New SRAM Force AXS: What's New // Details // Road Tested & SRAM Product Updates!
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- SRAM Force AXS receives a refresh for 2023 today with a number of refinements adopted from both their Red and Rival AXS groupsets. In this video I cover off a quick summary of what's new in the first few minutes before diving into more detail about the components and my hands-on experience after ~400kms with this new gear! 🚲👌🏼
Links:
SRAM Official: bit.ly/3fOhRrE
SRAM Force AXS on Amazon: amzn.to/3ICJq4M
SRAM eTAP Dual Battery Charger (Unofficial): amzn.to/3ENABnr
Video Index:
0:00 Intro
0:30 What's New Summary
2:06 New FORCE AXS
4:45 RED AXS Rainbow
4:51 4x eTAP Battery Charger
4:55 Component Weights
6:05 Hands-On Experience
6:50 Quick Takes - More Info
7:33 SRAM Force AXS Power Meter Review
8:45 Overall Summary
8:56 SRAM AXS Combination Shifting
10:49 SRAM AXS 1x vs 2x Rear Shifting Speeds
13:18 Wrap-Up
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Yea, I can see (from a programming standpoint) why the shifting would be delayed with combo shift enabled. You have to give time for the rider to tap both levers before making a shifting decision in software. I would think disabling the "combo shift" would help with the RD shifting speed because the software no longer needs to wait for the possible scenario where both levers are used at the same time.
It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I think my Sram Red shifts faster on the back when I just tap and let go of the shifter for the reason you gave. The shifter doesn't have to wait to see if I'm going for a front shift.
@@robertwhyte3435 Yea, that could certainly be the case. I don't know how quickly we can tap and release the shift lever but you can test how quickly you can press and release a spacebar on your keyboard and the average is about 7.8 presses/sec which equates to about 128 milliseconds.
Being that shift times (according to the video) are 100 milliseconds, at a maximum, I would assume they are only looking at the off-to-on transition of the signal from the lever. If that's the case, then how quickly you tap and release shouldn't matter (since it would be longer than the 100ms anyway).
@@brent4adv It could be that I'm setting the start time of my wait for the shift at the time I let go instead of the time I push the lever. When I do it that way though, I don't press and release, I sweep through the lever so as soon as the lever hits the stop my finger slips off.
@@robertwhyte3435 Yea, there is also the scenario where you enable multishift so that you can hold the lever and shift multiple cogs. I think you can set this function to one cog only which means it doesn't look at the release of the lever. So not only does the software need to look for both levers to operate but it also needs to make sure you're not doing a multishift.
So you press and hold the right lever; it waits for XXms for the other lever; if the other lever is not pressed within that delay it starts moving the derailleur.
An interesting test would be to turn off multishift and hold the right lever. Does it shift without releasing the lever? If so then there's our answer.
@@brent4adv If you don't release the lever, it will shift the number of shifts you've programmed in. I've done that and the shifter seems to wait until it knows you're not going push the other lever for a front shift before it signals the shift.
My thinking with the tap was, that if you start the signal and the signal ends, then the system should stop waiting for the other shifter and just shift. Hence the sweep shift.
Always enjoy your content. So often it's exactly what I need and want to hear about what's going on. Thank you so much!
Pretty cool about the tiny buttons for FD actuating! I only have AXS on 1x setups right now. Rear shifting is VERY fast (AXS RD, Wolf Tooth chainring, KMC chain and 12s Ultegra cassette).
Love it as usual Shane, especially jumping down the rabbit hole on 1x
It's the combo action button being enabled on the primary shifters that causes additional latency before a rear shift commences. I have the combo action unassigned on the primary shifters and have enhanced sequential mode on my crit bike (which I usually disable with a single click of left paddle inner button). I usually just get around in the big ring, but can enable enhanced mode or just reach down and press the front mech if I want the small ring as I pull in for a coffee stop.
Sharp, precise, informative presentation; great stuff
I have 2021 AXS force and I have Ben caught out occasionally with the front shift on combo too.
Best Sram video on RUclips!!
Sram should integrate a chain catcher with their front derailleurs, that narrow chain is tough to get un stuck
I agree, mine came off during a slight incline and became stuck inside the front chainrings. I wasn’t as heavy I would be on my Ultegra roadie setup as it was still a new bike, but the chain shredded and had to be replaced.
Great report as usual. Trust Shan to spot some sneaky stuff ie RD change speed on 1x v’s 2x. Good find and look’n fwd to comparison with Shimano Di2 12 speed shifting
Two wireless buttons that need to be denounced and checked if they happen at the same time wirelessly = yes you need extra time to check if the other button comes in. If they ditched the left and right press for front derailleur and moved to a more traditional two button / paddle system they could avoid this delay. Or wires would shave about 20 - 50ms if it was hardwired to the derailleur.
yes please on the shifting speed comparison video but don't forget to add Campy for that extra level of cost!
Thanks for the Video, Shane. My LBS’ on Canada’s left coast are still waiting for AXS Wireless Shifter buttons. My order for the buttons is now over 1 year old. Dealers with stock (US, Ozzie and UK) can’t sell to Canadian addresses so I snookered. Big fail by SRAM.
The delay in rear shifting makes sense if they've programed the system to wait to see if there is a chord before initiating the single press.
If so then removing the chord by changing front shifts to an alternate button should also remove the delay, unless the chord delay is hard-coded.
How does the shift speed work when in syncroshift mode? So the system isn't looking for a chord?
Would be interesting to have the T type XX SL power meter reviewed sir. for the xc / enduro bunch!
thanks!!!!
Hey Shane, great video as always! Would you be able to do a video to see if you can use Shimano Cranks, cassette and chains with the SRAM AXS?? Given you have both Shimano and SRAM I think it should be fairly straight fwd. The reason I ask is I've been using the original SRAM Red eTap for around 5 years now with Shimano cranks, cassette and chains as with 11sp it makes no difference. I just find Shimano gearing is easier to source, clean, live with and it tends to be cheaper. I prefer the 24mm crank axle as I have a PF86 BB. I also like using an oval inner ring and having the option to mix and match inner and outer rings is a big plus.
A friend with the new Red AXS and had to get a new PM crank as their inner ring got worn, that is ludicrous! It's clearly a money maker. Also cleaning SRAM XDR cassettes is super hard as it's has some many nooks and cranny's plus the captive lock ring. And the 10t cogs are a waste of watts. More reasons to use Shimano cassettes!!
Power meter integrated into the chainrings are they nuts???
Yeah, stupid move to take the worst design feature of Red and trickle it down to their cheaper option...i really hope people vote with their wallet & also tell SRAM to f-off with their braindead shenanigans
Agreed. I'm okay with the single-piece chainrings, but integrating the power meter as well is just stupid - especially on their non-pro version!
As an uninformed. Does that mean that you have to replace the powermeter when you replace the chainring?
@@Waldgeist2k10 Yes
@@Jeppelelle thx. Sram is out… again.
The charger is definitely the most innovative product of the year
Figures, right after I upgraded a bike to axs, they drip the new version. I hate the lack of a rim brake option, however, since it all works with prior versions , I can keep my rim shifters and replace with the new stuff if needed. I do like the look of the chain rings though.
Force rim shifter prices are out of control.
@@billmaidment5623 down the line rim brake axs shifter prices will really be out of control. But here in Germany, where we are blessed with many big online retailers, stock is low but demand is low as well… I just purchased a red etap axs rim brake upgrade kit with shifter, derailleurs and batteries for 900€. Was kind of contemplating on wether prices would drop a bit more once the new Red gets launched, but didn’t want to risk missing out on the last rim brake shifter units.
Great summary video, thanks!
Would be interesting to see a comparision with Rival... Apart from the crankset, it seems most things have trickled-up from Rival. What are the reasons for going with Force instead of Rival then?
Happy days!
The new Force vs Rival comes down to weight and improved front derailleur.
Sadly unless they've changed the app/firmware you won't be able to un-assign the combo action to change chainrings and replace it with the blips. I tried to go down this line previously, and was told by SRAM that this wasn't possible (with either wired or wireless satellite shifters). Your only option would be to go full syncro.
SRAM offers Sequential Gear Shifting that you can set up on your phone app. Right hand, shifts up to the next ratio, Left hand shifts down a ratio. So One click can move both derailleurs.Holding down the right shifter will get you the fastest gear confusion. The opposite for the left shifter. No confusion here.
Terrific review as always! Important question-can the “combination action” front derailleur shifting be turned off and with “sequential” enhanced mode turned on, in essence achieving the “full synchro” setting on Shimano Di2? If yes, then this would eliminate any lag requirement for combination action enabling more rapid shifting (as observed with AXS 1X setups). Does this combination of settings achieve more rapid rear derailleur shifting on the SRAM AXS 2X setup? Thanks GPLama!
Looks like it would match the non sworks venge paint job perfectly, too bad they don’t make it anymore.
Any news on micro adjust on a per cog basis, more than the whole cassette? Digging the new chain!
No mention of that.
This video review is great. I’m just very curious on how to perform de % upscaling on the SRAM axs app to adjust the power meter % error gap.
You shouldn’t need to unless you can confirm the calibration is incorrect.
Yup. I own Shimano Di2 bikes but decided to put Rival AXS on an older rim frame with no internal routing provisions just to tinker. I'm no into SRAM. Coming from Di2, both the front and rear shifting on SRAM AXS is for sure slower. Noticeably. I have a mechanical R8000 group laying around as well and I can say for sure R8000 mechanical shifts faster than AXS. I'll be selling the AXS stuff asap.
Just disabled combo shift on my levers and put it on my wireless blips, will give it a test and see.
Update felt crisper no slow shits, might unpair the FD and confirm.
How did you go? Faster RD shifting?
@@pretend8r could be placebo but I felt like it was a crisper on the rear shifts, definitely have noticed random slow/delayed shifts with sram before.
Shifters look much better first off. Curious to know how long the PM holds charge.
Red looking chainrings. I guess that’s the only thing I like about it.
Running mechanical Force on my Planet-X EC130E and been thinking about upgrading to AXS. Still unsure whether it is worth it 🤔
Do you think a Rival left side power meter crank will fit into the new Force chainring?
Could I mount a new force axs gen2 chainring direct mount to my old force axs gen1 dzero quarq power meter?
On a side-note, How did the Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres perform??? ( I'm currently using Gp5000s TR with Vitorria Air liners)
Seems like Force basically got new make-up. Fortunately you didn't drop a chain (yet 😄). Too bad SRAM couldn't reduce the shifting latency, which would have been the best improvement, but at least they didn't increase prices. Or perhaps they just couldn't - a good sign for the industry as a whole?
So a setup with the prior generation XPLR and the separate spider PM (not direct-mount) is only 12g heavier because of the changes to the hoods, no other changes at all right? I got caught out buying exactly that two days before they launched sparkle pony.
Will you be doing a video on new Shimano CUES system and explain it and the impact on the road groupsets?
Not on the cards at this point.
I can't get my head around the direct mount chainrings/PM. How incredibly expensive and environmentally unfriendly
Any update on wireless blip use for RockShox Reverb AXS dropper post?
That's a no from SRAM. support.sram.com/hc/en-us/articles/6225013965211-Can-I-use-SRAM-eTap-AXS-Wireless-Blips-with-my-Reverb-AXS-seatpost-
Hi Shane. The front gears are 1 piece along with the powermeter. When you need to change these is it also buy a new powermeter?
if you still want a powermeter than Yes.
the chainring and meter is a combo unit.
you can get a new chainring without meter but you won't be able to get the powermeter out of the new Force chainring.
Isn't the delay with front derailleur a feature rather than a bug? Since switching front requires pressing 2 buttons at the same time, it's obvious that system must allow more time as a buffer since it's difficult to press 2 buttons in exactly same moment, especially when riding. Hence you get the slight delay which adjusts for "was it really one button, or was it one button followed by another".
Yes. It’s by design. I didn’t call it a bug.
Disappointing they didn't change FD design so that 2x would work with the XPLR cassettes. But when does Red come? We already saw the new GRX style levers on some Jumbo bikes.
The 1x restriction for xplr is related more to the rear derailleur than the front. The top pulley placement is like their eagle axs derailleur, so using 2x with it would be a no-go.
Love it when you can zap through power data sans rabbit holes. Certainly giving Shimano a run for their money now. Noticed certain bike companies putting SRAM Rival on their mid - lower end bikes instead of Shimano. Bucket list new 12spd road bike might just be going to the dark side. Is Combo shifting SRAMs version of synchro shifting like Di2?
SRAM have a version of Synchro that’s almost identical to Di2.
I'd say you're seeing less Shimano due to supply chain issues. Those are going away and no doubt shimano bike will be back.
How’d ya like the soloist? A little disappointed that sram didn’t do much in the shifting speed or the FD problem department.
The Soloist feels almost identical to my 2019 TCR. The only difference being when out of the saddle going full gas it's a little more stable.
Re: "Be sure to wax the chain to preserve the power meter crank..." Yes, I wax my chain every 300kms. SRAM mention their PowerLink needs to be used/closed only once so that could add up.
Already switched to the one piece chainring 2 years ago (red with force cranks) since the shifting with the two piece rings was always horrible and they creaked. Good that they fixed this but that’s the only real improvement I can see here…shifter hoods without buttons on-top is disappointing
A built-in blip on each lever would be a useful addition.
When there's a sentence that contains words "best", "SRAM" and "FD" in the same sentence, I smile.
Was there one in this video?
@@gplama no, because your information is objective and accurate!
@@gplama it was in one of the slides in SRAM's product preso
Is the XPLR Rear Deraillure updated as well?
Yep. It also comes in Sparkle Pony colours.
im sad to see the auxiliary ports go. I like the blip shifters but will never buy the battery powered kind unless they make the batteries replaceable. They really are trying to make a throw-away groupset.
Do you have any data on the Wide power meter (which seems to be the same as the Rival PMs)?
Not yet
If only SRAM could supply parts to existing customers without a 1 year wait for simple parts like a chain ring.
@shane - 1x powermeter - dual side or 1 side?
The spindle power meter is single sided.
Does it come with 2x WIDE option? Is the tyre cleareance of 2x WIDE still 45mm only?
There’s a wide FD, so that’d be a yes. Not sure on max tyre clearances.
Can't fault the look of the old one though - the black-on-black is pure sex appeal
Is the new force rear RD and cassette quieter that the old etap force tractor ?
Apparently so.
7:03 which chainring configuration is compatible with DZero power meter?
I'm trying to find a workaround to the integrated power/chainring that SRAM mysteriously increased in price to $600 after launch. Thanks for the great vid.
Following your post over on ESC discord. They’ve got you covered for answers there. 👌🏼
@@gplama Thanks! Did you happen to notice any tangible shifting difference between old and new Force front derailleurs?
@@richcole3931 Nope.
@@gplama Thanks. One particular Bike Radar unboxing said that shifting differences were noticable due to redesigned cage, but sounds like that might be a placebo effect.
Did you ever manage to get wireless blips to work the FD? I seen a post on Reddit where you said it can only be assigned to "change front" option rather than "FD Up" and "FD Down" and wondered if this is still the same. Getting a new bike with Force AXS and had said to put on a set of blips to almost have a Campagnolo type thumb shifter for FD but if it don't work I'll save the money, or spend it on something else.
The front shift logic is still a toggle... and can only be assigned to ONE blip. Every time I'm talking to my contacts at SRAM I tell them I'd like to see an advanced mode where people can assign UP and DOWN front shifting. It'd allow your exact configuration (which I also want). I suspect it'd help out a lot when people drop a chain and need to put the bike back into the 'big ring' to push the chain back on. At present if someone throws a chain on the inside when the FD is in the outer most position, changing the FD does sweet f*k all.... With Shimano front shift logic at least you can keep smashing the "BIG RING" button with one hand and hope for the best.
@@gplama Thanks Shane. Would have been nice to add at the start of a build but I'll hold off and if SRAM change this later I can add the blips when changing bartape.
friend, are you sure the power meter will be discarded after wearing out the chainring? seems rather insane to me. Isnt it like 400$? LOL
Can you install a force single side power meter to the old force?
That should work. The chainlines remain the same.
@@gplama thank you! I just checked. The only issue is having a mismatched crank arm
Sram just going downhill with this integrated power meter .
what's next disposable bikes ?
Is the SRAM Force AXS integrated power meter dual sided like the Red?
The spider version measures total power. The spindle version is left only.
@@gplama Thanks for the quick reply. Love your work. I and allot of other people really appreciate the content you provide. A+ grade stuff
SRAM Red XG-1290 Cassette Rainbow Colourway
£358
£358!
Similar to XX1 Rainbow I suspect.
No rim brake compatibility or button integration for controlling a bike computer?
No and no.
@@gplama missed opportunity especially on controlling computers.
The rainbow stickers looks like the ones I had on my plastic Transformer toys back in the 80's. Looks cheap.
SRAM Megatron!
No way in hell I would go for power meter integrated with chainrings. Unfortunately, it's likely gonna be pushed to consumers on retail bikes, for additional price, with no choice given.
Pm becomming e waste when the chainring is worn means no SRAM for me.
Not that I disagree, but SRAM is offering 50% off a new PM/Chainring with the exchange of the old worn set which they will then recycle. Plus, those chainrings do not wear easily.
Why would they not make a replaceable 1 piece double chainring?
@@nbarbieri1201 per SRAM, it is about maintaining stiffness. I could flip that question a bit, why can’t Shimano make a replaceable chainring that doesn’t shatter under power? Neither SRAM nor Shimano chainrings with power are within my budget but they seem to work for those that use them, with some exceptions.
Do the new hoods work with old Force?
Yep
@@gplama time to get comfy.
what are the new crank lengths ?
Nothing outlined from SRAM, so it’s safe to assume the same options as before.
Sizes are: 165mm, 167.5mm, 170mm, 172.5mm, 175mm, 177.5mm
"once the chainrings are worn" ...sram said they had 0.7% inquiries to replace worn red chainrings since its introduction..and why after all the complaining about it, they decide it was a moot point by now and the benefits far outweigh the critic's concerns.
Had a mate have his Red chainrings go bad, and he's meticulous with care. Less than a year old, waxed chains etc. They said end of life, had to buy new rings/power meter.
Great vid. Regarding the chainring shifting catching you off guard - I think a bit unfair for 2 reason. 1. Why not put it in syncro? It shifts for you. And 2. just clip in pedals, you fall once and learn. Can’t assume people won’t adapt.
And with that, if you’re in syncro, I wonder if that speeds up rear shifting as it wont need to know if you’re double pressing.
I see nothing unfair about discussing the operation of eTap… and my experience with it. I hope this adds value to my content and sets it apart from the standard coverage of bike tech you’ll see elsewhere. Has anyone else dug into the shift speeds and a potential option to speed it up?
@@gplama The bit about slower shifting was great. Good insight - appreciate it.
Meant the bit about being being caught off guard shifting to little ring accidentally. I’m gonna guess you won’t do it again bc you’ll just know which ring you’re in. Any new system requires people to adapt.
Could anyone tell me if this will work with 11 speed. My wheels are all 11 speed and I don’t want the bother or cost of changing over cassettes. Anyone?
No. You'll need to update the full drivetrain.
@@gplama Thanks for the reply Shane. That’s what I thought but a guy posted on RUclips saying it works fine. Last cog is a ghost shift. 🙈🙈🙈
I bought a new Evo rim brake with ultegra for 1000 euros. Cycling has gone mad.
Wonder if it’s time to pickup a red or old force, I am not a fan of the 80’s hologram
All deraulers restyling force, chainring red, leavers rival... What a mixshite
Ultegra is better if you don't include Shimano's power meter.
the whole integrated chain ring topic is ludicrous, a chain ring is a consumable item, a powermeter is not!
Dissapointed brakes didn't get improved, also RD needs some work compared to Shimano's. And the PM... Sram come on!
They said there was some work on the callipers/pistons but were extremely vague about it.... well... compared to all the raving about the sparkle pony colours.
So, does this mean the shifters can't have mechanical brakes at all? Poor form SRAM. Looks like Shimano 105 DI2 it is.
Rather than a multi-socket fast charger, they should make an internal frame battery with a wiring harness to go out to each unit. The number of batteries on some bikes is getting ridiculous (2x derailleur, 2x shocks, dropper post)
The whole point of SRAM wireless is WIRELESS!
@@trepidati0n533you could still have the shifting signal as wireless, but just having non-smart wires just for power. The convenience of having one battery would be nice.
I have the '22 version and its horrible..Slow, clunky, and every other ride I drop off the front chainring..Crap...Shouldve stuck with Ultegra di2
Life is short. Sell it and move on if it’s not working.
NO Rim brake Force AXS WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$120 for a battery charger. Criminal.
Pretty boring update tbh, but what can you accept anyway
Swapping out your power meter when chain rings are worn. Really SRAM? That is just a complete load of crap. I’ll stick with my trusty Ultegra.
Wear the chainring and swap the power meter? wtf? What a waste, I'm not even one those eco friendly freaks but what a waste.
This is rival 2.0. Aka new Force. Completely disappointed by sram. Embarrassing!
Why do you say that? Just throwing out random shit on the internet because? Best part is you probably not even remotely in the market for Force. And if you so disappointed with how shit Force is please get Red or go to shitmano. Thanks. Cheers
Yeh totally sucks
Another shitty modern day disc brake groupset.
What? No crack at the electronic shifting… or the front derailleur!? If you’re going to complain about a product you don’t like then there’s a few criteria you need to meet before shitting on discs there Froomy. 😉
@@gplama *yawn*
what about the force spindle powermeter? is it exactly the same as the rival? does it have the "6% under" issue as well?
No idea. If I can get a hold of one to test, I’ll test it.
@@gplama that would be awesome! But it's supposed to be the same on the force crank, isn't it?
@@hptator Yep.