SRAM FORCE leading the way, we all need to catch up
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- We take a closer look at the huge array of choices available from SRAM when it comes to building your dream road, gravel or mountain bike. We ask, why we still buy off the peg bikes, when the is such an abundance of choice.
In this video we feature:
@look_cycle 765 Optimum, (not mine this time)
TIME ADHX
@WeraToolRebels Torque Wrenches.
@Hambini Bottom Bracket installation
@ffwdwheels Ryot 44 
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I would prefer to ride shimano myself, but having just built an etap bike for a friend, SRAM is BLISS for home mechanics. everything is so clear, so intuitive. very mechanic friendly compared to the many details that frustrate me installing shimano
Yes totally agree with on Sram but in the end ride what you like. My point was Shimano need to up their game on the total customer experience or decide if they are just a OEM supplier.
@@deanf2259The huge majority of Shimano orders are OEM. Only a few customers build or upgrade their bikes.
Same. XTR man for life - and then I just installed SRAM Rival AXS on my new gravel frame set. Just WOW.
I genuinely think you are the best bike mechanic on RUclips. When I am watching your videos I always learn something that I would have a hard time finding anywhere else on the internet. Yourself, Peak torque, hambini, Dylan Johnson, China cycling are the channels to be when I comes to worth while bike knowledge. I know I commented last week on the 10k post but keep up the great work. This channel is going to explode in the next few years. I could see it surpassing 100k subscribers.
Thanks Sean ☺️
Totally agree with this, you are a natural presenter! Why do we buy off the peg when there is so much choice? Because there is so much choice! We need someone with the knowledge and experience to navigate the custom bike minefield- most of us don't have a clue, we just want to ride a comfortable bike that gets us to our destination quickly, safely and enjoyably. It is about having fun not stressing about rear mech, bottom brackets etc. When it comes to getting my next bike I will pay you a visit...
Good choices,have a look at a Reginald Scott as well.
The ending was special and inspiring.
SRAM's documentation is the best I have ever seen as a home mechanic. While Giant does not even provide any bike-specific documentation for my bike.
SRAM seem to be the groupset company with the most well thought-out product lines, the most clear compatability, and are give customers what they want. I really appreciate that.
That's a stunning build 😍
Thanks for the awesome video great so informative you're one the best out there..
Thank you
Loving this build,. V v nice
What a great video one of your best 👌
Thank you Mark.
Looks like a really nice build Paul,lots of options.
The shifters have the same adjustments as Campag Record/Super Record now which has 11-34 but lacks some of the other options.
The new owner should be a happy chappy soon.
Brilliant job, definitely going to get yous to build be one when I’ve saved up 👌
Thank you.
Just one word EXCELLENCE .no other word needed.
🙏
Absolutely stunning bike!
Great video.
Thank you
Nice!
Genius. Seriously!
Thank you
Very happy that Sram has made AXS backward compatible with the older Red eTap 11s. This means I can upgrade to disk by just replacing levers and calipers with AXS. The new force levers have a much cleaner look than the previous generation.
Your Work of Art. Ha ha, ashamed to say my bike lives on the wall in my house. Only downside is keeping it spotless as I ride approx 330 days a year.
Nice.
Nice video. I'm just about to get a sram force group set to hopefully make things a tad easier on my hands in ultra races. Found my mechanical groupset isn't good for the nerves in my hands, especially on the front mech shift.
Were building TT bike for friend, blips didn't arrvive in time so we just put gx axs shifters instead, works like a dream. :D
Oh. Good idea.
Hi! Great video!
I really understand the use of a wide spindle for the 2x set-up on a gravel. I wonder if I would need a wide 1x crankset over a normal size one, to build a mullet set-up . Do you think it would affect the chain-line too much?
If your frame has both it should be fine for each. Certain frames can only have the road wide cranks.
Check and measure the frame and consult the SRAM frame fit specifications. Your cranks might hit the chain stays.
177.5mm yesss!
16:24 OMG , I left this video running in the background and went to FFWD to see what's new in their outlet section for my VITUS EVO but nothing rim brake so looked at normal priced wheels and seen these RYOTS and as I went looking for what Shimano is doing I heard you mentioned FFWD........................................so the Dutch wheels for my VITUS it is !!! A sign from above
You mean you weren’t paying full attention and ended up buying FFWD wheels through subliminal messages 😳
@@Mapdec 😂😂😂 I don’t need much encouragement to buy from that brand, I had a set of F6R with the aluminium brake track and they were fantastic solid wheels, highly recommended!!!
Very informative as usual,love how tidy and clean the workshop always is-definitely one way to spot a pro!question why gt85 not wd40 just cause it’s cheaper ? Or any other reason? 🙂thanks
The workshop downstairs is a different story ☺️. Think I was using that GT85 to clean off some sticker residue. We don’t tend to use it much. We keep WD40 downstairs as a water dispersion. Gt85 usually hanging around, it has its uses.
Nice build. Are the crank arms still even from each chain stays when putting a spacer on only one side?
Yeah. Remember there is a preload nut on the NDS
You always see a Sram bb spining really stiff in Y tube. This bb spins so nice!
New Force AXS uses the same main shifter body as the Rival, so they got rid of contact point adjustment (which really didn't work well IME).
Also, for the BB was a spacer installed on the DS before the initial install? The SRAM Dub BB install chart shows that a 2.5mm spacer is needed for the regular Dub crankarms with a traditional road-width bottom bracket shell and cups. So the spacer added later should have been included from the outset if none was initially installed.
Nice vid tho, keep up the solid content
I know. That’s why I said Hambini should supply one.
Question: rim brake caliper adjustment lever/cam knob or whatever you want to call it. I see so many riders with this in the open position and cable tensioned that way. Shouldn't it be tensioned closed unless you have to take the wheel out to give it clearance? Pet peeve of mine when I'm looking down at the person's frame in front of me.
You are seeing this more and more as riders are trying to squeeze in wider wheels.
Just discovered your channel. Awesome work. As I'm looking for a new bike myself how much roughly would a build like this cost please.
Just shy of 6k
What model of Deda stem is it? Does it integrate nicely with the steerer spacers? Looking for a lighter option to replace quite heavy LS3.
In the vid it’s just for bike fitting. LS 3 stem on the way.
Another super looking machine👏 What did you torque the T47 BB at? Thanks for the info on the BB, was something I’d been thinking about as to how to instal mine. What would your recommendation be as to a set of Carbon bars, would be nice to have your take on this.😊 Keep the content coming👌
Thank you. It’s in the vid, more importantly its in the instructions 👍
Oh carbon bars. Saves weight, aero bars save watts. Lots of them flex in an anoying way. I personally prefer alu for rigidity and confidence
Have you have any problems with chain drop on recent AXS builds? I'm looking at the new Force, but a couple of clubmates had issues with seemingly-incurable FD woes on the first version of this groupset...
No, but that said it’s very easy to set this up without using the limit screws. A mechanic doing quick assembly would easily overlook it because the gears would work well in the workstand. It’s an easy fix.
I run the 43/30 wide option originally with the 10/36 cassette but I changed to using a Shimano 11/34 as they cheaper to replace. Also I didn't really need a 36 upper socket (34 is so close anyway). With the Shimano 11/34 if gives me a 14 sprocket between the 13 & 15 over the Sram 10/36, which I find more usable to me than a 10. Which is just too big for me, who is going to use a 10 on gravel? The complete Look bike is gorgeous.
Good Info Dean. Thanks.
I made a close ratio for gravel. 14-32 cassette from the 11-32 but replace the 11 and 13 with 14 and 15 from the Jr. Cassette. Very usable for gravel with 46/30 rings.
This bike is so beautiful- can you do a handover video with the bike fit ?
Umm. It’s difficult. We don’t get much time, and not really something a customer would be comfortable with.
Next drivetrain build is hoping to afford force for the all the choice features with setup and use. If not rival.
Rival is superb. About the only difference is heavier cranks and less brake adjustment.
I'm a big fan of the Force/Eagle mullet setup. I do wish there were more chain options, for non GX/Eagle rear mechs. I have found that KMC and such don't work as well as the SRAM flat top if you are running the Force/Rival/Red derailleurs, although the GX/Eagle don't seem to be as picky. This is unfortunate as I like blingy chains and SRAM rainbow chain is unobtainium.
Yes, it is quite surprising that KMC, connex etc haven’t got to eagle stuff quite yet.
Have you tried YBN?
@@TenSapphires No, but I will look them up. I've been a pretty hardcore KMC fan and was really disappointed their chain didn't work as advertised.
Is there a SRAM Force AXS D2 groupset build kit (package of levers, hoses, calipers, discs, deraileurs, battery & charger) like there is for D1?
Yes. I just don’t think it is in stock yet.
I really like this channel, informative and very well presented. Do you have any experience of fitting a Rotor crankset with their own version of compatible AXS flat top chain rings, in combination with the Force group set? Also, is the SRAM brake bleed process really that much easier than Shimano’s? Nice to see a bike shop using quality tools such as Wera.
Thank you. I can’t comment on the rotor/AXS sorry. I just haven’t come across it yet. All brakes are pretty easy these days, especially if you use the brands own bleed kit and follow the instructions exactly. All systems can get that awkward last air bubble trapped somewhere. Sram is less tolerant of a bodged job, Shimano is more forgiving
What is the size of the frame? How much does it weight in this configuration ?
I’m using rival 43/30 crankset with a standard DUB crank rather than wide. Works fine.
Ah. Did you just buy the chain rings separately. Many folk will find that the braze on hanger does not go low enough. Depends on the bike.
@@Mapdec Front mech is at the bottom of the slot on my BMC Roadmachine. I use 43/30 for long days in the mountains.
Hi. Lovely build. With gravel i guess the factoes matter for the rider. But I was curious why go with the RYOTT 44 if they only have 21mm internal rim spacing. Wouldnt one want to go with something wider for gravel? Thanks for feedback.
This is a road bike, running 30mm tyres. 👍
@@Mapdec Ahh makes sense! . Thanks for the vid it is extremely helpful. I appreciate your feedback as well
Coming from target shooting background, I must say nice to have extra adjustments, but - first - they are never enough, you always strive for something extra and - foremost - nothing beats just having a solid grip. And that's where my 7,5 palms with bony fingers have questions to pretty much all hydraulic groupsets.
Lovely bike.
No grease when installing the bb?
Sram looks good but the cost of parts eg. cassettes... cost a fortune compared to shimano
Grease was discussed 👍.
Force is more similar to Dura Ace than Ultegra, so prices pretty similar. Red is another level.
I’m having an issue with my new DUB left crank power meter where it reports non-0 cadence and power numbers when coasting occasionally, have you encountered this?
Hey James. No, but have you used the AXS to reset and did you calibrate from your head unit?
@@Mapdec Yeah, I've recalibrated in the app and my wahoo, and reinstalled - issue persists. I contacted Sram, they said reset it by leaving the battery out of the sled overnight. Issue persisted. They said next step would be replacement
I have two quarqs dzero 11 speed. Can I use them with AXS 12 drivetrain? Or do they make 5 bolt 12 speed chainrings with 110 and 130mm BCD?
Depends on the spider you have. Sram don’t make compatible CR, but there are 3rd party options for some set ups.
@@Mapdec thank you. I found that praxis makes rings that would work with my setup.
I built up my masterpiece in 1979! I'm still riding it today. The lust to obtain more toys doesn't impress me. Upgrades happen, when appropriate after the components are proven or heckled as trash a few years on.
I feel there is a triggers broom follow up here.
I am confused am sure I asked Hambini if he did an AXS Dub BB and ge said no must have brought this in after my queries
Excuse the stupid question as someone looking to change from shimano mechanical to sram axs. What would be the right set up as someone who has compact chain set with 11/32 on the back what would be the axs 12 speed equivalent. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Do you want to extend the range? Which way? More lower gear for climbing? Or more higher gears for speed? Sram have a useful calculator on their website
@@Mapdec I was looking for the closest gear ratio as possible that I have now. I'll check their website. Cheers for that. 👍
Just a shame you are stuck with their flat top chains and gearing ratios. Ps Sram say you should use their AXS chainrings. I would say they are limited for racing unless you pay silly money for the rare larger ring setup with I think may only be available in the Red possibly powermeter only variety.
Will the T47 BB boost SRAM sales? Or is it just me. I dislike the idea of squeezing the bigger 30 mm spindle into a BB86, for example. For this reason I never considered SRAM and stuck with Shimano 24 mm spinldes.
I hope so. T47 and BB386 will be a big help to SRAM sales in the custom market.
I guess I would also experiment with a custom build if the local bike shops were half as capable and knowledgeable as you guys
Thats sad to hear, but thank you.
I've got the 1st gen Force AXS levers and they do have ports for blips. Kinda shitty that Sram downgraded the 2nd gen.
The new Force actually removed the pad contact adjustment feature.
Is SRAM Force AXS unchanged? New? Is there a difference between the new Force and Force AXS?
Subtle evolutions mostly. Mostly weight saving in the crank and 1 piece chainring.
Thanks for the the info and response. Has XPLR changed? Im enjoying your videos, keep up the good work.
Isnt the 12 speed Force groupset pretty heavy?
Compared to what? 9 speed record from 1995. Yes. Very. Compared to current 12s Dura Ace? About the same.
@@Mapdec I suppose 12 speed Ultegra would be the direct competitor.
That video aged like fine wine. Maybe give Jumbo Visma a call, if SRAM is really paying enough to nearly lose a Giro. Leading the with dropped chains and shitty ratios
Didn’t he still win? And wasn’t it his choice?
Are the Ffwd riot wheels hookless?
No
They have a hook. For hookless take a look at the Pacenti Pico
If sram got rid of the flat top chain and small chainrings, they would be hard to argue against. Theoretically sram-shimano hybrid is possible, but I've heard that in practice your mileage may vary
It depends on how much noise you consider tolerable
What’s the problem with the flat top chain? At least it looks way cooler than the normal ones.
@@SrFederico slower
@@invisiblescout6335 But that could hardly be caused by its form. That must be the inner construction.
@@SrFederico doesn't matterwhat the cause is, it's slower than the competition and the only one compatible with the rest of the groupset
I hope the actual weight of the new Force components will be weighed🙂
Probably not on this channel. It’s not something I care about too much.
@@Mapdec Too bad. Many followers of your channel would probably be interested in first-hand information.
@@bennop.2553 I don’t think it would change buying decisions. If Force was 32g heavier than Dura Ace, would it matter?
@@Mapdec I would be interested to know the weight for the new Force components.
Funnily the wireless blips are essentially disposable. The battery can’t be changed.
Had nothing but bad experiences with sram rival and previous force groupset. Never again. Shimano may not be perfect but it has more consistent quality.
Shame Scram didn't make force with a 160mm crankset.
So many wasted watts in SRAM AXS road, DUB BB, flat top chain, not to mention the 10 tooth cog on the cassette, having said that its so easy to build a bike with AXS
That’s quite a claim 😳
The chains consistently test slow but durable, and the mechanism of small cogs and chainrings being less efficient is well known. Every modern TT and Tri setup accounts for the latter.
@@willspower3 I mean, we're talking about a handful of watts. If you don't like it, just get a massive front ring and don't use the little sprockets - that's what we do in tri.
@David Wills Jumbo Visma doing pretty well on them...have won plenty of races and been on many podiums using their stuff. Legion in the US using them in the crit scene doing well on them. I think the few watts lost probably isnt that much of a thing for riders with good legs.
@@kellrockets101 A few watts is a few watts, but financial incentive/sponsorships will easily override it. Those teams are OP, so it likely won't matter much. Also: ruclips.net/video/Tsk3zAZyLaQ/видео.html
Rim brake??? No rim no go!!!
Leading the way in shite front dérailleurs?
For sure. Sram never mastered the mechanical front mech. The AXS ones are good though. Many mechanics fail to fit the frame brace though.
I had no issues installing a previous gen Force AXS front derailleur and have had zero issues not only getting it super dialed but haven't had any issues with dropped chains either so I'm kind of curious if poor installation/maintenance is what leads to people having issues. That being said, I would not claim that SRAM does it better than Shimano; just that a lot of people go a bit too hard on SRAM.
Electronic shifting? No thanks.
Okay it's wireless and I got options. And the powermeters are solid (although throw away which seems completely out of place in current times).
But objectively from all the different rations 80% are unnecessary and make no sense mechanical wise. Shifting is not as good as shimano, DOT fluid is just stupid and has no place on bicycle, SRAM bottom brackts and 30mm aluminium axles are shit, front mech is shit, flat top chains are shit, general quality is very mediocre and repairability and technical documentation lags behind. If SRAM is leading something, then it is questionable engineering and design philosophy
I’m not sure you listened to the part about PM. BB work well in everything except PF41. I’m not sure I agree about the design philosophy bit. I like that they are pushing things forward and listening to riders. Shimano has turned into a copy and refine 3 years later brand. Maybe SRAM is a little too early adopter for you.
@Mapdec Cycle Works as a mechanical engineer and cycling enthusiast myself, I have a very good understanding of the hole topic. Shimano is not without its flaws, but there is a reason why all cycling influencers with engineering backgrounds like peak torque, hambini, luescher etc are on Shimano. SRAM has some nice ideas but the fundamental engineering is just always questionable
Yeah. I can never understand their reasoning. Shimano cranks bend , corrode, and snap, their callipers disintegrate, levers have very little adjustment, chainrings warp. About the only issue with current SRAM is their crank axle. We just fix this with after market BB or spacers. Their XD freehub can crossthread if crack handed I guess. If you don’t clean up after bleeding brakes you can get corrosion of seals. I guess as a mechanic serving customers I see less issues with SRAM and those I have I can fix because they sell spares. Shimano are a lot more disposable parts. They break easily, they don’t sell service kits, but in balance their parts are cheaper. Engineers on RUclips tend to find faults that probably exist due to engineering in the costs and the home mechanic. Shimano is often favoured for its simplicity. SRAM has become quite complex recently and it baffles many people. It is complex because of the options they give. Good debate. I might get a podcast going about it.
@@Mapdec First of all, thanks for taking your time and answer even critical comments like mine!
Regarding the groupsets: it's definitely an interesting topic. As somebody without a fulltime job working on bikes, I obviously lack the day-to-day experiences with customer bikes that you have. On the other hand, with a proper engineering background it's very easy to spot engineering mistakes on paper. Some SRAM stuff is just fundamentally “school book wrong” in a way that even a first semester engineering student should know better. We don’t need to talk about the fact that Shimano also has some really obvious problems that beggar belief. But all in all, I think Shimano’s engineering is just objectively more solid and their drive train performance out on the road is better.
From my own experience as a home mechanic, I can also say that Shimano gave me way less problems over the years. Of course, my sample size is way smaller than yours, but with all due respect, practical experience can be misleading. Yeah, maybe Shimano is as bad if not worse than SRAM in the workshop?! But Shimano is also fitted on way more bikes, so of course they are more broken Shimano components in absolute numbers. It is also fitted on more entry level bikes, which get less serviced maybe?! It is fitted with more race bikes, which get abused more!?
From 18 world tour teams, 14 are on Shimano, jet Shimano only sponsors 6 I think. There is no team pro team which rides SRAM by choice and that's for a reason.
I think the world tour is a poor example because Shimano gives substantial discounts even if not a full sponsor. Personally I think both/all groupset brands make poor engineering choices. Not because they are bad engineers, but patents, cost, factory capacity and capability, shipping. It all has to be engineered around. You are right Shimano is fitted to more bikes. Except mid to high end. Sram seems to be dominant there in both Road, MTB and gravel now. I would say we see more AXS than Di2 now.
I'll stick to shimano never use sram every again customer service utter rubbish
Have you had better customer service from elsewhere?
@@Mapdec leave to say yes the company's that I have delt with have been very good as I think a bad post on social media can do a lot of damage nowadays
Why you calling it new?! This is rival with stickers and few “upgrades” which where left out on purpose before to differentiate from red and force. This is a rival groupset with new stickers and painted red crankset with a sram logo. This is a complete bullshit upgrade from sram. Levers can be adjusted on Rival as well. Why you claiming this something new?
Er…. Because it’s the latest release. Rival only has reach adjust. Glad you enjoyed the vid 👍
@@Mapdec I always enjoy your videos. :) just made me mad earlier comparing Enve Melee with my beloved Sl7, so I though I give you some shit… 😜
As far as this group-set, I understand why they relabeled already the best value groupset in the market, Roval Axs. There were too many people complaining about the size of SRAM force but couldn’t bare the idea of having rival on their sworks of dogma…
@@bendardania don’t be mad that enve copied a 2 year old bike and won bike of the year. I would be laughing my eyeballs off.
Meh. Electric gears are not even remotely interesting.
105 12 speed mechanical is the peak at the moment.
Leading the way? With toxic DOT fluid needing annual bleeds? And a bin full of broken parts at almost every bike shop?
Dude, full disclosure - are you on the take? Your hate of Campy vs your love of SRAM is alarming.
Haha. No. And I think you are filling in the gaps for yourself. This vid explains the vast options available that’s all. The campy vid says I was disappointed, that’s all. I don’t think either of those stretch to love or hate. We have a bin of broken Shimano stuff just the same. Brake levers you can’t economically service, Ultegra Calipers disintegrating, cranks splitting, blah blah. Chill dude. However a full vid on that Ekar 💩 is coming. Campag usually very good, but Ekar is just emperor new clothes.