We're so glad to hear that we're making a positive impact. It's our goal to spread light and support within the community. Thank you for sharing your appreciation.😍
Extremely valuable and hard-to-find content. I feel that gay men are highly devalued and dismissed in society. Most people don't really care about our struggles. We need to love and care for each other, even if (or because) society doesn't care about us and views us negatively. Your channel helps accomplish this important task, and we need the value that you provide specifically to gay men. Please keep it up!
Thank you for your kind words. It's important to remember that we have a community that cares about us, even if society doesn't always. Your support means a lot. We'll continue to do our best to provide valuable content for gay men.🥰
@@dragonshreya26 Thank you for sharing! There’s so much more to gay/queer men’s experiences than what’s often portrayed, and the trauma is real. We're glad this channel resonates with you-healing and community matter. We’re in this together! 🌈
It’s refreshing to hear three gay men talk so honestly and with such vulnerability about their struggles and the challenges they face, even if they are trained therapists. It takes so much courage to confront our deepest insecurities that most gay men would unfortunately not be searching for content like this, let alone present to therapy. This is reflected in just 4.3k views in 8 days when it deserves 430k at least.
Agreed. Had no idea this existed, already sent it to someone who will need it. Deserves to become more well known. I’m British, from an older generation, introspection was not encouraged, fighting battles for acceptance in the 80s and 90s, great to see a more nuanced and perceptive approach now ❤
Thank you so much for your kind words and for recognizing the vulnerability we bring to this conversation. It's true, we face the same struggles and challenges that many in the community experience. It takes a lot of courage to confront our insecurities, and we're grateful that our content resonates with you. We hope that by creating a space for these open and honest discussions, more people will feel empowered to explore their own journeys. Your support means a lot to us, and we appreciate you for taking the time to engage and share this message.🥰
Building platonic relationships and intimacy between gay men can indeed be challenging, as sexual feelings can naturally arise between gay men. But I like the idea.
That's a great point. It can be difficult to maintain platonic relationships when there's a natural attraction between two men. However, it's definitely possible to build strong and supportive friendships without crossing boundaries. It's about respecting each other's feelings and communicating openly.😍
This is the video I needed before the seven week course with you Michael. I was nervous, still am, but I am emboldened to work through sexual stuff and relationships. And to have the strength to be honest while sharing! My biggest difficulty right now is platonic relationships in the gay community. I am that alone person in the gay community. I have trauma around sex, and our community always leaning towards that has me shutting down any connections.
Glad the video helped! It's okay to feel nervous. Your courage is admirable. Platonic relationships can be tough. Take it slow and prioritize your comfort.🥰
Im an older gen x'er. The only challenges I've had was from physical, emotional, verbal; abuse from fearful / hateful straight people, and the era of premedication hiv days. Aside from the ptsd from those, I feel I've been pretty successful and normal/ average on most levels. I have a career and m/m spouse of over 20 yrs. Creating a family of choice and learning to let go were keys to being happy for me.
It's inspiring to hear about your resilience and how you've overcome the challenges you've faced. Your ability to create a loving and supportive family of choice is truly commendable. It's great to know that you've found happiness and success despite the obstacles you've encountered.🥰🥳
it’s absolutely despicable!!! i can’t believe how many people forget about our gay/trans ancestors!!! you can’t move forward if you don’t address their wounds!!!
Thank you for this video, I can relate to some of these issues as well. It's not easy, there is fear, rejection and ridicule (even made as fun/joke). I held back in announcing that I was homosexual, but I don't advertise it but I think people close to me knew/speculated. If they approach me and ask then I would say so, but if they don't I do not bring it out, again it's context. For example, at work I do not divulge in conversations around sexual orientation, because it is not the right context and can be viewed as "inappropriate.' It's a struggle, I have very few straight men friends, aside from the guys I went to school or childhood friends. I seem to notice that when I'm around straight men as acquaintances or friends of friends, there seem to be a disconnect or avoidance in conversations and seem to not get too close or involved in you to strike up a possible friendship, if that makes sense. I also had a homophobic roommate once and that was difficult as well and at that time in college, he would make snide/offensive remarks about how gays in the military and in high positions "screwing" things up, also how I carried myself as not being "masculine." That was a long time ago, but from that experience I felt like I had to be "straight" because it's not accepted and tried to change myself and conform to society's expectations. In addition, it feels like I'm an outsider and alone at times, and it is sad to say that some men in the gay community only hang around/associate only to "attractive" people and do not have the full support to associate with other that may not have that same level of "attractiveness," or getting to know that person's personality and interested - it's very superficial. I get it that we do gravitate to the adonis of men with the muscles and abs, but I wished that it wasn't all about that and just be more supportive in that sense and be open to others that do not fit that mold. But, this podcast here is very helpful and I'm grateful for you guys in creating this forum to talk about issues and struggles, and providing advice and solutions. So, thank you :)
It's great to hear that you're finding support and connection through this podcast. Your experiences are valid, and it's understandable that you've faced challenges. Remember, you're not alone. Many people in the LGBTQ+ community have similar experiences. It's important to surround yourself with people who accept and support you, regardless of their sexual orientation. Keep seeking out positive connections and remember your worth. 🌈💖
When everything you feel inside does not agree with how you are expected to feel, told to feel, and see other kids feeling, it leaves you with a sense of not belonging, and not knowing what to do to blend in with the world around you.
Thank you for expressing this so clearly. It’s such a difficult experience to feel out of sync with the expectations around you, especially when everyone else seems to fit in so naturally. That sense of not belonging can be really isolating, and it takes a lot of strength to navigate those feelings.❤
One of the biggest challenges for me is all the overthinking. Am I straight-passing enough to hang out in this place without fearing judgement or fearing for my safety? Am I gay enough to hang out in this place without feeling like a square / like I'm too boring? I'm the youngest of 4, with 2 of those older siblings being brothers and for a long time I could mask more easily by copying what they did - playing football, learning guitar - but it's so annoying to my own brain that I associate those things with being a straight man. All the questioning and doubting is very loud in my head and makes it hard to relax unless I am completely alone.
Thank you so much for sharing this. The constant overthinking and pressure to fit into different spaces is so relatable. It's okay to take things at your own pace to find what feels genuinely right for you.😍
Would've been interesting to see you guys bounce off each other more, give feedback on experiences, relate to some, etc. Felt like each of you were pretty self-contained and just waiting for your turn to speak. It didn't make the convo feel very dynamic. Just my perspective as a first-time viewer. Great topic though 🫡
Thanks for your feedback! We appreciate you watching. We'll definitely try to make the conversations more interactive in the future. Your perspective is valuable, and we'll keep it in mind for our next episodes.🙂
I grew up in a small town and went to a catholic boys school which was awful; being bullied, physically abused and could not talk to anyone about that. I thought going to a large city to work I would meet people like me and feel more comfortable, however my experience of other gay men was not very positive and I met some of the most vile, vulgar, hedonistic, egocentric people and decided that it was best to just stick with the straight friends I had as they were more supportive. Now in my 50's I have missed out on any opportunity to have gay friends and the fear of trying again is too great.
It's understandable that you've had negative experiences with the gay community after going through such a difficult time growing up. Your experiences with bullying and abuse are traumatic, and it's completely normal to feel hesitant about trying again. Remember, not all members of the LGBTQ+ community are the same. There are many kind, supportive, and genuine people out there. It might take some time, but you'll eventually find a community that makes you feel accepted and comfortable.😍
@@GayMenGoingDeeper LOL It doesn't work like that when you're over 50 and 60. It's too late to find any new friends let alone gay ones. particularly if you live in the country.
@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax That's a common misconception. While it might be harder, it's definitely not impossible to make new friends, even as an older adult. You may consider joining our Facebook group here: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
That's a great point. Insecure attachment styles can definitely make it difficult to form healthy relationships, both platonic and romantic. It's important to be aware of your own attachment style and to work on building healthier relationships. Remember, healing from past hurt takes time, but it's possible to develop secure attachment styles.🙂
Well, the first thing we are showing here are biceps. That isn’t exactly the first thing you notice about Einstein in images of him. Indeed, as a gay senior man, age 65, who came out in 1974, that’s what I have observed and lived with gay men. The surface, the physical, the superficial, the shallow. GQ and Hollywood. Looks and money. We might do well to get beyond that and act like human beings for once. That being said, I’m very happy to see this group happening.
Thank you for sharing your perspective and experiences. We appreciate your honesty and the wisdom that comes from your journey. It’s true that the focus on the physical can sometimes overshadow deeper connections, but it's heartening to know that we can create spaces like this where we can explore beyond the surface and build more meaningful connections. We're glad you're here and happy to have your voice in the conversation.🥰
As someone who has only recently discovered their sexuality it has been hard. I am currently in a community that is not accepting, meaning my family and the general society isn’t. Luckily I have a few friends who are, but the tricky thing is some of them who are accepting are attracted to me and it makes it more complicated to open up. As someone who has only dated and been with women, finding out you might be dealing with comphet has been devastating. I wake up on some days and I hate myself, hate the person that seems to be inside me that wants to come out, hate that he is going to make my life so much harder, hate the fact that the he might be a she, hate the fact that they might want to bottom and what that says about me. It’s really been hard, I don’t know how to move on. But I am glad I found this channel, it makes me feel less alone
Thank you for sharing what you’re going through-it sounds incredibly tough, and we can only imagine how confusing and painful it must be to navigate all of these feelings, especially in an unaccepting environment. It’s okay to feel conflicted and uncertain right now; this journey is different for everyone, and it’s perfectly normal to have days where it feels overwhelming. We're really glad you’ve found some support here and that the channel helps you feel less alone. Remember, it’s okay to take things one step at a time and be kind to yourself as you figure out who you are. You don’t have to have all the answers right now. Sending virtual hugs!💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I never thought I would get a reply, especially on the sane day. Thank you so much for that, thank you for taking the community you are trying to build very seriously. You guys are one of the light houses in this confusing world.
@@Stevenxy-xc2vx Thank you so much for your kind words. It means a lot to hear that our efforts are making a difference. We're committed to being here for the community, and we're really glad the response reached you when you needed it. Your support keeps us going, and it's a reminder of why we do what we do. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us-we’re all navigating this confusing world together, and we're grateful we can be a lighthouse for each other.🥰🤗
The contrast between the empathy and compassion shown in these comments and the 90% of anger and misery expressed on YT comments is remarkable. Keep up the good work ❤
@@davidr7819 Thank you for noticing that! It means a lot to us that this space feels different and more compassionate. We’re grateful for this community and will definitely keep striving to keep the positivity going. Your support is appreciated!
I think my big challenge is loneliness. I live in a rural area in the Sierra Nevadas and don't have gay people around to connect with. I love living in the mountains and have never been a city person. The way I deal with the loneliness is to stay busy taking care of my animals as a distraction and receive unconditional love.
Thank you for sharing that. It’s really tough to feel isolated, especially when you’re living in such a beautiful but remote place. The peace of the mountains is amazing, but I completely understand how the lack of a nearby community can feel lonely at times. It sounds like your animals provide a lot of comfort and love, which is so important. They really have a way of filling up some of those empty spaces, don’t they? It’s great that you’ve found ways to cope, but if you ever feel like you need more connection, even if it’s virtual, there are communities online where you can find support and friendship. Sometimes just knowing there are others out there who understand what you’re going through can make all the difference. Thank you again for opening up-it means a lot. You may consider joining our Facebook Group, here's the link: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
Omg Reno, Barbie dolls, Beauty and the Beast, girl friends… it’s like looking into a mirror… except for a supporting role in my childhood. Of course it’s not our parents fault, they were only trying to protect us, and they just were part of an ignorant generation, it wasn’t completely their fault. It was so hard for me to hide it, I was such a feminine child, and I know I was different ever since I can remember. I have always been also very sexual like Matt, since I was extremely young, curious and easily aroused (still am haha). So of course hiding it was a nightmare for years. But now, Like Michael, I’m having the time of my life, enjoying all the gayness in my glitter coated soul! Thanks guys, xoxo
Omg, you're twins! Barbie dolls, Beauty and the Beast, girl friends... it's like you've lived the same life. Except you had the added bonus of being a super-sexual child. We're all just here trying to survive and thrive in this crazy world, one glitter-coated step at a time. Thanks for sharing your story!😍😉
I have watched several of your great videos and I am amazed that you mention having low self esteem, except Reno, albeit a lot less than previously. None of you guys come across as having self esteem issues, I see strong, confident gay men!
Interesting point that Michael brings up about the life continuum between the time one learns he/she is gay and when they say "I'm happy I'm gay." Perhaps not everyone is destined to be happy they are gay. In my case, I feel my destination point is more of a mission-oriented one, in terms of accomplishing my purpose I've been given by a Higher Power. For example, my artistic expression, whether it be through music or gardening or whatever. And I'm okay with that. I don't necessarily need to feel happy to be gay but can be fulfilled in other areas. Also, as Matt mentions, I inherently crave platonic connection with other men, rather than a sexual one. I guess this stems from my emotional attachment style.
Thank you for sharing your unique perspective. It's powerful to recognize that fulfillment can come in many forms, and it's okay if your journey as a gay man is more mission-oriented rather than centered on finding happiness in your identity. Your focus on artistic expression and platonic connections is a beautiful way of living out your purpose, and it's important to honor what feels authentic to you. Everyone’s path is different, and it's great that you've found what brings you meaning and contentment.💕
Thank you for sharing. That anxiety is something many of us can relate to, and it’s tough being in those situations. It’s important to acknowledge how difficult it can be when people aren’t aware of the impact of their words. We appreciate you being part of this conversation!❤💖
Having gay friends is my struggle. My husband and I are like hermits. We only keep our friendship to ourselves. We are scared because other gays may try to split us up. And even other couples could be issues too. This society is really falling apart. Not just gay society, but the whole country. Plus, I'm more Republican/conservative so I don't relate to other gays. My husband is liberal/in between both sides. We don't talk politics because we sometimes don't agree. But we still get along. 14 years going strong. So we are doing at least something right. He can understand me and I can understand him and we really work things out. If he were complete Democrat, I don't think we would be able to deal with each other. Just sayin...
It sounds like you and your husband have a strong relationship, and that's something to celebrate. It's great that you can communicate and work through your differences, even when it comes to politics.❤ Regarding having gay friends, remember that not all gay people are the same. You might find some friends who share your values and interests. It's worth trying to put yourself out there and see what happens.💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I agree with you on that. Friends would be nice. Do you recommend a place to start? I was thinking there could be a group to go hiking or site-seeing with. Not sure where those groups would be found though.
As a bisexual man, I have a past. I was married with children when I was younger. When I entered into a rel'p with a man, I had to quit singing in the church choir. I joined a gay men's chorus group and was the only member who had children. I felt like an outsider. None of the other members were outgoing to me and I eventually left the group.
It's understandable that you felt like an outsider in the gay men's chorus group. Everyone's experiences are unique, and it can be difficult to connect with others who may have different backgrounds or perspectives. It's great that you found a community that supported you, even if it didn't last. Remember, your worth isn't defined by your past or your relationships.❤
Me too. Not the church choir. I left that long ago. But bi- and married with kids means back in the closet which takes a toll after a while. And, you can make it work for a while, a long while, but in the end, I feel that no one really trusts you if you own up. It's like, "Well, fish or cut bait, you're not allowed to do that. You gotta choose." Bi people have a place in LBGTQ+ but really, is it any more than a place in the acromym?
That's understandable. It can be scary to be open, but it's also rewarding. We hope you find the recognition and connection you're looking for with other gay men.😍
‘gay’ is a word i’ll just never seemingly get over 🙄🙄🙄 it scares me to death 🥶 i can’t cope with all the hatred i suffered in high school it was an all boys’ school 🤮🤮🤮 even though i’m a girl!!!
Whenever i hear stories like this i'm happy to hear you be so open but honestly get really jealous. I've always been seen as a typical straight guy. And had a very heteronormative/homophobic and masculine environment growing up.. I wish a lot of times that i did get to have those early age first experiences that you are mentioning. Because i did have the strong desire for it ever since i was around 13. However there was nobody that i could connect/experiment with in that way (believe me i tried) Which led to me further internalizing it and having a lot of girlfriends. Only when i was 24 i had my first experience with a guy and it also led to me going for what i really wanted to do and be more confident. I just wish that it happened sooner because when i look back at all the drugs i took and the wrong choices i made (education) also came from a internalized fear of feeling that i couldn't do/have what i really wanted, which sterned from the homophobia. Now 30 years old i am happy with all the progress i made but it does pain me that i'm unable to connect in a friendly way with other gay men, because they all seem so much more feminine and to me that is something that was perceived as negative growing up. What also happens is gay men tend to objectify me. I do work out and consider it important to look after my health but it leads me to believe that they are only out there to have sex with me. I am okay with being gay myself and other men having a different background. But, them discovering and accepting themself a lot sooner then i have is probably why i am having a really hard time connecting with these other gay men. My upbringing seems like a such a longer road. It makes it hard for me to relate to them. That's why this channel feels like a breath of fresh air to me. I believe just hearing more about how someone grows up gay and deals with their hardships, can really lead to deeper understanding and better connections amongst ourselves and within ourselves.
Thank you for sharing your story-it really highlights the unique challenges many of us face on our journey to self-acceptance. It’s understandable to feel that sense of longing for those earlier experiences and connection, especially when your environment made it so difficult. It’s great to hear that you’re more confident now and that you’ve made progress, but we also get how frustrating it can be to feel disconnected from others in the community. It’s okay to have mixed feelings about how you relate to other gay men, and it’s important to remember that everyone’s path is different. The fact that you’re reflecting on your experiences and seeking deeper connections shows how much growth you’ve had. This space is all about learning from each other and finding those common threads that can bring us closer, so we're really glad you’re here.🥰🏳🌈
i hope you know how much you help me and everyone who listens. it is my life's work, so it often seems, to overcome shame and rejection. it takes a lot of courage to walk a spiritual path as a monk. i get shame from inside and outside of the buddhist community. this issue is still obviously one of the weak spots in my life. thank you for sharing. 🪷❤
Your courage and dedication to your spiritual path are truly inspiring. It's wonderful to hear that our content provides support and encouragement. Remember, overcoming shame and rejection is a journey, and it takes time. You're not alone, and your persistence is admirable. Keep up the great work!🥰(Sending virtual hugs)
In my case I faced a lot of rejection coming from a Catholic background my family are generally not ok about it. I am more on the outside like a heterosexual guy and describe myself as bisexual. I was outed by my ex partner when I was 30 and let's just say that truly turned my life upside down. I had other issues on top of that but my partners have generally been unkind to me regardless how hard I tried. I had maybe 8 long term relationships in total with guys but they were mostly all quite hostile. I carried a great element of shame for years and could never move on from this. I even experienced discrimination at work multiple times and that very much knocked my confidence. Living in the UK there are systems in place to protect people like us but I personally feel that doesn't do much good. I once thought that being part of the LGBT community would give me a sense of belonging but in the UK I experienced a lot of rejection in gay venues and while attempting to date. Every time someone sees my photo the response I get is you're not my type or I just get blocked. This has gone on for some time now and I genuinely feel like I don't have any confidence now. I've been single for 7 years now. As much as I would like an authentic relationship my previous ones started and ended within the space of two years on average. I know other people also go through similar but for me I take this sort of thing very hard and it's almost impossible to move on. I would be keen to share my story if you guys are interested
Thank you for sharing your story so openly. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot of pain, rejection, and struggle, and it’s completely understandable that it’s taken a toll on your confidence. The isolation and challenges you’ve faced, both in relationships and within the LGBT community, must feel deeply disheartening. I want you to know that your experience matters, and your voice is important. If you ever feel ready to share more, we’d be honored to listen. 🥰
Thank you guys for bringing up such a topic For me the biggest thing now is having kids. I live in a country where being queer is almost illegal. I’m not even sure if adoption is an option, cos they might revoke guardianship if find out. Ofc I can leave the country, but I’d love not to
That's a really difficult situation. It's inspiring to hear that you're not giving up on your dream of having a family, even in the face of such challenges. We hope things improve for you soon. 🙏
homophobia is everywhere & it makes me sick!!! i can’t even find the time to commit to tackling it because i get so insecure that what’s the point because i’m not even gay although i still want to be an ally just as any moral decent human being should be!!!
Thank you for your support and for caring so much-it really does mean a lot. Homophobia can be exhausting to witness and face, and it’s understandable to feel frustrated or insecure about how to tackle it. You don’t have to be gay to make a difference; being an ally is about standing up for others and creating spaces where everyone can feel safe and accepted. Your voice matters, and just by wanting to help, you're already making an impact. Don’t let doubt hold you back-every bit of support counts, and you're definitely part of the change! 💜
I’d love to address the email I received before the podcast. I’ll write out my answers to your questions. Please let me know what you think 😊. Thanks bros! Love your channel!❤
That's great! We're looking forward to hearing your answers to the questions. Please feel free to share them whenever you're ready. Thanks for being a part of our community! 🏳🌈💕
We hear you-it can definitely be challenging to find someone who values commitment and monogamy in the same way. It takes time, but we believe there are people out there who want that too. Don’t give up on finding the connection you're looking for!🤩
i wish i was a gay man just so i could deal with the hatred on a daily basis & drudge through my high school trauma :( it’s hard being a trans woman :( i feel like i can’t move on to my true self because all my trauma was anchored on to the word ‘gay’ & then “knived” in2 me on a daily basis in high school & society/family etc 🙄🙄🙄 i wish i was just gay just so i can home myself in it & live in it until i’ve completely dealt with all the trauma!!! but because i’m trans i have to get my own identity together (seemingly from death) - ughhhh
Thank you so much for sharing such a vulnerable part of your experience. It sounds like you’re carrying so much pain from the way others have treated you, and that weight is incredibly difficult to bear. We hear you on how isolating it can feel, especially when it feels like society pushes labels and trauma onto us. Your journey as a trans woman is uniquely yours, but you shouldn’t have to face it alone or feel like you need to "fix" yourself to move forward. Healing from trauma, no matter the source, is so hard, but you deserve all the support, love, and space to find peace in your identity. Please be kind to yourself through this-it’s not easy, but you are worthy of becoming the truest version of you. Sending you so much strength and solidarity 💙
Hmm to define as being GAY is that TOTALLY who you are as a human being? Me no.....by labeling tends to limit your whole perspective as who you are I say! Of course yea GAY SEX YAH DAH YAH DAH N DA DRAMA behind it as you get older..BLAH...
That's an interesting perspective. Being gay is certainly a part of who someone is, but it doesn't define them entirely. Everyone is a complex individual with unique experiences and interests. 🙂
my other issue with gay men is that they’re so attractive!!! & i’m a straight trans girl 😔😔😔 it’s so difficult to let go of such a beautiful awesome creative & fun community!!!
Define normal….. gay men and women have been around since the dawn of human existence. Generally the prejudices come from religious beliefs/dogma which is why people are leaving the church in droves.
@@musicdirector8661Thief /lies/ murder has been around since the beginning of time / that do not make it right/ nature will tell you you ass is not a vergina/ it is a exit for shit/ not an entrance for the penis/ do not pervert r mis use you bottom/ organ/ it was design for a purpose/ how did u come into the world/ woman was made for man/ not a man for a man / that is natural/ like charges repel each other/ sex is between woman and man Not two men / penis and vergina is sex not / penis and ass hole/ that is a perversion/
@@musicdirector8661people leave the church because they do not want to adhere to biblical teaching they do not want any on the tell them how to live their lives / they make they own rules/ they do not understand they way leads to a destructive life/ all of our lives have negative and positive/ not because thing exist long ago /that makes it correct/ murder/ theft/ is an example/ as I said sex is man woman/ the parts fits/ you ass is not a vergina/ it was not design as a n entrance for the penis/
Please think/ in the same way /murder / stealing /lying was around for ages/ but this do not make it the correct thing to do/ People are leaving the church becaus thy do not want to live up to bibical teachings and standards/ they do what is righr for thenselves reguardless of laws and standards. This is a me culture,
@@musicdirector8661 not because Gay men was around since dawn/ that make it wright / thief was also / dos that make it wright/ it is not a relegious thing / a biological thing/ sex is between penis and vergina not penis and botton ass hole / neiher two vergina/ your botton ass hole is an exit for shit not an entrance for another man penis / the entrance for a man penis is a woman vergina / that is normal/
Thank you guys for this!
You guys do help restore the light. Thank you.
We're so glad to hear that we're making a positive impact. It's our goal to spread light and support within the community. Thank you for sharing your appreciation.😍
Extremely valuable and hard-to-find content. I feel that gay men are highly devalued and dismissed in society. Most people don't really care about our struggles. We need to love and care for each other, even if (or because) society doesn't care about us and views us negatively. Your channel helps accomplish this important task, and we need the value that you provide specifically to gay men. Please keep it up!
Thank you for your kind words. It's important to remember that we have a community that cares about us, even if society doesn't always. Your support means a lot. We'll continue to do our best to provide valuable content for gay men.🥰
amen you hit the nail on the head!!!
@@GayMenGoingDeeper i’ve always wanted a channel like this… gay/queer men shouldn’t all be about partying… there’s so much trauma!!!
@@dragonshreya26 Thank you for sharing! There’s so much more to gay/queer men’s experiences than what’s often portrayed, and the trauma is real. We're glad this channel resonates with you-healing and community matter. We’re in this together! 🌈
It’s refreshing to hear three gay men talk so honestly and with such vulnerability about their struggles and the challenges they face, even if they are trained therapists. It takes so much courage to confront our deepest insecurities that most gay men would unfortunately not be searching for content like this, let alone present to therapy. This is reflected in just 4.3k views in 8 days when it deserves 430k at least.
Agreed. Had no idea this existed, already sent it to someone who will need it. Deserves to become more well known. I’m British, from an older generation, introspection was not encouraged, fighting battles for acceptance in the 80s and 90s, great to see a more nuanced and perceptive approach now ❤
Thank you so much for your kind words and for recognizing the vulnerability we bring to this conversation. It's true, we face the same struggles and challenges that many in the community experience. It takes a lot of courage to confront our insecurities, and we're grateful that our content resonates with you. We hope that by creating a space for these open and honest discussions, more people will feel empowered to explore their own journeys. Your support means a lot to us, and we appreciate you for taking the time to engage and share this message.🥰
Building platonic relationships and intimacy between gay men can indeed be challenging, as sexual feelings can naturally arise between gay men. But I like the idea.
That's a great point. It can be difficult to maintain platonic relationships when there's a natural attraction between two men. However, it's definitely possible to build strong and supportive friendships without crossing boundaries. It's about respecting each other's feelings and communicating openly.😍
exactly the sex just takes over all the time!!! 😍
This is the video I needed before the seven week course with you Michael. I was nervous, still am, but I am emboldened to work through sexual stuff and relationships. And to have the strength to be honest while sharing!
My biggest difficulty right now is platonic relationships in the gay community. I am that alone person in the gay community. I have trauma around sex, and our community always leaning towards that has me shutting down any connections.
Glad the video helped! It's okay to feel nervous. Your courage is admirable. Platonic relationships can be tough. Take it slow and prioritize your comfort.🥰
Im an older gen x'er. The only challenges I've had was from physical, emotional, verbal; abuse from fearful / hateful straight people, and the era of premedication hiv days. Aside from the ptsd from those, I feel I've been pretty successful and normal/ average on most levels. I have a career and m/m spouse of over 20 yrs. Creating a family of choice and learning to let go were keys to being happy for me.
It's inspiring to hear about your resilience and how you've overcome the challenges you've faced. Your ability to create a loving and supportive family of choice is truly commendable. It's great to know that you've found happiness and success despite the obstacles you've encountered.🥰🥳
it’s absolutely despicable!!! i can’t believe how many people forget about our gay/trans ancestors!!! you can’t move forward if you don’t address their wounds!!!
Thank you for this video, I can relate to some of these issues as well. It's not easy, there is fear, rejection and ridicule (even made as fun/joke). I held back in announcing that I was homosexual, but I don't advertise it but I think people close to me knew/speculated. If they approach me and ask then I would say so, but if they don't I do not bring it out, again it's context. For example, at work I do not divulge in conversations around sexual orientation, because it is not the right context and can be viewed as "inappropriate.' It's a struggle, I have very few straight men friends, aside from the guys I went to school or childhood friends. I seem to notice that when I'm around straight men as acquaintances or friends of friends, there seem to be a disconnect or avoidance in conversations and seem to not get too close or involved in you to strike up a possible friendship, if that makes sense. I also had a homophobic roommate once and that was difficult as well and at that time in college, he would make snide/offensive remarks about how gays in the military and in high positions "screwing" things up, also how I carried myself as not being "masculine." That was a long time ago, but from that experience I felt like I had to be "straight" because it's not accepted and tried to change myself and conform to society's expectations.
In addition, it feels like I'm an outsider and alone at times, and it is sad to say that some men in the gay community only hang around/associate only to "attractive" people and do not have the full support to associate with other that may not have that same level of "attractiveness," or getting to know that person's personality and interested - it's very superficial. I get it that we do gravitate to the adonis of men with the muscles and abs, but I wished that it wasn't all about that and just be more supportive in that sense and be open to others that do not fit that mold.
But, this podcast here is very helpful and I'm grateful for you guys in creating this forum to talk about issues and struggles, and providing advice and solutions. So, thank you :)
It's great to hear that you're finding support and connection through this podcast. Your experiences are valid, and it's understandable that you've faced challenges. Remember, you're not alone. Many people in the LGBTQ+ community have similar experiences. It's important to surround yourself with people who accept and support you, regardless of their sexual orientation. Keep seeking out positive connections and remember your worth.
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When everything you feel inside does not agree with how you are expected to feel, told to feel, and see other kids feeling, it leaves you with a sense of not belonging, and not knowing what to do to blend in with the world around you.
Thank you for expressing this so clearly. It’s such a difficult experience to feel out of sync with the expectations around you, especially when everyone else seems to fit in so naturally. That sense of not belonging can be really isolating, and it takes a lot of strength to navigate those feelings.❤
One of the biggest challenges for me is all the overthinking. Am I straight-passing enough to hang out in this place without fearing judgement or fearing for my safety? Am I gay enough to hang out in this place without feeling like a square / like I'm too boring? I'm the youngest of 4, with 2 of those older siblings being brothers and for a long time I could mask more easily by copying what they did - playing football, learning guitar - but it's so annoying to my own brain that I associate those things with being a straight man. All the questioning and doubting is very loud in my head and makes it hard to relax unless I am completely alone.
Thank you so much for sharing this. The constant overthinking and pressure to fit into different spaces is so relatable. It's okay to take things at your own pace to find what feels genuinely right for you.😍
Would've been interesting to see you guys bounce off each other more, give feedback on experiences, relate to some, etc. Felt like each of you were pretty self-contained and just waiting for your turn to speak. It didn't make the convo feel very dynamic. Just my perspective as a first-time viewer. Great topic though 🫡
Thanks for your feedback! We appreciate you watching. We'll definitely try to make the conversations more interactive in the future. Your perspective is valuable, and we'll keep it in mind for our next episodes.🙂
I grew up in a small town and went to a catholic boys school which was awful; being bullied, physically abused and could not talk to anyone about that. I thought going to a large city to work I would meet people like me and feel more comfortable, however my experience of other gay men was not very positive and I met some of the most vile, vulgar, hedonistic, egocentric people and decided that it was best to just stick with the straight friends I had as they were more supportive. Now in my 50's I have missed out on any opportunity to have gay friends and the fear of trying again is too great.
It's understandable that you've had negative experiences with the gay community after going through such a difficult time growing up. Your experiences with bullying and abuse are traumatic, and it's completely normal to feel hesitant about trying again.
Remember, not all members of the LGBTQ+ community are the same. There are many kind, supportive, and genuine people out there. It might take some time, but you'll eventually find a community that makes you feel accepted and comfortable.😍
@@GayMenGoingDeeper LOL It doesn't work like that when you're over 50 and 60. It's too late to find any new friends let alone gay ones. particularly if you live in the country.
@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax That's a common misconception. While it might be harder, it's definitely not impossible to make new friends, even as an older adult.
You may consider joining our Facebook group here: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
Faisal was the name of my bully :( he tortured me :(
Insecure attachment styles in the gay community are very prevalent. It's hard to even make friends let alone find a long term relationship.
That's a great point. Insecure attachment styles can definitely make it difficult to form healthy relationships, both platonic and romantic. It's important to be aware of your own attachment style and to work on building healthier relationships. Remember, healing from past hurt takes time, but it's possible to develop secure attachment styles.🙂
Well, the first thing we are showing here are biceps. That isn’t exactly the first thing you notice about Einstein in images of him.
Indeed, as a gay senior man, age 65, who came out in 1974, that’s what I have observed and lived with gay men. The surface, the physical, the superficial, the shallow. GQ and Hollywood. Looks and money. We might do well to get beyond that and act like human beings for once.
That being said, I’m very happy to see this group happening.
Thank you for sharing your perspective and experiences. We appreciate your honesty and the wisdom that comes from your journey. It’s true that the focus on the physical can sometimes overshadow deeper connections, but it's heartening to know that we can create spaces like this where we can explore beyond the surface and build more meaningful connections. We're glad you're here and happy to have your voice in the conversation.🥰
Excellent - Thank you for this conversation - It is very much appreciated.
As someone who has only recently discovered their sexuality it has been hard. I am currently in a community that is not accepting, meaning my family and the general society isn’t. Luckily I have a few friends who are, but the tricky thing is some of them who are accepting are attracted to me and it makes it more complicated to open up. As someone who has only dated and been with women, finding out you might be dealing with comphet has been devastating. I wake up on some days and I hate myself, hate the person that seems to be inside me that wants to come out, hate that he is going to make my life so much harder, hate the fact that the he might be a she, hate the fact that they might want to bottom and what that says about me. It’s really been hard, I don’t know how to move on. But I am glad I found this channel, it makes me feel less alone
Thank you for sharing what you’re going through-it sounds incredibly tough, and we can only imagine how confusing and painful it must be to navigate all of these feelings, especially in an unaccepting environment. It’s okay to feel conflicted and uncertain right now; this journey is different for everyone, and it’s perfectly normal to have days where it feels overwhelming.
We're really glad you’ve found some support here and that the channel helps you feel less alone. Remember, it’s okay to take things one step at a time and be kind to yourself as you figure out who you are. You don’t have to have all the answers right now. Sending virtual hugs!💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I never thought I would get a reply, especially on the sane day. Thank you so much for that, thank you for taking the community you are trying to build very seriously. You guys are one of the light houses in this confusing world.
@@Stevenxy-xc2vx Thank you so much for your kind words. It means a lot to hear that our efforts are making a difference. We're committed to being here for the community, and we're really glad the response reached you when you needed it. Your support keeps us going, and it's a reminder of why we do what we do. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us-we’re all navigating this confusing world together, and we're grateful we can be a lighthouse for each other.🥰🤗
The contrast between the empathy and compassion shown in these comments and the 90% of anger and misery expressed on YT comments is remarkable. Keep up the good work ❤
@@davidr7819 Thank you for noticing that! It means a lot to us that this space feels different and more compassionate. We’re grateful for this community and will definitely keep striving to keep the positivity going. Your support is appreciated!
I think my big challenge is loneliness. I live in a rural area in the Sierra Nevadas and don't have gay people around to connect with. I love living in the mountains and have never been a city person. The way I deal with the loneliness is to stay busy taking care of my animals as a distraction and receive unconditional love.
Thank you for sharing that. It’s really tough to feel isolated, especially when you’re living in such a beautiful but remote place. The peace of the mountains is amazing, but I completely understand how the lack of a nearby community can feel lonely at times. It sounds like your animals provide a lot of comfort and love, which is so important. They really have a way of filling up some of those empty spaces, don’t they?
It’s great that you’ve found ways to cope, but if you ever feel like you need more connection, even if it’s virtual, there are communities online where you can find support and friendship. Sometimes just knowing there are others out there who understand what you’re going through can make all the difference. Thank you again for opening up-it means a lot.
You may consider joining our Facebook Group, here's the link: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
@@GayMenGoingDeeper Thank you for your kind words and wisdom. ❤
@@rowanwhite3520 You're welcome. Happy to help!🥰
Omg Reno, Barbie dolls, Beauty and the Beast, girl friends… it’s like looking into a mirror… except for a supporting role in my childhood. Of course it’s not our parents fault, they were only trying to protect us, and they just were part of an ignorant generation, it wasn’t completely their fault.
It was so hard for me to hide it, I was such a feminine child, and I know I was different ever since I can remember. I have always been also very sexual like Matt, since I was extremely young, curious and easily aroused (still am haha).
So of course hiding it was a nightmare for years. But now, Like Michael, I’m having the time of my life, enjoying all the gayness in my glitter coated soul!
Thanks guys, xoxo
Omg, you're twins! Barbie dolls, Beauty and the Beast, girl friends... it's like you've lived the same life. Except you had the added bonus of being a super-sexual child. We're all just here trying to survive and thrive in this crazy world, one glitter-coated step at a time. Thanks for sharing your story!😍😉
I have watched several of your great videos and I am amazed that you mention having low self esteem, except Reno, albeit a lot less than previously. None of you guys come across as having self esteem issues, I see strong, confident gay men!
Interesting point that Michael brings up about the life continuum between the time one learns he/she is gay and when they say "I'm happy I'm gay." Perhaps not everyone is destined to be happy they are gay. In my case, I feel my destination point is more of a mission-oriented one, in terms of accomplishing my purpose I've been given by a Higher Power. For example, my artistic expression, whether it be through music or gardening or whatever. And I'm okay with that. I don't necessarily need to feel happy to be gay but can be fulfilled in other areas. Also, as Matt mentions, I inherently crave platonic connection with other men, rather than a sexual one. I guess this stems from my emotional attachment style.
Thank you for sharing your unique perspective. It's powerful to recognize that fulfillment can come in many forms, and it's okay if your journey as a gay man is more mission-oriented rather than centered on finding happiness in your identity. Your focus on artistic expression and platonic connections is a beautiful way of living out your purpose, and it's important to honor what feels authentic to you. Everyone’s path is different, and it's great that you've found what brings you meaning and contentment.💕
The anxiety in the company of straight men I can relate to (31:40). Unaware they were talking to a gay man, being very homophobic.
Thank you for sharing. That anxiety is something many of us can relate to, and it’s tough being in those situations. It’s important to acknowledge how difficult it can be when people aren’t aware of the impact of their words. We appreciate you being part of this conversation!❤💖
Having gay friends is my struggle. My husband and I are like hermits. We only keep our friendship to ourselves. We are scared because other gays may try to split us up. And even other couples could be issues too. This society is really falling apart. Not just gay society, but the whole country. Plus, I'm more Republican/conservative so I don't relate to other gays. My husband is liberal/in between both sides. We don't talk politics because we sometimes don't agree. But we still get along. 14 years going strong. So we are doing at least something right. He can understand me and I can understand him and we really work things out. If he were complete Democrat, I don't think we would be able to deal with each other. Just sayin...
It sounds like you and your husband have a strong relationship, and that's something to celebrate. It's great that you can communicate and work through your differences, even when it comes to politics.❤
Regarding having gay friends, remember that not all gay people are the same. You might find some friends who share your values and interests. It's worth trying to put yourself out there and see what happens.💕
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I agree with you on that. Friends would be nice. Do you recommend a place to start? I was thinking there could be a group to go hiking or site-seeing with. Not sure where those groups would be found though.
@@HankMcCoy888 Yes, of course!🥰 You may consider joining our Facebook group here: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood
As a bisexual man, I have a past. I was married with children when I was younger. When I entered into a rel'p with a man, I had to quit singing in the church choir. I joined a gay men's chorus group and was the only member who had children. I felt like an outsider. None of the other members were outgoing to me and I eventually left the group.
It's understandable that you felt like an outsider in the gay men's chorus group. Everyone's experiences are unique, and it can be difficult to connect with others who may have different backgrounds or perspectives. It's great that you found a community that supported you, even if it didn't last. Remember, your worth isn't defined by your past or your relationships.❤
@@GayMenGoingDeeper Thank you
@@htarceno You're very much welcome!❤
Me too. Not the church choir. I left that long ago. But bi- and married with kids means back in the closet which takes a toll after a while. And, you can make it work for a while, a long while, but in the end, I feel that no one really trusts you if you own up. It's like, "Well, fish or cut bait, you're not allowed to do that. You gotta choose." Bi people have a place in LBGTQ+ but really, is it any more than a place in the acromym?
I was very open in my reaction and possible it will not be placed. I feel a lot of recognition and would like to find that with other gay men too.
That's understandable. It can be scary to be open, but it's also rewarding. We hope you find the recognition and connection you're looking for with other gay men.😍
‘gay’ is a word i’ll just never seemingly get over 🙄🙄🙄 it scares me to death 🥶 i can’t cope with all the hatred i suffered in high school it was an all boys’ school 🤮🤮🤮 even though i’m a girl!!!
Whenever i hear stories like this i'm happy to hear you be so open but honestly get really jealous. I've always been seen as a typical straight guy. And had a very heteronormative/homophobic and masculine environment growing up.. I wish a lot of times that i did get to have those early age first experiences that you are mentioning. Because i did have the strong desire for it ever since i was around 13. However there was nobody that i could connect/experiment with in that way (believe me i tried) Which led to me further internalizing it and having a lot of girlfriends.
Only when i was 24 i had my first experience with a guy and it also led to me going for what i really wanted to do and be more confident. I just wish that it happened sooner because when i look back at all the drugs i took and the wrong choices i made (education) also came from a internalized fear of feeling that i couldn't do/have what i really wanted, which sterned from the homophobia.
Now 30 years old i am happy with all the progress i made but it does pain me that i'm unable to connect in a friendly way with other gay men, because they all seem so much more feminine and to me that is something that was perceived as negative growing up. What also happens is gay men tend to objectify me. I do work out and consider it important to look after my health but it leads me to believe that they are only out there to have sex with me.
I am okay with being gay myself and other men having a different background. But, them discovering and accepting themself a lot sooner then i have is probably why i am having a really hard time connecting with these other gay men. My upbringing seems like a such a longer road. It makes it hard for me to relate to them. That's why this channel feels like a breath of fresh air to me. I believe just hearing more about how someone grows up gay and deals with their hardships, can really lead to deeper understanding and better connections amongst ourselves and within ourselves.
Thank you for sharing your story-it really highlights the unique challenges many of us face on our journey to self-acceptance. It’s understandable to feel that sense of longing for those earlier experiences and connection, especially when your environment made it so difficult. It’s great to hear that you’re more confident now and that you’ve made progress, but we also get how frustrating it can be to feel disconnected from others in the community.
It’s okay to have mixed feelings about how you relate to other gay men, and it’s important to remember that everyone’s path is different. The fact that you’re reflecting on your experiences and seeking deeper connections shows how much growth you’ve had. This space is all about learning from each other and finding those common threads that can bring us closer, so we're really glad you’re here.🥰🏳🌈
i hope you know how much you help me and everyone who listens. it is my life's work, so it often seems, to overcome shame and rejection. it takes a lot of courage to walk a spiritual path as a monk. i get shame from inside and outside of the buddhist community. this issue is still obviously one of the weak spots in my life. thank you for sharing. 🪷❤
Your courage and dedication to your spiritual path are truly inspiring. It's wonderful to hear that our content provides support and encouragement. Remember, overcoming shame and rejection is a journey, and it takes time. You're not alone, and your persistence is admirable. Keep up the great work!🥰(Sending virtual hugs)
In my case I faced a lot of rejection coming from a Catholic background my family are generally not ok about it. I am more on the outside like a heterosexual guy and describe myself as bisexual. I was outed by my ex partner when I was 30 and let's just say that truly turned my life upside down. I had other issues on top of that but my partners have generally been unkind to me regardless how hard I tried. I had maybe 8 long term relationships in total with guys but they were mostly all quite hostile. I carried a great element of shame for years and could never move on from this. I even experienced discrimination at work multiple times and that very much knocked my confidence. Living in the UK there are systems in place to protect people like us but I personally feel that doesn't do much good.
I once thought that being part of the LGBT community would give me a sense of belonging but in the UK I experienced a lot of rejection in gay venues and while attempting to date. Every time someone sees my photo the response I get is you're not my type or I just get blocked. This has gone on for some time now and I genuinely feel like I don't have any confidence now. I've been single for 7 years now. As much as I would like an authentic relationship my previous ones started and ended within the space of two years on average. I know other people also go through similar but for me I take this sort of thing very hard and it's almost impossible to move on.
I would be keen to share my story if you guys are interested
Thank you for sharing your story so openly. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot of pain, rejection, and struggle, and it’s completely understandable that it’s taken a toll on your confidence. The isolation and challenges you’ve faced, both in relationships and within the LGBT community, must feel deeply disheartening. I want you to know that your experience matters, and your voice is important. If you ever feel ready to share more, we’d be honored to listen. 🥰
Thank you
Thank you for your support!😍
Thank you guys for bringing up such a topic
For me the biggest thing now is having kids. I live in a country where being queer is almost illegal. I’m not even sure if adoption is an option, cos they might revoke guardianship if find out. Ofc I can leave the country, but I’d love not to
That's a really difficult situation. It's inspiring to hear that you're not giving up on your dream of having a family, even in the face of such challenges. We hope things improve for you soon.
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homophobia is everywhere & it makes me sick!!! i can’t even find the time to commit to tackling it because i get so insecure that what’s the point because i’m not even gay although i still want to be an ally just as any moral decent human being should be!!!
Thank you for your support and for caring so much-it really does mean a lot. Homophobia can be exhausting to witness and face, and it’s understandable to feel frustrated or insecure about how to tackle it. You don’t have to be gay to make a difference; being an ally is about standing up for others and creating spaces where everyone can feel safe and accepted. Your voice matters, and just by wanting to help, you're already making an impact. Don’t let doubt hold you back-every bit of support counts, and you're definitely part of the change! 💜
I’d love to address the email I received before the podcast. I’ll write out my answers to your questions. Please let me know what you think 😊. Thanks bros! Love your channel!❤
That's great! We're looking forward to hearing your answers to the questions. Please feel free to share them whenever you're ready. Thanks for being a part of our community!
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Challenge-finding a man who’s worthy of a committed monogamous relationship or even wants one.
We hear you-it can definitely be challenging to find someone who values commitment and monogamy in the same way. It takes time, but we believe there are people out there who want that too. Don’t give up on finding the connection you're looking for!🤩
i wish i was a gay man just so i could deal with the hatred on a daily basis & drudge through my high school trauma :( it’s hard being a trans woman :( i feel like i can’t move on to my true self because all my trauma was anchored on to the word ‘gay’ & then “knived” in2 me on a daily basis in high school & society/family etc 🙄🙄🙄 i wish i was just gay just so i can home myself in it & live in it until i’ve completely dealt with all the trauma!!! but because i’m trans i have to get my own identity together (seemingly from death) - ughhhh
Thank you so much for sharing such a vulnerable part of your experience. It sounds like you’re carrying so much pain from the way others have treated you, and that weight is incredibly difficult to bear. We hear you on how isolating it can feel, especially when it feels like society pushes labels and trauma onto us. Your journey as a trans woman is uniquely yours, but you shouldn’t have to face it alone or feel like you need to "fix" yourself to move forward. Healing from trauma, no matter the source, is so hard, but you deserve all the support, love, and space to find peace in your identity. Please be kind to yourself through this-it’s not easy, but you are worthy of becoming the truest version of you. Sending you so much strength and solidarity 💙
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Hmm to define as being GAY is that TOTALLY who you are as a human being? Me no.....by labeling tends to limit your whole perspective as who you are I say! Of course yea GAY SEX YAH DAH YAH DAH N DA DRAMA behind it as you get older..BLAH...
That's an interesting perspective. Being gay is certainly a part of who someone is, but it doesn't define them entirely. Everyone is a complex individual with unique experiences and interests.
🙂
my other issue with gay men is that they’re so attractive!!! & i’m a straight trans girl 😔😔😔 it’s so difficult to let go of such a beautiful awesome creative & fun community!!!
Boring
Could you elaborate on what made the episode boring for you? Knowing your specific thoughts can help us understand where we can improve. Thank you!🙂
Normal is not homosexual/ we all can as a result of a heterosexual relationship this is normal / woman was made for man not man for man
Define normal….. gay men and women have been around since the dawn of human existence. Generally the prejudices come from religious beliefs/dogma which is why people are leaving the church in droves.
@@musicdirector8661Thief /lies/ murder has been around since the beginning of time / that do not make it right/ nature will tell you you ass is not a vergina/ it is a exit for shit/ not an entrance for the penis/ do not pervert r mis use you bottom/ organ/ it was design for a purpose/ how did u come into the world/ woman was made for man/ not a man for a man / that is natural/ like charges repel each other/ sex is between woman and man Not two men / penis and vergina is sex not / penis and ass hole/ that is a perversion/
@@musicdirector8661people leave the church because they do not want to adhere to biblical teaching they do not want any on the tell them how to live their lives / they make they own rules/ they do not understand they way leads to a destructive life/ all of our lives have negative and positive/ not because thing exist long ago /that makes it correct/ murder/ theft/ is an example/ as I said sex is man woman/ the parts fits/ you ass is not a vergina/ it was not design as a n entrance for the penis/
Please think/ in the same way /murder / stealing /lying was around for ages/ but this do not make it the correct thing to do/ People are leaving the church becaus thy do not want to live up to bibical teachings and standards/ they do what is righr for thenselves reguardless of laws and standards. This is a me culture,
@@musicdirector8661 not because Gay men was around since dawn/ that make it wright / thief was also / dos that make it wright/ it is not a relegious thing / a biological thing/ sex is between penis and vergina not penis and botton ass hole / neiher two vergina/ your botton ass hole is an exit for shit not an entrance for another man penis / the entrance for a man penis is a woman vergina / that is normal/