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HISTORY OF SAIYANS | A Dragonball Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2017
- The History of Saiyans. Something that has been a little confusing if you watched the show from the very beginning. Today we discuss the specific origins of the likes of Goku, Vegeta, Bardock and of course their king! Did the Saiyans start off as a tribe rather than a species? Let's discuss that!
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"Eat, Beat, Repeat" - Ancient Saiyan Proverb.
Lmao
"My son, me, or the planet?"
"YES!"
kalajel “kills him” Smart ass
Given how primitive Saiyans were, I often mused that the Tuffles/Tsufuru-jin, may have uprooted a dying race from a neighouring planet to act as a labour force, discovered they couldn't control them, and tossed them to the wilderness.
Hey Masako. You missed a detail about the inception of alien life in the storyline. During the final fight against King Piccolo they had a conversation that went something like:
King Piccolo: "No human can withstand my power!"
Goku: "Maybe I'm not human"
During the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament Piccolo and Kami had a conversation in Namekian with the written language next to them.
It still bothers me how the most prominent version of saiyan civilization in the show only existed for a few decades. couldn't they have spread that over 1000 years at-least?
Worth noting, "Arcosian" seems to be the English dub's attempt to give a name to Freeza's race (based off of its similarity to the word "arctic").
2:48 goku reveal of being a alien is the Japanese version of luke I'm your father
A story about ancient saiyans, led by a legendary super saiyan, and a smaller band of non-warlike ones, led by the first super saiyan god, would be pretty interesting.
The downside of random writing is since it's not important to Toriyama (he just makes it up on the fly), he doesn't develop things that may be interesting to fans. Saiyans were just a minor plot device to get Goku into space for one arc. He didn't want a whole planet of them threatening earth, hence why they're all extinct via space 'reasons.'
We now have saiyans back from universe 6, but the have no tails, they have human personalities, so they're not really saiyans either. The closest we ever got was History of Bardock, which Toriyama didn't even have much to do with. Until he tried to ruin it, anyway.
Ayy you here? Sweet!
You really need to pick and choose with Dragon ball's story. Toriyama and Toei don't write for the sake of cohesiveness, just entertainment.
PlagueOfGripes Toriyama, in my opinion, is a lazy genius. All the cool ideas he came up with were just so he didn't have to do more work.
Goku growing up was just to make fight scenes easier to draw. All the characters flying were just so he didn't have to draw them going places.
Perhaps in Universe 6 the more peaceful Saiyans managed to defeat the smaller warrior clan?
If I remember correctly Universes 6 & 7 were supposed to be mirrored twins. Like the Saiyans, Frost is the opposite of Frieza, at least in the manga, being genuine in his desire to help people and end wars. The anime just decided to cash-in on Frieza fans by making Frost a clone of him in everything but name.
It's clear that Toriyama is a very flippant person when it comes to his creative endeavors, but honestly is there as long-lived as a series as Dragon Ball that has fewer flaws and oversights? Yes, there's plenty. But God damn it this is Dragon Ball, and I'll love it no matter what happens.
*+PlagueOfGripes* Dude, I've had the exact same idea before, and it could've made the history of the SS God Shenron recounts in *Battle of Gods* much better. This could've also fed into Vegeta describing what he remembered of the original Legendary Super Saiyan in the Namek saga while watching Goku own the Ginyu Force.
*Imagine it like this:* The ancient tribal saiyans worshiped the original SS, who could only control his power in Great Ape-form, but his rage consumed him to the point where instinct took over and he wreaked havoc even on his own allies. With the race facing annihilation from one of its own, a few pure-hearted saiyans united with a plan.
Performing the first SS God ritual, a savior was born who promptly & thoroughly defeated the rampaging SS in a climactic face-off that nearly decimated the planet. Despite being spared by the SS God in his weakened state, the monster refused surrender. As Vegeta said, his rage then "erupted" and his body self-destructed from ki overflow.
The surviving saiyans on both sides bowed in respect to the pure-saiyans and for a few decades denounced war. However, as is their nature, later generations of saiyans eventually returned to battle, only this time with greater organization and less infighting. The remaining pure-saiyans thus officially gave up on their own kind and left.
Exiling themselves to quiet meditation on a faraway world, they died peacefully without ever fighting again. As time went on, the SS God's noble exploits slowly faded from memory while the original SS's ferocity fostered his legend.
There is another, potentially darker way the sudden jump in technology and using it could be explained. Heres the thing, history is written by the victors. And there are two sides to that story - Vegeta says the Saiyans were treated as slaves, the other side says the Saiyans attacked out of nowhere. Somewhere in the middle is likely the truth. But there are two depictions that are somewhat inconsistent I find of the tuffles. Some show them being about half the size of a saiyan or human, where as others they appear to be the same size. So given the nature of their long term relationship of issues with one another, it's not impossible that somewhere in there, voluntary or not, some kind of cross breeding happened, and it may have bee more prevalent at a time that allowed them to better adapt to the technology, or they didn't kill ALL the tuffles, merely the majority and, if Vegeta's version of events is to be believed, could have enslaved some of their former masters to teach them. And I don't say this for the sake of it because there is a key point that Masakox points out -genetics.
Almost every saiyan has black hair, they are generally fairish skinned, etc. Except for a handful. You randomly see a few that have blue hair, blonde hair, etc - like the tuffles. Though, one of these exceptions - King Vegeta. Possibly Vegeta himself as his hair while more consistently black now has been some other colours. It's possible that somewhere in line, Vegeta's family was intermixed, leading to King Vegeta, who may havehad increased intelligence through all this, which is why he was able to wage a war against an opponent of greater technology, numbers, and tactical thinking till the full moon. And could have helped them learn it as well, especially given while we have only really seen a handful of saiyans, Vegeta and perhaps his father seem unusually intelligent as Raditz, Nappa, and others may not be idiots, but are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed and seem to lack the level of thinking Vegeta does. Even Bardock opts for basically a head on attack against Freeza. And could explain why with Goku's family, a lot of Goku's traits seemed to be passed on and you can see a resemblance, especially Goten, whereas Vegeta, Trunks looks almost nothing like his father and far as we can tell, Bulla/Bra won't either, which seems odd given the genetics of saiyans at the least Trunks should almost be the spitting image of his father. But, if Vegeta is not quite as pure blooded saiyan as he thinks he is - that may better explain why it is his kids look so different, and maybe even why it is that Goku constantly seems to surpass him in strength. Because maybe Goku is a truly pure-blooded Saiyan, meaning he is naturally stronger than Vegeta, where as Vegeta has some Tuffle DNA, allowing him to be a bit smarter and tactically minded, but not quite the same physical level as Goku, and perhaps also why of the male saiyans we see, is one of the shortest.
Which I think could be another what if kinda video if you think it has credibility - "Is Goku the only full blooded Saiyan" or "Is Vegeta part Truffle" or something like that. I do think something like that being the case could be a good explanation as to why some things are as they are, other than plot.
I always figured that in the manga canon, the Tsfurians (Tuffles) were clients of Freeza or part of his empire. When they disappeared, it was not long before Freeza took notice and sent envoys to the Saiyans. Being the evil emperor he is, Freeza took the pragmatic route and instead of punishing the Saiyans for their genocide of Planet Plant, he recruited them.
+Maphisto86 So you might say that the Tuffles were like arms dealers for Freeza and his forces before they were driven to extinction. That puts things into perspective. Perhaps the Saiyans ate the Plantians after they landed...
I always assumed that the Tuffles provided weapons, armor, scouters, maybe soldiers and ships too, and in return they got to survive under Freeza, living in relative peace and prosperity. Perhaps the Tuffles were using or *selling* Saiyans as shock troops in order to expand their own inter-planetary empire or galactic trade markets. Freeza saw the potential in Saiyans and bought their loyalty but being a man of business, he should have read the fine print before making his investment...
All they had to do was destroy/conquer the Tuffles and "The galaxy would be theirs". In the process, Freeza and the Saiyans would also gain access to Tuffle technologies. Win/win for both of them.
I noticed something in later media...I believe it was both in GT and the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans. In both cases, I believe Vegeta's argument was that the Tuffles enslaved the Saiyans. Which when you think about it would make sense.
Why else would the Saiyans decide suddenly to fight the Tuffles? It would also add credence to them adapting the Tuffle technology for their own (the slave Saiyans would be around it and would therefore learn by observation).
It would also make sense if you consider the fact that they were on Planet Plant for a few hundred years before attacking the Tuffles. That means at least twice there had been a full moon and no attack on the Tuffles. Perhaps that last 100 years was the time of their enslavement to the Tuffles.
In the end karma would bit the Saiyans in their ass as although they defeated their first enslavers (Tuffles), they'd be defeated by their next enslaver (Frieza).
Speaking of karma, I think the purple Plantians (which I thought was a term for the guys from Episode of Bardock) were actually destroyed by the Tuffles when they came to Planet Plant (since they're technologically advanced, maybe Plant wasn't their home planet). Then the karma is when the next race migrated to Plant (Saiyans), the cycle would repeat.
Interesting theory!!
I was always under the impression that the Saiyan's cultural stagnation was caused by the Tuffles. I mean, if we take 'Plan To Eradicate The Saiyans' as canon, they had people who designed weapons to exterminate them, and those kinds of things don't crop up overnight.
basically space-spartans
I like to think of the Saiyans as being Spartans and Freeza and his army being the Roman Empire.
Letty Lunasical Yet in reality the Spartans would probably have been able to take down the Roman Empire had Sparta been a threat to Rome, but Sparta couldn't do it alone. They'd be too small. But that's okay because Rome feared Greece, mainly because the Greeks were actually intelligent and Rome was politics was conquest
chris yolo50
Frieza=Juluis Caesar.
chris yolo50 nah saiyans are just a mercenary nation, the spartans werent that tough, they ended up degenerating once they gained hegemony over greece
Saiyans aren't gay like Spartans 😅😅
Makes you think of the saying "Better to live one day as a lion than one hundred years as a sheep."
As someone who majors in genetics, it excites me when I can apply population genetics to fictional species in discussions
To be fair, the manga and the original anime claimed it was five years ago according to Raditz. Also, King Kai explanation can easily be explained as him hiding the truth from Goku since he didn't want him anywhere near Frieza.
dragonball has been retconning stuff ever since those days and now people are complaining about how vegito s fusion was retconned
The interesting thing is that in U6 Saiyans are still a warrior race but not cruel or vicious, And They Lost Their Tails So Long Ago They Don't Even Remember Ever Having Them. That could be the deciding factor in their drastic change in personality compared to U7 Saiyans.
Can we discuss the origins of Gods of Destructions? I mean, it's heavily implied that they aren't born the same way Kais are.. that they used to be mortals. What is Beerus's origin? What was he before he became God of Destruction along with his bro Champa? And was he from Universe 11? There is a guy who looks a lot like those kitties in the Pride Troopers.
Mikoto Misaka I doubt you're gonna see a lot of origin explaining in Super. It's cast of characters is so gigantic that I doubt you're gonna see anything that explains the slightest. Super is a giant convoluted mess
I feel like GoDs are the strongest mortals from their respective Universe and then they're awarded their place as a GoD by Zeno/Grand Priest. After that they're trained (by an Angel, like Whis and Vados for an example) in the art of being a GoD, becoming even stronger and learning all the techniques and skills necessary to be a proper GoD. That would make sense why Whis would offer Goku the place of GoD in Battle of Gods.
Mikoto Misaka They Were Probably Chosen from the Strongest Mortals in the Universes,But I think Beerus and Champa were A Different Case
maybe they were both from universe 7 but since each universe only needs one GoD and the two wee of similiar power, Champa was assigned to universe 6, it'd explain why he visits U7 so much,(asside from him trying to get the super dragon balls)it's his home.
Yes, they would definitely have to be from the same universe since they're brothers. And then again, it might be a plot hole (Toriyama isn't the writer he used to be with memory that horrible.)
Lmao
"Dude I don't plan anything I just go with the flow"
- Toriyama, 2016
He thought he could get away with it, but the gazillion resulting plot holes say otherwise
I just have a few questions left after this video 1. Where does the legend of the Super Saiyan God fit in.
2. Vegeta mentions that the armor that Cabba was wearing was the style of armor the Saiyans wore before they joined Frieza. So at what point between wearing fur and loincloths to wearing battle armor would that fit in?
3. Because of the short span of years between events does this mean of course King Vegeta did but Bardock as well fought in the Saiyan-Tuffle War? Because if Bardock did, then I would of rather seen that then the episode of bardock even though it wasn't necessarily bad and you guys did make it a lot more hilarious.
Anyway nice job as always and I look forward to the next one.
If you look closely, that "Look Aliens" thing from the anime was a reference to the movie, Alien. It even has "science officer eyes only" written at the end. Funny that Goku really did end up being an alien, though!
A thought, of the Saiyan problem Frieza saw. I've always saw it as, Frieza at the time wasn't so afraid of the direct threat to his own life the Saiyans could pose, after all the strongest Saiyan there ever was at that time wasn't even a match for the Ginyu force. But rather he was afraid of the havoc they could wreck apon his empire, Frieza might not be the most lovey dovey of individuals to care about his subjects, but hard to call yourself an Emperor if you have a bunch of psycho apes blowing all your planets up, that wouldn't exactly leave him with a whole hell of lot to rule over.
I think there are two points you missed:
1 - Vegeta referred as Cabba's armor as the armor the Saiyans traditionally used. So they weren't cavemen, they had an advanced society.
2 - Another proof supporting my previous point is that they left planet Sadal on a SPACESHIP. That means that they also had an advanced technology, that's why they were able to understand how the Tsufurian technology worked.
I can't say why in the anime they are portrayed as cavemen. My best guess is that when they landed on Plant they didn't have the instruments or the technology to build their civilization from scratch, but they saw an opportunity to steal the one used by the Tsufurians.
sunkensheep also I feel like maybe Vegeta was too young to see how the saiyans were in their primitive lifestyle but then again idk how quick they became advanced
sunkensheep_they regressed mentally than for a while,and the key origin might of had modifications hidden stuff,hence super saiyan 3 has the non eyebrow look of a race that blended in but died out.Notice goku broke through his pineal and saw planets when he 1st turned ss3.
Hey Masako, I had an idea for a discussion. It's something that's been bugging me since Super Saiyan God came around: how divine are Goku and Vegeta now that they've unlocked this power? Is the only benefit that they can sense divine ki now or is there perhaps more to it? Could they even be immortal now? It just bugs me how little we know about the transformation and what it means for Goku and Vegeta's future. What are your thoughts?
What happened is that experiencing divine ki opened up new potential. They are not gods themselves, though the potential is now there, where before they were essentially at their maximum. In Battle of Gods, when Goku drops out of Super Saiyan God mid-battle he isn't as powerful, but still much stronger than before the ritual; Beerus actually points out to him that he'd lost the God power and had been fighting in Super Saiyan form for the past little bit without realizing (I think Beerus may have eased up a bit once Goku reverted to keep the fight interesting).
You've got an incredible talent of gathering evidence and retelling the amazing stories we all love! Very well done!
7:45 tbf in reality Evolution is equally weird as dinosaur essentially evolved into chicken and pidgeons to say it bluntly
der andi Evolution doesn't make any logical sense. It's not logical to have something become something it isn't, no matter what variable you throw in there, even if that variable is time. I love the concept in fiction though
Collin Willmot Mutations and adaptions
Your Mom Adaptation is an entirely different thing. Also, genetic mutations, at least most of the time, don't allow for repopulating. That's why more times than not those with Down Syndrome can't reproduce. I'm also not going to be convinced that coincidentally everything fell in place perfectly through time because it just did
Your Mom Adaptation is an entirely different thing. Also, genetic mutations, at least most of the time, don't allow for repopulating. That's why more times than not those with Down Syndrome can't reproduce. I'm also not going to be convinced that coincidentally everything fell in place perfectly through time because it just did
der andi yeah, Evolution is weird. They added that word after "Dragon Ball" and...yeeeeaaahhh...
The "History of the Saiyans" should goes as follows:
1. Planet Salad was home to two competing species: the Tuffles and the Saiyans. The Saiyans conquer the Truffles, and what's left of the Truffles gets absorbed by the Saiyans. This results in the Saiyans having the capacity for technology, in spite of still being a warrior race.
2. A disaster of some kind forces the Saiyans to flee Planet Salad, resulting in the invasion of Planet Plant. The conqueror of the planet, a man who led his people to safety, is Vegeta. I would add that this Vegeta would be the Legendary Super-Saiyan from 1000 years before, and that it was stories of him, as the LSS,, that caught Frieza's ancestors attention.
3. Planet Vegeta prospers under Planet Vegeta's "partnership" with Frieza until the Bardock Rebellion. The rest is history.
I made Vegeta's ancestor a LSS because it brings home Vegeta's obsession with the Saiyan lore, as well as stoking his own ambition to be the "the prince of all the Saiyans". If he could be the next LSS, he could be lead the Saiyans and take down Frieza himself. Ironically, he would succeed in one of those goals, when Vegeta surpassed being a legend, but became a Saiyan GOD. Food for thought.
Masako, here's a theory as to how they evolved so quickly. Cross Breeding. We know how quickly Trunks and Goten turned SSJ, and even Pan in DBS is extremely proficient in her ki abilities as an infant. I believe that Saiyan blood might benefit from a kind of genetic zenkai boost from interspecies mating. What if some cross bred with the Tuffles, and therefore gained more scientific knowledge to understand their technology?
Nah just because Saiyans are very prideful and don't like other races' civilizations. Did you see how much Vegeta and Raditz initially despised Gohan because of his mixed heritage?? I'm pretty sure cross breeding wouldn't of sat well with the Saiyan society.
In the manga when Nappa and Vegeta come to earth Nappa makes the suggestion that they create a new Saiyan race by mating with human females.
2:47 - When Beerus found out that if they lost the tournament of power they would be erased
Uhh. Saibamen were made by Saiyan Scientists.
So yes. There were saiyan scientists.
And the plantians said to have left Plant (as we see one in Res. of F.) and the tuffles took over Planet Plant
There's also the SSJ God on Planet Plant.
Corvus Nope. Saibamen were created by Tuffles to combat the low class saiyans. When the tuffles died off, they took the saibamen with them and made them as disposable training partners as well as disposable. footsoldiers for the saiyan race.
Noooo.
They were made by Saiyans.
Look at the wiki man. It even states it's source is the Daizenshuu 7. The same one Masako is using.
King Vegeta: Frieza can we talk?!!!
Frieza: Shurikayn....
The speed at which the Saiyans figured out tech is not a surprise really, They learn at a horrifying rate after all. Goku learned the kamahameha just by seeing it proformed and Vegeta learned to sense energy from just fighting with Goku and watching Nappa fight the others. So clearly they can learn extremely fast and add this to their power then you have a rather disturbing combo for a species that loves to fight and WILL EAT ANYTHING.
what if the universe 6 saiyans are the other group that managed to actually defeat the saiyans who were more similar to universe 7?
Hey Masako can you make a discussion on what if gohan trained just like goku since childhood and never studied . What would happen in dbs if gohan was trained to max level.
Dark Prince he would be goku 2.0.
Lloyd Christian No i meant how strong would he be compared to current gohan
If Gohan never stopped training after the Cell Games, Buu wouldn't have been summoned (and if he did, Gohan would pound his ass easily) and Beerus would've fought SSG Gohan, instead of SSG Goku, when he came to Earth. I doubt Gohan would've defeated Beerus, but it would be a very close fight.
Dark Prince I feel like while he would be strong, he would still not want to fight. He might even outright retire after the Cell fight and try to do something else, like the whole scholar shtick. But of course, he would be called back into action.
Dark Prince I think he would rival Goku and vegeta
I see in the comments people mentioning Beerus and SSj God, and that MasakoX failed to include them. Yet, He clearly stated the official Guide Book"s History of the Saiyans. He also stated that this came out in 1995, when Toriyama was about the finish the story of Dragon Ball, about 20 years before super.
So MasakoX did not get the History wrong. He delivered what was promised by the video. A great Video on that. In fact, this actually allows MasakoX the opportunity for a part 2 of the History of the Saiyans, Super Edition, because to be fair, super did retcon the History.
As a teen watching DBZ the confusing story around the Saiyans annoyed me. It made it seem like the Kamis and other guys in charge were completely incompetent, not accurately knowing about how the planet of such a powerful race was destroyed or that Space Hitler Freeza was flying around murdering en masse.
Very informative, but there's one thing that I've always wondered:
Who invented space armor, Frieza or the Saiyans?
That is interesting to see the whole story laid out. Great video!!
I'm so early I can see the little kids saying first, second, third Ect.
...third and I'm so early comments.
In latin america it was huge. Here we saw Dragonball fully then Dragonball Z, so when I saw it I was like holy shit! Not to mention there wasn't an announcement for Z when Dragonball ended. Cool stuff honestly.
For the record, that story about the Saiyans that King Kai tells to Goku is cut off in KAI, so I assume that was just Z filler. But even if we considerated that, another reason for King Kai to tell Goku about it was in order to keep him away from knowing about Freeza. After all, the Saiyans who are about to invade Earth were working for the Emperor of Evil right before knowing about the Dragon Balls.
Do: If vegeta NEVER killed nappa
Mike McKaasStein he got wished back to life
No he didn't
I would like to see what scenario or scenarios Masako could come up with for if Nappa had survived the battle on Earth.
Patrick Barlow he would become a Hollywood producer
gargoyles9999 in the abridged, yes. But if it had been in the official series, who knows?
I think you missed the civil war between the Saiyans I remember that it was also mentioned on the Daizenshuu timeline. I believe it was a way to explain the filler episode in which Ten Shin Han, Yamcha and the others travel to the Past from Kami's palace.
There is also the Super Saiyan God story explained in Battle of Gods. which may very well be the point in which both universes diverge. In theory, the original Super Saiyan God was a pure of heart Saiyan, and with his defeat, the evil Saiyans were the dominant ones. It may be that on Sadara in Universe 6, things happened the other way around and the pure heart Saiyans won. At least, from what Cabba says, they seem to be good people compared to the ones in Universe 7.
I never understood Freeza's logic on wiping out the Saiyans. An intelligent ruler and conqueror would consider them a total asset.
You can literally take a baby, leave it on a planet and come back after like a year and the planet with either be conquered or close. You'd think he'd treat them the best out of all his minions so that in the event one of them fulfilled the Saiyan legend, they'd choose willingly to use this power to further Freeza's cause. Hell, he even says himself that he never really knew how strong he could get because he was just born as powerful as he is.
Seeing Saiyans continuing to get stronger under his rule should have motivated him to attempt to grow his own powers so that even if they did become super saiyans, he'd still outclass them even if they did choose to rebel.
I totally agree, but it would seem that he's too egotistical for his own good
Atticus Grim he has hundreds of thousands of warriors who rival or are superior to the Saiyan race. How would the Saiyans even get to him?? It's no need to train when you have a galactic empire.
Saiyan Genocide > Quincy Genocide > Uchiha Genocide
masako thank you for grate content
The "Guardian that summoned meteors to blow up Vegeta..." Was King Kai talking about Beerus? It's been established that Beerus SPECIFICALLY gave Frieza the go-ahead to blow up the planet, so it could stand to reason that Frieza's propaganda team spun the story to King Kai saying Beerus took out the planet himself via meteors.
In essence, Beerus's existence was hinted at in a filler anime episode almost three decades before he was even designed and introduced!
Thanks for the clarification. Definitely makes universe 6 saiyans make more sense. I hope they continue to add more history and give more significance to their existence. And how they link to humans.
Hi, I think i have an interesting topic that could follow perfectly on this one. You asked yourself; what would the saiyans be like if they survived.. I can't help but think that the saiyan race does live. Nappa, Vegeta, Radditz, Tarble and Kakarot are not the only one that survived. Just like Tarble and Kakarot there must have been dozens, hundreds maybe thousands of saiyan babies sent to other planets all over space over the years??? And I am not talking about fanfic here, this is an actual fact. Even on the day Frieza blew up planet Vegeta, Kakarot was send to earth. And I know that all of the saiyans had been called back to planet Vegeta but I can not imagine a saiyan baby or infant operating he space pods and call back every kid younger than lets say ten... Maybe I am wrong, Maybe someone knows something I don't. Anyway thanks if anyone read this.
best regard
Masako u always produce great content.Also u have a great knowledge of this series.Keep it up Masako your awesome
Technically a god did Destroy Planet Vegeta... Beerus just had Frieza to do it for him.
Actually Masako, I grew up with DB when it was airing in 2004-2005, and I was really shocked when I was told by Sonic the Hedgehog that Goku was actually a GODDAMN ALIEN.
Six year old me flipped his lid when he heard that
Masako
I just had a moment of clarity about the Saiyans of Universe 6 and a theory about them.
We know that unlike their Universe 7 counterparts these Saiyans although still a warrior race aren't as blood thirsty as the Saiyans we know. They also form most of them seem to be shorter and not as muscular, in addition they don't have the signature tail that is iconic for Saiyans which means they do not have the ability to transform into the mighty Ozaroo on a full moon. Where could have it gone? Well it comes down to a difference in evolution for the Saiyans from this video. The theory of Saiyans being more of a homogeneous tribe of humanoid beings that took over. From there the evolutionary timeline could have split as the original Planet of Sadala is still around in Universe 6 unlike in 7 where it was destroyed in the internal conflict. Instead of destroying the other the two races could have crossbred to make a new form of Saiyan race. That and also no Freeza to the enslave the race caused this new Saiyan to thrive.
I think of this because of our own genetic structure as a race. We are in fact Homo- sapiens, modern humans but we do infact have Neanderthal DNA in our genetic code. And if you think about it according to the history video about Age 720 after the extinction of the Tuffles, the Saiyans quickly evolved from primitive warriors to using technology and establishing a monarchy. Saiyans are quite smart after all when it comes to battle. With the right conditions they could adapt and see that cross breeding with the other race could be beneficial. The power of the Saiyan with more ingenuity would be an amazing warrior as we see with Son Gohan.
I did not know that planet Plant was destroyed in Age 737. So that means that Vegeta was only 5 when his planet was destroyed: in the flashbacks he looked a bit older, about 10. And so when Raditz lands on Earth, it was 24 years since the destruction of planet Plant (I just looked it up on Dragonball Wikia).
Vegeta is a title, eh? That's actually kind of cool, it reminds me of how in Ancient Rome, "Caesar" was once a man, but later it became a Title. Even when Rome finally fell in 1453, the man that conquered them, Mehmed II, declared himself "Kayser-i Rum" (Caesar of the Romans) and other nations like Germany and Russia used the name for *their* leaders, with Kaiser and Czar, respectively.
My personal retcon of the deity described by King Kai is Beerus. The Saiyans had heard of him by then, and certainly the Kais knew. King Kai just didn't want to touch on the subject, since perhaps he was the one who could have begged Beerus to stop the space-faring savages. Beerus would have to respond if the Kais were in danger.
Also, the Arcosians could have been middlemen. Recruiting soldiers, finding traders and buyers, gathering interesting technology and intel, selling people into slavery, deciding which planets to wipe clean... and of course writing contracts. You can't make decisions that ruin unsuspecting peoples' lives without having all the paperwork on file.
you upload consistently great content
King Vegeta had an IQ of 300, the same as the tuffles, so king Vegeta was the one to figure everything out
PrinceDraco 101
Cool didn't know that.
What if king Kai KNEW freiza did it but he also knows how goku is so he lied to keep goku away from freiza
i love Dragonball Discussions
Masako! You should do a review of the Beckett Dragonball z magazines from back in the day. Fantastic publication that was all about dbz
I didn't realise the saiyan empire was so short lived, makes the fact that more super saiyans didn't appear more understandable.
I'd watched at least two English dubs of the original run of Dragon Ball on VHS before Z came out on TV over here so for me Goku turning out to be an alien was still a pretty big curveball. Of course I was also confused by the idea that the hour long pilot about the Blood Rubies and the actual series proper with Pilaf as the antagonist weren't canon to each other back then.
Though my earliest memory of watching a full episode started with Z, but I did have an early memory of Goku breaking through the glass ceiling in Pilaf's castle at the end of the first season of Dragon Ball. This put a HUGE smile on my face when I bought the first season in the Ocean Dub bck in high school and got through it.
It's good that he writes it like this because if he writes in something that has meaning a year down the road you being the loop of something wondering when the change is going to happen because you already know a year or two years prior and then that leads to fans wondering is this going to happen when does this finally take place, so it's best to have the audience assume one thing and when the unthinkable finally happens you weren't waiting years for it to take place
Thank you!! I needed this!! 😍
I think King Kai lying about how Planet Vegeta got destroyed it was so that Goku wouldn't try & fight Frieza before it was his time...
I like how you bring up the Arcosians, and I'm one of those people who believes that the Arcosians are what Frieza's race is called, even though it's not official. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Beerus' involvement in the destruction of Planet Vegeta though, since that retcon was a small part of it.
A nation-state where everyone is a soldier, war is a business, status is determined by skill and the leader is the biggest badass around? Planet Vegeta was Outer Heaven.
You didn't mention Beerus's role in Vegeta's destruction.. Isn't that a MAJOR oversight?
What I learned from this is that you should never put your vegetables in the freezer or they will rebel.
You know it's time to get a new freezer when it blows up all your vegetables.
Pre-age 238, the Legendary Super Sayian appears. Following what the second trailer for the new Dragon Ball Super movie tells us, 970 years later, Broly and Goku and Vegeta are born. That's roughly 1000 years. How cool.
I remember when I first got into the series. A neighbor was watching it when I came over. It was when they were on Namak. I began following it when Goku was fighting Frieza.
01:37 Oh my God. Toriyama is like, my hero now thanks to that statement.
Abridged Piccolo still wished he was a Demon.... Just Saiyan.
You should do an episode on "what if someone healed Goku's head injury with the dragon balls". Would he change a lot? Would he struggle with his Saiyan self overcoming his gentle Earthly self?
So our Vegeta isn't Vegeta II but more like Vegeta XLIV? You'd think that the name Vegeta would just become generic for ruler like the name Caesar did.
Officially, our Vegeta (as in Goku's rival,) would have been Vegeta IV and his father was Vegeta III
love your channel and your content keep it up dude
thank you for or putting the work into this it is a great topic and wonderful video
4:07 im willing to go with red herring, Toriyama seems the kinda guy to keep us on our toes if he actually GETS an idea
bro love your videos and you explain things very well
Perhaps the Saiyans as we know them were the warrior breed of a greater species on their home planet (maybe even genetically altered super soldiers) one that had advanced technology (obviously) but then, either by chance or as a result of further genetic experimentation, the legendary super Saiyan decimated that entire species! Maybe a few survived and sent the remaining Saiyans off in a spaceship before dying off, or their technology wasn't all destroyed and the Saiyans used it themselves (like on planet Plant).
I always thought (i.e. my Headcannon) Saiyans were a genetically modified offshoot of humans that were purposefully created by an ancient alien race (probably Frieza's) to be warriors/ a policing force. Kinda like the Peacekeepers in Farscape. Everything else happened afterwards.
I always thought the same thing
you know, with beerus's involvement the whole "God of planet vegeta called down destruction to destray the saiyans planet" story technically makes sense again. If we a assume that beerus was considered the kami of planet vegeta.
The Saiyans in King Vegeta's Army should be giving names.
3:53 have you ever heard about unreliable narrator?
They were talking about things they didn’t know, so their version of the story could have been wrong and still would have made perfect sense for the plot
Theory: what if there were Saiyans in universes 13-18. and let's say they were more evolved and advanced, for example, they were born with golden hair, inhereting SSJ as a base form(could be possible).my theory is that the Saiyans in these universes became genetically superior through full breeding(full-blooded/full-blooded), granting the Saiyans natural-born potential to unlock god ki, therefore becoming the strongest race amongst the six erased verses. it could be very probable that at some point that the Saiyans, in general, became too strong and were revered, as gods. this of course would anger the true gods, supreme kais, and especially the gods of destruction, causing an all out war amongst gods and Saiyan gods. since the omni king erased These six universes due to a bad mood, it is possible that the Saiyans became strong to a point where the Angels had to step in, and with that alone, grand priest would be upset that the Angels were breaking their code, which paired with multiversal chaos would be enough to get Zeno so upset, that he would rather just "erase all".
sounds like a crazy theory, I know. but with time breaker bardock ssg,this could all be possible
I liked it better when there was no Sadla, when the Saiyans and Tuffles both shared the same home world of Plant. The whole notion of them leaving their planet on a space ship they doesn't make sense if you consider the other race they were coexisting with wasn't so different from the Saiyans technologically speaking. I even remember in the Ocean Dub how King Kai explains that the Saiyans built themselves the space ship, but on Plant.
Okay.. can you please remake this video, and then put in BEERUS'S ROLE IN TELLING FRIEZA TO BLOW UP THE PLANET BECAUSE KING VEGETA DIDN'T GIVE HIM THE UNIVERSE'S MOST COMFORTABLE PILLOW!????
Yo! Fair point, but those are retcons....
MasakoX was stating the official History of the Saiyans as of 1995 from the Guide Books. At that time, Dragon Ball Super was most likely no where in Toriyama thoughts for atleast 10 years.
So this History is valid for THIS video.
But Hey, maybe a two parter History of the Saiyans, Super Edition.
That would be nice. There's plenty of added stuff thanks to the Super addition to the history. Though there might not be enough information for an entire "Super Edition" since there's tons of stuff on Saiyans for Super that just weren't properly explained. Like the original Super Saiyan God, when did that happen? Or the origins and history of the Saiyans from Universe 6, is Cabba the first Super Saiyan? And is Female Broly Cabba's Wife? (forgive me for that last one, it's a theory I have, that Cabba taught his wife how to use SSJ, and she ended up being far more powerful than most of the Saiyans on Sadala.)
Mikoto Misaka , Fair points made.
The FemBroly theory is not that far fetched. I think it's funny. Cabba 1st Super Saiyan of U6. His Girl does it too, but goes Legendary. Really cool.
But I am more on the theory that Fem Broly is the Princess of Planet Salda, and that she already could go SSJ. But more than lilkely, we'l both be wrong. And That's okay.
Nice theory of yours too. But in Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, and Universe 6 arch, it's implied that Cabba is a bit of the royal stock. The Galick Gun for instance is a royal Saiyan technique (or at least that's what fans believe). For all we know, both our theories could be correct. However, I doubt the part about her already being able to go SSJ. Remember, Cabba was supposed to be the best Saiyan Warrior of Universe 6 according to Champa's standards (and he had some pretty high standards when he told Vados to find people.) And Cabba said himself that he'd never even heard of the Super Saiyan transformation before. Of course, if Cabba isn't a prince and FemBroly is, then it could be a royal secret, but it doesn't seem likely that anybody on Sadala knew what Super Saiyan was until Cabba came back from the Universe Tournament speaking the SSJ scriptures of Master Vegeta like a prophet who just returned from the mount. (imagine that the Universe 6 Saiyans start worshipping Vegeta XD)
I actually have another theory, that Universe 6 and 7 will be forced to form a temporary alliance with each other (cause Beerus DOES care slightly for his brother, enough to bring back his Earth anyways, and I can't imagine Cabba being able to fight Vegeta knowing that if he wins, Vegeta and his Universe will be destroyed). It would explain why so many Universe 6 characters got the main spotlight in the intro theme.
I think King Kai's story to Goku about the Saiyans might have just been him lying to keep Goku from knowing about Frieza at a time he would be nowhere near strong enough to challenge him.
"Hey,that guy's still alive...maybe i could use him." yeah toriyama,how About LUNCH?!She's still alive...maybe you could Use Her!
masako love your show
MasakoX what would you think of a side story following universe 6 saiyans particularly Cabba
I like to think the divergence point for Universe 6 Saiyans is the conflict with the Tuffles , maybe instead of trying to wipe eachother out they joined hands and eventually became on race
That moment when you realise death is nothing to be afraid of when you're in Dragon Ball lmao.
Hey Masako, I have a question/ what if Idea. The Piccolo from Z is Jr., right? Sr. put his life force into Jr. which is why Kami is still alive. Would it be possible to bring back Piccolo Sr. with the dragonballs? I ask because he no longer has a "life force" to bring back. If he did return, could he fuse with Jr, and would that create a power boost similar to the fuse with Kami? If this multi fusion happened, could it take Mr. Perfect Cell?
I would love to know your thoughts on this.
The ‘look! Aliens!’ thing with Major Metallitron from Dragon Ball is actually a reference to the movie ‘Aliens’.
+MasakoX using Toriyama's style of back-filling and using past stuff to fix up the story allow me to give a shot at it.
1) Raditz was under the impression that a meteor had blown up his world because of Freeza propaganda. As that was the official story. Like 9/11 being committed by some guys crashing a plane into buildings. XP Although he and the rest of the remaining saiyan gang were always skeptical.
2) King Kai was aware of Beerus (The guardian) conspiring freeza (The one who brought down 'the meteor') or he just saw the Super Nova and presumed it was a meteor that struck it. Perhaps being fully aware of what happened and intentionally smudging the truth so Goku wouldn't go sniffing around Freeza or Beerus.
There we go, all cleaned up with minimal effort!
4:19 A plausible reason why King Kai told Goku about that not at all true story about his race was to keep him from knowing about Freeza. King Kai most likely knew that he would have attempting to fight him. He pleaded with Goku to stay away from Freeza after he found out. King Kai also used the same method to keep him from taking on Beerus.