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@@pilotamurorei The "technical" original "Char's Counterattack" was Part 2 of Zeta if you go by the draft. It's a bit of a stretch to say it's the canon version, though. Tomino says that his idea for it works better as a novel anyway because it would've exceeded the movie runtime and completely ignored mobile suits (outside of the whole Amuro maybe married angle they didn't want). The Counterattack angle for Gaia Gear wasn't from Tomino, that was the Kadokawa folks. They're the ones who also arbitrarily assigned the date ranges from the late 180s into the 190s, despite Tomino saying he never agreed to them. And also to be fair, Gaia Gear was only ever announced with CCA as part of the title in a preview blurb and was never on the serialization proper. So it's a bit of a stretch trying to say it was the original, too.

@@deaconblues1823 Actually yes it was prublished as CCA: Gaia gear, proving again you dont know shit because you cant do searches in japanese. The very very early releases in Newtype had the subtitle chars counterattack in them. Id tell you how to search them, but you dont know Japanese so it would be a waste of time.

METASS

Great Video! Now do a SPoiler Video and tells us the difference between the manga/novel and movie! Because I Am not sure if I will ever find a copy of the manga where I live

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. Hi-Streamer was NOT the blueprint for the film. The film was already into production when Hi-Streamer first started it's seralization. Plus, if you actually read the novel, you'd know that the twelve chapters that were running up until the film premiere don't even showcase anything from the film (this led to it being shoehorned by the JPN fandom as a prequel of sorts, despite the novel proper telling a different story). The novel series initially started out as something that was going to be a sprawling epic story (ultimately Hathaway's Flash was going to end up as part of it). Tomino was trying to "escape Gundam" (which he'd try a few times). As for Beltorchika's Children, that came at the request of Kadokawa because they missed having a novel tie-in to the film when it debuted. Tomino said he had just the idea for a story, which is why he went back and used one of the original drafts (it's hinted that there were several other possibilities for film ideas) and gave them Beltorchika's Children. So there was no revision of a revision or anything of the sort.

@deaconblues1823 hi streamer is literally about char dropping an asteroid on earth and what was sunrise going to adapt. Cca was based off of hi streamer amd tomino later submitted bc but sunrise had rejected it.

​@@angellara7040 Again, you're flat out wrong. Have you even read a single page of Hi-Streamer or are you just senselessly parroting bologna? FIrst, the asteroid drop was always part of CCA's plot, it's outline in the original project proposal when the film idea was first pitched (I translated it and you can also find it in the CCA Artbook collection). Second, Tomino's afterword in the novels SPECIFICALLY states that Hi-Streamer started out as a desire to write a long-running story without fear of corporate meddling. Animage and its editors were happy to oblige. Ironically, the REVERSE of what you're claiming is actually true because they planned to incorporate elements from the FILM into the narrative before moving on past it (ultimately the goal was to include Hathaway's Flash, but that obviously changed later). So again, NO, CCA is NOT based off of Hi-Streamer and it WASN'T submitted as a substitution for Beltorchika's Children. If you'd even read HS then you'd realize a bulk of the third volume has vasty different events from the film version. Beltorchika wasn't submitted later, it was the FIRST idea that the investors rejected. It was later used as the basis for the motif novel which came at the REQUEST of Kadokawa, not for any other reason.

@@deaconblues1823 nice job twisting words. Hi streamer was first and sunrise choose to adapt it into a film but changed elements and plot while keeping the central problem the same. Tomino wrote bc as a revision to cca but sunrise stuck with the version they already had

@@deaconblues1823 it doesn't matter how different hi streamer is because it was just the general blueprint that was used as the base for cca. Just because its different doesn't mean anything

we all do. Although, I think I hate Nina Purpleton more...

You're still missing the point.

@@fattiger6957 All three volumes and BC have been translated. Every Tomino Gundam novel has been translated (though only V has yet to see completion).

@@deaconblues1823 High Streamer has been translated? I've only been able to find the first volume. Do you know where I can find the other two?

@@fattiger6957 They're on my website (Zeonic|Scanlations). Third volume will be available off Patreon at/around Thanksgiving, but it's been done for a while now.

I feel like, after the events of Zeta, Char lost all hope. IMO, he didn't care about any of his stated goals in CCA. I think it was all just a giant, elaborate lie to force Amuro into a duel to the death.

Cca char is different because he failed to help humanity and lost hope after the events of zeta, he openly says so when he questions how amuro can have hope in humanity.

I think that's some coping people who like Char do. It's totally believable to me.

I agree Char always intended to die. But I would go further in that I don't think he cared about anything other than dying in a glorious duel against his greatest rival. Everything just seems set up. And the way he treated Nanai and Quess (being completely insincere while manipulating them for his own ends) could be a reflection of how he saw everything. I think he was so broken from the events in his life that he lost the ability to feel any love for anyone or anything. He was a fighter and he just wanted to go out fighting.

@@fattiger6957 I think his internal dialogue gave good hints though, everything he vocalized can be classified as manipulation: 1) he admitted to himself he was doing something 'wicked'; and wanted Amuro to pay attention to it; 2) He was genuinely concerned that he might fail dropping Axis on Earth, 3) He reminisced about Lalah's dead, and how he caught Lalah and Amuro in a Newtype dialogue. After that he left frustrated. 4) He never ever thinks about Nanai, Quess or any other of his Neo-Zeon actors. They are all pions. I think it is pretty clear Char is doing everything he can to get Amuro involved, but also adamant Axis needs to drop: It was not only a political maneuver to have his forces rally behind, but needs to become a traumatizing event that humanity should overcome and better themselves of it. Even after the One Year War, the Gryps conflict and the First Neo-Zeon War Federation higher ups where perfectly fine going around their business as usual, instead of trying to get a dialogue with the people in space. The memory of Lalah's dead and follow up frustration could mean different things: sorrow he got Lalah involved in the first place (this is a voiced in Zeta), or the realization he created a situation where Lalah and Amuro became enemies, while they are in sort of a way all facets of the same desire and could have complemented each other, or use that moment as a starting point to heal the relation between old and newtypes. Instead, he did the selfish thing and went off oofing Kycilia, as he was selfish getting Lalah involved as a pion in the first place, just because he was afraid he couldn't measure up to Amuro. In 0079 there was a newtype flash during Amuro / Char's swordfight, that might have indicated they 'understood each other', and most of Amuro's / Char's tension afterwards was coming to terms that Char basically engineered the dilemma that got Lalah killed. He recruited her, he aligned himself and her with the Zabi's mission for selfish short term reasons (killing Zabi's and/or taking out Amuro), it is implied he was already building up his own fifth column (implemented in Tomino's 0079 novel), so if he would have prioritized that instead of his 'basically artificial' rivalry with Amuro, things could have been different. Unfortunately, the events up to CCA allow Char to become bitter enough to take cynical and manipulative choices where Amuro was trusting enough to let people get to their own conclusions, based on the relations he could form with them. In Zeta: Char tried to manipulate his own personal Amuro on his camp, and Camille resented Char for getting him involved while not willing to take up his Zeon mantel. Char failed to create a meaningful relationship, instead forged a useful alliance of convenience. Zeta in itself is a follow up on Newtype relations: even while being able to 'understand eachother' it requires effort to build up a meaningful relationship to truely communicate. It wasn't till Judeau that we got yourself a newtype protagonist that is a natural in creating bonds, even able to bond with Haman Karn, but Char is not around to learn from his example.

@@Tuning3434 Please use paragraph breaks. The comment is hard to read. But I still don't think Char had any lofty ideals about the future of humanity during CCA. I think he genuinely tried to in Zeta. He tried to be a better man, an inspirational man like his father. There was still a tiny flicker of optimism left in him. But then Zeta ended the way it did and the events of ZZ happened (which he was surely observing from the shadows) and those made that flicker go out. I think Char may have actually loved Lalah or at least felt more fondness to her than anyone since his childhood. He was using her, obviously, but he may have developed feelings for her. The "she might have been a mother to me," indicates some weird Oedipal complex and definitely was not a lie. Came off like more of a Freudian slip than anything else. While I don't think he death was his breaking point, it was another brick in his wall of pessimism. Char saw Amuro as a kindred spirit. His greatest rival. Amuro was probably the person Char admired the most. But he also hated Amuro for killing Lalah (and "stealing" her love) By CCA, Char really didn't seem like he cared about anyone else. He didn't even seem to care about his father's dream of spacenoid freedom and a Newtype future. He was going through the motions, just so he could trap Amuro into Char's glorious final duel. And Char surely wanted that duel to be as grand and epic as possible, thus the fate of the Earth being on the line. The one thing I can't figure out is what Char would have done had he beaten Amuro and survived. Did Char even intend to live? Did he have any plans? I doubt he would have been a good leader of Neo Zeon. I feel like he could have ended up like Degwin, an uninterested ruler who delegates everything to the point of being a puppet. It is annoying that there is so much left up to interpretation in CCA. I really think the story would have been much better served to be told in a longer form medium, like OVA or a full TV anime. the film just feels abridged and that's why the fans have to try to fill in the gaps like this.

I prefer Bel simply because CCA gives no reason why she and Amuro split up. Chan is ok but her death has zero emotional weight and even though Amuro clearly senses it, it has no effect on him whatsoever. He loses another love interest but it doesn't matter to him. And BC gives so much more meat to the story that I ended up preferring it. I don't know what the rest of the fandom is smoking to prefer CCA over BC. Its the same story but with more to it and actual stakes for Amuro to fight for.

and I always wished char stayed with the good guys

@@k.Miles789 Char was never a "good" guy. Beltorchika points it out plainly in Zeta.

@@narutoman876 I know, but I wished he was

I wouldn't mind that. I feel like the storytelling of CCA was the film's major flaw (too much for too little time) I think the story needs to be retold with more time to breathe. Maybe then we can finally get a good official Nightingale model that stacks up to the MG and RG Hi Nu

@@fattiger6957 Well, it is a Tomino product, and I feel like Tomino really liked his viewers to work for it. A bit ironic in a timeperiod where you couldn't really rewatch a show like Zeta without hoping for a rerun. In my headcanon, 0079 set up that Newtypes allow people to understand each-other, where Zeta shows the frustration that understanding might just add extra frustration, because individuals still make their own choices so long meaningful relationships aren't formed that are able to shift their perspectives. And in CCA you have two powers colliding, that do understand each other, have a basic idea on what they are trying to achieve, and both realize Char is too flawed to be of use in the next step in human understanding, and needs to die. Irony is that the franchise had to perpetuate itself, and the rest of UC is plain bitterness set to repeat itself because the franchise demands it. The UC fandom is making it impossible to conclude the story to its intended endgoal. If I where Tomino, that would frustrate me too.

@@Tuning3434 That definitely is one way to explain Tomino. I can't claim to be an expert on the man, but I have watched enough of his work (especially non-Gundam projects like Ideon, Brain Powerd and Vifam) to notice repeating patterns. He likes to have giant casts of characters, but often too many to develop properly. He likes to have a ton of subplots, but sometimes those go nowhere. He likes huge sci-fi ideas, but they can be underexplained and confusing to the audience. It feels like Tomino was a really ambitious creator, but frequently did not plan things out well. This may have been a result of the break-neck pace 70s and 80s anime was produced at. I definitely see serious issues with post CCA UC. Tomino and crew really did try to move on and soft reboot the timeline with Victory and F91, but both of those turned of terrible. So Sunrise decided to stick with what worked in the past. That's probably why we're trapped in this endless cycle of repeating ideas from OYW with Fed vs Zeon. I often wonder what Gundam would have been like had F91 been a TV anime that was able to tell its story properly and if Victory wasn't terrible. Would the AU timelines still be around? Would Gaia Gear have been animated?

In an ideal world Sayla would have actually been featured in CCA. It was truly a loss that Sunrise just didn't recast the role if the actress couldn't make time.

Gundam isn't exactly a happy go lucky franchise. One of my major complainst about UC is how it is just endless misery and hatred. Only a few years earlier, Sunrise ended Zeta by killing everyone off and having the hero go insane. I doubt Sunrise was ever against a tragic ending in Gundam.

​@@fattiger6957 I completely agree with your point about UC having so much endless suffering, I haven't seen every piece of media about it, but I know that it goes long enough that some of the entries with more optmistic endings about how humanity can change and live in peace feel shallow, like, Amuro dying to save earth didn't change a thing because we see that in F91 things are still the same, the federation is still corrupt, extremists promising freedom still commit atrocities and children keep finding themselves fighting in wars they shouldn't be a part of. I know it is realistic and my comment is more like a rant, but still, can't help, but feel like that. I do hear Turn A fixes a bit of it, but I have yet to watch it.

They didn't demand the movie be more like the Hi-Streamer novel. The Streamer novels are totally different from the film itself, not to mention that Hi-Streamer started out as something totally unrelated to the film itself in the first place. Tomino would later lament that the fans ended up shoehorning the 12 chapter initial serialization in as the "prequel" to the film before he continued with another 1.5 volumes worth of material that was different from the film itself. The CCA film everyone knows is NOT based on the novels. It's totally inaccurate.

Most of what you say isn't true. Hi-Streamer isn't what the movie is based on. It started out as another project with the intention of being its own sprawling thing. Tomino laments about the fact that it ended up being associated with the film and it's defacto prequel in the final volume. Beltorchika was born as a special project for Kadokawa after the fact because they dropped the ball and didn't have a tie-in to the film. It's based on his original draft idea for the film, yes, but it has zero ties. Hi-Streamer tells a very different story from the film and has divergent plot points. Give them a read.

​@@deaconblues1823 zero ties to to high streamer or CCA?

@@DSan-kl2yc If we are being technical, none of them are tied to one another. The two novels and film are all independent. Hi-Streamers plot is vastly different from the film, plus I don't get how people think it's based on the novel when the actual film portion wasn't published until AFTER the prequel parts were serialized. Baffling. Beltorchika's Children, while it does reuse the original Amuro married idea, from the editor of Kadokawa, it sounds like he had several draft ideas for the film and delivered that novel very quickly to them. That and Hi-Nu never appeared in the novel. That is another fan misconception.

@@deaconblues1823 Wait, so high streamer came out after CCA the film??

@@cezarjulian0320 No, Hi-Streamer started out as a serial before the film but it had no ties to it. The project was eventually slated to borrow elements from the film and then move past it, but ultimately it never did bring more.