@@SoCalFlyingMonkey my experience is peoples fear of icing is a learned behavior from antiquated FAA videos. Those who have experience in it will mostly say it’s generally not that bad. Keep toying with it just a little and you’ll become more comfortable because there will be a time where yo get caught in a situation will you have no choice but the climb or to send through a layer and accrue heavy icing.
Just passed my PPL checkride yesterday. I wanted to thank you personally for being one of two guys who inspired this journey, along with @LewdixAviation I can’t thank you guys enough. Please keep the great content coming!
Omar, thanks for this message. Hearing that our creative effort had a small part in inspiring your aviation journey is so rewarding. Congrats on your new certification and hope you continue to fly as often as possible!!!
My only observation...when planning a long XC with weather as a consideration, especially at the destination, please don't forget to take into account the missed approach procedures and aircraft icing capability. Specifically, the missed at KSEZ shows a climb to 12,000 which probably would've put you into a higher instance of icing in a non-FIKI approved aircraft.
yes definitely a good tip! there was no way I was doing that missed. The forecast for Sedona was for VFR weather clouds about 4000' AGL. I was fairly certain I wouldnt even need to fly the approach at all since the ceilings were so high (forecast and reported) but just wanted the IFR clearance to stay high over terrain until the Cottonwood/Sedona valley. But definitely need to consider the missed for icing (and climb performance/gradient)
Great video. Just some thoughts. Prior to entering an area of icing conditions, I’ll turn pitot heat on, heater defroster on, and carb heat on. Just to be proactive. As far as flying the approach, I’ll leave flaps up and fly normal approach speed which I’m assuming is around 90-110 on your aircraft? This will put you farther from the critical angle of attack, thus putting you at a greater margin of safety above a stall condition. And land flaps up. Unfortunately, you will get ice at some point in your IFR flying career.
All great advice and I had my eye on that gas cap. Slurpee precip rolling across the wing is not icing per se. The cap would have iced up first. You did real well, respect using the O^2 at fl100. You telegraph a bit of uncertainty to your PX, I would work on it. I used to do that too until someone commented that it made them more nervous. Keep up the good work.
While in Sedona we also went to Jerome. What a great place. And a great restaurant there. It may have been the Clinkscale but not for sure. It has been awhile.
Loved the video! I visited Jerome on a trip to visit my sister in PHX a few years ago, and it was such a cool experience. I loved learning about all the old smuggling tunnels running under the city.
Thanks so much! You might enjoy the IFR approach videos as well. I have found just making them super useful to stay refreshed on IFR procedures. Hope you enjoy the IFR training. It's hard but super rewarding!
Yes love the editing style. That’s the industry influence coming out in your videos to the other aviation RUclips guys who are really good too. But I think you have an edge on editing and camera work
I was just in Jerome the day of the Tool show in PHX. Flew my brother up to Cottonwood (my first passenger BTW) and spent some time up in Jerome checking it out. Great video, Eric. Great podcast on P2P too!
I was on a commercial flight to SLC on the Jan 30th and I saw Sedona out the window, thought about your video with the door coming open there. Good stuff man! fun channel.
Great video!! Yea my family does the same thing. I feel am wasting my vacation! I like the black wing tips idea. Hopefully one day I will remember that when I get my bird.
Another great video. With over 42 years of flying in the northwest (eastern Wash and Oregon) over the Cascades, I have experienced more "ice time" than I would ever wish on anyone. Seriously, I didn't see anything in the video that I would call icing. Chris Brown made some good suggestions - Pitot heat (don't wait until see ice), frequent carb heat, etc. However I am going to take this opportunity to mention where ice most often forms and can cause the most concern. That is on the prop! I don't know why more pilots are not warned of that, but with the rotation there is abundant cooling and constant moisture will cause a quite rapid formation of ice. Watch your RPM's as you will see them drop before you see the ice start to be thrown off. When and if this happens you must get down or alter course to get out of the conditions causing it. Climbing is usually not possible unless you notice it very early. By the way Sedona is also one of my wife's and I favorite vacation places. Happy Flying!
Nice video. I fly a Cherokee 180 with steam gauges and no autopilot. I enjoyed you talking out loud about your decision making process. I want that panel! Even a simple autopilot removes so much workload from IFR flying. For example, when you were looking at the approaches into Sedona, you didn’t have to worry about spatial disorientation and keeping the shiny side up…. especially having so much precious cargo on board (and I don’t mean the mountain bike!). I will have to plan a trip to Sedona. It looks beautiful. I am based out of KLHM in northern CA.
The autopilot is a big help. I hand flew this plane on steam gauges on long trips and long IMC trips and the autopilot really makes it a lot easier. I was able to look out the window for a long period of time to look for ice and not have to focus on keeping straight and level and tracking the course
I am early in my private training, but icing scares me flying IFR. Probably because it is one of the things I understand the least. Thanks for the educational and inspiring videos.
If you see ice, climb and turn around. Vigilance in a non FIKI airplane is key. Don’t let it get ahead of you. If it’s freezing outside and there’s visible moisture, always expect ice. Always check the weather products as well. Check what altitude freezing levels are at and avoid them if there’s moisture present. If you think you have ice, don’t lower flaps as well.
The learning definitely never stops. Icing is not well covered in private pilot training and in the instrument training I think there are deficiencies in the training programs for it.
It’s just ONE guy being crappy in the comments section. Don’t let that get to you. And great well reasoned responses to that criticism as well. Looks like you are doing a fine job staying safe.
Geat video as always! Really enjoy your mix between aviation and your family adventures. I’ve only had a single minor encounter with icing during IFR training. Noticed that it really shows on the windscreen early. Take care and always have an out
Cool, I'm wearing a shirt from Jerome now. We'd like to fly there some time but for my distance commercial is better. I know what you're saying about everyone else sleeping in while you're ready for the trails! LOL
Great videos. Keep them coming! Right now my personal minimums include not going into IMC if it's freezing outside. But I can imagine on a longer trip getting into unanticipated clouds at high altitude and having to worry about ice. I fly out of Camarillo, and plan to check out Sedona in the next month or two. My next trip is Las Vegas, and I'm toying with the idea of taking a Warrior into KLAS. But that seems a bit intimidating so I'll likely go into the easier KHND airport.
I’ve flown a Cherokee 180 and my 6 in there. Just file IFR and they’ll slot you in. Be on your game and keep speed up on approach. You’ll have plenty of time to slow down once you have the runway made. It’s huge!!!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Thanks for the tip and the little nudge that I needed to give it a shot! I landed at KLAS with zero issues or delays. Amazing view. I’m thinking VFR for the departure though.
The IFR clearance didn't make much sense to me. It seemed like you had plenty of visibility and the clouds were high enough above the terrain to remain VFR safely?
Thank you as always for sharing the video and education. I am curious why you canceled IFR? Given the degrading weather and ceilings, would it not have been wiser to not cancel in the event you had to go missed?
A missed would have been a regular VFR go around. No way was I going to climb to 12,000 feet into the almost certain ice up there. The ceilings were pretty high over the airport like 4000 to 5000 feet AGL and I could see that it was all non convective precip not developing quickly so I felt high confidence in VFR ceilings and visibility, even with a little rain- I could see the airport and had so much forward vis as you can see in the video. I cancelled as a courtesy to other pilots since I would be tying up the airspace staying under IFR control and it would save me from having to call on my phone (usually forgetting to do so) once on the ground at the uncontrolled airport. So cancelling before switching to CTAF seemed to make the most sense for convenience all around.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey lol the other pilots know to wait. Why would you rush an IFR cancellation? Lol Jesus. That’s hilarious. It’s an iffy weather day and you put yourself in a bad position to be courteous? Be careful about those early IFR cancellations and class E surface areas. Most pilots are completely fine with waiting until you’re on the ground safely to cancel IFR if you need it. “I could see the airport with good forward vis” what about cloud clearances?
There is a multi part video series (I think maybe 8-10 videos) covering filming your own flights complete with GoPro settings, gear, audio technique, multicam post production and color grading...2 annuals on my airplane with multi part video series detailing the maintenance during each annual, maybe half a dozen full IFR flights/approaches with charts as graphics, and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't make it into the regular videos (like a full detail on the Oxygen setup, extended briefings from the Pinch Hitter series with my wife, and some other fun cutting room floor stuff). The other awesome part is our Discord chat sever where we have a great community chatting every day about all kinds of aviation related things. The whole thing has been super fun.
Rejecting the higher altitude was a smart thing to do. So many times, the rules and practices of ATC get us pilots in trouble. Very smart to avoid high terrain on the approach. Always remember, you are the pilot in command. My personal opinion is stay out of the clouds, or precipitation, if there's any possibility of icing. I think you did a great job overall.
Great job? Seriously? I strongly disagree. He got lucky rejecting the altitude. They let him cruise at a westbound IFR altitude which is hardly ever the case. What was Plan B if that controller said “need you at 11,000, what’s your intentions?” He was behind this flight every step of the way. He entered clouds a few times knowing it was icing conditions. His entire family was on board. I’d hardly call that “great job.”
@@LimaFoxtrot Sorry, but accepting 11,000 would most likely ASSURED icing. As long as ATC had him on radar at 10K, they could provide separation. If they REQUIRED him to go to 11K, which I doubt they would, he could always cancel and return to a lower VFR altitude. While he might have seemed "behind this flight", it was because the weather, as usual, was not as predicted. I think he made the right choices, in particular the route over lower terrain on approach, and staying lower. He was never in any real danger and flew the GPS although he cancelled IFR. A good practice in those marginal conditions. I personally would never mess with icing, but I don't think he was expecting it and did the best he could for the situation.
@@azcharlie2009 I’m not saying to accept 11,000. What I’m saying is you should know the MEA in the area and understand what you’re going to get before you get it. You know you can’t accept 11k, however, you also know that’s what ATC wants and will assign you. You’re rolling the dice hoping they’ll let you cruise at 10k.
@@LimaFoxtrot I agree. Preparation is the key. There are a lot of things we should know, but sometimes miss something, or we get thrown a curve ball. Especially with weather. I would not have flown that day. Or, I would have diverted to better weather. Get there-itis gets a lot of people killed. In this case, he was lucky the weather wasn't worse.
@@azcharlie2009 He could have flown VFR and cleared everything in that quadrant at 8200. I don't know why he was set on flying so high if there was any chance of ice up there. It seems like he only filed in case the weather was lower at the destination, which it wasn't. Much ado about nothing.
I was staring at the contraption between the two front seats forever trying to figure out what it was used for on the plane. Then i realized it's just a bicycle without a tire.
So cool! Thanks for sharing. I’ll be flying to Sedona from the east in few weeks so, as you have been there many times, do you mind to give some recommendations? How many days, best places to go, hotels, car rentals, etc. whatever you can give me is highly appreciated. Thaaaaankssss
call the airport to rent a car from there. they have a couple older cars. Otherwise Enterprise in West Sedona can pick you up at the airport. theyre a 5 minute drive. you cant go wrong pretty much anywhere you stay in Sedona. Lots of great hiking trails - again cant go wrong. I have another Sedona video on my channel (about a jacket being sucked out the door). In the descriotion there are timestamps with location names so you can see places you might want to go. Bell Rock is always a hit with my girls...
she hasn't flown too much since her pinch hitter course but i'm trying to get her to take the control more. I'd love for her to do another day or two of training to stay refreshed.
I was following the Papi on the instrument approach which will take you right to the aiming point- the large white lines on the runway...typically 1000 ft down the runway. This looks to be where I touched down on this approach. It's best to be a little high at Sedona since you can get downdrafts due to the airport being on a mesa. But still, I was just about right on the glidepath (maybe a little high according to the Papi) but still touched down at the aim point. Here is a good refresher on the aim point: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/runway-markings-and-spacing-fly-better-patterns-to-landing-explained/ (scroll to Aim Point). Hope that helps!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey No, it certainly wasn't. I think it was the one time when I really was in trouble. Usually the icing I have seen comes in little bits, then goes away. Good videos.
You deserve many, many more subscribers man. I enjoy watching each new video. Keep up the good work. If you happen into Sedona, drop me a message. I’ll come up from Prescott and ride some trails with you. Cheers.
Contrary to popular believe airframe icing isn’t necessarily dire. I’ve heard plenty of stories where your Hershey bar wing has had over an inch of ice on the leading edge as it still flew fine. It’s a great airplane if it inadvertently encounters icing. That being said you obviously don’t want to be in it but it will fly just fine and you’re fortunate enough to be a part of the country that can almost always descend in the warmer air.
I would argue this is cavalier advice. Russian roulette isn’t necessarily dire either. The issue with icing is its unpredictability. It can get dire very quickly. Planning on taking an inch of ice being no big deal, with no anti ice equipment, is reckless. You need a way out and in this area of the country with MEA’s at 10-11,000ft means he could in fact *not* have descended into warmer air.
@@dryreed My advice was to stay out of icing but if you’re maintaining VFR at 10,000 feet in air that’s above freezing and feel you can do so while maintaining obstruction clearance and you need to climb to 11,000 feet for an IFR clearance with the risk of a little ice and the option to descend back to your previous safe altitude likely wouldn’t be the end of the world in a Cherokee. It was a generalization with the altitude and the area. Obvious critical thinking in the moment needs to be applied but that region of the country has many “out“ and safe areas to descend into to melt the ice. I have flown many winters in that area in a caravan which might as well not have any de-icing capability as those boots are junk and it was always comfortable knowing I could descend into PHX or another area to shed ice.
How long did this flight take you?? this is so my dream! I just wonder how the Sedona flights are…do they make you go up to 10,000ft normally? I’m curious what the flight would be like from sacramento to Sedona 😝
Great VID Eric! I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos! Great entertainment & educational at the same time. Being an IFR pilot myself, I truly enjoy your IFR flights. Thanks again. Don/NE Ohio :-)
Lol you don’t file IFR when you go on long cross country flights? ATC stopped doing pop up IFR clearances years ago. They’ll give you one to get you into an airport under their control but as far as doing a flight plan for you, nah. This is insane.
After this flight and before publishing this video, I asked around about the pop up clearance thing and heard back from a LOT of pilots and controllers. It was pretty spit down the middle with controllers saying they will do a pop up time permitting vs not, and there were a LOT of pilots who said they always get pop ups even en route and have never had to hop over to FSS to do it. It seems to be pretty common- most recently on my way back from Austin I heard another plane doing the same thing with Center and FSS because a marine layer had rolled in to the L.A. area. I often don't file an IFR plan on long trips when the flight can be made VFR- but I do file a VFR flight plan and activate it for search and rescue purposes especially over remote terrain. If you understand the VFR and IFR systems you can use each to your advantage depending on circumstances. In this case it would have been beneficial for me to have a IFR plan filed but since I had a VFR flight plan filed and activated FSS was easily able to use the details from it that were already on file. Really no big deal and nothing insane about it.
Another great video. Maybe time to start looking for a pressurized aircraft that can get you up over some of that weather and provide a better experience for the family. Can’t wait for the next video.
Eric love your suspense music and cinematography! I never had issue picking up Pop Up IFR Clearance ever since i pick up few tips from Rob Machado IFR refreshment. 1) To sound professional on the radio. 2) Position. 3) ATIS or the one min weather report for destination airpot. 4) then i like to pick up a Pop Up IFR Clearance. ATC will definitely issue you one right way rather than sending you to FSS to create your flight plan.
Good tips- I was already on flight following with ATC and too far out to get the weather for Seonda (still over an hour away when I initially called up). I talked to some controllers after this flight and about half said they would issue the clearance as a pop up and the other half said they would refer to FSS. Was an interesting discussion. :)
That’s what I did. And they made me contact FSS on the radio. Talked to a few controllers and it was 50/50 on those who said they would refer to FSS vs do the work for a pop up.
Ooooo... It's Preskitt - also a great place for some MTB. I live between the two places in Camp Verde. Great videos, I'm in Sedona daily and I actually look around for you guys when I hear a plane coming in 👍
I don't know why you were in such a hurry to cancel IFR to avoid a phone or radio call. You followed the IFR plan anyway so why cancel when it could provide some help for the unexpected? You were in some changeable stuff so it was warranted IMHO - that is unless you were skittish about the published miss Just my take.
Yeah I totally get where youre coming from. My thought process- I knew I wasn't going to fly the missed up to 12k because that would be almost guaranteed ice. The ceilings were so high and I could see I could easily make it VFR to Sedona, Prescott or Cottonwood. The rain was light and the not changing fast (not convective not fast developing) just kind of a light drizzle. I cancelled to avoid the phone call and release the airspace for any other IFR traffic out of consideration. There was no chance I was going to need terrain or traffic separation in those VMC conditions so between that and any missed approach having to be a VFR go around it made sense at the time. I suppose the more cautious thing to do would have been just to stay on though. Good food for thought.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey The key phrase is "There was no chance I was going to need terrain or traffic separation in those VMC conditions" If so, then fair enough. It didn't look quite like that to me on the tube thus my observation. Onward.
There are a lot of "awesome video dude" comments. I'm going to be the reality bad guy. I get really nervous for both you and your family in these videos because you just don't seem to have a great handle on some of the more technical cross-country basics. The weather you showed earlier should have been a no-go. - Cloud bases at 11/12,000' and freezing level at 10,000'. You're placing an awful lot of faith in those numbers being hard and fast. - Never thought to have an IFR plan on standby. Not filed, but just a general "what if" plan ready to go. It's like you never even consulted the charts ahead of time. You also tried to get a pop-up with Center. Probably because you're used to doing that with SoCal TRACON. Center doesn't file for you. - Taking 30-seconds to look at an IFR Low map would tell you that after Needles, the MEA's are 10,000. You're heading eastbound. You need to plan for at least 11,000 if you want to file. You got bailed out with the 10,000' against the direction of flight. - You are at 35 deg F, that's the temp you start to pick up clear ice. I feel like you're thinking because you're over 0C, it's all good. That's definitely not the case. Then you just straight up launch into clouds at temps close to or at freezing. Yikes. - You were STEPS behind this flight almost every step of the way. Poor weather planning before you even got to the flight. You asked for a clearance but didn't consult any charts ahead of time. As soon as you got the clearance you should have started to set up your approach into SEZ. It's like ATC had to prompt you to think about an approach. It makes me nervous how often you just load up your family and launch into weather that catches you off guard. CA wildfire smoke, lightning storms, icing. Fancy plane, lots of great avionics, but the preflight weather planning skills need some major help. I also hope that bike was secured somehow. Heavy unsecured cargo like that is super deadly should something happen.
I reacted similarly to Louis. Maybe it just didn’t appear on camera, but I would have expected a lot more contingency planning to have been considered in advance given such slim margins on the forecast.
I disagree with almost everything you wrote here. I have made plenty of no go decisions in flying but we would never go anywhere if we cancelled a flight that was easily done VFR because cloud bases were forecast 5000' above the highest terrain. The cloud bases forecast at 12,000 feet with a VFR flight possible at 7200' to easily clear terrain by 1000', 8500 feet would be over 2000' over terrain and still 3500' below forecast clouds. That is a huge margin. If we all cancelled flights in those conditions most people would never be flying at all. I easily could have made the flight VFR with both the forecast and actual conditions. Bases could have been 3000'-4000' lower than forecast and I still would have had some options. There were no mountain obscuration airmets at all for the area. All these facts are the reason why I accepted the IFR clearance- I had ground contact and could turn around and then descend and complete VFR or divert. So many outs with a HUGE margin. I did not have an IFR flight plan on file and I should have. I've always been able to get a pop up clearance flying around busy SoCal airspsace but never had to do it on a longer flight enroute. I learned on this flight and by talking to a few controllers that some controllers won't do it for you (technically not their job) and you should have one on file. In the forums I posted about this, I would say half the people say they usually just get pop ups from ATC so clearly I'm not alone on this...but in the future still I'll always have an IFR plan filed if there's a remote possibility of needing it. I mentioned I learned that in the video and did not edit that part out and pretend I already knew. I don't think this really endangered anyone though- I tried picking up a clearance about an hour before I really needed it as I was anticipating far far ahead of time. (the video is edited for time) I know that you can pick up ice even at +4C. I am always vigilant from 40 F on down. I was very familiar with the route and MEA's far ahead of time since I've flown that way many times (most recently IFR to Albuquerque). On that flight I also talked to the controller about minimum vectoring altitudes for the area and which altitudes they can assign even for eastbound traffic. So I had even MORE info than usual but didn't mention it in the video. I knew that they COULD give me 10k if I requested it. I have often been given altitudes that are typically assigned for opposite direction traffic in certain areas when flying IFR. If you need 10k but are going east you can still get it, especially in a remote area like that. I don't plan or count on it but know it IS an option. I was familiar with the approach, having flown it at night once and having studied it each time for the other 5 times I've flown to Sedona even though it was 100% clear. I always look at the approaches anyway. In the video, I have a look at the approach and get refreshed on it, partly for the video of course. When ATC asks if I want direct EXULTY I took a minute to look at the terrain on a VFR chart, even though I was familiar with where JEWSO and EXULTY were on the approach in terms of the chart. I think a lot of pilots would have just looked at the IFR chart and accepted it, but I went a step further to look at the terrain to preserve an even larger safety margin. Of course the bike was strapped in with both middle row seat belts. Super tight.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey I think what's funny is you just wrote paragraphs about how all of this was a non-event, plenty of outs, not a big deal...yet the video title is: "Close Encounter with airplane ICING when VFR flight turns IFR." I guess the title and video are just dramatized clickbait. Is that correct to assume? All those outs and pre-planning, but a "close encounter" with icing and a VFR flight turned IFR but apparently, the whole flight could have been VFR. I guess I'm just really confused then...
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey I don't know why the center controller couldn't give you a pop-up clearance. As a 25-year center controller it is literally just 9 keystrokes for this situation, takes about 2 seconds to enter and you are IFR. I can't remember the last time I had someone call FSS. Reasons why controllers won't do it may be volume but more likely there may be other IFR traffic or airspace around that prevents giving the clearance. Terrain is another reason why we couldn't do that unless you could maintain your own terrain and obstruction clearance until the MVA. Also, wrong altitude for direction of flight is usually not a factor down low and especially if you are going to be staying in that controller's sector. If a pilot needs to be wrong for direction because of icing most every controller I know will approve that and just move other aircraft out of the way if we have to. One other thing most controllers have no idea what MEA is all we care about is MVA minimum vectoring altitude and that is usually different from MEA. Also we love when you cancel in the air, don't have to tie up the airspace and we know that you see the airport and can safely get in.
You do build the suspense for the smallest amount of ice, but hey ‘there is no such thing as a little ice’! Love your video’s, keep them coming.
I haven't had much experience with so its really an expression of how it felt in the moment. Glad you enjoy the videos! Thanks!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey my experience is peoples fear of icing is a learned behavior from antiquated FAA videos. Those who have experience in it will mostly say it’s generally not that bad. Keep toying with it just a little and you’ll become more comfortable because there will be a time where yo get caught in a situation will you have no choice but the climb or to send through a layer and accrue heavy icing.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey I get it. I encountered unexpected snow. It accumulated on my tire (about 3 flakes deep) and I felt the same way.
Just passed my PPL checkride yesterday.
I wanted to thank you personally for being one of two guys who inspired this journey, along with @LewdixAviation
I can’t thank you guys enough. Please keep the great content coming!
Omar, thanks for this message. Hearing that our creative effort had a small part in inspiring your aviation journey is so rewarding. Congrats on your new certification and hope you continue to fly as often as possible!!!
how are you doing with your certificate one year later now?
@@billiondollardan i got my instrument rating back in December! Very happy with it and it made me a much better pilot!
@@OmarKnowCars Congratulations, man! That's really cool and you did it so quickly
@@billiondollardan thank you! Working on my commercial now. 👨🏼✈️
My only observation...when planning a long XC with weather as a consideration, especially at the destination, please don't forget to take into account the missed approach procedures and aircraft icing capability. Specifically, the missed at KSEZ shows a climb to 12,000 which probably would've put you into a higher instance of icing in a non-FIKI approved aircraft.
yes definitely a good tip! there was no way I was doing that missed. The forecast for Sedona was for VFR weather clouds about 4000' AGL. I was fairly certain I wouldnt even need to fly the approach at all since the ceilings were so high (forecast and reported) but just wanted the IFR clearance to stay high over terrain until the Cottonwood/Sedona valley. But definitely need to consider the missed for icing (and climb performance/gradient)
Great video. Just some thoughts. Prior to entering an area of icing conditions, I’ll turn pitot heat on, heater defroster on, and carb heat on. Just to be proactive. As far as flying the approach, I’ll leave flaps up and fly normal approach speed which I’m assuming is around 90-110 on your aircraft? This will put you farther from the critical angle of attack, thus putting you at a greater margin of safety above a stall condition. And land flaps up. Unfortunately, you will get ice at some point in your IFR flying career.
All great advice and I had my eye on that gas cap. Slurpee precip rolling across the wing is not icing per se. The cap would have iced up first. You did real well, respect using the O^2 at fl100. You telegraph a bit of uncertainty to your PX, I would work on it. I used to do that too until someone commented that it made them more nervous. Keep up the good work.
Good advice. I always turn pitot heat on when entering clouds. Good idea about the defroster.
great advise!
My favorite was the comment on the wet runway, flying with 31” ABW in Alaska is a treat when you land on snow and ice… #skates
haha yeah that sounds like fun!
Love hearing your thought process
Nice to watch a beautiful family enjoying flying!
Thanks so much!
While in Sedona we also went to Jerome. What a great place. And a great restaurant there. It may have been the Clinkscale but not for sure. It has been awhile.
I knew you would make it, because your family was making paper weights. The music was nice tension building touch. Thanks for the fun video.
thanks! glad you enjoyed it
Loved the video! I visited Jerome on a trip to visit my sister in PHX a few years ago, and it was such a cool experience. I loved learning about all the old smuggling tunnels running under the city.
yeah that place was really interesting!
I'm starting to work on my IFR ticket, so these videos are fantastic. All of your videos are great!
Thanks so much! You might enjoy the IFR approach videos as well. I have found just making them super useful to stay refreshed on IFR procedures. Hope you enjoy the IFR training. It's hard but super rewarding!
Great video. Love your edit style, sharing trip highlights and keeping the flying portions tight and interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it! I try not to waste the audience's time.. :)
Yes love the editing style. That’s the industry influence coming out in your videos to the other aviation RUclips guys who are really good too. But I think you have an edge on editing and camera work
Another wonderful video, exciting to watch!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Glad to see your family in the plane with you
We’ve come a long way when your wife is rubbing her hands together enthusiastically saying “maybe I’ll fly today”!
Right?!? Sooooo much better now!!!
indeed!!!
Awesome video. That Mountain High 02 system looks great.
we love it! (as you know) :)
I was just in Jerome the day of the Tool show in PHX. Flew my brother up to Cottonwood (my first passenger BTW) and spent some time up in Jerome checking it out. Great video, Eric. Great podcast on P2P too!
Congrats on taking your first passenger! I did a touch and go at Cottonwood on this trip as well ( a later day)
also, love your videos would love to get my pilot's license some day
Never too late, I didn’t get my PPL until 60 . . .
@@Parr4theCourse I could not agree more!
make it happen!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey oh don't worry I'm working on it
I was on a commercial flight to SLC on the Jan 30th and I saw Sedona out the window, thought about your video with the door coming open there. Good stuff man! fun channel.
Thanks!
Great video!! Yea my family does the same thing. I feel am wasting my vacation! I like the black wing tips idea. Hopefully one day I will remember that when I get my bird.
Fantastic video! Really enjoy your videos and appreciate the work that it takes to put these together. Becoming a Patron.
Thanks for the support!!! I will connect with you on Patreon.
Great One!
Thanks!
Another great video. With over 42 years of flying in the northwest (eastern Wash and Oregon) over the Cascades, I have experienced more "ice time" than I would ever wish on anyone. Seriously, I didn't see anything in the video that I would call icing. Chris Brown made some good suggestions - Pitot heat (don't wait until see ice), frequent carb heat, etc. However I am going to take this opportunity to mention where ice most often forms and can cause the most concern. That is on the prop! I don't know why more pilots are not warned of that, but with the rotation there is abundant cooling and constant moisture will cause a quite rapid formation of ice. Watch your RPM's as you will see them drop before you see the ice start to be thrown off. When and if this happens you must get down or alter course to get out of the conditions causing it. Climbing is usually not possible unless you notice it very early. By the way Sedona is also one of my wife's and I favorite vacation places. Happy Flying!
Great tips, appreciate the knowledge!
Definitely a good point about the prop. thanks
Bey-plane aka Beyoncé did great with the potential icing. Great video!
haha
Great landing!
Nice video. I fly a Cherokee 180 with steam gauges and no autopilot. I enjoyed you talking out loud about your decision making process. I want that panel! Even a simple autopilot removes so much workload from IFR flying. For example, when you were looking at the approaches into Sedona, you didn’t have to worry about spatial disorientation and keeping the shiny side up…. especially having so much precious cargo on board (and I don’t mean the mountain bike!). I will have to plan a trip to Sedona. It looks beautiful. I am based out of KLHM in northern CA.
The autopilot is a big help. I hand flew this plane on steam gauges on long trips and long IMC trips and the autopilot really makes it a lot easier. I was able to look out the window for a long period of time to look for ice and not have to focus on keeping straight and level and tracking the course
Another rad video!!
Appreciate it!
I am early in my private training, but icing scares me flying IFR. Probably because it is one of the things I understand the least.
Thanks for the educational and inspiring videos.
The more you understand it, the more it should scare you : )
If you see ice, climb and turn around. Vigilance in a non FIKI airplane is key. Don’t let it get ahead of you. If it’s freezing outside and there’s visible moisture, always expect ice. Always check the weather products as well. Check what altitude freezing levels are at and avoid them if there’s moisture present. If you think you have ice, don’t lower flaps as well.
The learning definitely never stops. Icing is not well covered in private pilot training and in the instrument training I think there are deficiencies in the training programs for it.
It’s just ONE guy being crappy in the comments section. Don’t let that get to you. And great well reasoned responses to that criticism as well. Looks like you are doing a fine job staying safe.
thanks for the support. :)
Geat video as always! Really enjoy your mix between aviation and your family adventures.
I’ve only had a single minor encounter with icing during IFR training. Noticed that it really shows on the windscreen early. Take care and always have an out
that's a good tip for sure! thanks
We been finding weather forecasts are out a lot in Australia at the moment. We have La Nina at the moment which makes it harder to predict.
Another awesome video, my Grandma was born in Jerome so cool to see that.
that's a cool little town
Cool, I'm wearing a shirt from Jerome now. We'd like to fly there some time but for my distance commercial is better. I know what you're saying about everyone else sleeping in while you're ready for the trails! LOL
Great video and as always very educational.
Glad you enjoyed it!!
Excellent video! You're one of the best editors in aviation content- never a boring moment in the video. Great adventure!
Thanks!
Check your MEA’s before you leave,specially if you anticipate needing to pick up an IFR clearance! Stay safe out there, love your content!
of course. I've flown that route several times VFR and IFR and am very familiar.
Great videos. Keep them coming! Right now my personal minimums include not going into IMC if it's freezing outside. But I can imagine on a longer trip getting into unanticipated clouds at high altitude and having to worry about ice. I fly out of Camarillo, and plan to check out Sedona in the next month or two. My next trip is Las Vegas, and I'm toying with the idea of taking a Warrior into KLAS. But that seems a bit intimidating so I'll likely go into the easier KHND airport.
I’ve flown a Cherokee 180 and my 6 in there. Just file IFR and they’ll slot you in. Be on your game and keep speed up on approach. You’ll have plenty of time to slow down once you have the runway made. It’s huge!!!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Thanks for the tip and the little nudge that I needed to give it a shot! I landed at KLAS with zero issues or delays. Amazing view. I’m thinking VFR for the departure though.
The IFR clearance didn't make much sense to me. It seemed like you had plenty of visibility and the clouds were high enough above the terrain to remain VFR safely?
Probably. But I wanted to be ifr and not scud run if possible.
Awesome job and cool shots of Sedona!
Thanks a lot! When is your next video coming out?
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey probably next week
@@AV8OR51 can’t wait for your video. Love watching you fly with your family. My wife appreciates it.
I do enjoy your flight time thanks for sharing this experience.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you!!
This may be subjective: But I think that having a clean exterior in this scenario probably helped a bit - could be wrong though.
She done called you out, son. HAAAAAA
haha yep!
Thank you as always for sharing the video and education.
I am curious why you canceled IFR? Given the degrading weather and ceilings, would it not have been wiser to not cancel in the event you had to go missed?
A missed would have been a regular VFR go around. No way was I going to climb to 12,000 feet into the almost certain ice up there. The ceilings were pretty high over the airport like 4000 to 5000 feet AGL and I could see that it was all non convective precip not developing quickly so I felt high confidence in VFR ceilings and visibility, even with a little rain- I could see the airport and had so much forward vis as you can see in the video. I cancelled as a courtesy to other pilots since I would be tying up the airspace staying under IFR control and it would save me from having to call on my phone (usually forgetting to do so) once on the ground at the uncontrolled airport. So cancelling before switching to CTAF seemed to make the most sense for convenience all around.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey Thank you for sharing your thought process. -R
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey lol the other pilots know to wait. Why would you rush an IFR cancellation? Lol Jesus. That’s hilarious. It’s an iffy weather day and you put yourself in a bad position to be courteous? Be careful about those early IFR cancellations and class E surface areas. Most pilots are completely fine with waiting until you’re on the ground safely to cancel IFR if you need it. “I could see the airport with good forward vis” what about cloud clearances?
how much more content is on the patreon channel if you dont mind me asking?
There is a multi part video series (I think maybe 8-10 videos) covering filming your own flights complete with GoPro settings, gear, audio technique, multicam post production and color grading...2 annuals on my airplane with multi part video series detailing the maintenance during each annual, maybe half a dozen full IFR flights/approaches with charts as graphics, and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't make it into the regular videos (like a full detail on the Oxygen setup, extended briefings from the Pinch Hitter series with my wife, and some other fun cutting room floor stuff). The other awesome part is our Discord chat sever where we have a great community chatting every day about all kinds of aviation related things. The whole thing has been super fun.
Should have stopped by Caduceus while in Jerome and picked up some wine.
Great content!!!
thank you! I appreciate that!
Rejecting the higher altitude was a smart thing to do. So many times, the rules and practices of ATC get us pilots in trouble. Very smart to avoid high terrain on the approach. Always remember, you are the pilot in command. My personal opinion is stay out of the clouds, or precipitation, if there's any possibility of icing. I think you did a great job overall.
Great job? Seriously? I strongly disagree. He got lucky rejecting the altitude. They let him cruise at a westbound IFR altitude which is hardly ever the case. What was Plan B if that controller said “need you at 11,000, what’s your intentions?”
He was behind this flight every step of the way. He entered clouds a few times knowing it was icing conditions. His entire family was on board.
I’d hardly call that “great job.”
@@LimaFoxtrot Sorry, but accepting 11,000 would most likely ASSURED icing. As long as ATC had him on radar at 10K, they could provide separation. If they REQUIRED him to go to 11K, which I doubt they would, he could always cancel and return to a lower VFR altitude. While he might have seemed "behind this flight", it was because the weather, as usual, was not as predicted. I think he made the right choices, in particular the route over lower terrain on approach, and staying lower. He was never in any real danger and flew the GPS although he cancelled IFR. A good practice in those marginal conditions. I personally would never mess with icing, but I don't think he was expecting it and did the best he could for the situation.
@@azcharlie2009 I’m not saying to accept 11,000. What I’m saying is you should know the MEA in the area and understand what you’re going to get before you get it. You know you can’t accept 11k, however, you also know that’s what ATC wants and will assign you. You’re rolling the dice hoping they’ll let you cruise at 10k.
@@LimaFoxtrot I agree. Preparation is the key. There are a lot of things we should know, but sometimes miss something, or we get thrown a curve ball. Especially with weather. I would not have flown that day. Or, I would have diverted to better weather. Get there-itis gets a lot of people killed. In this case, he was lucky the weather wasn't worse.
@@azcharlie2009 He could have flown VFR and cleared everything in that quadrant at 8200. I don't know why he was set on flying so high if there was any chance of ice up there. It seems like he only filed in case the weather was lower at the destination, which it wasn't. Much ado about nothing.
I am dying laughing that your wife just roasted you for being a “grumpy old man” if you don’t ride - but only because I get the same roast!
Haha yeah well I guess they just don’t get it! :)
Always enjoy your videos, great production and sound effects choices. Great flying as well, thanks for taking all the time to make these vids.
Glad you like them and thanks for the feedback!
I was staring at the contraption between the two front seats forever trying to figure out what it was used for on the plane. Then i realized it's just a bicycle without a tire.
yeah it looks weird and is confusing.
So cool! Thanks for sharing. I’ll be flying to Sedona from the east in few weeks so, as you have been there many times, do you mind to give some recommendations? How many days, best places to go, hotels, car rentals, etc. whatever you can give me is highly appreciated. Thaaaaankssss
call the airport to rent a car from there. they have a couple older cars. Otherwise Enterprise in West Sedona can pick you up at the airport. theyre a 5 minute drive. you cant go wrong pretty much anywhere you stay in Sedona. Lots of great hiking trails - again cant go wrong. I have another Sedona video on my channel (about a jacket being sucked out the door). In the descriotion there are timestamps with location names so you can see places you might want to go. Bell Rock is always a hit with my girls...
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey thanks a lot for your message and help. I’ll be waiting for the next vid… I think I already saw the jacket one :)
Thanks for the video and I was wondering how your wife's flying is going? She looked very relaxed reading as you worked through the flight:)
she hasn't flown too much since her pinch hitter course but i'm trying to get her to take the control more. I'd love for her to do another day or two of training to stay refreshed.
wondering why you landed so far down the runway? appears to be 1/2 way... I would have thought hitting the numbers - always.
I was following the Papi on the instrument approach which will take you right to the aiming point- the large white lines on the runway...typically 1000 ft down the runway. This looks to be where I touched down on this approach. It's best to be a little high at Sedona since you can get downdrafts due to the airport being on a mesa. But still, I was just about right on the glidepath (maybe a little high according to the Papi) but still touched down at the aim point. Here is a good refresher on the aim point: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/regulations/runway-markings-and-spacing-fly-better-patterns-to-landing-explained/ (scroll to Aim Point). Hope that helps!
How are you liking the auto pilot? After seeing some of your earlier videos I ended up pulling the trigger.
it works great and was really key on this flight!
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey That's great. We are both at KWHP, would love to meet up with you and get some more info on some of your avionics.
What is the flight time to Sedona from your home airport?
We live just down the road from Sedona and the wife Loves the Cali coast
about 2.7-3.0 hours
We make an icing detection device that connects to your iPad. Would love to discuss getting you a device to try
You'll know you hit icing when in 15 seconds your entire windshield becomes completely opaque and you are IMC without even being in the clouds.
That would not be fun
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey No, it certainly wasn't. I think it was the one time when I really was in trouble. Usually the icing I have seen comes in little bits, then goes away. Good videos.
You deserve many, many more subscribers man. I enjoy watching each new video. Keep up the good work. If you happen into Sedona, drop me a message. I’ll come up from Prescott and ride some trails with you. Cheers.
Thanks so much for the encouragement. I love the trails in Sedona- so fun.
Contrary to popular believe airframe icing isn’t necessarily dire. I’ve heard plenty of stories where your Hershey bar wing has had over an inch of ice on the leading edge as it still flew fine. It’s a great airplane if it inadvertently encounters icing. That being said you obviously don’t want to be in it but it will fly just fine and you’re fortunate enough to be a part of the country that can almost always descend in the warmer air.
I would argue this is cavalier advice. Russian roulette isn’t necessarily dire either. The issue with icing is its unpredictability. It can get dire very quickly. Planning on taking an inch of ice being no big deal, with no anti ice equipment, is reckless. You need a way out and in this area of the country with MEA’s at 10-11,000ft means he could in fact *not* have descended into warmer air.
@@dryreed My advice was to stay out of icing but if you’re maintaining VFR at 10,000 feet in air that’s above freezing and feel you can do so while maintaining obstruction clearance and you need to climb to 11,000 feet for an IFR clearance with the risk of a little ice and the option to descend back to your previous safe altitude likely wouldn’t be the end of the world in a Cherokee. It was a generalization with the altitude and the area. Obvious critical thinking in the moment needs to be applied but that region of the country has many “out“ and safe areas to descend into to melt the ice. I have flown many winters in that area in a caravan which might as well not have any de-icing capability as those boots are junk and it was always comfortable knowing I could descend into PHX or another area to shed ice.
@@Captndarty Must be an Empire C-208 driver ?
@@danielwilliams3360 yes in a previous life. Before they went to TKS
What's the little hat camera you have? that thing is cool.
Insta Go 2 - it's really cool for POV shots.
Great to see a real life pop up process, including comm with FSS. Recently got my IFR, so this was educational on top of entertaining. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! What is the camera you are wearing on your hat?
It's the Insta360 Go2- its a great little POV camera - www.insta360.com/sal/go_2?insrc=INRAI8U
How long did this flight take you?? this is so my dream! I just wonder how the Sedona flights are…do they make you go up to 10,000ft normally? I’m curious what the flight would be like from sacramento to Sedona 😝
its about 2.5 hours in this plane. 9500 is a good VFR cruising altitude. When theere is weather 11,000 is more likely
Great VID Eric! I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos! Great entertainment & educational at the same time. Being an IFR pilot myself, I truly enjoy your IFR flights. Thanks again. Don/NE Ohio :-)
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for the feedback I appreciate it
Great video Thanks, at 3:40 was that a code or it was just me?
no it wasnt intentional.
If you guys enjoyed the ghost investigation you should come with me and my group sometime. We fly into a few places and do investigations!
sounds like fun!
What is that thing on your cap?
It's a little camera for POV shots. Insta Go 2
Lol you don’t file IFR when you go on long cross country flights? ATC stopped doing pop up IFR clearances years ago. They’ll give you one to get you into an airport under their control but as far as doing a flight plan for you, nah. This is insane.
After this flight and before publishing this video, I asked around about the pop up clearance thing and heard back from a LOT of pilots and controllers. It was pretty spit down the middle with controllers saying they will do a pop up time permitting vs not, and there were a LOT of pilots who said they always get pop ups even en route and have never had to hop over to FSS to do it. It seems to be pretty common- most recently on my way back from Austin I heard another plane doing the same thing with Center and FSS because a marine layer had rolled in to the L.A. area. I often don't file an IFR plan on long trips when the flight can be made VFR- but I do file a VFR flight plan and activate it for search and rescue purposes especially over remote terrain. If you understand the VFR and IFR systems you can use each to your advantage depending on circumstances. In this case it would have been beneficial for me to have a IFR plan filed but since I had a VFR flight plan filed and activated FSS was easily able to use the details from it that were already on file. Really no big deal and nothing insane about it.
Keep the ice in your drinks
Another great video Eric. Love the O2! With 4 people hooked up, how long with it last?
A little over 20 hours according to their charts with a 48 cu ft tank
4:35 gotta give something for FSS to do. Poor guys always sound so bored when I call up.
Haha yeah i like to talk to them and submit pireps and watch them show up on the iPad.
Did you remember pitot heat?
Yes. :)
Have you ever been to Oatman, AZ??? Bring carrots for the wild donkeys.
I have - it was fun.
I see a FIKI system in your future.
That would be awesome.
That’s a heart drop pucker thinking icing might start. Awesome job keeping an eye on it and keeping your cool! Beautiful views 🤩🤩
I can really clean up those yokes for ya
leather wrapped?
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey a combo of that and hydrodipped would probably look really sharp. So many piper yokes peel like crazy.
This makes me think all leading wing leading edges should be dark
It’s not a bad idea. :)
👍☑️ Tks
Well, you cost me $1200! Mountain High appreciates you!
please tell them you saw our video. It helps RUclips content creators in the future. :) Thanks for watching!
and enjoy the O2 setup!!!
Pure Oxygen in the eyes is dangerous, I'm sure you realize... This might be a worry for kids in the back if they are not wearing their rig correctly.
Her eyes were watering because the inside of her nose was being tickled by the cannula and air.
Another great video. Maybe time to start looking for a pressurized aircraft that can get you up over some of that weather and provide a better experience for the family. Can’t wait for the next video.
That would be awesome. :)
Go get some real ice for that music lol
@socalflyingmonkey Nailed it!!
Thanks!!
Eric love your suspense music and cinematography! I never had issue picking up Pop Up IFR Clearance ever since i pick up few tips from Rob Machado IFR refreshment. 1) To sound professional on the radio. 2) Position. 3) ATIS or the one min weather report for destination airpot. 4) then i like to pick up a Pop Up IFR Clearance. ATC will definitely issue you one right way rather than sending you to FSS to create your flight plan.
Good tips- I was already on flight following with ATC and too far out to get the weather for Seonda (still over an hour away when I initially called up). I talked to some controllers after this flight and about half said they would issue the clearance as a pop up and the other half said they would refer to FSS. Was an interesting discussion. :)
If you're already airborne, don't bother filing an IFR flight plan with FSS. Just ask LA Center for a pop-up IFR to Sedona.
That’s what I did. And they made me contact FSS on the radio. Talked to a few controllers and it was 50/50 on those who said they would refer to FSS vs do the work for a pop up.
Tell ATC it's PRESS CUT not Press Cot... ask any natives :-)
oh I KNOW how to say it. Just like Oregon and Nevada..Always learn the local pronunciation... :)
Ooooo... It's Preskitt - also a great place for some MTB. I live between the two places in Camp Verde.
Great videos, I'm in Sedona daily and I actually look around for you guys when I hear a plane coming in 👍
I don't know why you were in such a hurry to cancel IFR to avoid a phone or radio call. You followed the IFR plan anyway so why cancel when it could provide some help for the unexpected? You were in some changeable stuff so it was warranted IMHO - that is unless you were skittish about the published miss Just my take.
Yeah I totally get where youre coming from. My thought process- I knew I wasn't going to fly the missed up to 12k because that would be almost guaranteed ice. The ceilings were so high and I could see I could easily make it VFR to Sedona, Prescott or Cottonwood. The rain was light and the not changing fast (not convective not fast developing) just kind of a light drizzle. I cancelled to avoid the phone call and release the airspace for any other IFR traffic out of consideration. There was no chance I was going to need terrain or traffic separation in those VMC conditions so between that and any missed approach having to be a VFR go around it made sense at the time. I suppose the more cautious thing to do would have been just to stay on though. Good food for thought.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey The key phrase is "There was no chance I was going to need terrain or traffic separation in those VMC conditions" If so, then fair enough. It didn't look quite like that to me on the tube thus my observation. Onward.
first
There are a lot of "awesome video dude" comments. I'm going to be the reality bad guy. I get really nervous for both you and your family in these videos because you just don't seem to have a great handle on some of the more technical cross-country basics.
The weather you showed earlier should have been a no-go.
- Cloud bases at 11/12,000' and freezing level at 10,000'. You're placing an awful lot of faith in those numbers being hard and fast.
- Never thought to have an IFR plan on standby. Not filed, but just a general "what if" plan ready to go. It's like you never even consulted the charts ahead of time. You also tried to get a pop-up with Center. Probably because you're used to doing that with SoCal TRACON. Center doesn't file for you.
- Taking 30-seconds to look at an IFR Low map would tell you that after Needles, the MEA's are 10,000. You're heading eastbound. You need to plan for at least 11,000 if you want to file. You got bailed out with the 10,000' against the direction of flight.
- You are at 35 deg F, that's the temp you start to pick up clear ice. I feel like you're thinking because you're over 0C, it's all good. That's definitely not the case. Then you just straight up launch into clouds at temps close to or at freezing. Yikes.
- You were STEPS behind this flight almost every step of the way. Poor weather planning before you even got to the flight. You asked for a clearance but didn't consult any charts ahead of time. As soon as you got the clearance you should have started to set up your approach into SEZ. It's like ATC had to prompt you to think about an approach.
It makes me nervous how often you just load up your family and launch into weather that catches you off guard. CA wildfire smoke, lightning storms, icing. Fancy plane, lots of great avionics, but the preflight weather planning skills need some major help.
I also hope that bike was secured somehow. Heavy unsecured cargo like that is super deadly should something happen.
I reacted similarly to Louis. Maybe it just didn’t appear on camera, but I would have expected a lot more contingency planning to have been considered in advance given such slim margins on the forecast.
@@dryreed ya, agreed. Every time ATC had a question it appeared he never even considered what they were asking. Very little preflight planning effort.
I disagree with almost everything you wrote here. I have made plenty of no go decisions in flying but we would never go anywhere if we cancelled a flight that was easily done VFR because cloud bases were forecast 5000' above the highest terrain. The cloud bases forecast at 12,000 feet with a VFR flight possible at 7200' to easily clear terrain by 1000', 8500 feet would be over 2000' over terrain and still 3500' below forecast clouds. That is a huge margin. If we all cancelled flights in those conditions most people would never be flying at all.
I easily could have made the flight VFR with both the forecast and actual conditions. Bases could have been 3000'-4000' lower than forecast and I still would have had some options. There were no mountain obscuration airmets at all for the area. All these facts are the reason why I accepted the IFR clearance- I had ground contact and could turn around and then descend and complete VFR or divert. So many outs with a HUGE margin.
I did not have an IFR flight plan on file and I should have. I've always been able to get a pop up clearance flying around busy SoCal airspsace but never had to do it on a longer flight enroute. I learned on this flight and by talking to a few controllers that some controllers won't do it for you (technically not their job) and you should have one on file. In the forums I posted about this, I would say half the people say they usually just get pop ups from ATC so clearly I'm not alone on this...but in the future still I'll always have an IFR plan filed if there's a remote possibility of needing it. I mentioned I learned that in the video and did not edit that part out and pretend I already knew. I don't think this really endangered anyone though- I tried picking up a clearance about an hour before I really needed it as I was anticipating far far ahead of time. (the video is edited for time)
I know that you can pick up ice even at +4C. I am always vigilant from 40 F on down.
I was very familiar with the route and MEA's far ahead of time since I've flown that way many times (most recently IFR to Albuquerque). On that flight I also talked to the controller about minimum vectoring altitudes for the area and which altitudes they can assign even for eastbound traffic. So I had even MORE info than usual but didn't mention it in the video. I knew that they COULD give me 10k if I requested it. I have often been given altitudes that are typically assigned for opposite direction traffic in certain areas when flying IFR. If you need 10k but are going east you can still get it, especially in a remote area like that. I don't plan or count on it but know it IS an option. I was familiar with the approach, having flown it at night once and having studied it each time for the other 5 times I've flown to Sedona even though it was 100% clear. I always look at the approaches anyway. In the video, I have a look at the approach and get refreshed on it, partly for the video of course. When ATC asks if I want direct EXULTY I took a minute to look at the terrain on a VFR chart, even though I was familiar with where JEWSO and EXULTY were on the approach in terms of the chart. I think a lot of pilots would have just looked at the IFR chart and accepted it, but I went a step further to look at the terrain to preserve an even larger safety margin.
Of course the bike was strapped in with both middle row seat belts. Super tight.
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey I think what's funny is you just wrote paragraphs about how all of this was a non-event, plenty of outs, not a big deal...yet the video title is: "Close Encounter with airplane ICING when VFR flight turns IFR." I guess the title and video are just dramatized clickbait. Is that correct to assume? All those outs and pre-planning, but a "close encounter" with icing and a VFR flight turned IFR but apparently, the whole flight could have been VFR. I guess I'm just really confused then...
@@SoCalFlyingMonkey I don't know why the center controller couldn't give you a pop-up clearance. As a 25-year center controller it is literally just 9 keystrokes for this situation, takes about 2 seconds to enter and you are IFR. I can't remember the last time I had someone call FSS. Reasons why controllers won't do it may be volume but more likely there may be other IFR traffic or airspace around that prevents giving the clearance. Terrain is another reason why we couldn't do that unless you could maintain your own terrain and obstruction clearance until the MVA. Also, wrong altitude for direction of flight is usually not a factor down low and especially if you are going to be staying in that controller's sector. If a pilot needs to be wrong for direction because of icing most every controller I know will approve that and just move other aircraft out of the way if we have to. One other thing most controllers have no idea what MEA is all we care about is MVA minimum vectoring altitude and that is usually different from MEA. Also we love when you cancel in the air, don't have to tie up the airspace and we know that you see the airport and can safely get in.
O2 at 9500 ft is a complete waste of time and money
Not for us and many others. Go watch my previous video about it.
So don’t use yeah use Roger or copy -affirmative instead please
I would like the videos even more without all this out of proportions drama.