I'm not so surprised as someone at the pitch meeting saying "Okay, but imagine if Palpatine came back from the dead" as I am with others going YEAH THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. What a freaking trainwreck. ~ Tim
Oh yes yes, because he had all those cloned bodies of him yes (which were the most stupid part of the EU and being canon doesn't make it better) and the cloned bodies remained in perfect condition for all these years yes right! BRILIANT!
Yes... this felt like a good response to the critisism. I think they tried... but they also weirdly succeded below is why, but first I disagree that Rey had no failures... she cant pass the course jedi training course... she doesnt believe in herself after TLJ which was the purpose of that movie to break down all our arrogant characters... i dont think Snoke and Kylo spoke the truth of Rey... it seemed like a manipulation attempt then, and it still does now. Rey tries to rescue chewie and she MISTAKENLY blows up the damn ship... unbeknownst to her chewie was on a second ship... she still felt the failure... she turn away from everyone and ran.... she went into hiding just like luke trying to burn everything when she couldn't live with killing Ben Solo in anger... she felt the same faliure as Anakin there... she is a mess... Poe is the same and it Takes LUKE and LANDO to talk sense into them... and Leia is connecting some wierd shit with KYLO... needs to bee seen a few times to truly understand im not sure if she had some crazy power to connect different spirits from the netherforce to some other person across the galaxy but she does so, and it claims her life... but only after Ben dies..... she is alive till that point but noone realize it. Her fate is tied with Ben Solo's and then there is Hayden Christensen which im sure was Superimposed briefly on Ben Solo as he died. There is some funky shit going on we dont know. And we are not meant to know at this point in time. Anyway let me get back to the reason why it weirdly succeded: Its funny the more i think about the whole as a picture, what is 1,2,3, 4,5,6, 7,8,9 I get this: The story of how Arrogance and Dealing in Absolute GOOD, leads to the dysfunction of democracy and the rise of the sith and fall of the jedi, the rule is hard and through struggle and hardships the galaxy overcomes its dark period of evil realising we fucked up returning to the path of the light, now struggling with itself to trust they can be better for the galaxy to dig out, and not be afraid to fail accepting the galaxy can be good again but only if the galaxy believes in itself then and only then can it come out stronger! In its seperate trilogies: 1-3: Being a wonderkid with pressure on everyone believes in and expect so much from, leads to a road into darkness. 4-6: Being a kid who has no seemingly reason to be extraordinary learns set of skills, appplies them on a journey of maturity, to come home victorious after many hardships. 7-9: Being the the wonderkid that noone expects anything from, and has little idea of why this apparant no body can hold so much greatness scars person, and results in selfdoubt because everyone else seems to doubt said person, to be given a boost of confidence and to finally believe in one self and accepting help to be brave enough to face life's hardships because they they see something they cant explain, and scares them. If you want to read SJW into any of that last bit you can! But i think its wrong. Or maybe it even strikes home for some haters. (not that there is anything wrong with that) But in a way social justice is at its core about not judging people based on predjucie and biggotry, so if you think that fits 7-9 its not wrong... but that is exactly why its a good trilogy. Not because its SJW dont get me wront, because its in line with different stories of growing up set in the setting reflecting the time each trilogy is made in. Stay with me here: So 4-6 is made in an era where kapitalism is you make your own luck go out there and do it! FIts Luke's arc, 1-3 is made in an era where the young new generation after the Cold War and collapse of the USSR sparks hope across the world, and puts pressure on people, that we still see the effect of in young adults today! Wonder girls who are just so laboursome.. untill they crack... 7-9: Everyone is really just trying to be their own selves... older people says wow wow wow stop... that is taking it too far fuck this SJW... younger people or SJW's are all fuck you... imma say OKAY BOOMER... and piss you off even more while i try to do my own thing... people who struggle to identify themselves or accept them selves for who they are... thats the theme of it! And its funny how much we all as fans only see the SJW as a bad piece of shit... and writing... but really we are looking into the mirror, we are watching ourselves... only some might find themselves on the dark side.. some on the light... but at the end of the day... the concious thing is about walking both paths! We might not like what we see in the mirror... but it is who we are. Maybe we should accept it! And remember whatever we see its only human!
@@ndf2719 Trevorrow would've focused on one weird, tiny aspect of the trilogy, meant to be a throwaway, and make it central to the conflict. Call it Indominus Rey.
I met a musician several years ago who was insistent that Rey was a Palpatine because her theme shared motifs with the emperor's theme. I suppose he'll feel quite vindicated now.
Socioling 33 very well planned out from the start of this trilogy. Not well planned out to the saga as a whole. I enjoyed it, no one in the theater booed a lot of people applauded
@@davidpiper667 Yeah that was a very good analysis, really shows how little of a plan they had and yet more proof of John Williams' genius, being able to prepare for such uncertainty
Vareesh Ordo I mean, the way they delivered the Rey is a Palpatine was bad. But Rey being a nobody was equally bad. They built it up so much over the two movies before basically going “lol jk, you thought this was something but it’s not, we tricked you, look how clever we are”
Isn't it because John Boyega left a script under his hotel bed and a housekeeper found it and auctioned it online? I did hear that it was bought back by someone with Disney... but I definitely would've read it beforehand and told everyone I knew
It's because no one cares, I'm pretty sure one of the staff of lucas film leaked it, to show off the bs. Remember it was leaked 4 months before the premier..
@@dougiejones5719 No, it was leaked before that happened. It was revised after, so I'm sure that did contribute or confirm the leaks but it was leaked months ago.
I personally see a pattern Endgame: as many problems as it had and the insane amount of people involved, don't remember leaks GoT S8: Horribly written rushed ending, leaked very early, before EP3 no oke belived in them, had to be fake TROS has had leaks up the vazuu for a long time, the movie even had a reference to the force diode, one of the earliest leaks that was part of some of the earliest cuts
It's crazy to me that I care so little about Star Wars that I'm watching a bunch of spoilers about it, and am more interested in what you have to say than actually seeing the movie. It's a weird feeling for a series I know so much about, and was so heavily invested in for such a long time.
Many of us are in the same boat. I have always avoided spoilers, but for star wars I just do not care one bit because it's such a joke and I have emotionally disconnected for the entire thing. I hope the new movie fails badly so that KK can finally be fired.
Same. I saw bad reviews and i decided im not gonna invest myself to this bs and get my heart broken so i forced myself to watch spoilers to prevent myself watching and supporting it
It failed to justify the existence of the trilogy and undermined the ending of ROTJ. What was the point of Anakin's sacrifice? Or the Chosen One prophecy? I was waiting for Artoo to a). do something, and b). restore ALL of Threepio's memories, prequels and all, and for that to be significant. How do you do an entire subplot about Threepio's memories in the final movie and miss that open goal?
I think people are focused on making their dislike work they actually ignored things they complain about that actually happened. R2D2 did restore C3P0s memory. And you are talking about the trilogy undermining Anikins journey.... That happened in the TLJ this movie had to fix the things that one broke.
@@donofman since it seems like you've either forgotten or never knew in the first place C-3PO had his memories erased at the end of RoTS. That's why he doesn't recognize Obi-Wan or the moisture farm or react to Luke's name.
@@sr71silver I didn't get what he was implying. I remember C3P0 getting his memory wiped. But I would say before A New Hope R2D2 and C3P0 weren't really a team like that...... I wouldn't see a reason for R2 to be backing up his memory.
In the end, this thing reads like bad fan fiction. They don't know how to create a hero, so she comes off as bland at best and a Mary Sue at worst. They don't know how to create a new villain, so the bring back the old one "but way cooler this time!" Honestly the biggest mistake they made was not having Abrams make all three movies. It still would've had plenty of problems, but it would have at least been a coherent story. Oh well, at least we have Rogue One and The Mandalorian to remind us of the good old days of Star Wars...
I feel the same way if Kennedy isn't shown the door and Farveu doesn't take over Lucasfilm I'm done with Disney StarWars. Although we're only 6 episodes in to the Madolorian it's been really uplifting compared to what we've got from Disney so far apart from Rogue one. Although it's done by Marvel guys it shows that they know what the fans want and the understand how to character and world build the StarWars way. Lastly it's devoid of Social agenda politics and a unchohesive narrative that destroyed this trilogy.
Ok so I didn't phrase what I said very well so I'll reiterate; when I said Abrams should have done all three, I was referring to him writing the entire story. I don't really care if he directed all three or not, but it should have at the very least followed his vision. It wouldn't be the best (this is the same guy who made LOST, after all) but it would have been passable, and not whatever the heck this thing has been.
The Mary Sue argument does not make sense but the fact that Disney do not plan out this Trilogy in advance is troubling. They should have given JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson the entire trilogy
Imagine if Return of the Jedi had Obi-Wan or Yoda reveal that Darth Vader was actually lying to Luke about being his father at the end of Empire Strikes Back. Immediately, that revelation at the end of Empire loses 90% of its impact and feels ultimately pointless. This is why I absolutely despise that they made Rey a Palpatine in this film. Whether or not you liked or disliked that this happened in TLJ, it should have honestly stayed at "they were nobody." Given that there's so many JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson interviews that give clear evidence that JJ had no actual plan for who Rey's parents were in TFA, I'm 100% convinced her being a Palpatine was solely as a response to TLJ haters, and I really hate that they gave in to that demand.
Kylo had the story arc. Rey's entire character arc was subsumed by his with a few crumbs to explain why she is relevant. - Poe's character was never supposed to live past TFA, but when he became a hit due to Oscar Issac's insane level of charm they had to scramble to give him something. - And poor Finn was kinda added on like a third wheel.
Meaningful character development going AWOL was the worst thing about the new trilogy. Bad fanfiction hist the nail not just because it is terrible but because the internal consistency of Star Wars is equally absent as character development. Rey never had the chance to struggle and grow. She just popped up as this force miracle child even though Anakin could not use the Force without years training proficiently. I honestly forgot about the other characters on the Resistance side. Kylo would have been interesting but his origin as a Sith was really dumb. Luke refused to kill Darth Vader, the second-most evil person in the recent history of the Star Wars Galaxy yet he tries to kill Kylo because of a bad dream? Come on...
One of the most interesting characters they had, and they wasted him and killed him off. They decided to unload the Skywalkers, they felt they needed to branch off the Universe with new and more diverse characters. Could not do that if they were still telling any of their stories.
I'm just going to say this, Finn could've been so good as he was in TFA, but TLJ completely forgot about his stormtrooper backstory and undermined his development. Then, TROS forgot he existed completely.
Heartbroken by this film. It teases many many awesome possibilities that they puzzlingly undercut in the most baffling ways. Too many new characters that didn’t contribute anything. The convenient ways things get solved. Not enough of what REALLY matters (rushed Kylo redemption, the Force Dyad being explained away in just a single conversation, rushed Rey-Ben resolution, final battle with Palps). Not to mention the many loose threads from TLJ they chose to ignore. It makes for a jarring watch, again. But at least TLJ was clear on what it’s delivering.
There were too many psych-out fake deaths to make me care about the stakes. - Chewie doesn’t die in the “other transport” that didn’t exist on screen - C-3PO doesn’t lose his memory permanently or for very long - Kylo is healed after being stabbed by a lightsaber - Kylo is flung off a cliff near the climax - Rey dies but doesn’t Poor Hux and Snap.
To be honest, JJ's not only ripping off entire plots, but now entire plot gaffes. Remember in Raiders when Marion "magically" switched trucks before the first exploded?
Alan Smith-Emerson That’s true but a lot of movies do that, using similar narrative tools. In the case of Raiders, if I remember correctly, they only did that once and never again in the series. It only works once.
@@glitchy000 it's been quite a few years but yes I'm like 90% sure its into darkness where he does the exact same fake-out with captain Kirk dying only to come back like 15 minutes later
I watched your videos on redemption arcs and loved it. Which is why I'm so surprised that you liked Kylos redemption arc. I agree with everything else you said here, but would love to hear what you liked about how they showed that arc. I loved kylo's character and was looking forward to a redemption arc. But picking up from your redemption arc video (and the beauty of the redemption arc trifecta), what in this movie explained Kylo's change? All I have seen was Leia saying "Ben". What made him question his world view or image of himsel? How did he see that the side he was fighting for was the wrong one? made me really sad, because everything had been set up by Rian Johnson for a great redemption arc (Luke apologizing to Kylo; Kylo being connected to Rey).
Right. Rian started it, so we know that there was a crack in his facade (symbolized by the cracks in his mask). And then Leia passed. We knew he harbored soft spots for her because of refusing to pull the trigger against her ship in TLJ, so he felt her passing. Maz gave the throwaway line that Leia gave her all to save her son. So we get a mystical hand wave there. Couple this with Rey stabbing him and then healing him. Ren's character with Luke was that someone he loved/respected wanted him dead. The sword never had to actually land for it to cut through Ben's psyche. But to have his mother reach out on her deathbed, and then to have his force bonded dyad will him back to life using her own lifeforce was something of a breaking point. Some fans also think that the "no" Ren shouted to Luke when he figured out Luke was projecting his image was not an angry "you tricked me" no,. But rather a "you're killing yourself by teaching me another lessons" realization no. So again Rian set up that moment for Ren to see that people do actually love him. That they don't want him dead. And that they are risking themselves for him. Luke, Leia, and Rey all risked their own lives trying to save him. It made the cracks open wide enough for his memory of another time to come through.
Two thoughts: 1: Tagging JJ Abrams was a mistake to begin with. He does good lead ins, he does great visuals mostly(lens flare cough cough), but his pay offs/finales have always been weak, and this trilogy needed a monster ending. 2: When you say at approx 21:20 "It was not as good as it could have been." I felt this was really the defining statement of the whole series. Just not as good as it could have been.
The First Order in the Battlefront Game (which is canon) says they are as big as the Empire and they control multiple planets. So it is a Governing body but very poorly conveyed.
Honestly, I think that pic that showed both directors as children playing in a sandbox, building sandcastles and destroying each other's perfectly shows what happened here. It's a shame that sth so childish tarnished a movie with worldwide coverage. An even bigger shame that it happened to such a name as Star Wars. Honestly, I feel like this is what it's like to bring shame to your family name.
In my opinion Rian Johnson made the best and most interesting star wars movie and then everyone else just undid all of his work because they didn't like it. I dont think it's fair to say that he 'tore down any sandcastles'
The Daily Express has an article where Daisy Ridley says Rian Johnson “didn’t keep anything from the first draft of episode 8”. JJ Abrams said in an interview “Episode 8 didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.” My take is that Rian decided to tell his own story rather than the story that was started in TFA, or at least take it in a different direction than Abrams intended. Abrams didn’t take the bait and instead played course-correction in RoS, leading to many of the issues you discuss.
Rian was brought on because he was an Indie Director who had new ideas. Disney wanted and then greenlight him showing new ideas because of the criticism received that TFA was a copy of ANH with a few name changes. Blame him for visual choices or pacing. But don't forget the corporate overlords who was behind his hiring.
Ikr. Think about he was are eyes into the stormtrooper's view. That was a good choice, it would have great to learn more on fin like, meeting his home, what became of it, who were his parents. But sadly no, so much potential for that character wasted
Have you seen how in China they delete scenes with Finn in them and minimize his pictures on posters and such? He couldn't have a significant role due to him likely being axed from scenes to appease China.
I think you miss who Finn really is... he is trying so hard to be someone because he has no selfesteem whatsoever... in this movie not unlike Poe and Rey... but he feels even more insignificant because unlike the other two he actually is not special at all! He is as ordinary as one can be... he is the geek of the show but the talentless geek, his journey is about learning that he too can do something on his own... and not just trying to be helpless trying to care for his friends, and prove himself! He finds it in his female counterpart on Endor, but he will always be a cringefest, because that is who he represents!
He was annoying as hell, still running after Rey like a high school crash 🤦♀️ He wanted to tell her something all the time, but he didn’t. Thank goodness
Right it's a shame. And also why TRoS killed of Ren. Because SW doesn't know what to do with characters once they have a come to Jesus/Force moment. TFA- Finn defects from the Stormtroopers after noticing that he is the bad guy. Determines his own identity and tries to keep his new friends alive despite them constantly getting into shenanigans TLJ- Helps him to stop defecting from things - running away. And allows him to be the master of his own fate. TRoS- Turns out he isn't that special, he still is chasing after everyone else instead of doing his own thing. And the implied need to constantly worry about someone you saw lift many bilders with their mind. All of that work from TLJ was taken away from him in TROS- Two steps wayyy back. They killed Kylo for wow factor but also because they couldn't figure out what to do with Finn's character after his own cross over from bad guy to good guy.
I think that the bones of this film aren’t fundamentally flawed, and I think this 100% could have been a satisfying end to the new trilogy. The only problem is that that hypothetical trilogy doesn’t exist. It began with the Force Awakens, but Rian Johnson killed it where it stood with the Last Jedi. This movie, to me, felt less like an effort in retconning TLJ out of existence and more like an attempt to do JJ Abram’s middle AND final film in his trilogy at once, because somebody else got in the way of his vision. It’s a frankly insane way to construct a trilogy and I can’t believe that potentially the largest piece of pop culture the world is currently invested in was so poorly planned and so easily disrupted. I think that The Last Jedi is an interesting film that did fascinating things with our core understanding of what a Star Wars film is - and I also think it should never have been put in the middle of the Skywalker saga.
This is the most coherent and intelligent ramble I’ve ever heard. I enjoyed it so much in the moment, but I had the same problems with it. And a lot of the moments fell flat.
The whole film felt like a checklist of fan service that was trying so hard to please people by playing on nostalgia without serving the story. 2 thirds of the movie is just "oh look! This is something you know!" Say what you want about TLJ, but at least it was original, and I appreciate what it tried to do. JJ's movies feel more like a 200mil$ fan film by someone who knows star warsy-ish stuff.
the moment i heard palpatine laugh in the initial teaser trailer, i knew this was going to be bad fanfic. but i still had fun at the theater (just turn your brain off, and everything looks like a masterpiece). rey has progressed more into a mary sue despite any intentions to avoid that. in hindsight, the prequel trilogy was a tragedy of a boy turning to the dark side out of fear of losing the ones he loves, the original trilogy is the redemption story for that boy through his son who learns to conquer the darkness through acceptance....and the sequel trilogy is just the original trilogy but with a girl and nothing to conclude from earlier films and lots of fan-service-y easter eggs.
I didn't buy into Kylo Ren's arc. It happened too fast. At the beginning of the movie he wants to kill Rey then all of a sudden he has this internal monologue with Han and he's redeemed?
It's a shame that, despite my flaws with TFA and TLJ, they had a coherent thematic idea in process that flowed pretty well and TROS kinda of ignored it, it didn't feel like the culmination of the sequel trilogy, let alone even the saga There are moments, but I find the movie more contrived and bland rather than anything more or less I'm definitely not distraught over it, but I find it really hard to understand the writing process here, I would love to see something released, a book or documentary, about scrapped ideas and the process of writing TROS as well as other films
I guess i also agree with you, but it’s a bit strange to get the quality of a movie from their themes. Also, The Last Jedi’s themes do anything but flow well with the story lol
Megane Man A lot of folks watch film for theme and meaning. That’s why I watch it. The lightsabers, the star fighters, all the SFX is just dressing the body of the work. I understand a lot of folks just want escapism, comfort, and nostalgia. I appreciate those things too. But it’s not *why* I watch. I needs meaning. TRoS doesn’t mean anything to me.
@@Mega2chan well to me, ever since the OT was expanded on, the immediate story and plot has always been very messy > but the thematic messages of star wars always stood strong and are timeless the Skywalker Saga has been about family, hope, and bringing balance EDIT: this ended up longer than I thought but TL;DR - Prequels > fall to dark > Originals > return to light > Sequels > balance As the Prequel trilogy on an overall level was about the fall to the dark the Original trilogy was about the return to the light > but the message of the idea of balance was that you can't just disregard the dark side, and the very notion of Luke repeating the faults of the prequels was doomed from the start the Sequel trilogy is all about balance, and as TFA on a meta level is a retread of ANH, it really shows how our heroes idolize the past so much, and believe doing what their "heroes" did would lead them to suceed, and they do! Until the Last Jedi, which shows destroying Starkiller base on a whim lead to the Resistence being located and practically entirely destroyed As TLJ's main message is "Don't kill the past, but reinstate what the past meant" the direction of the "Jedi" order in that film was heading towards Grey this is only more prevelant in Rey and Kylo's arcs which show the hero naturally drawn to the dark and the Villain naturally drawn to the light, and the ending of TROS only enforces that but I never said the execution was great lol
@@glitchy000 I think TROS has a fair meaning but its really only apparent in the VERY end and the rest of the film's plot, character arcs, etc just disregard it bad execution sadly but the message is there, although *barely*
Question: The star destroyers fleet appearance; how long has palpatine been... dead? And it is the secret base of the sith. Sooo I'm guessing there was always an army there(shadowy figures in arena at the end?) So maybe it was just a matter of upgrading that army. Btw! You are SO right about the fighting!! Thats exactly how it felt! Hhuuu... shudders.
I was really hoping that exactly the opposite would happen at the end. That Ben would be the one to left alive. That Rey would make this sacrifice. My point is he has turned to the Light again, but look at all the suffering that he brought upon the Galaxy. He has to atone for his sins. Turning good in one battle against Big Bad doesn't mean you're redeemed. That is so cheap.
her only "weakness" is accidentally being too strong basically lol. Plus the reflecting lightning part at the end is sooo fucking bad. Mace windu was struggling to hold off palpatine but apparently all he needed was a second lightsaber lmao. Gosh I hate the sequel trilogy with a passion
Her weakness was believing in anything but herself (parents, Luke, legacies in general). She's basically a reflection of fanons, and that's what fanons don't like about her.
@@lamarravery4094 I identified myself as a war bull with three tails. That's make any sense? No, just like the movie. Like it or not, she isn't a Skywalker, hell, she isn't even adopted.
@@mray4784 This whole trilogy has pretty much the same message as the OT: it doesn't matter where you came from, what's important is where you're going. The point of her saying that she's a Skywalker is that she's carrying on in Luke and Leia's spirit and shunning her actual ancestry.
I watched the movie yesterday and maybe by me ignoring any possible spoilers etc. I did actually have fun during the movie... I see the biggest problem in the inability to create a cohesive story out of the different visions of J.J. and Johnson. I'd like to think that a lot of the shitstorm and toxicity in the fandom could have been avoided if J.J. made his story and then Johnson got his shot to create a new chapter. Not mixing the two
@UCzGlMQ5S9AM0Qu2vQWWVlbw You are absolutely right. Disliking a movie isn't toxic at all. But some in the fandom have a certain sense of entitlement that led them into trying to force their disliking (and also liking) of these movies onto others. And the sexist and racist backlash towards Ridley, Tran and and in the beginning also Boyega under the guise of "that's not Star Wars, I know because I'm a fan and everyone who disagrees with me is no real fan" - that's toxic fandom. Everybody should have their own opinion, I personally think that Disney made several bad decisions, but art isn't objective and I am actually happy for everyone who enjoys Star Wars - because that's the point
Daisy Ridley aside, the character of "Rey" was flawed from start to finish, in part because of her flawlessness. Adam Driver aside, the character of "Kylo Ren" was also flawed from start to finish, and the "layers" you and others mention is actually discombobulated underdevelopment, with the opening scene setting him up as a villain and then trying haphazardly to redeem him (ala Anakin Skywalker) since the "love" between Rey and Kylo never comes across as authentic or meaningful, unlike the father-son bond between Anakin and Luke in the Return of the Jedi.
They should have had 4 movies to salvage this. The way to have done this would be to have Rey fall to the Darkside and Kylo move to the Lightside. Rey is in communique with Palpatine's Force Ghost. Snoke was a clone so he is alive. Luke is still alive in the flesh. He defeats Snoke and Kylo fights Rey to turn her to the Light. It's not perfect but at least leave the OT Canon untouched.
I liked it! It was fun. But I don't have an emotional nostalgic connection to the series since I watched it for the first time when I was like, 19? So I just think it's a fun series, I'm a causal watcher
How George Lucas made Star Wars movie: 1. Good Story 2. Character Development 3. Plot Twist 4. John Williams 5. Continuity How Rian Johnson made Star Wars movie: 1. Plot Twist 2. John Williams How J.J. Abrams made Star Wars movie: 1. Copy Paste 2. John Williams
Even my issues with the sequels, GL made 1 good Star Wars movie (with help from his wife at the time). ESB and ROTJ had different directors and more writers involved.
@@GM_MorganV With Lucas supervising. Do you really think he'd get sequel rights from Fox and then put up his own money only to leave everything be? He was breaking a cardinal rule of Hollywood: NEVER SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY. Try reading Skywalking for the real history of the Rebellion trilogy.
I think a lot of the problems come from the story having no setup in the second movie, and its trying to bring the whole series into a big climax, but it has to build its own foundation for the story.
I think trying to rescue chewie but accidentally killing him (but not really) was a failure in Rey's part, as well as almost losing to Kylo on the wreckage but saved by Leia in the last second
One of the best things about LJ is the action hero men from the 90s (portrayed by Luke, Poe, and Finn) go through development to be less toxic. In a lot of ways, RoS provided an epilogue where we see that they have internalized the lessons. However, it doesn't seem that Abrams learned the lesson, as Rey goes off lone gunman style and doesn't have consequences, Poe and Finn get heavily no homo'd, Rose gets completely sidelined, etc. Despite that, it felt Star Wars, and for the 9 movie Palpatine Saga that has been part of my entire life, the ups and downs, it felt a fantastic finale. There is a completion that I feel. It had problems (pacing, plothole), but no more than most other entried in the saga. And as a finale to a trilogy of trilogies, it can't try to be a stand alone, so it fits in well. And, of course, we will never not have Star Wars movies, so I look forward to more outside the rebellion years.
I actually never thought about the personnel logistics of crewing all those star destroyers. Not that the movie makes ANY attempt to explain how Palpatine could have this fleet, but thinking about the literal MILLIONS of people required to operate that fleet just makes the whole scenario so much more ridiculous. At least the prequels bothered to explain where the surprise armies (clones and droids) came from and how they were trained/supplied without much of anyone noticing.
I agree with you so much on most of your points. The only 2 things I don't agree with are: 1 - Kylo's redemption - while I enjoyed the relationship between him and Rey and could tell they were going to go down that path, the actual point where he 'turned to the light' didn't make sense to me. His mother reaches out via Force once and that's it? What makes this moment different to any other moment in the previous movies where someone has reached out to him. What made him decide? Does he even know? Or is he just 'following his feelings'. Also, I literally thought Leia was reaching out to distract him so that Rey could defeat him but then Rey heals him and I felt very confused. Like does Rey somehow know he's turned back? Or did she just do it because she wanted to, without considering the effects on the galaxy? I had never wanted him to be redeemed but I was open to it if done well. After that point his redemption did work emotionally for me. The 2nd thing is the Force healing. To me it felt too conveniently set up this movie and it's like 'why has no one done this before? Seems very convenient' Maybe if they had made more of a big deal about it being something that was a 'Sith power' then it would make more sense. Though to me it makes no sense that Rey's palpatine heritage would make her spontaneously manifest Sith powers like force lightning or healing. Sith/Jedi is afterall simply a religion/beliefs/lifestyle choice. Sith and Jedi are not inherently different, they're all just Force sensitive. I enjoyed some of the moments in the film and I did enjoy some of the (predictable) emotional payoffs, but overall it was just...disappointing. Which is pretty sad because I liked both Force Awakens and Last Jedi and I'm certain this movie is not what was originally intended but the result of them bowing to what they think audiences did/didn't like. And my god the fan pandering reached ridiculous new heights! The medallion at the end for Chewie was the last straw! I mean seriously, how did that make any sense within universe?? Also the pacing felt off which I don't expect from Abrams. There's just no room to breathe/soak in any emotional events. Anyway apologies for the very long ramble! I'll be very surprised if anyone reads all of this lol. I just feel frustrated because I really think it could've been good if they just stuck with whatever their original plan was. I mean maybe it would've still been bad, but at least it would have been coherent and presumably be someone's clearer vision rather than just bland pandering.
Just also wanted to add that if Rey did just heal him because she wanted to without knowing that he would turn good, that would actually have been a VERY fascinating character moment for her! And would really lend to the idea that she might turn to the Dark side because she selfishly is willing to risk dooming the galaxy for personal reasons (and for someone who objectively deserves to die too). And all they had to do was make it clear that she didn't know he had turned good. Add a little scene that shows she feels guilty/regrets/still expects him to be evil next time he shows. Plus they could've made it so this act of love/compassion/mercy/faith is what ultimately redeems Kylo (in combination with Leia and everything else), which to me makes a lot more sense. And maaaybe this is what they intended? But I don't think so based on how it's done. And if that's the intention it was communicated very poorly...Sorry for second ramble!
There is a very clear tell tale in the recent trilogy. I knew Kylo was going to be redeemed when his first took off his helmet in the Force Awakens. He was handsome. I mean he had no Sith deformations, no red/yellow eyes or veins or lesions etc. I feel hired when Snoke said he was going to complete his training at the end I figured if he doesn’t have said deformations in The Last Jedi then he’s going to be redeemed. Same happened with Reeva in Obi-Wan. Moment I saw here I knew she would be redeemed too. It really was a mess. Next time they should probably have a game plan before creating a trilogy with so much history and lore.
If you’re a Star Wars fan all these years. You will love the movie but get ready for some disappointing moment at the end. The title doesn’t seem fit with the ending.
I wonder if the fight scenes between Rey and Kylo were like them attacking their weapons instead of each other because they didn't actually want to hurt each other. That's why Rey immediately healed him when she did hurt him. Like when two people who care about each other are angry but they don't really want to hurt the other.
4 года назад
I can't agree more with you. The more I think of it, the more things come up that I do not understand. For example, why Rey does not vanish inmediately when she dies, and Ben does? Looks like as if they wanted to give no chance to him.
By the way, I think one of the reasons you didn't feel anything with C3PO is that they already "killed" Chewie only to bring him back *immediately*. If they had actually killed Chewie, then you would have gone into the C3PO memory wipe thing on the edge of your seat.
Back before TLJ came out there were theories about Rey being a Palpatine, and I loved the idea. It meant they could explore an interesting path for the story, but also use it as a way to connect the disney trilogy to the previous films. Having Palps come backwas completely unnecessary, and makes Anakin's sacrifice pointless. If they managed to do Dark Empire the right way it would work, especially as long as Anakin returns. You can have one or the other, but not both.
I'd like to remind everyone that it originally took a space station the size of a moon to be able to house the power needed to destroy an entire planet.
I agree with almost everything you said, I just came out of the theater and I just have this feeling that of being lost and nothing made sense and every convenient plot was used.
I think a fair bit of the missing parts with not everything being closed is down to trying to fix a train wreck. With one film. I personally think they did pretty good pulling it back to a conclusion, though I do agree with a lot of the criticism with the characters and plot holes
As someone that tends to hate retcons, I think it was good thing they tried to undo the mistakes and themes of TLJ. Because that movie made so many incongruous character, plot, and thematic choices that it's too divorced from anything else Star Wars. The only hope for a decent capstone movie, besides making a whole new Episode VIII, was to perform retcons. Continuing it made no sense. And I don't understand people that have an issue with Rey being related to another character we know. Mostly because only one family lineage was ever there in the movies: the Skywalkers. That's it. Everyone else already "came from nowhere" and were often vitally important to the plot. Personally, I would rather have her be the child of some random Jedi who survived the Jedi Purge, or something along those lines, just to justify her innate power and skills. And to provide character opportunities for her. I haven't seen the movie, but I can't imagine the fight choreography can be worse than the throne room scene in TLJ. I'll just recommend Shadiversity's video for why that's so bad. But those nitpicks aside, really liked the video. Always love to hear your perspectives man.
personally think that ros introduced some interesting ideas that could have been nice and cool to see. like rey being related to palpetine in some way is a cool concept for me (ros executed this crappily by just saying hey its a thing now rather than being foreshadowed). also alot of the opening stuff could have been used in last jedi, such as exploring more of reys struggle with the dark side in more tangible ways. overall disappointment in the fact i saw cool ideas that were more of used as throw away responses to the last jedi rather than part of a thought out trilogy.
You came up with good points. I agreed with all of them. I was disappointed by the main storyline but the score and the visuals were awesome. It was an enjoyable watch but as a Star Wars fan I was unsatisfied.
Well I guess, enjoyed it from the middle on and appreciated that they really tried t make ray intresting. The best part however was that chewie finally got his medal, man that made me cry harder then anyt
Just as a film, I did enjoy it. As a die hard Star Wars fan, analyzing it and looking at it as part of the bigger picture, I have quite a few issues with it. Palpatine coming back wasn’t necessary in the slightest, but by God did they make him unsettling to see. That part I really liked. I really liked how they handled Rey and Kylo’s “relationship”. The connection through the Force, their interactions, I thought it was well done. Rey being a Palpatine is fine as a concept, I guess. When I originally sat down and thought out all the different theories, I came to the conclusion Rian Johnson gave us; her parents are unimportant or we haven’t met them. And I liked that. And while I’m still technically right in that we never met them, it raises a lot more questions that I seriously want answered. Namely, when the hell and why the hell did Palpatine find time or reason to father a child? I didn’t want Kylo to be redeemed, but how they did it actually changed my mind on it. Major love for bringing Harrison back for that moment by the way. The scene that carried the biggest emotional punch for me was Leia’s death. I cried. I knew it was coming and I still cried. Visually the film looks great. I’ll agree there. I’m very happy that they fixed Rose being a bumbling idiot. I’m sorry but I hated Rose in TLJ. Nothing against Kelly Marie Tran naturally, she did fine with what she was given. There were a lot of moments where it felt like the film was rushing through stuff just cause it had so much to do. It feels like too much for a single film. The barrage of fan service was...nice, I guess. But it feels like them trying to win back some of what was lost in TLJ. And I actually liked TLJ. This trilogy suffered from having two different directors and no coherent or planned out story. They dropped the ball on this. Hell, I even think them doing a sequel trilogy was a hinderance to them. Cause this trilogy doesn’t feel like a continuation, it feels like bad fan fiction with some cool ideas. With that said, my biggest complaint is the last battle with Palpatine. The whole “I am all of the Sith” doesn’t really make sense to begin with, but then taking that mixed with Rey ending his threat once and for all kind of gives Anakin and the original six a giant middle finger. At least that’s how I feel about it. Anakin was the Chosen One meant to destroy the Sith. By bringing Palpatine back from the dead and making him “all the Sith” and having Rey kill him they’re basically undoing what Anakin did. They’re rewriting the prophecy. But at the end of all of this, my two biggest joys are actually outside the film. The fact we can now get out from under the shadow of the Skywalker saga for some original content, and the sheer joy in sitting in the theater with my lovely girlfriend and both humming along to the music. My first ever opening day showing for Star Wars, and I shared it with her. Worth it to me.
Did Palpatine create his offspring via midi-chlorian manipulation? And how did he lose that child, who grew up to birth Rey? He did not watch his own child's career with great interest. Palpatine being all the Sith fit my Snoke theory to a T. Jedi fade into the Force as a collective. It's only (un)natural that the Sith would not be able to join the Force and remain tormented in purgatory. It was the double lightsaber trick that made me go "wait, that's all that had to happen?" (or were the sabers imbued and channeled with Anakin/Luke/Leia's energy). Rey ridding the Emperor doesn't bother me because, even though I enjoyed it, it's not canon to me. It fits this trilogy, but not the Saga. I don't need everything to be canon to be a fun film. The best scene for me was Chewie's breakdown. Imagine losing those you love and being helpless to save them. I had to defy gravity itself to keep my tear ducts in line. PS: Did you catch Wedge's cameo? The only reason I did was by reading Resistance Reborn first, which explains how he joined the Resistance.
Alan Smith-Emerson You raise a valid point, cause if Vader’s vision in a recent comic storyline is true we know Palpatine is capable of doing that. But that still raises questions I want answers to. Namely why did he create a kid? And like you said, how did he lose them? Good stuff calling the Snoke bit. As for the lightsabers, even though there’s no real proof of it and I don’t think it’s a thing that can happen, we can say she was channeling their energy through the sabers to make it cooler. And that’s more or less how I’m viewing this trilogy, it’s its own separate thing and the story ended with Return of the Jedi. That way I can still view it as a fun film. But on a side note Baby Yoda still exists as far as I’m concerned. I felt so bad for Chewie. He’s had it the worst this trilogy. I just want to give the big fur ball a hug even though he both towers over me and could crush me. I did catch the Wedge cameo. Like you I knew it might happen cause of Resistance Reborn. Side note, how many of the Jedi voices did you catch? I heard Anakin, Luke, Mace Windu, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon.
Alan Smith-Emerson Come to think of it, Palpatine doing the midi-chlorian trick would have effectively created a “second chosen one.” Someone to rival Vader in power. But that still raises a whole bunch of questions. Was Palpatine trying to create a rival for Vader? If it was the midi-chlorian trick, wouldn’t that effectively make Anakin his son as well, and therefore Luke his grandson, and Kylo his great grandson? This opens up a rather large rabbit hole to fall in.
Beyond just going in and expecting more, the film had me feeling like it was centering around a profound theme, right to the ending when it just... didn't. Dualism in the force was alluded to in elements of the story, and several scenes had imagery eliciting that notion (and rather beautifully, imo). Kylo Ren finally acknowledges his humanistic, even compassionate emotions (grief, remorse) as he throws his red light saber into the ocean, while Rey finally allows herself to feel and express anger as she flings the blue light saber into the fire. Kylo comes from a "light" family but chooses to turn to the dark side, while Rey was born into a "dark" family but has forged her own path in the light. The two of them recognize the strengths of the other side and use them together to defeat the evil enemy. Surely, now the lineages of Skywalker and Palpatine will reconcile and together lead a new generation of Jedi who maintain balance in the force synergistically instead of fighting each other, right? But... no, Kylo dies and Rey becomes a Skywalker and yay! the light side has triumphed over the dark once again. I came away feeling rather deflated, or like the story is left hanging without a conclusion. I'm going with the yin/yang, harmonization version in my head canon anyway.
I find it weird how people latch on to the idea that Kylo was being honest about Ray's parents being nobody. 1. How/Why the heck would he know? 2. He was pretty clearly trying to be hurtful in that scene.
Claire Rose I liked it, but it does suck they clearly didn’t have a plan for this trilogy. Which ok, the og trilogy was spitballed too but they never originally planned for a trilogy in the first place, so for spitballing they knew how to cover their tracks a lot better. Here, clearly nothing was planned going in and that’s a shame.
For me when I left the theater I was of a state in which my first response at the end was "this is an ending I can be content with" but as I think on the movie more the more I find the points I enjoyed being nods to the original trilogy and a un satisfaction with what was supposed to be the new story though I will be honest (and I never believed I would say this) but as the months leading up to episode 9 passed I found myself in a state of "it's time for starwars movies to end" which is sad for me because I've always been a big fan of starwars but I think it was my realization that nothing I enjoy can go on forever. (sorry if I rambled)
it's basically impossible to try and fix a trilogy in the last movie, it was doomed from the start and so they filled it with things to try to get the online critics of The Last Jedi to stop. and yeah Rei is a Mary Sue because she never fails. Not only that, she never struggles, not even morally. That's how Mary Sue's work, or rather don't.
Haven't seen the movie yet but have seen the leaks - not sure if I'm interested as it sounds silly. Here's my take on how they could have made the film work: I always believed that Rey was Palpatine's grand daughter and Luke's daughter too - only this bloodline explains her powers. Here's how it works: After the RotJ Luke would have found Palpatine's daughter who had been imprisoned by her father (because he's paranoid about her learning the Force but wants her alive as a contingency). Luke doesn't kill her (as she's not guilty of anything) but ends up taking her under his guidance (she's potentially too powerful to be left to wander freely). Eventually, in Luke's final defeat of Palpatine and all he stood for, they have a child together and Luke starts to teach this child in the ways of the Force, recognising that she needs to be trained. However, Snoke starts whispering in the outer regions, and Luke's wife / lover takes a young Rey and hides her as far away from Luke as she can (Snoke could have tricked her into believing that she will grow up to be a new dark side user who wants to dominate the galaxy, so she hides their daughter to stop her from being trained further in the Force so she won't turn into this new evil - much as her father hid her away. When she does this, Luke's wife / lover erases Rey's memories before Jakku using her own Force powers). Years pass, and Luke's wife eventually returns to him as he trains Kylo. Again, Snoke whispers to Kylo, luring him to the darkness, and when Kylo turns on Luke he also kills Luke's wife / lover when he destroys the Jedi temple. This explains perfectly why Luke exiled himself to Ach-To and gave up the Force - it's simply cost his family too much: his father fell to the Dark Side and brought about the demise of a great Republic, his daughter has been taken and hidden by his wife / lover, who was then killed by his own nephew . . . proper Shakespeare tragedy. Of course, then along came Rian Johnson and kind of sank that idea when Luke didn't recognise Rey at all or even guess at who she could be (unless Luke decided that he wanted to maintain his dead wife's idea of keeping Rey away from the Force - but it's a bit late by then). Still, this idea actually works as it links the 2 families together that are the core of Star Wars. In fact, anything else falls short of giving the fans the explanation they deserve I think: it redeems Luke's character after the Last Jedi disaster (how he brought Palpatine's daughter to the light side of the Force through patience and goodness, and how her hiding their daughter and then being murdered by Kylo was shattering to him), it explains her Force abilities and why she was hidden, and just finishes the trilogy off nicely. However, seems like the good folk at Disney and JJ had other ideas....what a missed opportunity in cinematic history!
So, this is a deep pull and probably unintentional (and I know I'm like a year and half late) but there actually KIND OF is a precedent for "all the Sith live in me," but it's from the decanonized Expanded Universe, specifically the very end of the Darth Bane Trilogy. Does that make it good? Eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhno.
I don't agree with Rey dosen't have moments where she thinks about her dark side, her blowing up the transporter atempting to kill Kylo talking to Fin about it (even tho she dismisses the fact she isn't the one they expect her to be) Her confliction with the dark side is very understandable for me, i faced something inside of me that i didn't want to be a part of, yet it is. Coming to terms of my sutuation didn't need dialog. It was just me spaceing out sometimes, which she does to. At the end you find yourself accepting yourself and yet firming yourself and i think thats just what she did and they represented that with her lightsaber
the reasons the story doesn't work are as follows: 1. Their characters are not allowed to fail in meaningful ways, their characters have to be fully perfect before the story begins and so the failures they do have are going to just be a matter of 'getting stronger'\ 2. they didn't (and don't) respect the universe that came before them. they don't keep the characters from before, instead they make up their own characters and have those actors play them. it feels alien and it feels wrong 3. they confuse fan service from respect for the internal rules for the universe. they don't follow the logic of Star Wars, instead they throw in a few characters with the right names and say "yeah we love George Lucas's star wars, look it's R2"
I really liked it. I didn't feel it was a retcon of TLJ at all except that Snoke wasn't important at all, but Johnson more or less made that abundantly clear when he had him killed without ceremony. Palpatine's return makes sense since he was the student of a Sith Lord that knew how to live forever. Was it rushed? Yes, but it had to be given the fact that Johnson's movie didn't foreshadow anything and he refused to explain anything. Why anyone believed Kylo Ren when he told Rey she was nobody is beyond me. He sounded like an abusive boyfriend. You're not important, you're no one. I'm important and you're important to me, thats your only value. I do believe her being a Palpatine was teased in Last Jedi. Luke feels her power then looks scared. He says "I've only ever felt raw power like this once before..." and then he gets away from her. We all thought this was a lame reference to Ben Solo, but it turns out he was talking about Palpatine, which makes sense why she dove for the dark and why Luke would be scared of that. Is it a narrative mess? Yes. I also don't care. It was great fun, made enough sense to survive my sense of disbelief, and tied the series together without following Johnson's terrible direction. His vision of the future of Star Wars was downright wrong. JJ Abrams was good, but they made a mistake hiring a different director in the middle.
![Supplementary Notes on Writing Mental Illness [re-edited because I butchered it last time]](/img/1.gif)
I'm not so surprised as someone at the pitch meeting saying "Okay, but imagine if Palpatine came back from the dead" as I am with others going YEAH THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. What a freaking trainwreck.
~ Tim
Well. I'd you want a better Palpatine comes back story, search up the dark Empire books.
@@nothingunderthemask I was about to say. For a 'new direction' for Star Wars, they sure have bastardized a lot of things from the old EU.
@@johnmccarron7066 and not even the best things...
Though that might be for the best
Oh yes yes, because he had all those cloned bodies of him yes (which were the most stupid part of the EU and being canon doesn't make it better) and the cloned bodies remained in perfect condition for all these years yes right! BRILIANT!
Yes... this felt like a good response to the critisism. I think they tried... but they also weirdly succeded below is why, but first I disagree that Rey had no failures... she cant pass the course jedi training course... she doesnt believe in herself after TLJ which was the purpose of that movie to break down all our arrogant characters... i dont think Snoke and Kylo spoke the truth of Rey... it seemed like a manipulation attempt then, and it still does now. Rey tries to rescue chewie and she MISTAKENLY blows up the damn ship... unbeknownst to her chewie was on a second ship... she still felt the failure... she turn away from everyone and ran.... she went into hiding just like luke trying to burn everything when she couldn't live with killing Ben Solo in anger... she felt the same faliure as Anakin there... she is a mess... Poe is the same and it Takes LUKE and LANDO to talk sense into them... and Leia is connecting some wierd shit with KYLO... needs to bee seen a few times to truly understand im not sure if she had some crazy power to connect different spirits from the netherforce to some other person across the galaxy but she does so, and it claims her life... but only after Ben dies..... she is alive till that point but noone realize it. Her fate is tied with Ben Solo's and then there is Hayden Christensen which im sure was Superimposed briefly on Ben Solo as he died. There is some funky shit going on we dont know. And we are not meant to know at this point in time. Anyway let me get back to the reason why it weirdly succeded:
Its funny the more i think about the whole as a picture, what is 1,2,3, 4,5,6, 7,8,9 I get this:
The story of how Arrogance and Dealing in Absolute GOOD, leads to the dysfunction of democracy and the rise of the sith and fall of the jedi, the rule is hard and through struggle and hardships the galaxy overcomes its dark period of evil realising we fucked up returning to the path of the light, now struggling with itself to trust they can be better for the galaxy to dig out, and not be afraid to fail accepting the galaxy can be good again but only if the galaxy believes in itself then and only then can it come out stronger!
In its seperate trilogies:
1-3: Being a wonderkid with pressure on everyone believes in and expect so much from, leads to a road into darkness.
4-6: Being a kid who has no seemingly reason to be extraordinary learns set of skills, appplies them on a journey of maturity, to come home victorious after many hardships.
7-9: Being the the wonderkid that noone expects anything from, and has little idea of why this apparant no body can hold so much greatness scars person, and results in selfdoubt because everyone else seems to doubt said person, to be given a boost of confidence and to finally believe in one self and accepting help to be brave enough to face life's hardships because they they see something they cant explain, and scares them.
If you want to read SJW into any of that last bit you can!
But i think its wrong.
Or maybe it even strikes home for some haters.
(not that there is anything wrong with that)
But in a way social justice is at its core about not judging people based on predjucie and biggotry, so if you think that fits 7-9 its not wrong... but that is exactly why its a good trilogy. Not because its SJW dont get me wront, because its in line with different stories of growing up set in the setting reflecting the time each trilogy is made in.
Stay with me here:
So 4-6 is made in an era where kapitalism is you make your own luck go out there and do it! FIts Luke's arc,
1-3 is made in an era where the young new generation after the Cold War and collapse of the USSR sparks hope across the world, and puts pressure on people, that we still see the effect of in young adults today! Wonder girls who are just so laboursome.. untill they crack...
7-9: Everyone is really just trying to be their own selves... older people says wow wow wow stop... that is taking it too far fuck this SJW... younger people or SJW's are all fuck you... imma say OKAY BOOMER... and piss you off even more while i try to do my own thing... people who struggle to identify themselves or accept them selves for who they are... thats the theme of it!
And its funny how much we all as fans only see the SJW as a bad piece of shit... and writing... but really we are looking into the mirror, we are watching ourselves... only some might find themselves on the dark side.. some on the light... but at the end of the day... the concious thing is about walking both paths! We might not like what we see in the mirror... but it is who we are. Maybe we should accept it! And remember whatever we see its only human!
Trilogy about two directors working against each other. And no roadmap.
What could go wrong
Worse was it was meant to be three directors initially.
@@ndf2719 that aint a problem, if they work together with roadmap plan where the story goes. again this falls on bad leadership at the top too.
It’s a couple of friends doing a thesis one shows up drunk and the other is on crack, let’s see how that works!
@@ndf2719 Trevorrow would've focused on one weird, tiny aspect of the trilogy, meant to be a throwaway, and make it central to the conflict. Call it Indominus Rey.
Well TFA was bad. Really really bad. It kind of sets how the rest were gonna be which was also bad. Really really bad
I met a musician several years ago who was insistent that Rey was a Palpatine because her theme shared motifs with the emperor's theme. I suppose he'll feel quite vindicated now.
Socioling 33 very well planned out from the start of this trilogy. Not well planned out to the saga as a whole. I enjoyed it, no one in the theater booed a lot of people applauded
Very keen observation, I hadn't noticed that.
Rey being a nobody was so much better
@@davidpiper667 Yeah that was a very good analysis, really shows how little of a plan they had and yet more proof of John Williams' genius, being able to prepare for such uncertainty
Vareesh Ordo I mean, the way they delivered the Rey is a Palpatine was bad. But Rey being a nobody was equally bad. They built it up so much over the two movies before basically going “lol jk, you thought this was something but it’s not, we tricked you, look how clever we are”
Ep 4: Death Star
Ep 6: Another Death Star
Ep 7: Big Death Star
Ep 9: Lots of Death Star Destroyers
you missed a few more
Ep 1: Not-Death Star Station
Ep 8: Mini-Death Star Portable
I'm honestly amazed that the entire plot of the movie got leaked. It's insane to me.
Isn't it because John Boyega left a script under his hotel bed and a housekeeper found it and auctioned it online? I did hear that it was bought back by someone with Disney... but I definitely would've read it beforehand and told everyone I knew
It's because no one cares, I'm pretty sure one of the staff of lucas film leaked it, to show off the bs. Remember it was leaked 4 months before the premier..
Never seen any movie that I know of leaked like this. When Geeks and Gamers read out the leak like many no one thought it was true.
@@dougiejones5719 No, it was leaked before that happened. It was revised after, so I'm sure that did contribute or confirm the leaks but it was leaked months ago.
I personally see a pattern
Endgame: as many problems as it had and the insane amount of people involved, don't remember leaks
GoT S8: Horribly written rushed ending, leaked very early, before EP3 no oke belived in them, had to be fake
TROS has had leaks up the vazuu for a long time, the movie even had a reference to the force diode, one of the earliest leaks that was part of some of the earliest cuts
It's crazy to me that I care so little about Star Wars that I'm watching a bunch of spoilers about it, and am more interested in what you have to say than actually seeing the movie. It's a weird feeling for a series I know so much about, and was so heavily invested in for such a long time.
Many of us are in the same boat. I have always avoided spoilers, but for star wars I just do not care one bit because it's such a joke and I have emotionally disconnected for the entire thing.
I hope the new movie fails badly so that KK can finally be fired.
Same. I saw bad reviews and i decided im not gonna invest myself to this bs and get my heart broken so i forced myself to watch spoilers to prevent myself watching and supporting it
The crazy thing is... I loved TLJ. Favorite Episode of the saga.
Can I jump in this same boat with you all, too?
@@glitchy000 no Nicolas, you have to find a different boat.
😂
It failed to justify the existence of the trilogy and undermined the ending of ROTJ. What was the point of Anakin's sacrifice? Or the Chosen One prophecy?
I was waiting for Artoo to a). do something, and b). restore ALL of Threepio's memories, prequels and all, and for that to be significant. How do you do an entire subplot about Threepio's memories in the final movie and miss that open goal?
These last three were add ons to Lucas's vision. Chosen one's story arc is ignored.
I think people are focused on making their dislike work they actually ignored things they complain about that actually happened.
R2D2 did restore C3P0s memory.
And you are talking about the trilogy undermining Anikins journey.... That happened in the TLJ this movie had to fix the things that one broke.
@@donofman ALL of his memories, including the prequels.
@@donofman since it seems like you've either forgotten or never knew in the first place C-3PO had his memories erased at the end of RoTS. That's why he doesn't recognize Obi-Wan or the moisture farm or react to Luke's name.
@@sr71silver I didn't get what he was implying. I remember C3P0 getting his memory wiped. But I would say before A New Hope R2D2 and C3P0 weren't really a team like that...... I wouldn't see a reason for R2 to be backing up his memory.
In the end, this thing reads like bad fan fiction.
They don't know how to create a hero, so she comes off as bland at best and a Mary Sue at worst.
They don't know how to create a new villain, so the bring back the old one "but way cooler this time!"
Honestly the biggest mistake they made was not having Abrams make all three movies. It still would've had plenty of problems, but it would have at least been a coherent story.
Oh well, at least we have Rogue One and The Mandalorian to remind us of the good old days of Star Wars...
Rogue One is meh
@Cas Ayman agree. Original trilogy had 3 different directors yet felt coherent (with some questionable things). This trilogy felt all over the place
I feel the same way if Kennedy isn't shown the door and Farveu doesn't take over Lucasfilm I'm done with Disney StarWars. Although we're only 6 episodes in to the Madolorian it's been really uplifting compared to what we've got
from Disney so far apart from Rogue one. Although it's done by Marvel guys it shows that they know what the fans want and the understand how to character and world build the StarWars way. Lastly it's devoid of Social agenda politics and a unchohesive narrative that destroyed this trilogy.
Ok so I didn't phrase what I said very well so I'll reiterate; when I said Abrams should have done all three, I was referring to him writing the entire story. I don't really care if he directed all three or not, but it should have at the very least followed his vision. It wouldn't be the best (this is the same guy who made LOST, after all) but it would have been passable, and not whatever the heck this thing has been.
The Mary Sue argument does not make sense but the fact that Disney do not plan out this Trilogy in advance is troubling. They should have given JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson the entire trilogy
Imagine if Return of the Jedi had Obi-Wan or Yoda reveal that Darth Vader was actually lying to Luke about being his father at the end of Empire Strikes Back. Immediately, that revelation at the end of Empire loses 90% of its impact and feels ultimately pointless.
This is why I absolutely despise that they made Rey a Palpatine in this film. Whether or not you liked or disliked that this happened in TLJ, it should have honestly stayed at "they were nobody." Given that there's so many JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson interviews that give clear evidence that JJ had no actual plan for who Rey's parents were in TFA, I'm 100% convinced her being a Palpatine was solely as a response to TLJ haters, and I really hate that they gave in to that demand.
the leak was right wasn't it? *_... oh no_*
More or less. they did change up /some/ of it, because of how poorly test audiences reacted to it, but for the most part - Yeah.
ALIGNMENT-COLORED LIGHTSABERS. I hate the new Star War so much.
Bad fight coriography? I'm looking forward to an one hour long Shadiversity video.
I can’t wait
haha you called it
So much unnecessary reverse grips on the lightsabers... 😂
Damn straight!
It's real and it's spectacular
Kylo has the better actor. He’s a believable character.
Kylo had the story arc. Rey's entire character arc was subsumed by his with a few crumbs to explain why she is relevant.
- Poe's character was never supposed to live past TFA, but when he became a hit due to Oscar Issac's insane level of charm they had to scramble to give him something.
- And poor Finn was kinda added on like a third wheel.
Meaningful character development going AWOL was the worst thing about the new trilogy. Bad fanfiction hist the nail not just because it is terrible but because the internal consistency of Star Wars is equally absent as character development. Rey never had the chance to struggle and grow. She just popped up as this force miracle child even though Anakin could not use the Force without years training proficiently. I honestly forgot about the other characters on the Resistance side. Kylo would have been interesting but his origin as a Sith was really dumb. Luke refused to kill Darth Vader, the second-most evil person in the recent history of the Star Wars Galaxy yet he tries to kill Kylo because of a bad dream? Come on...
I wish I could say that... but he had the same motivations as Skeletor. Interesting, yes. I'll give you that he was the best though.
Lol you wrote TLA instead of TLJ because you're used to ATLA
...Sorry. What does this mean? TLA?
@@elwynlevsen567 Airbender Wars: The Last Avatar
Kylo is the only thing that justifies this trilogy existence even though his backstory needed more fleshing out.
One of the most interesting characters they had, and they wasted him and killed him off. They decided to unload the Skywalkers, they felt they needed to branch off the Universe with new and more diverse characters. Could not do that if they were still telling any of their stories.
I don't think that Kylo, the best new character in the ST, is enough to justify its existence.
I'm just going to say this, Finn could've been so good as he was in TFA, but TLJ completely forgot about his stormtrooper backstory and undermined his development. Then, TROS forgot he existed completely.
If anything this movie makes Rey far more unexplicably powerful than The Last Jedi or even The Force Awakens did
tiesiemo3 It makes everyone more powerful. This was like the Force Unleashed in terms of power level.
Heartbroken by this film. It teases many many awesome possibilities that they puzzlingly undercut in the most baffling ways. Too many new characters that didn’t contribute anything. The convenient ways things get solved. Not enough of what REALLY matters (rushed Kylo redemption, the Force Dyad being explained away in just a single conversation, rushed Rey-Ben resolution, final battle with Palps). Not to mention the many loose threads from TLJ they chose to ignore. It makes for a jarring watch, again. But at least TLJ was clear on what it’s delivering.
There were too many psych-out fake deaths to make me care about the stakes.
- Chewie doesn’t die in the “other transport” that didn’t exist on screen
- C-3PO doesn’t lose his memory permanently or for very long
- Kylo is healed after being stabbed by a lightsaber
- Kylo is flung off a cliff near the climax
- Rey dies but doesn’t
Poor Hux and Snap.
jj pulled the same shit in that star trek movie he made. fake out deaths
To be honest, JJ's not only ripping off entire plots, but now entire plot gaffes. Remember in Raiders when Marion "magically" switched trucks before the first exploded?
Donny Procs I only watched the original Star Trek reboot so I wouldn’t know but I believe you. Apparently Into Darkness has similar issues?
Alan Smith-Emerson That’s true but a lot of movies do that, using similar narrative tools. In the case of Raiders, if I remember correctly, they only did that once and never again in the series. It only works once.
@@glitchy000 it's been quite a few years but yes I'm like 90% sure its into darkness where he does the exact same fake-out with captain Kirk dying only to come back like 15 minutes later
It’s the harsh retcon focus that made me confused. I’d rather they build upon things, even mistakes, rather than just erasing stuff.
I watched your videos on redemption arcs and loved it. Which is why I'm so surprised that you liked Kylos redemption arc. I agree with everything else you said here, but would love to hear what you liked about how they showed that arc.
I loved kylo's character and was looking forward to a redemption arc. But picking up from your redemption arc video (and the beauty of the redemption arc trifecta), what in this movie explained Kylo's change? All I have seen was Leia saying "Ben".
What made him question his world view or image of himsel? How did he see that the side he was fighting for was the wrong one?
made me really sad, because everything had been set up by Rian Johnson for a great redemption arc (Luke apologizing to Kylo; Kylo being connected to Rey).
Right. Rian started it, so we know that there was a crack in his facade (symbolized by the cracks in his mask). And then Leia passed. We knew he harbored soft spots for her because of refusing to pull the trigger against her ship in TLJ, so he felt her passing. Maz gave the throwaway line that Leia gave her all to save her son. So we get a mystical hand wave there. Couple this with Rey stabbing him and then healing him. Ren's character with Luke was that someone he loved/respected wanted him dead. The sword never had to actually land for it to cut through Ben's psyche. But to have his mother reach out on her deathbed, and then to have his force bonded dyad will him back to life using her own lifeforce was something of a breaking point.
Some fans also think that the "no" Ren shouted to Luke when he figured out Luke was projecting his image was not an angry "you tricked me" no,. But rather a "you're killing yourself by teaching me another lessons" realization no. So again Rian set up that moment for Ren to see that people do actually love him. That they don't want him dead. And that they are risking themselves for him. Luke, Leia, and Rey all risked their own lives trying to save him. It made the cracks open wide enough for his memory of another time to come through.
Two thoughts:
1: Tagging JJ Abrams was a mistake to begin with. He does good lead ins, he does great visuals mostly(lens flare cough cough), but his pay offs/finales have always been weak, and this trilogy needed a monster ending.
2: When you say at approx 21:20 "It was not as good as it could have been." I felt this was really the defining statement of the whole series. Just not as good as it could have been.
He's a decent director, but he's never been even slightly original. All his work is either a rip-off or incoprehensible.
It was a great fan fiction!
Oh wait, produced by Disney...
So, this is the most expansive fan fiction of the history of Hollywood.
The First Order in the Battlefront Game (which is canon) says they are as big as the Empire and they control multiple planets. So it is a Governing body but very poorly conveyed.
Honestly, I think that pic that showed both directors as children playing in a sandbox, building sandcastles and destroying each other's perfectly shows what happened here.
It's a shame that sth so childish tarnished a movie with worldwide coverage. An even bigger shame that it happened to such a name as Star Wars.
Honestly, I feel like this is what it's like to bring shame to your family name.
In my opinion Rian Johnson made the best and most interesting star wars movie and then everyone else just undid all of his work because they didn't like it.
I dont think it's fair to say that he 'tore down any sandcastles'
The Daily Express has an article where Daisy Ridley says Rian Johnson “didn’t keep anything from the first draft of episode 8”. JJ Abrams said in an interview “Episode 8 didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”
My take is that Rian decided to tell his own story rather than the story that was started in TFA, or at least take it in a different direction than Abrams intended. Abrams didn’t take the bait and instead played course-correction in RoS, leading to many of the issues you discuss.
Rian was brought on because he was an Indie Director who had new ideas. Disney wanted and then greenlight him showing new ideas because of the criticism received that TFA was a copy of ANH with a few name changes.
Blame him for visual choices or pacing. But don't forget the corporate overlords who was behind his hiring.
Imagine a 2019 where the endings of Star Wars and GoT didnt suck.
Sigh... what couldve been, right?
I'd rather imagine a 2019 in which Jerry Goldsmith and Elmer Bernstein were still alive.
so nothing interesting with finn again? thats sad.
Ikr. Think about he was are eyes into the stormtrooper's view. That was a good choice, it would have great to learn more on fin like, meeting his home, what became of it, who were his parents. But sadly no, so much potential for that character wasted
Have you seen how in China they delete scenes with Finn in them and minimize his pictures on posters and such?
He couldn't have a significant role due to him likely being axed from scenes to appease China.
I think you miss who Finn really is... he is trying so hard to be someone because he has no selfesteem whatsoever... in this movie not unlike Poe and Rey... but he feels even more insignificant because unlike the other two he actually is not special at all! He is as ordinary as one can be... he is the geek of the show but the talentless geek, his journey is about learning that he too can do something on his own... and not just trying to be helpless trying to care for his friends, and prove himself! He finds it in his female counterpart on Endor, but he will always be a cringefest, because that is who he represents!
He was annoying as hell, still running after Rey like a high school crash 🤦♀️ He wanted to tell her something all the time, but he didn’t. Thank goodness
Right it's a shame. And also why TRoS killed of Ren. Because SW doesn't know what to do with characters once they have a come to Jesus/Force moment.
TFA- Finn defects from the Stormtroopers after noticing that he is the bad guy. Determines his own identity and tries to keep his new friends alive despite them constantly getting into shenanigans
TLJ- Helps him to stop defecting from things - running away. And allows him to be the master of his own fate.
TRoS- Turns out he isn't that special, he still is chasing after everyone else instead of doing his own thing. And the implied need to constantly worry about someone you saw lift many bilders with their mind.
All of that work from TLJ was taken away from him in TROS- Two steps wayyy back.
They killed Kylo for wow factor but also because they couldn't figure out what to do with Finn's character after his own cross over from bad guy to good guy.
I think that the bones of this film aren’t fundamentally flawed, and I think this 100% could have been a satisfying end to the new trilogy. The only problem is that that hypothetical trilogy doesn’t exist. It began with the Force Awakens, but Rian Johnson killed it where it stood with the Last Jedi. This movie, to me, felt less like an effort in retconning TLJ out of existence and more like an attempt to do JJ Abram’s middle AND final film in his trilogy at once, because somebody else got in the way of his vision. It’s a frankly insane way to construct a trilogy and I can’t believe that potentially the largest piece of pop culture the world is currently invested in was so poorly planned and so easily disrupted. I think that The Last Jedi is an interesting film that did fascinating things with our core understanding of what a Star Wars film is - and I also think it should never have been put in the middle of the Skywalker saga.
Tom Morgan Exactly ! Poorly plan !!!
This is the perfect take. I love TLJ, but yes. You nailed it.
Should have just given Rian Johnson the trilogy.
This is the most coherent and intelligent ramble I’ve ever heard. I enjoyed it so much in the moment, but I had the same problems with it. And a lot of the moments fell flat.
The whole film felt like a checklist of fan service that was trying so hard to please people by playing on nostalgia without serving the story. 2 thirds of the movie is just "oh look! This is something you know!"
Say what you want about TLJ, but at least it was original, and I appreciate what it tried to do. JJ's movies feel more like a 200mil$ fan film by someone who knows star warsy-ish stuff.
This film needed more gungans
Don't you mean Goongas? 😉
Meesa like-ah dees!
the moment i heard palpatine laugh in the initial teaser trailer, i knew this was going to be bad fanfic. but i still had fun at the theater (just turn your brain off, and everything looks like a masterpiece).
rey has progressed more into a mary sue despite any intentions to avoid that.
in hindsight, the prequel trilogy was a tragedy of a boy turning to the dark side out of fear of losing the ones he loves, the original trilogy is the redemption story for that boy through his son who learns to conquer the darkness through acceptance....and the sequel trilogy is just the original trilogy but with a girl and nothing to conclude from earlier films and lots of fan-service-y easter eggs.
I didn't buy into Kylo Ren's arc. It happened too fast. At the beginning of the movie he wants to kill Rey then all of a sudden he has this internal monologue with Han and he's redeemed?
Ah, yes, Admiral Pride... They have such bad naming convention in this triology it's sad...
Hell Bent *Allegiant General Pryde
It's a shame that, despite my flaws with TFA and TLJ, they had a coherent thematic idea in process that flowed pretty well and TROS kinda of ignored it, it didn't feel like the culmination of the sequel trilogy, let alone even the saga
There are moments, but I find the movie more contrived and bland rather than anything more or less
I'm definitely not distraught over it, but I find it really hard to understand the writing process here, I would love to see something released, a book or documentary, about scrapped ideas and the process of writing TROS as well as other films
Space Jam Hard agree with you.
I guess i also agree with you, but it’s a bit strange to get the quality of a movie from their themes.
Also, The Last Jedi’s themes do anything but flow well with the story lol
Megane Man A lot of folks watch film for theme and meaning. That’s why I watch it. The lightsabers, the star fighters, all the SFX is just dressing the body of the work.
I understand a lot of folks just want escapism, comfort, and nostalgia. I appreciate those things too. But it’s not *why* I watch. I needs meaning.
TRoS doesn’t mean anything to me.
@@Mega2chan well to me, ever since the OT was expanded on, the immediate story and plot has always been very messy > but the thematic messages of star wars always stood strong and are timeless
the Skywalker Saga has been about family, hope, and bringing balance
EDIT: this ended up longer than I thought but TL;DR - Prequels > fall to dark > Originals > return to light > Sequels > balance
As the Prequel trilogy on an overall level was about the fall to the dark the Original trilogy was about the return to the light > but the message of the idea of balance was that you can't just disregard the dark side, and the very notion of Luke repeating the faults of the prequels was doomed from the start
the Sequel trilogy is all about balance, and as TFA on a meta level is a retread of ANH, it really shows how our heroes idolize the past so much, and believe doing what their "heroes" did would lead them to suceed, and they do! Until the Last Jedi, which shows destroying Starkiller base on a whim lead to the Resistence being located and practically entirely destroyed
As TLJ's main message is "Don't kill the past, but reinstate what the past meant" the direction of the "Jedi" order in that film was heading towards Grey
this is only more prevelant in Rey and Kylo's arcs which show the hero naturally drawn to the dark and the Villain naturally drawn to the light, and the ending of TROS only enforces that
but I never said the execution was great lol
@@glitchy000 I think TROS has a fair meaning but its really only apparent in the VERY end and the rest of the film's plot, character arcs, etc just disregard it
bad execution sadly but the message is there, although *barely*
Question:
The star destroyers fleet appearance; how long has palpatine been... dead?
And it is the secret base of the sith.
Sooo I'm guessing there was always an army there(shadowy figures in arena at the end?) So maybe it was just a matter of upgrading that army.
Btw! You are SO right about the fighting!! Thats exactly how it felt! Hhuuu... shudders.
They were the contingency plan. If the first order failed, Palpatine's final order will take over. Palpatine said that in the film.
My headcanon is that it was an audience of clones to watch his triumph.
I was really hoping that exactly the opposite would happen at the end. That Ben would be the one to left alive. That Rey would make this sacrifice. My point is he has turned to the Light again, but look at all the suffering that he brought upon the Galaxy. He has to atone for his sins. Turning good in one battle against Big Bad doesn't mean you're redeemed. That is so cheap.
I would've liked them to be both healing each other and trying to make the other survive.
Hux turns babyface :
dies instantly
Making this trilogy with no vision doomed it from the start.
Rey's arc is so bad, she has no weakness, even Superman has a weakness.
her only "weakness" is accidentally being too strong basically lol. Plus the reflecting lightning part at the end is sooo fucking bad. Mace windu was struggling to hold off palpatine but apparently all he needed was a second lightsaber lmao. Gosh I hate the sequel trilogy with a passion
Her weakness was believing in anything but herself (parents, Luke, legacies in general). She's basically a reflection of fanons, and that's what fanons don't like about her.
JJ shot himself in foot, Rian took the gun and shot him in the head. JJ survived and made TROS.
George Lucas offered them 41 years of Star Wars and plots to 7, 8 and 9,
Absolutely agree about the Kylo and Rey arcs! I also found the plot mostly convoluted and random, kind of all over the place.
One of the bigger problems with the new trilogy, aside from the lack of planning and terrible writing, is the stupid and dumb Humour.
Completely agree. Babu frik was so cringe worthy to me and the humour at tense scenes was terrible.
Yes! The "They fly now!" scene they released 2 weeks ago was god awful.
The real title should have been Rise of Palpatine. And yeah, there isn't a great lightsaber battle.
No, because in the end she identified herself as a Skywalker.
@@lamarravery4094 I identified myself as a war bull with three tails. That's make any sense? No, just like the movie.
Like it or not, she isn't a Skywalker, hell, she isn't even adopted.
@@mray4784 The Skywalkers trained her in the ways of the force, so she identified with the Skywalkers. Palpatine never trained her.
@@lamarravery4094 My karate teachers train me too, I don't identified myself as a karate teacher.
@@mray4784 This whole trilogy has pretty much the same message as the OT: it doesn't matter where you came from, what's important is where you're going. The point of her saying that she's a Skywalker is that she's carrying on in Luke and Leia's spirit and shunning her actual ancestry.
I watched the movie yesterday and maybe by me ignoring any possible spoilers etc. I did actually have fun during the movie...
I see the biggest problem in the inability to create a cohesive story out of the different visions of J.J. and Johnson.
I'd like to think that a lot of the shitstorm and toxicity in the fandom could have been avoided if J.J. made his story and then Johnson got his shot to create a new chapter. Not mixing the two
@UCzGlMQ5S9AM0Qu2vQWWVlbw You are absolutely right. Disliking a movie isn't toxic at all. But some in the fandom have a certain sense of entitlement that led them into trying to force their disliking (and also liking) of these movies onto others. And the sexist and racist backlash towards Ridley, Tran and and in the beginning also Boyega under the guise of "that's not Star Wars, I know because I'm a fan and everyone who disagrees with me is no real fan" - that's toxic fandom. Everybody should have their own opinion, I personally think that Disney made several bad decisions, but art isn't objective and I am actually happy for everyone who enjoys Star Wars - because that's the point
Palpatine is now dr. Evil from Austin Powers. And the Death Star Tech Star Destroyers are sharks with lasers on their heads
Daisy Ridley aside, the character of "Rey" was flawed from start to finish, in part because of her flawlessness. Adam Driver aside, the character of "Kylo Ren" was also flawed from start to finish, and the "layers" you and others mention is actually discombobulated underdevelopment, with the opening scene setting him up as a villain and then trying haphazardly to redeem him (ala Anakin Skywalker) since the "love" between Rey and Kylo never comes across as authentic or meaningful, unlike the father-son bond between Anakin and Luke in the Return of the Jedi.
They should have had 4 movies to salvage this. The way to have done this would be to have Rey fall to the Darkside and Kylo move to the Lightside. Rey is in communique with Palpatine's Force Ghost. Snoke was a clone so he is alive. Luke is still alive in the flesh. He defeats Snoke and Kylo fights Rey to turn her to the Light. It's not perfect but at least leave the OT Canon untouched.
I liked it! It was fun. But I don't have an emotional nostalgic connection to the series since I watched it for the first time when I was like, 19? So I just think it's a fun series, I'm a causal watcher
Ophelia i enjoyed it and I’d consider myself a fanboy of Star Wars. Hey ho.
I'm a casual watched and found it terrible. That's probably the writer in me and the want of good works in the world. Oh well, time to move on...
Just giving a character a lightsaber means nothing. Fin was able to use a lightsaber against Kylo, and he wasn't a force sensitive.
He is now
@@DirkPiddlemark lol what?
@@upg5147 He senses things in the force several times throughout the movie.
@@devinlyne199 He's a force sensitive as anyone else. It's more just bull ex machina
I was waiting for your review to actually watching the movie or not... Thanks !!
That feeling when you'd much rather see whatever George Lucas came up with for the sequel trilogy.
How George Lucas made Star Wars movie:
1. Good Story
2. Character Development
3. Plot Twist
4. John Williams
5. Continuity
How Rian Johnson made Star Wars movie:
1. Plot Twist
2. John Williams
How J.J. Abrams made Star Wars movie:
1. Copy Paste
2. John Williams
How Rian Johnson made Star Wars movie:
1. Subvert our expectations
2................
Even my issues with the sequels, GL made 1 good Star Wars movie (with help from his wife at the time). ESB and ROTJ had different directors and more writers involved.
@@GM_MorganV With Lucas supervising. Do you really think he'd get sequel rights from Fox and then put up his own money only to leave everything be? He was breaking a cardinal rule of Hollywood: NEVER SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY.
Try reading Skywalking for the real history of the Rebellion trilogy.
I think a lot of the problems come from the story having no setup in the second movie, and its trying to bring the whole series into a big climax, but it has to build its own foundation for the story.
Thank you! I've seen people say they loved the fight choreography, but it was, IMHO, absolutely horrible. Well below par.
I think trying to rescue chewie but accidentally killing him (but not really) was a failure in Rey's part, as well as almost losing to Kylo on the wreckage but saved by Leia in the last second
the one thing I'll give the prequels is that they had a single vision, an endpoint, a purpose beyond money.
One of the best things about LJ is the action hero men from the 90s (portrayed by Luke, Poe, and Finn) go through development to be less toxic.
In a lot of ways, RoS provided an epilogue where we see that they have internalized the lessons. However, it doesn't seem that Abrams learned the lesson, as Rey goes off lone gunman style and doesn't have consequences, Poe and Finn get heavily no homo'd, Rose gets completely sidelined, etc.
Despite that, it felt Star Wars, and for the 9 movie Palpatine Saga that has been part of my entire life, the ups and downs, it felt a fantastic finale. There is a completion that I feel.
It had problems (pacing, plothole), but no more than most other entried in the saga. And as a finale to a trilogy of trilogies, it can't try to be a stand alone, so it fits in well.
And, of course, we will never not have Star Wars movies, so I look forward to more outside the rebellion years.
I actually never thought about the personnel logistics of crewing all those star destroyers. Not that the movie makes ANY attempt to explain how Palpatine could have this fleet, but thinking about the literal MILLIONS of people required to operate that fleet just makes the whole scenario so much more ridiculous. At least the prequels bothered to explain where the surprise armies (clones and droids) came from and how they were trained/supplied without much of anyone noticing.
I agree with you so much on most of your points. The only 2 things I don't agree with are: 1 - Kylo's redemption - while I enjoyed the relationship between him and Rey and could tell they were going to go down that path, the actual point where he 'turned to the light' didn't make sense to me. His mother reaches out via Force once and that's it? What makes this moment different to any other moment in the previous movies where someone has reached out to him. What made him decide? Does he even know? Or is he just 'following his feelings'. Also, I literally thought Leia was reaching out to distract him so that Rey could defeat him but then Rey heals him and I felt very confused. Like does Rey somehow know he's turned back? Or did she just do it because she wanted to, without considering the effects on the galaxy? I had never wanted him to be redeemed but I was open to it if done well. After that point his redemption did work emotionally for me. The 2nd thing is the Force healing. To me it felt too conveniently set up this movie and it's like 'why has no one done this before? Seems very convenient' Maybe if they had made more of a big deal about it being something that was a 'Sith power' then it would make more sense. Though to me it makes no sense that Rey's palpatine heritage would make her spontaneously manifest Sith powers like force lightning or healing. Sith/Jedi is afterall simply a religion/beliefs/lifestyle choice. Sith and Jedi are not inherently different, they're all just Force sensitive.
I enjoyed some of the moments in the film and I did enjoy some of the (predictable) emotional payoffs, but overall it was just...disappointing. Which is pretty sad because I liked both Force Awakens and Last Jedi and I'm certain this movie is not what was originally intended but the result of them bowing to what they think audiences did/didn't like. And my god the fan pandering reached ridiculous new heights! The medallion at the end for Chewie was the last straw! I mean seriously, how did that make any sense within universe?? Also the pacing felt off which I don't expect from Abrams. There's just no room to breathe/soak in any emotional events.
Anyway apologies for the very long ramble! I'll be very surprised if anyone reads all of this lol. I just feel frustrated because I really think it could've been good if they just stuck with whatever their original plan was. I mean maybe it would've still been bad, but at least it would have been coherent and presumably be someone's clearer vision rather than just bland pandering.
Just also wanted to add that if Rey did just heal him because she wanted to without knowing that he would turn good, that would actually have been a VERY fascinating character moment for her! And would really lend to the idea that she might turn to the Dark side because she selfishly is willing to risk dooming the galaxy for personal reasons (and for someone who objectively deserves to die too). And all they had to do was make it clear that she didn't know he had turned good. Add a little scene that shows she feels guilty/regrets/still expects him to be evil next time he shows. Plus they could've made it so this act of love/compassion/mercy/faith is what ultimately redeems Kylo (in combination with Leia and everything else), which to me makes a lot more sense. And maaaybe this is what they intended? But I don't think so based on how it's done. And if that's the intention it was communicated very poorly...Sorry for second ramble!
There is a very clear tell tale in the recent trilogy. I knew Kylo was going to be redeemed when his first took off his helmet in the Force Awakens. He was handsome. I mean he had no Sith deformations, no red/yellow eyes or veins or lesions etc. I feel hired when Snoke said he was going to complete his training at the end I figured if he doesn’t have said deformations in The Last Jedi then he’s going to be redeemed.
Same happened with Reeva in Obi-Wan. Moment I saw here I knew she would be redeemed too.
It really was a mess. Next time they should probably have a game plan before creating a trilogy with so much history and lore.
If you’re a Star Wars fan all these years. You will love the movie but get ready for some disappointing moment at the end. The title doesn’t seem fit with the ending.
I get all your points. Absolutely.
But i still enjoyed it a great deal.
And i went in expecting the worst.
Great video. I wanted to thumbs up, but I noticed you're likes were exactly 777. I still did.
I wonder if the fight scenes between Rey and Kylo were like them attacking their weapons instead of each other because they didn't actually want to hurt each other. That's why Rey immediately healed him when she did hurt him. Like when two people who care about each other are angry but they don't really want to hurt the other.
I can't agree more with you. The more I think of it, the more things come up that I do not understand. For example, why Rey does not vanish inmediately when she dies, and Ben does? Looks like as if they wanted to give no chance to him.
I didn't hate this movie, but I had zero passion walking in and about that much walking out.
We got rid of the expanded universe/legends for this.... wow.... totally not worth it.
Now Legacy is coming back.
Thank you for clearly expressing the vague dissatisfaction I was feeling after watching it.
I really liked seeing you think out loud, and, though you were far too kind to The Last Jedi, I very much enjoyed (and agree with) your analysis.
By the way, I think one of the reasons you didn't feel anything with C3PO is that they already "killed" Chewie only to bring him back *immediately*. If they had actually killed Chewie, then you would have gone into the C3PO memory wipe thing on the edge of your seat.
Back before TLJ came out there were theories about Rey being a Palpatine, and I loved the idea. It meant they could explore an interesting path for the story, but also use it as a way to connect the disney trilogy to the previous films. Having Palps come backwas completely unnecessary, and makes Anakin's sacrifice pointless. If they managed to do Dark Empire the right way it would work, especially as long as Anakin returns. You can have one or the other, but not both.
Palpatine's return fit my Snoke theory to a T. He should've still looked like a clone Snoke with McDiarmid's voice, though.
So glad I did not accidentally see the text under the video in the home feed before I saw the movie.
I'd like to remind everyone that it originally took a space station the size of a moon to be able to house the power needed to destroy an entire planet.
So force healing has been a thing in the legends canon and was a specifically a light side power. Just to clear that up
Let's not forget someone doesn't always turn to the dark side out of hate. Some do out of Love. Look at Anakin.
I agree with almost everything you said, I just came out of the theater and I just have this feeling that of being lost and nothing made sense and every convenient plot was used.
I think a fair bit of the missing parts with not everything being closed is down to trying to fix a train wreck. With one film.
I personally think they did pretty good pulling it back to a conclusion, though I do agree with a lot of the criticism with the characters and plot holes
As someone that tends to hate retcons, I think it was good thing they tried to undo the mistakes and themes of TLJ. Because that movie made so many incongruous character, plot, and thematic choices that it's too divorced from anything else Star Wars. The only hope for a decent capstone movie, besides making a whole new Episode VIII, was to perform retcons. Continuing it made no sense.
And I don't understand people that have an issue with Rey being related to another character we know. Mostly because only one family lineage was ever there in the movies: the Skywalkers. That's it. Everyone else already "came from nowhere" and were often vitally important to the plot. Personally, I would rather have her be the child of some random Jedi who survived the Jedi Purge, or something along those lines, just to justify her innate power and skills. And to provide character opportunities for her.
I haven't seen the movie, but I can't imagine the fight choreography can be worse than the throne room scene in TLJ. I'll just recommend Shadiversity's video for why that's so bad.
But those nitpicks aside, really liked the video. Always love to hear your perspectives man.
21:00 Things are **happy-ning**?
I will borrow that, thank you!
Rey, I am your father.
personally think that ros introduced some interesting ideas that could have been nice and cool to see. like rey being related to palpetine in some way is a cool concept for me (ros executed this crappily by just saying hey its a thing now rather than being foreshadowed). also alot of the opening stuff could have been used in last jedi, such as exploring more of reys struggle with the dark side in more tangible ways.
overall disappointment in the fact i saw cool ideas that were more of used as throw away responses to the last jedi rather than part of a thought out trilogy.
Rey getting this late is pointless. She already beat Kylo Ren twice, she used mind tricks and she could sense other's feelings.
When I see a story made wrong, it really makes me want to write something better, then I start writing and fail at the basics
I 100% agree with you. I just saw the film and was disappointed at all the lost opportunities. Glad to hear you feel the same
You came up with good points. I agreed with all of them. I was disappointed by the main storyline but the score and the visuals were awesome. It was an enjoyable watch but as a Star Wars fan I was unsatisfied.
Well I guess, enjoyed it from the middle on and appreciated that they really tried t make ray intresting.
The best part however was that chewie finally got his medal, man that made me cry harder then anyt
Just as a film, I did enjoy it.
As a die hard Star Wars fan, analyzing it and looking at it as part of the bigger picture, I have quite a few issues with it.
Palpatine coming back wasn’t necessary in the slightest, but by God did they make him unsettling to see. That part I really liked.
I really liked how they handled Rey and Kylo’s “relationship”. The connection through the Force, their interactions, I thought it was well done.
Rey being a Palpatine is fine as a concept, I guess. When I originally sat down and thought out all the different theories, I came to the conclusion Rian Johnson gave us; her parents are unimportant or we haven’t met them. And I liked that. And while I’m still technically right in that we never met them, it raises a lot more questions that I seriously want answered. Namely, when the hell and why the hell did Palpatine find time or reason to father a child?
I didn’t want Kylo to be redeemed, but how they did it actually changed my mind on it. Major love for bringing Harrison back for that moment by the way.
The scene that carried the biggest emotional punch for me was Leia’s death. I cried. I knew it was coming and I still cried.
Visually the film looks great. I’ll agree there.
I’m very happy that they fixed Rose being a bumbling idiot. I’m sorry but I hated Rose in TLJ. Nothing against Kelly Marie Tran naturally, she did fine with what she was given.
There were a lot of moments where it felt like the film was rushing through stuff just cause it had so much to do. It feels like too much for a single film.
The barrage of fan service was...nice, I guess. But it feels like them trying to win back some of what was lost in TLJ. And I actually liked TLJ.
This trilogy suffered from having two different directors and no coherent or planned out story. They dropped the ball on this. Hell, I even think them doing a sequel trilogy was a hinderance to them. Cause this trilogy doesn’t feel like a continuation, it feels like bad fan fiction with some cool ideas.
With that said, my biggest complaint is the last battle with Palpatine. The whole “I am all of the Sith” doesn’t really make sense to begin with, but then taking that mixed with Rey ending his threat once and for all kind of gives Anakin and the original six a giant middle finger. At least that’s how I feel about it. Anakin was the Chosen One meant to destroy the Sith. By bringing Palpatine back from the dead and making him “all the Sith” and having Rey kill him they’re basically undoing what Anakin did. They’re rewriting the prophecy.
But at the end of all of this, my two biggest joys are actually outside the film. The fact we can now get out from under the shadow of the Skywalker saga for some original content, and the sheer joy in sitting in the theater with my lovely girlfriend and both humming along to the music. My first ever opening day showing for Star Wars, and I shared it with her. Worth it to me.
Did Palpatine create his offspring via midi-chlorian manipulation? And how did he lose that child, who grew up to birth Rey? He did not watch his own child's career with great interest.
Palpatine being all the Sith fit my Snoke theory to a T. Jedi fade into the Force as a collective. It's only (un)natural that the Sith would not be able to join the Force and remain tormented in purgatory. It was the double lightsaber trick that made me go "wait, that's all that had to happen?" (or were the sabers imbued and channeled with Anakin/Luke/Leia's energy). Rey ridding the Emperor doesn't bother me because, even though I enjoyed it, it's not canon to me. It fits this trilogy, but not the Saga. I don't need everything to be canon to be a fun film.
The best scene for me was Chewie's breakdown. Imagine losing those you love and being helpless to save them. I had to defy gravity itself to keep my tear ducts in line.
PS: Did you catch Wedge's cameo? The only reason I did was by reading Resistance Reborn first, which explains how he joined the Resistance.
Alan Smith-Emerson You raise a valid point, cause if Vader’s vision in a recent comic storyline is true we know Palpatine is capable of doing that. But that still raises questions I want answers to. Namely why did he create a kid? And like you said, how did he lose them?
Good stuff calling the Snoke bit. As for the lightsabers, even though there’s no real proof of it and I don’t think it’s a thing that can happen, we can say she was channeling their energy through the sabers to make it cooler. And that’s more or less how I’m viewing this trilogy, it’s its own separate thing and the story ended with Return of the Jedi. That way I can still view it as a fun film. But on a side note Baby Yoda still exists as far as I’m concerned.
I felt so bad for Chewie. He’s had it the worst this trilogy. I just want to give the big fur ball a hug even though he both towers over me and could crush me.
I did catch the Wedge cameo. Like you I knew it might happen cause of Resistance Reborn.
Side note, how many of the Jedi voices did you catch? I heard Anakin, Luke, Mace Windu, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon.
Alan Smith-Emerson Come to think of it, Palpatine doing the midi-chlorian trick would have effectively created a “second chosen one.” Someone to rival Vader in power.
But that still raises a whole bunch of questions. Was Palpatine trying to create a rival for Vader? If it was the midi-chlorian trick, wouldn’t that effectively make Anakin his son as well, and therefore Luke his grandson, and Kylo his great grandson?
This opens up a rather large rabbit hole to fall in.
Beyond just going in and expecting more, the film had me feeling like it was centering around a profound theme, right to the ending when it just... didn't. Dualism in the force was alluded to in elements of the story, and several scenes had imagery eliciting that notion (and rather beautifully, imo). Kylo Ren finally acknowledges his humanistic, even compassionate emotions (grief, remorse) as he throws his red light saber into the ocean, while Rey finally allows herself to feel and express anger as she flings the blue light saber into the fire. Kylo comes from a "light" family but chooses to turn to the dark side, while Rey was born into a "dark" family but has forged her own path in the light. The two of them recognize the strengths of the other side and use them together to defeat the evil enemy. Surely, now the lineages of Skywalker and Palpatine will reconcile and together lead a new generation of Jedi who maintain balance in the force synergistically instead of fighting each other, right? But... no, Kylo dies and Rey becomes a Skywalker and yay! the light side has triumphed over the dark once again. I came away feeling rather deflated, or like the story is left hanging without a conclusion. I'm going with the yin/yang, harmonization version in my head canon anyway.
I find it weird how people latch on to the idea that Kylo was being honest about Ray's parents being nobody.
1. How/Why the heck would he know?
2. He was pretty clearly trying to be hurtful in that scene.
Can we just replace this movie with The Last Jedi 2?
I think we have had enough last jedi to last 2 lifetimes. Such an embarrassing move for Disney
Claire Rose I liked it, but it does suck they clearly didn’t have a plan for this trilogy. Which ok, the og trilogy was spitballed too but they never originally planned for a trilogy in the first place, so for spitballing they knew how to cover their tracks a lot better. Here, clearly nothing was planned going in and that’s a shame.
For me when I left the theater I was of a state in which my first response at the end was "this is an ending I can be content with" but as I think on the movie more the more I find the points I enjoyed being nods to the original trilogy and a un satisfaction with what was supposed to be the new story though I will be honest (and I never believed I would say this) but as the months leading up to episode 9 passed I found myself in a state of "it's time for starwars movies to end" which is sad for me because I've always been a big fan of starwars but I think it was my realization that nothing I enjoy can go on forever. (sorry if I rambled)
it's basically impossible to try and fix a trilogy in the last movie, it was doomed from the start and so they filled it with things to try to get the online critics of The Last Jedi to stop. and yeah Rei is a Mary Sue because she never fails. Not only that, she never struggles, not even morally. That's how Mary Sue's work, or rather don't.
Haven't seen the movie yet but have seen the leaks - not sure if I'm interested as it sounds silly. Here's my take on how they could have made the film work:
I always believed that Rey was Palpatine's grand daughter and Luke's daughter too - only this bloodline explains her powers.
Here's how it works: After the RotJ Luke would have found Palpatine's daughter who had been imprisoned by her father (because he's paranoid about her learning the Force but wants her alive as a contingency). Luke doesn't kill her (as she's not guilty of anything) but ends up taking her under his guidance (she's potentially too powerful to be left to wander freely). Eventually, in Luke's final defeat of Palpatine and all he stood for, they have a child together and Luke starts to teach this child in the ways of the Force, recognising that she needs to be trained.
However, Snoke starts whispering in the outer regions, and Luke's wife / lover takes a young Rey and hides her as far away from Luke as she can (Snoke could have tricked her into believing that she will grow up to be a new dark side user who wants to dominate the galaxy, so she hides their daughter to stop her from being trained further in the Force so she won't turn into this new evil - much as her father hid her away. When she does this, Luke's wife / lover erases Rey's memories before Jakku using her own Force powers).
Years pass, and Luke's wife eventually returns to him as he trains Kylo. Again, Snoke whispers to Kylo, luring him to the darkness, and when Kylo turns on Luke he also kills Luke's wife / lover when he destroys the Jedi temple.
This explains perfectly why Luke exiled himself to Ach-To and gave up the Force - it's simply cost his family too much: his father fell to the Dark Side and brought about the demise of a great Republic, his daughter has been taken and hidden by his wife / lover, who was then killed by his own nephew . . . proper Shakespeare tragedy.
Of course, then along came Rian Johnson and kind of sank that idea when Luke didn't recognise Rey at all or even guess at who she could be (unless Luke decided that he wanted to maintain his dead wife's idea of keeping Rey away from the Force - but it's a bit late by then).
Still, this idea actually works as it links the 2 families together that are the core of Star Wars. In fact, anything else falls short of giving the fans the explanation they deserve I think: it redeems Luke's character after the Last Jedi disaster (how he brought Palpatine's daughter to the light side of the Force through patience and goodness, and how her hiding their daughter and then being murdered by Kylo was shattering to him), it explains her Force abilities and why she was hidden, and just finishes the trilogy off nicely.
However, seems like the good folk at Disney and JJ had other ideas....what a missed opportunity in cinematic history!
This movie just negated all the other ones. Not to mention all the flaws it already had. Dumpster fire! Thanks JarJarAbrams!
So, this is a deep pull and probably unintentional (and I know I'm like a year and half late) but there actually KIND OF is a precedent for "all the Sith live in me," but it's from the decanonized Expanded Universe, specifically the very end of the Darth Bane Trilogy.
Does that make it good? Eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhno.
I don't agree with Rey dosen't have moments where she thinks about her dark side, her blowing up the transporter atempting to kill Kylo talking to Fin about it (even tho she dismisses the fact she isn't the one they expect her to be)
Her confliction with the dark side is very understandable for me, i faced something inside of me that i didn't want to be a part of, yet it is. Coming to terms of my sutuation didn't need dialog. It was just me spaceing out sometimes, which she does to.
At the end you find yourself accepting yourself and yet firming yourself and i think thats just what she did and they represented that with her lightsaber
the reasons the story doesn't work are as follows:
1. Their characters are not allowed to fail in meaningful ways, their characters have to be fully perfect before the story begins and so the failures they do have are going to just be a matter of 'getting stronger'\
2. they didn't (and don't) respect the universe that came before them. they don't keep the characters from before, instead they make up their own characters and have those actors play them. it feels alien and it feels wrong
3. they confuse fan service from respect for the internal rules for the universe. they don't follow the logic of Star Wars, instead they throw in a few characters with the right names and say "yeah we love George Lucas's star wars, look it's R2"
Yellow lightsabers are used by Jedi. You see them in TCW during the Ahsoka leaving the order episode.
I really liked it. I didn't feel it was a retcon of TLJ at all except that Snoke wasn't important at all, but Johnson more or less made that abundantly clear when he had him killed without ceremony. Palpatine's return makes sense since he was the student of a Sith Lord that knew how to live forever. Was it rushed? Yes, but it had to be given the fact that Johnson's movie didn't foreshadow anything and he refused to explain anything. Why anyone believed Kylo Ren when he told Rey she was nobody is beyond me. He sounded like an abusive boyfriend. You're not important, you're no one. I'm important and you're important to me, thats your only value. I do believe her being a Palpatine was teased in Last Jedi. Luke feels her power then looks scared. He says "I've only ever felt raw power like this once before..." and then he gets away from her. We all thought this was a lame reference to Ben Solo, but it turns out he was talking about Palpatine, which makes sense why she dove for the dark and why Luke would be scared of that. Is it a narrative mess? Yes. I also don't care. It was great fun, made enough sense to survive my sense of disbelief, and tied the series together without following Johnson's terrible direction. His vision of the future of Star Wars was downright wrong. JJ Abrams was good, but they made a mistake hiring a different director in the middle.
I was like where did the Sith officers come from how many people live there