.
In Vegeta's first appearance in the anime Toei coloured Vegeta's hair brown and his armour green and orange because they didn't know his colour scheme. In Kai, they corrected that scene (of Vegeta and Nappa talking before setting off for Earth). But in Super, Vegito was protrayed with a dark brown hair colour. Really inconsistent. But interesting theory.
King Vegeta's hair was retconned to be black, other than that your points seem to stand.
Maybe the Tsufurians were bringing the Saiyans to their world as a low-class work force (or slaves) with the excuse that planet Salad was going to be destroyed so as not to gain Galactic Patrol's attention. Maybe this led to Saiyans growing resentment towards their supposed saviors, causing them to overthrow and annihilate all Tsufurian kind. That massive amount of carnage would catch King Cold's eye, leading to him reaching out to the Saiyans to incorporate them into his army. We can only speculate.
common viewer Pretty good speculation, mind you.
That...sounds a lot like what happened in Mass Effect with the Drell and Hanar, but the Drell ended up grateful and subservient to the Hanar. ugh. That was always an uncomfortable plot line for me. This helps to make a lot of sense to that aspect and the Saiyans.
I was looking for this comment before I made it, cause this is the simplest summary of events.
I really REALLY wanted to spend more time on the saiyan planet in the Broly movie. I know that time didn't allow for it but I was craving for saiyan history, dynamics and society to be expounded upon in active media for a LONG time.
Same here. The lore is so fascinating
Yeah I want more lore on it too. Hopefully they’ll continue to add more over time, maybe even focus an arc on it?
I idagree because broly on vampaa is just land , dad comes, kills stuff and drinks the blood , sparing, Nothing else because we saw basically the whole thing
@@stefannotchev7209
LostInDimension well not necessarily an arc about Broly, just one about saiyans. Idk it was just an idea
There was talk of the extended edition of the Broly movie.
Here's a theory that answers a lot of questions: the Zithurians (Tuffles) were part of the Cold Force BEFORE the Saiyans came to Planet Plant.
Trise this could explain why the Cold Force already had scouters
This more open ended history for the Saiyans also makes it easier to justify one's Saiyan OC!... I am told....
Certainly plays well with my OC's backstory. :P
The Saiyan Tuffle War probably happened decades before King Cold took over.
Yeah. Possibly on Planet Plant.
Dont forget about all the exiled saiyans we dont know about yet
The Saiyans are starting to come across as both Spartans( they have to go through some kind of mandatory combat training before taking up civilian life, even if they don't stay in the army) and kind of like Warcraft orcs ( specifically in how there are some parallels between the Sufurians and the Draenei, including the potential for interbreeding).
As far as how they got to Planet Plant, I firmly believe a decent sized group of them jumped a Tsufurian ship that already had cooardinates set for Planet Plant and it took them there without the Saiyans needing to do much else to get there ( as they were basically very primitive at this point), If Cold had anything to do with it, it was likely not outright directly, rather guiding the situation to play out the way he wanted and seeding the Saiyans on Planet Plant, and let their numbers grow. I also don't suspect it was a tentative peace the saiyans and Tsufurians had, but rather constant border skirmishes between the two groups until finally some 200 years later the Saiyans had the numbers to brute force the Tsufurians
That Nappa voice LOL. Way too good for this world.
**with Russian accent**
On Earth, you eat vegetable for breakfast.
On Soviet Vegeta, vegetable eats *you* for breakfast.
Vegeta was literally eating someone's arm in the beginning of the Z
At risk of looking like i missed some info. Those scientists had tails
As cool as the idea of saiyans purposefully removing their tails for certain professions, they simply wore this giant skirts that Paragus wore in the later part of the movie. I even thought they didnt have tails at first either until i remembered his design
But i whole heardily admit i might be deadass wrong though.
I am happy Toryama is starting to leave stuff like the number of remaining sayians open ended. He's had a bad habit of writing himself into corners, so I think it is a nice change of pace.
Masako: I wonder if Broly and Cheelai will test that theory.
George Takei: OHH MYYY...
Honestly love Dragon Ball Online's take on Earthlings: due to it being Age 1,000, almost every single Earthling has Saiyan blood, being approximately 1/1000th Sayian. This makes Earthlings much stronger (the player character being like 10 and on par with Grandpa Gohan), and giving them a love of fighting, though to a lesser extent as full blooded Sayians. This love of fighting has transformed the whole of Earth's society. Also, they can go Super Sayian, but only when they wish for power from a Shenron (Dende made a bunch of weaker sets of Dragon Balls specifically for this purpose, so the Earth can defend itself
you know something that always bothered me before is that there are humanoid in the Frieza force that basically have no physical difference besides a higher power level than humans (Recoome comes to mind). So maybe there was some slight interbreeding between some of those humanoid species after all saiyans can breed with human so it wouldn't be too big of a stretch to imagine a few hybrids here and there, surely not only saiyans would come there since it's part of Frieza's empire
You do realize her hair could just be blue because of the lighting right?
Like King Vegeta's was in the original Broly movie? Makes sense to me.
Or maybe the thing about all saiyans having black hair was just retconed.
Bardock and Gine needs to be brought back in the future arcs. Most I wanna see Goku meet his parents for the first time. Wouldn’t you agree?
Yes, I refuse to believe that Trunks and Goten are not curious about their grandparents and wouldn't engage in some crazy scheme to get the Namek or Super Balls to bring them back.
Dubuya Jay They have three wishes.
1. Ask to Bring Goku’s parents to Earth’s check in station
2. Bring back Bardock
3. Bring back Gine
@@jamesbaxter5147 You need to be more efficient...
1. Bring Trunk's and Goten's deceased grandparents to the check-in station.
2. Bring back Trunk's deceased Grandparents.
3. Bring back Goten's deceased grandparents (and that would probably include Elder Gohan!)
Dubuya Jay But can you word your wish in a way that it could fit the request in one wish? Cause otherwise that could be interpreted as two.
I don't care about bringing them back, what I want is for Goku to remember them!
This is generally how i have interpreted the lore thus far. I guess "MILITARY RACE" would make more sense.
cjsher90 Space Romans
Simien turians
I'm okay with more clarifications and some little retcon.
Love this theory! I was writing a fan novel about the saiyan origin story and there relationships with the colds. This video has inspired me to get back at it cheers masako! 👍🏽
Yo MasakoX you got a clean dragon ball collection set up.
There's Russian saiyans as well 😂
My dude Russian Tuffle-Sayins
They should have gave broly a russian accent so he could tell goku i must break you 😭😂
Oji Torres No, Paragus was clearly an American Sayin.
So the Saiyan Monarchy is actually the Space Soviets?
Rufflyns
When it comes to Saiyans and their other jobs than fighting, it was rather interesting to see how in Bardock special apparently the Saiyan were indeed somewhat simple soldiers and other jobs that were required to assist them seemed to be filled by other Frieza Force workers from other races like green lizard bird guys as scientists and medics
"Not every Saiyan hybrid has to be with a human? I wonder if Broly and Cheelai will test that theory..."
So does the the entirety of the internet, Masako.
Tarble is a thing too
@@demix2040 Yeah, but I don't recall Tarble having kids... though I think that might be down to Toriyama wondering what those kids might look like and fumbling around with a design choice for too long.
A Bardock: Father of Goku and Dragon Ball Minus Compromise Discussion would make a cool video
I'm hoping that there are surviving Saiyans out there somewhere with their own planet.
Maybe Goku and Vageta would save them from Friza?
MrDEMarq If there are, then there are no mere than on earth. Who’s would know otherwise.
I hope there are not. They introduced so many new characters so they should focus on them, not create new time and time again just to shaft them.
Huh. What if going further back, all human like races had common ancestor, but the Frieza clan kept seeding them onto other planets, and then after they differentiated enough they'd move them from place to place. So the Saiyan Tuffle war was a fight between distant cousins of the same genus but different species, as the Frieza clan tried to make better servants with their unnatural selection game.
There's a third option that everyone keeps missing, that was brought up in the BoG movie. The Namekians. They had space travel and were technologically developed up until disaster destroyed their ecosystem. But for a long time before that, they were an advanced race. Why bring them up? Well, for one thing, the Super Saiyan God legend is told within the lore held by the Namekians as explained by Shenron in the Battle of Gods movie. So it's likely that the Namekians were present at that time and were perhaps responsible for relocating the Saiyans after Planet Sadala was beyond repair. Or perhaps the Namekians allowed Sadala to be destroyed because they didn't want to expose the Saiyans to the concept of the Dragon Balls and the potential for misuse that'd arise from that.
Nyon could be prove for Vegetas story about the conflict:
Sayans are used as Slaves, many Tuffles, like Nyon, where against it, helped in there rebellion and joined the new world order as free citizens.
Can you do a video about Android 21?
Yes, and if I might add to the suggestion, a segment going into possible ways that a debut in DBS would go, and even an outcome that doesn't see Good 21 destroyed like the game.
I agree, and we need to know more of the human soul who links with her and the Z Fighters. A lot of fans claim that theirs a romance hint during the Android 21 Arc when she tells her partner he’s a very special human soul. As of now I am in the process of working on my own fanfic.
t h o t
OOOOOOH ITS SOO YUMMY
*m o a n*
saiyan genetics is so wild they could breed with nothing and give birth! XD
Vegeta has a mother, but she's not shown because not all Saiyan's are like Bardock and Gine
@@s.boundless3163 bruh it has nothing to do with bardock gine or Vegeta's parents!
@@harikiran4339 Just assumed because a lot of people complain about not seeing Vegeta's mother
Ya know, there are prob more Sayins out in the universe. If you think that only 99% of them made it back to the planet before Freeza blew it away. There could be 1000s of them still out there that like vegeta or his brother. Or renegades etc.
So there are still story opportunities for others to show up.
Can you do a discussion video on Moro?🐐🐐🐐🐐
Isn't this a Dragon Ball channel? What does Krypto the Super dog's villains have to do with it? Lol XD
YES YES YES!!! The Super manga doesn't get nearly enough love. I would love to see Masako talk about some of the things from it that weren't in/changed from the anime.
@@georgehouliaras7239 haven't you read the manga?
@@nakeemparsons2527 Yes I know but Moro's design is laughable to me. He is a freaking goat lol
@@georgehouliaras7239 well frieza is a lizard, cell was a bug and buu was a bubblegum lol. I think they maintaining their whacky standands😂
This was really good... was wondering when you were going to continue the what if gohan went super saiyan early or what if piccolo couldn't save gohan in time story's.
Is her hair really blue though? I figure it's either just due to the room's unnatural lighting, or how anime has always used darker shades of certain colours (blue, green, etc.) to distinguish things like black hair or clothes against dark backgrounds (yes, believe it or not, Spike Spiegel doesn't actually have green hair).
I really want the Saiayans to have a retribution. Out of all the species known in Universe 7, they have the potential to become insanely powerful fighters (hybrids included). While ruthless they do have a sense of purpose and pride.
Jesse Gough Over time, the Sayins will breed with the inhabitants of Earth, spreading their dominant Sayin genes while losing their looks and desire to fight. They will be reborn that way.
I always got this feeling that the Tuffles/Tsufurians we not quite the innocent victims of the Saiyans. From the few Tuffles that we have seen they struck me as having a sort of "Might Makes Right" mentality. It's possible that they and the Saiyans were more alike than either race would like to admit and that if King Cold was involved then he more than likely backed up the Saiyans due to him seeing the Tuffles as a threat to his empire. Who's to say that if given the chance the Tuffles wouldn't have become conquerors with their advanced weapons of war?
Can you do another video of Android 21 and the human soul who links with her, Goku and the Z gang?
Maybe Nyon is a hybrid..... why would vegeta know that hybrid saiyans have more potential and greater power unless he knew of saiyan hybrids amongst the population
The saiyans started the war, there's no reason for the tuffles to enslave a race. They're the most technologically advanced race in the known universe, they make CC look like hot garbage, they don't need slaves, in addition it isn't the first time vegeta used the term slavery to mean servitude.
Can't wait for the next series, "What If Broly and Cheelai were a Couple?" All 10 parts of it.
I got a awesome what if idea
What if goku was adopted by Anakins mom ( star wars )
"It's over Kakarrot! I have the high ground"
"You underestimate my Kaioken!"
Ethan Vandergriff “You were chosen one! You were supposed to save the Human race, not destroy it!”
"Or are you just curious about Nion?"
Ok, fine! You called me out! You win a cookie!
i almost forgot about Tuffles, i dont remember them being mentioned in canon since around Namek saga i think? are we 100% sure that Toriyama didnt forgot about them or they were retconned? if they still exists there somewhere it would be nice for them to show up or be mentioned again in manga/anime.
Do they even exist in canon? I only thought they existed in Movies, anime filler and GT.
Pretty sure the mention of the tuffles was in King Kai's exposition about the Saiyans conquering Planet Plant.
@@CrystalGreymon But was that in the Manga?
It's not no. King Kai gave an explanation while Goku was training on his planet, but the story was filler. Like in OG Dragonball when Roshi tells the history of the Dragonballs and it's completely false
Does anyone else imagines how would the other Saiyans look like as SSJ's and up?
King Vegeta's a pretty simple and solid guess.
Like his son but with facial hair and royal armour.
I thought Nion(I don't know how to spell her name) was a reference to the blue haired saiyan lady that was seen in the flashbacks in the Saiyan saga. It's possible they could do more with the concept though.
Ya got Nion's name right. It's derived from Onion.
I've never clicked a video so fast as I did this video, love ya Masako!!
I got a "What If" for you: What if Broly's(Super Broly) space pod was knocked off course and landed on Earth? In fact let's go balls to the wall let's say he landed on Namek and was raised by Guru.
Tomb Keeper13 oooo a namekian one is pretty interesting
GT had a ton of great ideas and, while I like that they have kept some things, I would like it if they kept a few more, especially Giru.
I also would not mind them just redoing Baby's arc entirely. While I like the shadow dragon arc, it almost necessarily had to be the final arc of the show if it's ever done (or we could somehow retcon it out since a hero's legacy shows Goku Jr. getting at least one dragonball implying they exist again). 17's arc should stay in HFIL and I much prefer the 17 we got in super. Space travel is great and I would love redoing that arc from the ground up and probably not with kid Goku. I like kid Goku but maybe not in GT and I'd just appreciate us focusing on literally anyone else if they don't plan on focusing on a huge threat.
Here's an interesting idea, what if Frieza Raised Goku? That could work.
Swear that's Bucciarati in the thumbnail.
A couple things:
It could be the sayjinns had an elder or 'first warrior' and only started calling them kings in response to the tuffles. 'you have a king? Well so do we! Now speak to us damnit! We want a seat at the table!'
King cole popping up literally within !months of planet plant getting razed to the ground is the most suspicious thing here. I could even see king cold having sent agents to pose as fellow subject races to the tuffles, sewing the seeds in sayjinn kinds the tuffles are not the benevolent cooperators and saviors of the sayjinn race and instead keep all the best for themselves and wish only to use the sayjinns as disposable labor.
Cold fomenting rebellion, but only after a race has produced something of worth he can then take for himself.... Sounds like something his son would take to heart.
Also I hadn't realized nappa predated the sayjinn revolt. Neat.
exchange of power between King Kold and Freiza couldn't have happened in age 732 because if you ad 41 years onto that you end up with age 773. Also in the movie if you go watch the Bartok scenes the way bardock talks about the way sayings conquer planets it makes it sound like they've been doing it long before freezing cold showed up so I think there's a lot of reckoning of the timeline in this movie. This I believe it is stated by Gine that Goku and or Kakarot is 3 years old and if the planet was destroyed in a 737 that would mean that he was voting age 734.the timeline if you look through the movie creates a lot of inconsistency in a lot of potholes what's makes me think this movie won't be canon in the long run and they're going to reanimate it in the series.
Thanks for bringing in the Tarble deets.
You just earned that like for the fact alone that you were so polite to thank the viewer for having clicked on it.
Hey, Masako. This was just a suggestion, but, I have a few idea's for possible what if's.
1. What if's about the non cannon dbz movies, but within the What if Raditz turned good and What if Gine went with Goku to earth universes.
2. Tell the story of Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!, but within the timeline of What if Raditz turned good and What if Gine went with Goku to earth.
3. A what if about if Bardock and Gine were able to go to earth with Kakarot.
4. A what if about if Bardock was wrong about Frieza wanting to destroy the saiyans and goes to earth for Kakarot. Either not long after sending him away or after Goku finally wins the martial arts tournament.
5. A what if series about if the universe 7 saiyans were like the universe 6 saiyans, but were still forced to work for Frieza.
I love your what if's and hope you at least consider these ideas. I just wanted to contribute to the fanbase somehow.
p.s. please, when you continue your series about Gine going to earth with Goku, have Gine take Vegeta on as a sursget son, have still get with Bulma, and when Raditz returns to the story have his still get with Launch and later on they have Raunch and the twins.
Thank you for your time if you read this.
If planet Vegeta wasn't destroyed. Kami may sense bardocks approach so Goku could end up on snake way ?
I do like the idea of it all being a plot of the Royal Icejin family. The entire events being slowly nudged by them over time
So wait my xenoverse character's cannon of being blue haired half-tuffle half-saiyans might actually be possible in the cannon? thats weird and awesome!
My idea was they where the same race just evolved seperately one with knowledge(tuffles) and one with strength(saiyans)
I thought because of the pods in the broly movie saiyans were either bio engineered or genetically altered
Ah, the good old convenience for Toriyama; leave things open enough for the fans to discuss and to save time when coming up with new ideas.
How about what if the Ginyu force turned good?
Like how about the Z fighters spare Some of the members of the Ginyu force and imprison them instead, ( which may seem far fetched but I recall the Z fighters insisting to spare the members of the Frieza force in RoF) later they escape during a fight with Frieza and say they want to fight for him, but instead Frieza kills them for their weakness, and maybe even Ginyu as a frog witnesses this, the Ginyu force then contemplates this in the other world and I'll let you take it from here Masako.
I had a similar idea . I could try to write a script or story and send it to Masako if you'd like . I was gonna write a different one and send it anyway .
Devan fortier I'd honestly prefer to see Masako's take on it, but you can do that if you want.
Neon could simply be a pediatrician assigned by the Cold Army probably because of lack of care given to babies by saiyans
Lupin823 That could be it. But her being a Tuffle-Sayin hybrid is way cooler.
She's a saiyan raised in space Russia obviously.
The Hutt's to palaces thing is a plot hole created by the anime. There were no tuffles in the original manga
But it was in toriyama's notes for the anime, as was the entire tuffle/saiyan war. So while not in the manga itself, it is canon to the manga timeline.
Love it.
Are we going to be getting a certian motherly tag along what if part 8 soon :)
Where did you get the name of the blue-haired Saiyan? I looked in the credits of Dragon Ball Super: Broly, and Nayan isn't mentioned, nor anything close to Nayan. Thank you for any information.
Your Videos are the best keep it up Mate
dude please link the guy who does the background piano covers! Only fair.
0:19 bottom left corner
“What if Broly and Cheelai will test that theory” 😂
We’ve know Hybrids do have some greater potential then most Fully Blooded Saiyans
It's remarkable how many theories people make up for something that was made chapter by chapter and by someone who forgets their own work. If Toriyama couldn't even remember the difference between Super Saiyan 2&3, I'm not imagining he thought of intricate backstories for anything really.
I instant transmissioned here as fast as I could.
Is yamoshi the super sayian legend in his ozaru form?
Sorry I haven’t been Here MasakoX Love the new video though!
Why is Bruno Bucciarati is on the thumbnail?
I got another what if for you.
"What if at the end of DBS there is new knowledge about the DBS timeline being a alternate timeline all along without anyone even realizing it?"
Do note, they could always add in some form of time patrol to set the timeline straight again or other characters that make them self's known for better or worse.
The more involved Cold is the better in my opinion considering Dragon Ball lore. And recent character development for King Cold. He must've received the title of King after a great run.
Did you know that the saiyan scientist woman was first seen on a fan manga by Toyotaro/Toyble as Turles mother.
The Dragon Ball timeline is still easy to follow compared to two other timelines I can name but won't.
I wonder if Gohan will learn to harness his inner Great Ape power to a Wrathful form like Broly’s?
Gohan's Character is done. Get over it. I love Gohan too, but he will never be the same .
@@Dantelor Stop, that's really annoying.
go lament somewhere else.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 Why does my comment annoy you? its the f*cking internet. If u dont like what you see, click away. I'm not bothering or harrassing anyone. Even if I "did" it wouldnt matter, since again, its the f*cking internet. Gohan wont be coming back, end of story. Dont know why need to make a hassle :D
@@KaiserMattTygore927
It's true
Gohan is done move on.
It seems more like Trunks will
Or maybe The Tsufurians were able to out smart the saiyans, tricking them into thinking they've defeated them but are actually still out there somewhere...
The rapid development of Saiyan society can mean only one thing! Their a long lost type of Orkoid.
I wonder if you’ll ever do “What if Goku was recruited by the Red Ribbon Army?”
Or better yet what if it was the red ribbon army who found goku instead of grandpa gohan
It is still kinda a plot hole for HOW did the Saiyans got to Planet Plant after they lost their home Planet In Universe 7’s unexplored continuity, but that topic is a debatable discussion in its own right...
It would be nice to have some kind of official explanation, but I think that's not coming anytime soon. Haverok and I believe that either the Tsufurians either transported them to Plant (out of fascination) or King Cold did to see their potential in the long term. Again these are theories but may be slight possibilities. If only Shin fessed up!
I have a theory that the Tsufurians problably visited the original sayian homeworld looking to enslave the sayians and the ones who ended up on planet plant where ones who where abducted not lomg before the sayian home planet was destroyed
Not in notifs..... DAMN YOU RUclips
My theory is that the blue haired woman is not a saiyan or Tuffle at all. She probably works for King Cold but is a scientist instead of a soilder.
I have an interesting what if for you masakoX what if beerus woke up in gt timeline
Where's this 'Safurian' name coming from? Is there a reference to it somewhere? I don't see it anywhere.
I suspect that goku's wish may have revived the sayain race.
I would b interested in a what if involving if 17 was deemed out of bounds when he landed on the lamp during the tournament. It would b a nice mini what if
11:54 And more MARKETING!
Onio is alive!
Broly and Cheelai? A kid?... A green Saiyan?.... Who ever thought of such a thing lol
The internet at large.
I have question, that's probably been asked a lot, but are you gonna do a Future Ranch Retcon part 2 that covers DragonBall Super "Future Trunks" arc? I mean, they do go to the future...
Part 2 covering Super?
Pretty sure Part 2 would likely cover the return face the Android in the past after the 3 Year Timeskip for training.
@@CrystalGreymon yeah, you're write.
I think this could be a coincidence but I named my female Saiyan on xenoverse Nion. But I didn't think of it sadly XD I got it from a name generator
I'd love to learn more please.
Scientists also have a different accent. Almost eastern European to my ears.
13:17 I require Fanart of Nion immediately.
What if Broly wasn't exiled?