No they knew it wasn't. Yesterday we found out a consultant BEFORE the cladding was fitted said that the cladding, if set on fire, would produce smoke which would kill in 2 to 3 minutes. They predicted a fire would kill60 to 70 people. 71 people died so their analysis was very close. AFTER they heard that consultation it was still decided to fit it
they shouldn't feel pressured though. telling their stories forces them to relive the trauma. those who have spoken up are to be admired for their courage, but it shouldn't be expected of them.
Rachel Day I don't believe that they do. I believe they want us to know.. but they were ordered to keep silent within hour's of day breaking. They hold the truth.. and the truth is what will set them free from their inner turmoil ♒☯
They can't talk until the public enquiry is over. The stay put policy works perfectly, well when the whole building isn't covered in flammable materials.
@Beverley Lumb but they couldnt get out anyway because there was only 1 staircase and it was filled with smoke, besides the stay put policy is not a fire brigade policy its the buildings policy
Unfortunately the stay put order was under the presumption and hope that the building materials and fire prevention devices were in place and up to regulations. As the anonymous firefighter said though, upon realizing that the building wasn't up to regulation standards, it was too late and radio communication wasn't up to standard for firefighters... It's easy to say oh well they should of done this in hind sight. It's one of the most difficult judgement calls in the moment with not just civilians but your own team's lives on the line.
What I find incredible is that this is not the only structure fire that has taken place in the UK that involves combustible cladding....there’s like 5 or 6 others. There are others that have killed people too. Why they would continue to allow this material to be used in large buildings is beyond me.
Easy answer, Metonymy1979. It's mind corruption. Where are the voice of british architects and civil engineers, who knows, what is going on? They hole up. For minimize costs, architects and civil engineers are forced to use ready-for-use systems. Beeing a civil engineer I expose the pressure of low cost is so severe, I can't draw breathe. I lost this game and are unemployed.
@@Gencturk92 oh thank god! I’m in Canada lol .... sad thing is , that Miami condo collapse that just recently happened, yeahhhh.... Canadian engineer. I am not impressed. I am disgusted.
The number one thing people need to understand is this was not the Fire Brigade's fault. Concrete buildings are NOT supposed to behave that way in a fire. Had an architect or someone that was responsible for the building's refurb been on scene and told those in charge that the cladding they had put on that building was basically oil soaked plastic, perhaps the Fire Brigade could have adapted their techniques. Whomever made the decision to put that kind of cladding on a building and not work in conjunction with the Fire Brigade to understand what would be needed to fight a fire if that stuff was to ever ignite, are the ones responsible for the loss of life that night.
bohemoth1 the LBC didn’t have long enough ladders, radios that can go through concrete to communicate to the outside or enough extended duration breathing apparatus to reach the top levels, due to budget cuts, what’s purple k?
Stay in and wait for help Daegu Subway Fire=70 people are told to sit inside a train that stopped right next to a burning train. The captain told them to wait inside and stay calm because he was following policy, he escaped alone with the train master key locking all passengers inside. A total of 192 ppl died. Sewol Ferry Tragedy= 250 students that were told to wait to be rescued inside their cabin because of policy and all died while the captain were the first to escaped. Instead of coast guards helping people to escape, it was fisherman boats who couldn't wait any longer and helped. US military boat was standing by by aren't allowed to help because of "policy". A total of 304 ppl died. Grenfell Tower Fire=It was reported that 70 ppl died but there was speculation that they stopped counting due to unable to identified victims. Victims were told to stay inside and wait for help. STAY INSIDE AND WAIT DOES NOT WORK!!!
Yes, the LFB equipment was in question, but I believe the materials used for cladding, lack of sprinklers, lack of fire alarms and only 1 stairwell were the primary reasons for the deaths. So many more people could have escaped with fire alarms alone. A less expensive combustible was used to save 60,000 pounds. Whomever made that decision to save money over safety should be locked up and the key thrown away.
There used to be smoke alarms on the landings. Some were damaged by tenants as they wanted to smoke in the communal corridors . but if they did. they set off the alarms.
sounds like your blaming the tenants. Yesterday we were told BEFORE the cladding was fitted they were told of there was a fire 60 to 70 people would die. It was found every death was preventable AND a lot of people were to blame but not the residents nor the individual fire fighters. Your comments are so disrespectful. 40% of the disabled residents died due to no evacuation plan in place for them, and despite a recommendation to change this the government decided not to bring it in. Dont blame a housebound person. For dying when it was rich people who murdered them.
There's a highrise on the Exeter horizon which looks just like Grenfell. Every time I see it I'm reminded of the tragedy. Down the road from my house there's a building with the same cladding. It's a staple of the Exeter center. Work has barely gone on to remove it. I cannot imagine if that happened here. Remember Grenfell.
Talking to a fire fighter I know in Glasgow he said he remembers watching it on duty and his entire watch could not understand what they were seeing as it went against all of there understanding of fire science and he remembers someone saying there's something wrong with that building someone needs jailed
i pass the tower every day and everyday it gives me chills, it makes me so emotional. my heart goes out to ALL the victims that have been accounted for and NOT accounted for. The government wont learn from this, if anything they are trying their damn hardest to cover this up. Makes me angry, sick to my bones that they alowed poor cladding to even be installed. why a year before did they change them? Just why!
Not every "planned" incident is done on purpose. Very often it's just stupidity and outright incompetence of so called experts who cowardly refuse to live up to their respective responsibility.
It's been 3 years since I've seen these videos of the Grenfell fire: and it still makes me emotional. It is council policy to stay put in the event of a fire in a flat. This is what we're told. But nobody expected the cladding outside the building to be so flammable, not even the fire officers. And if there was no communication is it any wonder people may have been confused as to what to do for the best, especially as they couldn't see what was happening on the outside of the building? Even if they did decide to ignore the 'stay put' instruction I would imagine it would have been very difficult for residents who, on leaving their flats are confronted by a thick wall of black smoke, given the rapid spread of the fire. It might still have been too late: the higher up they were the more likely they would have succumbed to the smoke. I gathered there were dead bodies in the stairwell. I think the fire fighters are being too hard on themselves. All the same, those poor poor residents.😢
@@johnbird7357 your wrong it’s probably much more they say 72 but they also said they couldn’t identify a lot of people so we will never know the true number
Gencturk92 - (1) 400+ didn't die. it was 71 - is that not bad enough? (2) The senior fire officer at the scene would have decided on the stay put policy which in normal circumstances would have been correct - once the fire spread externally and started to work its way in that should have been changed - again an issue for the senior officer to do not the ordinary joe Firemen. (3) The situation regarding ladders is also a senior officer issue - ordinary fireman don't get to pick what equipment is purchased.
@@Gencturk92 blame the tory council, contractors and blame the tory government. Cuts to the fire brigade is another factor in why they couldn't tackle the fire easier.
@@hzli5049 It was opened to residents under a Labour government, with no sprinkler system and only one staircase where tenants were allowed to stack rubbish on the landings, and that stopped some doors opening that provided access to the only staircase.
Such an avoidable tragedy. The government has a lot to answer for and needs to stop creating smoke screens to make the guilty seem guiltless. The fire fighters clearly did their best and more and risked their lives to save others.
@@johnbird7357 Because they were aware that the cladding was banned in other countries, but it was being used up and down the UK to “tart up” unattractive tower blocks, not for the benefit of the residents, but for those who didn’t wanna look at the brutalist architecture.
How do we know this is a firefighter and not a sky/establishment way of blaming the fire service? They will do anything to release the government and local authority from blame.
Such an interview is just based on someone's opinion or rhetoric, the formal and impartial investigation and public inquiry will and did get to the truth.
In hindsight, the stay put policy WOULD of saved lives IF the building was up the fire safety regulation standards. Building materials which were flammable when combined, 1 evacuation stairs, questionable fire safety doors and windows... It was a death trap. *IF the building was up the regulation then the fire both internally and externally would of taken hours, by which time the fire crews could of extinguished it before it could spread.* Don't give the contractors and council the excuse. The fire crews gave orders which is policy for a building of that scale and should of kept people not only alive but safe!
I get the fact that they were afraid of panics on the stairways and all. But it’s a human instinct to ESCAPE a fire instead of stay put. The stay put policy is plain stupid.
The stay put policy is there because the building is so tall, it would be more dangerous to evacuate people. If the building was up to fire regulation standards then the building itself should limit the spread of the fire, allowing time for fire services to arrive and extinguish the fires. Grenfell had a malfunctioning fire alarm system, 1 evacuation route, and the outer wall panel "cladding" was flamable! If the building didn't have flammable panels on the outside of the building, fire services would of had that fire out in half an hour. If the fire alarm system worked then people could of been evacuated with a few injuries and less deaths. and if there was more than 1 set of stairs then more people could of gotten out and more firefighters could of attempted to get to higher floors. The building was a death trap in the eyes of the law, regulators, designers, the residents and publics. It wasn't safe. They stay put policy can been fine if the building was safe and up to fire standards.
If it wasn’t for the cladding outside the building that was flammable then they’d have saved a lot more people maybe even all of them as it would never have spread that fast, I personally couldn’t have stayed inside like a lot of them did as it’s terrifying and I hope it never happens again.
@@slyfoxyandalifesaver It was opened under a Labour government with no sprinklers and only one staircase. The smoke alarms were turned off or damaged by tenants who smoked cigarettes or other tobacco products on the internal landings. When the fire brigade arrived they could not get near the building because of parked cars in the clearly marked EMERGENCY VEHICLE spaces, the lock to the dry riser cabinet had been damaged by vandals and could not be opened. The dry riser is the steel pipework that fire engines normally connect to on the round floor and then go up inside the building and can connect their hoses at any floor they choose. Tenants had been ALLOWED to store rubbish on the landings that did not fit into the rubbish chute. So the tenants or the caretaker is to blame for not keeping the landings empty. The rubbish blocked access to the only staircase on the higher levels. The tenant where there was a 'small fire' ran off with his neighbour after he opened the window when he should have tried to put it out. the fames got out of the window and the inferno was the result. All those errors cost 72 people their lives. And even in this tragic case there have been 16 people (so far) who have been convicted of fraud form the Grenfell Fund, and are in prison. Between them they got over £900,000 and spent the lot. The 'proceeds from crime' unit have recovered nothing whatsoever, not one penny.
I actually live in a tower block the same as Grenfell n when I first moved in the fire procedure was to stay put however the fire alarm has gone off a few times since being here n I can honestly say I didn't stay put I went straight outside.(I was also the only person to actually go outside)I will say though after Grenfell all the procedures were changed to make your way outside if possible and they have also put sprinkler systems in every single flat.I have to say though I am still trying to get out of here.R.I.P.TO ALL GRENFELL VICTIMS.
No extended ladders-hoses not long enough- no fire escapes - 1 set of stairs- bare wiring-not enough resources and cutbacks-substandard materials-the cladding is made of petroleum products which are highly flammable-lack of training-poor communication-ignoring Grenfell United which were the tenants who were very concerned about their concerns ignored! Destroyed a wonderful community of cultural richness!
In a prosperous nation such as ours, the fact that the brave men and women of our fire service did not have adequate equipment is absolutely outrageous. The stay put policy is also a decision made by someone and that person needs to answer for their stupidity.
How nice of the council to be so concerned about people's safety all of a sudden. Wonder what the council is really up to. Would be interesting to know the exact proximity of this location, which they haven't disclosed of course.
Budget cuts had happened not long before the fire. Similar building fires had happened just prior to the fire and it was flagged as something wrong in these building without the cladding the government didn’t respond. Sit and shut the door procedure wasn’t built for this disaster they didn’t know. It all comes back to the same money and passing the buck. RIP to all who lost their lives and sympathies to the family and friends. Respect to the fire firefighters who went in that building. The cladding was already banned across Europe before this fire. Using it was criminal very sad indeed terrifying that even now it is still on towers across Uk .
Cladding is flammable but waterproof. WTF!!!! That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, why would they have something flammable wrapped around a building holding people.
Why don't fire departments have taller equipment or is it impossible to even think that way? Why someone to tell the Grenfell Tower residents to stay in their apartments seems ridiculous. This also happened when the World Trade Center Towers were hit in 2002....many other lives could have been saved on 09/11/01 had people refused to stay in their offices and left the buildings instead of waiting for someone to tell those who were waiting to be rescued. I was shocked when survivors of the World Trade Center disaster said they were advised to "wait" to be rescued !!! Sorry, but I would have left immediately.
Problem with extended reach appliances is vehicle size now in a perfect world streets would be clear and appliances could get near. But street parking makes getting suitable appliances close enough to be put into operation
even today nobody has been held responsible . 5 years later . there is supposed to be a report coming out next year . again no responsibility will happen .
My uncle ❣️ is a retired fire fighter . Madd respect for them. People wanted to blame them, but this was no way the fault of the fire fighters . They are working with what they are given.
Due to Covid-19 the Full Inquiry hearing is currently suspended but here's the short version: Grenfell tower had no water sprinkler or fire suppression system, there was only 1 stair well which limited evacuation and rescue efforts, the fire alarm system was not fully functioning and the building's exterior was given a coating of waterproof panels, behind which was a mixture of flammable adhesives but would of been fire retardant on their own! London Fire Bridage's "Stay put" policy would of be affective IF the building was up to fire regulations. Long version: The initial findings where that the external panels known as "Cladding" had mixture of 2 commonly used adhesive chemicals sandwiched within and behind the panel. While normally these chemicals would self extinguish when exposed to a flame, lab tests results have revealed that when both are mixed together, they become flammable and melt! This mean the fire was spreading behind a waterproof exterior panel, up along the walls, and the flames burst through windows. The Cladding external panel prevented firefighter's water jet streams from extinguishing the fire's fuel source. This fire was not reachable in height nor direction! As flames climbed up the outside of the building, it rained fire from above on to fire fighters and police. As the flammable materials burned away, burning bits of panels started to rain down on fire fighters below and police had to help evacuate people using riot shields as cover from falling burning debris! ...The London Fire Bridage tried to fight fires and evacuate from the inside of the building but with such a tall building, their oxygen tanks supplies ran out as they just start rescues and fighting the fires. The LFB give a standard order of residents to stay put, this would of been appropriate and would of saved lived. However the fact the building's materials externally was flammable and the normal fire precautions were not up to standard undermined such a policy. By time the realized the mistake and the building's abnormalities, the fire was long out of control and it was too late to evacuate people safely.
@@slyfoxyandalifesaver Long winded rubbish. The cause of the fire was the tenant whose flat had no fire extinguisher in it. He was not going to put the fire out so he should never have opened the window before he ran for it.
I still believe the firefighters management were most responsible for this tragedy. The stay put policy was put on by them when obviously wrong and kept on for hours when it had escaped the first room early on and was clearly not contained as the policy requires. I think they were also responsible for certifying the cladding as OK for the building fire safety. But i have no blame for fire fighters going into the building. I would like to know how many people they told to stay put and were then brought out.
Some people closed their windows to try and prevent heat and smoke entering, And to those who did open their windows, the fire may roar like a jet engine. The long and short of it is that when London Fire Brigade realized what had happened, it was too late to evacuate or to try and contain the fire.
SAD Wondering what role the lack of radio communication was play on the other end - the command end? Did it take away from the recognition of the overall fire situation? More concern for their own personal than that of the residents, perhaps! Hope the individual firefighter doesn't have to deal with that, and leaves it to the chain of command.
Multiple plane crashes the building isn't... normally on most risk assessments for buildings. That's not really a standard to go by. Grenfell was such a shocking incident because it wasn't up to fire safety regulations, had it be up to fire safety regulations then the fire would not of spread and everyone would of been safe staying where they were. The fire server never got control of the situation in the first place because the fire was just that fast!
Thanks to this firefighter for telling us what we partly knew already that they should have let ppl out rather than telling them to stay in knowing the fire was spreading up. Where is common sense
The people weren’t ARGUING that there had been issues with it THEY WERE telling them the land lord KNEW WHAT WAS WRONG AND DIDNT CARE THIS DESERVES TO BE A night mare tennant and slum landlord episode, OBVIOUSLY just about THE INFINITELY SLUM AS LANDLORD
Cost cutting cost lives.that tower block was put up cheaply.a tragic loss of life.and people are still suffering .buildings should not be built beyond firefighters reach.how long will it be before something like this happens again.
I am so sorry for those who had passed out on the tragic event and i do acknowledge the fact that (the only human) the LFB did try there best to save those in the building but i have to say that was a death trap R.I.P.
Does anyone think that the deaths were counted correctly ? I still can’t believe that they clad the building in a flammable facade ? I’ve never heard of a stand in place order during a fire ?
Can't people in danger think for themselves and GET OUT!? Some 999/911 operator 50 miles from the fire is not going to know how bad the fire is. Think for yourself and do what is needed.
sylvia koziarski. There were no fire alarms in the building. People who were able to get out called neighbors to alert them of the fire. Many were trapped by the time they knew a fire existed.
sylvia koziarski my thoughts exactly! Many where scared by the smoke in the corridors.. but my instinct would be to put wet towels over my face!!! And get out!!!
@@feurigerStern There WERE smoke alarms, they were on the communal landings. They were damaged by tenants who wanted to smoke outside their flats in those areas.
So many man made flaws were revealed in this fire, is any lesson ever learn through this tragic by the city political elite or they already forgotten it?
Why are they hiding his face? As if anyone that knows him, wouldn't recognize his voice? Besides, it's not like he did anything wrong, so what does he have to hide from?
@@johnbird7357 Yes, I know, but firefighters don't go to such hot places. As far as I know they don't operate at temperatures exceeding 300 C, but I used the most conservative estimate possible. Should have made it 100 C, I guess.
Why cut corners with building regulations and materials being banned. Grenfell tower wouldn't have been that bad if materials were tested by safety regulations and all the residents may have survived.
People can draw great insightful inferences from the study of the causes of The Station Nightclub fire of Warwick, RI., USA. A great book was written by a lawyer of the subject of this fire and its csuses including the plastics that were tremendously flammmable. Ill get his name and come back. It is well written and a compelling account. In follow up there is an amazing video created by a family member called 41. I have to go get more info as tbese recommendations are incomplete. BRB
Happy Quails. Very interesting. I will check that out. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York City in 1911 was one of the deadliest in US history. The exit doors were locked with chains to prevent employees from leaving work early. The Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in Kentucky (1977) killed 165. Numerous fire and safety codes were violated. There were inadequate fire alarms. The fire started about 8:30 pm but the fire department wasn't called until 9:01 pm and the audience wasn't alerted to the fire until 9:06 pm when a busboy went out on stage to tell people to evacuate. The deadliest was the Cocoanut Grove in Boston in 1942 that killed 492 . The owner of this club locked exits, concealed others with draperies, and even bricked up one emergency exit to prevent customers from leaving without paying!
HappyQuails The book about the Station Nightclub fire is called "Killer Show". The cause was the manager of the band "Great White" illegally set off pyrotechnics during the opening song, which set highly combustible sound insulation on fire, ultimately causing the death of 100 people. There was a bouncer who wouldn't let people use the exit by the stage, claiming it was for the bands use only. Meanwhile, the front door crowded so bad that people were literally wedged into place and couldn't move.
Would it have been a practical suggestion for residents to burst their mains water pipe to flood their flat and have that water seep downwards? Nothing to lose in this situation.
Ummmm... I don't think it would be as affective as a installed fire suppression system like water sprinkers. Also fire services can divert water supplies so they can use it for their efforts. Honestly though, It probably have done little but prolonged the outcome.
They could’ve gotten helicopters out to rescue the people from the top floors. People from the top floors could’ve jumped people could’ve put mattresses down so they could get out. More could’ve been done to save those who didn’t get out🥺
It doesn't work like that. The smoke and heat would make flying a helicopter so close to it very dangerous and at risk of crashing down. A mattress does nothing to prevent people from falling to their deaths from the 8th+ floors.
The fact their identities need to be hidden for fear of employment reprisals is deeply disturbing
“The cladding on the outside of the building was not only flammable, it was waterproof”.
What in the actual _ am I hearing ☹️😞
Probably cheaper. It all seems to be about money. The middle class will always disappear under the tories
Tears welled up in my eyes when I heard that. They were fighting a losing battle. Hope they all got PTSD treatment.
Who thought it was a safe idea ffs
holly... what in the world... who approved that? how can they even PRODUCE it???? how dare they???
No they knew it wasn't. Yesterday we found out a consultant BEFORE the cladding was fitted said that the cladding, if set on fire, would produce smoke which would kill in 2 to 3 minutes.
They predicted a fire would kill60 to 70 people. 71 people died so their analysis was very close.
AFTER they heard that consultation it was still decided to fit it
I really wish more fire fighters would come forward and tell their stories...
they shouldn't feel pressured though. telling their stories forces them to relive the trauma. those who have spoken up are to be admired for their courage, but it shouldn't be expected of them.
Rachel Day
I don't believe that they do. I believe they want us to know.. but they were ordered to keep silent within hour's of day breaking.
They hold the truth.. and the truth is what will set them free from their inner turmoil ♒☯
oh yeah true
They can't talk until the public enquiry is over. The stay put policy works perfectly, well when the whole building isn't covered in flammable materials.
but this building was covered in flammable material and the fire wasn't contained
firefighters are true heros so much respect for every firefighter
I am a former medic and i am glad to see this fire fighter had the courage to tell the truth! The bureaucracy never wants to hear about failure!
He showed no courage at all by hiding his face and having an actor speak his words.
As soon as that fire started spreading the stay put order should of been abandoned
@Beverley Lumb exaclty... always listen to your insticts
Remember the south korean ferry disaster. People were told to stay put and they died.
@Beverley Lumb but they couldnt get out anyway because there was only 1 staircase and it was filled with smoke, besides the stay put policy is not a fire brigade policy its the buildings policy
@Beverley Lumb i mean the police who told them to stay in there are supposed to be PROFESSIONAL and people trusted them.
Unfortunately the stay put order was under the presumption and hope that the building materials and fire prevention devices were in place and up to regulations.
As the anonymous firefighter said though, upon realizing that the building wasn't up to regulation standards, it was too late and radio communication wasn't up to standard for firefighters...
It's easy to say oh well they should of done this in hind sight. It's one of the most difficult judgement calls in the moment with not just civilians but your own team's lives on the line.
Water proof and not fire proof? How the hell did that not get attention by the builders and government while going through safety?
What I find incredible is that this is not the only structure fire that has taken place in the UK that involves combustible cladding....there’s like 5 or 6 others. There are others that have killed people too. Why they would continue to allow this material to be used in large buildings is beyond me.
its good that its banned in America, Canada and Germany. I wish UK could be the same
Easy answer, Metonymy1979. It's mind corruption. Where are the voice of british architects and civil engineers, who knows, what is going on? They hole up.
For minimize costs, architects and civil engineers are forced to use ready-for-use systems.
Beeing a civil engineer I expose the pressure of low cost is so severe, I can't draw breathe. I lost this game and are unemployed.
@@Gencturk92 neoliberalism
@@Gencturk92 oh thank god! I’m in Canada lol .... sad thing is , that Miami condo collapse that just recently happened, yeahhhh.... Canadian engineer. I am not impressed. I am disgusted.
The number one thing people need to understand is this was not the Fire Brigade's fault. Concrete buildings are NOT supposed to behave that way in a fire. Had an architect or someone that was responsible for the building's refurb been on scene and told those in charge that the cladding they had put on that building was basically oil soaked plastic, perhaps the Fire Brigade could have adapted their techniques. Whomever made the decision to put that kind of cladding on a building and not work in conjunction with the Fire Brigade to understand what would be needed to fight a fire if that stuff was to ever ignite, are the ones responsible for the loss of life that night.
True words
They could have used PURPLE K to extinguish the flames. Of course that's providing that they had PURPLE K equipment.
bohemoth1 the LBC didn’t have long enough ladders, radios that can go through concrete to communicate to the outside or enough extended duration breathing apparatus to reach the top levels, due to budget cuts, what’s purple k?
@@farahdarr6330 purple k is a dry chemical fire extinguisher. And I doubt it would have done any good on a vertical surface.
architect made an average building. but then they renovated the buiwith the new cover outside...
It's a miracle none of the firefighters were killed that night.
God bless the 72 angels
Stay in and wait for help
Daegu Subway Fire=70 people are told to sit inside a train that stopped right next to a burning train. The captain told them to wait inside and stay calm because he was following policy, he escaped alone with the train master key locking all passengers inside. A total of 192 ppl died.
Sewol Ferry Tragedy= 250 students that were told to wait to be rescued inside their cabin because of policy and all died while the captain were the first to escaped. Instead of coast guards helping people to escape, it was fisherman boats who couldn't wait any longer and helped. US military boat was standing by by aren't allowed to help because of "policy". A total of 304 ppl died.
Grenfell Tower Fire=It was reported that 70 ppl died but there was speculation that they stopped counting due to unable to identified victims. Victims were told to stay inside and wait for help.
STAY INSIDE AND WAIT DOES NOT WORK!!!
DAMN RIGHT! First sign of fire,,,, GET OUT!
History repeats itself if humans are dumb enough to not learn from their mistakes.... or simply don’t care to :(
@@dianemercer9916 First sign of fire - If it was my flat I'd have tried to put it out.
I have a tremendous respect for firefighters - their efforts often go unnoticed, but they are true heroes in society!
Yes, the LFB equipment was in question, but I believe the materials used for cladding, lack of sprinklers, lack of fire alarms and only 1 stairwell were the primary reasons for the deaths. So many more people could have escaped with fire alarms alone. A less expensive combustible was used to save 60,000 pounds. Whomever made that decision to save money over safety should be locked up and the key thrown away.
The new cladding was made of a metal with a higher melting point than the old cladding.
There used to be smoke alarms on the landings. Some were damaged by tenants as they wanted to smoke in the communal corridors . but if they did. they set off the alarms.
The lack of a second staircase and a sprinkler system did not stop the Labour government opening it to residents when the building was completed.
sounds like your blaming the tenants.
Yesterday we were told BEFORE the cladding was fitted they were told of there was a fire 60 to 70 people would die.
It was found every death was preventable AND a lot of people were to blame but not the residents nor the individual fire fighters.
Your comments are so disrespectful. 40% of the disabled residents died due to no evacuation plan in place for them, and despite a recommendation to change this the government decided not to bring it in. Dont blame a housebound person. For dying when it was rich people who murdered them.
There's a highrise on the Exeter horizon which looks just like Grenfell. Every time I see it I'm reminded of the tragedy. Down the road from my house there's a building with the same cladding. It's a staple of the Exeter center. Work has barely gone on to remove it. I cannot imagine if that happened here.
Remember Grenfell.
Talking to a fire fighter I know in Glasgow he said he remembers watching it on duty and his entire watch could not understand what they were seeing as it went against all of there understanding of fire science and he remembers someone saying there's something wrong with that building someone needs jailed
Those firemen have not been properly trained and updated on the newer fire science if they didn’t know why it would happen.
Now as it is officially 4 years since the incident I appreciate this guy’s honesty back then may they all rest in peace 🙏💔
i pass the tower every day and everyday it gives me chills, it makes me so emotional. my heart goes out to ALL the victims that have been accounted for and NOT accounted for. The government wont learn from this, if anything they are trying their damn hardest to cover this up. Makes me angry, sick to my bones that they alowed poor cladding to even be installed. why a year before did they change them? Just why!
+Gencturk92 what of fire doors? our building has apt doors so they close automatic
Not every "planned" incident is done on purpose. Very often it's just stupidity and outright incompetence of so called experts who cowardly refuse to live up to their respective responsibility.
$$$
It's been 3 years since I've seen these videos of the Grenfell fire: and it still makes me emotional. It is council policy to stay put in the event of a fire in a flat. This is what we're told. But nobody expected the cladding outside the building to be so flammable, not even the fire officers. And if there was no communication is it any wonder people may have been confused as to what to do for the best, especially as they couldn't see what was happening on the outside of the building? Even if they did decide to ignore the 'stay put' instruction I would imagine it would have been very difficult for residents who, on leaving their flats are confronted by a thick wall of black smoke, given the rapid spread of the fire. It might still have been too late: the higher up they were the more likely they would have succumbed to the smoke. I gathered there were dead bodies in the stairwell. I think the fire fighters are being too hard on themselves. All the same, those poor poor residents.😢
There were no bodies in the stairwell for the first 16 floors.
It so sad nobody will ever know how many people really died I so glad I Not living in the UK
72
@@johnbird7357 your wrong it’s probably much more they say 72 but they also said they couldn’t identify a lot of people so we will never know the true number
They are modern day hero's. God bless our brave Firemen.
Gencturk92 - (1) 400+ didn't die. it was 71 - is that not bad enough? (2) The senior fire officer at the scene would have decided on the stay put policy which in normal circumstances would have been correct - once the fire spread externally and started to work its way in that should have been changed - again an issue for the senior officer to do not the ordinary joe Firemen. (3) The situation regarding ladders is also a senior officer issue - ordinary fireman don't get to pick what equipment is purchased.
They should be rich they save lives
@@Gencturk92 blame the tory council, contractors and blame the tory government. Cuts to the fire brigade is another factor in why they couldn't tackle the fire easier.
@@hzli5049 It was opened to residents under a Labour government, with no sprinkler system and only one staircase where tenants were allowed to stack rubbish on the landings, and that stopped some doors opening that provided access to the only staircase.
@@hzli5049 they should put ice cubes in the hoses, atleast more people will survive. But R.I.P the people who died 😭
This is absolutely horrific story These men are so brave
And women
Incredible narrative. And very interesting. I’m sorry for so many loses. Greetings from Mexico
The stay put policy should have been abandoned as soon as it spread to the outside. That's my opinion.
i don't know any cases where this policy saved anyone, tbh
Such an avoidable tragedy. The government has a lot to answer for and needs to stop creating smoke screens to make the guilty seem guiltless. The fire fighters clearly did their best and more and risked their lives to save others.
Why have the govt got a lot to answer for? They don't run the local council.
@@johnbird7357 Because they were aware that the cladding was banned in other countries, but it was being used up and down the UK to “tart up” unattractive tower blocks, not for the benefit of the residents, but for those who didn’t wanna look at the brutalist architecture.
How do we know this is a firefighter and not a sky/establishment way of blaming the fire service? They will do anything to release the government and local authority from blame.
Rob Ringsell An interesting and valid point.
Such an interview is just based on someone's opinion or rhetoric, the formal and impartial investigation and public inquiry will and did get to the truth.
With hindsight the stay put policy in a flame engulfed tower seems insane .
In hindsight, the stay put policy WOULD of saved lives IF the building was up the fire safety regulation standards.
Building materials which were flammable when combined, 1 evacuation stairs, questionable fire safety doors and windows... It was a death trap.
*IF the building was up the regulation then the fire both internally and externally would of taken hours, by which time the fire crews could of extinguished it before it could spread.*
Don't give the contractors and council the excuse. The fire crews gave orders which is policy for a building of that scale and should of kept people not only alive but safe!
@@slyfoxyandalifesaver If I was in a building that was on fire I wouldn't wait to be rescued no matter what the rules were.
Someone may as well have poured petrol down the sides of the building.
To pour it down he has to be at the top. Not a very clever move imo
I get the fact that they were afraid of panics on the stairways and all. But it’s a human instinct to ESCAPE a fire instead of stay put. The stay put policy is plain stupid.
The stay put policy is there because the building is so tall, it would be more dangerous to evacuate people.
If the building was up to fire regulation standards then the building itself should limit the spread of the fire, allowing time for fire services to arrive and extinguish the fires.
Grenfell had a malfunctioning fire alarm system, 1 evacuation route, and the outer wall panel "cladding" was flamable!
If the building didn't have flammable panels on the outside of the building, fire services would of had that fire out in half an hour.
If the fire alarm system worked then people could of been evacuated with a few injuries and less deaths.
and if there was more than 1 set of stairs then more people could of gotten out and more firefighters could of attempted to get to higher floors.
The building was a death trap in the eyes of the law, regulators, designers, the residents and publics.
It wasn't safe.
They stay put policy can been fine if the building was safe and up to fire standards.
If it wasn’t for the cladding outside the building that was flammable then they’d have saved a lot more people maybe even all of them as it would never have spread that fast, I personally couldn’t have stayed inside like a lot of them did as it’s terrifying and I hope it never happens again.
@@slyfoxyandalifesaver It was opened under a Labour government with no sprinklers and only one staircase. The smoke alarms were turned off or damaged by tenants who smoked cigarettes or other tobacco products on the internal landings. When the fire brigade arrived they could not get near the building because of parked cars in the clearly marked EMERGENCY VEHICLE spaces, the lock to the dry riser cabinet had been damaged by vandals and could not be opened. The dry riser is the steel pipework that fire engines normally connect to on the round floor and then go up inside the building and can connect their hoses at any floor they choose. Tenants had been ALLOWED to store rubbish on the landings that did not fit into the rubbish chute. So the tenants or the caretaker is to blame for not keeping the landings empty. The rubbish blocked access to the only staircase on the higher levels. The tenant where there was a 'small fire' ran off with his neighbour after he opened the window when he should have tried to put it out. the fames got out of the window and the inferno was the result. All those errors cost 72 people their lives. And even in this tragic case there have been 16 people (so far) who have been convicted of fraud form the Grenfell Fund, and are in prison. Between them they got over £900,000 and spent the lot. The 'proceeds from crime' unit have recovered nothing whatsoever, not one penny.
Dani Cotton & the brave firefighter who were there that night have NOTHING to be held accountable for!!
After 9/11, the stay put moto should have been put to bed, period. Honestly, how antiquated fire safety is in the UK is appalling.
I actually live in a tower block the same as Grenfell n when I first moved in the fire procedure was to stay put however the fire alarm has gone off a few times since being here n I can honestly say I didn't stay put I went straight outside.(I was also the only person to actually go outside)I will say though after Grenfell all the procedures were changed to make your way outside if possible and they have also put sprinkler systems in every single flat.I have to say though I am still trying to get out of here.R.I.P.TO ALL GRENFELL VICTIMS.
WOULD WOULD STAY INSIDE WHEN THERE IS A FIRE THAT'S THE NUMBER 1 RULE TO GET TF OUT!!
No extended ladders-hoses not long enough- no fire escapes - 1 set of stairs- bare wiring-not enough resources and cutbacks-substandard materials-the cladding is made of petroleum products which are highly flammable-lack of training-poor communication-ignoring Grenfell United which were the tenants who were very concerned about their concerns ignored! Destroyed a wonderful community of cultural richness!
Cultural richness...does that include the survivor who was jailed for18 years two weeks ago for multiple rape?
What was his name?
@@crabcrab2024 El Diablo -I do not know!✨☀️✨👵🏽✨☀️✨
@@crabcrab2024 It's Sajad Jamalvatan.
@@johnbird7357 Thanks for the information, John.
the problem was the 'stay put' policy.
In a prosperous nation such as ours, the fact that the brave men and women of our fire service did not have adequate equipment is absolutely outrageous. The stay put policy is also a decision made by someone and that person needs to answer for their stupidity.
Stay put is wrong. If its small or big fire. Everyone should come out. Just in case.
And yet dismay continues to make cuts to the fire service!!
Such an important interview. Really harrowing though
How nice of the council to be so concerned about people's safety all of a sudden. Wonder what the council is really up to. Would be interesting to know the exact proximity of this location, which they haven't disclosed of course.
Budget cuts had happened not long before the fire. Similar building fires had happened just prior to the fire and it was flagged as something wrong in these building without the cladding the government didn’t respond. Sit and shut the door procedure wasn’t built for this disaster they didn’t know. It all comes back to the same money and passing the buck. RIP to all who lost their lives and sympathies to the family and friends. Respect to the fire firefighters who went in that building. The cladding was already banned across Europe before this fire. Using it was criminal very sad indeed terrifying that even now it is still on towers across Uk .
He said it all. Feels like someone poured petrol on the side of the building...
The Towering Inferno in real life :(
Cladding is flammable but waterproof. WTF!!!! That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, why would they have something flammable wrapped around a building holding people.
Why is the firefighter masked and not his real voice?
waterproof and flammable padding did the devil himself design this building
These flats were neither self contained nor hermetically sealed, therefore people would have had a better chance of surviving!
Why don't fire departments have taller equipment or is it impossible to even think that way? Why someone to tell the Grenfell Tower residents to stay in their apartments seems ridiculous. This also happened when the World Trade Center Towers were hit in 2002....many other lives could have been saved on 09/11/01 had people refused to stay in their offices and left the buildings instead of waiting for someone to tell those who were waiting to be rescued. I was shocked when survivors of the World Trade Center disaster said they were advised to "wait" to be rescued !!! Sorry, but I would have left immediately.
Problem with extended reach appliances is vehicle size now in a perfect world streets would be clear and appliances could get near. But street parking makes getting suitable appliances close enough to be put into operation
even today nobody has been held responsible . 5 years later . there is supposed to be a report coming out next year . again no responsibility will happen .
Hindsight is always 20/20
My uncle ❣️ is a retired fire fighter . Madd respect for them. People wanted to blame them, but this was no way the fault of the fire fighters . They are working with what they are given.
Respect to these guys and girls that did the very best with the equipment they had 🏴🇬🇧❤️
The firefighter remaining anonymous was a disgrace and violates guidelines.
He is a coward
Ooh. Guidelines. 😮
Does anyone know what was the official cause of the fire?
Due to Covid-19 the Full Inquiry hearing is currently suspended but here's the short version:
Grenfell tower had no water sprinkler or fire suppression system, there was only 1 stair well which limited evacuation and rescue efforts, the fire alarm system was not fully functioning and the building's exterior was given a coating of waterproof panels, behind which was a mixture of flammable adhesives but would of been fire retardant on their own!
London Fire Bridage's "Stay put" policy would of be affective IF the building was up to fire regulations.
Long version:
The initial findings where that the external panels known as "Cladding" had mixture of 2 commonly used adhesive chemicals sandwiched within and behind the panel.
While normally these chemicals would self extinguish when exposed to a flame, lab tests results have revealed that when both are mixed together, they become flammable and melt!
This mean the fire was spreading behind a waterproof exterior panel, up along the walls, and the flames burst through windows.
The Cladding external panel prevented firefighter's water jet streams from extinguishing the fire's fuel source.
This fire was not reachable in height nor direction!
As flames climbed up the outside of the building, it rained fire from above on to fire fighters and police.
As the flammable materials burned away, burning bits of panels started to rain down on fire fighters below and police had to help evacuate people using riot shields as cover from falling burning debris!
...The London Fire Bridage tried to fight fires and evacuate from the inside of the building but with such a tall building, their oxygen tanks supplies ran out as they just start rescues and fighting the fires.
The LFB give a standard order of residents to stay put, this would of been appropriate and would of saved lived. However the fact the building's materials externally was flammable and the normal fire precautions were not up to standard undermined such a policy.
By time the realized the mistake and the building's abnormalities, the fire was long out of control and it was too late to evacuate people safely.
She only asked how the fire started she didn’t want the full invitation....... the fire started in a fridge freezer
@@slyfoxyandalifesaver Long winded rubbish. The cause of the fire was the tenant whose flat had no fire extinguisher in it. He was not going to put the fire out so he should never have opened the window before he ran for it.
A fridge set in fire
Yesterday I was at a party and I spent half of the party looking at the Grenfell tower
Firemen were real heroes on that night, I do not blame them, its TMO who should predict that fire brigade will not be able to save those people
Someone DID pour petrol down the side of the building. Polyethellene is a solid form of petroleum product. It is a solid fuel.
I still believe the firefighters management were most responsible for this tragedy. The stay put policy was put on by them when obviously wrong and kept on for hours when it had escaped the first room early on and was clearly not contained as the policy requires.
I think they were also responsible for certifying the cladding as OK for the building fire safety.
But i have no blame for fire fighters going into the building.
I would like to know how many people they told to stay put and were then brought out.
they should have just used a good old fashioned loud speaker
Some people closed their windows to try and prevent heat and smoke entering,
And to those who did open their windows, the fire may roar like a jet engine.
The long and short of it is that when London Fire Brigade realized what had happened, it was too late to evacuate or to try and contain the fire.
The firefighters look absolutely gutted. I can’t imagine. It’s like the building was clad with napalm. Just horrific. So many babies 😢
Rip to everyone who died in greenfell tower
Good explanation.
Stay put policy was just wrong. People died die to this horrific mistake how no one has been prosecuted is shocking
SAD
Wondering what role the lack of radio communication was play on the other end - the command end?
Did it take away from the recognition of the overall fire situation?
More concern for their own personal than that of the residents, perhaps!
Hope the individual firefighter doesn't have to deal with that, and leaves it to the chain of command.
the stay put were coming for u protocol shud be dismissed. after 9/11 the same thing got said then. this could of saved many more life's.
Multiple plane crashes the building isn't... normally on most risk assessments for buildings.
That's not really a standard to go by.
Grenfell was such a shocking incident because it wasn't up to fire safety regulations, had it be up to fire safety regulations then the fire would not of spread and everyone would of been safe staying where they were.
The fire server never got control of the situation in the first place because the fire was just that fast!
Thanks to this firefighter for telling us what we partly knew already that they should have let ppl out rather than telling them to stay in knowing the fire was spreading up. Where is common sense
Fireman are the real heroes such a difficult job subhaanallah
The people weren’t ARGUING that there had been issues with it THEY WERE telling them the land lord KNEW WHAT WAS WRONG AND DIDNT CARE THIS DESERVES TO BE A night mare tennant and slum landlord episode, OBVIOUSLY just about THE INFINITELY SLUM AS LANDLORD
Cost cutting cost lives.that tower block was put up cheaply.a tragic loss of life.and people are still suffering .buildings should not be built beyond firefighters reach.how long will it be before something like this happens again.
So sad
actually i checked there was approximately 600 people in there so 71 ? u people should learn math no joke
I am so sorry for those who had passed out on the tragic event and i do acknowledge the fact that (the only human) the LFB did try there best to save those in the building but i have to say that was a death trap R.I.P.
we live in the richest area of UK, London and Europe, and our emergency services cant do anything to stop this ?
i dont get what u mean
Abit to late about the stay put policy
brave brave men
The May government should invest more in London emergency services
I agree but all three emergency services need investment all over the country
There are only 9 million people in London, shouldn't cost that much eh?
@@johnbird7357 there was a fire near my house, and it took 45 mins to be put out. Britain fire brigades need an improvement
Does anyone think that the deaths were counted correctly ? I still can’t believe that they clad the building in a flammable facade ? I’ve never heard of a stand in place order during a fire ?
Can't people in danger think for themselves and GET OUT!? Some 999/911 operator 50 miles from the fire is not going to know how bad the fire is. Think for yourself and do what is needed.
sylvia koziarski. There were no fire alarms in the building. People who were able to get out called neighbors to alert them of the fire. Many were trapped by the time they knew a fire existed.
I've watched this a few times and figured that out. Thanks! (and listened to tragic survivor accounts)
have a look at this ruclips.net/video/WooaILwkBTw/видео.html
sylvia koziarski my thoughts exactly! Many where scared by the smoke in the corridors.. but my instinct would be to put wet towels over my face!!! And get out!!!
@@feurigerStern There WERE smoke alarms, they were on the communal landings. They were damaged by tenants who wanted to smoke outside their flats in those areas.
disgusting how they used that voice actor in that way
What’s more worse than everything I sleep in front of it and I live infront Of it
Move then.
Hard to believe that the building had no sprinkler systems Lytton
Et Al
to be honest no buildings in UK have sprinklers, public housings definitely dont
So many man made flaws were revealed in this fire, is any lesson ever learn through this tragic by the city political elite or they already forgotten it?
My flat has this cladding, nearly a year and they are still testing for new panels 😐
Gencturk92 it wont 🙄
Get a new flat
That's terrifying
Why are they hiding his face? As if anyone that knows him, wouldn't recognize his voice? Besides, it's not like he did anything wrong, so what does he have to hide from?
Very sad and disappointing disturbing the priority of the government is wrong godbless the fire brigade the people who are the unsung heroes
I wonder what the reason is for a fire to disrupt radio communication. I don't understand the physics behind it.
Ordinary semiconductors work bad at even slightly elevated temperatures (40-50C). Imagine it was near 70C or more in the building.
@@crabcrab2024 A LOT hotter than 70 degrees centigrade. Average temperature of a house fire is over 800 degrees centgrade
@@johnbird7357 Yes, I know, but firefighters don't go to such hot places. As far as I know they don't operate at temperatures exceeding 300 C, but I used the most conservative estimate possible. Should have made it 100 C, I guess.
@@crabcrab2024 Fire's easily exceed 300°C, and I can confirm that firefighters train and work in temperatures greater than that.
Heroes
WE PAY TAX ....WHAT IS IT BEING SPENT ON????? ......THE FAT CATS LIFESTYLES!
FAT CATS pay a lot more tax than the working class, even after dodging some.
Corporate Manslaughter.
Kathy D Government!!! Taken over by corporate!!
That should be a band name.
Only ONE person is responsible for that cladding., and that is the one whose i signature says it was safe to use.
Why cut corners with building regulations and materials being banned. Grenfell tower wouldn't have been that bad if materials were tested by safety regulations and all the residents may have survived.
Waterproof, flammable cladding and combustible insulation. Like covering a building with petrol.
Do not vote for the stinking Tory party
🙏🙏
Polyethylene + Al rainscreen is NOT PERMITTED above the fourth floor. The installation was straight illegal.
I think within a wk or so of Grenfell the council rats were out checking all the cladding on flats in my town.....
True Eyes,Realise,True Lies. Same in my adopted city too.
Impressive. Rats being trained as engineers.
National Fire and safety was a client of mine
People can draw great insightful inferences from the study of the causes of The Station Nightclub fire of Warwick, RI., USA. A great book was written by a lawyer of the subject of this fire and its csuses including the plastics that were tremendously flammmable. Ill get his name and come back. It is well written and a compelling account. In follow up there is an amazing video created by a family member called 41. I have to go get more info as tbese recommendations are incomplete. BRB
Happy Quails. Very interesting. I will check that out. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York City in 1911 was one of the deadliest in US history. The exit doors were locked with chains to prevent employees from leaving work early. The Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in Kentucky (1977) killed 165. Numerous fire and safety codes were violated. There were inadequate fire alarms. The fire started about 8:30 pm but the fire department wasn't called until 9:01 pm and the audience wasn't alerted to the fire until 9:06 pm when a busboy went out on stage to tell people to evacuate. The deadliest was the Cocoanut Grove in Boston in 1942 that killed 492 . The owner of this club locked exits, concealed others with draperies, and even bricked up one emergency exit to prevent customers from leaving without paying!
HappyQuails The book about the Station Nightclub fire is called "Killer Show". The cause was the manager of the band "Great White" illegally set off pyrotechnics during the opening song, which set highly combustible sound insulation on fire, ultimately causing the death of 100 people. There was a bouncer who wouldn't let people use the exit by the stage, claiming it was for the bands use only. Meanwhile, the front door crowded so bad that people were literally wedged into place and couldn't move.
Almost seems deliberate?
...Elaborate?
Not lol
Would it have been a practical suggestion for residents to burst their mains water pipe to flood their flat and have that water seep downwards? Nothing to lose in this situation.
Ummmm... I don't think it would be as affective as a installed fire suppression system like water sprinkers.
Also fire services can divert water supplies so they can use it for their efforts.
Honestly though, It probably have done little but prolonged the outcome.
It would have taken too long to flood the flat and would’ve just wasted time.
it was a year ago from when this video was released
72 ppl didnt die it was at least 200
Rubbish.
I agree the cladding should be removed from all buildings in the uk so this don't happen again!!!
Worst fire and worst equipment
They could’ve gotten helicopters out to rescue the people from the top floors.
People from the top floors could’ve jumped people could’ve put mattresses down so they could get out. More could’ve been done to save those who didn’t get out🥺
It doesn't work like that. The smoke and heat would make flying a helicopter so close to it very dangerous and at risk of crashing down. A mattress does nothing to prevent people from falling to their deaths from the 8th+ floors.
What i have said. Is what i call common sense. But what a terrible night that was for all involved.
and most terrible thing is that it was done deliberately, not an accident. The media will always cover it up.
Gencturk92 - Who and why was it done o tin foil hat?
Its called "social cleansing", to divide the poor and rich in the richest area of London, to demolish council homes and kill foreigners.