I almost bought the anti matter industries folding thumb ledge, but then i thought, do i need it on every gun then? That's ridiculous. I appreciate this video! Thank uou for the references at the end
Various gunners have measured their split times by caliber, and have basically found that recoil doesn't affect split-times, up to a point. An experienced shooter can shoot 9mm, 22, and 380 at about the same speeds, but when they step up to 10mm or 45 their splits start to suffer. When you're shooting 9mm out of a full-size, steel frame gun, there's nothing to be gained from reducing the recoil further. But when you're shooting a 10mm out of a polymer frame, or a 45 out of a compact, you start to need that extra control. That's where thumb rests start to help.
For the active thumbs crowd (thumbs forward grip) it would seem to have the same effect if not more pronounced than the accelerator cuts/gas pedal cuts. That style grip is looking for somewhere for the support hand thumb to ride/press into-down. The passive thumbs crowd (thumbs out of the way grip) would see no difference with this or other cuts for the thumb to press into-ride. My first time being shown this type of grip I spent a few minutes looking at the cut for thumbs forward thinking well that’s useless now. On 1911, DS 1911, 2011 pistols for those who are slightly more into the fitment of the pistols. It should be noted that a “drop in” slide stop pin is not quite right. The fitment of that with the barrel link plays a decent role in the fitment of the barrel towards the rear, along with a few other details. Is it enough for most to notice, probably not. Yet for the price of some of these pistols and considering better fit and finish is something people brag about. One might want to make sure they are not giving away some of the fitment for a drop in part, when if done correctly things were fit to tight tolerances to begin with.
@@Uncleprepper1because it’s not needed on a gun that already has next to zero recoil. All it will do is start forcing shots high right. That and you should be fitting slide catch pins. Pin dia is vital for barrel link timing and barrel lockup
Good video. I was on the fence about one of these for a Canik Rival and didn't know if these were one of the "if we build it they will buy it" items and after watching the comparisons the thumb rest looks to be just that. I'll buy more ammo instead.
Tried it, used the Atlas GP on my XC. More trouble than it's worth. Felt better, but when I gripped with my left hand during my draw, I often drove it into the thumb safety and engaged it. Issue 2 , I like to get slide lock. That's nitpicky and if it actually helped my shoot better and didn't cause me to engage the safety, I'd live with it
My follow up shots were noticeably faster with a gas pedal. Got the picatinny mounted one from Tandemkross so I can use it or remove it with relative ease.
Best way to think about how to effectively use a thumbrest is as a rest. Not a leverage point to "control" recoil. Open shooters with thumbrests are either using them to consistently index or they like a very fast slide speed and a little leverage can help return the gun. For 9 minor guns practice is all you need, not what ever the instagram 2011 "experts" say you need. Great video and content!
I think it’s better to accept that recoil will happen and not worry about “controlling” it, and experiment with your grip to find a consistent return from recoil. There are guys achieving very high performance with thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs forward and anywhere in between, where they are running the gun almost as fast as the mechanical limit(approximately 0.10-0.13 split ). Open shooters need to make sure that their thumbs are clear of the slide racker though, so a rest helps keep them out of the danger zone. Like you mentioned, Most open shooters I’ve talked to simply use it as an index point. With more “normal “ guns, you have more room for experimentation. Find something that works for you, your hands and your gun, and then practice that until you do it every time without conscious effort. The one shot return drill is something I’ve found helpful in understanding recoil and how to “get past it”.
@hammerarmament I am very excited that there are gun RUclipsrs sharing this info! My hat is off to you. The hunt for flatness is a neat experiment but physics are physics! Recoil will happen and it's better to be actually good than look good for followers haha
@@hammerarmamentFYI, the mechanical limit on guns is way faster than a 0.10 split. No human can outrun a pistol not even Jerry Miculek. A Glock can go 1200rpm with full auto mods, a Beretta 93r can go similar. The slide, extraction, feeding, etc is happening at a 0.05 split. Anyone who says they're outrunning their pistol should post a video and train to be the next Jerry Miculek LOL
The antimatter wing sucks don’t get it especially if you have your grip down already. I had to change my grip with my support hand to make it work and it slowed me down and didn’t feel right at all!
Of the three guns in the video, the XC is undoubtedly the “softest” recoiling. But it should be noted that there are a lot of people who are able to get faster and more accurate splits than I can, with “worse” guns without the use of a compensator or thumb rest. And it’s all because they have their grip dialed in.
It's funny I just took the gas pedal off my p320 a couple days ago and shot the fastest accurate splits every hitting.17s I only left it on there because it cost money but it was detrimental
Love the assessment! I agree whole heartedly. As a Southpaw that style of ledge wouldn't help me anyway. Even if were on the proper side for my off hand, it is still a crutch. If you need to use another handgun it will likely not be there. These reasons and it creates a nightmare for holster makers! "Pussy pedal" LMFAO!
Yes. Trying to use force to fight against recoil , such as using a thumbrest or just muscling it back into place , will do this. It’s basically over correcting.
This whole "argument" over thumb rests is silly at best. Its like telling someone how they should like their steak cooked. To me, if a gun feels comfortable in your hand, chances are you're going to shoot it better. I have a few guns that came with a rest (CZ TSO,TSO2, and a Sig P226 X5 Legion) so they still have a factory slide stop, and the thumb rest fits the gun better than just throwing a aftermarket rest on.
I think the problem exists where people are being led to believe that it will give them a performance improvement. But it’s really not that cut and dry. It *may* lead to an improvement in recoil control, especially if you have a poorly developed grip. But it isn’t necessary and also comes with drawbacks. Comfort is certainly subjective but I don’t find that the rest was any more comfortable than not having it at all. More power to ya if you did. But it isn’t a given that it will be more comfortable or will give you better performance. Most people will be better off simply focusing on improving their grip fundamentals and spending more time practicing.
@@rockie071 nothing. There was a spam bot impersonating us a couple days ago, replying to every comment on every video. It should be purged now but for future reference, any giveaway/prize comment on RUclips is a scam. Don’t click or reply to them.
Need one? No. Yet, all world-class competition shooters have the fundamentals down to a science and STILL have a "gas pedal". There's even one for Taurus G3/Tactical/TORO ruclips.net/video/HyzdEY1S0DE/видео.html
I almost bought the anti matter industries folding thumb ledge, but then i thought, do i need it on every gun then? That's ridiculous. I appreciate this video! Thank uou for the references at the end
"anti-matter maxi-pads with wings" 24 hours after subscribing and I continue to be, not disappointed.
Various gunners have measured their split times by caliber, and have basically found that recoil doesn't affect split-times, up to a point. An experienced shooter can shoot 9mm, 22, and 380 at about the same speeds, but when they step up to 10mm or 45 their splits start to suffer.
When you're shooting 9mm out of a full-size, steel frame gun, there's nothing to be gained from reducing the recoil further. But when you're shooting a 10mm out of a polymer frame, or a 45 out of a compact, you start to need that extra control. That's where thumb rests start to help.
@@gg4224 solid point. That certainly seems logical. However, a thumb rest on a compact 45 seems rather illogical in practice. 🤣
For the active thumbs crowd (thumbs forward grip) it would seem to have the same effect if not more pronounced than the accelerator cuts/gas pedal cuts. That style grip is looking for somewhere for the support hand thumb to ride/press into-down.
The passive thumbs crowd (thumbs out of the way grip) would see no difference with this or other cuts for the thumb to press into-ride. My first time being shown this type of grip I spent a few minutes looking at the cut for thumbs forward thinking well that’s useless now.
On 1911, DS 1911, 2011 pistols for those who are slightly more into the fitment of the pistols. It should be noted that a “drop in” slide stop pin is not quite right. The fitment of that with the barrel link plays a decent role in the fitment of the barrel towards the rear, along with a few other details. Is it enough for most to notice, probably not. Yet for the price of some of these pistols and considering better fit and finish is something people brag about. One might want to make sure they are not giving away some of the fitment for a drop in part, when if done correctly things were fit to tight tolerances to begin with.
The heads exploding over these snake oil devices..
But skipz Gunz said I need it 😂
Well get it...What are you waiting for?
@@Uncleprepper1because it’s not needed on a gun that already has next to zero recoil.
All it will do is start forcing shots high right.
That and you should be fitting slide catch pins. Pin dia is vital for barrel link timing and barrel lockup
Keep at your channel. I find it MUCH better than 99% of all other gun channels. THANKS!
Thanks for the encouragement! More coming soon.
The ending is hilarious and thank you for being honest.
Great video!! Thank you.
Thanks for the mention...
Good video. I was on the fence about one of these for a Canik Rival and didn't know if these were one of the "if we build it they will buy it" items and after watching the comparisons the thumb rest looks to be just that. I'll buy more ammo instead.
Tried it, used the Atlas GP on my XC. More trouble than it's worth. Felt better, but when I gripped with my left hand during my draw, I often drove it into the thumb safety and engaged it. Issue 2 , I like to get slide lock. That's nitpicky and if it actually helped my shoot better and didn't cause me to engage the safety, I'd live with it
My follow up shots were noticeably faster with a gas pedal. Got the picatinny mounted one from Tandemkross so I can use it or remove it with relative ease.
I've been thinking about doing this to my C2. But it came down to my EDC needs. I think more training is better.
Training more is the correct answer, for sure.
Best way to think about how to effectively use a thumbrest is as a rest. Not a leverage point to "control" recoil. Open shooters with thumbrests are either using them to consistently index or they like a very fast slide speed and a little leverage can help return the gun. For 9 minor guns practice is all you need, not what ever the instagram 2011 "experts" say you need. Great video and content!
I think it’s better to accept that recoil will happen and not worry about “controlling” it, and experiment with your grip to find a consistent return from recoil. There are guys achieving very high performance with thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs forward and anywhere in between, where they are running the gun almost as fast as the mechanical limit(approximately 0.10-0.13 split ). Open shooters need to make sure that their thumbs are clear of the slide racker though, so a rest helps keep them out of the danger zone. Like you mentioned, Most open shooters I’ve talked to simply use it as an index point.
With more “normal “ guns, you have more room for experimentation. Find something that works for you, your hands and your gun, and then practice that until you do it every time without conscious effort.
The one shot return drill is something I’ve found helpful in understanding recoil and how to “get past it”.
@hammerarmament I am very excited that there are gun RUclipsrs sharing this info! My hat is off to you. The hunt for flatness is a neat experiment but physics are physics! Recoil will happen and it's better to be actually good than look good for followers haha
@@hammerarmamentFYI, the mechanical limit on guns is way faster than a 0.10 split. No human can outrun a pistol not even Jerry Miculek. A Glock can go 1200rpm with full auto mods, a Beretta 93r can go similar. The slide, extraction, feeding, etc is happening at a 0.05 split. Anyone who says they're outrunning their pistol should post a video and train to be the next Jerry Miculek LOL
The antimatter wing sucks don’t get it especially if you have your grip down already. I had to change my grip with my support hand to make it work and it slowed me down and didn’t feel right at all!
Seems like it would be almost impossible to make an AIWB holster for a pistol equipped with one of these.
Sadly, this has been requested more than once.
EXCELLENT !!!
@hammer-armament THANKS !!!
Yep.
It also helps that you’re shooting a staccato xc!
Of the three guns in the video, the XC is undoubtedly the “softest” recoiling. But it should be noted that there are a lot of people who are able to get faster and more accurate splits than I can, with “worse” guns without the use of a compensator or thumb rest. And it’s all because they have their grip dialed in.
It's funny I just took the gas pedal off my p320 a couple days ago and shot the fastest accurate splits every hitting.17s I only left it on there because it cost money but it was detrimental
This seems to be common. Either guys eventually take it off or simply leave it but don’t make an active effort to utilize it.
@@hammerarmament I left it on there because I paid for it for a long time
Yaaaaassss queen
Love the assessment! I agree whole heartedly.
As a Southpaw that style of ledge wouldn't help me anyway. Even if were on the proper side for my off hand, it is still a crutch. If you need to use another handgun it will likely not be there. These reasons and it creates a nightmare for holster makers!
"Pussy pedal" LMFAO!
No gas pedals for me. I mean, if you need something like that, most guys are running lights, well, theres your gas pedal.
With the thumb rest looks like the gun dips more
Yes. Trying to use force to fight against recoil , such as using a thumbrest or just muscling it back into place , will do this. It’s basically over correcting.
@hammerarmament and that proves your point you have to learn to shoot it with the thumb rest so would rather just keep learning without that
This whole "argument" over thumb rests is silly at best. Its like telling someone how they should like their steak cooked. To me, if a gun feels comfortable in your hand, chances are you're going to shoot it better. I have a few guns that came with a rest (CZ TSO,TSO2, and a Sig P226 X5 Legion) so they still have a factory slide stop, and the thumb rest fits the gun better than just throwing a aftermarket rest on.
I think the problem exists where people are being led to believe that it will give them a performance improvement. But it’s really not that cut and dry. It *may* lead to an improvement in recoil control, especially if you have a poorly developed grip. But it isn’t necessary and also comes with drawbacks.
Comfort is certainly subjective but I don’t find that the rest was any more comfortable than not having it at all. More power to ya if you did. But it isn’t a given that it will be more comfortable or will give you better performance.
Most people will be better off simply focusing on improving their grip fundamentals and spending more time practicing.
@@hammerarmament Cool, what do I win?
@@rockie071 nothing. There was a spam bot impersonating us a couple days ago, replying to every comment on every video. It should be purged now but for future reference, any giveaway/prize comment on RUclips is a scam. Don’t click or reply to them.
Need one? No. Yet, all world-class competition shooters have the fundamentals down to a science and STILL have a "gas pedal". There's even one for Taurus G3/Tactical/TORO ruclips.net/video/HyzdEY1S0DE/видео.html
@@davidsirmons “all” world class shooters?
Lost me with the profanity. I pray you turn your life over to Jesus and change your life.
Thank you brother. And I will pray that you learn to give up your sinful ways as well.
@@hammerarmament To what are you praying?
@@longleafpinesto your sinful ways, for all have sinned and fall short of glory of God. God bless.