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Lots of good information in this presentation. I'd like to hear a professional description of the definitions of, and differences between 'projection' and 'gaslighting'. Over my 76 years (50 of them 'out) I've interacted with people who used both. At one point, in the early stages of a relationship, a guy told me, "I can be very controlling." I responded, "You'll try it once." We got along very well after that.

Excellent discussion. As a 59 yr old from suburban UK I grew up without any positive role models at all. My parents had no religion, but a pervasive atmosphere of shame attached itself to many aspects of culture in relation to sex. Respectability was everything. Unmarried mothers, divorce, anything that strayed from rigid norms was infused with shame. You are doing such valuable work unpicking the remnants of that culture and trying to create a more loving and hopeful society.

Relatable and realistic views

“If you don’t find the space, make it”, brilliant! I actually was one of the founders of the lgbt+ alumni group in my uni, trying to connect with professionals some years ago. Now I found not one, but two queer dance groups, and I’ve made great friends. My husband has found groups for rock climbing, running marathons and playing board games as week! And yeas, we have our clubbing friends, but also friends to go to museums, concerts, plays, and even traveling. Maybe virtual groups are not for everyone, but I love being part of the brotherhood, I never thought I’d be part of a digital group like this, and listening to you every week lifts me up so much. So I hope everyone finds their groups x

I think its because being gay comes with a long timeline of trauma from when we first realize our feelings, to the horrifying perception of what would happen if our friends, family and peers find out. When gays tend to congregate its like we have this place where they spill all their trauma in a toxic and unhealthy way. Generations of hatred, shame, and not feeling adequate enough for this heteronormative society takes a major toll on the gay and queer community in general. I find it hard to be spiteful or condemn the gay community because i am sympathetic enough to know that generally there is a lot of mental trauma unburdening that occurs throughout a gay mans life.

Andrew Schultz who laughed at tRump!

I still don't feel like there is a place for me. Maybe it's because I came "Of Age" in a time when gay meant AIDS.

Yes sin is shameful but Jesus removes this when we repent of this sin

I want to offer a different POV and my experience. My intention is not to be contentious but I want to offer it if it relates to anyone else. I do not believe the gay community is an actual community. I do not believe that being gay makes you a community. (Why else would we keep having these conversations and why else would this be a recurring theme if it was a community?) That word “community” is supposed to connote a sense of belonging. However, what is it that I was actually trying to belong to? I personally just call it a “population” now, instead of a community. (This is my experience if you want to read) In my experience, especially in my formative gay years (2010; I was about 19 years old), it was incredibly detrimental when people kept reinforcing this “community” and creating this rhetoric of “just be yourself; don’t hide, show your pride; it gets better; you’re safe here”. Then using these “dating/hookup” apps and seeing “no fats, no fems, no Asians”, it made me wonder why do I want to belong to this community? Is it a community? And it made me regret coming out at all. Of course, using those apps is not great for building a community. I can understand not being someone’s preference, but why would I want to belong to this “community”? I kept trying to go to Pride events but It felt like I was fighting for someone else’s Pride. Then people keep making excuses “well, there are many parts of a community…” but why would I still want to belong to that though? I’ve grown since then and I found belonging elsewhere. My friends are my community. Some of them are gay/ lesbian/ trans etc but that is not what makes us a community.

Just another observation from a gay boomer ("OK, boomer"). Gay men do not have ENOUGH non-sexual venues to meet each other, unless your community has a gay athletic program, e.g., gay bowlers or hikers. Men over 55 have Prime Timers in large communities. But I live in 1 of the largest cities in the USA and there are hardly any amenities for gay men except bars, baths, certain restaurants and coffee houses or sex-apps. I met my husband at work, not in some feverish rank "back room". I have a young friend who tried to use SCRUFF to make friends locally. So he created a profile saying that he was looking for friendship, not sex (although this would be a possibility after getting to know each other). Everyone who replied and met him wanted sex first, saying that they didn't take his profile seriously, and they thought he was hot. So the level of superficiality out there is astonishing. Even if you specifically say you want to get to know someone, gay men won't believe you! Of course, this is the story of men who get all their gay contacts from sex apps. So perhaps my friend's experiment was illogical but he didn't know where else to go.

I am 72 and lived for 20 years in the heart of the San Francisco Castro District. I always felt really alien there. I was searching for love,kindness and comiseration, but what I saw were a lot of wounded souls with invisible walls around themselves. We brutalized each other, which I later realized was internalized homophobia. Happily, I met a guy OUTSIDE the gay community. We've been together 47 years but this required literally fleeing from the gay community. When we met, the Castro mantra was "So many men, so little time" and I was told that having a committed relationship was me trying to be "hetero-normative", as if only straight people desired love, trust and commitment, while being gay was only about being buff, hot and sexually active. Then AIDS hit, but evidently nothing has changed. Young men tell me it is much worse now. Let's admit that the gay community is toxic and dysfunctional. To survive, you may need to leave the gay community. I have a memory that still chills me. Like so many gay men, I belonged to a gym in the Castro that was 99% gay men. I almost killed myself trying to bulk up. I succeeded but it did not help my self-esteem, since there was always someone more buff than me. But the point is that one night I was exhausted from weight lifting, and I just looked out at the gym floor. I saw all these human beings trying desperately to look like the gay "Tom of Finland" muscular "tight-jeans" and "tight tee-shirt" ideal. Some were naturally skinny or short/squat. And I had an overwhelming feeling of compassion for all these guys who were desperately torturing their bodies, because this was portrayed as the path to love and acceptance. And I knew then that it was sick. I left that gym and never went back (although I still exercise for health purposes, not looks, even at my age). Obviously, at my age I am too old for the gay community, but I have no regrets. The youth obsession seems so ingrained (and the age at which a gay man is considered "old" keeps going down) that I am expecting some gay men to consider a fetus "too old". Just kidding. And for the record, I had 5 years of therapy from a brilliant psychiatrist. The average level of trauma in a gay man would astonish a straight person, although everyone suffers in their own ways (and this can be the REAL path to growth and personal evolution).

I would absolutely NOT take that pill. I went through the inevitable adolescent angst but as I approached my 20s that transformed into pure joy. Gay or straight or all the gradations in between, we all face life challenges. At 72, I’m out of the relationship game. But I still love being gay.

Michael brings up some very valid points at the outset. Reno subsequently brings up another thing that rings true with me; I realize and accept I don't belong to certain aspects of the gay community. I've gotten to the point where I try to stay in the present, realize my gayness is but one part of me, and hopefully will find my tribe within the gay community.

I have watched several of your great videos and I am amazed that you mention having low self esteem, except Reno, albeit a lot less than previously. None of you guys come across as having self esteem issues, I see strong, confident gay men!

This podcast is like me more into deeper connection ❤

My parents are monogamous loving, caring family environment. When i explore my sexuality i see no value doing hook up and be on non monogamous relationships . My life feels meaningless. I know im monogamous ever since so i pursue my intuition now. Still searching for monogamous relationships

So much here that resonates with me..tried to reconnect with the community...didnt work out, was no better than in the past, maybe worst. So now on my own. But more contented

I am an ex Calgarian lol. Great discussion! I grew up with a lot of abuse and have never fit in to any group really, I'm also an artist so rarely meet people who can relate to that. Entering the gay world in the late 80s was not super positive, in the wake of AIDS, and people were just kinda awful at the time, we listened to New Order and thought the world would end soon! I have only one gay friend who lives in Toronto so haven't seen him in 20+ years but occasionally talk. So really no gay friends or even straight friends but I have a partner of 37 years! A lot of gay men my age, 50s, are pretty emotionally damaged because of the times we grew up in. Younger men, millennials, couldn't seem to care less about someone my age or anything I have to say, they think I'm from the 1850s maybe? I don't really care anymore, I just accept the stupid world we have to live in, maybe a cooler generation will come along one day? I sometimes meet nice gays but mostly just accept I will never feel kinship with this group.

I'm so agree with Michael......1000000%, this is why I don't belong to the gay community.it's all about outside...size matter, clothing matter etc.etc...our community gets more lots from them self more and more. this is not what I want, and I feel very safe and good. what I Hear most, based on my own experiences ist, that gay people pretend, the rest of the world has to accept for who we are. BUT WHY WE DON'T ACCEPT OURSELF IN THE GAY COMMUNITY?? it start there......

I love how you guys open yourselves up each time when discussing the podcast topics! thank you for this episode from the bottom of my heart 💕 I myself as a gay man, who feels a lot of the times alienated and alone in this community, it is so nice to see, that we have souls in this community who value kind, authentic and open-hearting human relating ❤I am part of this community, who values physical intimacy more as a kind and genuine conversation and discussion. It breaks my heart, but I learnt how to shield myself from those interactions where I can be excluded based on what I value and invest in like opening up in a kind and constructive discussion and what I cannot let in, like a quickie without emotional implications. Keep up doing the good work, even if the majority maybe still craves the superficial, there is a handful of people that enjoys deep discussions and a vulnerable soul. Thanks again ☺

Thank you for the video.

All gay men, just like straight men, have the freedom as individuals to decide what they want to do. Each gay man should not live up to anyone's expectations within the gay community. I once had several former gay friends who were using illegal drugs, and I have never engaged in using any illegal drugs. I no longer visit gay bars and do not drink alcohol since I know alcohol is not healthy. I am over 60 years old and married to a wonderful man. I have never succumbed to peer pressure, and I make decisions that are beneficial to my life and health. Except for a significant other or husband, family, and a few friends, other people do not care what you do with your life. Don't waste your time worrying what others think about you. You are in control of your own life. Do what is best for you. As long as you feel that you are making wise decisions, your life will turn out well. You are still a part of the gay community no matter what you decide in your life. We are diverse like all communities.

The arrogance and narcissism are strong in this episode. No wonder you don't feel a sense of belonging.

I've been catching up on a lot of these old episodes and admit this one made me uncomfortable from the get go. I have been rediscovering my sexuality and freeing myself through the apps to explore and compartmentalize whatever I wish. I am experiencing joy and feel no shame, but with the first story related here, I felt judgement and being 'shamed' by Callen as he related his story of a hookup with a guy who didn't want to kiss, and then blamed that on the guy's 'shame'. It felt unfair to me for Callen to push 'blame' or 'fault' or 'flaws' off on the other guy for something he didn't wish to do that Callen wished to do. In the hookups I've had, 'arrangements' have always been made clear prior to a hookup so nobody is arriving in expectation of something the other party is uncomfortable with, and I was surprised that Callen didn't make his wishes (to kiss) clear prior to the hookup. The other guy, whatever his reasons are his reasons and not to be judged by Callen according to Callen's standards. Callen's approach to 'romance' seems to me to be hetero-normative, but that is my judgement and something I wouldn't normally share with him, but might ask him if he hadn't considered that. Not all gay men always want romantic relationships. I was kind of hoping this discussion would delve into many more kinds of sexuality expressed by gay men than one kind. I am seeing many kinds of kinks and interests through the apps and though many of them are not for me, I don't judge them, but find each one very intersting to explore in terms of desire or fantasy of where they come from and where that thrill or excitement or interest comes from. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, but felt the need to share this. I refuse to be 'shamed' or 'judged' by others for however I wish to express myself sexually. As long as I'm not breaking any laws, all doors are open to me (and anybody else).

I'm 55 and it's incredible how these feelings have not changed generation to generation. Thank y'all for this podcast, so glad it found me.

Am I right in understanding that this relationship no longer exists? Can you share with us in an episode, the circumstances that led to the ending of a relationship? Was it an insurmountable circumstance or did you both evolve beyond a place where remaining together was counter to each of your spiritual growth? I think it might be helpful as topic matter in navigating relationship endings. If you've already done an episode about this, please tell me where to find it on your channel. Thank you.

Watch the full episode here: ruclips.net/video/OQRtiVF-n5g/видео.html

I'm now considered old and do not have any gay friends. I appear to be completely invisible to other gay men. Yet straight men speak to me, or at least acknowledge me. Why do so many gay men ignore other gay men if they don't find them attractive? I'll happily say hello but the look of disgust on their faces tells me they don't want an interaction with me. I find it sad.

I think that everything that was said in this video clip is right on for all men to consider weaving into their thinking, processes and interactions with other men or women for that matter. Sexuality or sexual identity is fluid. And community involvement is also fluid. You can either choose to be involved with the LGBTQ plus community or not, or even be marginally connected to it. It’s all a matter of personal choice. And it’s always good to be inclusive of everyone no matter their preferences, religions, races, color of skin, country of origin or languages. We are all each other‘s brothers and sisters.. We are all in this together and we are completely responsible for creating our own realities.

Being a middle-aged gay man who came out late in life, I have never really felt like a part of the larger gay community. Just as I was ostracized for not being "straight enough" around straight nen; I have also been aware of not being "gay enough" around gay men. It's been really tough 😪

for me and mental trauma it's going to be the stereotype sex positions. in dating it seems like all my boyfriends were tops. im versatile but now I haven't topped in about a year or so. my boyfriend and I stated we are verse on jackd but since then for about to years ive been the bottom. i don't know if men scare me into being a bottom or society and social norms. now of days it's what people are saying that their are no more tops and everyone is either a bottom or verse. one day I was taking a walk and this guy saw me and threating me saying he was going to blow my head off if im seen walking down the street. idk if it's because the clothes I wear or he say something in me from my sexual position. since then i got traumatized and changed my position again from being verse or bottom to top. then afterwards through many sexual encounters and dating I felt like I had no fear, and that I was the man. i slowy grew out of that and begain to be a verse again or a bottom. my trauma came back to me again about the guy in the car, people telling me to man up, bottoms treating me not so well or at least I thought they were. now im feeling torn again and sometimes I would get neck from my boyfriend of two years of him being a top and wanting me to top. but I don't want to mess that up. idk what's going on and people seem to read me gay or straight, saying things about my sexual position like calling me girl, or you should be the girl, or you should be a mean girl (bottom) or saying things like "I know you" etc. this happen or stuff like this happen through out 5 or 6 years ago..I don't know if it's bad energy, or other peoples bad energy..im torn...any advice?

Almost 24 hours since its release and this video struggles to hit 1k views. I think this alludes to the mass delusion among many in the gay community - that they are already self-actualised and have nothing more to work on. I appreciate these videos, but they are unfortunately preaching to the converted. Most gay men are unwilling to confront the endemic blight on their lives that is internalised homophobia and low self-worth, which continue to fuel the drive for legitimacy and validation through the unrelenting worship of white hegemonic masculinity (which perpetuates the exclusion and oppression of anyone without these traits) and the pursuit of hedonism in the guise of liberation and progressiveness. In spite of advances in queer rights, gay men regardless of generation seem to me no less affected by internalised homophobia and its consequences. Perhaps that could be a topic for another video.

The way in which i don't belong in the gay community is that i find the pop diva gays and the whole culture around it insufferable. Do i like pop? Yes i do, but im also a metalhead and very eclectic overall when it comes to music and the utter obssession with pop and the pop girlies is tough to undure. I've even seen the story of a couple where one of the men was thinking about ending things because his boyfriend could not stop talking about taylor swift the whole fucking day everyday and he couldnt handle it anymore lol its too much sometimes.

There are more flakes in the gay community than a head full of dandruff.

I've tried to get deeper with you guys, but you are way over my head. I'm unsubscribed now. I can't get past your frequent use of the word "qveer" . I'm a 70-year-old gay man & am tired of young people using that word as synonymous with gay. My husband of 45 years together are isolated from the Gay community. When we were younger we were quite involved. We even went to the March on Washington (DC) years ago. Goodbye & hope other's can benefit from your discussions, i cannot. I think I'm just too old.

As a gay Asian male I often feel ostracized from the gay community. I can meet some nice gay men one on one but in a broader sense I know many gay men are not interested in getting to know me. For Asian Americans this is not just relegated to the gay community (straight Asian people also face subtle and not so subtle racism all the time), but it feels worse when you’re gay. I think many of us hoped we would be accepted in the gay community, but we face the same kind of stereotyping and dismissal and we are gay. So it all feels extra painful.

Thank you guys so much for this discussion. Funny how we think we are the only ones who think we don't fit in. Thank you for normalizing this. For a long time, I have felt like I don't belong. I've felt weird, odd, awkward, etc. As I grow older, I have learned to give myself grace for feeling this way. However, when I do find myself meshing with people who are on the same wavelength, I get this intense warm and fuzzy feeling that makes me want to cry. That's when I feel like I found my tribe. Those have been some of the best moments.

i don't belong in the community because it's gone q**** and I am far too gay to be q****. If I'm still around when compbi crashes we'll see.

I do not want to be part of the gay community because what they do with each other)

I was never good dealing with boys when growing up, games, conversation, the whole dynamic. Years later I find out I like them that way... I did not learn to "play with the other boys", nowadays that is costing me dearly.

I feel exactly the way Matt describes in this video around the 15:00 mark of this video. And as I've gotten older I feel even more different and excluded due to my age. It seems impossible to meet a group of guys who are like me who want to just hang out with and do random things like meet for dinners, go to a movie, travel. I'm tired of how superficial the "scene" feels and want to communicate on a more deeper level than hearing other gay men continually focused on sex, parties and bars.

I'm 74 now and went through a lot of attitude changes about belonging to the gay community. Camaraderie is a joy but not indestructible. Feeling connected will vary. Just roll with it. Disappointments and special times come and go. Be you but if you can't, be cautious or leave. No one is a true lone wolf nor everybody's pal.

Great topic, important discussion. The exaggerated uptalk is disruptive, though. Thank you for making this content available.

important issue to address!

It takes time to feel almost happy through aging. It can’t be rushed. Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly but it will always materialize if you work for it.

I'm guilty of what Matt talked about in terms of "rejecting before being rejected". I've developed bad habits based on that like what Reno says about acting aloof or macho around new people, especially someone I find attractive. In some ways it's also about hiding my gayness (when I let my guard down, my mannerisms -- blushing, talking with my hands, etc -- come through). I'm glad I'm at least aware of the problem and can take steps to being willing to open up when I feel safe rather than shutting out completely everyone I meet.

Read, digest, then reflect on a book entitled “The Courage To Be Disliked.” I think it might move the needle.

Another very real, and valuable, topic! I've never felt completely welcome in the Gay community and seem to gravitate toward straight events/places/clubs, etc. It's unfortunate for sure.

Watch the full episode here: ruclips.net/video/OQRtiVF-n5g/видео.html

I feel so seen! Well done guys!!